TWoP Forums > 4-9: "One Hit Blunder" 2005.11.17

Full Version: 4-9: "One Hit Blunder" 2005.11.17

TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery

Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

fangums

Nov 18, 2005 @ 8:46 am

I looooooved George's comments about the radio business: Hard rock? It's terrible. What, we can sell lots of advertising with it? I love it![/quote]
It wasn't just the quote, but the way he said it and smiled. Just such a real display and so cute.

Newcreation

Nov 18, 2005 @ 8:51 am

I too hated this task.

Music in and of itself is such an indiviual choice as far as style and taste. It also is still very much a segregated art. Meaning that there is still a great divide in culturalism when it comes to music.

As such, a music task much like an art task is too subjective to use as a reasonable task.

I think the Randal mistake was a problem, but I've read things like showing chinks in his armor, etc.., C'mon mistakes are made and nobody ever said Randal was perfect.

On Randal's lack of creativity, he himself has acknowledged that. Creativity is not going to win him TA. If it comes down to he and Alla for F2, since historicaly, that final task comes down to the F2 leading a team of firee's and involves some major event planning, what is going to get Randal over is whether or not he can motivate his team to carry out their tasks to the fullest, not have any saboteur's on board.

bahamarita

Nov 18, 2005 @ 8:51 am

I can't even express how happy I am that the bitchy little queen has left the building. If I'd have been PM, I swear, I'd have duct taped his mouth, then duct taped him to a chair and shoved him in a closet. HATE!

Now, Trump really ticked me off during the boardroom. He said something about having to look at past tasks or actions or something in order to make a decision about firing someone. Really? Because if he uses that criteria, why was Marshawn fired? She did really well up until the SW task. I'm not a Marshawn fan, but I'm just curious.

Man, Randal was a-twitchin' during that boardroom. I was worried that he might have a stroke!

And, when Trump announced the stupid task, Felisha, for all the world, looked like she was going to jump out of her skin. She kept making a very odd face. I couldn't decide if she was going to make a break for it, burst out laughing or throw up. Weird!

blocked writer

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:04 am

Wordy McWord to that. Key word: if he wants to.[/quote]

At this point, I sincerely hope he doesn't want to. I remember reading that he's writing a book, and he's probably gotten as much benefit from this show at this point as he will if he won. I think many doors will open for him, and he won't have to spend a year in the servitude of Trump.

The more I think about Trump's reaction to the minor clerical error, the more pissed I am. I think the reason Randal looked so shocked when Trump said it was a firing offense is that he probably couldn't believe what he was hearing. I couldn't believe it. People have made much bigger mistakes over the years, and didn't get fired. The error was worth a bit of discssion, then once it was explained, Trump should have dropped it. For Trump to even mention it as a fireable offense has killed any little shreds of credibility he may have had left in my mind. I also hated his repeated insistence that Rebecca is a star. Did he say superstar? I don't remember. But either way, what is this based upon? It sounds like the same bullshit he kept spouting about Alex last season.

If I owned a big business, I'd snap someone like Randal up in a minute. Anyone can make a mistake, but few people can own up to it as readily and graciously as Randal did. I could also see from the way he beat himself up about it that he'll probably never make the same kind of error again. His integrity is also valuable beyond measure. It is so refreshing to see someone on this show, (and in real life, for that matter), who is willing to accept responsibility, and not try to place blame on others, because it happens so rarely.

What Brian and Marshawn did last week were fireable offenses, not making a small mistake on a poster that wasn't integral to the task. If the task had been to come up with a poster, and that's all they had to work on, then it would have been much more serious. But as George said, it wasn't why they lost. (I think George said that.)

The only two left that I think should really be in the final two are Alla and Randal, but if Trump doesn't want Randal, I hope Randal is counting his blessings. I wouldn't be surprised if after having seen Trump's shenanigans up close, Randal doesn't want to work for him. Run Randal, run like the wind!

ETA:

C'mon mistakes are made and nobody ever said Randal was perfect.[/quote]

I agree. Randal hasn't gone around saying he was perfect, that he was the greatest thing ever, or throwing his credentials in anyone's face. Unless they haven't shown it, and I doubt if it happened, otherwise I don't think he would have been as respected as he seems to be by the other players. Now if he had boasted that he could create the best poster ever, (the way Jennifer M. did about being a great salesperson, then didn't come through with the sales), then it would be different. But that error could have happened to anyone under the right circumstances.

enabled cookie

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:06 am

I liked Jide a lot better than Levi (poor man's Jack Johnson). I think he had a better voice, a nice vibe about him, and I think the theme of the song that they picked was lot more cogent. They lost completely because of the team's lack of input in the recording studio. If they had done more research on XM Cafe (for some reason they seemed to have the impression that the "storytelling" of the song mattered), they could have toned down the song. I have a lot of respect for Felicia for taking control in the recording studio for that reason. Maybe she isn't just Alla's apprentice after all. While I thought that expecting future businesspeople to be songwriters was a bit much, there were some interesting skills necessary in this task: management of musicians (usually considered free spirits who let things come naturally) in order to benefit a specific company, presentation skills, and producing a product to fit your subscribers.

