TWoP Forums > 4-10: "Clip Show"/"Shaniagans" 2005.11.24

Full Version: 4-10: "Clip Show"/"Shaniagans" 2005.11.24

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Fukui San

Nov 25, 2005 @ 10:49 am

I have a different view of the bullhorn incident than most others. It was never honorable, ethical, or whatever, but I never doubted for a second that Trump would love it. This is a man who labels apartment on the 24th floor as "30th floor" apartments so that he charge more rent from them, and who designed a hard to reach "public plaza" in Trump Tower so that he'd be allowed to build a taller building. He's all about using questionably ethical tricks to make money. If the other team had won by five calls and Rebecca and Randall complained about them forcing the cell phones on passerby, he would have no problem with that either.

I'm glad that there will be a task next week. The interview round is my most hated part of the Apprentice, so having only one elimination due to it is better than two.

highlander

Nov 25, 2005 @ 10:59 am

Someone standing on the street next to a bunch of payphones with flyers with the number on it handing out cash ($2 to $5, say) to people [/quote]

I don't think there are too many payphones left in NYC. If there are, most of them don't work. I think Alla was justified in using her phone to get people to call. If people don't have a cell phone and want the free sample, it would be crazy to just let them walk away. The task ended at 4 PM. These people would not have been able to call when they got home. Since the cameras were on them the entire time, Alla would not have made the calls without there being people to give their addresses. The task was getting the most amount of phonecalls to that 800 number so people could get free samples. The marketing aspect came in, I am assuming, that when people received their free sample they would love it and buy more when their sample ran out and tell their friends and family about how great the product is. It was supposed to be a "word of mouth" kind of marketing.

Culturemaven

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:17 am

The clip show? HI-larious. Loved it. Totally changed my view of Marshawn, and reaffirmed my dislike of Markus and Toral (who, as others have mentioned upthread, are the mayor and chief constable of Delusionville). I wish the actual shows showed some of those scenes. It just highlights how manipulated we are by the editing. But I still think we see the true person by the end.

The task - I LOVED Trump fakely yelling about suing someone fakely into his fake telephone. That was awesome, man.

I thought Randal and Rebecca were sort of brilliant for taking the megaphones. I think they felt on a level it was sort of unfair, but they did stumble across it. It wasn't like it was corporate espionage. And I thought the carriages were a terrible idea on Adam's part, but he sold it really well to Alla.

That said, I thought Adam deserved to go. I think Felisha is way smarter than we see, but I think she's weak in the boardroom because she doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. She could have defended herself more vigorously, I think. I think Rebecca is like Nick - all flash but there's nothing there. I think she's brilliant in the boardroom, but she's weak on task.

As to execution, I think the tactic of having people with sandwich boards and megaphones would only work in New York. Certainly in DC we'd all avoid them like the plague and be sort of embarrased they were making such a commotion. But New York seems to absorb and accept spectacle stuff like that a lot more easily.

A good final four. I'll be interested to see who Trump thinks is too weak next week.

CurryMasala

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:21 am

Fukui San,

ITA. I was not sure what to make of the bullhorn incident - it seemed very unethical, but in competition winning is important! But I knew right then that Trump would LOVE it!!! I did not like his going on about Rebecca's broken ankle. Trump, please please tell me what you like about her, so that I can see it too and appreciate it. I guess he sees himself in her *pun not intended* - no matter how his businesses fare (fail), he still presents himself as the successful businessman - just like Rebecca who is all talk and no work.

I like Alla, but she is quite unpolished. And I like Felisha quite a lot, although I do hope she starts defending herself more. Carolyn's stock fell this week. And I miss George - I don't like what Bill has to offer - he is such a Trump suck-up.

blackwing

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:26 am

I think the megaphone stealing was wrong, because Randal and Rebecca knew it was wrong. I agree that they could have just gone in there and said, well, we'll pay more if you sell them to us now. Instead, they pretended to be the competition and Randal stood watch in case the others showed up. What was he going to say if Capital Edge showed up when he was looking out? "I'm sorry, but you can't go in there?"

I wish there had been some kind of rule that they had to wrap an object. That's the way Trump described the task - wrap an advertisement around a building, a vehicle, etc. Not PEOPLE. So disappointing. I've seen wrapped buses in Chicago and they look really cool. People wearing sandwich boards? U-G-L-Y.

However, what was Adam thinking? If I was a carriage customer and I was paying so much good money for a carriage ride, I'd be turned off by this ugly ass, poorly applied, sticker on my elegant carriage. What if they wanted to take pictures of the carriage? I knew Capital Edge would lose the second we saw that clip of the carriage with the wrap that was torn at around Shania's face.

But nobody won or lost on bullhorns so, I think the point doesn't really matter all that much. [/quote]I disagree. I think the bullhorns made a lot of difference. Particularly the one used by the guy riding in the van.

I have no problem with Alla letting people use her cell phone. "It's so easy, all you have to do is call. Don't have a phone or don't want to use your minutes? Please use mine." I thought it showed drive and good marketing. This perfume is so great, this girl's willing to let me use her phone because she really wants me to try it!

