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Full Version: 4-10: "Clip Show"/"Shaniagans" 2005.11.24
TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery
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Jacob
Due to the holiday, and the double episode, I'm going to have to be pretty hardcore about the Read The Thread rule this week. The thread's going to be long enough without a bunch of rehashing and finger-pointing.

Demonstrating that you haven't read the thread before posting will earn you a week off, unless you've already been warned for it, in which case you'll be banned.
MetropolisGal
Wow, that clip show proved that Markus was an even bigger doofus than I thought...

As for the new episode, "Shaniaghans", I really thought that Randal and Rebecca would get fired for taking the bullhorns. Maybe things are different in real estate, but claiming someone else's property in their name could get you SUED in some places. Makes me wonder if that Trump call about sueing someone was staged...

As for the boardroom, I was about to jump through the TV and strangle Trump if he fired Felisha. Because PLEASE! Adam spending $6000 on those stupid carriages was ridiculous. And Alla thinking it was a good idea? If I was Trump, I'd have fired both of them.
Neener46
Aww, sad to see Adam go...I totally love that Rebecca and Randall snagged all the bullhorns...The other team was stupid to not at least leave their name, it's their own fault...And, if they had used 1 less carriage, they could have gotten a way bigger street team...

Also, since they couldn't get the megaphones, shouldn't they have had more money for a bigger street team?
Benji
So why exactly was inept project manager Alla sent up to the Suite early? Grr, Trump.
Knick
From the show: "If I was Shania, seeing those carriages, I'd be embarrassed."

If I was Shania, I'd be embarrassed too. Rich, but embarrassed.
quaintirene
Can someone just put Bill Rancic out of his misery? Perhaps step up to the plate with fire in the belly and hit him out of the park? He's a walking dictionary of dumb cliches and he never ever has anything substantive to say. That last comment we heard from Mr Self-Satisfaction as Adam left the building made me want to kick in my tv screen.

And edited to add that I agree about the firing of Randall and Rebecca. They clearly misrepresented themselves to Radio Shack. I'd be concerned if they were working for me.

'Felisha will make a stronger partner for Alla than Adam would...' I've never heard Trump so solicitous. And here we all thought he had the hots for Rebecca!
Dekar
I didn't support what Randal and Rebecca did, but I didn't want Adam gone, so I guess it balances. In a very negative way.
Swell Baby
How was that loss not Alla's fault? I'm glad she wasn't fired, but Trump was full of it when he let her go to the suite for that reason. Just say you think she's better, for Ivana's sake.

ETA: I'm still missing the "wrap" part of this task. Sandwich boards != wrap. Hanging a hideous wrinkly thing on the back of a carriage != wrap. Anyone?
n00b
On the clip show: Damn, chill out about the oval/egg thing already, I hate when I have to agree with Toral. At least it highlighted some more Marshawn incompetence.

Well, Trump made the right call in the boardroom, shame that it sounds like at least Carolyn is still snowed by Rebecca. Least surprising moment was Carolyn getting her talons out against another blonde in the boardroom. Was good to see Adam still being a nice guy in the cab afterwards.

What was the deal with the carriages? The idea sounded lame even before I saw how horrible most of them looked. Didn't like Shania's posters to begin with -- the dark background made it really hard to see that last digit. I'm down with putting more money into the labor budget, too, but it's not like I'm impressed that the other team managed only 5 more calls with those 45 extra bodies.

Seeing Shania Twain wearing that stupid hat while eating dinner made me wish Al Capone was lurking behind her with a baseball bat.
yadayada
WTF? Why was Alla allowed to leave the BR tonight? Did I miss something cause I am sure Felisha pointed out quite clearly to Alla and Adam that she needed more labour and the fact that she can't get more is because of the budget being spent on carriages quite early on in the task.

Is it not the PM's decision then to decide where to spend cash? If Alla is all that great (and basing on the pink and white striped suit she wore to the results annoucement, I am quite sure she is not) why did she not alter the budget?

Now I am guessing Trump justs wants the ratings of having a former stripper in the final 2.

Nice move on Randal and Rebecca's part to get those megaphones before CE and good on Trump and Bill to agree when it was brought up in the BR by Alla.

I think my lack lustre feelings for Carolyn improved mightily tonight when she called out Felisha and Adam for being the two weakest players left.