I think Randal and Rebecca decided to go with Clay because they caught wind that the task would be creative and thought that Clay would help them since he was the PM during the DQ task, arguably the other most "creative" exercise that they've had. For a minute I thought that Trump wasn't going to fire anyone, when he started going over everyone's mistakes, particularly since he's been prone to mass firings of late. Good riddance to Clay though. I think that Rebecca can't be far behind, but he is such a self-rightous prick. Can't he understand that personableness is something worthwhile in the business world?

Don't you all just want to hug Adam? I think he's beyond cute. I love the way that Alla, Felicia, and Adam interact. I think Clay's prediction was totally wrong there. Poor Randal. While his mistake was careless, I really don't think that the wrong station number is a "fireable offense." Stupid Trump and having to "build suspense." I do agree that he is going to have to [insert business cliche here about doing better and taking leadership] if he wants to continue to hold Trump's respect.

stopeslite

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:17 am

Even the exeuctives said it was a minor error. [/quote]
But they didn't say that to Trump. They said it to each other, then when talking to Trump, made it sound yoouge."And they didn't even have the right station number!!!!" I was really glad that George jumped in to save Randal's ass on that one - I think Trump was gearing himself up to possibly fire him at that point (unless he's a better manipulator than I give him credit for) and George, rightfully appalled at this possibility, butted in and changed the subject.

But what choice did they have? They had to choose or accept someone, or have someone foisted on them.[/quote]

I went over this myself as well. I think they may have chosen him because he would make the easiest scapegoat if they lost. Also, they realized he was probably going to be given to them, and knew his personality, so didn't want to alienate him right off the bat (sorry!) by revealing their dislike.

Clay was right about one thing, Randall and Rebecca are not creative. [/quote]
So what does that matter for Trump's apprentice? Whoever it is will be pushing paper managing a building project somewhere, not finding radio station talent. I feel so, so sorry for Jacob having to recap this atrocity.

It makes me think they are feeling the same kind of frustration as people on the boards with these "creative" tasks that have absolutely nothing to do with the kind of business tasks that the eventual apprentice will be asked to take on.[/quote]
Exactly.

I think the only reason why Alla appears to get less resistance than Clay is because she's always surrounded by weak people. [/quote]
I don't think that's it. She controls people, but always in the context of the task itself. "You need to do this to do the task well", as opposed to "You need to do this because I'm in charge and I said so", the way Clay does. Remember his "No one talks until I give them permission!" speech? He's controlling because he's obviously on a power trip; regardless of Alla's motives, she phrases it very well as though what she's ordering is simply common sense and central to the task. Allatine, indeed.

Rebecca got the intellectual thing off the XM web site. And now I remember why I got Sirius instead.[/quote]
I was laughing my head off during one of the commercial breaks - there was a Chrysler ad for one of their high-end cars that prominently featured the fact that a year of Sirius came free with the car. Oops! Hope XM wasn't watching.

lessa2010

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:25 am

Thinking about this overnight, I think what would have been fairer in garnering information about the two songs was to play them back to back and have the callers tell them which one they liked better. Radio stations do this all the time, pitting two songs against each other and seeing which one listeners would like to hear more of.

The way they did it was just weird and half the call ins for CE sounded like they knew Levi. I know the execs opinion mattered the most, but the opinions of callers would have more weight if the callers were comparing the two directly like the execs were.

I hate these types of tasks.

ETA:

Oh, I hope all those interviewed for the honor of having an Apprentice wannabe write them a song to sing for thousands were given the opportunity for their real demo's to be aired as payment. It's the only way I would have risked my debut on radio being handed over to a bunch of suits.

Slade2

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:27 am

I think the Randal mistake was a problem, but I've read things like showing chinks in his armor, etc.., C'mon mistakes are made and nobody ever said Randal was perfect.[/quote]Agreed. The monumental disappointment in Randal is strange.

The error was worth a bit of discssion, then once it was explained, Trump should have dropped it. For Trump to even mention it as a fireable offense has killed any little shreds of credibility he may have had left in my mind...Anyone can make a mistake, but few people can own up to it as readily and graciously as Randal did. I could also see from the way he beat himself up about it that he'll probably never make the same kind of error again...If the task had been to come up with a poster, and that's all they had to work on, then it would have been much more serious. But as George said, it wasn't why they lost.[/quote]Great post blockedwriter. You make some excellent points. For a while I was sure Trump was going to fire Randal and I was baffled. The fact that he owned up to it and made it clear R and C had nothing to do with the poster said a lot about his character. Contestants on TA rarely step up to say something was entirely their fault. Maybe if he had added some of R and C's faults afterward, Trump would have been impressed. But Trump seems to change his ways every season, every boardroom. I never know what impresses him anymore. One day you're showing chutzpah and the next day you're being disloyal for doing the same thing. It seems so random.

DeepInTheHeart

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:29 am

I also hated his repeated insistence that Rebecca is a star. Did he say superstar? I don't remember. But either way, what is this based upon?[/quote]Probably her "stick-to-my-guns" position on Toral and, more important, being commended for being the best sales person in the sporting goods baseball massacre and for volunteering to present on short notice in "Store Wars."

I don't think Rebecca is as bad off as 0-2 might indicate. The techno-expo was a disaster and reflected badly on her weakness as a project manager, but this last task was a crap, subjective, matter-of-taste project. I'm less concerned about the "2" in her record than I am the "0."

