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TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery

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TotalAddict

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:37 pm

[Snipped virginity qua virginity.]

Funnyuntil

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:43 pm

How about a seminar about avoiding sports metaphors in the workplace?[/quote]

bahamarita, that is hilarious! You not only stepped up to the plate, you hit the ball out of the park! You are the MVP of ideas!

Nutjob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:43 pm

I wondered, given the short time frame, how the audiences were recruited -- IE, I imagine that somehow an audience was rounded up by the Learning Annex for a free class, topic TBA.[/quote]

I was wondering the same thing. I'd probably be pretty ticked off if I showed up for Capital Edge's "sex at work or how to do it or why to not do it or... well, we really don't have a focused topic" class and wasted a whole bunch of my time.

Whoever thought of Randal's outfit for the presentation should be hired immediately. He was dressed all in black with a red tie, standing in front of a sign saying "Stand Out!" in black font with a red exclamation point. Because of the repeated red vertical line on a black background, Randal was a perfect visual echo of the sign, suggesting that people make the subconscious connection that Randal himself "stands out!" and is therefore embodying what he's teaching. It was sheer genius. [/quote]

I noticed that, too. As awesome as Randal apparently is, that was probably his idea as well.

holdfast

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:47 pm

I would've fired Adam last night, because that presentation was crap--he sucked as a leader. They had a million topics to choose from, so there is no excuse for him. It's not enough to mention sex and think you're gonna get win because of the word.[/quote]

In the non-bizarro universe I would agree with you - however, in Trump Land, just mention sex and you are half way to winning.

Randal is the man. [/quote]

Only b/c no-one else is. There are, however, lots of stupid little boys (though one less now).

Did anyone else think that Trump's "sex has cost me a lot of money" was a funny hooker reference? No? Just me? Okay. [/quote]

Assumed it was just about alimony, but the two are certainly not mutually exclusive.

And nobody forced Adam to take such a large role in the presentation.
As the PM, he should have minimalized his speaking time if he felt so uncomfortable. He could have easily set himself up as an emcee or coordinator, so that he's not the one actually discussing the meat of the topic.[/quote]

Yeah - but then you can be accused of D&D (Delegate and Disappear)

AdrienneP

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:52 pm

Most has been said, but... random extra thoughts...

Because it can not be said enough, give me more Shirtless Randall!!

Given that Adam helped save Clay by saying that he didn't believe Clay was anti-Semetic, it was pretty pissy of Clay to say, "don't talk to me" in the elevator. He did know that his comment bothered Adam, so that wasn't blindsiding at all, IMO.

Did any one else notice (or maybe I was dreaming?) that Carolyn started the boardroom in her hot gown, but in a later shot of her she was wearing a beige/brown shirt? Like the boardroom was edited more than usual.

Markus with that yooge stogie on the balcony, ew.

As for Trumpy's sex education lecture and "Spaghetti v. Steak" ruminations... gross, sad, inappropriate, and hysterical all at the same time. It don't get no better than that, people.

Philyra

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:54 pm

With regards to the scores:

If I recall correctly, the scores for the Tethno Expo were also misleadingly close (7.8 to 8.0 or something like that), despite it appearing to be a clear and decisive victory for Randal's team. It seems as though the numerical scores are pretty arbitrary, and the comments are a much better determiner of how the teams really performed. At least during the Expo, Capital Edge got a couple of good-fair compliments ('I had fun', 'Thanks for the pretty girls') in addition to their craptacular ones. I know Carolyn couldn't read all the comments, but not a single one she read for the losing team this week was even remotely positive.

blackwing

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:56 pm

Given that Adam helped save Clay by saying that he didn't believe Clay was anti-Semetic, it was pretty pissy of Clay to say, "don't talk to me" in the elevator. He did know that his comment bothered Adam, so that wasn't blindsiding at all, IMO.[/quote]I didn't think it was pissy. Adam tried to get Clay fired by saying that Clay made Jewish comments. Trump himself said he didn't believe Clay was anti-semetic, so it wasn't getting Adam anywhere. It came across to me as a very poor way to try and get Clay fired.

Did any one else notice (or maybe I was dreaming?) that Carolyn started the boardroom in her hot gown, but in a later shot of her she was wearing a beige/brown shirt? Like the boardroom was edited more than usual.[/quote]I thought she was wearing the hot gown in the "reveal the results" phase. Everyone goes to the boardroom, they find out who won. I thought it wasn't until the next day that the winners go on their reward, and later that evening, they have the firing boardroom. Or something like that.

toasterwaffle

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:57 pm

Sex in the Workplace: Yes, you can talk about it in a mature, adult manner. You can use words that do not touch peoples' hot buttons. You can monitor the audience for <i>their</i> feeling for how the topic is going or not going and you can compensate accordingly. All of these things are within the abilities of a decent public speaker. But because Capital Edge is filled with people incapable of monitoring their own internal landscape, much less anybody else's, they couldn't pull it off.

