TWoP Forums > 4-9: "One Hit Blunder" 2005.11.17

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TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery

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dizzylizzy71

Nov 19, 2005 @ 3:21 pm

I guess I wasn't clear. Does downtown mean the lower part of Manhattan where the WTC was? And then uptown means north of that? And how long is Manhattan? During the helicopter ride I noticed a long island, it looked like anyway, in the middle of the river. What is that? [/quote]

Yes. The upper east and upper west side, to me, start at the 50's with Central Park and end at about the 90s or maybe 100th Street. After that, you are pretty much in Harlem and scary areas, but you could still consider them uptown, I guess.

I think Manhattan is 14 miles long. There are few islands between Manhattan and Queens/Bronx that have condos and the city jail on them. Also there are lots of islands around the southern tip - Ellis, Governors, etc.

MFelkins

Nov 19, 2005 @ 3:25 pm

Give her her own little fiefdom, heavy on operations, with the stamp of approval from the big boss and she'd probably do okay. She seems to be more of a "cross things off the to do list" type person than a "big idea" person. She could probably run the Southern California golf course that's falling into the ocean, without doing too much damage to the Trump empire.[/quote]

Better yet, assign her to George. Tell George to teach the business and in 3 to 5 years you would have a real Super Star.

That is what being an "Appentice" is all about.

My dream would be for one of the Corporate Exec's that Trump brings in for the interviews to pin the Donald down on exactly what it is he is looking for here.

Exec, "Ok, Donald what are you looking for?"
DT, "the best candidate."
Exec, "Best canidate for what, exactly?"
DT, "you know, the BEST!"
Exec, "Ok, well then, you pick one and I'll hire the other three. Because they all have their good points and I can always use good people."

dizzylizzy71

Nov 19, 2005 @ 3:37 pm

I guess I am among the few who thought this task wasn't a total waste. It was about whoring your creativity to a certain market. None of them knew all that much about music but Felicia did have sense enough to get everyone in line with what she was told the market was: boring rock for adult wanna-be hipsters (aka alternative rock). I actually thought the Levi song was pretty good and it seems he did tame it a bit for the intended audience if his real sound is more "Southern Rock, Blue-Eyed Soul, Jerry Lee Lewis." Nothing wrong with that - he catered to the audience at Felicia's beseeching and they won and he probably got some new fans.

Randal, Rebecca and Clay seemed to get wrapped up in Jide's story and forgot that his music didn't fit the market. And the poster was not a firable offense - though it was a major screw-up. Randal, as usual, handled the boardroom awesomely. I don't know if Rebecca was being malicious or just thought she was showing integrity by saying that Clay was more creative. But Randal came clean before Karma-Carolyn came after him and then shut the hell up (I am not really sure why so many of the Apprentices haven't picked up that strategy). And Clay is ridiculously hard to work with - and that will get you fired or highly marginalized in a lot of places. And he doesn't seem particularly skilled or talented at anything but vindictive pissyness so I can't see how he made it this long.

Hoola

Nov 19, 2005 @ 4:36 pm

Give her her own little fiefdom, heavy on operations, with the stamp of approval from the big boss and she'd probably do okay. She seems to be more of a "cross things off the to do list" type person than a "big idea" person. She could probably run the Southern California golf course that's falling into the ocean, without doing too much damage to the Trump empire. [/quote]

I think she's absolutely horrible with managing the details. She put on the expo where fun went to die. She can't delegate without making people feel like they're her minions, and she doesn't follow-up on checking through their work. It's like the worst kind of leader - demanding and unsupportive. She also never takes responsibility for her own faults - like running a horrid expo and not tuning into what the executives wanted rather than what she thought she wanted. But she will cop to having too much integrity and being too loyal. Please.

She'll gladly pass on the buck to her underlings. Huge mistakes happen when she is in charge, Trump even says that she's a bad leader. Why would he want to give her a fiefdom? She tells people to cross things off her list, but she doesn't seem to be capable of doing it herself when she's in charge.

stopeslite

Nov 19, 2005 @ 4:39 pm

Directions and New York seem to be in their own little world to me. I moved to New York (the state) a couple of years ago, and I still laugh that everyone calls anything north of Poughkeepsie "upstate". I live in the middle of the state, and it takes me four hours driving south to get to where New York City people call upstate. I would think that the definition of "up" and "down" are just as fluid within the city, if not more.

tuneman570

Nov 19, 2005 @ 4:55 pm

Levi's a friend of mine, and an INCREDIBLY talented singer/songwriter. He's the real deal, folks. I saw him perform and was immediately hooked. The funny thing is that his style of music is nowhere near the style that XM 45 would play.[/quote]

I think i've heard the likes of Gavin DeGraw on XM Cafe, which sounded like a similar style to Levi. I did like his style, and i'm betting he puts on a great live show.

