TWoP Forums > 4-10: "Clip Show"/"Shaniagans" 2005.11.24

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TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery

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quaintirene

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:10 pm

I read and other candidates confirmed that the candidates are not allowed to carry their own money or credit cards at all during this interview process. They must give them to Burnett's staff when they first get to the suite. [/quote]

Thanks Highlander. That's what I thought, and what I was trying to say earlier! The Apprenti are not allowed to use their own money or cards in any circumstances. So they couldn't even leave a card to hold the merchandise.

Quiddler

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:12 pm

Wow, that clip show proved that Markus was an even bigger doofus than I thought...

The extra Markus stuff. After akk his whining about how he was edited, I saw tonight as a big FU from Burnett. Sort of like "You should have shut your mouth. Now I'll show how bad you really can be, bitch!"[/quote]
And total word to both of those comments. I was sitting there giggling about how Burnett and the editors seemed to obviously go out of their way to make absolutely sure they shored up the "Markus is a talkative ass" editing. <heh>

As for the bullhorns, I fail to see anything even remotely unethical about it. Randal and Rebecca NEVER said that they were other than who they were, just that they were there to pick up the bullhorns. Which they were. [/quote]Exactly, Scrounge. And, as Miss Allli pointed out, you don't "own" them if you haven't paid for them...or put a deposit on them ... or even bothered to give them a name. And, besides, it's not like Randall and Rebecca had purposefully set out to buy the bullhorns with the intended purpose of sabotaging the other team. They were both after the same thing, and R&R just happened to stumble upon the bullhorns being pulled together for the other team.

If DT is going to fire people for being inexperienced, then don't bother bringing in 22-23 year old candidates.[/quote]
Agreed, jparnelle. Andy from S2 being the prime example. He is (in my mind, anyway) what a true “Apprentice” is: young, bright, articulate, yet inexperienced, and in need of someone to teach him the ropes.

Toral – all your mad job skilz and you’re trying to get a job by going on a game show? I mean…if you’re really that scary talented, shouldn’t your résumé be enough? Insufferable bitch…begone from my tv henceforth and ever more.

Jenthura: It was such a great experience. I was so glad to be here.

I’m just not sure whether to classify her interview as classy, or airhead.[/quote]
Airhead, tone. Definitely airhead.

The Manhattan of The Apprentice is a sad little backwater, isn't it? No Bedazzlers, and only 10 megaphones on the whole island. It's like Soviet Russia.[/quote]
And, as we all know, in Soviet Russia, bullhorn talks through you. <sorry...couldn't resist ... I'll show myself out now.>

natashapierre

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:16 pm

[quote]Randal and Rebecca had app. 40 more people than the other team, yet they won by only 5 calls. I[/quote]

Amen. And the person who seemed to have the very best grasp of what selling took was Felisha. ... Also, Felisha, Alla, and Adam did a lot of the selling on their own, and without megaphones. Rebecca and Randall didn't hustle nearly as much on their own behalf, although they did go with the better marketing plan. Of course, so did Felisha; she just got preempted by Adam, who was led down the garden path by the idea of those "wrap" ads, which tend to be considered as something you wrap around "big" things, llike buildings or buses.

[quote]Which makes me wonder...how the hell could Randal and Rebecca have won by only 5 calls if they had 4 times the man power on the streets?[/quote]

My guess is that Alla, Felisha, and Adam did a lot more selling personally and also pushed their hired staff harder to sell. One problem with sending the hired help all over the city is that Randall and Rebecca couldn't oversee them and encourage and push them to be pushier. If they just walked down the street with the signs on, they probably didn't bring in many calls -- a quiet person in a sandwich board is even less compelling than a carriage with an ad on it.

[quote]Rebecca and Randal got to Radio Shack first, and as the saying goes: You snooze, you loose.[/quote]

Of course, Alla and company *called* about megaphones way way way earlier than R&R did -- like, a whole day earlier. So it's not entirely clear just who was really snoozing here. In fact, I'd say the moral is kind of, snoozing and getting lucky sometimes pays off a lot better than not snoozing ...

[/QUOTE]To Trump, loyalty is paramount. Doing what Randal and Rebecca did doesn't even register on Trump's radar as important. Others, including me, are far more bothered by what R&R did than what Trump perceives as disloyalty.[QUOTE]

Hmmm...suggests that some people think in terms of ethics while Trump thinks in terms of law of the jungle. Or maybe law of the mob.

PinkyTuscadero

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:15 pm

Interesting theory! And it would make sense with what we know of Clay's vindictive personality.[/quote]

Except Randal took full responsibility for it and said he used the wqrong number.

I thought the public speaking coach Adam et al used was a hack. You never encourage someone giving a lecture or presentation to admit to feeling uneasy about a topic they on which they are lecturing. Adam telling Trump that he's been exceptional or performed exceptionally was quite a stretch.

I'm starting to think that it will be a Randal/Rebecca Final Two. It woudl make sense to keep her around if the goal was to ensure a Randal win.

ellisbell

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:21 pm

I assume the teams are given some kind of corporate credit card. I find it difficult to believe that temp agencies would accept thousands of dollars in cash for payments (or that they would assign workers without having gotten a credit card number from the organization requesting the staff).

The cell phones surprised me. If I were any of the teams, and I had cell phones at my disposal, I'd call all the people I know, give them the 800 number and ask that they call everyone they know, etc. Since the perfume sample is free, there's no reason why friends, family, and family of friends should hesitate to call. Granted it probably violates the rules and might involve a little stealth telephoning in the rest room, but it still could add to your total (besides in business it's not necessarily what you know so much as who you know).

I also wondered if Adam got the idea for the carriages from the ads on the pedicabs from season one.

Adam was cute and I'll miss him but he was no Andy. And in defense of my little brunette cutie, Rebecca knew exactly how to mend fences with Randal following the boardroom. Getting someone you just knicked in the back to agree to work hard along with you is as usable a business skill as being able to write a song.

2ys4me

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:28 pm

As stated up thread, once TD decided to keep Alla, sending her upstairs was the smartest move: she goes crazy not knowing what is going on the boardroom.

We now know Felisha has been flying under the radar with Alla, to some degree. It will be most interesting to hear how see reports/non-reports the events.

