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Full Version: 4-9: "One Hit Blunder" 2005.11.17
TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery
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highlander
There is little time to work things out when you are on to the next task and you always have deadlines and need to finish the task in two days. IMO it's not fair to compare this to a real life work situation because you and the other employees are not going into a boardroom every three or four days where one of you will be fired. Anyone going on this show should know by now that the boardroom can be brutal and it lasts from 2 hours to sometimes 5 hours. Things will be said and those that survive the boardroom need to leave it in the boardroom or at least be able to discuss their anger in a mature way.
CurryMasala

Based on Rebecca's boardroom behavior in this episode, she pretty much did what most candidates in trouble have done in the past: shift blame as much as possible. I don't think anyone needs to be coached to do that, so I think it's unlikely that she's being coached.[/quote]

I meant that Rebecca has a certain way about her in the boardroom that exhudes confidence. It is as if she knows for sure that she is not going to get fired - with her smile and manner of talking. When she was PM the first time, she 'kept her cool' and instead of pleading with Trump or defending herself, she calmly replied to Trump's questions, and as a result she did not get fired. Could that have been coached?

And I do agree that TD is very smart, maybe too smart to give into Rebecca and hire her after she has made a really big mistake with Toral, and lost twice. I am not sure if winning once now will make that much of a difference - in my mind it shouldn't. I think TD is trying to push her and see if she really has something to show, and since she has failed at that, she needs to go. I mean, even though he runs companies that fail, he deserves credit for still being able to pull off as a successful person and get other builders to put his 'brand name' on their buildings. At least his tooting his horn is making a difference and bringing him money - and women.
cggb
With Rebecca, I think it's a matter of her being who she is, which is firm and confident in her approach. She's one of the rare candidates who doesn't cower when DT gets combative or starts to bloviate. I don't see that as a product of being coached.
highlander

With Rebecca, I think it's a matter of her being who she is, which is firm and confident in her approach. She's one of the rare candidates who doesn't cower when DT gets combative or starts to bloviate. I don't see that as a product of being coached.[/quote]

I have yet to see Trump become combative with Rebecca. He treats her with kid gloves in the boardroom as someone else upthread suggested.
CheekyCricket
I watched a repeat of the episode yet again, and it was clear that despite Clay's expression of dissatisfaction with the presentation and with dropping "What About Me?," he did not understand the XM Cafe format any better than Randal or Rebecca. His comment about how Jide's voice could fit into almost any genre from soul to classical, something which he seemed to think would appeal to the channel's listeners, demonstrated to me that his notion of the XM Cafe was close to Rebecca's "sophisticated, intellectual" audience. So, it looks like all three members of Excel struck out on the major focus of the task.
Oh the humanity
Did anyone catch that very weird moment where Clay moved to Randal and Rebecca's team and asked them for a hug? He gave Randal a big bear hug, and gave Rebecca the strangest, stiff, awkward hug. I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but it was a really strange moment.

I thought that Jide's song sounded like 'Nigerian Justin Timberlake'.
blocked writer
I think that one of the reasons that I disliked this task so much is the subjective nature of music, which others have mentioned. What if Randal, Rebecca & Clay had gotten closer to the type of song that would have fit into the station format, even arguably as close as the other team? Then, how would they judge the outcome? Popularity? What makes a song great, or even enjoyable, varies from person to person. I just didn't like seeing a task where picking a winner could leave so much up to interpretation, and to a lesser degree, luck. JMHO.
holdfast
Let's not forget that Clay opened the door to admit Jide halfway through Rebecca's spiel - basically a K-Bar between her shoulder blades. I am convinced that this was totally derliberate (my evidence is that smug little smirk on his face right after he did it). I can only assume that this was a "tactic" or revenge for some slight (mostly likely imagined). This totally threw her off her stride and stripped away any value she might have mined from the faux-intellectual nigerian thing. It probably didn't actually lose them the task, but after that stunt any PM with Clay on his or her team would have to be stupid not to gag Clay and tie him to the nearest chair for the duration of the task. And that's why his firing was entirely appropriate - a two-fer would have been fine too, but we're running out of apprenti.
tjmor

What if Randal, Rebecca & Clay had gotten closer to the type of song that would have fit into the station format, even arguably as close as the other team?[/quote]

But they haven't gotten anywhere close to the required format.


Then, how would they judge the outcome? Popularity? What makes a song great, or even enjoyable, varies from person to person. I just didn't like seeing a task where picking a winner could leave so much up to interpretation, and to a lesser degree, luck. JMHO. [/quote]

I guess we will never know because the song they created did not meet requirements. They could've found Placido Domingo and had him sing Othello, and a lot of people woul've enjoyed it. After all, it is Placido Domingo! But the task would've been lost anyway just because it did not meet the requirements. I don't know why, but, IMO, the Excell simply missed the point on this task.
blocked writer

I don't know why, but, IMO, the Excell simply missed the point on this task. [/quote]

I know they did miss it, which is why I said, "What if?" I was just speculating about what would have happened had they not missed the point, and if they had indeed come close - both teams could conceivably have gotten the music style right. Then what? I'd rather see tasks where the outcome is easier to judge, not quite as ambiguous. Again, JMHO.
tjmor
I didn't like that task at all. This isn't a song writing or music producing contest. I've never heard that knowing/understanding/writing/producing/etc music/songs is a job requirement for a CEO, or CIO, or COO, or marketing/sales/waterboy/realtor position in a non-music specific field. I have a feeling that plenty of seasoned executives around the world would've lost this task to Felisha just because she happened to know what she was doing. Sure, Felisha has demonstrated her leadership skills, and Capital Edge worked as a well adjusted team. But, so what? It seems that DT is willing to lower the bar in favor of profits. I guess next year we could see contestants performing bull fighting or ballroom dancing, or something else that only slightly relates to business.
Susan StoHelit
At my company, a common question asked during interviews was, "How do they put the candy coating on an M&M?" That has nothing to do with our business, but it was our bosses favorite way of seeing how people thought, how they dealt with something they didn't have a pat answer to, what happened when they were outside their comfort zone.