MiamiGuy

Nov 19, 2005 @ 4:59 pm

Yes. The upper east and upper west side, to me, start at the 50's with Central Park and end at about the 90s or maybe 100th Street. After that, you are pretty much in Harlem and scary areas, but you could still consider them uptown, I guess.

[/quote]

Don't forget Midtown, which would be what, 30s to the 50s? The Apprenti always seem to have trouble with directions, like when Ivana (I think) and shrewish company couldn't find each other on the streets of Manhattan. Since Trump is now whoring out the tasks for product placement, he should get Rand-McNally or Mapquest to be a sponsor and they could do a geography or orienteering task. Heaven help these people if they're ever on "The Amazing Race."

SimoneSays

Nov 19, 2005 @ 5:23 pm

Not to mention that if you're far enough downtown to be below where the numbers are (read: Houston or Jane, or even further south, like Broad or Wall), then "uptown" just means anywhere "north" -- like 14th street. Which, comparatively speaking, is pretty far downtown. It's just a direction: "Hey, I have to go uptown today, anyone wanna come?"

As for "Uptown Girl Christie Brinkley" vs. "Uptown Harlem" (vs. "scary," which I think is outright offensive to anyone grooving to Apollo tunes or living there because the rent is cheaper), the difference is that the latter is R&B/jazz/swing/blues that you find in Harlem -- all African-American inspired. The former is... well, now it's my turn to be offensive, I suppose... meant to imply a certain snobbishness that comes from being from the Upper East Side, with loads of money, pearls, Muffy and Buffy, private clubs, trust funds, white baseball caps, frat boys and investment bankers as far as the eye can see.

CheekyCricket

Nov 19, 2005 @ 7:42 pm

I loved the show last year but it seemed to be much more concentrated on sales and marketing tasks and since that's what my degree is in, perhaps I'm prejudiced but songwriting? Huh? [/quote]
I don't think it was a songwriting task, or rather, not strictly a songwriting task: I think it was another variant of a marketing task, since the point wasn't just to write a nice song. The point was to write a nice song that would fit the XM Cafe format, which is where the marketing component came in. Excel didn't lose because they weren't as creative as Capital Edge, they lost because they screwed up the marketing component. They misunderstand the format and the audience. They found an intriguing artist and wrote a decent song, only it was the wrong song for XM Cafe. (Thanks!!! once again, George, for reminding everyone in the boardroom about that.) So, Excel misunderstood the task, probably believing that they were being asked to do something purely creative since they labored under the misconception that songwriting and music production is an entirely "creative" endeavor, ha! On the other hand, Capital Edge understood that they were writing a song for a particular market, a market which they must have taken some time to understand, as demonstrated when the musicians started to go off-track with the light-jazz treatment, Felisha redirected them back to a light-rock treatment. That was a market-based decision, not a creative one.

Lead Magnet

Nov 19, 2005 @ 8:41 pm

gapkid:
Did anyone notice that blackboard near the kitchen in the suite where someone had kindly recorded everyone's PM win/loss record? I'm surprised no one mentioned it. If they did the same in S3, then Alex should've been well aware of his PM record.[/quote]
I mentioned that in my other post several pages back.

I'm trying to form some coherent thoughts on the nature of "The Apprentice" as a job/reality show plum/usable DT asset. If he wanted really moldable people, why let so many established entrepreneurs on the show, as opposed to, say, college-aged interns? I'm also wondering just how much help getting the job does for the winner, aside from being used to replace George and guest-judging Miss USA/Universe. Welcome to your fifteen minutes of fame...

Ashforth

Nov 20, 2005 @ 12:41 pm

Rebecca: "I like listening to music, so I think I could get into producing it" [/quote] This dumbass idea is similar to what I used to hear from the barflies when I was a bartender - they all thought it would be “fun” to own a bar because they sure loved drinking in one.

I don’t think Rebecca and Randal intentionally blew the task at all, but I think that they both felt safe in that if they did lose, Clay would be the only one in danger of being fired. I think Rebecca’s sudden boardroom criticism of Randal came from realizing that their certainty that Clay would be fired might not be so correct after all. I think Randal’s consternation in the boardroom was because he expected to be praised for taking responsibility for the poster mistake and was shocked that the mistake itself continued to be criticized. And speaking of the poster:

I think it's possible that the poster did lose them the task. Not because it had the wrong station number, but because the time they spent creating the poster would have been better spent researching the radio station. I think Randal and Rebecca share the blame for that...[/quote] That is an interesting theory. There were a lot of little clues to try to put together on this task. Rebecca distanced herself from the poster by saying that Randal insisted on making it, so she let him. Very “hands-off” management, if management at all. The poster was unnecessary and didn’t add any value to the presentation, it just moved the focus further away from the song, between the maneuvering of the easel and the channel mistake (which IMO, was a pretty big one). The presentation was poor even without Clay's "what about me" interruptions.