As for Carolyn, I too was taken aback with her calm, but somewhat crude/vitriolic statement regarding Adam and Felisha.

Actually, it's debatable in my mind's eye at this stage as to who is the weakest of the remaining 4, as Rebecca is a high contender (all hat, no cattle as we say in Texas). I agree that TD wanted Bill and Carolyn to force Adam and Felisha to fight for their spot in the final 4, but even so this was out of line.

But then, I also feel saying Randal "was this close to being fired last night" was just as out of line from TD. BTW, in the previous episode, when Rebecca stated she was "disappointed" and had expected better of Randal...I thought who made you Queen of TA you two time loser(then I remembered, TD did)?

TD talks about ethics and loyalty, but in reality he has skewed definitions

ETA:

And speaking of faking it, Felisha proved Carolyn's assessment of her correct simply by her reaction to it. "(gasp!) Ohhhhhhhh, seriously? Ohhhh, my God! (insert pearl-clutch.)" You think Randal would have reacted like that?

[/quote]

The thing is, Randal has been thrown off his stride in several Boardrooms, and while he has not responded like Felisha, his eyes have betrayed the shock and fear inside. He hasn't quickly redeemed himself, witness how Rebecca has laid him bare before TD, unchallenged to which TD called his performance "a firing offence".

I agree, to a point about Rebecca; however, TD has yet to really challenge her performance even though there have been good reasons to. She has yet to face the real Boardroom inquisition. Yes, she stood up for her belief on Toral, but that was a calculated risk and had nothing to do with her actual skills. I'm waiting for a real

Felisha has not been in the final Boardroom before, so I'm willing to ride to the next challenge and see if she has learned lesson.

phaedrus20

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:54 pm

I have been on the fence with Alla for a while. I think she's done some good things and is very smart.

While I agree that she made some very bad calls as PM this task, I don't agree she should have been sent home nor that Trump was too quick to let her leave the bedroom because he'd already made up his mind before they even got to the BR.

The reason I say this is because I think she deserves a lot of credit for the masterful way she dealt with her poor showing, while up in the suite. It was Machiavellian, brutal and brilliant.

She feeds Adam with ideas as to why it was a staffing problem and that was Felisha's fault,(even though clearly Felisha pushed for more of the budget to get more people and understood exactly what needed to be done to win - and believe me I'm no Felisha fan , but moreso now). So, even though it's a budgeting problem, she's turned it into Felisha didn't do a good enough job.

Then she talks to Felisha about the problem with the carriages, i.e. Adam's idea so his fault. Again, she as PM accepts the lousy idea and puts too much of the budget to it, but now the failure is on Adam.

Beautifully set up. In the BR, the now inevitable happens as Adam and Felisha put the blame on each other, Felisha, especially, never defends herself adequately even though on this one task she had the best approach and could have easily blamed the budgeting.

Not a single word against Alla. That is why Trump sent her up to the suite. As he said, it was obvious she wasn't going home. Not because it was pre-determined, but because noone laid a glove to her, and that was her own doing, by her earlier manipulations.

I have to admire that. And her stripper background doesn't bother me. More credit to her to get to where she now is.

Edited for spelling.

CheekyCricket

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:56 pm

If I were Shania, I would be pissed off if I knew that the people I had hired were not really representing my perfume well, but merely trying to fill their share of the quota.[/quote]
I don't blame the teams for that, because the task itself wasn't designed to represent the product well. The goal was almost primitive in its simplicity--trying to get as many phone calls as possible--which can quickly degenerate into pushy, loud-mouthed hucksterism. (The "wrapping" element of the task seemed to get dropped by the wayside.) With that goal in mind, I don't see how it would be possible to do a good job of representing the product. Perhaps the hope is that a sizable percentage of the callers will try the perfume samples, love it and buy it. That's all I could figure.

As for Carolyn, I too was taken aback with her calm, but somewhat crude/vitriolic statement regarding Adam and Felisha.[/quote]
Yes, I usually take her more caustic comments in stride, but I didn't think either of them had performed so badly that they deserved that kind of vehement dismissal. Especially since the winning margin was five votes. Not five hundred votes, five votes, despite Excel's much larger street force. Sheesh, you'd think it was a blowout, the way Carolyn, Bill and Trump talked. Their reaction was oddly distorted, it seemed to me. The episode left a bad taste in my mouth.

davidcalgary29

Nov 25, 2005 @ 4:01 pm

If I may say so, the concept for this challenge sucked. I personally found the advertisement campaign extremely irritating, and would certainly have called in to one of those 1-800 numbers if accosted by a bullhorn on the street...to complain. I mean, who knows if those people were calling in to receive a free sample, or just to kvetch? None of those New Yorkers looked like they really wanted a sample of some crap perfume, and probably know that they could get one much, much more quickly just by walking into Macy's.

I certainly think that the goal should have been a tally of positive responses to the campaign blitz, and not just total phone calls. It's certainly possibly that Randal and Rebecca just annoyed more people, which would not be good for the bottom line.

memememe76

Nov 25, 2005 @ 4:16 pm

I don't watch this show too often but I'm Canadian and this was the only new show on last night (Happy Thanksgiving, Americans!). So, I never heard of the concept of "wrapping" until it was explained by Donald, but I don't think the groups did this, right? Except for the horse carriages.

I missed seeing the horse carriages and apparently they sucked. But R&R won by five calls, despite having 4 times the manpower. So, perhaps having those annoying people on the street (I thought New Yorkers were better able to withstand such tactics!) wasn't that great a tactic. Maybe it was those damn evil horse carriages that motivated people to call?

I don't know, but I'm always amazed people buy these products or make these phone calls.

Dang Surly

Nov 25, 2005 @ 4:22 pm

Would it have been possible to just use the money and hire people to call that number all day? If they just used the number of people calling to determine the winner, would they get away with this. If they only counted the calls that were completed orders (with address) to determine the winners, they could have done the same thing, but used a phone book and had their workers go down a page each and just use that info when they called.

