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Full Version: 4-10: "Clip Show"/"Shaniagans" 2005.11.24
TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery
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ajesquire

the "advertising materials produced for you by the wrap company are the ONLY advertising materials you are allowed to use." Posting to a fan message board could be construed as an advertising strategy, and as such, it could be outside the guidelines for the task, since it makes use of materials other than the wrap crap.[/quote]

However, had they really enforced that rule the contestants and their temps should not have been allowed to hawk the phone number to passers-by. How many calls do you think we're placed by people who were solicited and never actually saw an inch of "wrapping"?
DeepInTheHeart
It was a lousy task with respect to what might be considered "wrapping."

I think there should have been a proviso in the dossier that would have required the apprenti to "wrap" something, to walk away from it, and to rely solely upon passive reaction to the material (which would have prominently promoted a 1-800 number to call) and its placement.

"Wrapping" relies upon creating some new form of billboard, whether static or mobile, and inducing a reaction. Cars, buses, trolley cars are all classic candidates for "wrapping." This task, however, had little to do with that. The apprenti might as well have been out on the street just hawking the perfume person-to-person -- which is pretty much what both teams did.
CheekyCricket

How many calls do you think we're placed by people who were solicited and never actually saw an inch of "wrapping"?[/quote]

That's part of the reason I hated this task. Carolyn, in particular, didn't seem to care two hoots about the wrapping, except for the lousy wrapping job on the carriages. The boardroom criticism revolved around the need to put as many people and loud voices on the street as possible, not on the teams' use of wrapping. So why bother to include it at all? At that point, I felt that half of the guidelines were already being tossed aside by Trump, Bill and Carolyn, so in theory, making use of a fan message board should be as valid as anything else, but I still believe that would be construed as beyond the bounds. I'm not saying that I agree, only that I believe that's how it would have fallen out.

ETA: DeepInTheHeart, your post popped up right as I was sending mine, so I'll add that I agree with all of your comments. The problem was that although the dossier included the wrapping component as a central part of the task, the judging was based strictly on the number of calls. Which says to me that the "wrapping" was only a gimmick.

Hated the task, hated the short time frame given which hindered creativity, hated the way it was measured, didn't see the whole point, in general. And I've enjoyed this season way more than previous seasons so it was a bit of a letdown. Oh well. Life goes on, a valuable life lesson I learned from the Trumpster himself. [/quote] Yep, yep, yep . . .
NotTheBox
Coming in late but it's just as well. I was so disappointed in this episode, I just don't even care about who had the most temps, the biggest team, whether the carriage was or wasn't a good idea, who got fired or sent from the boardroom, and whether megaphone-gate was unethical or not. The whole thing was just so boring to me because

-I'm tired of watching Apprenti or their hired temps screech at people in the street
-I'm sick of celebrity perfumes and clothing lines. I guess the new corollary to "everyone will be famous for 15 minutes" is, "and have a clothing line or a fragrance."
-If they were going to do the wrap thing to push perfume, how come the ads were a large picture of Shania? If you want people to notice it's perfume, show the bottle. A big poster of some woman doesn't stand out in any way from the hundreds of other ads plastering NY or any city.
-Like others have noted here, I don't see how getting random people to call a number because they want you to go away and leave them alone is a marketing technique that says "here's this great new product..."
-Shania Twain showed no personality whatsoever. Maybe it wasn't fun for her to ride and dine with people who clearly didn't know or care anything about her but, uh, she signed up for this. If you can only talk to people who are fans, why agree to do a lame ass reward like this? And word to everybody who complained she didn't take that damn hat off.

I always have ideas of how I would do the tasks- I would probably be the first person fired each season- but on this one, I thought of wrapping bathroom stalls in public women's rooms, and maybe tops of mirrors etc. Especially in clubs and restaurants. Women are in there primping a little, most everybody has a cell phone... at least the people who called in might have some legitimate interest in getting a freebie. Wrapping the INSIDE of stall doors is great advertising cos you have a captive audience. It's no tackier than accosting strangers on the street.

