TWoP Forums > 4-8: "Store Wars" 2005.11.10

Full Version: 4-8: "Store Wars" 2005.11.10

TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery

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Brachiator

Nov 15, 2005 @ 2:04 pm

What I saw happen with Marshawn was simply the deterioration of another reality show. Simply put, in the first season, everyone plays flat out hard. With each successive season, people start employing "strategy" which they believe they have gleaned from past episodes/players/situations. So here we have Marshawn trying to hedge, instead of trying to knock one out of the park because she's trying to "win the game". If you want to watch someone who's trying their best to showcase their talents, then keep watching Alla, because she's the one who gets it done regardless of which nitwit (Clay, are you reading this?) is PM or who drops the ball. That's what Trump wants and really responds to. Marshawn just outsmarted herself, as have many others trying to strategically find an angle.[/quote]
Absolutely, jblues. There have always been two parallel games happening on The Apprentice, the game where you try to get ahead of the other players, and the game where you try to prove to The Donald and his designated representatives that you can work for him. And Marshawn inexplicably, horribly, utterly blew this second aspect of the game.

It was disheartening to watch her misread the importance of giving the presentation (later magnified by the misplaced and defensive egotism of her dismissal of the task as just being about a display). And it was just sad watching her try to BS the Viceroys and The Donald. I kept thinking, "Why would anyone want to hire you if you blatantly attempt to lie to them? Don't you see how Trump always talks about George and Carolyn being his eyes and ears and how he depends upon them to give him a clear and accurate assesment of tasks?"

nenyadr

Nov 15, 2005 @ 4:55 pm

Word Black Knight. Plus, if you are just trying to draw people to see and by a DVD, you have to highlight the characters. That way, die-hard fans, fans, and just browsing people will know where to quickly locate and pick up a copy.

Unlike the die-hard crowd, browsers and fans might overlook secondary or tertiary characters. I know or recognize the majority of the Star Wars characters (by face, not by name, hee), but with all the sci-fi stuff out there, sometimes I get them mixed up. So I might go right by their display, if other characters were the focus. But if I saw a Vader or an Obi-wan or Yoda, etc, I'd at least go check out the display.

MFelkins

Nov 15, 2005 @ 7:40 pm

Final other note - Rebecca gave a presentation - she did not storm Mt. Suribachi to plant the flag! Seriously, it was good that she stepped in (not up!) but really, she'd done sweet f all up to that point, so why make out like she's Audie Murphy for actually doing something instead of being her usual cute but boat anchor-like self?[/quote]

To defend Rebecca. We don't know what she did or did not do. We only know what they choose to show us. So, she could be doing great things or nothing at all. But, when we do see her, she is doing things. She always seems to come through on what ever task she is given. My only question about her is why she hasn't been the PM for so long.

The cynic in me thinks the producers are saving her for a big finish.

My 3.5 cents. (Inflation and increases in fuel prices.)

CheekyCricket

Nov 15, 2005 @ 9:14 pm

The thing that gets me about the firings in this episode is not that he did two, but that he didn't do it when called-for before. Last week is a good example. As much as I wanted Markus off my set, he was not the reason they lost that task. Trump firing him was fine, but there were others who caused a direct line to that loss that could have gone. [/quote]
The trouble is that if Trump applies one standard when deciding who to fire--choosing the candidate who most contributed to the loss--he would never be able to fire a Markus, because Markus wouldn't do enough to directly cause a loss. Therefore, I believe using that one standard for firing would be too limiting, especially after the second half of the competition.