I could not understand why Felicia was taking so much heat for not hiring enough workers, she only had so much money to work with and with Adam blowing 6,000 on the caraiges. Alla even told her they had enough money for 15 workers and that is what she got. That was also a smart move from Alla to let people use her cell phone to order the samples. [/quote]
They were stuck on the fact that she should have been able to get one or two more people out of the money she used. That she should have been able to bargain to get more people out of the money she was allotted. Never realizing that she probably did bargain and get as many people as she could with the money she had.

They focused on getting more out of your money, than the fact that she did and just didn't have any more money to hire more. Plus Alla discarded alot of people that Felisha did get, that could have 5 calls there.

lawri

Nov 25, 2005 @ 4:25 pm

I have to add my voice to scream, "they lost by five calls, dammit!!!" Given that they had one fourth the person-power, and that ridiculous horse-drawn carriage idea, I think Alla, Adam and Felisha did pretty well!!! Randal and Rebecca should be thanking their lucky stars. I don't know why, but I just don't like Rebecca. She's been nothing but hardworking and fairly effective, but there is just something about those crutches. Why doesn't she have a walking cast? Randal seemed a little less noble after I saw the little "outtake" between him and Marshawn over who was going to "teach the class," but overall, he is still the best "guy" (oh, he's the only guy left!!!)

And that's because Adam had to be fired. To quote Martha, he just "doesn't fit in." I think Trump can't deal with a "good boy" type like Adam, and would rather have a tough-cookie type like Alla. (I confess, she's been my fave since the beginning.) Trump's a dog, let's face it.

Anyway, I think it is completely inappropriate to rag on Adam's virginity while "featuring" the Bimboy's crush on Jenthura. Both topics should be "off limits" for the show. No one signs on to discuss whether he or she is a virgin, and sexual experience is completely irrelevant to whether someone can lead. It isn't effective as sensationalism, IMHO, to embarass someone as sweet as Adam, or to show 45 seconds of sexual tension with that fired rat bastard Josh's commentary as background.

Poor Adam. His big mistake was not challenging the group about "sex in the workplace" -- the dumbest concept on record (beat out only by, green with envy [no question mark].) Oh well, maybe he was toast the moment he failed to raise his hand. I liked the clip show better than the Shania Perfume show because the clips revealed why the ones who are gone are actually gone. How on earth did they ever pick that other Jen or Markus in the first place?

holdfast

Nov 25, 2005 @ 4:35 pm

I also was not at all surprised that nobody in the boardroom--Trump or viceroys had any problem with it. I really didn't think they would have.[/quote]

I was really curious to see for TD would react - I thought he'd be cool with the caper, but he can be mercurial - and that unpredicability is one of the very few suspense genarators on the show.

Also, I think that Felisha did have the budget to hire at least 20 temps - but she couldn't get that many "good" ones. Adam needed to make this point more clearly - that Felisha's budget was adequate, but she couldn't execute. It would have been a somewhat disengenous argument, but not wholly untrue and really Adam's best shot.

I do think Felisha deserved to say. But her boardroom performance was not very good. Especially her gasp/laugh when Carolyn said that she and Adam were the weakest left. That was almost as bad as Randal's facial expressions last week.[/quote]

Funny thing is, Felisha is a lot stronger on tasks than Rebecca - she actually wins! Rebecca is just good in the Boardroom.

Adam was going to be fired no matter what. (unless Felisha pulled an Alla and did a table dance for DT, Bill and Carolyn) [/quote]

And that would be a firing offence exactly how??? : )

catnip

Nov 25, 2005 @ 4:57 pm

I can't decide whether I think Felisha should have been able to hire more temps or not. Randal probably spent close to $10,000 and hired 60 temps, so he probably paid around $160 per temp. If Felisha had gotten the same price, she would have been able to hire 25 for $4000. On the other hand, Felisha's temps had to work more hours, because they had to wrap the carriages before hitting the streets with the sandwich boards.

She really should have brought that up in the boardroom -- not only did she have a relatively small budget for temps, but part of what she did get for the temps went into implementing Adam's carriage plan.

Sunidesus

Nov 25, 2005 @ 5:04 pm

CheekyCricket

Nov 25, 2005 @ 5:07 pm

If I may say so, the concept for this challenge sucked. I personally found the advertisement campaign extremely irritating, and would certainly have called in to one of those 1-800 numbers if accosted by a bullhorn on the street...to complain. [/quote]
I thought this was the worst task so far this season. The "wrapping" aspect was the only mildly creative part, meaning the part calling for some creativity, and that apparently didn't weigh into the victory. (Which begs the question, to me at least, of why the poor wrap job on the carriages mattered, since it wasn't part of the judging criteria anyway.) The rest was based on who could hound and cajole the most people into calling the 800 number. Marketing at its most base, unimaginative and uninspired level. Blecch!!!

. . . I certainly think that the goal should have been a tally of positive responses to the campaign blitz, and not just total phone calls.[/quote]
That might have motivated the teams to come up with better promotional strategies, rather than what they arrived at. I don't see that Excel has much to crow about, since even with the advantage gained through their "sabotage," they didn't do much better. They did win, so they get to take home the victory, but I found their approach pretty danged unimpressive.

lauriecake

Nov 25, 2005 @ 5:19 pm

Clay cooked her breakfast for her every day! Fascinating.[/quote]

I wonder if he poisoned it or spit in it. Wouldn't put it past him. [/quote]

When Alla mentioned that little fact, I immediately thought that she was one of the last people that should eat Clay's breakfast.

I was not surprised when CE got slammed in the boardroom, even though they only five calls. They were hard on Pamela for losing the QVC task by ten dollars. That's not to say I wasn't happy about it. I thought, considering it all, losing by five calls to a team who had more people was really impressive.

Summa

Nov 25, 2005 @ 5:31 pm

I don't think that Martha would have been upset if Excel pulled the megaphone caper on her show. They had insider information and used it. She had insider information and used it. Unfortunately for her, her insider information was a bit illegal to use.

With regard to Bill's lack of moral outrage on the megaphone caper, I liken it to the casino task on which he was project manager. He negotiated that his team would approach the VIPs, and he didn't like it when the other team tried to encroach on his territory. Of course, he was aware of the situation and put the kabosh on it immediately.

