TWoP Forums > 4-9: "One Hit Blunder" 2005.11.17

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TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery

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JTMacc99

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:16 pm

I agree with everyone who said that this task was incredibly misguided. There needs to be something a little bit more accountable, especially this late in the game, when deciding who the winner of the task is. [/quote]I kinda-sorta disagree.

The task was stupid. No argument from me on that one.

But, this point in the game is EXACTLY when we need a pointless task. Getting down from six to four is the time where we need to toss out the losers who have either survived by luck or for entertainment purposes. This is where we toss out the Heidi, the Katrina, and the Crazy Chris. Even unpredictible Trump knows that he's got to get rid of the dregs, so it really doesn't matter what happens during the task.

Princess Louie

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:19 pm

The error was worth a bit of discssion, then once it was explained, Trump should have dropped it. For Trump to even mention it as a fireable offense has killed any little shreds of credibility he may have had left in my mind...Anyone can make a mistake, but few people can own up to it as readily and graciously as Randal did. I could also see from the way he beat himself up about it that he'll probably never make the same kind of error again...If the task had been to come up with a poster, and that's all they had to work on, then it would have been much more serious. But as George said, it wasn't why they lost.[/quote]

I think the whole point of that BR discussion was for Trump to challenge Randall and see how he reacted. You can call it the Amy (TA Season 1) test. Remember her? Always on winning teams, little Boardroom experience - when she got to the Final 4 she was totally unprepared for the tough one-on-one interviews where her answers were challenged and she had to think quickly on her feet and defend herself.

Same thing with Randall - he's the Amy of this season - overall best performer, class act all the way. Sure, his mistake wasn't a big deal, but Trump (who, for all his faults, is not stupid) wanted to see how Randall would react to being criticized.

And, unfortunately, Randall didn't handle it too well. It shouldn't have been George who pointed out that Randall's mistake isn't why they lost - it should have been Randall. And he should have smacked right back to Rebecca, pointing out it was her responsibility to manage Clay. True, Clay's not manageable, but my point is that Randall should have fought back. He didn't. He could have put a little dent in Rebecca's armor, and I suspect he will regret that missed opportunity.

Sure, Rebecca's all about the Boardroom, but what we've seen of TA: Donald is that, since the beginning, Boardroom skills are, if anything, more important than task skills. Which I think is a weakness - I realized this fall that I prefer TA: Martha because she actually pays attention to how they perform in the task.

Meanwhile, I was amazed when Alla praised Felisha's project management skills in a confessional. I'm so used to confessionals where the contestants trash each other. Woinder what will happen when THEY have to turn on each other?

Chicagoland

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:24 pm

People here are "shocked" that George owned a Hard Rock station. Well, "Hard Rock" dates back over 36 years at least. If he owned an FM rock station in the 70's, it would be when he was like 40.

Also, Jacob says "what does this have to do with Real Estate"? Well, nothing, but the show is about businesses, and sorry musicologists, radio is a business.

Every show can't be about renovating properties, that is pretty much over done on TV.

And Bye Bye Clay! I don't think you will be on the cover of The Advocate, you're not "Queer Celeb" material!

RhondaGC

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:34 pm

Aaaaaaahhhhh!!!!! I hated this task. What if you've never listened to an adult alternative station before? How would you know what the right sound is? [/quote]
ITA. I think this task, more than perhaps any other, asked the candidates to do something that was way outside their ability and knowledge level. I mean, even if you've never worked at Burger King before, you've probably at least been there and have a fundamental idea of how a restaurant works. But asking people who have no background, training, or ability in music to write a song to appeal to a target audience (and in less than 48 hours, too!) seemed quite unfair to me. It's not remotely related to anything these people will be doing for Trump. At least most of the others tasks, even if they don't involve real estate, involve either marketing or sales, both of which figure into the Trumpverse so I don't mind so much what particular industry it's being conducted in. But this task just seemed wrong for this show. It's probably my least favorite task ever.

I didn't hear an alternative rock song from either team. Both te were typical. For my personal taste, Jide was better, but that's inconsequential.[/quote]
ITA this also. I thought the other song (with the guy who was not Jide) was nice, but it was certainly nothing new. It sounded just about like every other pop ballad I've heard in the last 20 years. In fact, it sounded a lot like something Michael Bolton would sing. Jide's song may not have been great and may not have suited the audience, but at least it was somewhat more original and a whole lot more interesting, IMO.

Loved George when he told his story about working for a radio station--"He asked me how I liked the music. I said I hated it. He said 'It's bringing in ad revenue', I said 'I love it!'" Big HEE! I *heart* George. Since both my grandpas are dead I'd like to adopt him and bring him home to spoil my kids.

CheekyCricket

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:35 pm

While I thought that expecting future businesspeople to be songwriters was a bit much, there were some interesting skills necessary in this task: management of musicians (usually considered free spirits who let things come naturally) in order to benefit a specific company, presentation skills, and producing a product to fit your subscribers.[/quote]
That's similar to how I viewed the task: as a marketing/management task with a creative element, and not as a strictly "creative" task because the teams worked with the artists to create the songs, but they didn't seem to be writing the songs themselves. Producing and marketing songs is definitely a business, and not a purely artistic venture. Also, the producers and studio musicians had a big role. I did wonder if perhaps the producers deliberately started out with musical styles that would be incompatible with XM Cafe (or rather, were directed to start out with incompatible musical styles) to see how the teams would respond.

I actually liked the task because it was business-oriented yet had a creative element. I'd rather watch that than watch teams hawking ice cream on the streets anyday. I'm not in the target audience for XM Cafe, but I could tell right away that Excel's song was mismatched with the format. It would work better in something like an adult urban contemporary format, or perhaps even a world-beat format, depending.