I don't think Rebecca will prevail, but I still prefer her over Adam and Felisha. She's been more of a factor more often than them. As DT summarized, she's "interesting" -- could be either great or a disaster. Besides, I like looking at her on my TV screen, and in this context (primetime TV), her appearance counts for a lot.

As to Clay, his record was less stellar than the 2-0 might indicate. At a minimum, in "Store Wars," we got the spin that the win was a gift from Alla. No matter what his record might have been, he kept generating negative buzz about how difficult it was to work with him. Some individual ability no doubt, but crap as a leader or team player.

Alla continues to build a strong record. As we saw in this episode, she can defer as well as lead. She is my pick to win it, even over Randal. When it gets down to that final task, the "organize an event with a staff of 'employees'" (and just YOU try to manage any grouping of Melissa, Toral, Markus, and Clay), I have more confidence in Alla's ability to lead a group than in Randal's.

Randal has been shown as being a "star" but more in the context of individual performance. I think Alla's leadership has been consistently stronger -- Lamborghini, golf sales, "Store Wars," etc.

It's an open question whether Alla can overcome that favorable demographic that Randal has. Randal is hardly in need of any "affirmative action," but his status as an African-American would add such nice balance to that group picture of "Apprenti" - two white guys, white woman, black guy. It's the "Mod Squad" equation. My casual prediction for TA5: some strong hispanic, asian, or Native American women.

lrdmordain

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:33 am

Ok well this episode was ok, not great but not bad. I'm glad clay is gone, all he seemed to do with whine and complain. He had one great run as PM and then he began to fizzle out. I still cant believe Trump even thought about firing Randal, Its not like Trump has been the paragon of work, he's made some very big and very public mistakes. I do have a question though, given how many mass firings we have had this season and the fact that Trump mentioned it was only 2 weeks I believe to the final week / Final 2 showdown, how did this all time out perfectly? Did they change the week count after every mass firing and just hope no one would notice? Had they planned this all in advance, this week you'll fire 4 people, etc..? It just dosnt make sense to me how we could still be perfectly on schedual.

TriumphantComic

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:35 am

I also hated his repeated insistence that Rebecca is a star. Did he say superstar? I don't remember. But either way, what is this based upon? It sounds like the same bullshit he kept spouting about Alex last season.
[/quote]

I'm definitely with you on that. However, I understand what The Trumpster meant by Rebecca being a star and I'll explain. When he said that, he wasn't referring to her PM history. He was referring to her work ethic and team contributions. When you look at it that way, then she can be considered a "star". Rebecca has a strong work ethic and she is a great team player, but she's a lousy leader and she's very inexperienced when it comes to leading in a business setting. Now I would be curious to know if Rebecca would be acting the way she is if she had not broken her ankle in the first place because I suspect that her broken ankle has changed Rebecca's personality on the show. It's a strong possibility.

TraceyBee

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:45 am

I think this was an insult to songwriters and producers everywhere.[/quote]
Yes! That's exactly what I was thinking. It's completely arrogant to believe that a bunch of Trumpy-wannabees are capable of writing music. And, as has been noted, it has absolutely squat to do with Trump's businesses.

That was one of the lamest rewards ever. Riding around in a helicopter while Trump brags about the buildings he owns? Blech. Almost as bad as trotting out Miss Universe for no discernable reason except to give Trump someone to drool over and evaluate for the position of Next Mrs. Trump. (Someone upthread said it was because of the "talent" contest of Miss Universe and the "talent" part of the task. Miss Universe, unlike Miss World, doesn't have a talent competition.)

hissyfit

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:47 am

Gee, what a surprise. Clay wanted to write a song called 'What About Me?' Ass.

I thought that DT made such a big deal about Randal's mistake because he was making a clumsy attempt to build suspense. Rebecca messed up and Clay was negative throughout the whole task...again. The little smirk he gave Rebecca when he refused to go along with the way she wanted to give the presentation and opened the door for the artist ahead of time made me want to slap him. He's really a bitch.

Both songs were okay, but I really didn't think the losing team was that far off the mark.

Randal's kind heart was apparant again in the big hug he gave Clay when they left the boardroom. Of all the hamsters, Randal is the only one I could work for. You know he'd be a great boss.

Clay is working on a book enttitled "What to Do When the Whole Universe is Wrong and You are Right"

kmckay

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:49 am

Did anyone catch the first thing that Clay said to Randal and Rebecca after leaving the Boardroom? I heard him say something, almost under his breath, and then "You said some things you didn't have to say."

And:

How can you own the land under a building, but not own the building? And that begs the question, Who owns the land under the other buildings that he said he owns? [/quote]
A landowner can lease land to someone to build a structure on the property. My guess is that he bought the land subject to some long, long-term lease of the land by the owners of the building.

SueBarbri

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:52 am

And Randal, who resembles no one, is going to win.[/quote]

Randal looks like Kevin Garnett!

cycladic

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:56 am

Okay, now this is driving me bat shit crazy. Helen Reddy (ptuii) had a song virus with the chorus:

He-e-e-e-e-ey, what about me?
I've got some feelings on my mind, too

He-e-e-e-e-ey, what about me?
I'd like to have a song to sing, too[/quote]

Flootoona, this is a cover of an Ian & Sylvia song from the sixties called, yes, "Hey, What About Me?" (Ian & Sylvia were the models for Mitch & Mickey in "A Mighty Wind.")