I have to admit that not only did I LOVE the megaphone caper, but I probably would have done it myself. Modifying what others have said, whenever I've placed something on hold, the stores only hold it for a specified amount of time. If you don't pick it up by then, buh-bye. Additionally, are all the team members tied at the hips? Are they allowed only one cab per team? Couldn't one of CE's team members pick up the megaphones so that they got them right away?

Finally, in defense of Bill Rancic, I feel that he's really grown up. The first time he temped for George, he was very shy, but now he acts like he really does deserve to be there. (Although yes, you can make a shot game out of step-up and variations. I think that I'll do that next week.)

davidcalgary29

Nov 25, 2005 @ 5:32 pm

was not surprised when CE got slammed in the boardroom, even though they only five calls. They were hard on Pamela for losing the QVC task by ten dollars. That's not to say I wasn't happy about it. I thought, considering it all, losing by five calls to a team who had more people was really impressive. [/quote]

CE actually had more people than Excel, though.

My personal theory: DT would have found a way to fire Adam even if CE had won the task. He clearly wanted a Randal (Rebecca) vs. Alla (Felisha) showdown, and I don't think that Adam could fit into these plans. I think that, if CE had received more calls, CE would have been blamed for attracting fewer calls on a per capita basis, or being outsmarted with the bullhorns, or wrapping the carriages in an unappealing manner. The fact that CE did all this and lost just made the decision that much easier.

LadyKenobi

Nov 25, 2005 @ 5:35 pm

RE: Shania-ho's hat... Yes, ladies are permitted to leave our hats on at the table, but she was wearing a cowboy hat, which meant she was attempting to evoke some sort of Western elan. Therefore, you play by a cowboy's rules, which means... no freaking hats at the dinner table. When I worked at a ranch in Colorado, that's the first thing we did when we came in to eat: The hats hit the pegs on the wall. However, since this woman is about as authentically country as a toy poodle, she wouldn't know that. Take your one-and-a-half note vocal range and shove it up your pink three-quarter-inch sleeve, Eileen.

And speaking of faking it, Felisha proved Carolyn's assessment of her correct simply by her reaction to it. "(gasp!) Ohhhhhhhh, seriously? Ohhhh, my God! (insert pearl-clutch.)" You think Randal would have reacted like that? She reminded me of my students who suddenly learn that an essay is due. "Oh, really? Well, I didn't know. You announced it seventeen times in the past two weeks? Really? Wow, I must have missed that..."

lauriecake

Nov 25, 2005 @ 5:40 pm

CE actually had more people than Excel, though.[/quote]
I should have made that statement with more clarity. I meant that Excel sixty temps as opposed to CE's fifteen.

And speaking of faking it, Felisha proved Carolyn's assessment of her correct simply by her reaction to it. "(gasp!) Ohhhhhhhh, seriously? Ohhhh, my God! (insert pearl-clutch.)" You think Randal would have reacted like that?[/quote]
ITA. Rebecca may have a losing record, but if anyone accused her of being the weakest person there, she would have never reponsed like that. She would have presented some sort of case with a straight face, as would Randal and Alla. Felisha crumbled as soon as she heard that, which proved that she's one of the weakest players there.

benrod1

Nov 25, 2005 @ 5:58 pm

I don't think that Martha would have been upset if Excel pulled the megaphone caper on her show. They had insider information and used it. She had insider information and used it. Unfortunately for her, her insider information was a bit illegal to use.[/quote]

This myth about Martha always ticks me off. And I'm not even a fan of Martha Stewart.

Martha was not convicted of insider trading. She was never charged with insider trading. She was charged and convicted of lying to a federal agent and obstruction of justice. Basically because the government didnt believe her story, or her broker's story, they charged her with lying to agents and for conspriacy to coverup a "crime" they knew they couldnt prove was even illegal.

Lisetta

Nov 25, 2005 @ 6:21 pm

Would it have been possible to just use the money and hire people to call that number all day? If they just used the number of people calling to determine the winner, would they get away with this.[/quote]
This thread has certainly come up with a lot more creative ways to generate calls (which, after all, was actually the task), than any of the candidates did.

How many products have one or both of these teams actually turned people off of?

And they spent $20,000 over 8 hours and only got 2,000 people to call in for free samples of the perfume? If those are the right numbers...that's pathetic.

Maybe Shania kept her hat on in the hope she won't be recognized for being any part of TA. There certainly wasn't any good hype for her perfume from this show (and I couldn't believe that NO ONE EVER SAID HOW NICE THE FRAGRANCE WAS--not even R/R at the very special, very painfully uncomfortable, "date with Shania"!)

She got no good publicity from doing this at all. In fact, my only association with her perfume from this task is an image of somewhat uncouth people yelling in the street. And horses. Not exactly a "perfume image".

Alla reminds me of Pamazon, except much more capable. She's quite a manager, very professional, not at all flirtatious or "sexy/cute" despite her past profession.

Trump will never hire her. Not in a million years.

Cheynem

Nov 25, 2005 @ 6:41 pm

ITA on Felicia's bad boardroom ability. The strangest thing about it is when Trump asked Felicia initially about acquiring more labor, she said in this resigned voice, "Just didn't think of it, sir." This is patently untrue--the team had wanted to obtain more labor, Felicia herself had wanted to get more labor, and she had a very valid reason why more labor was impossible (spending on carriages). It is not only untrue, but it is a untruth that doesn't even help her.

What was she trying to do? Did she think that by trying to stress the issue she would put a target on her back? Did she hope someone else (Alla) would bring up the carriage issue? She just seemed weirdly tentative at the beginning.

Adam's reasons for staying were vague as hell, but what was he supposed to say? He did a good job of at least staying cognizant.

Zmeister

Nov 25, 2005 @ 6:53 pm

I wonder what exactly were the ground rules regarding call-ins. Presumably, the apprentiwannabees could not call the number themselves and give random names and addresses out of the phone book, since they would more than likely be caught. But since they were allowed to loan their phones, why couldn't they simply ask people, including the temps, to simply keep calling the number(s) and request samples for themselves and all their friends? It's not as if the telemarketers would call back to verify. Also, would the apprenti have been allowed to pay people to call? This task seemingly had way too issues with keeping an "accurate" count. And what is this task, this late in the game, supposed to demonstrate about the apprenti?

quaintirene

Nov 25, 2005 @ 6:54 pm

Were any of the temps and/or team members in, say, Times Square or running down the line waiting for the elevators at the Empire State Building? I didn't see them go for tourists and I don't understand why not.

gavagai

Nov 25, 2005 @ 6:54 pm

But CE chose to have fewer people (and more horses). If the task had been to get the most calls per person, then their approach of quality (they at least appeared to be doing more screening) over quantity (fewer hired) would have gotten them a win. But the task was actually to get the most phone calls to a given number during a set period, and this wasn't a secret.