I thought it was clear that even with so many less workers (some of whom didn't speak English), that Alla's team did a much better job of getting the word out and getting people to call. I don't understand why Trump and the Trumpettes couldn't have at least acknowledged that.

heebiejeebie

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:33 am

I wonder what the rules allowed as per using one of the Trumpette's cell phones. Because we really don't know as the team that did so, lost. Had they own, maybe it would have come up and been addressed.

Because if what All did was actually kosher (and we really don't know it was just because it was not mentioned -- other slight infractions have been glossed over in the past as it did not affect the standings), why wouldn't you go out and buy a couple of trac phones and have the temps approach people and let them use the trac phone to call? I certainly would be more open to having someone say "promo here -- use our phone to call and get a free sample" than "hey do you have a phone -- then you need to call..." (which was Alla's approach I believe -- I think she even grabbed one person to get their attention -- I would have maced the bitch if she did that to me).

All in all, the choices of the teams in terms of sales and promotions have been so incredibly craptacular this season. Whether it was the winning team or the losing team, both sides have done one of the most underwhelming jobs at the tasks over all of any season. In fact I think this set ranks below anything I saw on Branson's attempt at reality as well.

I'm a bit surprised that Trump is letting a task set his final two. Is he that delusional that he believes his own hyperbole that these four truly represent the best? Or does he just not care anymore? With Bill so firmly liplocked to his ass and showing just how incredibly bland, ineffective and unimaginative he is; Kelly sweating and selling water and Kendra? Possibly doing lunch with Florida House and Home editors lauding the latest Trump building prject while cutting her own deals on the side. I figure trump doesn't really need a fourth and could not care less who wins beyond stroking his own ego. He has a sycophant. He has the blow-up back up. And in Kendra he has anattempt at legitimacy in showing that yes, indeed, the show does not only attract some capable people, but they can actually win on occasion!

If I was a gamblign man, I would say the next challenge will have some sort of arbitrary level in the judgement just in case. Though the previews do seem to make it a numbers game if I recall correctly.

I do wonder if Trump knew he was not firing Alla and the allowing back to the suiote was not only a pat on the head and a show of trust in her abilities, but also, as mentioned upthread, a means of making sure that whoever won and had to work with Alla on the next project would be a bit more antagonistic. Or maybe it was just Trump trying to edit Alla into another "superstar" in case she does win. By next week's voiceover recap by trump we'll be hearing how Adam clearly was not cut out and was over his head and Trump had no choice but to "fire" him.

highlander

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:35 am

What was he going to say if Capital Edge showed up when he was looking out? "I'm sorry, but you can't go in there?"[/quote]

That scene had me wondering too and I couldn't help but laugh wondering what Randal would actually do. Would he run inside the store and tell Rebecca to duck? That scene was really comical.

lessa2010

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:34 am

I think the main reason why it was so close was because even though Randall and Rebecca had 60 warm bodies walking around, they were spread out. Alla had all her people nearby where she could keep an eye on them. Half of Randall's work force could have been having a very long coffee break for all he knew.

BethieJean

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:56 am

Half of Randall's work force could have been having a very long coffee break for all he knew. [/quote]
Excellent point. While they did have more people, who's to say they were "better staffed?" Quality, not quantity is sooo true.

MrCBM

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:57 am

Bullhorngate - anyone who wanted to win would have done it; me included.

As was mentioned earlier, if 15 people = 5 less votes than 60 ppl, then the carriages were the biggest factor - well, maybe not. I think the people being spread out to less densely populated areas, as well as not being supervised (i.e. pushed to get calls) probably made the biggest difference.

Wrapping, if I remember correctly, looks worse than graffitti when done on vacant buildings, even though done on busses, vans, etc looks very professional.

When DT expalined the task, I thought of using people, but thought of using semi-nude models with the appearance of just the wrap covering their bodies. Then I remembered one season when someone got in trouble with DT for doing something similar, but I couldn't remember what it was.

Overall, a pretty ghetto marketing campaign, but the goal made it that way.

tjmor

Nov 25, 2005 @ 11:58 am

I dont think the Radio Shack store would have held on to those megaphones forever. All they had was someone's word that they were coming to by them that day without any kind of money down to hold them. [/quote]

As someone upthread had already mentioned, other respectable stores, i.e. Barnes and Noble, ask for a charge card information, name, phone, and etc., and will hold the merchandise for a customer as per their mutual agreement, e.g., until 4:00 PM. The fact that Radio Shack did not do this, does not make Randal and Rebecca look better in my eyes. 'Cause this isn't about the Radio Shack. This is about Randal's and Rebecca's decision to take something that they knew belonged to their 'colleagues'.

Bassari99

Nov 25, 2005 @ 12:02 pm

However, I do think the reason that they got so many calls with less people was because Alla, Adam, and Felisha themselves were also out there selling their hearts out. Maybe we just didn't see the footage, but it didn't look as if Randal and Rebecca were doing the same. Rather, they were just letting all their temps do it. I think they would've gotten better results had they also participated in hounding people on the streets as intensely as AllaAdamFelisha did. [/quote]
Capital Edge did seem to work harder. They had to, because Excel was working smarter, and that was Randal's plan.

