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Full Version: 4-7: "Back to School" 2005.11.03
TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery
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CheekyCricket

helps me see her in a different light. I think it's because as soon as she joined the coven, my mind said "done" and moved on. I can't really think of any "Alla rocks!" moments- I didn't think she was impressive with the car photoshoot, she bitched too much when Rebecca was PM and totally cackled with the rest of the crows when they "set up" Toral (deserving, though it might have been). I just don't get the love.[/quote]
I know what you mean. I've been scratching my head over Rebecca, trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, and to understand why so many people think she's so great, because apart from her decision to become PM after her injury, followed up by her intense, but totally wrongheaded and ultimately stupid defense of Toral in the boardroom, she's done little that established her as an outstanding candidate. An intelligent, competent worker, yes, but where is the outstanding quality? I keep trying to see it. I'm coming close to loving Randal although I wish he hadn't chosen such a danged boring predictable topic. Very Kelly-like of him. At the same time, in terms of the competition itself, I don't blame him, because he knew he could deliver a strong performance with that topic in that venue. He's not just a nice, well-educated and well-spoken person, he's also smart. Alla, I am also impressed with, but I don't love her, yet I appreciate her smarts, too. Both of them seem to be looking at the long-term.

Alla and Randal are my favorites this time around, and I think it's because both Randal and Alla seem to understand that they are in a competition where skills, willpower and endurance matter, but wits and strategy also matter. In other words, they know they're in a power game, and they make their decisions accordingly. Randal totally undercut Brian, Marshawn and Rebecca by taking charge once they chose him, and established himself as their leader, whom they seemed to become dependent on. Right now, I don't see how any of those three could possibly compete with him. Smart, smart move. And, he's still the nice guy. Even smarter. Alla has some of the same quality, though she doesn't have his polish.
Sunidesus
Whew! Finally made my way through all 31 pages!

While their end result was horrid, I was really impressed with the way Adam handled Markus. Previous PM's seemed to just ignore him or yell at him, I loved that Adam pulled him aside and told him exactly what the problem was and what he expected.

And speaking of Markus. I honest to goodness think the man has ADD and would benifit from medication. His inability to track a conversation with multiple people, getting distracted easily, starting five sentences at once and finishing none of them... it all smacks of ADD (non-hyperactive version) to me.

I'm wondering if there's other ANTM freaks lurking, when I saw Marshawn in that black dress and she did a little walk towards the camera... the first thing that popped into my head was "She better be fierce!"
deaja

I forgot about that. And then he said something like, "It's been nothing but railroad tracks since Day 1" or something nonsensical like that, and Trump was like, huh?

[/quote]

I think he said, or meant to say, he'd been railroaded since Day 1. Of course, I could have just thought that because that would make more sense than railroad tracks. I was too busy gasping.
Summa

It puzzles me why neither group didn't just teach stuff they actually know.[/quote]

That's because they don't actually know anything that can be taught in a Learning Annex class. Sad.
Zycron

I think his whole attitude toward Clay and Adam was just more of "Wow! I'm such a stud! This virgin and gay stuff is so ALIEN to me!"[/quote]
Donald did look positively shocked that he had an honest-to-goodness authentic gay man and virgin in his presence. It was like he had met a unicorn. Though, his utter disbelief and continuing line of questioning and then dispensing sex advice were probably the most cringeworthy, albeit entertaining, aspects of this entire epsiode.


Although I still think that, given the margin of Excel's win, they should've chosen a slightly more interesting topic. Something between Making Your Mark and Sex at Work.

Making Sex at Work Your Mark?[/quote]

Making Sex with Mark at Work? [/quote][/quote]
Making Mark Work at Sex?

Adam should never have agreed to lead a seminar on a topic that he knew nothing about, had no personal experience with, and was obviously extremely uncomfortable discussing. He's a friggen virgin fer chissakes! Would anyone seriously want schooling from this guy about SEX?

They really should have broken the presentation up into sections. Adam: Struggles of a 22 yr old Virgin in Manhattan; Alla: My Life as a Stripper; Markus: How to Talk Your Way Out of a Relationship; Clay: Tight Asses and Other Work Distractions; etc.
holdfast
Making a Mark on Your Blue Dress due to Sex at Work?