ETA: and kudos to Rebecca for using Excel's workforce and their individual talents to strategically deploy people where they would connect with others from their community. I was embarrased when Felisha and Alla started to cull people because they were not clean cut enough or didn't speak EEEEEEngliiiiish (TM Alla) properly.
village
Sorry Capital Edge but I thought that bullhorn thing was hilarious - even if it was wrong. And the fact that Randal was doing everything but giggle at the fact that they were essentially taking the other teams toys was even funnier.

The fact that Excel won by five votes however does tell me that they didn’t sell as well or as hard as the other team, considering they had 45 more people than the other team. However I do think that might had something to do with putting people in less dense areas. I think Randal was correct when he said that they should have had more people in the more popular areas of Manhatten.

Alla didn’t impress me this time around. Why would she buy into the whole carriage idea over the people billboards? People sell. Horrible, creased posters on the back of carriages amidst traffic really doesn’t. Felicia was the only one thinking and I’m surprised she didn’t mention that she was the one to make sure that they even had the labour force.

And I was right about the final four. Call me proud.


That last comment we heard from Mr Self-Satisfaction as Adam left the building made me want to kick in my tv screen.[/quote]

My mother and I looked at each other with similar wtf? expressions on our faces when the VO came on. Bill? Shut up.
mtlchickie
I missed the recap eppy, but to me, a red flag went up when Adam suggested if they can wrap animals. Because Shania, onetime PETA's Sexiest Vegetarian, would have REALLY loved that. As for the bullhorns, was it dirty play? Yes. But I was laughing for 10 minutes.

Bye Adam. Enthusiam is good, but blowing 1/2 of the budget on horse carriages was a big mistake.
idledandy
So, who else thinks that boardroom was entirely predetermined? I think Trump decided in advance that Adam and Felisha were overall the two weakest (with which I agree) and that he’d be sending Alla up quickly so that she wouldn’t interfere with letting Felisha and Adam duke it out.

I agree with the decision, bottom line. Adam has been fine as a foot soldier, but I don’t think he has been as strong a leader as Felisha.

It’s a weird thing, though, because Alla does bear responsibility for focusing on the carriages, which indeed looked awful. However, that same PM-blaming thing could go for every task, and last season it did, and it got old fast.

I can’t say I loved the megaphone theft. Excel misrepresented themselves to Radio Shack. It was a toe over the line from sneaky to sleazy for me. I didn’t think Randal would conduct himself that way. It would be one thing to go in and negotiate with Radio Shack to give them the megaphones and pay more than Capital Edge, but instead they just lied. I don’t like it.

Reward? Awkward! It looked like they had nothing to talk about. It was like a blind date.
YoureSoUrban
I'm torn about the bullhorn incident. While the bullhorns were only "on hold", Randall & Rebecca presented themselves to the store as "colleagues" of the people who had called earlier. In my opinion that's a little misleading and put the store personnel in a bad position.

Those carriages were hideous. I wouldn't notice the 800 number message if I was on the streets.

Shania Twain seemed to me like she didn't want anything to do with this. She didn't even take off her hat at dinner. Weird.
lessa2010
Well, I am disheartened. Randall, Randall, Randall. It is not ethical or honorable to knowingly take something someone else worked to get. They made the calls, they obviously thought of it first so you suck it up. Trump deserves you if that is the type of work ethic they espouse.

Adam, $6000 on carraiges and you want to blame Felishia for not getting more people on $1500. Those were some cheap temps since the company takes a huge cut before paying out.

Marshawn, seems you love to jump in on presentations when you're sure you won't get fired.

No wonder Trump thought Markus could talk intelligently, on a tape no one knows it took you a thousand takes to get that one clear thought.

So annoyed after tonight. Randall so disappointed me. I expected better of you.
TheGeek
I do love that Randal and Rebecca hooked the bullhorns, but I can't believe how scared Randal looked while they were doing it. You would have thought they were shoplifting them.
charma
I thought both of their ideas could have used improvement. I also don't understand Carolyn's ire to pin this on Felisha. If the rest of the money was spent on carriages, where was she supposed to get money to pay extra help? From her pocket? From her bank account? Mommy and Daddy? Where?

