I'm surprised that R&R had time to rent a van *and* have it wrapped so neatly.
[/quote]
I was under the impression that both teams had the vans. I think they were something that was done professionally and provided to the teams to help with the task. I'm almost positive Trump mentioned them in his explanation of the task. If I get some time, I'll have to watch that again.
I laughed my ass off when they got the megaphones. Once CE had the things being sent to the one RS, they clearly knew there was an apparent shortage of megaphones in NYC (yeah, I'm not buying that). Knowing that, they should have made getting one of their asses over to RS and securing the megaphones in their posession a priority. I did, however, find it just a little suspect that their cab driver got lost getting them there. Production interference there? Arranging enough time for Randall and Rebecca to get in, pay, and get out with the megaphones?
I knew Trump wouldn't have a problem with it. If you're in business, and you need something from a supplier that your competitor also needs, you're going to keep trying to get that product with everything you've got until either you have it, or your competitor has the product in their posession or a contract of some sort with the supplier. As many have already said, since CE did not make more secure arrangements in regards to the megaphones, like putting a deposit down or just getting their asses over there and picking them up ASAP, RS was free to sell them to anyone who walked in and asked for them. It's a nice extra service to the customers to hold the items for them, but there's no obligation to sell them only to them. Excel did what they needed to do to get the products they felt were vital to their project. And it's not like they set out to sabotage the other team as part of their plan, they just happened across the information by coincidentally coming up with the same idea and calling the same stores. I'd be more likely to be upset if we had seen them standing outside a door listening in to the other three planning so they could get their ideas and beat them to the punch. And, like others, I really question the megaphone shortage. Did either team call a sports store? Particularly one that caters to the area schools with uniforms and equipment for their teams? In the town I grew up in, there was a store that specifically sold gym clothes, team uniforms, and the required equipment for the athletic teams at our high school and the junior highs in the area. If my small town had something like that, I'm sure more than one business like that has to exist in NYC.
I go back and forth on whether Trump sent Alla up to keep her from becoming the obvious choice for firing (by her not keeping her trap shut or one of the others building a stellar case against her), or because he wanted to see Adam and Felisha go head to head without Alla supporting or prompting either of them. He has to have noticed that, whenever Alla's team was in the BR, she was pulling the strings and getting people to say things she wanted said. Maybe he wanted them to defend themselves as a way to prove themselves?
And I was disappointed in Felisha. She had a very good argument for her and against both Alla and Adam right in her hands, and she never used it--"I came up with the same idea that led to a win for Excel, using people. However, I was shortchanged in that the budget had been divvied up to drastically favor the impractical horse carriage idea, so I was unable to get the proper amount of workers out there on the street. With the end results so close, one less carriage could have yielded several more workers. Those extra workers surely could have managed 6 more phone calls for our side." Not only that, but we saw her telling Alla and Adam that she was not comfortable with the way things were divided up and she didn't feel right about the limits on her idea. But then in the boardroom, she claimed she didn't address that issue with Alla. Very bizarre. She really could have done a better job in the boardroom. Lucky for her, Adam was also not good in the BR, and his idea was horrible.
Personally, in addition to whatever marketing idea my team came up with, I'd have slipped an email out to everybody I knew that morning before we went out, asking them to call the number and get everyone they know to call the number. Wonder if that would have been allowed or if someone could have gotten busted for "cheating" if they did something like that. Also, in addition to the "here use my phone" thing, they should have had some cards with the number on them for people who were in a hurry or just plain didn't want to stop in the street and call. If I was a little interested, I don't know if I would have stopped and called right on the street, but I might have made the call from my desk when I got to work if I had the little card with the number on there to get the free sample.
anonymiss
Nov 26, 2005 @ 6:50 am
I would have LOVED if we had got to see a scene where Randal tries to act as a decoy while Rebecca runs (hops) into the getaway cab.
gjj
Nov 26, 2005 @ 8:54 am
Count me in as thinking the move by RnR was wrong. Especially, the whole sin of ommission thing - they went in with the intent to deceive RS that they were the people with whom they made the verbal agreement. I guess it's the whole Sun Tzu thing - All was is deception.
I think they misrepresented themselves and that it was unethical. I also think Randall is the chosen candidate and Trump has to make an excuse like saying that the move was great. Either that, or....maybe Trump isn't so ethical himself?
What a weird world it is when Martha Stewart is more ethical and has a show that is more business oriented than Donald Trump. You know that slogan, "It's not personal, it's business"? BULLSHIT. With Trump it is all personal (and personality). Not too much entrepreneurial business sense (that's Martha's show), but Melania's hot.