But in a moment that seems to have been somewhat overlooked, there were Rebecca and Randal, post-loss announcement and pre-boardroom, talking about how great the song was and how they tried to push the boundaries of the XM sound... if that was a conscious decision made by the two of them, then the angle of Clay being at fault for the loss simply by virtue of his jerkdom was a total smokescreen. But we never heard anything about that in the boardroom.

Clay did himself in with his assholery and he deserved to go, but in the process, I believe that both Rebecca and Randal got a huge free pass for the very fucked-up execution of the task.

tjmor

Nov 20, 2005 @ 1:02 pm

Clay did himself in with his assholery and he deserved to go, but in the process, I believe that both Rebecca and Randal got a huge free pass for the very fucked-up execution of the task. [/quote]

Exactly. Thank you. They totally dropped the ball on this task. I don't know if Clay's idea of "What About Me' could have saved them, but at least it shows that he was not in with Randal and Rebecca on their idea. As much as I don't like Clay, I think Rebecca or Randal, or both should've been fired for losing this task. They earned it. Boy, I cannot believe I am saying this 'cause I've been rooting for Randal from the very beginning. Anyway, I've been watching Randal closely and ... I am truly disapponted...

highlander

Nov 20, 2005 @ 1:21 pm

I don't like Clay but the SAD thing is even if Clay sat back and did what Rebecca as PM wanted him to do without annoying her, his team still would have lost and he still would have been the one fired.

profreader

Nov 20, 2005 @ 1:25 pm

I don't know if Clay's idea of "What About Me' could have saved them, but at least it shows that he was not in with Randal and Rebecca on their idea.[/quote]

I think in the end the lyrics would not have mattered. With these narrow-focus channels, it's really the *sound* -- as a lot of us have pointed out, the task was to shape a product (a song) for a specific market. So, the Clay issue was really a side-problem -- the real winning moment for the other team was when Felisha gave the "less jazzy! more alt rock!" direction.

Speaking as a songwriter, its a challenge but certainly not impossible to produce something that fast, especially when you have top studio musicians & recording engineers by your side. If you know the "groove" you're after, they can make it happen.

I haaaaaated the look Clay threw Rebecca when he opened the door during the presentation. I know people like that who just cannot do anything except make every interaction a personal one. It is exhausting to work with them.

I did fear for Rebecca, since it really was her choices which lead to the loss. But I must be affected by her HypnoEyes just like Trump -- there is something about her that I just like and I respect, even though a cold analysis of her track record does not back that up.

quaintirene

Nov 20, 2005 @ 1:27 pm

That poster mistake was deadly! Nothing says 'I don't sweat the small stuff' like putting the wrong station number on radio station promotional material. The poster should have been checked six ways from the middle, and it reflects just as badly on Rebecca as PM as it does on Randall. If you are gonna have written material of any kind it has to be proofread before it is shown. Didn't Rebecca learn anything after that typo on that cake? She was PM then, too. More than one pair of eyes have to see the text before it's signed off, because it is really easy for the originator to make a mistake and not notice. So as far as I'm concerned, Rebecca and Randall just dug a yuuuge hole for themselves which it will be difficult to climb out of.

That having been said, firing Clay was right, because there is no way he is going to make the finals. He's trouble. He's known to be trouble. He's insubordinate, and Trump cannot stand that.

azchileheads

Nov 20, 2005 @ 2:04 pm

Anyone have the thought that, given George had a radio station at one time, it was he who put the bug in the ear? They've got to be really scraping for new ideas for tasks right about now.......................I can hear the exchange now:

DT: Damn, I just can't think of anything new and different to torment these buffoons with.

George: Wellllllllll - I did own a radio station years ago, maybe we could.........

DT: THAT'S IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rhona! Get the biggest station of the phone!! We'll make them WRITE AND PRODUCE!!! IT'S GOLD!!!!!!

Oh my goodness! Please calm down! And we ask that you use standard punctuation.

Scherzo

Nov 20, 2005 @ 8:54 pm

I know Clay's lyric was "What about me?" but it made me think of this oldie from the Alan Parsons Project:

Let's talk about me for a minute
Well how do you think
I feel about what's been going on
Let's talk about me for a minute
Well how do you think
I feel about what's gone wrong[/quote]
And Rebecca's right -- it does sound whiny.