Since I’m old enough to remember when this song came out and yes, I was a folkie back then, I probably fit the demographic for XM Café.

But I thought both songs sucked. And Jide’s just wasn’t mellow/acoustical enough. Rebecca and Randal should have been able to step back and look at/listen to the song in the light of the intended market and see/hear that they needed to tone it down.

And Rebecca’s presentation—even without the interruption by Clay—was ineffective. Too many words by her, not enough Jide. As Carolyn pointed out, to spotlight the artist, let the artist speak!

contretemps

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:55 am

I've liked Rebecca for weeks because she seems to have no fear in the boardroom but I still would not consider her a "superstar." Randal is also a favorite because he has seemed genuine and ethical. The huge surprise has been the emergence of Alla as the most competent candidate. Of course, it could just be the editing. We shall see.

On another note, did I hear correctly that there will be a double episode next Thursday? On Thanksgiving night..WTF? In other words, if you don't have a Tivo, screw you?

Dear Trump and Burnett, I hope you choke on your turkey.

highlander

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:59 am

I'm definitely with you on that. However, I understand what The Trumpster meant by Rebecca being a star and I'll explain. When he said that, he wasn't referring to her PM history. He was referring to her work ethic and team contributions. When you look at it that way, then she can be considered a "star". Rebecca has a strong work ethic and she is a great team player, but she's a lousy leader and she's very inexperienced when it comes to leading in a business setting. Now I would be curious to know if Rebecca would be acting the way she is if she had not broken her ankle in the first place because I suspect that her broken ankle has changed Rebecca's personality on the show. It's a strong possibility. [/quote]

Rebecca broke her ankle, not her brain. That still works. She is not a very good leader at all. Her inexperience shows. On this task, when she was going over what she wanted to say on her presentation and Clay started playing the "air" violin and being difficult she really spent too much time argung with Clay about it. Alla would have told him "cut it" and then she would have focused on her presentation. Rebecca did not utilize Clay well but seemed to get more frustrated over time. Alla would have stayed focused. When Rebecca was PM the first time, she told her group what she wanted without asking them to brainstorm and yet failed to oversee the task. The result-the mistake on the cake, the decor, etc. On the Techno task she didn't need to move around much (she had quite a bit of people ) she just needed to come up with ideas or let her team come up with ideas which she did not do. On this task, she was instrumental in picking the singer and which direction the song should go. That was done sitting down and had nothing to do with a broken ankle. It had to do with her taste and not caring about what the XM format was. Felisha understood this was marketing to your target. This task was still "what does your customer want" task. Rebecca blew it.

lessa2010

Nov 18, 2005 @ 9:59 am

On another note, did I hear correctly that there will be a double episode next Thursday? On Thanksgiving night..WTF? In other words, if you don't have a Tivo, screw you?[/quote]

That is what I heard too. Though I wonder if it will be a clip show for one half like last season.

Newcreation

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:05 am

Randal looks like Kevin Garnett! [/quote]

You know..., you're right he does look like "The Big Ticket".

Newmy

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:16 am

Uh oh. Randal did make a big mistake.[/quote]
What makes his mistake even worse is that the channel that was misprinted was XM 65. I have XM and listen to this particular station occassionally. It's "The Rhyme", which is older hip-hop, which is completely uncensored. I can imagine someone tuning in with the expectation of hearing innocuous adult contemporary and instead getting, for example, the very explicit and uncensored Gin and Juice.

So, yeah, it was a pretty big mistake, especially considering where he erroneously directed people to. But I'm oh so glad Lil' Bitch (reference from last night's O.C., but so fitting for Clay) is gone.

scarletsmith

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:16 am

Rebecca broke her ankle, not her brain. That still works.[/quote]

Yeah, but having done the very thing myself last summer (actually, I broke my leg right at the point where the tendons attach the leg to the foot, so while technically a broken "ankle", the bone I broke was the non-weight-bearing bone in my leg), I can tell you that I was not the same person for the 6 weeks I was in the cast and for several months afterwards while I rehabilitated. I was on fairly strong narcotics for the first two weeks and lighter ones the latter period. Considering the entire season is shot over a period of (I think) 3 weeks, I would be extraordinarily shocked if Rebecca wasn't in pretty significant pain and/or on painkillers at least part of the time. Plus, she's always having to crutch around everywhere, and that can get exhausting (though I'm quite surprised she wasn't put in a walking cast--I only crutched around for a few days, and then the ortho put me in a walking cast and encouraged me to crutch only when absolutely necessary in order to rebuild the bone faster); I know that for the first few days after I broke my leg, I'd be completely exhausted after crutching around for even a short time. So, yeah, I'm not entirely sure some of the brain-fogged decision making she's shown isn't due to her injury sapping a substantial amount of her energy.

BatFantastic

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:28 am

I'll admit I'm a yooge Rebecca fan. Yeah she's inexperienced, but has anybody read her bio on NBC? She's 23! And she's already got a death stare that controls the likes of Trump. Just wait until she's got five or ten years of experience!

And for me, that pause and look she gave Clay when he started in on the violin was one of the best moments of the show. He probably didn't even care what she was going to say in her presentation, he was clearly more interested at getting the cameras pointed at him.