I think Jide could have won if they let him be himself instead of writing that stupid song for him. The song he did for his interview was great! They ruined him![/quote]I basically agree--I don't know that I'd call the song "great," but it would have fit better than what Excel ended up with, which was too dance-clubby. From my general understanding of the XM Cafe format, Jide's vocal style could work if the song was produced differently; say, with minimal instrumental accompaniment and an emphasis on the melody rather than on the background track.

By missing the format and the targeted audience, Excel flubbed up on the business aspect of the task, not so much on the creative aspect, since the songs both sounded marketable--to the right audience.

highlander

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:36 pm

Meanwhile, I was amazed when Alla praised Felisha's project management skills in a confessional. I'm so used to confessionals where the contestants trash each other. Woinder what will happen when THEY have to turn on each other?[/quote]

I think they will do what Kwame and Troy did in their boardroom. They will recognize that although they like each other, only one can survive the boardroom (assuming it's down to the two of them in the boardroom) and do what they came here for in the first place-to be the apprentice.

musichic2000

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:51 pm

...

natashapierre

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:55 pm

Hey guys? I really need someone to explain to me how anything on this episode related to what Trump would actually have an apprentice doing for him. [/quote]

Well, you did have to figure out exactly what somebody's market niche was, and then tailor something to fit it .... That's a common element of lots of business tasks.

Pretty weird to have to write a *song* to fit it, of course, but, given that they were working with a group of professional musicians, what they mostly had to do was just think up a couple of lyrical/musical hooks and then nudge those musicians to produce exactly the right kind of sound to back the hooks. ...

The idea of finding out what your customer wants/will respond to has been a common element of a lot of the tasks, and that clearly is something that you have to be clued into all the time as a businessperson. Silly as some of the tasks are, we've certainly been given a pretty good view of who does and who doesn't get this basic point by now, I'd say.

ajesquire

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:57 pm

Okay, a few morning after thoughts:

1) I think the task was essentially lost on the artist selection. The first group to audition (although we only saw a few seconds) looked and sounded like the epitome of a "cafe" genre band. I was really suprised they selected Jide, but:

2) (I want to be careful here, but) I also thought there was a subtle, politically-correct patronizing aspect to Rebecca's decision there. She kept talking about the "sophisticated" listeners for that XM channel and how they'd respond to this young man from Africa. The task was to sell a song, not a biography, and assuming that a certain ill-defined demographic will reflexively like a song because you perceive that they'll respond to the singer's biography is questionable.

3) Clay, "what about me"? Project much, buddy?

4) Hearing Trump talk about owning the ground under the ESB, did anyone else flash back to Rodney in Caddyshack ("we just bought land at the Great Wall of China . . . on the Good Side!")?

ajesquire

Nov 18, 2005 @ 1:00 pm

Though I wonder if it will be a clip show for one half like last season.
[/quote]

If I heard correctly, next week was described as "back to back" episodes, or some such language that suggested it wasn't simply a single two-hour episode.

And since they said the final four will be revealed, and we're already down to the final five, your suspicion about a recap episode makes sense.

lyric

Nov 18, 2005 @ 1:04 pm

Songwriters everywhere must have been seething. I have to imagine they must have been given the melody, otherwise they took on a lot in one day. The music wasn't that different from what I hear all the time, which isn't good, but it's on the air. How did they manage that?
[/quote]

I honest to God haven't bothered with this show much since season 2 and had not seen any of it this time around.

But I watched last night just because of the TiVo description of the task, and because I can loosely be described as one of those "songwriters everywhere," and I just had to see what kind of trainwreck it would be to see them do a songwriting task. I was ready to mock.

So I'm sitting there kind of half-watching on one TiVo tuner while flipping around on the other...and all of the sudden in the Jide(sp?) studio scene I'm going, "hey...hey....HEY! I think that's Jeff Cohen!!! I KNOW HIM! (Friend of a friend.)

TiVo rewind/freeze frame had me convinced, at least 80% or so. Since he was on screen for all of about three seconds and it's hard to be 100% certain.

I'll admit, I probably own a lot of CDs XM Cafe (or Sirius Coffeehouse) probably builds their playlists from, and a lot of indie acoustic singer/songwriter stuff from artists most people haven't heard much about...including Jeff's first "Pancho's Lament" project.

I imagined lots of unseen co-writing going on with the "musicians and producers" they hooked the teams up with. Just get a couple of guys who can take someone else's ideas and whip out some kind of reasonable pop song in about a day. And know how to produce a demo/record pretty fast.

So...the episode kind of cracked me up. In a good way. (Can't wait to run into Jeff again and give him a hard time. Heh.)

Also cracking me up?

What is a "true Apprentice"? Are they going to burn their hand like Johnny Tremaine?[/quote]

Classic. (Loved that book.)

CheekyCricket

Nov 18, 2005 @ 1:16 pm

(I want to be careful here, but) I also thought there was a subtle, politically-correct patronizing aspect to Rebecca's decision there. She kept talking about the "sophisticated" listeners for that XM channel and how they'd respond to this young man from Africa. The task was to sell a song, not a biography, and assuming that a certain ill-defined demographic will reflexively like a song because you perceive that they'll respond to the singer's biography is questionable.[/quote]
I'd say the XM Cafe target audience demographic is well-defined, but Rebecca's conception of that demographic was ill-defined. (I'm not sure if that's what you meant, maybe so.) But the larger point seems to pick up on what someone wrote earlier.