Hated the task, hated the short time frame given which hindered creativity, hated the way it was measured, didn't see the whole point, in general. And I've enjoyed this season way more than previous seasons so it was a bit of a letdown. Oh well. Life goes on, a valuable life lesson I learned from the Trumpster himself.
sesstr

But I think more than anything, what they were applauding was the hunger, the "fire in the belly" (tm Bill Rancic) that R&R were demonstrating. [/quote]

Yes, but drug dealers also have 'fire in the belly'. There has to be a line that people shouldn't cross for any financial/personal gain, and I think that includes lying and fudging the truth.

I was frankly apalled at Trump's "anything goes philosophy". I wonder, would he have been okay with Rebecca taking credit for Randal's work? Or viceversa? Is lying okay only at team level, or does it extend to individuals? I sure recall Trump frowning on Jennifer M. for seeming to take credit for Ivana's wheel idea. But isn't that also being 'like a gladiator'? Why okay for Rob&Run team but not okay for Jennifer to deftly misrepresent the truth without quite saying a lie?

I'm totally confused as to what on earth "gladiator" means in this context. I suppose he's refering to the old Roman way of fighting to the death any way necessary. What a creep!
sportyc
So it wasn't the greatest episode....

As far as Alla being spared, clearly those in power have already decided that she will be in the final four. She does have a better history than Adam or Felicia if you look back at all the tasks (even though she did ignore Felicia's desire to get more street team). So they wanted to bring her to the end and sent her up early.

As for Adam vs. Felicia: they are both mediocre. won't miss either of them.

And for Megaphonegate: was it a smart business move? yes
was it a bit shady? yes
would i do it in the same situation? probably
It was just a shrewd business move.
And in line with others who pointed out that Radio Shack is not the only place to get megaphones!!!!!!
Jacob
Something I wanted to mention in a couple threads, and I'm not singling anybody out, I just forgot to put it in this thread until just now:

As the moderator for American Idol, I've seen lots of different takes on the whole "my person sucks"/"my person rules" dichotomy. (Some very recently!)

You need to understand that, above all, the forums on this site exist to promote constructive conversation about television. That means that all viewpoints are equally valid. To put it another way: Your opinion is only as valid as everyone else's opinion.

Specifically: you know that your mod loves many of these contestants, and you know that several of your fellow posters love several of these contestants, and they've told you why. That does not give you carte blanche to respond point-by-point, ripping apart criticisms of those with a differing point of view from your own. That doesn't give you a reason to jump in like a freakish horde in order to shout them down by force of numbers. Chances are, they're right, or at least have a valid point. Take it as it's intended, which is as a dispassionate discussion on the show -- not as a personal attack.

We will not dogpile. We will absolutely not jump into this or any other thread to talk smack because we want to diminish other contestants in favor of our "own." We will not get weird, repetitive, creepy or overly intense. We will not be having a repeat of last season's vituperative nonsense. We will learn from past events, or what some call "history." We will stay civil, or we will step away from the computer, and we will remember that our opinion about Contestant X does not have a damn thing to do with anyone else's opinion about Contestant Y. We will remember that' it's just TV, or we will be warned, banned, and/or locked. The next four weeks are going to be friggin' intense, and I don't want the fact that you're invested in this show to have any negative impact on your life.

Crossposted to the Final Four and all forthcoming episode threads.
nodoze

Why okay for Rob&Run team but not okay for Jennifer to deftly misrepresent the truth without quite saying a lie?[/quote]
It's kind of like football. If you manage to take the ball away from the other team, that's okay, in fact that's great. If you try to take credit for a tackle when the reality is that your teammate made the successful tackle, that's not okay.
NoImagination
I didn't see anyone else mention this, but what you did not see in the episode was the real attention-generating part of the task: one of the carriage horses broke lose in Union Square.

The article doesn't mention the Apprentice, but how many Shania Twain perfume carriages can there be in New York?
CheekyCricket

Hero and Princess had been clip-clopping through Manhattan - heading to Union Square for a country-and-Western perfume promotion - around 9a.m. when their handlers said a van clipped the buggy at 14th St. and Eighth Ave.