The carriage could have worked if there had been a pretty young wholesome thing on top pimping for Shania but not the way they had. Trump seemed almost disappointed Excel won.
Binet
How fabulous did Randal look in that blue shirt?

It's interesting that Team Alla was making the calls for people. Using that strategy, I think they could have easily won with even a few more employees.
2ys4me
Alla's no dummy, and surprise, neither is Felisha.

That bathroom confab was hysterical, you could literally see the gears shifting in Alla's 5 speed mind: Adam, good boy, easy to keep in final four, will play ball.

Felisha, however showed she knew how to shift gears in a flash and that has Alla nervous.

I've been all over the map, but recently I've taken a real shine to Felisha... go girl, go.
Nutjob
The loss was totally Alla's fault. After all, she is the one who alotted the budget, not Adam or Felisha. And while I didn't necessarily love what Randal and Rebecca did RE: the megaphones, I also thought it was just as sketchy for Alla & Co. to allow people to use their Trump-provided cell phones to call the 800 number. I mean, to me, that was just one step up from Alla calling the number herself.


Can someone just put Bill Rancic out of his misery?[/quote]

I usually like Boyfriend Bill, but he was totally bugging this episode. I like Randal, too, but if either of them had said "step up" one more time, I was threatening to throw my television out the window.
deaja
Alla being sent up early was complete bull. The reason they couldn't hire more was because the project manager didn't budget for it. Not Adam's fault, not Felicia's. Not that she should have necessarily been fired for it, but at least not given a pass!!!!!
Loved the sabotage and how when they "told" on them, Bill and Trump were like "cool!!! That's awesome!"
highlander

That last comment we heard from Mr Self-Satisfaction as Adam left the building made me want to kick in my tv screen. [/quote]

Quaintirene, I missed the comment Bill made. I'm dying to know. What was it that he said?
LadyKenobi
AUGH. Allatine took whatever was coming out of the back of Shania-ho's horse and spread it all over the suite. GOD that was infuriating. She's obnoxious for skipping away from the blame, and Felisha and Adam are too stupid to know they were being divided and and conquered.

Karma, eh?
muchsarcasm

Maybe things are different in real estate, but claiming someone else's property in their name could get you SUED in some places. [/quote]
I agree, but I thought Capital Edge explained it very poorly. It made it sound like Excel happened upon the bullhorns and bought them (e.g. "Whatever they're paying you, I'll pay double.") and not an impersonation problem.

They were complaining that Adam and Co. didn't have big ideas. But the carraiges were a big idea. A stupid one, but a big one nonetheless.
ghettofabman
I missed the clip show myself, but I caught the last moments and boy did Randal and Rebecca get negative edits.

On to the show, I actually thought that Alla should have been fired. What the hell did she do? I honestly believe she let Adam and Felisha steamroll her decision making because her leadership was "sorely lacking" (tm Martha).

Randal really did take off his gloves this week. Now that is true grit and true ghetto. Dammit, I hereby lend him my screenname.

I still like him and Rebecca even after the MegaPhoneGate '05.
momo
What surprised me is that Trump and Bill actually commnended the megaphone "stealing" idea.

Now, if the firing was because of the Horse Carriage idea and Alla was project manager, and Alla approved it, and Alla set Felisha's budget to hire people... why was Alla simply sent to the suite and not made to face the music? I'm not sure she should have been fired, but at least she should have faced firing.




[Snip.]
illogic

Maybe things are different in real estate, but claiming someone else's property in their name could get you SUED in some places.[/quote]

The thing is, those bullhorns weren't the other team's property. They were Radio Shack's property. CapEdge put no money down, and, it seemed, didn't even give their names when reserving the things. They probably didn't expect R & R to have the same idea, but they're in a competition, and they should have taken better care to safeguard their plans.

I'm a newspaper reporter, and I have no problem trying to find out what my competition is up to so I can steal a scoop from them. It's been done to me (I've even had other reporters specifically ask people what I've been looking into) and it stings, but it's not unethical. I'll ask my sources if they've spoken to any other papers, and ask them to give me a heads up if they get a call from another reporter -- even when I don't expect anyone else to know the story's out there.

I kind of look at what R & R did in the same light. This is a competition, and we've seen far sneakier tricks pulled off legitimately in business rivalries.
crimsonjoe
Good episode....