But today, [Rebecca] seemed much more pretentious undergrad student to me. I mean, I went to a quote-unquote prestigious liberal arts school, used the word "meta" in ordinary conversation, wrote papers on post-modernism and all that fun stuff, but something in the way she was trying to put together the "intellectual" listeners with the Nigerian-identity issue seemed very stereotypical of that kind of mode of thought--very consciously urbane and sophisticated and post-colonial and whatever. And in all honesty, I would have been uncomfortable putting together this whole spin on how Jide used to run away from his heritage but is now embracing it--at least as a middle-class white girl making the presentation. [/quote]
I think I'm following the point here. And I'd be a bit uncomfortable with it too. However, what was curious to me was Rebecca's conclusion that the XM Cafe audience is "intellectual" in the way that you've described. If I understand the targeted audience, they might be relatively affluent, and college-educated, but "intellectual," I dunno. Or maybe it's better to say that when that particular audience wants more intellectually challenging music, they listen to another station. What they want from the XM Cafe seems to be soft alternative rock/pope geared toward relaxation, enjoyment, good times, maybe some wry observations on life, a la Tori Amos or Elvis Costello, and touches of gentle irony, but not songs which are intended to challenge the audience intellectually. As the one caller mentioned, he heard Levi's song as he was driving home from work, and it lifted his spirits, or cheered him up, or whatever. I'm also puzzled by why anyone would think that the song Excel created would be considering "intellectually challenging" music. Eh, what?

I was all about Adam during the reward. I almost started crying when he started talking about how his dad came over with nothing, and now here he is in the yoogest helicopter looking at the yoogest buildings with the yoogest douchebag in the world. It was obviously genuine and heartfelt.[/quote]
And he was so touchingly unaware that he was with the yoogest douchebag in the world. It was all so wonderful to him. Probably that's why he looked so appropriate in his Padawan attire last week.

Insomniac

Nov 18, 2005 @ 1:26 pm

It shouldn't have been George who pointed out that Randall's mistake isn't why they lost - it should have been Randall. And he should have smacked right back to Rebecca, pointing out it was her responsibility to manage Clay. True, Clay's not manageable, but my point is that Randall should have fought back.[/quote]

Randal owned his mistake. His class came shining through again, and, by doing so, put a postive spotlight on himself. I think he knew it was a minor error. Maybe he didn't. I don't remember the order of criticism in the BR, but if it was mentioned later, he may have realized it wasn't a mistake of catastophic proportions.

Throwing the blame to Rebecca because she's PM and should have realized...the common mantra of the one who makes a mistake, is childish. But Daddy Trump, it was really her/his fault. Don't ground me!

ajesquire

Nov 18, 2005 @ 1:26 pm

but Rebecca's conception of that demographic was ill-defined. (I'm not sure if that's what you meant, maybe so.)[/quote]

Cheeky, you're right, and that is what I meant (I should've been more precise).

I think the earlier post you quoted captures my feelings as well.

I'm not suggesting that Rebecca is racist or anything like that. But I think her conception of the target audience was a group of beret and black-turtleneck wearing suburbanites with "Free Tibet" bumperstickers who consider themselves culturally diverse because they own Paul Simon's Graceland.

On the contrary, I think you're description of the "Cafe" genre listener is probably right on the mark.

Jeebus Shuttlesworth

Nov 18, 2005 @ 1:35 pm

What makes his mistake even worse is that the channel that was misprinted was XM 65. I have XM and listen to this particular station occassionally. It's "The Rhyme", which is older hip-hop, which is completely uncensored. I can imagine someone tuning in with the expectation of hearing innocuous adult contemporary and instead getting, for example, the very explicit and uncensored Gin and Juice.
[/quote]
Randall's poster was only for the executives, not the public. If the task had been to make a billboard to advertise XM, then yes, it would've been a big mistake. But even the executive seemed to think it was no big deal.

(I want to be careful here, but) I also thought there was a subtle, politically-correct patronizing aspect to Rebecca's decision there. She kept talking about the "sophisticated" listeners for that XM channel and how they'd respond to this young man from Africa. The task was to sell a song, not a biography, and assuming that a certain ill-defined demographic will reflexively like a song because you perceive that they'll respond to the singer's biography is questionable.[/quote]
Agreed. I think she was trying to capitalize on white liberal guilt and hipsterism. It's the same reason why people like that Indian rapper M.I.A. Rebecca misunderstood the task's objectives, which was to sell the song to listeners. They would not care that Jide is from the streets of Nigeria, because they wouldn't know that. And she misjudged the audience, who are definitely not adventureous or hip in any way. Jide was saying some things that Whitey wasn't ready to hear, like having fast, loud drums.

CheekyCricket

Nov 18, 2005 @ 1:55 pm

Jide and Levi both seem like good guys, and I hope they don't take too much guff for "selling out."[/quote] I'd be the last person to fault them for wanting to make a living. I remember the lifestyle Levi described only all too well. The press release on the XM Radio site said that there'd be featured programs on both of the artists, the making of the episode, etc. running through the weekend. How many unsigned singer/songwriters have that sort of opportunity? I realize that XM Radio is still a relatively limited audience, but since a sizable proportion of that audience are willing to pay a subscription service to hear music, that's a promising situation.

heebiejeebie

Nov 18, 2005 @ 1:56 pm

Rebecca broke her ankle, not her brain. That still works. She is not a very good leader at all. Her inexperience shows. On this task, when she was going over what she wanted to say on her presentation and Clay started playing the "air" violin and being difficult she really spent too much time argung with Clay about it. Alla would have told him "cut it" and then she would have focused on her presentation. Rebecca did not utilize Clay well but seemed to get more frustrated over time. Alla would have stayed focused[/quote]

Well I'll agree with you and disagree. Rebecca is a bad leader. But what is worse she just is not as bright and lacks a credible amount of common sense. How hard was it to look at the entire presentation area of the the first task and not realize what a disater it was? They did not lose the task on individial areas so much as the person in charge never once took note that "hey, this all sucks". Which was Rebecca's job. Rebecca was quality control. And Trump kept her. I think not so much in terms of crush as much as he felt she mihgt make the show interesting with her ballsy stick-to-her-guns attitude. Which, by the way, Trump, is not a mark of honesty per-se and not exactly a trait you want in a leader in terms of Rebecca's absolute example. Custer stuck to his guns too.