The coach went flying and the 1-ton draft horses snapped their harnesses like shoelaces before bolting, the handlers said.
. . . .
Princess, a spry 18-year-old, dashed all the way to 13th St. between Fifth and Sixth Aves. before a transit cop with quick hands grabbed her reins - and held on.

Hero was another story.

The 7-year-old steed did not hoof it as far as Princess but was furious when he was surrounded by counterterrorism cops at 14th St. and Sixth Ave.

The elite cops were in the neighborhood for a drill when their radios crackled with wisecracks like "Horses Run Wild!" and quips about getting the horses "in custody."

An Emergency Service Unit officer grabbed Hero's ropes and did the only thing possible - he tied the beast to a light pole.
. . .
The stagecoach was covered with ads touting country singer Shania Twain's new perfume, but a Twain spokesman said no events were scheduled in the city yesterday. Sansoucie refused to identify who paid for the coach.[/quote]
Now THAT would have livened up the episode, even more so (for my tastes) than the Megaphone Caper. I always wonder about what sort of things get left on the cutting-room floor, though presumably, the Apprentice film crew may have been somewhere else. Interesting that Twain's spokesman was unaware of the task, or at least claimed to be unaware of the task. The article was dated May 14th, which means that the task was filmed on May 12th-13th.
ConanGrammarian

yadayada:  WTF? Why was Alla allowed to leave the BR tonight? Did I miss something cause I am sure Felisha pointed out quite clearly to Alla and Adam that she needed more labour and the fact that she can't get more is because of the budget being spent on carriages quite early on in the task.

Is it not the PM's decision then to decide where to spend cash? If Alla is all that great (…I am quite sure she is not) why did she not alter the budget?[/quote]

I agree. Alla got off very lightly. She approved the boneheaded strategy, the division of funds, and the subsequent decimation of the ESL labor force. She was the one really responsible for the loss.

I think the decision had already been made that Randal and Rebecca, by winning and by prior performances (remember Trump accused Clay of ruining them), were in the final four. Alla, based upon past performance (and, perhaps, the ratings titillation of having a stripper connected to a lesbian murder spree in the final four) was also in.

Once CE lost, the choice was which of the two lesser performers would be next week’s sacrificial lamb. It really didn’t matter. Either one is hosed come the interviews. Felisha rode Alla’s coattails to the final four, but in the interview she’s on her own and it won’t be pretty.

Adam has too little experience and is in serious need of some seasoning, so he wouldn’t have lasted past the first executive.


The fact that Excel won by five votes however does tell me that they didn’t sell as well or as hard as the other team, considering they had 45 more people than the other team.[/quote]

Perhaps not. How many of CE’s phone calls were made by Alla or from Alla’s phone at her insistence? If someone came up to me on the street and harangued me until I let them call a phone number, I might do it just to get the crazy lady to go away.

What if CE had won using the phone strategy? The bullhorn theft was a legitimate (albeit sneaky) move (fair since CE left them unsecured at Radio Shack). But stuffing a ballot box in your own favor is definitely going over the line.


LadyKenobi:  Allatine['s]…obnoxious for skipping away from the blame, and Felisha and Adam are too stupid to know they were being divided and and conquered.[/quote]

That political skillset is why Alla[tine] is in the final four and one of the other two is not.


WinkyDink:  Randall better watch out for Rebecca's shiv; it's gotta be there somewhere![/quote]

Word! She’s not the naïve lass she pretends to be. She should have been fired for the whole Toral fiasco, but she survived – and did it talking back to DT. Randal, however, is a bit naïve and unaccustomed to the vicious infighting at which Rebecca and Alla seem to have a fair amount of skill.