The megaphone pilfering was ethically dodgy because it involved misrepresentation. That is, Rebecca pretending to be the party that placed the order for the megaphones. I would not have been comfortable putting those Radio Shack employees in such an awkward position. Perhaps, that is a minor concern in the cut-throat world of business, but that doesn't sit well with my personal set of ethics. Otherwise, Rebecca and Randal got to Radio Shack first, and as the saying goes: You snooze, you loose.

tone

Nov 25, 2005 @ 12:17 pm

I agree that they could have just gone in there and said, well, we'll pay more if you sell them to us now. [/quote]That would work in a Mom & Pop, non computerized retail joint. With a legitimate store like Radio Shack, their POS systems don't have a Mark Up button to account for the extra money. Where would the extra money go? In the employee's pocket? I'm sure that wouldn't go over well.

ETA:

Clip show: Brian: I feel like I've really grown... You mean he was SHORTER before TA?[/quote]Totally forgot about that one. That was pretty funny.

Miss Alli

Nov 25, 2005 @ 12:19 pm

I'm just not sure we're in agreement on what "belonged to" colleagues meant. All it really meant, in this case, was that the other team had requested the megaphones. They hadn't put down a deposit, hadn't even apparently given a name under which they could be held. That, to me, isn't ownership. It vaguely reminds me of cab-"stealing" in TAR -- you only "have" a cab when the cab driver says you do, and you only "have" the megaphones when Radio Shack says that you and no one else can have them. Unless I'm forgetting, Rebecca didn't specifically say anything other than that she was there to pick up the megaphones. I think Alla and her team simply didn't think of the importance of protecting that purchase, or they would have tried to negotiate for a deposit that would have held the megaphones for only them. It's kind of like a restaurant that doesn't take reservations -- if the store doesn't take a deposit when you "hold" something, then there's sort of no such thing as "holding" it.

In other words, if it's still available for sale in the store without anybody proving that they're you, then it's not yours yet. All you've really done is agreed to buy it if it's there when you get there, but I'd never assume anybody had committed to selling anything to me and me alone unless I'd put down money.

Lisetta

Nov 25, 2005 @ 12:24 pm

Last night's show had me wondering: do you have to pass an illiteracy test to qualify for TA? I've never seen so many people who never think about writing things down.

I couldn't believe that no one, on either team, thought of printing up some coupons with the phone number printed on them and hyping the perfume they'd get if they called by 4 p.m.

Would that really have been so hard to pass out the phone number?

Oh, and the clip show cracked me up. I didn't notice before how stupid DT sounds with his reason for separating them into boy/girl teams because, "otherwise its hard to tell you apart."

What? Trump can't tell the women from the men if they're on coed teams? (Some sex ed coach he'll be!) Coed teams make it harder to remember their names?

That was such a stupid reason for team division by gender that I can't believe they actually showed it again.

Ashforth

Nov 25, 2005 @ 12:25 pm

I think Rebecca and Randal’s plan to cover a lot of geographical area had merit, but sending 60 day laborers out unsupervised to do one-on-one sales (not an easy task, especially for an untrained sales force that had no real motivation to perform well) was a poor idea. The five-call difference in calls would seem to indicate that Alla and Felisha did manage their 15-person temp team much more effectively. Or maybe the carriages were much more successful than they seemed, but there was no way to measure their effectiveness.

I missed the task description at the beginning and so I didn’t have any idea that a specific marketing technique (wrapping) was supposed to be utilized. It looked like any other Apprentice marketing task to me. The success of the task really revolved around one-on-one sales, not wrapping.

Shania did look like she wanted to be anywhere but with Rebecca and Randal. I think she did work hard to achieve her success, but her heart sure didn’t seem to be in this job. She was not impressive at all.

Scherzo

Nov 25, 2005 @ 12:38 pm

And I also disliked the fact that Trump let Alla go early. At the very least, he should have kept her around just to see if (like so many others) she would shoot herself in the foot by talking too much at the end, even knowing that she was safe. [/quote]
I think this is evidence that Trump had preselected Alla for the Final Four. He sent her up to the Suite precisely so she couldn't self destruct or make a fire-able mistake in the Bardroom.

And word to everyone who thinks that wrapping the carriages was a bad idea. It totally was. Not only a bad idea, but incredibly poorly-executed, as well. Wrinkles, lumps, they weren't on straight. They looked like they were fastened on with safety pins. Feh. Especially in contrast with the van, which was thoroughly professionally-done.
[/quote]
The product used for wrapping is tricky to install and normally requires a professional --- the mess they made of those carriages is evidence for that. And aren't those carriage tops made of vinyl or something similar that's soft? The adhesive from the wrap is going to ruin all of them!

In thinking about what I would have wrapped, I would have liked to try something big. At least 12-feet high. Surely there was somewhere that would have let them wrap a large plate-glass window and provide a base of operations. Times Square? Near Macy's? Broadway?

And big word to the poster upthread who said the temps should have been handing out cards with the 800 number printed on it.

AlmondEyes

Nov 25, 2005 @ 12:40 pm

Trump's big on history, right? So how could he proclaim at the beginning of the show that Randal just missed being fired last week?! The man was 2-0 as PM when the task started. What the hell is Trump smoking?