As for Alla? I'm not sure that Alla would have done any better. Just different. I think she would have snapped or been snide and gotten Clay's pris-feathers ruffled. I know many think Alla handled Clay well in the past. But I don't agree. Mainly because there is a point in which Clay cannot be handled well period. But I also think Alla has always been able to deal with Clay froma position of group strength. It is Alla and the team against Clay.

What Rebecca should have down was laugh with Clay even if she flet she wanted to kill him. Agree it was maybe too much. Get a pen and paper hand it to Clay asn ask him to take notes for them all to discuss after she went through it one entire time to then go over. She made something confrontation that should ahve been constructive. With Alla and Clay it would have been clash of the Divas. Alla would have won. But it would not have been managed. Which is where I see the difference. Alla is not a leader fromw hat I have seen. She is a boss. I think she marginalizes Clay but even on the sorting good task she had no good words for until after they had won. She marginalized him. Which is jut as much CLay's fault if not more. But I want to see someone actually manage Clay. And in this entire bunch of yahoos, not even Clay managed to do that.

In hindsight, I think Trump was determined to keep Rebecca no matter what and punish Clay be heaving him before the "they are all so great" interview stage. As much as Alla is so not executive material, she is more effective and more creative than Rebecca by far. It would be a shame if Rebecca went to the final two as I can see the interview process being the perfect forum for Trump to get rid of a woman that is still incredibly rough around the edges and overall is only one of the best of the worst. Because this was the second task that Rebecca lost. A task that was lost due to oversight. Which falls in the PM's purview.

Clay was going no matter what. Rebecca's history in no way should have made her more viable than Clay. To me blind adherence to a fuck-up associate is just as bad if not worse than someone who might be difficult to work with. And it was interesting that in all the little historical context Trump laid out, Rebecca's failures were never mentioned once. It was like she had Weapons of Mass Destruction hidden on her at some point.

If XM Radio was hoping to gain a larger audience through this episode, I think they are the biggest losers here because both songs were so very dull and nowhere near the alt. rock or indie rock they are supposedly about. I think both artists had talent, but were constrained by the boring lyrics and mediocre music.[/quote]

I was surprised that XM took their little run with the Apprentic whore like they did. Why not have the teams come up with a format for a possible new station on XM (hard with all that already exist but still)? Or even who can sell the most of their latest handheld radios or something athat actually made the company look like something people would want to subscribe to. Excel wasn't the only team to fail in their task. Yes they got some free visisibilty. But the direction they took with the task (I would think they would have at least a tiny bit of input) wa about as effective as...as..hiring Rebecca to oversee a presentation including stations and refreshments.

Princess PJ

Nov 18, 2005 @ 2:03 pm

This task and this episode just depressed me. Jacob nailed it in the recaplet when he said that both songs were boring, but that the real race was to see who came up with the right kind of boring.

I already knew that Clear Channel (owners of XM Radio) were evil, and that the state of radio music was dire, but for one of my favorite TV shows to drive that nail home for me was so, so painful.

CheekyCricket

Nov 18, 2005 @ 2:16 pm

I already knew that Clear Channel (owners of XM Radio) were evil, and that the state of radio music was dire, but for one of my favorite TV shows to drive that nail home for me was so, so painful.[/quote]
XM Radio has umpteen formats, including most genres of music, talk, sports, etc. since it's a satellite broadcasting service, and not just one station. XM Cafe is only one of the stations, and certainly not the most innovative, or even the one that's most representative of what you can find on XM Radio. But I wouldn't expect the XM Radio executives to feature one of the more innovative formats on an Apprentice task. Instead, I'd expect them to choose the one that they thought would appeal to much of the Apprentice demographic, and that's pretty much what they did. They may well pick up subscribers.

JTMacc99

Nov 18, 2005 @ 2:21 pm

Clay was going no matter what. Rebecca's history in no way should have made her more viable than Clay. To me blind adherence to a fuck-up associate is just as bad if not worse than someone who might be difficult to work with. And it was interesting that in all the little historical context Trump laid out, Rebecca's failures were never mentioned once. [/quote]I don't have any problem with the points you raise about Rebecca, but I just can't agree with this point.

Clay is not "someone who might be difficult to work with." Clay is a selfish asshole of monumental proportions. I could find a spot to put Rebecca in my organization where she would be useful. There is no place I could put Clay. Well, maybe telemarketer, but other than that, nothing.

So at this point, I think it was completely reasonable to fire Clay over Rebecca because Clay's history showed me that he is unemployable. (I'm not saying that I would run out and offer Rebecca a job either, I just don't agree with the argument that she was more cobra-deserving than Clay.)

Nadias O Face

Nov 18, 2005 @ 2:31 pm

The press release on the XM Radio site said that there'd be featured programs on both of the artists, the making of the episode, etc. running through the weekend. How many unsigned singer/songwriters have that sort of opportunity? I realize that XM Radio is still a relatively limited audience, but since a sizable proportion of that audience are willing to pay a subscription service to hear music, that's a sweet deal.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. Plus, there's the name recognition factor that comes from being prominently featured on national TV and a bunch of major websites (there doesn't seem to be link on NBC's site but XM has a streaming set up through Akamai, so apparently they're expecting quite a bit of traffic).