WinkyDink:  Why even have "wraps"? Just buttonhole people and tell them, "Here's my cell-phone! I already dialed! Tell them your name and get free perfume!"[/quote]

Why stop there? Why not wrap one sandwich board (since they had to wrap something), take it to Times Square, and pay people passing by $5 apiece to dial the number? Instead of employing homeless people to walk around promoting the number, they could have simply had them dial it. That strategy would have the added benefit of resulting in better-smelling homeless people – a benefit to us all.
Captain Tact II
As far as posting to a Shania Twain message board, I can nderstand not being allowed to advertise the number....but why not just post something along the lines of "Hey! Are you a Shania Twain fan? Live in or near NYC? Wanna help her get the word out about her new perfume (Smells like Horse Spirit?)? Well, come on out to [wherever they're going to meet] and help us spread the word that by calling 1-800-[whatever] people can get a free sample! We'll be out harrassing people when the lines are open- from 10 AM to 4 PM. Come early for bottled water, doughnuts and instructions!"

It edges the line, but could be called recruiting rather than advertising...you're just giving VERY detailed instructions.
retrose1

But R&R had four times as many people (people with megaphones and/or speaking Spanish in a Spanish-speaking neighborhood) and they still only got FIVE MORE VOTES.[/quote]

I think that deployment was the cause of the narrow margin. The teams should have sent at least half of their force to Wal-marts and the other half to the trailer parks (if there is such a thing in NYC). But I'll bet that Wal-mart didn't pay for advertising and Radio Shack did.


The point was to have the "wrapped" used in such a way that IT influences people to call. The way the task was performed by both teams, it wasn't the "wrap" that was getting people to call, but the salespeople.[/quote]

I can't think of wrapping anything that would make me do anything. I see it as wasteful and useless and just another name for a billboard. Maybe wrapped around a $20 bill would influence me.

As far as the final four goes, I care about these guys about as much as I care about Shania's new stench. Felisha I don't care about, Alla's appearance is hard, cold, nasty and looks like she kicks puppies for pleasure, Rebecca looks like Sandra Bullock and Randal reminds me of Kwame. I have no vested interest in any of these guys, I'm only in this for Trumpy love.
SomeTameGazelle

The task dossier (included in the weekly summary on the Yahoo! site) stated that "each team will design advertising materials to be turned into 'wrap'"[/quote]

What??? The teams designed the wraps? I thought they looked identical, except for the number. Maybe all the "design" effort went into figuring out the right dimensions for "people" v. "carriages".
LadyBast

The teams should have sent at least half of their force to Wal-marts and the other half to the trailer parks (if there is such a thing in NYC).[/quote]

NYC doesn't have a Wal-mart (not yet anyway...one was supposed to be built in Queens this year but the plug was pulled) or trailer parks.
CheekyCricket

What??? The teams designed the wraps? I thought they looked identical, except for the number. Maybe all the "design" effort went into figuring out the right dimensions for "people" v. "carriages". [/quote]
Both teams seemed to use the standard promotional photograph for Shania! (the one I've been seeing in the stores) though there may have been some cropping. Looking at some of the still photos on the NBC site, I did notice that the phone number and the text, especially the word FREE, was much more prominent on Capital Edge's sandwich boards than on Excel's: large and right on top of the signs. See here, if you're interested. This may help to account for the close margin of calls, despite the fact that Excel had four times as many street staff as Capital Edge. If the phone number and "Free Samples" wasn't as prominent on the Excel signage, then it would be less likely to generate random phone calls. Bet that would have come up in the boardroom if the 5-call margin had gone the other way.
highlander
If anyone can enlarge these photos please help me out. My computer is not allowing me to do so no matter what I do and I really have trouble seeing the photos without them being enlarged. With heartfelt thanks.
mechitar
I wasn't actually able to see the episode, so I'm only going by the recap with this comment, so maybe take this with a grain of salt...