OK, so I go for the cheap and easy shot.
AlmondEyes
Making Sex Work With Mark?
MightyThor
Making a Mark at Work With Sex?
lietome
First post! So if I manage to mess up the formatting, my apologies in advance.

Just my two cents re the whole Clay/Adam debate:

I think this is simply a classic example of a person failing to realize that while it might be okay for a person who belongs to a particular group (race, gender, orientation, whatever) to make a joke about the stereotypes of said group, it is not okay for an outsider to do the same.

Adam made comments about being Jewish in a self-deprecating manner and that was okay because he is Jewish. And I do think that Clay was merely picking up the joke that was already out there, however, because he isn't Jewish it carries a different edge - and leaves room for offense.

Two gay friends of mine once had a hilarious exchange during a tutorial. Friend One accidentally spilled his drink on Friend Two's notes. And Friend Two screamed, "You two-bit whore! You ruined my weekend, you seduced poor so-and-so's friend and now you spill faggy pink lemonade all over my notebook!" And it has been remembered by all present as brilliantly funny. However, if a very straight jock had said the exact same thing it would be remembered for very different reasons.

Adam can make the comment because he is within the group. It's safe because everyone knows he is kidding. However, Clay doesn't belong, the safety net is gone and there is this uncomfortable undertone of wondering whether or not he really means it.

I do think it is a lesson Clay needs to learn - but someone needs to explain it to him in these terms. Because right now I get the feeling he is merely bristling at the accusation of being a racist - and since he has the defence of knowing that he isn't, it doesn't look like he is getting what exactly went wrong.
oldbabe

Trump is always so bizarre in the boardroom anyway--he reminds me of a big turtle as he swivels that head on his shoulders and peers out at the world.[/quote]

Hee! As discussed in the Rome forum when Atia gave Servilla a golden turtle encrusted with gems, which was presented by a slave whose family jewels would make a porn star blush, turtles were symbolic of a penis. No wonder DT reminds you of a turtle, aka dickhead!
ConanGrammarian


Next Week: Adam loses his virginity to Chewbaca.[/quote]

Please tell me that's not a new nickname for the combover.[/quote]

Oh no. Add this to the Adam = Ross Geller post and I'm having nightmare flashbacks to the Princess Leia episode.
beezer
So thanks to whomever pinpointed why I cannot abide Adam - he's so Ross Gellar-esque. Gack.

Clearly, based on how Trump looks, sex ages you. Once he gets laid, Adam will look at least 25. After three wives, he'll be in need of a dye job and have bad orange skin too. [/quote]
So wait, Trump is 11?

I think it's kind of odd that Alla didn't have a stronger idea of what they were going to discuss and how. I dunno if she was hanging back to hang the PM, or Marcus, but she did seem to be proactive in the beginning and then she just... let that happen. Even if they were all going to speak, I believe she could have organized topics and such if she wanted to or thought of it. I know it's only an hour, but I would have liked to have seen what went on there that it was so incoherent.
meowing
I just watched the CNBC replay and it was as great as it was last night.

This show still has some life in it!

Oh - the street in NYC is ESSEX street, not Sex Street. Interesting camera work there, obscuring the first 2 letters in the street sign.
kyriebelle


Although I still think that, given the margin of Excel's win, they should've chosen a slightly more interesting topic. Something between Making Your Mark and Sex at Work.[/quote]
Making Sex at Work Your Mark?[/quote]

How about "Sex with Mark(us) is Work"?
Prpl Hart

Why is it, that when one team did great and the other bombed, that the scores were almost identical? What would they have done if all the comments were clearly great/sucked but the scores barely went the other way?[/quote]

Editing. Remember, they are selective about what they show us. They may have shown us the very worst of the losing team and the very best of the winning team (including the comment cards), and both may have only been mediocre.
rcpubdef98
Randal seems to be using the same formula that Kendra used in the Spring, only more effectively. He stands out as a project manager and makes strong contributions when he's following. The big difference is that he's respected and admired by the others (remember Craig?).

By Clay's forceful door opening, I definitely think this boardroom will carry over into the next episode. If it's not dealt with immediately, it has potential to fester into something explosive. That's a reason to watch, right?
Gullofthewatch

I've been scratching my head over Rebecca, trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, and to understand why so many people think she's so great (...)  she's done little that established her as an outstanding candidate. An intelligent, competent worker, yes, but where is the outstanding quality? I[/quote]

Intelligence and competence are, quite often, outstanding qualities among reality show contestants. That, and... How to say it - Likeability? Is that a word? Which is what makes Rebecca stands out so much to the crowd.