Or this (also by The Alan Parson's Project):

My eyes with your vision
My choice but always your decision
My play with your direction
Well it's my lead but always your connection

But when I look into your eyes you don't believe me
I can see it in your eyes you don't believe

My words, your expression
My land, always your possession
My song, your production
My expense is always your deduction[/quote]

It's a song about The Apprentice!

sbwm

Nov 21, 2005 @ 9:58 am

The poster mistake. Actually, I think Randal did a poor job on "the poster" as a whole. It looked like a third grade extra credit idea - "Look I included a poster with my report!" The whole presentation was poor but just one little sad small poster made it look even more lame.

mistahtrump

Nov 21, 2005 @ 1:14 pm

This was the perfect task for one of the teams to bring out that number one hit "Rubble Man."[/quote]

That would have been a perfect opportunity for Markus to chime in, "YOU KNOW WHO DIS IS?"

Followed by, "Um, this is is, fnurrr, um, you know, a guy who speaks to details"

Susan StoHelit

Nov 21, 2005 @ 3:23 pm

I think it's entirely possible Clay lost them this task - just by being a drag on the team. Dealing with Clay meant a lot of wasted time - perhaps the time needed for Rebecca to listen to the song, realize it's not quite inline with the station, and do what Felicia did - alter it a bit. There's not a lot of time on the task, the wasted hours Clay cost them could easily be the difference. Rebecca and Randal would have had a better shot at winning without Clay on the team.

And "What about me" is way, way too whiny - I hate whiny songs! Clay's ideas were pretty useless.

blackwing

Nov 21, 2005 @ 3:53 pm

debng

Nov 21, 2005 @ 3:59 pm

In my not so humble opinion, the task was not lost because of Clay's whiny song writing skills and violin playing, or Randall's poster faux pas, it was lost because they didn't take the radio station's demographic into consideration. They lost because the song, and the artist, did not match the audience. That, my friends, is the fault of the two time loser Project Manager. As much as I dislike Clay, it's Rebecca's butt that should have kissed the taxicab seat.

legaleagle44

Nov 21, 2005 @ 4:10 pm

I wouldn't necessarily blame Clay for the loss. If anything, I blame Rebecca and her going gaga over the "exotic" Nigerian, when he was completely wrong for the target audience. The task was lost the moment she went all faux-intellectual and decided that she was going to force this "interesting" and "enlightening" and "inspiring" singer onto the wrong station. Rebecca should have been fired for that alone.[/quote]

Agreed, blackwing. You hit the nail on the head as to one of the things that bothered me the most about Clay's firing. The fact is that he was right about how horrendous Rebecca's approach was, and I think his idea would have worked much better (then again, I know absolutely nothing about XM Cafe's format, so I might have been fired along with him!) Unfortunately, by that time, Clay had so alienated everyone around him that there was no way in Hell that anyone was going to give him the time of day, much less listen to him or take any of his ideas seriously.

I think the other thing that bothered me about Clay's firing (and yes, I know he brought the end result on himself) was that it directly followed his previously having been railroaded during the Boardroom following the "Sex in the Workplace" disaster, when Markus and Alla in particular tried to turn the whole thing into a referendum on Clay's sexual orientation once the "anti-Semitic" attack failed. No wonder Clay felt he was being persecuted to the point that he was ready to tell everyone to go fuck themselves; he's probably heard enough of that crap during his life that it would naturally overshadow logic and color his perception of anything critical that anyone ever said to him thereafter. In other words, I can fully understand how he would come to believe that the attacks and marginalization were all about him, rather than about his behavior.

highlander

Nov 21, 2005 @ 4:21 pm

Except that Adam and Alla did not try to make it about Clay's sexual orientation. They said that the things he said in the way he said them at The Learning Annex could have lost them points because Clay was crude. I really think that was Adam and Alla's point.

ETA: I posted before that I believe Rebecca should have been fired in this last task. Clay playing the "air violin" could have simply been ignored by Rebecca if it really bothered her.

CheekyCricket

Nov 21, 2005 @ 4:51 pm

I think that Clay's behavior was typical for him, and not something brought on by this particular competition. Off the top of my head, Josh, Alla, Randal, Rebecca, Adam and Felisha all said at various points that Clay was difficult to work with. As the numbers grow, you gotta think that Clay is doing something that aggravates others, that it's not just a fluke, or that this particular group of people had it in for Clay.