*edited because it's melani AH and not melanie.
gapkid
Nov 26, 2005 @ 9:05 am
I wish Felicia was fired; then the Final 4 would consist of 3-time winning PM Randal and the 3 people he narrowly beat: Alla (978-973), Rebecca (8.1-7.9) and Adam (7.07-6.98).
PinkyTuscadero
Nov 26, 2005 @ 9:26 am
So it turns out Adam is only 22. The show a couple of weeks ago made it sound like he was Steve Carell's 40 year old virgin. [/quote]
The thing is, I don't think Adam not raising his hand meant he never had sex. I think he just didn't want to answer the question on a national television show that his parents and grandparents mght watch. I respect the fact the he keeps his sex life private.
But I have to say my favorite quote from the night was when Adam was spraying the perfume on a woman and he said "MMM...delicious, right?"
marketdoctor
Nov 26, 2005 @ 9:29 am
I thought the clip show had The Chosen Ones (R & R) looking good, and those that badmouthed the show after (Toral, Markus) looking even worse. Whether that was editing or not is an open question. To be fair, I thought Marshawn looked worse (the whole bit with the Lamborgini presentation), and I don't recall her bad-mouthing the show, so it might have been "lets edit those fired to look worse so DT looks smarter".
I watched the show, and after two minutes I thought "police/security guard supply store, uniform store, sporting goods store." Usually I think of something clever the next day, which probably happens to the Apprenti, but that one was a real-time "what, you can't find bullhorns? Or for that matter, use your MIT skills to build one out of a karaoke machine?*" Also, wrapping the carriages did look strange, but Alla passing out her cel-phone to passerby was good, and ITA that not going to schools (high school or college) was bad.
* Kind of off-topic, but: put a blank tape or CD in a karaoke machine, or a regular one but hit "pause", and turn up the volume. A karaoke machine becomes an instant portable PA system. Not a great one, but usually louder and more comprehensible than yelling. And to think MIT turned me down...(sniff.)
sesstr
Nov 26, 2005 @ 11:03 am
Alla -- with a past like your's -- maybe you shouldn't mention anything about karma.[/quote]
But maybe she's already paid her karma debts. She shouldn't have to keep repaying them over and over.
RnR[/quote]
Rob n' Run?
cggb
Nov 26, 2005 @ 11:48 am
Thinking about it from that perspective, targetting high schools and junior high schools would have garnered a lot more calls. Some recent marketing data I've seen says that many "tweens" and teens have multiple deodorants, shampoos and fragrances. And, comparatively older women have fewer duplicate products and are more loyal to the products they have. Younger women still experimenting are the dream of many consumer products brand managers!
[/quote]
Is Shania Twain popular with the high school set these days? I have my doubts that teenage girls would want to be caught dead with a Shania fragrance prduct.
intrepide
Nov 26, 2005 @ 1:42 pm
Thinking about it from that perspective, targetting high schools and junior high schools would have garnered a lot more calls. [/quote]
Is Shania Twain popular with the high school set these days? I have my doubts that teenage girls would want to be caught dead with a Shania fragrance product.[/quote]
cggb, you're probably right that Shania isn't a draw for that age group in an urban area. I think, however, that the number of teens that have cell phones and and the fact that they would have no hesitation in calling a toll-free number for a sample would have made it worthwhile risking some temp resources. They're also a group that can be relied upon to tell their friends, so selling one person on calling the number would probably yield 2 or 3 more calls.
AdrienneP
Nov 26, 2005 @ 2:30 pm
....and Alla was, of course, politically brilliant in this episode as all others. I don't think she necessarily deserved to be fired -- Adam was so, so weak. She simply asked her team for good ideas. Adam told about his with great passion, and Felisha did not seem as passionate in arguing her point. Alla, like many bosses, gave the most leeway to the person who seemed to have the most dedication to his idea. She bought into his passion: "If you feel it, run with it," she said. The fact that Adam was fired because his idea was ineffective was perfectly right, I believe. People complain when the boss takes credit for their good ideas, right? So IMO they shouldn't complain when the boss doesn't take the fall for their "good" ideas as well. [/quote]
Brilliant, auntiemame. Alla hasn't been my favorite but she HAS been a great player of the game, and I think it will come down to her and Randall in the final 2. Rebecca is great in the boardroom, but overall her performances have only been good or average, not outstanding. Felisha can be strong but overall doesn't stand out as independent apart from Alla, IMO.
Regarding the megaphone incident, as someone upthread said, it's cool that the goody goodies (Randall and Rebecca) were the ones who resorted to "questionable" tactics. Whether or not it's ethical, well... Trumpy had no problem with it; it's his game and we know he makes his own rules.
nubbs
Nov 26, 2005 @ 2:38 pm
I have my doubts that teenage girls would want to be caught dead with a Shania fragrance prduct. [/quote]
Hopefully, they aren't too keen on 'Curious' either.