Plus, she's kind of hot.
Philyra

Randal seems to be using the same formula that Kendra used in the Spring, only more effectively. He stands out as a project manager and makes strong contributions when he's following.[/quote]

I completely agree, and he's certainly the most promising Apprenti I've seen since the good ol' days of S1. I just hope this competence and popularity bodes better for him than it did for Amy - remember how both teams constantly chose her during shakeups and Trump was all "This is a yooge mistake, giving her all this power"? [Gulp.]
MightyThor

How about "Sex with Mark(us) is Work"?[/quote]

You win!!!!!!!!!
lostcawz
Great ep all the way around.

Won't go into Clay/Adam territory except to say that Clay was rude and awkward, not bigoted. And Adam left the door open by playfully referring to stereotypes during his speech.

I understand about editing, but there is no reason for the scores to be so close based on the presentation alone. Ah well, the scores in the earlier Expo task were kind of overly close as well, imo. Whatcha gonna do?

I'd give Markus some (very little) credit towards the 'I was edited to be an ass' front if he weren't shown to immediately get confrontational when anyone talked to him about staying on task, doing what was asked, or getting to the point. When asked to write down 5 simple ideas, he can't be bothered. Hell, he can't even fucking write down one because he has no real idea to write down. He just blathers on and on in circles about nothing. Then gets angry when Adam attempts to get him to just follow basic instructions.

But I loved the crazy bastard and was kind of wanting Clay to go so we could have another week of Markus the Grating.

Also, I think Trump was asking Adam about his sex life to point out that if Adam can't answer a most basic question about sex he has no reason to try to give a presentation about sex. It was uncomfortable, squicky, creepy, and the best thing on TA in ages.
Lead Magnet
This thread is growing fast... I wanted to add to this but it's waaaaaaaaaay up-thread by now:

Squirrel_Monkey
I'll give you and Alla that. She was trying her best in the Boardroom to help Adam broaden and objectify Clay's missteps, which implies Alla would rather have seen Clay fired than Markus. She had so many problems with Clay during the previous task. Plus, Markus has proved that he can be easily marginalized -- he can even marginalize himself! Clay can't be marginalized. He has to be involved, front-and-center, in-your-face, creating drama.
[/quote]
IIRC Alla said almost exactly that to Adam when they were in the suite just before the boardroom--that Markus is nuts, but ultimately controllable, while Clay just was going to continue to be a problem for them.

And to tie this to next week, Alla = Palpatine. I think she's great fun to watch managing and manipulating the others.
scrounge
I think all this criticism of Markus as an endless talker is unfair. He's come a long way. I mean, it's not like people are committing suicide around him to get away from his blather, like they used to when he was in the movie Airplane.

(yes, that was TIC)
Brent724

How about "Sex with Mark(us) is Work"?[/quote]

I love it!!!
Lambchop

And if anyone else had done the same thing with regards to Clay being gay, that would also not be okay, even though he was the one who brought it up. Adam was trying to be self-depricating in the interest of endearing himself to the audience, IMO. He wasn't opening the door for a Jew-joke free for all.
[/quote]

Word! If Adam had hauled off and said, "Well, this gay guy does this, and this gay guy does that..." I don't think Clay would've appreciated it.

But, as assy as I thought Clay's lame attempt at humor was, I don't really think he was responsible for losing the task.

I think Adam needed to be a stronger leader with his team. I agree with other posters upthread who said that if Adam was so uncomfortable -- for whatever reasons -- with the "sex at work" topic -- he shouldn't have let his team roll over him.

He should've taken a strong stand and said, "NO! I'm not comfortable with this topic -- we're going to do something else!"

Frankly, their presentation looked like it really sucked. It was awkward, unfocused and pointless.

In that respect, I could see that Adam deserved to be fired. But I'm still happy about "SHUT UP" Markus getting axed because he was such useless dead weight on sooo many tasks. Even worse -- he was blathering dead weight!!

It was long overdue for him to SHUT UP and go!!!!
lawri
I think Trump should be fired. (O.K. only kidding.) But you DO NOT ask an employee, or a potential employee, about his sex life. VERBOTEN, Baby. You don't need a law degree -- or millions of dollars -- to know that. And shame on Carolyn and George for snickering rather than taking the old Trumpster aside to give him a what's what. (I know, I know, it's t.v., not real life. But seriously!!!)