That thing about Adam spending $6000 to wrap carriages sounds foolish, but consider:
Randal and Rebecca sunk all their money into four times as many people on the streets, and people with bullhorns at that. And yet, with all that supposed advantage, they only won by a handful of calls. In essence, 45 extra people yielded only 8 extra phone calls. If that's so, people with sandwich boards = worthless, and wrapped carriages = gold, and Adam was the only smart one of the bunch. I know that's a simplification, and a bit of a distortion of logic, but that's how it seems to work out.
CheekyCricket

In essence, 45 extra people yielded only 8 extra phone calls.[/quote]
Yeah, when you crunch the numbers, it's hard not to acknowledge that Excel's sandwich-board carriers were nowhere as efficient as Capital Edge's, even though Excel won. I believe Excel deserves credit for the win, but not too much credit. The whole task was kind of a money-waster, since each call ended up costing the teams almost ten dollars. It probably would have been more efficient to mail the perfume samples to a targeted list of consumers. But efficiency is not the point, I guess. Winning is the point, and in the World of Trump, winners take all.
gapkid
I think Alla personally secured at least 100-150 calls all on her own so R&R's 45 extra people did not only manage to get 5 calls more, but probably around 200 more. Still doesn't sound very effective, tho.
odietamo
I am now wondering who counted the calls and how. Remeber Florida in 2000?
Flootoona

Perhaps not. How many of CE’s phone calls were made by Alla or from Alla’s phone at her insistence? If someone came up to me on the street and harangued me until I let them call a phone number, I might do it just to get the crazy lady to go away.[/quote]

If Alla or any other used-up stripper/corporate weasel had come up to me on the street and confronted me like that, she'd have gotten an irate harangue right back in her face, camera crew be damned. I watched the rerun last night, and the way she was screeching at people, "You HAVE to stop RIGHT NOW and CALL THIS NUMBER! We WON'T take no for an answer!" was flat out offensive. That's exactly the kind of marketing approach that makes my blood boil and would virtually ensure that I would never consider making the phone call OR buying the product in question. (As if I would ever be likely to purchase Shaniastank anyway. Ew.) I don't see any element of this promotion - the street whoring, the thousands of yards of poorly designed vinyl advo-wrap, the runaway carriage, the association with Greaseball McHair Von Trumpenberger - yeilding anything in the way of consumer good will. Then again, I've seen video snippets of the throngs of Trumpette Groupies of Questionable Taste who seem to hang outside of all known Hair locations, and they look like exactly the kind of freaks who might drench themselves in some cheap horsey scent because they saw it on TV, so what do I know?
benrod1
A few things from last nights repeat of the episode:

- Alla and CE knew all along that they were buying up the entire stock of megaphones. Possibly thinking that they can get them all and deny them to Excel. So Excel snatching them up first, since CE didnt secure them at all, was a legitimate countermove.

- Alla originally budgeted for 20 then cut Felisha's budget to 15. then after the loss she complained to Adam that she really wanted 25 but all Felisha could negotiate was the 15, who apparently werent qualified enough to sell anything. Well, who's fault was it if the number kept shifting and the money kept getting cut?

- From the editing on the show it looks like CE were the ones who actually were doing most of the accosting of people and getting them to call. Their people mostly just stood around with the park, and if they only stayed at Union Square or Washington Square then you wouldnt get much foot traffic anyway. Excel just stayed in the background and concentrated on proper deployment of troops and resources, including sending people to spanish speaking areas of the city. In effect they actually managed their people better, while CE was just trying to generate calls by any means. CE may have lost by only 5 calls, but the three had to do more of the work to get those calls than their own troops did.
cougarfan45
I've been watching Shania Twain videos since she first came on the scene and have seen her on live TV several times. She is (argueably) one of the most attractive women who have ever been in the entertainment world. She is truely beautiful and has a knock-out body. There is some underlying reason why she left her cowgirl hat on at dinner...maybe she is ill. When she takes her hat off and shakes that long hair, there are few women who can compare as far as sex appeal. It wasn't a matter of too little time, I'm sure they had plenty of time between the horseback ride and the dinner. Also, I thought that she had way too much makeup on, she looked unhealthy or something. Despite what some people on the thread have implied, she is a very talented performer who packs them in to the roof at every performance.