As rule bending was permitted, they should have lied to the men and told them the sample comes with a risque picture of Shania. That'd draw them like flies.
Black Knight
Nov 26, 2005 @ 2:40 pm
Personally, in addition to whatever marketing idea my team came up with, I'd have slipped an email out to everybody I knew that morning before we went out, asking them to call the number and get everyone they know to call the number. Wonder if that would have been allowed or if someone could have gotten busted for "cheating" if they did something like that.[/quote]
It's been mentioned on the boards during past seasons that this type of thing (using personal contacts) is forbidden in the show rules. That's why the contestants have to use special cell phones, for instance, to prevent them from calling people they know.
Since Adam had such amazing analytical skills, I'm surprised he couldn't see the flaw in his argument that he used twice against Alla's assertion that Felisha was better: "She's only seen me for four weeks and in each of those tasks I've been extremely strong." He should have shut up right after the "four weeks" - to add that he's been a strong performer only, by implication, means that Felisha must have been even better if Alla's endorsing Felisha over Adam. It certainly doesn't do anything to prove that Alla's assessment is inaccurate. He needed to present concrete reasons why he was better than Felisha, and he failed.
I also got very tired of Adam slamming Felisha for not getting more temps with the money she'd been allotted - I was dying for her to ask him why, if he's such a fan of negotiating, he didn't negotiate a better price for the carriages. She didn't, so I was happy to hear Trump specifically mention that Adam spent over half the budget on the carriages as one of the reasons he was being fired.
Alla was brilliant in the way she set up Adam and Felisha, making sure that they'd attack each other rather than her. I love her. Such fun. I don't mind Trump sending her up, since she wasn't going to be fired anyway (although Trump should have cited past performance as the reason why she was safe) and it forced Adam and Felisha to go head-to-head. I personally thought that Carolyn's antagonistic attitude wasn't really born out of personal animus, but out of a desire to see who would crack when pushed. It's a common tactic - I had an interview for a promotion recently where my feet were really held to the fire over a past incident. If the past incident had really been such a big deal, I would have been disciplined or fired when it happened, but they just wanted to see how I would handle being attacked. After the interview was over, we all laughed about it. That said, Felisha really flunked her test.
bazicdancer
Nov 26, 2005 @ 4:35 pm
I still don't know why Donal Trump consider Rebecca a strong player as much as Randall. She has been the leader twice and failed. I am not too fond of Felicia but she is better than Rebecca and for her to be consider a weaker player and weakest out of the four is wrong. Randall and Alla are the strongest but Felica should be third strongest...she was better than Adam.
I don't know what Rebecca has done to make her so highly in Trump's eyes..but she basically skated through the whole season. She basically rode the coat tail of Randall and if Felica gets fired before Rebecca, that would be so wrong..
marylou
Nov 26, 2005 @ 4:50 pm
Clip show=great, worth watching. Everything makes more sense now. I noticed again that TD pronounced Marshawn's name "MARshawn", which sounds a bit like "martian" and is clearly not the correct pronunciation. Everyone else called her "marSHAWN," save maybe for Carolyn, who also says "DISplay" instead of "disPLAY", perhaps it's the NYC accent thing, I don't know. Makes me laugh, anyway.
Real show:
Felisha, please don't sing that craptastic song. We don't want to hear it. See Alla cringing? That's for you, girlfriend.
Alla, are you serious about Clay making your breakfast or are you maybe just trying to manipulate your teammates?
Wrappers, how did you both come up with the same BAD idea of making cheesy sammich boards out of your wrapping? There are 1000 better ways to use the wrapping. Maybe not wrapping carriages or horses, but you know what I mean.
Losers, why didn't you talk to each other? Alla spoke with both of you individually, are you not bright enough to realize she is playing you both?
Producers, I'm getting the impression that Rebecca's broken ankle is requiring a non-weight bearing recovery. Why not let the poor girl have a wheelchair all season so we don't have to watch the hopping and knowing that Rebecca is expending energy she should have for the game on just getting around? Really, we the viewers would understand.
Bill, is there anything we can do for you? It's like you were brainwashed by the Zombie Death Trump Cult or something.
Shania, why do you darken my screen with your dead-eyed talentless presence? And can you explain to me how the cellar of the restaurant you allegedly ate dinner at looks identical to at least two other rewards in restaurants with cellars? New Yorkers on this forum, does every restaurant really have this same uggo cellar or is this really just a set piece being rehashed every time they have dinner as a reward?
Trump, I think it's good that you like Alla so much, because all three of the other candidates (including Felisha, who I despise) deserve so much more than working for you. Alla, somehow seems appropriate to the amoral environment that is Trumpland. Spare the others, take the freak praying mantis borg stripper.