"We made a crucial mistake, but having made that mistake we actually did a lot to mitigate the damage" is more impressive than "We made a crucial mistake, and we never did manage to even kind of recover" but it's not nearly as impressive as not making the mistake in the first place. I did not find the team's performance impressive.

I'm not a big fan of Felisha's, but it seems as if Alla and Adam were mostly responsible for the mistake (I do think Felisha could have argued better against the mistake, though, and that she was trying to set Alla and Adam up to take the heat if they lost) and Felisha was mostly responsible for the mitigation; and if the goal had been anything other than to ensure that Alla made final four, Felisha should have been the one sent back to the suite. While Adam really never seemed to me to fully grasp what the mistake was, I thought Alla was setting things up from the outset so that it would be Felisha versus Adam in the Boardroom rather than really thinking about how to ensure that the Boardroom would be Randal versus Rebecca. Alla has impressed me more than Adam overall and Adam really should have grasped that wrapping was only a gimmick in this task, but I think Alla committed a firing offense there and I don't think Trump and the viceroys somehow didn't notice it. I don't have a lot of respect for individual team members trying to set themselves up so that someone else will take the fall if they lose rather than going for the win; I don't have any respect at all for the project manager doing it.

You know, when I started writing this post I was okay with Trump sending Alla up, and now I've completely argued myself out of it. So much for firm convictions.

jesus206

Nov 25, 2005 @ 7:00 pm

I agree with those who think the reason why team of Two Blondes and Adam came so close was because they pretty much personally hustled maybe 100 customers(it's not that tough) into making the calls right then and there. I certainly don't think they managed their 15 temps better. There is a good thing about this strategy. You try to close most sales at the point of exposure. The longer a potential customer waits, the less likely they are going to follow through. However, there was a bad component to their strategy in terms of becoming the final Apprentice(has no bearing on this task alone as their goal is to collect as many calls for free sample) - this was not good effective marketing. All they did was just get a lead, but most likely a bad lead.

Having said that, if I were Randall, I would have subtly asked the temp agency to send out maybe 10 good looking female temps to complement 40 or so temps instead.and pay them a little bit more and have the average joe temps be the supporting cast in areas patrolled by the attractive female. Or even have some smooth males smoozing with the females in high density areas.

I too think nothing wrong with the megaphone incident because Randall didn't call himself Adam.

Rebecca is the least accomplished of the four and is more booksmart than someone who can excel in a Trump like environment. Not that I dont find her to be the hottest Apprentice with the shiniest black hair ever. Her audition video made her look to me more of a party girl than I expected, but that's OK, that means she is probably hotter in bed.

ChesireCat

Nov 25, 2005 @ 7:21 pm

I too think nothing wrong with the megaphone incident because Randall didn't call himself Adam.[/quote]

I actually thought that stealing the megaphones was very smart on their part... but I also thought that it was amazing, of all the people on the show, that they thought of it. Rebecca and Randal always struck me as the two goody-goodies of the show and would never do that. After they stole the megaphones, I spent the episode worrying about what Trump`s reaction would be becuase I would`ve been very dissapointed if they fired for it. And like jesus206 said, they weren`t really in the wrong.

meowing

Nov 25, 2005 @ 7:24 pm

Oh God. . .poor Adam. "Raise your hand if you've had sex?" How icky.[/quote]

So it turns out Adam is only 22. The show a couple of weeks ago made it sound like he was Steve Carell's 40 year old virgin.

Carriages? Ugh. And an 800 number? That's so 1988. Why not use the internet? The whole task and the reward were just meh.

I flip-flopped on the bullhorn issue. At first I was really upset because I thought that it was unethical. Then I realized that hello, it's a competitition.

The situation would have been different if someone not related to TA actually had those bullhorns reserved.

That being said, if it were me, I would have played fair and not taken the bullhorns. I guess that's why I'm not .... The Apprentice.

auntiemame

Nov 25, 2005 @ 7:31 pm

There were some questions upthread about why Felisha didn't mention in the BR that she was constrained by the misallocation of the budget -- or at least didn't drive the point home enough. IMO she kept quiet because she was protecting her Bloven leader, Alla.

....and Alla was, of course, politically brilliant in this episode as all others. I don't think she necessarily deserved to be fired -- Adam was so, so weak. She simply asked her team for good ideas. Adam told about his with great passion, and Felisha did not seem as passionate in arguing her point. Alla, like many bosses, gave the most leeway to the person who seemed to have the most dedication to his idea. She bought into his passion: "If you feel it, run with it," she said. The fact that Adam was fired because his idea was ineffective was perfectly right, I believe. People complain when the boss takes credit for their good ideas, right? So IMO they shouldn't complain when the boss doesn't take the fall for their "good" ideas as well. Adam would have complained mightily that his idea was shot down if Alla didn't use it. As the chief proponent of the carriage strategy, he should have been extremely careful about its execution, and he was not. He was sloppy and childish, IMO.

As for Shania: I wonder what her perfume smells like? Opportunistic washed-out whore? Her image -- wrapping "women as sex objects" in the guise of feminism and female power -- has disgusted me for years. I remember reading somewhere that she has social anxiety -- except, apparently, when marrying ugly music producers who can advance her career -- which may account for her terrible awkwardness with the Apprenti.