If a candidate does something that would cause him to distrust her, as Marshawn did when she pulled out of the presentation with short notice, and then offered a series of excuses and explanations in the boardroom, none of which touched on her real motivation, that's a major screwup, a huge tactical error, and Trump's probably not going to hire her. It's too bad that she made such a major mistake; as he said himself, he thought she was very promising. I was sorry to see it, but though she has some stellar qualities, she's been flying under the radar since her win as PM, with the exception of the Learning Annex task, and so she just hasn't done enough to reinforce her position. Being "promising" just doesn't cut it at this stage of the competition. As Bill remarked in the boardroom, the window of opportunity is quickly closing. Mistakes and misjudgements that might have been overlooked earlier in the competition will now lead to a firing. Every candidate has got to put in their strongest performance, and Marshawn blew it, both on the task and in the boardroom. She simply blew it.

highlander

Nov 16, 2005 @ 8:36 am

You hit the nail on the head, CheekyCricket. Even if Marshawn told the truth in the boardroom, that she was afraid she was being set up, Trump, Bill and Carolyn would have told her that fear should not dictate one's pulling out of a presentation. Trump would have said she still has potential but would have fired her for not willing to stand out and shine. She tried to strategize and she got beat by her own misguided judgement. Also, I noticed in this season that the CYA or FUDR strategies are the reasons some candidates are being fired-more so, this season than any others. Mark and James hadn't even been PMs when they were fired. For Josh, it was his first time. I think Trump had no problem firing them (Mark and James) because of not only the task they were on at the time but he saw they had not PMed at all up to that point. Marshawn, Rebecca and Brian (exempt) stepped up (sorry) and became PM's early in the game. Jenn M. proved herself useless. I see Trump and the viceroys not wanting to repeat some mistakes in the past like letting Jenn M. of Season 2 continue to the finals when she played a very strong FUDR. S3 Kendra was actually told by Trump, Carolyn and George before she was crowned the winner, that they did not like her FUDR strategy.

ConanGrammarian

Nov 16, 2005 @ 11:51 am

I was really shocked by Marshawn's actions. I guess I misjudged her.

atlantis81: ...and Alla will carry Felisha into the final four, too.[/quote]

Sadly, I think you’re right. Felisha has done nothing but hang onto Alla’s coattails. Give her credit, though. It’s been enough to get her this far.

Alla is most likely bound for the final four / two. She’s smart and hardworking. But…she’s also manipulative and scheming. I don’t like scheming people and hope it trips her up somewhere, but I think she’s savvy enough (or her team is dumb enough) that it won’t.

Capital Edge is Alla’s team. It’s like the old joke about the two hikers who come across an angry bear. The first hiker drops his backpack and gets out his sneakers. The second hiker tells him he’s crazy because he can’t outrun a bear. Whereupon the first hiker tells the second that “I don’t have to outrun the bear, I only has to outrun you.” No one on Capital Edge seems to understand that Alla is getting out her sneakers.

It looks as if Randall missed the central importance of Darth Vader, and that's not entirely surprising. He doesn't seem to have the training or instincts of a marketing expert. He does well as a diplomatic leader and as a teacher and motivational speaker, but he lacks the breadth of business experience to be the best overall player in this game.[/quote]

Smarts and a winning personality have been Randal’s strengths. Breadth of experience does appear to be his weakness. I don’t think it will be a fatal one. He’s won twice, he’s been picked by both teams, and he’s never been chosen to return to the boardroom. The only place I can see his lack of experience being a potential problem is in the interview segment. And if he handles that in a mature and professional manner (unlike Kevin who never explained his “professional student” status), he’ll be okay.

CheekyCricket

Nov 16, 2005 @ 12:20 pm

It’s like the old joke about the two hikers who come across an angry bear. The first hiker drops his backpack and gets out his sneakers. The second hiker tells him he’s crazy because he can’t outrun a bear. Whereupon the first hiker tells the second that “I don’t have to outrun the bear, I only has to outrun you.” No one on Capital Edge seems to understand that Alla is getting out her sneakers.[/quote]
I would call that strategic thinking, based on an understanding that you are, after all, in a competition where you have to beat everyone else, including your teammates. That's the cold fact of this competition. And I think that Randal is doing something similar, though in a more low-key way. At the start of this episode, he was at the top of Excel's pecking-order, and although the team lost, and Excel is now Randal and Rebecca, he's still at the top. Rebecca may have helped her position by taking over the presentation, but that was not enough to overtake Randal. If she had thought more strategically--or rather, if she had looked at her overall ranking in the competition and thought about what she needed to advance--and had volunteered to lead, then she might have been better off. But, as things stand, Randal is still ahead of her, and getting out his sneakers too, I think.

highlander

Nov 16, 2005 @ 12:29 pm

I so agree and I suspect that Randal will only need his slippers! I want to add at this point of the competition, I really like Alla too.