ITA with those posters who felt that Carolyn's attack on Felisha was particularly nasty. The only person I remember her going after so viciously was intellectual horsepower Jen M. Maybe my math skills are rusty, but Felisha at least won her turn as PM with the XM radio task. Rebecca? Not so much.

And just how is Felisha weaker than Rebecca? I thought performance is what mattered, but looks to me as if one can turn it on in the BR, as Rebecca does with her death ray stares, all is well in the land of Trump. True, Felisha needs to step it up, show some fire in her belly in the BR, hit one out of the park, and - sorry, folks! That wasn't me, it was my Bill Rancic windup toy, aka the Trump Talking Points Action Figure. I used to like Bill, but now? Way to cram as much corporatespeak into a sentence as possible, dude!

Oh, and I rather enjoyed MegaPhoneGate. Heh.

I hate these tasks which, yet again, have no correlation with whatever the hell it is one would do as Trump's lackey - I'm sorry, apprentice. Pimping Shania fucking Twain? Who looked bored as all getout to be there? So which corporate sponsor is paying the most next week to have the Apprenti work on a task that has no bearing on the "job" with Trump? Sigh. I long for the days of watching the idiot Apprenti sell ice cream.

quaintirene

Nov 25, 2005 @ 12:53 pm

highlander

Nov 25, 2005 @ 12:54 pm

I think this is evidence that Trump had preselected Alla for the Final Four. He sent her up to the Suite precisely so she couldn't self destruct or make a fire-able mistake in the Bardroom[/quote]

I think it is possible that Trump sent Alla back to the suite because he wanted to know how Felisha and Adam would do against each other without Alla bringing up points which would help Felisha or Adam. Carolyn picked Felisha as the weakest, Bill picked Adam and Trump wanted to see which one of them would come off as the stronger one. He may have been in a quandry himself since he felt neither of them were Apprentice material, he wanted to see what each of them said without Alla there.

It seems to me that I'm always seeing them pay cash for stuff[/quote]

You have a point there. Rebecca used cash and not a credit card to pay for the megaphones.

legaleagle44

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:00 pm

Oh, and the clip show cracked me up. I didn't notice before how stupid DT sounds with his reason for separating them into boy/girl teams because, "otherwise its hard to tell you apart."

What? Trump can't tell the women from the men if they're on coed teams? (Some sex ed coach he'll be!) Coed teams make it harder to remember their names?

That was such a stupid reason for team division by gender that I can't believe they actually showed it again.[/quote]

I can see his point, though, Lisetta. Separating the candidates by gender initially does make it much easier to remember who is on which team until he's had a chance to get to know them better as individuals. Look at how much difficulty we viewers had keeping Martha's teams straight until recently--I know I did, not to mention trying to remember which candidates were on her show and which were on Donald's show. The same thing happened at the beginning of Season Three of Donald's show, where the teams were divided along educational lines, rather than gender lines. I, for one, frequently kept assigning candidates to the wrong teams until very late in the interview process. Therefore, even though some people might think that men v. women is an archaic concept for a competition, it makes perfect sense to me as an easy and convenient way of keeping track of them during the early stages of the competition.

tone

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:02 pm

It seems to me that I'm always seeing them pay cash for stuff[/quote]The only time you don't see cash is when they have product placed plastic instead. I believe Chris "I am NOT a homosexual, Mr. Trump" lost one last year at an electronics store that was also product placed.

welcomematt

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:03 pm

I think the megaphone incident said more about Trump than it did about Randal. A virtue is a virtue, and we each perceive different virtues as being more important than others. To Trump, loyalty is paramount. Doing what Randal and Rebecca did doesn't even register on Trump's radar as important. Others, including me, are far more bothered by what R&R did than what Trump perceives as disloyalty. I don't think it was disloyal of Markus to speak up in the meeting and say he thought it was a bad idea. I especially did not think it was disloyal of Tammy in Season I to say that her team had been duped by Troy, because she was responding to a direct question from Trump. Different people are offended by different lapses in morality, I guess. But I am disappointed in Rebecca with regard to this issue, because as soon as you set yourself up as a person of integrity, and then you pull something like this with the megaphones, you make yourself look like a fool, in my opinion.

Martha Stewart just demonstrated for us very effectively what happens when you use the excuse of "it's just business" when you lie and are unethical. Lying might give you a short-term advantage, but it doesn't make sense long-term, and I think the corporate executives at Enron, etc., are finding that out. Also, for me, the appearance of unethical behaviour can be just as bad as unethical behaviour from a business perspective. I really agree with what idledandy said, that Randal and Rebecca would have been far more impressive had they revealed the truth, and negotiated a deal with the Radio Shack people. That would have knocked my socks off.

Akai, not only should the anonymous black guy be in the Final Four, but you should be too for your idea about having the hard bodies sell in this task. These candidates show an appalling lack of creativity, and they get worse each season. He did indeed have more "fire in his belly" than the candidates. It made me think about how much I would enjoy it if instead of pseudo-professionals, we get blue-collar people who get to show off their latent business skills. I know we've had street smarts before, but I mean real blue-collar, not this show's warped version of blue-collar. I mean, someone who the idea of a quarter-million-dollars a year job sounds like heaven, like they just won the lottery. And if all they're going to be doing is toiling in a windowless office, like Kelly, Trump won't have to worry about their fitting in with the rest of his organization.