Even if only 10% of the show's audience figure "hey, I like that song", and only 10% of those people actually go and order the CD you're still looking at a significant amount of sales, especially for an independant artist. I don't know about Jidé (not my kind of music) but Levi's CD is still sold out at CDBaby.

I was surprised that XM took their little run with the Apprentic whore like they did. Why not have the teams come up with a format for a possible new station on XM (hard with all that already exist but still)? Or even who can sell the most of their latest handheld radios or something athat actually made the company look like something people would want to subscribe to.[/quote]

I was expecting something along those lines as well when I heard this task was going to be about XM radio. I have to admit I was pretty surprised that they didn't at least mention that XM receiver gizmo (or at least give us a close-up of it) whilst Trump was fake-listening in the limo. I think they even added a radio-filter sound effect that was clearly audible when they switched from the interior shots of Trump to the exterior shots of NY.

Now I am no big fan of satellite radio because, frankly, I don't see what the point is (I usually have my iPod hooked up to my car stereo) but I have driven rental cars with built-in XM receivers (not the handheld gadget type Trump had) and the sound quality was superb. In fact, I'd say it was pretty damn close to CD quality and it definitely sounded better than it seemed on the show.

If I was an XM executive, I'd be pretty pissed because all a person who hasn't heard of XM learned about the product is a) it's satellite radio (which is better why?), b) there's lots of stations (great but not a big selling point since I only have one set of ears and, once I've found a station I like, that really doesn't matter to me), c) they seem to take their listener's calls (which... isn't a good thing, in my book -- I can usually make up my mind about a song without the assistance of some Joe Sixpack) and d) they don't have a problem with playing songs that random reality show contestants managed to write and produce in a single day.

They didn't mention the superior audio quality, their talk radio content, the fact that it's commercial-free or really anything at all.

gastrolyor

Nov 18, 2005 @ 2:32 pm

It's the same reason why people like that Indian rapper M.I.A.[/quote]

She's from Sri Lanka, actually. And she's not very popular with adults, from what I understand -- her primary demographic seems to be college students and "hipsters." Her father was involved (to what degree is hotly debated on message boards) with the Tamil Tigers, a terrorist group/liberation organization (it depends on where you stand) that invented suicide bombing and is fighting for its own country.

M.I.A. is actually a good example, as I think that's where Rebecca's mind was. U of C is a very isolated school, despite being in Chicago -- it's in Hyde Park, which is not the nicest area of the city, so students there are insulated in their own little academic world. As a recent undergraduate, I'd bet that she was still applying that experience. Selling Jide and his heritage probably would have gone over gangbusters as a U of C concert, but as a radio listner, I don't care. I just want something I can listen to. That said, I liked Jide's song, but picking him just because of his story was a poor choice, I think.

I wonder if she's ever listened to World Cafe on NPR. That would have been a much better fit for Jide, although that song may have been too poppy even for that. Looking at the XM Cafe info others have posted, it sounds like the station is what you'd hear at Starbucks -- rockers with names that appeal to the baby-boomer generation, in-offensive pop-rock/lite-rock/adult alternative, and nothing too extreme.

I'm surprised none of them looked for a Damien Rice-ish figure; I think he would have been perfect for the station. Aside from the slip-up in understanding the audience, however, I thought Rebecca did a fairly decent job as PM; certainly she performed as well as Kwame. I'm not sure what Randal was thinking with the promotional materials, since it seems like the point of the task was to sell the song to the audience more than the XM executives; the majority of the win seemed to be determined by whether or not the audience liked the song. And ... well, you can't hear a poster over the air. Oy.

Princess PJ

Nov 18, 2005 @ 2:35 pm

CheekyCricket, I know you're right about there being lots and lots of things to choose from on XM, and that they probably picked the "adult contemporary" station to appeal to the Apprentice mainstream viewers.

What bothers me about the whole thing, though, and what this episode made painfully clear, is how rigid and unforgiving radio "formatting" is, and how as a concept, it straight-jackets music. The XM listeners didn't like Jide because he wasn't just plain boring, like they're used to and they want, but he's boring with a slight R&B edge, so he's bad and it's wrong and they're upset.

I have a BA in music, so this sort of thing really irritates me. Music is supposed to spill over and influence itself in other styles, and the way modern radio has everything partitioned off so that everyone is conditioned to listen to only one type of music infuriates me. And in my opinion, Clear Channel has a lot to do with that movement. Which is why I was so [maternal expletive] depressed about this whole episode.

Princess Louie

Nov 18, 2005 @ 2:53 pm

Throwing the blame to Rebecca because she's PM and should have realized...the common mantra of the one who makes a mistake, is childish. But Daddy Trump, it was really her/his fault. Don't ground me! [/quote]

I see your point, and I agree with you that Randall is a class act. In fact, if anything, Randall is too good for Trump. The problem for Randall is that this show does not necessarily reward class (it came closest in Season 1). I'm concerned that Randall is not prepared for what's coming when it gets down to the Final 4 - for which I think he is a lock.

Did Trump ever ask Randall whether Rebecca did a good job? I can't remember. If he did, what was the answer?

TheWildBoo

Nov 18, 2005 @ 3:06 pm

What is a "true Apprentice"? Are they going to burn their hand like Johnny Tremaine?[/quote]

OMG!! Flashbacks to 7th grade! I thought we were the only English class on the face of the earth who had to read that book! And I haven't given it one moment of thought since until now. Hee![/quote]

I used to think that too, but every so often someone makes a reference like this one, and after a while I realized just about everyone had to read this book. I still don't know why... but maybe if I read it again 12 years after the fact I'd figure it out.