Having said all of that, I thought this episode sucked totally except for BullHornGate, which was a very smart way to play the game.
Toonces67
The Felisha/Adam showdown was like watching two fluffy puppies maul each other to death. Weird and uncomfortable. I kept thinking oh no, make it stop, puppies shouldn't fight.
rollergiraffe

But efficiency is not the point, I guess. Winning is the point, and in the World of Trump, winners take all. [/quote]

In terms of dollar efficiency though, both teams spent the same amount of money.
CheekyCricket
Almost a week later, and my lingering question about the episode remains . . . Well, actually, I have several lingering questions, but the one that is sticking with me is this: what does "being a gladiator," in the sense of being willing to confront others (which is how Trump presented it), have to do with the course of events, or with why Excel won? Adam and Felisha confronted each other in the boardroom, and Adam was still fired. Randal and Rebecca were so nervous about running into Capital Edge at Radio Shack that Randal played lookout and Rebecca tried to get out of the store as fast as possible. Indeed, they took steps to avoid confrontation, and yet they won.

Now if Trump's lesson was that there's merit in tricking your opponent in order to gain an advantage, that would have made some sense. But what Randal and Rebecca did was not "gladiatorial confrontation" in any sense of the term that I understand.

I know, I know, it's a purely rhetorical question . . . why, why, would I expect Trump's lessons to make sense.
blocked writer
Well, almost a week later, and pretty much everything has been said about this episode. I've read with interest how divided people are on the megaphone controversy. I think good points were made on both sides. I still feel somewhat divided on the issue. I understand why Randal and Rebecca did what they did, and as has been mentioned, I do think Trump would have held it against them if he found out that they hadn't snagged the megaphones when they got the chance.

However, I hate the fact that they felt that they needed to do it. I was disappointed in Randal, but at the same time I do think that he was up against the wall. From the last task, when Trump criticized his error on the poster(excessively, I think), to the beginning of this task, when Trump continued to kick him when he was down. I hated the fact that Trump said to Randal, in front of all the other contestants, how much his stock had plummeted (or words to that effect). He had already covered that in the boardroom, so it was just gratuitous to keep hitting that same point, IMO.

I did love how Randal just stared back at Trump with a steely gaze. IIRC, Trump actually asked Randal if he agreed that his stock had plummeted. Did he really think Randal was going for the old okie-doke, and say, "Yes, Mr. Trump, I agree. I was an abject failure on the last task, and I am a disgrace."

I'll always love Randal for the look he gave him. I like to imagine that he was thinking, "I'll show you, you monkey-haired bastard." I really think this spurred Randal to pull out all the stops, and do something he otherwise might not have done. I'd rather have seen him win in a different manner, but as has been mentioned, Alla's cell phone antics weren't completely aboveboard, so neither team played it in a totally unquestionable manner.

But this continues to fuel my discontent with the tasks and the show. The tasks generally do not encourage greatness. The limited timeframes and other restrictions keep us from seeing the best the candidates can do. I think that had both teams been given a few days to come up with a plan to generate the most phone calls, (or even some other criterion for judging), and if they omited the wrapping requirement, the task would have been much more interesting.
Flootoona

"I'll show you, you monkey-haired bastard." [/quote]


I totally want that on a t-shirt. Now.
blocked writer

I totally want that on a t-shirt. Now.[/quote]

And I bet if you were wearing such a t-shirt Flootoona, most people would immediately know it was referring to Donald Trump. ;-)
Rey Kjavik

- Alla and CE knew all along that they were buying up the entire stock of megaphones. Possibly thinking that they can get them all and deny them to Excel. So Excel snatching them up first, since CE didnt secure them at all, was a legitimate countermove.[/quote]

I keep seeing this point being made, which makes me wonder if I'd missed part of the episode. Was there footage showing that Alla & CE were trying not just to buy megaphones for themselves but to go out of their way to deny them to the other team? Or are we just assuming this?

I mean, if they're buying 20 megaphones and only have 15 people (plus themselves) to give them to, then, yeah, we can see what they're up to without having to be told. But since there only seemed to be 10 megaphones to be had, I'm not sure what's the problem with trying to buy them all. Was CE expected to say "Well, we could use all ten, but give us only five, because our competitors will need them, too."
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