ETA: I posted before that I believe Rebecca should have been fired in this last task. Clay playing the "air violin" could have simply been ignored by Rebecca if it really bothered her.[/quote] She could, except that it's a blatant sign of disrespect for her as the PM. And if you want to irritate your PM and teammates, play the invisible violin while they're talking, so that they feel like they're making a fool out of themselves. How Not To Win Friends and Influence Others 101. She didn't explode about it, just asked him to come up with an alternate idea. Which he never really did.

The biggest problem, as George pointed out, was that Excel's song missed the target audience. The style was wrong for the XM Cafe market, and I never heard Clay citing that as a problem before the boardroom. He mentioned that he thought emphasizing Jide's personal story during the presentation was wrong, or perhaps he didn't agree on how Rebecca was framing Jide's story, but to the best of my recollection, Clay did not remark that the song didn't fit the intended format, and so his criticism missed the heart of the problem. I don't think he should be credited with too much discernment.

If the firing-decision was based on who was most responsible for the loss, then Rebecca, as the PM, should have been fired, since the PM is ultimately responsible for the concept and direction of the task. But that's only one of the reasons Trump fires candidates. Another basis for firing someone, as others have mentioned, is when, for whatever reason or combination of reasons, a candidate just isn't going to work out. It's clear that Trump didn't want Clay working for him; I suppose he could wait until the next task, or the task after, or the interviews, to fire Clay, but one way or another, Clay was going going gone . . .

Insomniac

Nov 21, 2005 @ 5:38 pm

I've always thought that firings should be based on cumulative performance. While Clay had a better win/loss stat, nearly everyone had commented that he was difficult to work with. Drop the person who disrupsts the dynamic.

I don't think Rebecca and Randal would have come up with a better song. In fact, the song was theirs, so the loss was theirs, for sure. But Clay consistently ruined the dynamic of both teams.

You either add to or detract from the work environment. Clay was the latter. And, for me, he didn't even provide entertainment value. The guy just bugs.

CheekyCricket

Nov 21, 2005 @ 6:27 pm

Well, it worked all out well for Rebecca. Instead of being fired for her poor leadership on the task, she lived to fight another day. I don't believe for a moment that Trump intended to fire Randal over the error on the sign, but he wanted to shake him up. And from the momentary look of horror crossing Randal's face, it worked.

I don't know if Clay's idea of "What About Me' could have saved them, but at least it shows that he was not in with Randal and Rebecca on their idea.

I think in the end the lyrics would not have mattered. With these narrow-focus channels, it's really the *sound* -- as a lot of us have pointed out, the task was to shape a product (a song) for a specific market. So, the Clay issue was really a side-problem -- the real winning moment for the other team was when Felisha gave the "less jazzy! more alt rock!" direction. [/quote][/quote] And, she gave directions in a way that didn't seem to offend or annoy the musicians, which could easily happen when professional musicians are working with amateurs.

For the heck of it, I googled "What About Me song lyrics" and came up with a list of songwriters/performers who'd created songs with that title, from known to mildly unknown: Keith Urban, Kris Kristofferson, Kenny Rogers, Shannon Noll, Moving Pictures, Unwritten Law, Gerard Levert, Kamelot, Lonestar, the Vandals . . . "What About Me" is a flexible concept, for sure. It might have worked, had Clay, Randal and Rebecca understood the XM Cafe audience. But since they approached the task from the wrong direction, and didn't understand the audience, adopting Clay's idea wouldn't have made a difference.

GeorgeOMalley

Nov 21, 2005 @ 6:31 pm

She could, except that it's a blatant sign of disrespect for her as the PM. And if you want to irritate your PM and teammates, play the invisible violin while they're talking, so that they feel like they're making a fool out of themselves. How Not To Win Friends and Influence Others 101. She didn't explode about it, just asked him to come up with an alternate idea. Which he never really did.
[/quote]

If Rebecce weren't so think skinned, it wouldn't have bothered her. That's why her faux boardroom bravado bugs me so much. Okay, so Clay was acting like a 12 year old. Ignore him and continue on with your thought. Stop feeding into him. All she did by chastizing him was show that he got to her.

highlander

Nov 21, 2005 @ 6:42 pm

I don't believe for a moment that Trump intended to fire Randal over the error on the sign, but he wanted to shake him up. And from the momentary look of horror crossing Randal's face, it worked. [/quote]

I agree with that. Trump did not intend to fire Randal and what I think now is Randal will go all out (a fire has been lit under him) in trying to win in his classy way of course and he will be better prepared in the boardroom. He knows what to expect and will be able to deflect criticism. This will also help Randal in the interview process. If the interviewers throw difficult questions at him to throw him off, Randal will not get rattled and he will be able to answer respectfully and yet firmly.