Lisetta

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:05 pm

Just to add my two cents on the main topics from last night....

I think Martha would have thought winning by underhanded methods (taking their megaphones) was wrong, and that resorting to doing it, demeaned Rebecca and Randall. In fact, I think she would have been shocked and eliminated them (in her mind, if not the BR). Unlike Trump, I think Martha feels you should knock yourself out on the task, run your own race the best and hardest that you can, and that that's the best way to win.

Winning by stealing things from the other team? That would never fly with MS. But Trump, of course, "loved" it.

re: Carolyn. I thought she was totally out of line with the comments to Felisha. She seems to have pegged her as "all show and no substance" which I haven't seen to be true. I think Carolyn's one of those people who doesn't give you a second chance, once the knife is out. Felisha's probably finished.

re: the job. After seeing the Kellybot and the Bill Rancic cliche-spewing mechanical doll, why would anyone want to win this task? Apparently, "winning" sucks all the life and imagination and personality and originality out of you. (Well, I'm not sure that Kelly ever had any, but Bill certainly seemed to. Not any more, though).

I think Alla and Randall will be final two. I think Randall could adjust easier to a robotic future with Trump, though.

ETA: I don't blame Shania Twain for her frozen smile throughout the "reward". First, none of TA seemed to be fans. I bet neither Rebecca nor Randall could name one song she's recorded and that dinner looked painful. R/R seemed utterly boring as dinner companions, and Randall's toast to Rebecca, with Shania sitting there, was almost rude. She at least tried to show some interest in them.

And Trump/Burnett? A horseback riding "reward" in NYC for someone with a broken ankle? Oooo-kay......

Sunidesus

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:18 pm

I had an obscure thought about the last episode based on the "what you didn't see" footage. So Clay redid the poster for Jadé after Randal picked such an awful picture to use. What is the possibility, given the sandbagging he seemed to be doing towards Rebecca during other parts of the task, that maybe he changed the number of the station during the edit?[/quote]
Interesting theory! And it would make sense with what we know of Clay's vindictive personality.

Lady indoors with dark glasses to Toral: "I'm legally blind." Oh man....[/quote]
Hee! The thing that really got me about that is that she could have turned that around into a selling point. Something along the lines of "It's so big and clear, it'll help you be able to see more of it than you can now."

Fluffy Malone

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:29 pm

I have no problems with the megaphones. Well, other than the fact that we're supposed to believe there were only 10 megaphones for purchase in all of NYC. Nothing was stolen, R&R took advantage of competitive information and made good use of it. It seemed to me that AA&F were quite slow in picking them up, even after I'm sure Adam was made aware that these were so scarce they had to pull all of them from their stores throughout NYC.

Business is competition and even if you're not planning on taking advantage of your competitors when given the chance, you can't expect that they won't try and take advantage of you. Part of being successful is understanding how the game is played and R&R just played the game. I also found Alla as a moral compass a little hard to swallow. Even Adam got it.

It seems to me that I'm always seeing them pay cash for stuff[/quote]

Not always, we saw Chris leave their Visa card at the Best Buy last season.

I think it is possible that Trump sent Alla back to the suite because he wanted to know how Felisha and Adam would do against each other without Alla bringing up points which would help Felisha or Adam. [/quote]

That's what I was thinking, too. I'm sure he knows that Alla has been a puppetmaster and you know how much he loves it when people go after each other, fighting for their lives in the BR. I think he wanted to see what kind of stuff Adam and Felicia each had when Alla wasn't there to orchestrate the conversation.

eenie

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:32 pm

Shania did look like she wanted to be anywhere but with Rebecca and Randal. I think she did work hard to achieve her success, but her heart sure didn’t seem to be in this job. She was not impressive at all. [/quote]

I can't say I blame her at all. Spending an entire day with a complete stranger would be an uncomfortable situation in itself. Spending an entire day with a complete stranger who's a celebrity or with complete strangers when you're a celebrity? I'd imagine the discomfort increases for both parties. Plus, to be completely honest, I've no idea what the hell I would talk about with Shania Twain all day long. Take me out to dinner with Maya Angelou, and I'd think of a million things to talk about...but if Shania was my dinner partner, I'd be boredly downing the champagne as well.

Keupi

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:34 pm

I did laugh at lot at last night's task episode but I was ROTF with the ad on top of Adam's cab - advertising a job-finding website.

I agree that the problem Randal and Rebecca had was that they didn't supervise their staff. Rebecca should have been in the van riding around ensuring that their staff was working. I also liked the idea of the poster who said call an acting agency.

The other thing that confused me with the temporary staff hired by both teams is that they didn't specify that they were selling perfume and that the staff who showed up should be mostly women. That may sound unfair to the male gender, but a woman can convince both genders to request the sample - to other females, have it on the wrist, tell them they wear it all the time, and let them sniff. To males, it's something their wives/girlfriends/daughters/sisters/mothers (etc, etc, etc) would love. I also would have had that van looking for any outside worksite in Manhattan and also sent them into businesses (eg, the Domino's pizza task).