A lot of people have mentioned how ridiculous it is to have a songwriting task in a job interview for a most likely real estate centered job. Besides the obvious issues of product placement I think the task itself had a lot of value. I don't think Trump expected anyone to write anything spectacular. He knew he was placing them in a very challenging environment far outside their comfort zones. He wanted to see how they'd handle the pressure of tackling something they've never done before. I think that's a valuable attribute to test in a potential employee.

BassetHound

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:29 am

What a crappy episode. What is this, Making the Band, AI, or some other horrible music show? Blech! Trump doesn't have a record label. Stupid, product-placement show with little substance. I'm glad Randall and Rebecca survived and Clay got the boot, though.

JTMacc99

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:36 am

I think the only reason why Alla appears to get less resistance than Clay is because she's always surrounded by weak people. [/quote]Heh. I'm 95% sure that Alla dealt with Clay better than anybody else because she has the most experience dealing with 4 year-olds.

VERY interesting episode with regards to figuring out our eventual winner. We got a real good look at Randal and Rebecca.

-- Randal clearly has all the experience, brains and leadership qualities to legitimately run a company. However, I really need to see more of an edge on him if he is going to win this particular competition. He needed to do more than make a face when Rebecca refused to tell Trump that she still thought Randal was great.

-- Rebecca, on the other hand, has a really good handle on how to win this competition. When Trump asks you if you think somebody else is great, you say NO. I also think she's pretty damn smart, speaks well, and she has the charisma and self confidence to be a good leader. But this task showed me that she hasn't been around long enough to effectively use her natural talent. For example, she did a good job with stopping dead in her tracks and confronting Clay when he started with the violin crap, but she never actually solved that problem. It just stayed out there as an uncomfortable moment, and this (in my mind) is why Clay went ahead and opened the door

MCalamari

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:37 am

I'm a bit annoyed that the standard rules of the game rather got thrown out this episode. As much as I like Rebecca, she has two losses while Clay has two wins. More than ever, this season's firings seem very much based on ratings and shock value than the weeding out interview process from before.

adso

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:38 am

This episode is the perfect illustration of what's gone wrong with this show: too many "good TV" candidates who are crazy and/or delusional (Clay, Markus, Toral), combined with tasks that are more about pimping (XM, Star Wars, Zathura, Best Buy) and less about business skills. It seems like Burnett and Co. are going to ride this one into the ground.

katarzyna

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:42 am

Personally, I think Rebecca, Randal and Clay did an excellent job. Waking up this morning, I remembered there was a Nigerian singer named Jide, who had an interesting sound I really liked. And I remembered XM Cafe was channel 45, which I listened to on the way to work this morning. (I thought Randal's mistake made the correct channel number even more memorable.) All I remember from Felisha and company was some generic singer with some generic song.

Of course, I'm not the target market for XM 45--listening to it this morning made that pretty clear. Kudos to Felisha for hitting the marketing target.

I would be extraordinarily shocked if Rebecca wasn't in pretty significant pain and/or on painkillers at least part of the time. Plus, she's always having to crutch around everywhere, and that can get exhausting [/quote]
ITA. Being on the Apprentice is exhausting for a healthy person--Rebecca's broken ankle takes just that much more out of her.

Also, I forgive her mistake about targeting "intelligent, sophisticated" listeners in this task. I think XM 45 is probably markets the station that way, because folks in the target audience like to be told that they listen to intelligent, sophisticated music. But really, not so much. The music seems to be more about self-absorbed whining than anything else.

Irma in Green

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:42 am

Writing a song with an unheard of "artist" is an integral part of the Donald Trump empire? Poor Kelly must still be in his basement cubicle, hammering out the lyrics to "I Never Deserved This".

Clay's continual looks of utter surprise have become the defining moment of every show for me! I imagine that the affectation has been well honed throughout his life: "I woke up alone again, and my wallet is missing? But last night he remarked on my creativity."

I really liked the CE guy. He had a kind of Harry Connick thing going on, without the suck-my-talented-balls air.[/quote]
LadyKanobi, I also liked Levi (remember the XM Cafe introductions and the exec says: "I'm Lee, without the Vy"), but then I really like Harry Connick too, and think that maybe the rest of your quote has merit!

I agree, this episode should have brought back the hilariously awesome "Rubble Man."[/quote]
No, we never have to listen to "Rubble Man" again, although it would have been "spit milk through your nose" funny to see the original "band" members in an audition for a spot on XM Cafe.

I looooooved George's comments about the radio business: Hard rock? It's terrible. What, we can sell lots of advertising with it? I love it![/quote]
George, this is why you totally rule, and make all the "Not Georges" pale in comparison. Since he brought up making money.....will Capitol Edge's team members be able to collect any kind of royalties should Levi's song make it big (as big as one gets on XM 45)? I know the pre-show contracts are yooouge, but I wonder if something like this was covered, or if it all just goes to Trump and Burnett.

tres francaise

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:46 am

Add me to those who've recently dealt with a broken ankle (& fractured kneecap on the OTHER leg), & my brain still worked just fine, as did I. Actually, I think I got better & more focused by having to really prioritize. Maybe Rebecca's getting some Trump love/sympathy because of her injury, but she shouldn't. And I really don't get the disdain on the boards for Felisha. As mentioned upthread, if she were the pretty brunette, she'd be a favorite.