quaintirene

Nov 21, 2005 @ 6:59 pm

highlander

Nov 21, 2005 @ 7:08 pm

I've wiped my tape, but I believe Trump asked Rebecca if Clay was more creative than she was and she replied 'yes'. Trump then said 'well I may as well fire you now...' Later on he pointed out that what Randall did with the poster was a fireable offense. However I don't think he used the word 'fire' to Clay until he actually fired him. This, I think, is Trump's heavy-handed way of toying with his favourites. I'll be watching to see if this trend continues[/quote]

Actually, it did not go that way. Rebecca never said that Clay was more creative than her. Rebecca said that Clay was more creative than Randal. If anything, it could be said that Trump might have been toying with Randal (maybe to keep the viewers guessing who will win and keep the viewers interested or maybe because he is Trump).

AlexDS69

Nov 21, 2005 @ 7:27 pm

I don't quite understand the Clay bashing. Yeah, he may be a smug hothead. But then again, virtually EVERYONE on The Apprentice is a smug hothead, even the Donald. That's why I don't even watch the damn show. Someone should slap Donald across the face.

Susan StoHelit

Nov 21, 2005 @ 7:31 pm

I don't see Rebecca as being thin skinned - a PM needs to command the respect of their team, and letting blatant disrespect just go unchallenged is not the way to do that.

CurryMasala

Nov 21, 2005 @ 7:43 pm

AlexDS69,
Your post made me laugh so much. Yeah, TD should be slapped across the face, as should every person who talks on the cellphone while driving and who drives slowly on the highway. I honestly feel like slapping them.
Anyway, I think Rebecca had a very easy job in the first task she PMed. All she had to do was to please some senior citizens, and being women, her team already had an upper hand. Her team was technically not trained, there wasn't even a sign that lead to the event - which was pure common sense. Clearly, she decided to leave everything dealing with event management to someone else so that she could blame her. In this task, she puts up a fight in the boardroom, but she cannot do anything about Clay, which is weird. Yes, Clay is difficult to work with, but Rebecca lost the task when she chose who should sing, and did not do her homework. Last season there were rumors that Alex or someone was asked by the producers to jeopardize someone else's task and he would be included among the final four. The candidate refused to do so. Is it possible that Rebecca is being coached by the producers to behave a certain way in the boardroom? Considering that she has nothing to show for it, it could be possible. Maybe it is a long shot.

ChesireCat

Nov 21, 2005 @ 7:59 pm

I don't quite understand the Clay bashing. Yeah, he may be a smug hothead. But then again, virtually EVERYONE on The Apprentice is a smug hothead, even the Donald.[/quote]

The Donald`s probly the most smug one there. As for the other contestants not liking Clay, it`s probly becuase if they "betray" him even once, he gets all angry at them. Sometimes he can come up with good things(and I must agree with the fact that he is more creative than Randal).But, like with the Star Wars task, he can also be very lazy. He takes some of the simplest things way too seriously which, more times than not, hurts his team.

BubbaGum

Nov 21, 2005 @ 8:49 pm

The (faux) fur will fly fairly soon!
I can't wait to see the clash of the titans between Rebecca and Alla. Poor Adam will probably be the next one sent packing, though. Trump's bein' waaaay too nice to him. He and Clay will have fun at Sequesterville. It's the Odd Couple of the 21st century.

quaintirene

Nov 21, 2005 @ 9:47 pm

Highlander thanks for that. But he did say 'well maybe I should just fire you now' to Rebecca about something, before he ripped into Randall. Can you let me know what he said it about?

highlander

Nov 21, 2005 @ 10:50 pm

Sure Quaintirene,

It was either these two things: Trump asked Rebecca if Clay was more creative than Rebecca and before Rebecca could answer him, he asked if he should fire her now. Rebecca replied that Clay is not more creative than her. She said that she used to think that Clay was creative, but he did not show that on this task.
Or Clay said he was more creative and Trump asked Rebecca if he should fire her now. She gave the answer that I just described above.

Hoola

Nov 21, 2005 @ 11:15 pm

On Yahoo, watching Rebecca makes me scream. She wishes she could have had this task after her cast came off. Poor widdle girl. It really was that cast that was keeping her from understanding what the format of the radio was. I'm sure she busts ass to make sure that they see her come in on crutches right at the front of the line.

And Mr. Trump, she stepped up to step up because she hasn't stepped up in too long, Mr. Trump. And if that poster was such a major mistake, why did she not catch it? She is so full of shit.