Turbonancee
Nov 26, 2005 @ 5:11 pm
It would have been such great TV if Trump hadn't liked the "sabotage" that R&R did. He could have called them back to the boardroom with Alla et al still there and had a REAL showdown.
legaleagle44
Nov 26, 2005 @ 5:33 pm
It would have been such great TV if Trump hadn't liked the "sabotage" that R&R did. He could have called them back to the boardroom with Alla et al still there and had a REAL showdown.[/quote]
He really couldn't have done that, though because, like it or not, they had won the task, and to have fired one (or both) for it would have negated the result of the win and the point of the competition. Besides, I don't think that the megaphones really had anything to do with why Rebecca and Randal won, which is probably why it was so easy for Donald and Bill to dismiss "Megaphonegate" to begin with. Even if it had contributed to the win, as Miss Alli has pointed out, is it really unethical to claim something that had never actually belonged to someone else?
Lisetta
Nov 26, 2005 @ 5:45 pm
is it really unethical to claim something that had never actually belonged to someone else? [/quote]
The problem to me is that last part, "never actually belonged to someone else."
It's true that Alla hadn't bought the megaphones yet, but R&R clearly knew that the other team were the ones who had asked Radio Shack to find as many as they could and were already on their way to pick them all up.
They didn't lie, exactly, but they definitely misrepresented themselves to RS and made it seem as if they were picking up the order on behalf of the person who'd called them on the phone. To me, their guilty body language said it all. .
That said, I agree there's no way to gauge the impact the megaphones did/didn't have on the task. And since Trump thought the manpower was such a big factor in the loss, I wish he had asked R&R why, with 4xs the sales people, they didn't win by more than 5 phone calls. I'd be really interested to hear how they'd explain that.
Turbonancee
Nov 26, 2005 @ 5:44 pm
But Trump does have a habit of breaking the rules. Why not drag the cheating team into the boardroom and throw the rules out the window? I'm just looking at this from a purely "entertaining TV" point of view. I mean we've had the drama of multiple firings, why not the drama of "oh, so you just THOUGHT you won and were safe from firing"? And I do think it was unethical of R&R to buy megaphones they knew were set aside for the other team. I was quite disappointed in Randal. Rebecca, not so much.
SomeTameGazelle
Nov 26, 2005 @ 5:46 pm
I wonder how many calls were not received before the 4pm deadline and therefore weren't counted. The ads themselves didn't seem to have any indication that this was a limited time offer, so I can easily imagine that people might make a note of the number but not call right away. We know Capital Edge emphasized the deadline; I wonder if Excel's larger workforce was doing the same?
I would have preferred it if the task had been set up so that either what they chose to wrap would have had a greater impact on winning or losing (e.g. instead of $10K to spend as they liked, each team was given wrapping material plus equal manpower), or that wrapping was a non-issue (e.g. each team could be given the pre-wrapped van plus the $10K). The emphasis on wrapping confused me and I was expecting both teams to be criticized for not being very creative with the wrapping. (Of course I also wasn't paying enough attention and was worried that Randall must be going insanely over budget by hiring 60 temps if Capital Edge could only afford 20.)
Raging Demons
Nov 26, 2005 @ 7:24 pm
When Excel & Capital Edge were racing for the megaphones, this one thought kept popping up in my head:
When did this turn into an episode of "The Amazing Race"?
Irma in Green
Nov 26, 2005 @ 7:29 pm
When they first said they were "wrapping" things I was thinking of something more Christo-esque, not lame sandwich boards.[/quote]
This was my original thought as well. However, when Christo and Jeanne Claude wrapped the Reichstag in Berlin, it was for Art's sake. I admit I didn't understand the purpose, but could appreciate the passion of their "performance". This task was set up by Donald to be a creative endeavor, but it quickly degenerated into a class-less schtick. The only mention of the original objective (ie; "wrapping") was to point out that the carriages looked like hell. Excel made zero attempt at wrapping. Why not use Rebecca's leg cast? It has got to smell as good as any horse by now!
I'm surprised that R&R had time to rent a van *and* have it wrapped so neatly.
I was under the impression that both teams had the vans. I think they were something that was done professionally and provided to the teams to help with the task. I'm almost positive Trump mentioned them in his explanation of the task. If I get some time, I'll have to watch that again.[/quote]
KerleyQ, No need to re-watch your tape. Trump did in fact say that both teams had a wrapped van. We only got a glimpse of Randall's. I can only imagine that Adam was driving around in his team van.