The right person was fired. The carriages did take up the majority of the money, and that was Adam's idea.

That being said, I think this final five has been the strongest since season 1. None of them are slackers, or make me wonder 'How the hell did they last this long?' (See Ivana in season 2 or Craig in season 3). Felicia might be the weakest of the remaining four, but she has shown flashes of brilliance. And even though Adam's idea was the reason the team lost, isn't wasn't a completely braindead idea.

Losing by only five out of almost 1,000 calls is rough- especially since the megaphones would have probably made up the difference. I guess none of them wanted to sound like they were whining by pressing the issue.
quaintirene
Highlander he said something like 'Adam should have showed us that fire in the belly six weeks ago. It was too little too late.'

I'm sure it was edited in, and it made Bill sound like he was stealing Trump's thunder, because I think it's generally Trump that gets the last word.

Please talk about the preview! We don't get it in Canada.
Menolly
What a reward for Rebecca - let's put a woman with a broken ankle up on a horse. At least it seemed she had a little more control of her horse than Randall. I felt for him. I went on a trail horse ride this past summer and believe me horses can tell if you don't know what you're doing. I knew that they were going to win when they were able to get 60 people. Notice they didn't mind if they had Spanish speaking help- they just put them where they would be the most effective.
growsonwalls
And anyone else notice how while Rebecca and Randal seemed to be sipping champagne, Shania was drinking plain water? She seemed rather cool and indifferent, and it was interesting how neither Rebecca or Randal did a whole "Shania was amazing" thing.
Randal surprised me. I thought he'd be the dull, stolid type but the bullhorn thing showed a tricky, even ruthless side.
Goodbye Adam. Nice guy, but the carriages thing was just stupid. In this case, I think Trump already decided that Alla was stronger than both Adam and Felisha, even though it was arguably Alla who made the critical decision in this task to overbudget to the carriages and underbudget the people.
Can't really argue with the Final Four. Overall, they have been the strongest.
yadayada
Anyone else think that Rebecca and Shania Twain look an awful lot alike?
Jobiska
Randal/Rebecca made use of Spanish-speaking temps while Alla sent away anyone who "couldn't speak English." I wish this had been brought up in the Boardroom...I would have loved to see Alla get scolded (even if Trump wanted to keep her, it would have been okay to scare her a bit) for sending away a few of the temps Felisha had been able to hire, making the number even smaller!


Notice they didn't mind if they had Spanish speaking help- they just put them where they would be the most effective. [/quote]

Looks like Menolly and I were posting at the same time on the same thing...
quaintirene

Anyone else think that Rebecca and Shania Twain look an awful lot alike? [/quote]

Rebecca does...
illogic

Randal/Rebecca made use of Spanish-speaking temps while Alla sent away anyone who "couldn't speak English." [/quote]

I noticed that too. Talk about not knowing or understanding New York!
Cheynem
I agree that it was kind of sleazy of Randal and Rebecca to do what they did--I would have no problem with outbidding the other team, but this was more of out-and-out lying. It was somewhat redeemed by Randal calling it "Operation: Sabotage," which I guess is better than Operation: Hot Mother.

The carriage idea was a pretty good one if it was executed better; it sounded a lot cooler when Adam was talking about it. And despite the fact he gobbled up a lot of the budget, Felicia did a pretty lousy job at bringing in workers. The central argument in the boardroom reminded me of Albert Speer and Fritz Sauckel at Nuremburg--who was more at fault, the slave trader or the slave master? Or maybe not so much...

Regarding the clip show, it was interesting to note Trump's interpretations for various events. For instance, I never got the feeling that Brian had lost interest in the game (or "fire in the belly"), as he basically acted that way throughout the whole show. Trump calling Markus a menace made me laugh.

The final four reminds me of season two with three front-runners and someone who survived by being more competent than others and winning one task.
lessa2010

I missed the clip show myself, but I caught the last moments and boy did Randal and Rebecca get negative edits.[/quote]

Yeah, I came into the 'real' episode with a less impressed view of Randall, seeing that poster mock up with that sad picture. Rebecca dear, if you had looked beyond the photo maybe you would have seen Randall's other error. Though, that was one bad picture and hard to see around.

Randall came across as uncreative and lazy when it comes to details.