I'm rooting for Randal. Beneficial editing aside, he really does seem to have a tremendous amount of competence. And I noticed that all the shots of Rebecca made her look really wack. The puffy face, the thick makeup...bad lighting throughout.

growsonwalls

Nov 25, 2005 @ 7:42 pm

That felt like the most contrived, rehearsed comments I've ever seen in the boardroom. It felt, to me, that Carolyn had been instructed to go after one candidate (perhaps, specifically Felisha), while Boyfriend Bill was to play Devil's Advocate and pick on Adam - and that Trump had already decided to keep Alla, so nobody was going to pick on her. It never seemed sincere on Carolyn's part. At least, that is the way it appeared to me.
[/quote]

WORD to the nth on that. At this point, I pretty much disregard everything Trump, Carolyn, or Bill say. Only George seems to shoot straight from the hip.
The other thing I think is important to remember is that boardrooms apparently last for hours, and on tv we're only shown at most 10 minutes. I think MB likes the idea of a blond (Carolyn) going after a blond (Felisha). It makes good ratings -- meow! Just a few weeks ago, Carolyn REALLY went after Markus, calling his strategy the "cover your ass" strategy. But that didnt get nearly as "emphasized" in the editting. For all we know, Carolyn could have totally dismissed Adam too. But MB chooses the bits he thinks will up ratings.

JennaC

Nov 25, 2005 @ 7:47 pm

I agree with those who think the reason why team of Two Blondes and Adam came so close was because they pretty much personally hustled maybe 100 customers(it's not that tough) into making the calls right then and there.[/quote]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but they got wrapped on the hands for their approach in the uncut boardroom scenes. Bill mentioned that he was uncomfortable with their approach. Alla emphasized that they were competing to get the most phone calls. Caroline countered with they lowered Shania's reputation with their strategy.

Actually, I think Shania's reputation was lowered when they decided to use "wrapping" to promote her product. Horse carriages and bill boards on the street, WTF. As said earlier, internet banner advertising would have been better advertising.

SchoolofRock

Nov 25, 2005 @ 7:52 pm

That being said, if it were me, I would have played fair and not taken the bullhorns. I guess that's why I'm not .... The Apprentice.[/quote]

Same for me, personally I wouldn't have done it. I don't think R&R are evil monsters for having taken advantage of the situation, especially in light of the fact that those kind of tactics are endorsed by The Donald. Still, I'm of the mind that it was a pretty shady thing to do, which caused Rebecca's toast about winning with "honor and respect" (or words to that effect) to bug me. Because they did win but what they did wasn't honorable, so shut it Rebecca.

I loved the clip show! I could watch hours of Markus out-takes, he's absolutely mental, isn't he? He really believes Trump was threatened by him...I'll give Markus that Trump might covet that head of hair but that's about it. Loved/cringed at the "Raise your hand if you have had sex before" scene. And the Pillsbury degree-off btw Marshawn and Randal was very funny.

natashapierre

Nov 25, 2005 @ 7:51 pm

And they spent $20,000 over 8 hours and only got 2,000 people to call in for free samples of the perfume? If those are the right numbers...that's pathetic.[/quote]

True, I guess ....But I keep wondering: How many people actually want *Shania Twain* *Coty* perfume? .How many people in *New York* want it? I'm not sure I'd hand out my address to get it -- it doesn't seem very promising as a product, to me, anyway!

scarletsmith

Nov 25, 2005 @ 7:56 pm

....and Alla was, of course, politically brilliant in this episode as all others. I don't think she necessarily deserved to be fired -- Adam was so, so weak. She simply asked her team for good ideas. Adam told about his with great passion, and Felisha did not seem as passionate in arguing her point. Alla, like many bosses, gave the most leeway to the person who seemed to have the most dedication to his idea. She bought into his passion: "If you feel it, run with it," she said. The fact that Adam was fired because his idea was ineffective was perfectly right, I believe. People complain when the boss takes credit for their good ideas, right? So IMO they shouldn't complain when the boss doesn't take the fall for their "good" ideas as well. Adam would have complained mightily that his idea was shot down if Alla didn't use it. As the chief proponent of the carriage strategy, he should have been extremely careful about its execution, and he was not. He was sloppy and childish, IMO.[/quote]

Are you me? This was exactly the reason I thought Adam should have been fired, and why I think Alla got sent back to the suite. From what we saw, the problem essentially came down to whether Adam or Felicia executed their sides of the task better, neither of which was necessarily under Alla's control. When there's only three people on the task, it comes down to a divide-and-conquer effort, and the responsibilities were pretty clearly delineated here--Adam was to wrap the vehicles, Felicia was to get the people (and remember, she did ask for specific types of people and was essentially delivered practically the exact opposite of what she wanted, something out of her control), and Alla was to handle the budget and anything not covered by Adam and Felicia. Now, considering that they only lost by 5 calls, they obviously managed to recover from the situation pretty well, and if they'd managed to make just 6 more calls, Rebecca and Randal would have been trying to explain how, with far more people and CE's bullhorns, they could possibly have lost.

That said, Alla's reputation did take a hit in this task and it will be interesting to see if she makes it to the interview round.

mrcoffee42

Nov 25, 2005 @ 8:17 pm

Fukui San

I have a different view of the bullhorn incident than most others. It was never honorable, ethical, or whatever, but I never doubted for a second that Trump would love it. This is a man who labels apartment on the 24th floor as "30th floor" apartments so that he charge more rent from them, and who designed a hard to reach "public plaza" in Trump Tower so that he'd be allowed to build a taller building. He's all about using questionably ethical tricks to make money. If the other team had won by five calls and Rebecca and Randall complained about them forcing the cell phones on passerby, he would have no problem with that either.[/quote]

Trump is pulling the same tricks in Phoenix right now. He is trying to build a high-rise in an area where the building codes don't allow it tall enough for him. He managed to convince the city council to change the rules so he can make his building taller, but the local homeowners are pissed about their view getting blocked. They tried to organize a campaign to get the issue on the ballot for voters to decide. But Trump went out and hired ALL of the companies whose business is collecting signatures from voters. So the homeowners could not hire anyone to help them collect signatures. So, yeah, that R&R ploy was definitely up Trump's alley.

Swell Baby

Nov 25, 2005 @ 8:19 pm

A lot of people have commented on the painfully awkward "reward". One thing I was wondering last night was whether Rebecca and particularly Randall have the schmoozing skills to be mini-Trumps. I kept picturing Alla in that reward instead, chatting up Shania.