Of course, Adam deserved the sex-life question, because Trump needed to change the subject when Adam kept gratuitously banging on that anti-semitic drum. Then he says ... "I don't think Clay is an anti-semite." Well DUH. Clay is simply an asshole. A gay asshole, but oops, no one is allowed to say that on t.v. (not that there's anything wrong with being gay or anything....) Adam is weak. And lest we forget: he's the one who described himself as a "nice jewish boy from Atlanta" or something like that. I didn't hear Clay say "ass" after "tight" -- it was Clay who kept saying "tight ass" over and over again. Like it wasn't bad enough that Clay said "tight" as instead of "uptight," as in "cheap" as opposed to "sheepish." Adam may be weak, but gay or straight, Clay really needs to go.

And Alla needs to win. She's smart, she's saavy and she's got a tolerable personality. I'm a girl, so I always root for the girls to win -- otherwise, I'd go wtih Randall. Other than them, and maybe Marshaw, is it me, or is this year's "crop" especially lame??? Kinda makes you think that ultra-lame, uber dorks on Martha Stewart's show are just what's out there, oh well ...

Finally, I must concur with the majority of posters on this site when I say that I'm glad Markus is gone. I think they lost because of Clay, but Markus was annoying as shit. Next week, Trumpster, please, please, please fire Clay. What kills me is that I actually wait for this stuff, week after week. It's riveting stuff, considering. (But after the Trumpster's comments about sex, I don't know. I also have to agree with everyone out there who went "EEEUUUWWWWW!!!")
Chukkal
I have to wonder what would happen if Martha Stewart was to ask her apprentices (in the board room) how often they have sex, and with whom? I guess that's one way to get the Donald fired.
heebiejeebie


I think his whole attitude toward Clay and Adam was just more of "Wow! I'm such a stud! This virgin and gay stuff is so ALIEN to me!"[/quote]

Donald did look positively shocked that he had an honest-to-goodness authentic gay man and virgin in his presence. It was like he had met a unicorn.[/quote]

Maybe it was the wine I had with dinner but this is hysterical. And so spot on. The reason it is hysterical is because I'm picturing Clay as The Daily Show's Rob Corddry because then he could have tossed glitter in Trump's face when Trump so incredulously asked if he was gay.
CapeCodder
Nice to finally have a task that didn't involve marketing a product for a big chain. This one reminded me more of the season one tasks, which were varied and involved the candidates doing more than passing out flyers.

Felishia and Brian remain invisible. Do they contribute anything?

Alla seems like a snake in the grass. They're too scared to gang up on her though so she'll go far. No one is playing strategy that I can see. Instead of taking out their real competition they gun for Markus who's no threat at all. They kiss Randall's ass which just emphasizes how good he really is. They give everyone exemptions even when there was dissent on the team.
Ashforth
My opinion is that Clay snapped at Adam and slammed open the door to the suite because he wants to win the game and was furious that he was blamed for the loss and dragged through the mud as an anti-Semite for a rather extended period of time before being exonerated by the accuser who was trying to get him fired.

I thought that Markus proved Carolyn's point that he sits back and waits for the team to fail so he can point fingers when he said, (paraphrased) "I came up with a brilliant concept that would have won if they had only used it," in reply to being asked what his contribution to the task was. He conveniently left out that after his concept was rejected, he apparently did nothing other than lead the fidget brigade during the class and complain that he would be blamed for the loss. What a surprise it must have been to him when Clay was blamed! It's unbelievable that withthe shitstorm flying around Clay, Markus couldn't lay low enough to avoid getting fired. But in the context of the alleged point of the show, I don't think the criteria for firing need be limited to primary responsibility for a particular loss. It was clear that Marcus was completely unsuitable to win, so he must go.

Among all the hilarious moments on this episode, one of the funniest to me was when after Trump fired Markus, Adam and Clay stayed frozen for a moment, clearly terrified that another boardroom massacre was at hand. "RUN!" I yelled at them, channelling the vile Donald, "Get out before I fire you, too. Bwaaahahahahahaha!"