Really bad edit this time round.
cynicalbastard
I think the bullhorn caper was funny and smart and clever. What was unethical about it? CE hadn't paid for them yet. The megaphones were NOT their property. Whoever shows up first with the money gets the horns. What difference does it make to Radio Shack? Trump and Rancic both thought it was great and there was nothing illegal about it. Capital Edge just got outsmarted.

Alla went up the the suite because she had nothing to do with the loss and because she's better than Felicia and Adam anyway. Adam's stupid idea to spend all their money plastering carriages was the reason they lost. I thought it was a good firing and I'm glad Adam's attempt to scapegoat Felicia for his own mistake didn't work.
msrayrudd
Sorry, I had no problem with megaphone gate. I didn't find it unethical one bit because honestly had the other team been in that position, they would have done the same thing. Randall and Rebecca weren't outside the door eavesdropping on what Alla and company were doing. They came upon the information. No money had been put down on the transaction. No names were left. If anything, it should have been more motivation for Alla, Felicia, and Adam to win. Megaphones aren't what made them lose the task.

I also was not at all surprised that nobody in the boardroom--Trump or viceroys had any problem with it. I really didn't think they would have.

I'm not sure how I feel on Adam, but I do think he's a classy guy. It's nice to see a cabride not full of accusations about how everybody else sucks.

Edit: I did however love Carolyn calling Adam and Felicia out as the weakest. Loved Felica's look of shock...HA!
Akai
There wasn't anything wrong in claiming those megaphones; in fact, it struck me as precisely the kind of thing Trump would and has done to get ahead. You find out what your competitor is trying to do to get an edge and you pull it out from under them. That's the whole reason there are "intellectual property" and "non-competitive" clauses in people's employment contracts, because large companies go out of their way, just like the US and USSR in the Cold War to spy on their competitors and steal secrets. This wasn't even that morally suspect tho', because they just stumbled upon the megaphone deal but were cagey enough to move in first. If the other team had *really* wanted those megaphones, they would have paid for them in advance over the phone and then Radio Shack would only have given them to someone producing the matching credit card. That's just the kind of thing that happens at the retail store I work at; people want you to put sale items on hold, but that's not fair to other customers who take the extra effort to be in the store early. Unless you are going to legally claim an item by buying it out right, all's fair.

[QUOTE]On to the show, I actually thought that Alla should have been fired. What the hell did she do?[QUOTE]

No question, it was Alla's responsibilty to decide what ideas to go with and how to divide up the budget. She didn't do that, and so she should have been the one to go. Thing was, neither Adam nor Felishia were canny enough to point this out right away, and by the time she was gone, they'd lost that chance. From there, it was even odds who should go. Frankly, I think the hiring of unattractive, unmotivated non-English speakers was more detrimental than the unattractive, unmotivating, but at least in English wrapping of carriages, but Adam didn't attack Felishia with enough specificity. Too bad; I can't stand Felishia.

And finally:
[/QUOTE]Karma, eh?[QUOTE]

I almost fell off the couch laughing when she said that. Man, if there *is* a law of karma, I sure wouldn't want to be the manipulative stripper two innocent lesbians were murdered in order to procure ....
ghettofabman

Felicia did a pretty lousy job at bringing in workers.[/quote]

I kinda saw this differently. I think that Felisha was the one who had the right idea about marketing, and I also thought she made the best of what she was given.

I think Alla completely ditched Felisha this week the same way that Clay ditched her in the Star Wars task. I think she foresaw her own karma.
wishiwasahunter

The loss was totally Alla's fault. After all, she is the one who alotted the budget, not Adam or Felisha. [/quote]

Exactly. I was convinced that she was going to be fired, given the fact that Trump's "lessons" usually reveal the firee from the start and Alla didn't resist the huge budget alottment for the carriage idea at all.

Though I didn't think the carriage idea was a bad idea when Adam simply talked about it, but it looked pretty crappy in execution. He might have been the right person for firing judging on overall performance, but not this particular task. Trump should have just pulled out his history excuse again.