Insomniac

Nov 18, 2005 @ 3:13 pm

There is no place I could put Clay. Well, maybe telemarketer, but other than that, nothing.[/quote]

Either a guy that would have customers calling to complain about him, or the telemarketer you gleefully play with and then hang up. (Hey, it's Jerry Seinfeld who came up with the idea of playing with them. I would never do such a thing?)

Leo Jay

Nov 18, 2005 @ 3:41 pm

I want Randall to win, but I think Alla's best for the job. Can't see Randall as one of Trumps right-hand men, and frankly, I think Trump probably doesn't have much respect for "intellectual types" anyway, lip service notwithstanding. Alla seems to be hungry and smart, and though I can't stand her, she's probably the best fit for Trump. Not to mention the fact that she's already in Real Estate and has a passion for it. Should be a slam dunk.

I agree with the poster that said that although the task was kind of a 'WTF' on the surface, it was good to see what they would do when pushed out of their comfort zone.

Also, though Trump's characterization of Randall's mistake as 'fireable' was way overblown, it was a good test of how Randall handles pressure and criticism. He does seem a bit thin-skinned, perhaps a bit too used to always being the star and golden boy.

Was Jeff Cohen really on this episode? I missed much of the first half hour. I was his RA in college.

jm chen

Nov 18, 2005 @ 3:59 pm

Also, though Trump's characterization of Randall's mistake as 'fireable' was way overblown, it was a good test of how Randall handles pressure and criticism. He does seem a bit thin-skinned, perhaps a bit too used to always being the star and golden boy.[/quote]
Absolutely. It was a minor mistake, yet he flinched, and Rebecca made some fairly mild statements about him not doing things right, and his panic was plain on his face every time. He did a great job owning up to the mistake, but he should have gone on to point out that it was not what lost them the task. Maybe he did and we just didn't see it.

Clay didn't lose them the task either, but I was still glad to see him go. It was time.

Nadias O Face

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:00 pm

Did Trump ever ask Randall whether Rebecca did a good job? I can't remember. If he did, what was the answer?[/quote]
No, he didn't - at least not that we saw. I just went back and checked.

stopeslite

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:02 pm

does that make Alla Jessie "I'm so excited" Spano?[/quote]

Hee! Incredibly appropriate, since Elizabeth Berkeley's next gig after Jessie was on Showgirls...

rsenor

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:02 pm

think Trump has a crush on Rebecca. Her boardroom skills are almost hypnotic. Everytime she goes to the boardroom she seems to come out stronger than before.[/quote]

She has that journalists background, which probably makes her even better in a boardroom than a lawyer...she doesn't get her cage rattled easily.

What is with all the rebecca hate? I think she did a decent job, except for the 2 seconds of her presentation, which...can you really judge her on it?

irishlulu

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:05 pm

She says just what she needs to say, she is eloquent, well-reasoned, succinct, and non-whiny. And Trump laps it up like a kitten at the milk bowl.[/quote]
Trump likes the sound of his name and Rebecca knows that and uses it in almost every sentence...MIS-TER TRUM-P... If we had to take a drink every time she said it, we'd all be drunk.

I preferred Jide's style to Levi. But then I don't listen to XM, only to FM, because it's FREE!!

risingsun

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:08 pm

After watching some of the extended footage, it seemed that Felisha really did lead this task with substantial input from Adam regarding the songwriting. Snark if you will, but I hauled ass over to Levi's website and got myself on the waitlist for his CD. Plus I think he's sexy [/blush]. My car is XM ready and I've spoken to
Mr. Sun about getting it hooked up, while I get hooked up with Levi. Stop that...slaps self! Anyway, that episode sold this viewer on the possibility of XM and I have a new fangirly crush. Not bad for CE, IMHO. I also agree with the poster upthread that this task was good experience for the apprentice wannabes. Managing a team, targeting and performing a task accurately and satisfying your client is good business. As good or better demonstration of skills than dog washing, selling lemonade, making and selling candybars, designing a pizza--dear God--and countless other forms of dreck packaged as business assignments.

cudareef

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:13 pm

I wish they didn't show that preview of Donald pointing to his far left and saying you're fired. It took away the suspense of who would be fired last episode.

Randal doesn't seem to have the poise that Kwame had in the boardroom. Randal made that face two times, after Marshawn and Brian were fired and when Trump told Randal that the number thing may be a firing offense. Calm down Randal.

No surprise that Rebecca warmed to having Clay on her team. I don't think she cares if everyone hates Clay (like how everyone hated Toral), if she sees potential in that person she likes that person I think. I'm surprised Randal in the deleted footage on yahoo accepted having Clay on their team instead of telling Rebecca why don't we wait and see what happens and hopefully they would get Adam, if not Felisha or Adam instead of Clay.

If Randal didn't make that mistake and instead Rebecca did, I think Rebecca would have been fired. Because Trump probably would have brought up Rebecca being 0-2 and Clay being 2-0. Rebecca would be like Chris, a favorite of Trump and Clay would be like Markus, someone Trump dislikes. I'm referring to week 2 on the show. Despite Trump liking Rebecca, he would fire her because of her record over Clay. That is what I think.

andrewd

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:16 pm

Trump seems to be drifting further and further away from the concepts of a) meaningful, relevant tasks[/quote]

I think that the ultimate goal of the "The Apprentice" process is to test adaptability, leadership, organizational skills and ability to work hard. Obviously, songwriting has nothing to do with Trump enterprises, but it is an interesting test to see how these people react and adapt to a situation that they are likely uncomfortable with.