Now I have the strangest urge to have sex and eat a steak. But my hair looks really bitchin'.
LadyKenobi

Alla = Palpatine[/quote]

Hee! I bet next week Felisha and Adam will have little comlinks with her holo-image ordering them to excute Order 66.

There was much eye-rolling in my living room when I saw Felisha and Allatine (as I shall now call her) all leany-leany on each other during the wait at the beginning of the episode. I know that some people are more physical than others, but it just seemed... weird and little-girly. Were they going to make English muffin pizzas and watch N'Sync concert videos later on?

Also, from a manners POV, I liked that Adam referred to Carolyn as "Ms. Kepcher" in the Boardroom. It's always kind of bothered me that the candidates refer to Carolyn and Geroge by their first names simply because The Sex-Having Hair does. However, it may have been a bad move strategically since it tended to underline his youth and intexperience.
AlmondEyes

Felishia and Brian remain invisible. Do they contribute anything?[/quote]
I imagine that they probably show some semblance of competence - hence, no drama-laden editing opportunities.

When Alla asked the crowd at the seminar, 'what do you do when you see sex happening around you in the office?' I was all 'um, leave the room?'

Man, that BR and Markus' cabterview are funnier the second time around than they were last nite. But it doesn't make Trump's regaling Adam with his version of The Joy of Sex easier to take.

Had Trump not pulled the stunt of firing damn near the entire team last week, the Sex At Work-ers would have been prime candidates for another mass firing IMO. It was just incredibly unclear what aspect of Sex At Work they were discussing. That no one on the team pointed this out as a negative warranted that all of them should have been fired. Including Alla. **ducking**

In addition to being completely incomprehensible, Markus has a talent for having the dumbest, doofiest looks on his face. I could never work with him. I admit to getting seriously impatient (sometimes to a fault) when people don't get to the fucking point of whatever they're talking about. I'm surprised no one has killed him by now.

I imagine Clay is now on a quest to CRUSH KILL DESTROY (tm Jacob) Adam. It must be hard work to be so delusional. I really don't think Clay believes he did anything wrong. Like, it's perfectly ok in Clay's world to call Adam a tight Jewish boy.

eta:

Allatine [/quote]
You guys just constantly bring the awesome. That's some funny shit.
Txtwister
Maybe that's where Markus could put his mouth to good use. At least with a mouthful he wouldn't be able to speak! /rimshot - thank you, I'll be here all week.
Susan StoHelit
To me, Clay failed to learn a basic lesson. You don't identify a person as a type by what group they fall into. Whether it's a cheap Jew, a cheap Gay guy, or a cheap black man - it's just too open to misinterpretation, and unnecessary. If he had said, "Remember, this is our shy, tight, nice guy" or "shy, cheap, guy", it'd work just as well. And he was pretty crude in the rest of the presentation - not because he was talking about homosexual flirting and harassment, but just because of the terms he was using.

But Markus - he's just incoherent, incapable of stating an idea. To me, that's a sign that he doesn't really understand the ideas he claims to have, since he can't articulate them. Using lots of words and complex, conveluted grammar is not a sign of intelligence - it's usually a sign of the opposite. And he's lazy - only has one idea, won't help sweeping up or with work in general until asked (then he looks for the excuse) - it's just bad.

Adam - I also think he shouldn't have made himself much a part of the presentation unless he was more comfortable with the topic. Although, had they done something with an angle to understanding sexual harassment, he could be a very good example of how to deal with someone with a more shy or proper attitude about sex. But otherwise he might have been better to be off to the side, manage the presentation rather than be in it.
JeffersonAero
So much awesomeness in one episode and a 33-page thread. It's almost impossible to know where to start.

As far as Clay's comment, I think part of the reason he said it was due to the informal nature of the "class." Obviously Capital Edge hadn't spent much time in preparation or planning, other than telling each other what a great idea "Sex! At Work! With Co-Workers!" was (the class or the act, you pick). Like one of the comments said, there didn't seem to be a real agenda and I think everyone was casting around for something to talk about - except Markus, who cleverly brought a yo-yo (the heck?). I don't believe Clay is anti-Semitic either, he was just looking for a way to connect with the audience. But he should have sincerely apologized to Adam once he realized how his words may have sounded. You can't afford to insult people at work - unless you're Donald Trump, obviously. Also, was this a typical class for the Learning Annex? I wasn't clear on exactly what kind of education was offered there but Excel's theme seemed much better suited.