I guess what Randal and Rebecca did was alright in context of this being a television show and creating "drama", but it was still a very low blow. Quite frankly, I'm a bit tired of watching Trump hold the two of them up as undefeatable "superstars" when both clearly have their weaknesses and Rebecca hasn't won a task as PM yet. So I guess I'm rooting for Alla now, as Felisha hasn't got a shot in hell.
Nutjob

I think Alla completely ditched Felisha this week the same way that Clay ditched her in the Star Wars task. I think she foresaw her own karma.[/quote]

ITA. In a way, Clay is right about Alla--she will step on whomever she needs to in order to win. This isn't necessarily bad... just not nice. I expect to see her eat Felisha alive next week if they lose.
idledandy

Anyone else think that Rebecca and Shania Twain look an awful lot alike? [/quote]
Totally. That entire reward segment was bizarre. Damn, woman, take your hat off!

We know Trump likes to pit people against each other in the boardroom (remember Jen and Sandy?) He totally wanted to see Felisha and Adam go at it. He could have kept Alla in there to give her a scare, but I think he really wanted to see which of the other two would do better without her.

The thing about the megaphone theft that got me was when Randal claimed Capital Edge were his colleagues. That's where that caper went over the line. Why not just offer them more money, but be straight up about it?

The clip show was interesting. Marshawn sounded like an idiot talking about the brochure. Poor Felisha. If she had jumped in and explained, she would have looked bad, and instead she had to let something she created be presented so... lamely.

I'm also glad we got to see more of the XM task (Randal's poster was just a disaster top to bottom, wasn't it) and the Zenthura task (to see how obnoxious Kristi truly was.)


I sure wouldn't want to be the manipulative stripper two innocent lesbians were murdered in order to procure .... [/quote]
Alla didn't murder anyone, nor did she suggest to anyone to murder anyone, nor did she take part in a murder in any way. To blame her for that is akin to blaming Jodie Foster for John Hinckley shooting President Reagan.
crystalsage

What surprised me is that Trump and Bill actually commnended the megaphone "stealing" idea.[/quote] I guess Bill forgets his outrage when Kwame sorta misrepresented himself in Season 1 as a basketball star. Same shit; different day. After all was said and done, just 5 calls separated the teams. Randal and Rebecca had app. 40 more people than the other team, yet they won by only 5 calls. If Alla's team had won, I think Randall and Rebecca would have been hauled on the carpet for the bull horn incident. I think this whole exercise had a pre-determined outcome to get the final four down to the preferred candidates. Trump almost had to fire Randal last week, but Clay provided the convenient out. If Rebecca and Randal had lost this week, Trump would have had to fire one of his favourites.
illogic
If Alla was the one snagging the bullhorns, anyone else think she would have rigged the 10th one to explode?
LadyKenobi

Alla went up the the suite because she had nothing to do with the loss and because she's better than Felicia and Adam anyway. Adam's stupid idea to spend all their money plastering carriages was the reason they lost. [/quote]

But if Allatine is such a magnificent candidate, why didn't she stop the stupid idea? She was the PM. No way should she have gotten off that easily. LadyKenobi sad.

I would still hire Adam over Felisha, but where Allatine is concerned, I guess Trump looking to history. Which is the past.
Akai
Oh, one other thing I wondered about; did anyone else think it was odd that the best idea either team could come up with was sandwich boarding people? Pretty low-rent, cheap idea. First thing I thought was that they should try to plaster the side of a building in Times Square or something with all that stuff; *something* more dramatic than just wandering around town.
msrayrudd
But nobody won or lost on bullhorns so, I think the point doesn't really matter all that much. And no, had Randall and Rebecca lost I don't think they would have been called on that. They would have been called on having so much more manpower and losing, but I don't think they would have been called on the bullhorn incident.

In fact, I hazard to guess that if Randall and Rebecca had lost and they hadn't taken the bullhorns when they accidentally came across the information, Trump would have taken them to task for not having the desire to win.
yadayada

I guess Bill forgets his outrage when Kwame sorta misrepresented himself in Season 1 as a basketball star. Same shit; different day.[/quote]

I might be wrong but I thought there is a difference between what happened tonight with the megaphones and S1. In S1, Kwame was selling himself as a basketball star to part innocent unsuspecting people from their hard earned money. This was Bill's big problem with the tactic. In tonight's scenario, all Randal and Rebecca did was purchase the megaphones that had been set aside for Capital Edge. The only people that got duped other than their competitors was Radio Shack and I don't think they would be complaining since they were paid for the megaphones.
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