With the megaphones, I can understand calling RadioShack, but I couldn't understand not calling sporting goods stores because cheerleaders, track and swimming coaches, and a multitude of others use that type of megaphone. No issue with what Randal and Rebecca did and among Alla, Felisha, and Adam they should have looked around for another outlet (I would have called their friends at Dick's Sporting Goods first) that sold them once they lost the ones at RadioShack. It was like RadioShack was the only supplier in Manhattan and once they were gone, they were gone.

jlok

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:39 pm

The megaphone thing didn't really bother me, although I would have felt a little better about it if R&R had said, "We hear you've got a bunch of megaphones here, we'll pay you double for them" rather than misrepresent that they were the ones who'd put the megaphones on hold.

Felisha bugs me to no end, but I got so turned off by Adam's comments about "the labour" and how Felisha should have been able to bargain for more with the money she had. I dunno, I just don't think you can simultaneously complain about the quality of "the labour", and that they should have come even cheaper.

Also, Alla and Felisha, begging for people to help you get a promotion by making a phone call is not quite the same thing as selling perfume. Don't brag about how great you are at sales when all you did was use flirtation, guilt and desperation.

highlander

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:41 pm

The problem with Dick's Sporting Goods is that they are far away. They are not in NYC.

debng

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:46 pm

The problem with Dick's Sporting Goods is that they are far away. They are not in NYC.[/quote]

There are other sporting goods stores in NYC though. Modell's is a big one and Paragon, on Broadway around Union Square, is huge. I can't believe one of those places doesn't have megaphones.

Even so, I admit, I enjoyed the whole Megaphone thing. Frankly the show would be a lot more enjoyable if there was more corporate backstabbing and sabotage.

polka dots

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:52 pm

I agree that they could have just gone in there and said, well, we'll pay more if you sell them to us now. [/quote] That would work in a Mom & Pop, non computerized retail joint. With a legitimate store like Radio Shack, their POS systems don't have a Mark Up button to account for the extra money. Where would the extra money go? In the employee's pocket? I'm sure that wouldn't go over well.[/quote]

Excellent point. It's Radio Shack, not a pawn shop.

Also, Alla and Felisha, begging for people to help you get a promotion by making a phone call is not quite the same thing as selling perfume. Don't brag about how great you are at sales when all you did was use flirtation, guilt and desperation. [/quote]

I do think they themselves worked harder than R&R but yeah, their "selling tactics" really turned me off. Reminds me a lot of Tana from last season and her Mary Kay attitude of bug the person to death until they do what you want them to do. If I was one of those innocent people walking by their little operation (Actually, I probably wouldn't even walk by them to begin with. I'd cross the street and go out of my way to avoid them) and they kept bugging me to call, there's a good chance I'd look at their poster and hate Shania Twain. Way to promote a good image!

muchsarcasm

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:52 pm

There are other sporting goods stores in NYC though. Modell's is a big one[/quote]
Good call, debng. As anyone who's attended or watched a New York sporting event knows, Ya gotta go to Mo's

hissyfit

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:55 pm

How exactly did this incorporate wrapping? (Aside from the sad attempts with the carriage?) Sandwich boards are not wrapping, they're signs. I've seen wrapping done on buses, subway trains, buildings...both teams had the dullest campaigns. I didn't think anyone did a particularly good job.

Randal on the horse cracked me up. Horses have an innate sense of when someone doesn't know how to ride and will immediately start to mess with the person. I think the horse was headed towards the tree to do the infamous 'scrape off' where they press up against something and knock the rider off.

Are they trying to kill Rebecca with the rewards? First they break her foot in a hockey game then they put her on a horse wearing a cast?

fictionista

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:57 pm

and Randall's toast to Rebecca, with Shania sitting there, was almost rude. She at least tried to show some interest in them[/quote]

I'm pretty sure it was Rebecca who made the toast to Randall.

AbbySomething

Nov 25, 2005 @ 1:56 pm

An absolute HILARIOUS WORD to Total Addict and polka dots

I think one word summed this whole mess up for me, and it came from Felisha: "niativite." Pronounced ny-ah-TIV-uh-tay. Which, is not a word. But okay.[/quote]

Man, I was going to point this out, but you totally beat me to it. Add this to the Apprenti dictionary, chock full of non-words like "demeaningful" and basically every word that came out of Craig's ass. I mean, mouth. [/quote]

For the many folks that were put off by Carolyn's comments in the boardroom to Felisha tonight...
That felt like the most contrived, rehearsed comments I've ever seen in the boardroom. It felt, to me, that Carolyn had been instructed to go after one candidate (perhaps, specifically Felisha), while Boyfriend Bill was to play Devil's Advocate and pick on Adam - and that Trump had already decided to keep Alla, so nobody was going to pick on her. It never seemed sincere on Carolyn's part. At least, that is the way it appeared to me.

quantirene brought up:

One thing that occurs to me about the megaphones. Alla etc should have put a deposit down on them, but I'm not sure if they are allowed to use credit cards. It seems to me that I'm always seeing them pay cash for stuff. If they aren't allowed to use program credit cards, maybe they aren't allowed to use their own--could be seen as supplementing the given cash amount with their own money which would be unfair. If this is so, it may have been difficult to put a deposit down without actually going to the store. [/quote]

While I agree that they may not be able to use their credit card for the purchase, I have no doubt the store would have accepted a credit card number to "hold the purchase", and the customer could come in and pay for it in cash whenever they get there. Hotels do this all the time, too. They want a credit card number, whether you use that one to pay the bill or not. So, I am sure just using a personal credit card number for the "hold", not the purchase would have been acceptable. In my book, that would be called "problem-solving" and shown some creativity.