The BR was cringe-inducing in so many ways - I hope someone got a special on brain bleach this week because we all need it after DT decides to share the miracle of sex with Adam (no! not like that! gah-ross!!), is astonished that there's a gay man in his BR, and asks George how he feels about anti-Semitic comments. Henceforth in my living room DT shall be known as Uncle Insensitive. I honestly wanted Markus to hang around for another week because he's such an IDIOT! I need the laughs, Thursday's a long day for me. I think it was the approach and presentation of the task compounded by Clay's many unprofessional comments that caused the (not-so-great) loss, so I would have fired Clay and kept Markus as my court jester. But whatever.

Randal rocked the Richter scale! He is obviously a confident and energizing speaker who knew how to get his crowd awake and going. It was a good choice of topic, especially for a business group. Ten bucks says asking potential employees about sexual orientation was not one of the recommended methods for making your mark. I would have liked to see Brian and Rebecca speaking, especially after Brian's Markus attack with the Zenthura presentation. The reward was excellent, though, SO much better than fishing (and watching Markus maim himself - actually, that does sound fun). Marshawn was gorgeous in the little black dress, I hope she took that one home! Brian and Rebecca looked good (it's Michael Kors, you can't wear his clothes and NOT look good) but Randal....oh, my! Just...yes.

Comments time:


Does Adam remind anyone else of Ross Geller?[/quote]
Actually, when we saw him doing his tie (over and over), I thought he looked exactly like Will Truman. I think it was the angle of the camera and the haircut...


I have to love Adam now. I think he's cute as a button. His discomfort with talking about sex kind of endeared him to me. I totally forgive him for singing on "Rubble Man." ("LAY-DEEZ! If you see us in the club, fuh-reekin . . . !)[/quote]
Noooooooo!! I finally got it out of my head last Monday and now it's BACK! I'm going to have to find it on iTunes.


I would take a possibly-virginal Adam over Markus any day, even if Markus had memorized Joy of Sex and had brought the Chippendale dancers as backups.[/quote]
BWAH! There'd also be some kind of deal with a yo-yo and some bizarre champagne ritual that would last about three hours.


How about "Sex with Mark(us) is Work"?[/quote]
BRAIN BLEACH! Ick ick ick ick icky!!!!


Clay dressed in a pink & yellow flowered shirt, pulling out of his closet the exact same shirt like "hmm, maybe I should have wear this one instead?"[/quote]
<whispering>Is it wrong of me to want that shirt very much?
Late Viewer

There was much eye-rolling in my living room when I saw Felisha and Allatine (as I shall now call her) all leany-leany on each other during the wait at the beginning of the episode.[/quote] Yes. You really want to be snuggling with the competition during the job interview process. But this supports my theory on why she tossed Marshawn and kept Felisha. Alla and Felisha are Best Friends Forevah.
nizzope

"It's been a RAILROAD from the beginning!"[/quote] I was ON THE FLOOR!

Randal is the clear front runner- and if he gets a nose job he'd be quite a looker

and that vote was sooo close I think mark burnette may have stuck a few down his pants while counting.......
My Way
I liked how George kind of took up for CLay (possibly unintentionally) in the boardroom by telling Adam that Sex is a provocative topic and it's not shocking that some of the comments would be on the raunchy side. With the exception of the Jewish boy comment, every thing that Clay said was related to the sex at work topic, just phrased a little coursely. He talked about crushes on coworkers and sexual harassment. All relevant topics.

You know how when you hear a friend use a phrase or word alot and then before you know it you're saying it too? I think that was what happened to Clay. He heard Adam say "Jewish boy" 19 times and it just popped out of his mouth before he knew what he was saying. I don't know why I want to defend Clay, I see that some of the things he said were course and I don't think he'll win, but he works hard in every task and I appreciate that.

Also, I"m still kind of irritated with Alla's "bitchy woman times a thousand" comment. I don't like using calling a man a woman as an insult. Especially when it comes from a stripper, Alla. I just can't like her.
marketdoctor
I caved in and saw the repeat on CNBC (and it gives the show a whole darker twist watching the terrorism news scroll at the bottom.)