I actually thought that stealing the megaphones was very smart on their part... but I also thought that it was amazing, of all the people on the show, that they thought of it. Rebecca and Randal always struck me as the two goody-goodies of the show and would never do that. [/quote]

Interesting...I have thought that Rebecca was downright cut-throat for a long time now. Goody-goody is one word (or is that two?) that would never come to my mind for her.

Canaduck

Nov 25, 2005 @ 10:01 pm

IMO [Felisha] kept quiet because she was protecting her Bloven leader, Alla.[/quote]
I was one of those questioning her weak defense. Your theory makes sense, auntiemame.

I remember reading somewhere that [Shania] has social anxiety [...] which may account for her terrible awkwardness with the Apprenti.[/quote]
That's what I was thinking, too. IIRC, she wouldn't tour for a long time at the beginning of her career because of that.

tjmor

Nov 25, 2005 @ 10:16 pm

And they spent $20,000 over 8 hours and only got 2,000 people to call in for free samples of the perfume? If those are the right numbers… that's pathetic.[/quote]

Yes, it is embarrassing and pathetic.

Slightly off topic. I recall an article stating that the show charges $5 MLN for a full episode of advertising. I don't know how much Shania paid them to promote her new parfume, but if $20K and some change is all they spent, that's a great money earning deal for DT, Burnett and Co.

Batrochides

Nov 25, 2005 @ 10:17 pm

The clip show, and this week's task, didn't do Randal any favors...yes, he got the win, but by only five calls, when he had the megaphones and the manpower advantages over Capital Edge? This unimpressive win, coupled with more info on just how badly he'd screwed up the Jide poster, has caused his stock to take a beating; he's still the front-runner, but he's no longer the Golden Boy for Trump.

Still, with a 3-0 PM record vs. Alla's 1-1--and beating Alla head-to-head--Randal has now provided Trump with sufficient cover to hire him no matter the observed outcome of the final task. Unless he sleeps through the task in a drunken stupor, Randal should carry the win, when Trump can simply point at the win-loss records of his rival.

Trump sending Alla upstairs was quite mystifying; since when did the PM not have to stand around for the final BR even pro forma? With her absence, it made questioning Felisha and Adam about the relative merits of the budgeting priorities to be useless, since Alla was presumably the ultimate authority on signing off on both carriage and sandwich board plans, and in no sense could the arguing between Adam and Felisha be considered illuminating without Alla's input. Very, very strange.

Still, since Alla was send out of the room before the battle went to the nitty-gritty, the favorable working relationship between Alla and Felisha was preserved for at least another task. I don't know if that was intended by Trump or not.

The fact that the loss was by only five callers might actually have a silver lining for Alla and Felisha, at least insofar as they rate in Trump's mind. Since it appeared that the reason that the tallies were so close, was because Alla and Felisha's plan B was to work their hinders off by going retail and face-to-face with potential callers, convincing each of them to take a few moments to support the cause. That kind of "in the trenches" work ethic impresses Trump, and he prefers it to the analytical but rather more hands-off approach symbolized by Adam's performance.

Carolyn was uncomprisingly dead-set against retaining Felisha, and Trump came closest to openly blowing her off by tossing Adam.

memememe76

Nov 25, 2005 @ 10:24 pm

I must ask this: there were a total of 10 bullhorns in all of New York City? Really? Best Buy didn't have any?

sesstr

Nov 25, 2005 @ 10:28 pm

There is a difference between being persistent and being unethical. Allowing the use of your cell phone in order to advance is persistence. Impersonating your competition in order to win is unethical. [/quote]

Excellent point!

Randal & Rebecca's action was a plain lie as defined in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. Whether they said "we're the colleagues of the people who reserved" or "we're here to pick up the horns" doesn't matter one bit. They gave the impression to the Radio Shack staff that they were the people who reserved the horns, and that was an outright lie. This is no different than one of the Apprentice competitors pretending someone else's idea/work is his/her own.

Alla having people dial on her phone was by contrast not violating any rule of the game, nor misleading anyone. Had she dialed in and given phony addresses, or her own address, that would be unethical. But she simply made it easier for passer-bys to call. After all, the point was to 1) call the 800 number and 2) give a name and address. People were giving their names and addresses, not hers. There was no rule that said what phone ought to be used. No lie here.

I think Trump has seriously damaged his already shady reputation by commending Randal and Rebecca. Anything he has said or will say about integrity is null and void - at least as far as I'm concerned.

As far as availability of bullhorns, as some posters have already stated, surely Radio Shack is not the only place to have it. There must be places that rent them, and if all else fails, there must be toys that amplify the voice. Or, they could have taped a marketing message and blast it on the street over and over.

I certainly agree that the horse-drawn carriage idea was awful. At first it sounded interesting, because I thought the "wrapping" would be full-body of the carriage, and that it would be done professionally. It could have been done much better.

But what about other ideas? What about a huge bottle of perfume to draw people's attention? I agree with a previous poster who suggested that better looking & more stylish people could have made a big difference. Perfume and other utterly unnecessary but desirable things are usually packaged in very attractive designs. It is all about the package, the design, the store where it is sold, the people selling. It is very possible passer-bys would have been much more intrigued by good-looking cowboys and cowgirls (with Stetson hats and boots). Lots of things sell because people think by having them they'll look as good as the person presenting the item.

About Alla and Felicia - I'm glad Alla didn't turn against Felicia more than she did. It would have been ugly after their season-long friendship. But I feel Alla cannot win in the popularity sweepstakes - she seems to be perceived by the others as calculating and ruthless. If she turns against Adam, she's forming a clique with a hapless 'sorority sister' against a 'nice guy'. And if she turns against Felicia, she's ruthlessly turning against her own 'friend'.

I firmly believe Alla would be a clear winner in this game if she was male. I mean, Randal hasn't demonstrated a small percentage of her guts, diplomacy and creativity.

GinaRomantica

Nov 25, 2005 @ 10:29 pm

I wish there had been some kind of rule that they had to wrap an object. That's the way Trump described the task - wrap an advertisement around a building, a vehicle, etc. Not PEOPLE. So disappointing.[/quote]

Quite a few posters have expressed the same disappointment. In the apprenti's defense, they didn't have time to get the necessary permits to wrap a building or bus or subway or anything belonging to NYC. (After all, it took Jeanne-Claude and Christo 25 years to get permission to wrap the Gates in Central Park.) I'm surprised that R&R had time to rent a van *and* have it wrapped so neatly.