The chink in Randal's armor that stood out to me last night is his lack of passion. Does he really want to be TA? Assuming he's F2, how will he manage a group of wild card team members in a really pressure-filled situation?

Stay tuned!

Trader Joe

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:45 am

On Thanksgiving night..WTF? In other words, if you don't have a Tivo, screw you? [/quote]

Actually, a VCR will do............(hee)

I think Jide could have won if they let him be himself instead of writing that stupid song for him. The song he did for his interview was great! They ruined him!

I wonder where Randall got that number from anyway, do they have two stations? There must be some kind of explanation that he didnt want to offer....

Rebecca is actually perfect for Trump, all she has to do is stand around and wear white jeans and hang out in his office and smile at his clients/vendors etc. He doesnt want anybody who'se actually going to do anything.

LadyBast

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:48 am

I think the only reason why Alla appears to get less resistance than Clay is because she's always surrounded by weak people.[/quote]

Alla and Clay have been surrounded by the exact same people for a while now (Adam and Felisha) and those people have clearly gravitated towards Alla over Clay. And while it can be argued that Felisha follows Alla because they were part of the same original team, the same can't be said for Adam (who, under that theory, should be following Clay).

nubbs

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:49 am

Trump seems to be drifting further and further away from the concepts of a) meaningful, relevant tasks and b) worthwhile, satisfactory rewards.

This was a ridiculous task, and the reward was running neck and neck with three or four other rewards this season as being totally boring. Doesn't Trump ever get tired of using every opportunity to pump his image up some more?

Rebecca is, unfortunately, a classic example of the type of person that does well in MBA school and business. Some substance, not alot, compensated for by the appearance of introspection and ability.

Anyway, Trumps tasks are solely driven now by sponsors, rather than tasks being 'relevancy' driven, and I think this was the worst task yet in that regard.

blocked writer

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:51 am

For a while I was sure Trump was going to fire Randal and I was baffled. The fact that he owned up to it and made it clear R and C had nothing to do with the poster said a lot about his character. Contestants on TA rarely step up to say something was entirely their fault. Maybe if he had added some of R and C's faults afterward, Trump would have been impressed. But Trump seems to change his ways every season, every boardroom. I never know what impresses him anymore. One day you're showing chutzpah and the next day you're being disloyal for doing the same thing. It seems so random. [/quote]

I totally agree with you on this, Slade2. I think you made an important point that Trump would have been impressed if Randal had said something negative about Rebecca and Clay. Trump treats the boardroom like his personal Coliseum, and he likes for the gladiators to really go at it. But I don't think that's Randal's style, and I appreciate it. I believe that Randal is competing in the game with the idea that his work should stand for itself, and he's only going to say something negative about someone else if he's asked. That may not mean much in Trump's world, but I think it would be valued more in the outside world.

DeepInTheHeart

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:51 am

I don't think Randal was really in trouble, but George certainly helped his case --He broke in with a "But that's not why you lost" or something along those lines and then chided the entire group on not matching the appropriate station genre or format.

Jobiska

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:55 am

When Felisha (or maybe it was Alla) confessionalized early in the hour "Clay is Clay, Clay will always be Clay..." I thought to myself...Clay is only Clay until it's....FIRED! And lo and behold, at the end of the episode, into the down elevator went Mr. Ceramic. (And just as brittle too).

Holy crap, did you see Randal's forehead start twitching when Trump said putting the wrong channel might be a firing offense. Wow! That was a little uncomfortable to watch.[/quote]

That freaked me out. It was like his forehead was made of something other than skin and muscle for a second.

SoTired

Nov 18, 2005 @ 10:58 am

I'd love to see how well Donald, Carolyn and George would do on a task like this.[/quote]

I don't think they would get the channel number wrong, at least.

Some artist used to have a hit with a song called "What About Me"[/quote]

'Moving Pictures' and the lyrics 'Well theres a little boy standing at the counter of the corner shop...." have been bouncing around my noggin since the airing of the show.

I appreciated the seating arrangements in the Trumpcopter: Adam and Felicia furthest from Trump, Alla triumphantly squeezed in next to the Donald, who sat right in front of the window on the "big views" side, probably blocking a lot of the views he was describing.[/quote]

And then he told the coptor pilot to fly so he got the best views! What a jerk. I think he wanted Alla to lean into him.

Rebecca: "I like listening to music, so I think I could get into producing it". I wonder how many actual music producers (many of whom won't even get to sniff an opportunity like this) were smacking their foreheads hearing that.[/quote]

Heh. Kinda like saying. "I like using electricity. I think I could get into nuclear engineering."

I've lost track of how many weeks have gone by, but shouldn't Rebecca's cast have come off by now? soonish?[/quote]

I think the tasks are not really a week long. More on the order of 3 days.

And the hell? Trump owned the land UNDER the Empire State Building? What did he have down there, a wine cellar? Crematorium?[/quote]

A Scrooge McDuck sized pool of coins for swimming?

Trump ought to be honest and just name his next building "Trump's giant penis"?[/quote]

Umm.... Giant substitute for a tiny penis, would be truly honest.

hapfish

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:07 am

They could have skipped the whole task and just had DT come to the Boardroom and tell Clay:

Nobody likes you, everybody hates you, why don't you go and eat worms!!

That's pretty much what it boiled down to, isn't it?

bahamarita

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:13 am

A Scrooge McDuck sized pool of coins for swimming?[/quote]

HEE!