Long ago I discovered my favorite scent. It is not Elizabeth Taylor's White Diamonds or Cher's Uninhibited. My two teen-age daughters do not douse themselves in Britney Spears' Curious or J. Lo's Glow. Shania Twain's Shania by Stetson? I imagine this to be a pretty hard-to-sell item that will cost Mutt much more than $20,000 to launch. The upside of both team's sale tactics was that it did create a buzz, and we all know what they say; any type of publicity is good publicity.
Given the nature of The Apprentice having to assign a "winner/loser" to each task, the short term results of 2000 calls will be offset by the number of national viewers that tried either 800-number this weekend. I myself did not make note of the number, but am guessing that Coty had the lines covered in order to cash in. Did any of you TWoPers try?
PinkyTuscadero
Nov 26, 2005 @ 7:47 pm
It's true that Alla hadn't bought the megaphones yet, but R&R clearly knew that the other team were the ones who had asked Radio Shack to find as many as they could and were already on their way to pick them all up. [/quote]
I don't know why they just didn't stop by a police station or fire station and asked to borrow a few for a few hours.
If two business people were bidding on a piece of property and one team found out what the other was bidding and decided to offer a competing bid...that's business. If Randal had taken the megaphones after Adam had offered some form of a guarantee i.e. payment or down payment that would have been one thing.
This was just like when Sandy went to some of the bridal stores and asked for exclusivity so that the other team couldn't buy their products to sell at their bridal expo. Alla was just pissed because she got one upped. She should have been thinkign further ahead.
nodoze
Nov 26, 2005 @ 8:14 pm
It would have been such great TV if Trump hadn't liked the "sabotage" that R&R did. [/quote]
I thought it made great tv BECAUSE Trump liked Randal's tactic!
As KerleyQ pointed out upthread, because using megaphones is a very obvious way to get people's attention in this type of task, when Alla realized that megaphones were in short supply she made a tactical error by assuming that Randal would not also want them. It is not unusual in business (or politics) that enterprises are forced to compete for scarce resources----be it a highly qualified workforce, oil rights, or megaphones. I agree with all the posters who think that Alla should have done a better job to guarantee her order.
Randal did not cheat; he made a tactical move that would increase the chances of his company's survival and decrease the chances of his competition.
2BigDogs
Nov 26, 2005 @ 10:11 pm
I know I'm obsessing about that craptastic reward...
but when the three Horsemen walked into the cellar for dinner, wearing the SAME clothes they wore riding the horses, I almost fell over.
After you ride a horse, you are filthy. You smell as bad as the horse and have schmutz under your fingernails. Rebecca and Randal, non-horsey-people to start, would have been uncomfortable eating in a McDonald's after riding. A nice restaurant? Unbelievable.
No amount of Shania by Stetson perfume could hide that funk.
legaleagle44
Nov 26, 2005 @ 11:14 pm
Thank you, 2BigDogs! I myself wondered why none of them had bothered to change for the restaurant, although at least Randal and Rebecca were appropriately attired from the start; Shania, not so much (cowboy skank at a moderately upscale Manhattan restaurant? I don't think so, Missy!)
Carrabuda
Nov 26, 2005 @ 11:25 pm
I figured that was probably why they put those three in a separate room - so the other diners wouldn't have to smell them.
auntiemame
Nov 27, 2005 @ 1:15 am
Is Shania Twain popular with the high school set these days? I have my doubts that teenage girls would want to be caught dead with a Shania fragrance prduct. [/quote]
While I hope to God that this is true -- that, in fact, the set of "women who would wear Eau De Slutty" is nil -- I regret to say that I have had some disturbing first-hand knowledge of how this perfume is being marketed. Today I was in my local Duane Reade (the chain of drugstores that has taken over NYC -- think Rite Aid, Eckerd, etc.) poking and prodding at the OPI nail polishes, (you know how you do)when a bubble-gum pink monstrosity of a makeup bag fell from a lower shelf. I picked it up and -- gasp! -- it was faux-leather vomit-pink stamped with "Shania by Stetson" and a horrid large gold star on the zipper. The garish color scheme and the gold star made me think it was targeted to teens or tweens. It was so livid that it made Britney Spear's "Curious" (malevolently hovering with a Central High Varsity-colors-type indigo glow on a nearby shelf) look as if it were designed for dowagers.
Shudder. I ran, ran as fast as my legs would take me.
aisela
Nov 27, 2005 @ 1:44 am
When they first said they were "wrapping" things I was thinking of something more Christo-esque, not lame sandwich boards.[/quote]
It's typically not sandwich boards. At my previous job we used "wrapping" on revamped, remodled city buses that were used to provide mobile technology training. It's really not anything new in advertising, in spite of what Trump bellowed. I was really disappointed that the best they came up with was wrapping "people" and carriages. It seemed unfair that wrapping was supposed to be the point but when it came down to it, all Carolyn and Bill could go on about was how horses can't talk and create any sense of urgency so wrapping carriages was an ass-y idea (it did look bad, though). So where they supposed to come up with a killer way of creating hype, or a killer way of "wrapping", or both, or what? Ugh. This episode was just bad.
ugarte
Nov 27, 2005 @ 2:40 am
Edited because I removed my own post because I just realized that posting before reading can get a guy banned. Because I am a stupid newbie. Sorry about that.