But Trump really is enamored of her. He only asked her if Clay was more talented then she is, and she said no. Then he asked if Clay was more creative than Randal, and she said he was. He tosses her soft balls and always agrees with her when she says how awesome she is.

natashapierre

Nov 22, 2005 @ 8:38 am

Clay's whiny song writing skills and violin playing[/quote]

Much as Clay is a whiny, grudge-holding little brat, I actually take his violin playing rather differently. Seems to me that he was not disrespecting Rebecca really but trying to make the point that the presentation/story she was working up wouldn't work. ... Yeah, he should have said this in words rather than gestures, but he wasn't trying to make fun of her behind her back; he was trying to make a point, and, actually, kind of a valid point. The execs were going to want to hear the music, mostly, and telling the sad story of the boy who lost, then found, his African heritage wasn't actually going to cut the mustard. ...

CheekyCricket

Nov 22, 2005 @ 10:41 am

Sure, Clay's gesture may have had a point. If he had been able to articulate that point and come up with a concrete suggestion to improve the presentation, rather than resorting to a melodramatic gesture, then maybe his point would have had more substance. As things stood, since he couldn't think of how to make the presentation better, his point was kind of pointless.

blackwing

Nov 22, 2005 @ 11:05 am

I forgot to add that I hated that pissy little XM exec, the one in the middle who was wearing the suit. Seemed like he was the one in charge since he spoke with Trump, but he kept asking the other one (the one who looked like Peter Jackson) for advice or to confirm his opinions.

I didn't like how they kept talking to each other during the presentation or the airplay. I mean, the teams were RIGHT THERE standing in front of them. As Randal is talking about the poster, the ass whispers (loudly) about how the channel number is wrong. Then during Seal's song, he's going on about how the song doesn't fit. Then more jabbering about how "that caller just made my point". They were on the air! So incredibly rude.

Cygnia

Nov 22, 2005 @ 11:40 am

Last season there were rumors that Alex or someone was asked by the producers to jeopardize someone else's task and he would be included among the final four. The candidate refused to do so. Is it possible that Rebecca is being coached by the producers to behave a certain way in the boardroom? Considering that she has nothing to show for it, it could be possible. Maybe it is a long shot.[/quote]

Interesting theory...especially with the trailers hinting "sabotage" for this week. We're all assuming it's against the other team. What if Rebecca is all out turning on Randall?

Does it say something that eventhough the Jide song lost, THAT's the one stuck in my head?

CheekyCricket

Nov 22, 2005 @ 12:58 pm

Is it possible that Rebecca is being coached by the producers to behave a certain way in the boardroom? Considering that she has nothing to show for it, it could be possible. Maybe it is a long shot.[/quote]

Based on Rebecca's boardroom behavior in this episode, she pretty much did what most candidates in trouble have done in the past: shift blame as much as possible. I don't think anyone needs to be coached to do that, so I think it's unlikely that she's being coached.

nodoze

Nov 22, 2005 @ 2:21 pm

But Trump really is enamored of [Rebecca]. He only asked her if Clay was more talented then she is, and she said no. Then he asked if Clay was more creative than Randal, and she said he was. He tosses her soft balls and always agrees with her when she says how awesome she is. [/quote]
I think Trump is a lot smarter than that. IMO, when he asked Rebecca whether Clay or Randal was more creative, he was TESTING her, not looking for her advice. Clay has been a destructive force in nearly every task, not a creative force, while Randal has been a positive, encouraging contributor, which requires a lot of "quiet" creativity to get the work done and handle all the different personalities in a professional, business-like way! When Rebecca answered that she thought Clay was the more creative, she was wrong and sealed her own doom. She is a Dead Man Walking.

TriumphantComic

Nov 22, 2005 @ 2:54 pm

I think Trump is a lot smarter than that. IMO, when he asked Rebecca whether Clay or Randal was more creative, he was TESTING her, not looking for her advice. Clay has been a destructive force in nearly every task, not a creative force, while Randal has been a positive, encouraging contributor, which requires a lot of "quiet" creativity to get the work done and handle all the different personalities in a professional, business-like way! When Rebecca answered that she thought Clay was the more creative, she was wrong and sealed her own doom. She is a Dead Man Walking.[/quote]

I agree that Rebecca has sealed her own doom, but I disagree with HOW she sealed her own doom. Clay may have been a real prick and very difficult to get along with. However, Clay was very strong in creativity and decent in sales so Rebecca was right in saying that Clay was more creative than Randal. Randal is somewhat conservative in the creativity department in comparison to Clay. Don't get me wrong! I'm no fan of Clay, but he did have some good qualities and creativity happened to be one of those qualities. Neither Rebecca nor Randal are as creative as Clay. The problem with Clay was that he had a history of not being a team player. He also had the tendency to get on other people's nerves, especially Trump's. Trump simply didn't like Clay and was looking for an excuse to fire him. Rebecca (BITCH!) gave The Trumpster the excuse he was looking for and Clay was ultimately fired. Rebecca's two PM losses is what sealed her doom and I don't think she'll last very long. Randal was utterly disappointing on this episode and I've lost respect for him! I hope Alla wins!