What bothers me about the whole thing, though, and what this episode made painfully clear, is how rigid and unforgiving radio "formatting" is, and how as a concept, it straight-jackets music. The XM listeners didn't like Jide because he wasn't just plain boring, like they're used to and they want, but he's boring with a slight R&B edge, so he's bad and it's wrong and they're upset.
[/quote]

In a way, isn't the positive side of satellite radio that you can have a large number of channels thus offering a variety of niches? In essence, something for everyone. I agree that the problem here was that Jide simply did not fit the format of that particular XM channel. There is likely another "pigeonhole" in XM's line-up for an artist like Jide. The mistake was that Rebecca did not find an artist to fit the profile of the target channel's market.

I guess what I am getting at is that satellite radio allows for a large number of channels, and thus formats, so that, in the end, you will have the opportunity to listen to a greater variety than you do now.

I want Randall to win, but I think Alla's best for the job. Can't see Randall as one of Trumps right-hand men[/quote]

Word.

I think that Alla is my current favorite. She seems to have ideas and energy for every task. Randall, who I still hold in high esteem, seems to be very strong in areas where he is comfortable with, but kind of fades away when he is out of his comfort zone. Felisha is a bit of a dark horse. I don't think any of the others have a chance. I include Rebecca in this, who while being a hard worker, and not bad to have on your team, simply is not a good leader.

cudareef

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:20 pm

Which do you prefer? A little more showing of the task and less boardroom (like by not having the final boardroom like last night) or less showing of the task and more boardroom? I'm not sure. I just wish the shows were 75 or 90 minutes long instead because I would like to have a longer showing of the task and a lengthy boardroom.

Princess PJ

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:29 pm

In a way, isn't the positive side of satellite radio that you can have a large number of channels thus offering a variety of niches? In essence, something for everyone.[/quote]

I have more to say about this, andrewd, but it's off-topic, so I won't post it here. E-mail me if you want to continue the conversation.

Empress1

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:32 pm

This was kind of a bullshit task. I love music; sang for a long time, so unlike Jacob, I like hearing people sing on TV. But it’s totally subjective, and doesn’t have much to do with . . . anything. I agree with Carolyn that they should have had Jide speak.

I include Rebecca in this, who while being a hard worker, and not bad to have on your team, simply is not a good leader.[/quote]
She's really not. As others have pointed out, she’s 0-2 as PM. The point of the apprenticeship is to lead, and I don’t think she does that well. I think she works hard, but I don’t find that too impressive, frankly. As my mom says, you don’t get credit for doing the right thing. They’re there to work. She works. I don’t see a spark in her. I think she WILL be strong once she gets some more experience, but right now I find her ineffectual. I’m not sure why Trump is so far up her ass.

I still like Randal. The only way to get through a mistake (which was totally not fire-worthy), is to do what Kwame did: own it and hope for the best.

Clay was never going to win. He doesn’t read rooms well, and his “woe is me” schtick is beyond old.

Is it me, or did they say “from Nigeria” every five minutes? I get that it makes him stand out, but I got that the first time they said it.

MiamiGuy

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:35 pm

I'm thrown off this season by all the actor resemblances: Now that Clive Owen, Christie Brinkley and Reese Witherspoon are gone, we're left with Kim Cattrall, David Schwimmer and Sandra Bullock. And Randal, who resembles no one, is going to win.[/quote]

He sort of resembles '80s rapper Big Daddy Kane, who, coincidentally, had a track that could have been Randal's theme song: "I Get the Job Done." Though, in this task, not so much.

ETA: The original quote so people don't think I'm just always thinking about Big Daddy Kane.

heebiejeebie

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:40 pm

Clay is not "someone who might be difficult to work with." Clay is a selfish asshole of monumental proportions. I could find a spot to put Rebecca in my organization where she would be useful. There is no place I could put Clay. Well, maybe telemarketer, but other than that, nothing.[/quote]

Maybe it is a sad indictment of my professional career. But I can find even a selfish asshole of monumental proportions a viable force in the workplace than someone who to this date, I have seen really not do anything that shows me she is competent in a professional manner.

Her presentation skills were lauded. But the level we were shown? Was that of the first interview stage competence by my take. Rebecca being praised is like being told how healthy one is for simply breathing. Granted that same level of acclaim has been handed Randal in many ways to me and even Alla, who is the other "able" candidate left really has shown mere competence at a level that I would demand for all candidates if the parameters the show pretends to follow were ven close to being real.

Clay, even by Alla's own backhanded admission, did show some talent and skill. I think he is able to do certain tasks. Much like Alla, I could see hiring him to do a particular task if I absolutely had to, but would never hire either to work for me. Rebecca? I wouldn't hire for anything. She has shown little to no skills beyond what I expect any college grad to have (not to say they do, I'll grant).

CheekyCricket

Nov 18, 2005 @ 4:41 pm

If I was an XM executive, I'd be pretty pissed because all a person who hasn't heard of XM learned about the product is a) it's satellite radio (which is better why?), b) there's lots of stations (great but not a big selling point since I only have one set of ears and, once I've found a station I like, that really doesn't matter to me), c) they seem to take their listener's calls (which... isn't a good thing, in my book -- I can usually make up my mind about a song without the assistance of some Joe Sixpack) and d) they don't have a problem with playing songs that random reality show contestants managed to write and produce in a single day.