Having gone back I see that only
gastrolyor said what Adam should have said:
Yeah, the carriages weren't beautiful, but look: if, with fifteen temps and those carriages, we only lost by five calls to Excel, who had sixty temps, doesn't that suggest that the carriages were a good idea and/or that Excel had badly managed temps/won through sheer luck?[/quote]
Why on earth did everyone in the boardroom assume that the carriages were a failure? Everyone seems to assume that the reason it was so close was because Alla and Felicia were letting people use their phones. But R&R had four times as many people (people with megaphones and/or speaking Spanish in a Spanish-speaking neighborhood) and they still only got FIVE MORE VOTES. Nobody knows why people called; all we know is the final call count. If I were Adam I'd have argued that the carriages were more successful than the street team. Let someone else prove me wrong. The failure was on Felicia for failing to negotiate more than 15 people out of the temp budget, for failing to specify the type of person she wanted for the task and on Alla and Felicia together for failing to properly deploy the people they did get.
Adam got fired not only because he couldn't figure out a way to distinguish himself from Felicia but also because he couldn't articulate why the carriages were a good idea. They were his baby and he was going to live or die with their perceived success. If he can't explain why it was a good idea to use carriages, he doesn't deserve to stick around.
peterredtail
Nov 27, 2005 @ 10:18 am
Not a popular thought - but Shania looked very uncomfortable during this whole thing...this is one of the first times I have seen her shill something other then music. Maybe she was out of her element, there she is doing something she loves (riding horses) with two people who obviously don't love it. Then she has to eat dinner with them. This is a woman who prides herself on her looks but looks sloppy during her dinner.
Wrapping the carriages, they were done sloppily if a little more care had gone into them, they might have worked...Alla and her group couldn't focus on one thing - maybe offer free carriage rides in exchange for making a phone call. An earlier poster mentioned hiring models to promote the stuff - much better idea, NYC is full of wannabe actors and models. Or better yet, go to one of the University campuses and hire students. Lack of focus is what lost this task for them.
gastrolyor
Nov 27, 2005 @ 2:03 pm
ugarte, I'm with you. I'd love to know why the carriages were dismissed out of hand as a bad idea when the scores were so close. If people were truly the deciding factor, then this should have been a blow-out win for Rebecca and Randal.
Or better yet, go to one of the University campuses and hire students. [/quote]
That would have been a brilliant idea. You can't walk a block on campus without running into at least five people on their cellphone, and almost every student has one. Targeting them for calls would have made far more sense, as they would be: a) more likely to call and b) would have the necessary equipment.
nodoze
Nov 27, 2005 @ 2:48 pm
...R&R ...still only got FIVE MORE VOTES. [/quote]
IMO, the close result indicates that Alla could have won by a LANDSLIDE if she had used her resources as effectively as Randal used his. Alla's management team consisted of two other able-bodied people to plan and execute: work the crowd, supervise the temps, pick up the megaphones, etc. Randal had only one person to contibute ideas, and she was on crutches and therefore could not get around quickly to perform tasks requiring mobility (like working the crowd or traveling around the city to motivate and supervise the troups face-to-face). Randal was smart enough to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat (as the saying goes) by outthinking Alla both tactically and operationally.
debng
Nov 27, 2005 @ 2:52 pm
ugarte, I'm with you. I'd love to know why the carriages were dismissed out of hand as a bad idea when the scores were so close. If people were truly the deciding factor, then this should have been a blow-out win for Rebecca and Randal.[/quote]
That's the thing. Alla, Felicia and Adam should have been disagreeing with Donald and the Viceroys about the extent of their loss, and should have rather played it up as a victory. They had 45 less people and 9 less megaphones - yet they only lost by 5 phone calls. Adam especially should have drilled this point home. It seems to me that Randal and Rebecca were the real slackers here.
legaleagle44
Nov 27, 2005 @ 3:44 pm
That's the thing. Alla, Felicia and Adam should have been disagreeing with Donald and the Viceroys about the extent of their loss, and should have rather played it up as a victory. They had 45 less people and 9 less megaphones - yet they only lost by 5 phone calls. Adam especially should have drilled this point home. It seems to me that Randal and Rebecca were the real slackers here.[/quote]
But that's not the way business works. There is no "tie" in a business setting; you either beat your competition or you don't, and if you don't, you don't survive. A loss by five calls is just as much of a loss as one by 500 calls would have been--it's not a "victory" in any sense of the word, and had Adam, of all people, tried to claim that it was to Donald and the Viceroys, it would have been seen as downright disingenuous, and, even worse, have been considered a blatant insult to their intelligence. Donald and the Viceroys have, in fact, shot that very theory down in previous seasons (remember Pamela trying to claim that her team had actually "tied" simply because they lost by a mere $10.00? That strategy didn't work so well then, either.)