legaleagle44

Nov 22, 2005 @ 3:08 pm

I agree that Rebecca has sealed her own doom, but I disagree with HOW she sealed her own doom. Clay may have been a real prick and very difficult to get along with. However, Clay was very strong in creativity and decent in sales so Rebecca was right in saying that Clay was more creative than Randal. Randal is somewhat conservative in the creativity department in comparison to Clay. Don't get me wrong! I'm no fan of Clay, but he did have some good qualities and creativity happened to be one of those qualities. Neither Rebecca nor Randal are as creative as Clay. The problem with Clay was that he had a history of not being a team player. He also had the tendency to get on other people's nerves, especially Trump's. Trump simply didn't like Clay and was looking for an excuse to fire him. Rebecca (BITCH!) gave The Trumpster the excuse he was looking for and Clay was ultimately fired. Rebecca's two PM losses is what sealed her doom and I don't think she'll last very long. Randal was utterly disappointing on this episode and I've lost respect for him! I hope Alla wins![/quote]

Word and a half, TriumphantComic, and I hope Clay is there to gloat when she does. At least Alla tried to make peace with him after the "Sex at Work" disaster--and she would have succeeded, too, if Adam hadn't butted in with his bitchy two cents. Talk about rubbing salt into an already open wound!

Hoola

Nov 22, 2005 @ 3:17 pm

Trump never asked if Clay was more creative than Rebecca, just more talented, which can mean many things and is more inclusive of other skills that Rebecca thinks she has. I don't think she could have maintained her Honesty and Integrity if she had said that she thought she was more creative than Clay.

Trump gives her easy ways out in the boardroom all the time.
Trump: "Rebecca, everyone thinks you're awesome, do you?"
Rebecca: "Yes, Mr. Trump, I've been touted every week for my awesomeness, Mr. Trump."
Trump: "You are very honest, aren't you? Clay, isn't she honest?"
Clay: "Well, I hope you know I'm honest, too."
Trump: "Clay, I know everyone hates you and thinks you suck the soul out of life!"

I didn't have a problem with the violin either. If that's all it takes to bring a team down, then the team isn't functioning very well. I thought Rebecca was telling a sob story and her entire idea of having to take charge of Jide's life story and tell it to the clients so they can understand how much SHE was impressed was very self-involved.

nodoze

Nov 22, 2005 @ 3:51 pm

Clay was very strong in creativity [/quote]
The only thing I remember Clay "creating" was a lot of enmity...and that awful lecture he gave on sex in the office, which probably was responsible for his team's loss because Clay's talk was thoughtless, stupid--stupid---and offensive in so many, many ways. He contributed next to nothing as PM on the Star Wars task and missed several important points (which Alla filled in) about the display during his final presentation to the execs. On the last task, Rebecca was correct to discard Clay's "What About Me" song title because it could ring the wrong bell in many adults: those "me-me-me" words can sound immature and selfish. All in all, I see Clay's behavior on "The Apprentice" as destructive to doing business, not creative. On the other hand, Randal and Alla have created success and have the respect of their colleagues.

NotTheBox

Nov 22, 2005 @ 5:32 pm

At least Alla tried to make peace with him after the "Sex at Work" disaster--and she would have succeeded, too, if Adam hadn't butted in with his bitchy two cents. Talk about rubbing salt into an already open wound![/quote]

I see it differently. Alla may have tried to make peace at one point, I'm not saying she didn't. But after they all returned from the boardroom and had their huddle and excluded Clay, at Alla's suggestion, that was the end of any chance to make peace. Whether Clay was right or wrong to be so upset, I felt like after the boardroom, and after he had time to calm down, the situation could have been salvaged if he and Adam had had a chat. There were misunderstandings on both their parts that needed to be cleared up. I'm not saying it would have necessarily worked, but I was disappointed they didn't at least try.

I have been in similar situations where, after everyone cools down, you can have a meeting of the minds and sometimes actually improve a working relationship. Of course this only happens when all parties are mature and WANT to improve the working relationship, and I guess this show is not really that situation since someone is going to be leaving soon anyway, and you hope it's the one you can't stand. That's one of the things that can be frustrating to me about the show. It's not so much about solving your problems as capitalizing on other peoples problems.

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