I'm guessing in the mythical, urban-legend Beneath the Empire State Building Trump Underworld that there is a big pile of hundreds where Trump goes to roll around naked to the theme song from The Apprentice. Also kept there are all the other dorky portraits of him in his polo gear or whatever.

And, lest we not forget, a guarded safe where he keeps the secret to THE HAIR.

LadyKenobi

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:14 am

Heh. Back in the 80's, Dave Barry wrote that we're all going to wake up one morning to find that Mars has been classily renamed "Trump."

I was all about Adam during the reward. I almost started crying when he was talking about how his dad came over with nothing, and now here he is in the yoogest helicopter looking at the yoogest buildings with the yoogest douchebag in the world. It was obviously genuine and heartfelt.

What struck me was that this was the type of speech one might expect to hear from Allatine, who isn't even one generation removed from immigration. She's the one who came over here and built a business (financed by lap dances, but still.) She may have said something along these lines that wasn't shown... but I doubt it. The woman is just ice-cold. I don't know if she's just like that or her years of stripping made her that way, but there is not one iota of her that's not been hardened. She's exploitative and she will throw Felisha and Adam to the cobra the instant it suits her.

bahamarita

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:27 am

I almost started crying when he started talking about how his dad came over with nothing, and now here he is in the yoogest helicopter looking at the yoogest buildings with the yoogest douchebag in the world. It was obviously genuine and heartfelt.[/quote]

OMG, I am dying here over the "yoogest douchebag"! Hysterical! And so TRUE! And Trump was a douchebag for taking the window seat. He OWNS this stuff, seeis it everytime he flies in his stupid helicopter. What a dick.

Many moons ago, I took a helicopter tour of Manhattan and it was incredible. And the best part? No yooge douchebag giving the tour! <snerk>

telly

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:34 am

If XM Radio was hoping to gain a larger audience through this episode, I think they are the biggest losers here because both songs were so very dull and nowhere near the alt. rock or indie rock they are supposedly about. I think both artists had talent, but were constrained by the boring lyrics and mediocre music.

They obviously edited it to make Excel's song seem horrible, but the Capital Edge song was just as meh.

Despite all that, Clay needed to go because his constant princess/ woe-is-me act is not professional and had this been a woman acting this way, I seriously doubt she would have lasted this long. (but then again Omarosa).

I know that he will be back for the final team and if Alla is one of the finalists, then Clay will surely be placed with her.

I hope for an Alla- Randal final, only because it will be the least boring option available. Rebecca, Adam and Felisha will be fired in the next few weeks only because they lack the leadership material that Trump seems to want.
Randal is likely to win this only because he seems to be able to work with anyone, and yet take charge when he needs to. He also doesn't have a sketchy past.

lovinbob

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:33 am

During the presentation one of the XM guys turned to the other and brought out the mistake with the channel, the other guy basically brushed it off as "small detail", meaning I guess, "Hey it can be fixed easily and quickly..." [/quote] That whispering exec was a Clay-ish dick who was acting like he was a contestant on TA. "They got the channel number wrong!" [/exaggerated whisper]. The other (gray-haired) guy was totally trying to shut him up, like "let's hear the song -- the important part of this presentation -- ass."

So why was Randall's mistake more of a firable offense than doing an entire presentation about a movie float while mispronouncing the movie's title?[/quote] Though I'm normally a stickler for stuff like presentation materials, I didn't think Randal's mistake was fire-able. They didn't produce thousands of copies of the poster (a la Tana of TA:3's final), they just produced a mock-up. Marketing materials were a creative, intelligent use of team resources. Shouldn't have made the mistake, and it does knock Randal down a peg, but it was a fixable one.

I had a "Friends" moment when Rachel, Ross, and Phoebe, no, I mean Alla, Adam, and Felisha were composing the song and singing and the guitar playing.[/quote] I thought it was more Saved By the Bell. Very uncomfortable. In general, I find it uncomfortable to watch people on TV who are listening to and really "grooving" to music. And Felisha would have fit right in with Kelly Kapowski and the gang. Adam is borderline Screech -- does that make Alla Jessie "I'm so excited" Spano?

musicguynj25

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:43 am

I agree with everyone who said that this task was incredibly misguided. There needs to be something a little bit more accountable, especially this late in the game, when deciding who the winner of the task is. Suggestions like an XM coffee house, or putting on a concert featuring unsigned artists that you can only hear on XM in order to get XM subscriptions up, would've been great. A clear corporate tie-in (which honestly doesn't bother me), but also a task that is measurable. It would require creativity and business savvy, which I think is what the apprentice should ultimately have.

I think we're being set up for an Alla/Randal final 2, and that would be fine by me. Rebecca is fading fast on my radar, and I think she's going to fall in the "you're not experienced enough" category when it comes to the final 4 interview process (in which case, don't cast 23 year olds unless they're Doogie Howser, MD). It's like when the 25 year old or plus-sized woman gets cut from "America's Next Top Model". Alla has consistently shown that she can be a creative force, can manage problem players well, and is a great speaker, which is even more impressive since English isn't her first language. Randal just exudes class and a calmness about him, has the ethical stand-up kinda guy thing going for him, and is obviously one of the most intelligent people there. Felisha & Adam are just entirely too soft, although kudos to Felisha for pulling the XM win out by recognizing that the key to winning this task was staying within the niche of Channel 45, and making the best possible song to fit the niche.