Regarding Rebecca's involvement in the win, she seemed to have nada to say during the planning stages, and gave Randall only nods and monosyllables until the opportunity to filch the megaphones came up. She really does seem pallid unless she's in the boardroom.

welcomematt

Nov 25, 2005 @ 10:56 pm

legaleagle44

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:16 pm

If I were the candidates, I would have had a Shania Twain look-alike contest, and the winner got a free case of Shania's perfume. Although this obviously wouldn't directly be getting people to call the 800 number, it would have created interest; people would have come up, maybe, to see what was going on and anytime you have people approaching you, rather than you approaching them, you are going to sell more, give away more of what you want to give away, etc.[/quote]

Not a bad idea, welcomematt--so long as you don't let it distract the people you attract from the actual purpose of getting their attention to begin with (see the Dick's task and the Wishbone task on Martha's show and the Burger King task from Season 3.) The problem with getting "numbers" via such a gimmick is that teams in the past have tended to miss the point of getting the numbers in the first place, which is to get them to buy the specific item you are selling (in this case, a toll-free phone call for a free perfume sample.) The teams then are invariably shocked when they fail at the task and are reminded in the boardroom that the point of the task wasn't just to attract people's attention; it was to accomplish a specific goal with the people whose attention the team had attracted.

Keupi

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:23 pm

I usually pay little attention to the Trump Lesson of the Week yet I keep coming back to it with this task. This week, it was Confrontation. IIRC, while in his lesson he was at the point of lawsuit, there were so many instances of confrontation in the task episode.

In the post BR, Randal and Rebecca talking. In the task explanation, Randal was on 'the edge' of firing - should he or Rebecca have spoken up? With the labor vs. carriages, did Felisha fight for more of the budget (one less carriage = X more people)? With the megaphones lost, CE was confronted with a situation and just said oh well. CE again was confronted with an issue of the staff hired was not the initial staff desired - what was done with those available resources? In BR prep, Alla was confronted with 2 teammates going after the throat but why didn't either confront Alla with the resource/budget allocation? In the BR, Alla dealt with confrontation well but Felisha and Adam didn't. Carolyn confronted both with the fact she thought they were the weakest.

CE should have won. They lost by 5 calls. The issue wasn't even street-wise, it was if you successfully confronted the issues, you would have won. It wasn't you didn't win, but if you had only with this loss.

Given his lesson, and the action, I think the person who lost most this week was Randal. He's so sharp but he's been cited for lacking creativity and he really doesn't fight for himself. He's the ultimate Chief Operations Officer. But the tasks this season focus on creativity.

Alla can do both business and creativity. Felisha is a question-mark, definitely creative but the business factor remains to be seen. Rebecca does have a bit of both and doesn't make the same mistake twice. I also noticed that she acknowledged Randal's concerns about what she said in the previous BR, but also had that 'well, why didn't you say something then' look.

Jeebus Shuttlesworth

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:57 pm

Couldn't watch the episode last night, but thanks to Jacob's excellent (and super FAST!) recap, I'm all caught up.

I floved the bullhorn caper. It was dishonest, deceitful, and totally AWESOME. Nowhere in Sun Tzu's Art of War does it say, "Play fair." There is a large section about stealing your enemies' supplies, food, spies, and troops, though. I was surprised that Randall was the one to pull this off, but Luke Skywalker did force choke that one guard in Jabba's palace.

From everything that transpired in the boardroom, I think that next week's task will be "Something That Felisha Will Fail At." Like Passing For A Twenty-Five Year Old.

Trump: Well, how did our teams do?
Client: Both teams did well, Mr. Trump, but there was a clear winner. I mean, come on, do you expect us to believe that Leatherface here is less than 40?
Felisha: ... :(

Magsi2

Nov 26, 2005 @ 12:00 am

Last night's "real show" (I missed the clip) was kind of funny. I like the R & R megaphone gate. I kept laughing while Randal waited outside. I wasn't sure if he was holding the cab or on lookout until he clarified. I was glad to see that he went in to help her carry them out. It didn't seem that Rebecca did a whole lot during this task. Of course, that could have been editing at work. Randal made the calls, Randal came up with the ideas, Randal got the temps, Randal, Randal, Randal...... What did Rebecca do besides say that she was there to pick up the megaphones? BTW, I was quite OK with that. If RS didn't have a name or anything else to "hold" them, then I don't think it really mattered who wanted them. It was first come, first served. R & R just were lucky enough to get there first after stumbling onto their discovery! Like most others, I'm sure there have to have been more than just 10 in the city.

I did like that R & R met their workers at Coty to start the task. I think that looked much more professional than meeting them as did CE. I was unimpressed with the final results. As for CE bugging people....it is NY, but I would have avoided them. I didn't understand why Felisha didn't stand up for herself in the boardroom. Alla or no Alla, have they all gained selective memory loss syndrome (I just made that up, although it could be/possibly is real)? Felisha did argue for more help! Adam was the right choice to go this ep, but Felisha won't be there long.

Lambchop

Nov 26, 2005 @ 12:38 am

that anonymous black guy in the van with the megaphone who was holding conversations with people in upstairs windows of their apartment making sure they were calling for free perfume samples! He showed the most "energy" and "creativity" of anyone on the show tonight! [/quote]

Word! What I can't understand is, how R & R managed to get temps that were so much better than the ones Felisha hired! Especially that one black guy -- he was great!

I agree that Alla shouldn't have gotten a free pass. She was the PM, she had the final call on any and all decisions. Wrapping horse carriages? Those carriages looked so fugly and dumb! And as long as they're coming up with dumb ideas...why not just wrap the horses?

Alla's smart and very capable, but I think she blew it in this task and....I just don't like her!

I also agree that I don't have a problem with R & R taking the megaphones. They found out what their competition was doing, and found a way to undercut them. Yes, it's rough, but R & R simply outsmarted CE. Adam, next time leave your name and pay up front.

Alla -- with a past like your's -- maybe you shouldn't mention anything about karma.

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