I see tasks like this just like that - there's always going to be something in your job that will push you past what you normally work with.
blocked writer

At my company, a common question asked during interviews was, "How do they put the candy coating on an M&M?" That has nothing to do with our business, but it was our bosses favorite way of seeing how people thought, how they dealt with something they didn't have a pat answer to, what happened when they were outside their comfort zone. [/quote]

I'm sure it did tell your bosses something about the prospective candidates, but I'm also sure that your bosses considered a lot more than just the answer to that question in the end. I have no problem with the contestants being pushed outside their comfort zones, but the very nature of the show and the living conditions, the times constraints, etc., probably already does that for most of them.

I also hate the fact that people have been eliminated based on a very close contest - like a $10.00 difference. In the case of this show, at least one person gets eliminated based on each task.

I dislike many of the tasks, due to the fact that that luck and sujective criteria are often factors. I'd much rather see eliminations happen once every three or four shows, and based on cumulative performance. The three or four candidates with the lowest performances would be sent home. I also think that would create more suspense and guesswork for the viewers.

Plus, it still gets to me how much they stressed creativity on this task, but it was really a task of how well the team could write a song that would fit a certain style of music. There were so many better ways to show creativity in this type of task, IMO, especially since there are many degrees of creativity. For instance, writing a screenplay based on an existing work takes creativity, but it's not the same as writing the original work. I think that over the seasons, the tasks have had a lot of room for improvement, and this one was no exception.
highlander
The tasks that involve creativity are combined with giving the executives what they want: re: Star Wars, Zathura, Lamborghini. This show is supposed to show off candidates business skills and how well they understand the task /project. That is why Felisha should be commended on this task. It doesn't matter who on these boards liked Excel's song since it had to be judged by the executives who needed it to fit the format and the XM listeners, who after all are the paying subscribers. It is much harder to be creative and give the client what they want versus just being creative. In business, you need to know when taking risks might be advantageous to your business and when it can be suicide as George pointed out. Not giving your customers what they need to increase their bottom line, create the right kind of buzz, or in this case keeping the XM Cafe listeners happy is showing that Excel didn't understand how creativity must ultimately conform to what their client wants. The Excel team personally liked R & B and tried to showcase that. This task wasn't about their personal taste. They need to show their business skills and listening carefully to the client is business 101 in my book.


ETA: Felisha, on her interview portion at NBC is a big country music fan, yet, she did not try to push that on the XM listeners, because she understood this task was about making a good business decision and not about her personal taste.
tjmor
Oh, sure. Felisha should be commanded. She did great. She won. But this is not the point I was trying to make. My point is that had the Capital Edge chosen Jide, they would've won anyway. That's because Felisha just happened to know what the style of XM Cafe is. A lot of people, including seasoned executives, would have no idea how to tell two music styles apart. But... they could re-adjust their budjet to hire someone who knows. They could've excelled had they been asked to do something that is clearly business related. Had this been a condition on this task, I would have no problem at all. But the condition was for the teams to use their own creativity. How can you be creative if you don't know what exactly the soft rock is? Isn't song writing/music producing something for professionals to create? What if there was some clinic that paid DT for advertising - would they have the contestants pull teeth and then have the patients decide which 'puller' was better? This task, IMO, had nothing to do with business or business skills.
True, Randal, Rebecca, and Clay could've done more research. They could've asked the station's crew members assigned to them to help them understand the music format. May be they have and still did not get it. Again, I fail to see how this task is related to business or business skills that these contestants are expected to demonstrate. IMO, this task was about the money changing hands, and the teams were simply used as tools... I'd say, shamelessly used.
highlander
First of all, I was responding to another post but I agree with you that CE would have succeeded if they had gone with Jide which proves my point. The point of the task was not being creative only, but being creative and fitting the XM format. The listeners said they could understand Levi's lyrics and liked it as well as the acoustics and musical arrangement. CE was being creative but following the format. The lesson Trump gave in the beginning was be creative but also practical. He did not tell the teams be creative and just do what you want. This task, as I see it, was selling a song to a specific station. If I'm listening to the radio and I want to hear rock and I put on a rock station and country music starts playing, I am not going to be too happy. It's not going to matter how good or creative the country song is-if I wanted to hear country, I would have turned that station on. As far as producing soft rock, the teams were given many professional people to work with them. The teams had access to the internet for reseach and I also think they had a meeting with the executives of XM which wasn't shown due to time restraints. The show showed us more of the making of the song and the bickering between Rebecca and Clay. I still see this as a business lesson but I will agree that it is out of the ordinary.

ETA: Part of a big problem Excel had was Rebecca's own "intellectual and sophisticated" perceptions instead of just concentrating on the specifics of the task.
Jacob
Take it to email, please. Argument for argument's sake is fun, but detracts from the thread for everyone else.
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