OT: Levi's a friend of mine, and an INCREDIBLY talented singer/songwriter. He's the real deal, folks. I saw him perform and was immediately hooked. The funny thing is that his style of music is nowhere near the style that XM 45 would play. He's this Southern Rock, Blue-Eyed Soul, Jerry Lee Lewis piano playing guy. If any of this sounds appealing to you, check his website out - levikreis.com. I tell you this as a fan of his music, not as his friend.

TheWildBoo

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:49 am

I wonder where Randall got that number from anyway, do they have two stations? There must be some kind of explanation that he didnt want to offer....
[/quote]

XM has dozens of stations of all genres of music, talk radio, sports, etc. It's not a station on FM radio called "XM." XM is a whole broadcasting system, via satellite, that's totally independant of traditional radio. That being said, I think Randal just made a typo and didn't proof-read.

hissyfit

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:51 am

I hope both singers get something good out of this. They seemed like decent guys, they have good voices. Not my kind of music but they have talent.

DT's rewards suck. I wonder what the future ones will be.

The winners get to go with him to watch him get his hair cut
They get to paint his apartment
They each get to sit at his desk for three minutes

GeorgeOMalley

Nov 18, 2005 @ 11:59 am

Yeah, but having done the very thing myself last summer (actually, I broke my leg right at the point where the tendons attach the leg to the foot, so while technically a broken "ankle", the bone I broke was the non-weight-bearing bone in my leg), I can tell you that I was not the same person for the 6 weeks I was in the cast and for several months afterwards while I rehabilitated. I was on fairly strong narcotics for the first two weeks and lighter ones the latter period. Considering the entire season is shot over a period of (I think) 3 weeks, I would be extraordinarily shocked if Rebecca wasn't in pretty significant pain and/or on painkillers at least part of the time. [/quote]

If that's the case, and I don't think it is, she shouldn't be there. Not fair to her or to her team. However, I don't think her foot is hindering her mental ability/contributions. I honestly don't think she has a clue about what to do on each task so she just sits there and keeps her mouth shut. She's got no where near the experience that the others have and I think she knows it which is why she shuts up most of the time.

She's way too green for this sort of role. And, yes, an apprentice is supposed to be someone young who whishes ot learn a trade. But if that's what an apprentice is in the context of this show then why do they keep casting overly educated corporate drones and/or entrepreneurs?

TA1 worked because everyone was young and only moderately experienced. It made sense that they'd want this job. It was a bit of a struggle for them to pull these tasks together because none of them were top level professionals in any of these areas.

Insomniac

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:01 pm

But I don't get why in the hell any business people would be expected to write songs as part of a job interview.

I think this was an insult to songwriters and producers everywhere. [/quote]

Absolutely! I thought the same thing. Songwriters everywhere must have been seething. I have to imagine they must have been given the melody, otherwise they took on a lot in one day. The music wasn't that different from what I hear all the time, which isn't good, but it's on the air. How did they manage that?

Since when are Van Morrison and Sting, etc. considered Alternative Rock? It's not even an alternative for adults. It's the music we grew up with. It's called FM Lite.

(Last night's show only confirmed how much more I like Martha's apprentice. Tasks that relate to her biz. Less drama because the "contestants" aren't characters. OK, admittedly there's less drama, but at least I don't have to watch the likes of Clay.)

Donald, I live in NYC. Looking at your buildings is not a reward. At. All.

cristobal

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:05 pm

Hey guys? I really need someone to explain to me how anything on this episode related to what Trump would actually have an apprentice doing for him. Is he thinking of starting his own record label? You know, so the slightly over-the-hill Ms. Universii and "models" from his agency (which I've never heard of, btw) can have somewhere to move on to other than an exciting future in B-grade Skinemax flicks? Because if not, I just don't get it. This task was just plain stoopid and cringeworthy on every possible level.

Although it was really nice to have Clay fired. He's such a little punk (I do not mean in the Oz sense, though you never know). Whiney, bitchy, passive-aggressive - ugh. Everything I hate in real life people. I don't know that he necessarily killed the task (I kind of doubt it), but even so, he was the least valuable member of the team. I swear, the looks on Rebecca and Randall's face when they realized he was gonna join the team - priceless.

Helicopter ride: hysterical: "And I own this, and I own this, and I own this, and I own this..." I was waiting for him to say he was turning the Statue of Liberty into a yoogely successful and expensive condominium. Even though he doesn't own it. Yet.

I continue to believe that the whole thing's coming down to Alla and Randall in the F2. And that Randall will handily win. Which I have now jinxed by even thinking it.

Neko

Nov 18, 2005 @ 12:08 pm

I wonder where Randall got that number from anyway, do they have two stations? There must be some kind of explanation that he didnt want to offer....[/quote]
XM has dozens of stations of all genres of music, talk radio, sports, etc. It's not a station on FM radio called "XM." XM is a whole broadcasting system, via satellite, that's totally independant of traditional radio. That being said, I think Randal just made a typo and didn't proof-read. [/quote]
Didn't he put Channel 65 on the poster? That's [The Rhyme -- Hip Hop from Day One, as they describe it. I'm thinking Randal was listening to some Snoop Dogg.

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.