I think the "tight" comment was intended to refer to the fact that Adam seemed uncomfortable with the topic of sex, whereas Clay had a more "loosen up" attitude. Also, as to the closeness of the scores: I know lots of teachers who get higher marks when the topic is interesting and/or easy vs. those that have to teach an unpopular or difficult topic. Counterpoint: why were the scores so close, when all the comments for one team were so negative and the other team's comments were all positive?
AdrienneP

I'm wondering if there's other ANTM freaks lurking, when I saw Marshawn in that black dress and she did a little walk towards the camera... the first thing that popped into my head was "She better be fierce!"[/quote]
I heard Miss Jay in my head, too!! Girl, you betta WORK it!

Forgot who it was upthread who said that Randall, by being PM, undercut Rebecca and Marshawn and Brian, excellent point. It was extra smart of him to want it and get that second win. And, after unanimously picking him to join their team again, to let him then become PM signals that they want to be led rather than be the leaders (YMMV), which gives him even more weight with Trumpy. Not smart on their part.
Scherzo

Now I have the strangest urge to have sex and eat a steak. But my hair looks really bitchin'. [/quote]

Ashforth, I will most likely never get all that coffee off my keyboard!
blocked writer

It was just incredibly unclear what aspect of Sex At Work they were discussing. That no one on the team pointed this out as a negative warranted that all of them should have been fired. [/quote]

I agree with this. They were so awkward and bumbling, it was like they had been pulled into the class 15 minutes before and they had to teach.

Not only did they lack a particular focus, they shouldn't have brought their personal experiences into the presentataion at all. It became a "too much information" situation in the case of both Clay and Adam. No one needed to know about whose ass Clay liked to look at, or the fact that Adam was conservative about sex. They could have offered scenarios without making it about them. That was one of their biggest mistakes, one that they obviously never overcame.
UncleJemima

Maybe that's where Markus could put his mouth to good use. At least with a mouthful he wouldn't be able to speak! /rimshot - thank you, I'll be here all week.[/quote]

"Markus," "mouth," and "rim" all in the same post. Oh, the humanity!

Adam's willingness to pull Markus out of the room was probably his strongest management move, but I hated that he didn't call Markus on his "let me finish" interrupting bullshit. Dude, you can't expect anyone to let you finish your thought, as ill-conceived and -expressed as it was, when you won't afford others the same courtesy.
Evala

But to bring it up. Over. And over. And over again. And then be offended that someone else says something about it? (...albeit admittedly at an inopportune moment.) Smacks of hypocrisy.[/quote]

In that case, I have to assume Clay would have had been ok with the rest of the group making comments and jokes about gay people. But somehow I doubt that would be the case.

And I don't think it's hypocritical to make fun of yourself or your group but be offended when someone outside the group does so. It's just like how black people can use the n-word but white people can't. And how gay people can call each other the f-word but straight people can't, something I'm sure Clay understands.
Irma in Green

and that vote was sooo close I think mark burnette may have stuck a few down his pants while counting....... [/quote]


BWAHHH! It is official, I'm 12!
tuneman570
Best. Boardroom. Ever.

Trump's "Sparticus" speech: "Some people like steak, some like spaghetti...", his apparent surprise that Clay is gay, as if Clay had never spoken or moved in his presence, Alla's pulling the puppet strings to turn Adam against Clay, Trump asking Adam if he'd ever have sex, then making it clear that he hasn't (!).

And lets not forget Adam's oversensitive mishearing of Clay's comment (it was Adam who mentioned his own Jewishness over and over and over again.), and Trump telling Adam sex has gotten him into lots of trouble, cost him a lot of money, and he's sure Adam will be IN THE SAME POSITION in ten years.

And lets not forget Clay's surprise when Alla/Adam launched their attack, the way he fumed during the whole homosexuality converstation, and stormed back into the suite. OR how Trump completely outed George the moment the possibility of antiSemitism was raised. OR how Markus just wouldn't just the freak up, long after he was fired!

Classic Shite. Just Classic.
PinkyTuscadero

To me, Clay failed to learn a basic lesson. You don't identify a person as a type by what group they fall into. Whether it's a cheap Jew, a cheap Gay guy, or a cheap black man - it's just too open to misinterpretation, and unnecessary. If he had said, "Remember, this is our shy, tight, nice guy" or "shy, cheap, guy", it'd work just as well. And he was pretty crude in the rest of the presentation - not because he was talking about homosexual flirting and harassment, but just because of the terms he was using.[/quote]

Adam was the one who was identifying himself with a certain group. There was no need to bring up his religeon at all in that discussion. What point was he trying to make by repeatedly reminding every one that he was a "Jewish boy from Atlanta?"
I don't know of any connection between being Jewish and being shy or sexually modest. (Admittedly, I'm Catholic so there very well may be a connection that I am unaware.) If he was trying to convey his modesty about sex/sexual ethics and was going to do so by assocuating himself with a certain group, why not say, "I'm just a shy young Republican from Atlanta?" Hes was quite vocal about being a Republican in his audition tape.