LiverpoolFan

Nov 17, 2005 @ 10:25 am

I think this much-ballyhooed quote is being taken out of context. I read it more as "I'm not hiring a stripper" than "I'm not hiring a stripper." Ivana stripped in a desperate effort to sell just one more candy bar, which is not at all the same thing as being a professional stripper.

That said, I can't see Alla winning. I think she's exceptionally good at marketing, and she showed it to great advantage in this task, but her personality is a little too edgy for TrumpWorld. [/quote]

I would agree with your perception of Alla's fitness if Trump was not interested in making a splash in the Las Vegas market.

Alla would be a perfect candidate to help him market a Las Vegas property. She is clever and experienced enough to know the real movers and shakers (as opposed to the posers) in the Las Vegas area. She knows enough about the sordid side of Las Vegas to be realistic and pragmatic in making marketing decisions that will work. And she is clearly hungry enough to throw herself into the work.

Do you honestly think that you would want a Bill Rancic, Carolyn Kepner or anyone else you have met in the Trump organization running a Las Vegas property?

I am not big into conspiracies, but look at last seasons Apprentice and the rewards on offer. Kendra was a natural fit for the Palm Springs project. Tana (and Craig and anyone remotely close to the final selection) would have been disasters in any of those projects. Despite the fact that Randal is such a strong candidate - does anyone see him being a natural fit in the Trump Organization? I see him being a lot like the bedraggled looking Kelly looked a few weeks ago. He would be very competent. But he would soon wonder whether there was anything that he could invest himself in at Trump Corp. Alla, on the other hand, would seize the brass ring and not let go until the brass was coming off in her hand.

Heck - Alla would be a hilarious viceroy or even host of her own Apprentice-style show. She would be a great asset to Trump in a lot of ways. Randal just does not fit the Trump style. He is too good for Trump. Rebecca is too young. Adam is too blah. Clay is too unblah. Felisha is a total empty.

If Trump was serious about selecting someone that would fit the needs of his organization - it would be Alla. If he is interested in selecting the most qualified and excellent person - it would be Randal. If he wanted someone with (perhaps) the highest potential, but who would be a real long-term project, I might consider Rebecca.

nubbs

Nov 17, 2005 @ 2:06 pm

Back in my grandmother's day, the town would have called you "Nub" or "Digger" and made sure you had a place to sleep when the first freeze came.[/quote]

Hey! That strikes a little too close to home.

auntiemame

Nov 17, 2005 @ 3:22 pm

That said, I can't see Alla winning. I think she's exceptionally good at marketing, and she showed it to great advantage in this task, but her personality is a little too edgy for TrumpWorld.[/quote]

If Trump hired Alla, she would find a way to maneuver his bedraggled ass into the gutter and run the Trumpanies as they should be run. I am totally in favor of the new Alla world order.

dreamist

Nov 18, 2005 @ 3:03 pm

I'm not sorry to see Brian go because I'm a bit of a free spirit but would have left for a 10:15 meeting at least an hour early. What an idiot, and I think egocentric as well, it's like the attitude, they'll wait for me. Yuck.[/quote]

I'm late to this party, since I missed this episode, but:

I am famous for arriving at the gate of an 8:00 flight at exactly 8:00 to board. ha! made it!

So, even tho I cut timing close I allow for: elevator time, getting 4 or 5 people out of the suite, cab hailing time/or parking time, hitting-every-red-light time, elevator time. In my small downtown, that means leaving 20 earlier than the appointment time for just a 2 or 3 mile drive.

And if it's a high-powered meeting where you have much at stake, you add at least 10 more.

I understand killer fatigue, but this went beyond. I think Brian had a deathwish desire to be eliminated from TA, in which case the decision made sense.

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