Like so many others, I was flabbergasted that there was only a 5 call difference between the two teams. It was clear that the tactics that Alla's team were using were far more effective with their 15 people (plus themselves) than R&R's team. I thought, personally, why wouldn't R&R (A) have gotten a number of prepaid cellphones to use; (B) get only half as much staff (say 30 instead of 60) and provide them with these cell phones along with their "sandwich boards" and have them hawking the product at the busiest places in Manhattan, offering the top three sellers a $1000 bonus, and see if that doesn't motivate the staff into some super-selling. The bonus would be provided to those top 3 sellers as soon as the Coty folks could verify which phones made the most calls or have the Coty folks set up a special code (assigned to each temp employee who could give out coupons or cards with the phone number to call). Just some thoughts.

CheekyCricket

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:01 pm

The most intriguing bit of the clip show (for me) was seeing the contest between Marshawn and Randal to be PM of the Learning Annex task. During the Star Wars task, I noticed that she seemed irritated by Randal's influence on Brian, but there was a stronger sense of competition between them than I realized, perhaps because they share similar skills and aptitudes. It made me wonder if Marshawn had come to feel that as long as Randal was around, she didn't have a chance of winning: if so, that would help me to understand why she seemed to just give up during the Star Wars task.

The Shania task bugged me, because the course of events felt preordained. From Trump's first comment to Randal that he had almost been fired last week, to Bill's "Randal's found the fire in his belly" remark, it felt overwhelmingly obvious to me that Trump plans to hire Randal. I'm not saying that I think it was rigged, because I don't believe that, and I've been a supporter of Randal's all along, but short of setting Trump's tie on fire, it's difficult to imagine how Randal will fail to win. Alla, Felisha, and Rebecca are far, far behind. It reminds me of some job interviews I've had where the employers already know who they're going to hire for the position, but they are obligated to interview others (who don't have a serious chance) in order to make the decision-making process look legitimate. Same thing with Adam's firing: as Trump remarked, Alla and Felisha can beat Randal and Rebecca, so it sounded as if he'd already made his decision before the boardroom started. But, even if that happens next week, then it will provide a reason for eliminating Rebecca, and as long as Randal doesn't screw up too badly, it's unlikely that Alla or Felisha will be hired

As far as the megaphone caper versus the cell-phone caper, well, six of one, half a dozen of the other. Both incidents involved slippery business decisions that some see as smart and others see as shady, and all it demonstrated to me was that Randal and Rebecca have no reason to claim moral superiority to Alla or Felisha. Morally and ethically speaking, the four finalists are about on the same level. Bleah, I feel tired and jaded by all this . . .

davidcalgary29

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:02 pm

Best moment of episode: Alla's sad query about what she'd do for breakfast now that her bitch was gone. Clay, you were so on the wrong Apprentice.

DT's immediate dismissal of Alla "so that CE would have a better chance of beating Randal (and included merely as an afterthought) and Rebecca" left me surly. Alla, my dear, why are you sticking around if you are (as you surely must know) simply setting up Randal's coronation ?

eenie

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:03 pm

I thought, personally, why wouldn't R&R (A) have gotten a number of prepaid cellphones to use; (B) get only half as much staff (say 30 instead of 60) and provide them with these cell phones along with their "sandwich boards" and have them hawking the product at the busiest places in Manhattan, offering the top three sellers a $1000 bonus, and see if that doesn't motivate the staff into some super-selling. The bonus would be provided to those top 3 sellers as soon as the Coty folks could verify which phones made the most calls or have the Coty folks set up a special code (assigned to each temp employee who could give out coupons or cards with the phone number to call). Just some thoughts.[/quote]

I had the same thought as well. I forget which Apprentices did this in the past, but it seemed to work out quite well. I believe it was something to do with bicycle messengers or pedi cabs, but as for which season it was, I've no idea. I just remember that the cash bonuses were a great motivator.

BazzerzBird

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:06 pm

I really was just so fascinated to see Jacob's theory about Clay's fixation on Alla so very unambiguously confirmed. Clay cooked her breakfast for her every day! Fascinating.

Bill Rancic appears to have had the humanity and life force systematically drained out of him and replaced with embalming fluid. Is Trump 'siring' him? The sycophancy is repulsive but doubtless is part of the job description, but the increasing tendency to talk entirely in Trump-speak suggests some sort of ongoing brain-drain. He looks terrified and yet exultant. What a freak.

For which reason I can only hope that Alla, whom I don't really like, is selected as the Apprentice, and Randal and Rebecca whom I do, are not. Trump would eat them both alive, the way he has apparently devoured Kelly.