CheekyCricket
Nov 27, 2005 @ 4:36 pm
Shudder. I ran, ran as fast as my legs would take me.
[/quote]
Hee! I've been seeing the Shania! by Stetson posters for a while. The actual marketing seems to focused on discounters, big-box stores such as Wal-Mart, K-Mart and Target, and drugstores.
There have been some blowouts this season--the Senior Techno Expo, the Dick's Sporting Goods task, the Star Wars task--and in that context, I'm still struggling to see this as a comparable win, and trying to understand why Adam and Felisha were treated so harshly in the boardroom. I've come to the conclusion that Trump, Bill and Carolyn played up this up as a major loss by Capital Edge, despite the miniscule 5-call margin, because, well, Trump wants to hire Randal, and if they can cast this win as a major victory, then he's regained some of the glow lost over the past two episodes. Excel, with Randal and Rebecca, lost the Star Wars task and the XM Radio task by missing key points of the assignment. The gist of this task was too simple for anyone to miss: get the most calls, and sorta wrap something or another with plastic film. As we witnessed, it didn't really matter what they wrapped. All that mattered in the judging was to get the most calls.
Even though I still feel as though Randal and Rebecca misrepresented themselves in order to get the megaphones ordered by Capital Edge, I'm starting to see that without their act of sabotage, this would have been a dull episode indeed.
Hoola
Nov 27, 2005 @ 5:04 pm
There is no "tie" in a business setting; you either beat your competition or you don't, and if you don't, you don't survive.[/quote]
I think Pepsi would disagree with you. There's lots of room for more than one brand or company within a niche. And sometimes the companies with higher revenues fail because their profits were lower. In the long run, hypothetically, Alla's team developed a more efficient method of achieving the desired results. They could have bagged the carriages and ran with their short staff.
That's why I disagree with transposing The Art of War to a business setting. Many times it's not about cutthroat competition or destroying rivals. Sometimes its about making a great product and delivering it in the most efficient way. Also, not that I think what R&R did was that wrong with the megaphones, it's important to build trust with your vendors and customers. Enron pretty much failed because the leadership thought that lying and being cutthroat was all you needed to make money.
nodoze
Nov 27, 2005 @ 5:16 pm
In the long run, hypothetically, Alla's team developed a more efficient method of achieving the desired results. [/quote]
They could have, but they did not achieve the desired results in the allotted time! Alla had a bad day. She had a larger management team able to get around without crutches ---- but she still lost because Randal played the game better in the time allotted to play it.
sesstr
Nov 27, 2005 @ 5:23 pm
she still lost because Randal played the game better in the time allotted to play it. [/quote]
I would say Randal played dirtier, that's why he won. Alla was smarter by reserving the horns earlier - why didn't the Rob n' Run team think of the horns earlier than Alla? There are a lot of times in business when you can win by cheating, but I wouldn't think of it as good business skills. There is a big debate in business schools about the ethics of business especially since the recent WorldCom / Enron disaster. If the executives of these firms had done things fairly and not misrepresented facts for the purpose of winning in the short term, thousands of people wouldn't have lost their retirement pensions. This kind of thinking has a big impact in real world business.
nodoze
Nov 27, 2005 @ 5:47 pm
I would say Randal played dirtier, that's why he won. Alla was smarter by reserving the horns earlier - why didn't the Rob n' Run team think of the horns earlier than Alla? [/quote]
Maybe Randal and Rebecca were too busy mapping out their winning strategy and making sure that the temps they hired were qualified for the job to think of the megaphones earlier in the game! Maybe Alla was at fault for concentrating on megaphones when she should have been strategizing better. Also, I wouldn't exactly call Alla the Queen of Clean, and if you don't know what I'm talking about, please check her thread.
As many people have been saying, Alla should have placed a guarantee on her order because megaphones were in short supply and Randal might want them too. Randal was playing fair and square by taking advantage of a weakness of his opponent, just as football and basketball players do when the other team has the ball. If Alla had already paid for the megaphones, Randal would have been stealing, but those megaphones did not belong to Alla yet because they weren't paid for or guaranteed.
If their positions had been reversed, I would bet that Alla's team would have been itching to take the megaphone "football" away from Randal.