I can't help but wonder if Adam kept referring to himself as the "shy Jewish boy" because he thought- being that they were in Manhattan and therefore there was a good possibility that a good portion of the audience might be Jewish - it would help him win points with the audience.



In that case, I have to assume Clay would have had been ok with the rest of the group making comments and jokes about gay people. But somehow I doubt that would be the case.

And I don't think it's hypocritical to make fun of yourself or your group but be offended when someone outside the group does so. It's just like how black people can use the n-word but white people can't. And how gay people can call each other the f-word but straight people can't, something I'm sure Clay understands.[/quote]

Clay has not openly discussed his homosexuality with the other candidates (that we've seen.) I think the only time it has come up was in one of his private confessionals. I don't recall him ever discussing it with the others. It's funny...just before this episode of TA, there was a scene in Will & Grace that pissed me off. Karen was sniping at Jack to keep his "faggy voice down." But, last year when the creators of Will & Grace were on The Actor's Studio, one of them said how much they hated the word "faggot." Fag, faggot, faggy...they're all variations of the same word. So, they hate the use of it...but will use it for comic relief purposes? To me, that's totally hypocritcal.
kerfoker
I think aside from Markus' obvious negative qualities, there were a number of things this week which pointed to him as this week's firing. Adam and Clay were other options. But I believe the ambiguity of the conflict between the two regarding the alleged anti-Semitism made it difficult for Trump to take a position either side by firing Adam or Clay. He fires Adam and Trump possibly angers Jewish people who heard anti-semitism. He fires Clay and he brands Clay as anti-Semitic. Trump didn't want to adjudicate that conflict. The sexual discussions in the boardroom also in a way helped the two remain. Trump fires Adam after asking at one point if Adam's a virgin? Trump fires Clay after having a discussion about Clay's homosexuality? No, I don't think so. So take away those two and we have mushmouth Markus left for Trump to follow through on the weekly theme of being decisive.
hapless

They really should have broken the presentation up into sections. Adam: Struggles of a 22 yr old Virgin in Manhattan; Alla: My Life as a Stripper; Markus: How to Talk Your Way Out of a Relationship; Clay: Tight Asses and Other Work Distractions; etc. [/quote]

Word. That is so hilarious, they probably would have scored 10's from audience.

I don't get Markus. Apprenti are interviewed before being selected, for whatever factors the producers are looking for and supposedly The Donald personally selected them. So why was Markus selected if he has communication issues and never gets to the point? Was he selected because he wouldn't ever have a chance to be The Apprentice, even if by some fluke all the other Apprenti candidates quit the show.

DT: "Markus, you're the only one left. You're fired!"
Markus: "I knew I was being railroaded!"
Do they pick ninnys on purpose so the favorite will win?

Imaginery interview
Producer gameterviewer: Markus, do you want to be an Apprenti on the show?
Markus: Do I want to be an Apprenti? It's just that...you know...my idea of being a boardroom viceroy with Mr. Trump in the boardroom...you know...a better idea...you know...
Producer gameterviewer: Do you want to be an Apprenti? Get to the point!
Markus: It's just that my idea is better...you know... uh...I'm just clueless.
Producer gameterviewer: Great! You are on the show.
nilknarf
maybe Markus was the one of 18 that DT didn't select. An interviewer discovered Markus; knew he would make TV, and foisted him on the Hair.

Whatever.... he was amusing in a trainwreck kinda way. His speeches, and his ability to stand around doing nothing (while still insisting on his awesomeness) remind me alot of many members of the high school classes that I have taught.
Haleth
I think part of the misunderstanding between Clay and Adam arose because Clay was assuming a familiarity that Adam wasn't feeling. The candidates haven't known each other very long and Adam is a reserved kid anyway. He might not have minded the comment coming from someone he felt more comfortable with, but Clay is still pretty much a stranger to him.
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