As for Shania Twain, she was her own worst enemy. I don't have a problem with the hat so much; in the old days, women assembling for lunch wore their hats throughout; women didn't take their hats off at the table (the reverse was true). Even at dinner they kept their little cocktail hats perched on their heads. It was Shania's dead eyes, depressed demeanor, and general indifference that struck memost.

fictionista

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:08 pm

Capital Edge's cellphone ploy, on the other hand, is a tactic not done in business, making it obvious that their end goal was not to have the most effective marketing but rather to make the most phone calls. Superficially, this was the goal of the task but it will mostly likely reflect negatively on Alla and Felisha later because it showed poor marketing techniques. As Firestarter said:

As marketing techniques, those don't suggest a desirable product. Quite the opposite. IMO, strident voices, handing your phone over to people and begging are tactics that show desperation and poor marketing; the whole point of a real marketing task should have been to stimulate genuine interest in the product so that people would wait for their free sample with some interest.

Seen in this light, the 5 call margin between Excel and Capital Edge make more sense. Had R&R used their own cellphones - and reimbursed temps for the use of theirs - then the margin would be bigger. But in doing so, they would have compromised marketing tactics. If I were Shania, I would be pissed off if I knew that the people I had hired were not really representing my perfume well, but merely trying to fill their share of the quota.
[/quote]

Wow, I hadn't even thought about it that way. ITA.

polka dots

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:13 pm

Clay cooked her breakfast for her every day! Fascinating.[/quote]

I wonder if he poisoned it or spit in it. Wouldn't put it past him.

Fukui San

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:15 pm

I had forgotten about Clay making breakfast for Alla every day. That was mind blowing. Thanks for the reminders.

The Manhattan of The Apprentice is a sad little backwater, isn't it? No Bedazzlers, and only 10 megaphones on the whole island. It's like Soviet Russia.

highlander

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:19 pm

While I agree that they may not be able to use their credit card for the purchase, I have no doubt the store would have accepted a credit card number to "hold the purchase", and the customer could come in and pay for it in cash whenever they get there. Hotels do this all the time, too. They want a credit card number, whether you use that one to pay the bill or not. So, I am sure just using a personal credit card number for the "hold", not the purchase would have been acceptable. In my book, that would be called "problem-solving" and shown some [/quote]

I read and other candidates confirmed that the candidates are not allowed to carry their own money or credit cards at all during this interview process. They must give them to Burnett's staff when they first get to the suite.

Masem

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:27 pm

Regarding Randal XM poster: I'm pretty sure that the station number was 60-something on the 'stupid' pic version, which was the same wrong number in the introspective picture version. Add to the fact that Randal stepped up really quickly to that error, and I doubt Clay sabotaged that. (As I recall, Clay didn't really go after Randal on the poster either, so if he had sabotaged it as to use later, he never did so).

Once they got the guy in the truck with the megaphone, all I could think of was "You! In the car! You! In the bike! Tonight is... ladies night... at the Shania Twain's Rythym and Blues Concert..."

I'd argue that while they created 'buzz' and someone won in the task, the effective return on the $10k investiment on either team was terrible. Only a notch under 1000 people for an 8hr window is much lower numbers than I'd expect. I realize they weren't trying to sell an item everyone would use, so the appeal wouldn't be that great, but still, for having 20 or more people around, that's a really low number of return calls.

frea

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:31 pm

U R Not Prince.

telly

Nov 25, 2005 @ 2:32 pm

Shania was born in Windsor and raised in Timmins, Ontario, where at some point she got in touch with her step native roots. I would have thought that she would have learned at one or both of those places that it is rude to be wearing your hat at dinner, especially when it is a big cowboy hat that droops over your face. If Conrad Black ends up getting his Canadian citizenship back, can they give him Shania's? She doesn't need it in Switzerland.

She really had nothing to say and just added to the list of unexciting prizes that have been given this season.

It's unfortunate that Trump has made his favourites evident from the start because neither Randall, Alla or Rebecca have really impressed, although I guess I have to go with Randall as the least objectionable.
Unless this was edited away, Alla did not provide a real explanation for why she quickly forked over $6,000.00 for the horse carriage idea. They all should have been in the boardroom and raked over the coals, even if she was never really going to be fired. Adam's lack of leadership overall would have gotten him fired anyway.

Sallins

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:03 pm

Double the Apprentice last night, the clip show showed us that Markus and Toral were not putting on an act, they are really that full of themselves. The Brian confessing his crush on Jen was cute, I espically liked when Marshan was speaking for Brian.

The epsiode, Loved what Rebecca and Randell did with the megaphones, like Rebecca said, they didn't try to find the information, they just came across it by accident. I also thought it was part the store's fault that they didn't have the megaphones reserved under someone's name. With only a 5 caller loss, the megaphones did not make that much of a difference.

I could not understand why Felicia was taking so much heat for not hiring enough workers, she only had so much money to work with and with Adam blowing 6,000 on the caraiges. Alla even told her they had enough money for 15 workers and that is what she got. That was also a smart move from Alla to let people use her cell phone to order the samples.

musichic2000

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:04 pm

...

Eric Roberts

Nov 25, 2005 @ 3:06 pm

If I hear the expression "step up" any more I'm going to hang myself.

Manhattan, get some more megaphones damnit!

Get Bill off my TV.

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