Batrochides
Nov 27, 2005 @ 6:02 pm
If CE had argued that their loss was virtually a tie, that would have been the ticket to Sequesterville for Alla, and possibly others...one only has to look at what happened to Pamela in TA2, when she adopted the same argument after leading her dysfunctional Apex team to a near-victory on the QVC task.
jousne
Nov 27, 2005 @ 6:20 pm
If CE had argued that their loss was virtually a tie, that would have been the ticket to Sequesterville for Alla, and possibly others...one only has to look at what happened to Pamela in TA2, when she adopted the same argument after leading her dysfunctional Apex team to a near-victory on the QVC task. [/quote]
Alla did apparently bring up the "only 5 calls" argument more than once, because Carolyn said to her "will you stop saying that it was only 5 calls". But I understand what you mean.
ETA: Well, it WAS only 5 calls.[/quote]
Yes, and that's probably due to how incredibly obnoxiously agressive Alla and Felisha were about it, while Randal and Rebecca were strategic. On the extended footage on Yahoo, Bill criticizes CE for this. I have to say that had it been me, I would have found the opposing team's number and called it, just to get back at someone rude enough to accost me like that. But that's just me.
It was also pathetic the way Alla cried to Trump about the megaphone thing. Did she actually expect pity? Give me a break.
Maybe Adam would not have pulled a stunt like that, but Alla would have, so she has nerve saying that it hit "below the belt".
If Alla had placed a guarantee on the megaphones, then she probably would have been given an order number or some such identification,[/quote]
I had thought of this, too, but didn't the RS clerk say that it was a guy (i.e. Adam) who had called?
tjmor
Nov 27, 2005 @ 6:33 pm
I think CE would've placed a guarantee on their order if they could. May be they have put a deposit that was charged to their charge card, and Rebecca paid the balance with cash. I think we will never know for sure.
But this isn't the point. The point is that Rebecca and Randall didn't even know if there was a guarantee. They thought there was a guarantee, that why they immediately decided to impersonate Capital Edge in the store.
Here is what was written on The Apprentice official site:
After learning that Capital Edge had secured all the megaphones in Manhattan, Randal and Rebecca pulled a heist of sorts dubbing their caper, "operation sabotage." Determined to win at all costs, the Excel duo impersonated their corporate competitors and bought all the megaphones that Capital Edge had reserved.[/quote]
Please note the words heist, impersonate, sabotage - aren't they lovely, especially when used on a professional resume?
nodoze
Nov 27, 2005 @ 6:43 pm
If Alla had placed a guarantee on the megaphones, then she probably would have been given an order number or some such identification, or else Alla should have given the supplier her own purchase order number. If she did that, then Rebecca would not have been able to walk off with the megaphones without proof that she placed the order in the first place. But Alla did nothing to ensure that her team's order was protected; Alla is at fault for not ensuring that her company's interests were adequately protected from a competitor.
If Donald Trump wanted to buy some rare marble for a lobby and knew that his competitor also wanted the same marble but had not yet placed a purchase order with the supplier, I bet Donald would buy that marble from under his competitor's nose, just like Randal took the megaphones from under Alla's nose.
CheekyCricket
Nov 27, 2005 @ 6:47 pm
Alla did apparently bring up the "only 5 calls" argument more than once, because Carolyn said to her "will you stop saying that it was only 5 calls". [/quote]
Well, it WAS only 5 calls. I think I would be pointing it out too, and not because I was attempting to deny the loss. It was still a loss, and someone has to be fired, but it seems to me that Trump and the Viceroys should have some way of distinguishing between major and minor losses other than firing multiple team members for major losses. I guess that would potentially undercut some of the dramatic potential since acknowledging a small margin of victory would make it harder to make claims such as "Wrapping the horse carriages was a horrible idea! One of the worst ever!" rather than saying "Wrapping the horse carriages was an unsuccessful idea," or "a dumb idea" or something less fevered. (Even though the horse-carriage deal didn't work out, it was at least an attempt at creative thinking, more so than anything Excel attempted.)
If Alla had placed a guarantee on the megaphones, then she probably would have been given an order number or some such identification, or else Alla should have given the supplier her own purchase order number[/quote]
I doubt that, given the tight time frame of the tasks, the teams have time to prepare purchase orders. On some tasks, they are given a credit card, and they could use that to secure a purchase--provided that the teams are given cards with different account numbers, and not cards with a central account number. If they're given cards with the same number, then the cards are basically useless to protect an order from the other team. Adam's name came up in the phone conversation, so clearly Radio Shack did have a name for a contact person. It's just that Randal and Rebecca misrepresented themselves as being on Adam's team. Some will call that smart, others will call it shifty. I'm torn, myself.
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