They didn't mention the superior audio quality, their talk radio content, the fact that it's commercial-free or really anything at all. [/quote]
One of the judges was the executive VP of programming for XM Radio, so there was a senior executive involved on the task (I believe he was the guy who pointed out the wrong number on the sign). And the episode is being promoted on the XM site, so I'm assuming that the XM execs got what they wanted, even if it's not what we'd expect they might want. More of a soft-sell approach, where they try to attract a percentage of a specific demographic by using some new singer/songwriters and promoting XM as a station that spotlights up-and-coming musicians, among other things. It was unclear how the teams found the artists, but I still suspect that XM selected a pool of aspiring artists for the teams to choose from, so that they could limit the artists to those who would suit XM's goals for the episode.

KerleyQ

Nov 18, 2005 @ 5:11 pm

It's been bugging me for several weeks, but after watching last night's ep and last night's Will & Grace ep, I finally realized who it is that Clay reminds me of. He's the young Beverly Leslie (Karen's short nemesis who recurs on W&G). It was especially obvious in one of Clay's confessionals last night. There's just something about the way they both speak, the facial expressions, etc.

Jeebus Shuttlesworth

Nov 18, 2005 @ 5:15 pm

She's from Sri Lanka, actually. And she's not very popular with adults, from what I understand -- her primary demographic seems to be college students and "hipsters." Her father was involved (to what degree is hotly debated on message boards) with the Tamil Tigers, a terrorist group/liberation organization (it depends on where you stand) that invented suicide bombing and is fighting for its own country.

M.I.A. is actually a good example, as I think that's where Rebecca's mind was. U of C is a very isolated school, despite being in Chicago -- it's in Hyde Park, which is not the nicest area of the city, so students there are insulated in their own little academic world. As a recent undergraduate, I'd bet that she was still applying that experience. Selling Jide and his heritage probably would have gone over gangbusters as a U of C concert, but as a radio listner, I don't care. I just want something I can listen to. That said, I liked Jide's song, but picking him just because of his story was a poor choice, I think.[/quote]
Thanks, I knew she was from a country that was part of the Indian subcontinent, but I couldn't recall the right one. And you echoed my point--M.I.A. would be someone that college students and hipsters would like both for her background and her fusing of different styles and influences, but not people who listen to XM Cafe.

They didn't mention the superior audio quality, their talk radio content, the fact that it's commercial-free or really anything at all. [/quote]
As someone who doesn't really know what satellite radio is all about, the show actually moved me closer to subscribing to Sirius. I mean, not really, since I listen to KEXP for my alternative music fix (you can stream it on iTunes). But Trump listening to the music on a tinny little cellphone thingy didn't exactly inspire my confidence in that product.

Fishfive

Nov 18, 2005 @ 5:41 pm

OMG, did anyone notice that Rebecca completely rocked this season's world when she complained that Clay kept "STEPPING UP and being annoying" or something similar? So our favorite phrase has been turned on its head! I'm still recovering...

Otherwise, this episode was just a bad reminder that the music industry is run by corporate types in suits who have no clue about what music is or how to write it. And basically it means that if you like a singer's "personal" lyrics they were probably fed to him/her by some Heather like Felisha saying "this is what your story is..." I'll never listen to Seal's music the same way again...

And what was that stupid thing George said about some sell-out comment he made to a music exec once? Sort of dumb thing to say when you only say two sentences every other week, dude.

Good riddance to Clay, walking Anti-Team Viral Superstrain.

Bubba Dharma

Nov 18, 2005 @ 5:48 pm

What bothers me about the whole thing, though, and what this episode made painfully clear, is how rigid and unforgiving radio "formatting" is ... .[/quote]

The specific business the task relates to is irrelevant; the point is to deliver what the customer wants. Jidé was not what the customer wanted.

Cockapoo2

Nov 18, 2005 @ 6:03 pm

Jesus H. Christ Rebecca, just because the artist is from Nigeria does not make him appealing to an intellectual, up-scale audience! She bugged this episode, like she's too cool for the room. UGG.
And Randall, get some balls, I know you're a sophisticated gentleman, but when someone goes for your throat, fight back! She could have been gone so easily and I hate to say it, but I think if she wasn't a Wharton grad and wasn't physically appealing to that pervert Trump, she woulda been outta there.

I found all the stupid head bobbing very amusing, cut to Carolyn and the XM joc, stoic as priests. Ha. Guess all were not feeling the beat.

Obleek

Nov 18, 2005 @ 6:08 pm

Heck, my email box has had more contact with Nigeria than he probably has.[/quote]

Bwah! And what the fuck did Nigeria have to do with it anyway? Or Miss Universe? Or helicopter rides? Or switching teams? Or history? I'm so confused...

Poor Randal lost some shine. Poor Felisha needs to exfoliate. Poor show needs some fucking fresh tasks next season. Please!

MFelkins

Nov 18, 2005 @ 6:14 pm

And, yes, an apprentice is supposed to be someone young who whishes to learn a trade.[/quote]

Word and Word. Which is why I get confused watching the show. If Trump wants an Apprentice, then Rebecca is the one. If he want's an accomplished business person, then it's Alla.

Also, I want to add that Legionnaire Pullo had no part in the decision.

highlander

Nov 18, 2005 @ 6:16 pm

She could have been gone so easily and I hate to say it, but I think if she wasn't a Wharton grad and wasn't physically appealing to that pervert Trump, she woulda been outta there. [/quote]

She's not a Wharton grad, she graduated from UOC

Dumbpants

Nov 18, 2005 @ 6:24 pm

And what the fuck did Nigeria have to do with it anyway?[/quote]

Especially since he moved from there when he was three years old. Jeesh, he probably grew up in an apartment in the Bronx. Hey, I lived in New Orleans from the ages of 2-4, can I call myself a Cajun?

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