That's one of the many, many reasons Randal is such a smart candidate. Clearly he has a strong understanding of how to deal with people, even troublemakers like Markus and Clay. Nobody else besides Marshawn thinks of those things as being worth the trouble. No, they are "salesmen" and "champion of the scabard" and "pushup queen."

Mollymorgan

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:58 pm

[Snipped discussion of virginity, religion, and marriage.]

llsquared

Nov 4, 2005 @ 3:59 pm

Did any one else notice (or maybe I was dreaming?) that Carolyn started the boardroom in her hot gown, but in a later shot of her she was wearing a beige/brown shirt? Like the boardroom was edited more than usual.
[/quote]

I noticed this too, but if you saw the small gag she surpressed when DT was leering at her like the dirty old man he is (did I imagine that?) you may have assumed (as I did) that she had covered up because I do believe that she still had on a very nice set of stockings that seem like the kind I would wear if I were going out in a dress like that.

And IMHO I think she rocked that dress.

readabook

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:02 pm

Grow up and follow the rules. They're really not that hard.

AdrienneP

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:06 pm

Everyone goes to the boardroom, they find out who won. I thought it wasn't until the next day that the winners go on their reward, and later that evening, they have the firing boardroom. Or something like that.[/quote]
Oh, okay, maybe my timeline was screwy. I also thought, like llsquared that she perhaps covered up to keep Trumpy's drool off.

fposte

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:08 pm

[More virginity speechifying.]

Therixter

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:09 pm

I was actually very impressed with lil' Adam last night. His pulling Marcus aside last night was, in my opinion, good people management skills--his choices were to:

1. Let Marcus blather on and on (as he was trying to do) and waste a lot of time,
2. Yell at Marcus to shut up in front of the rest of the workers (NOT a good management technique), or
3. Take him aside, soothe his feathers (actually MANAGE him), get him to agree that at that point, he just needs to be quiet, and then bring him back in.

Adam chose #3, and by so doing, he softly scolded Marcus in a non-embarassing way (except for, you know, the entire viewing audience watching it), all the while letting the rest of the team silently know exactly what he was doing.

He was also very good in the Board Room, I thought, respectful and balanced and not angry and finger-pointery. He seemed to be pretty calm throughout. Give him a few years and some acne scars, and I believe that the Miami Vice era Edward James Olmos could play him in "Adam! The Musical!"

Now his PROJECT Management skills, on the other hand, were simply attrocious.

andrewd

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:15 pm

Just kicking in my two cents:

ADAM: Still a little young for the job he is going for. I think his instincts about the "Sex In The Workplace" topic were correct. Unless you really know what you are talking about, (and no - just because you have had sex does not mean you can even begin to give a lecture on the topic in question), you take a big chance that you will offend some of the audience, spend too much time making juvenile jokes, and generally make a jackass of yourself, as the members of Capital Edge did last night. Adam, you made the right initial call, you shouldn't have buckled in to your team's wishes - bad leadership.

CLAY: As ender988 and Hail Eris have pointed out. I don't believe that Clay is in anyway anti-semitic and felt that he was just trying to build on Adam's ill-advised Jewish boy comments. However, I do believe, admittedly based on the very little we saw on TV, that he was pretty crass. I agree that his "outing" to Trump eliminated him from being fired on this episode. DT could not have expressed surprise at Clay's sexuality and then turn around and fire him, even if justified (though it was a toss-up as to whether Clay, Adam or Markus should have been fired). I think that Clay's obnoxious qualities have been noted by Trump and the Viceroys and his time is limited.

SEX AT WORK: Again, as I mentioned before, why they would ever be so foolish to go for this topic is beyond me. They seem to have simply concentrated on how to get sex in the workplace, whereas you would expect at least some talk on typical company policies, legal rights, etc. there are. It reminds me of the guys on the Lamborghini task. Wow, I love cars! We can't lose dude! I can almost imagine the I love sex, everybody loves sex, we can't lose mindset that seemed to grip them. It appeared that they felt that just saying the word Sex was going to wow the audience. Meanwhile, the PM is arguing that he is very uncomfortable with the subject and you still think it advisable to push it? Even though you already have a member of the team - Markus - who is automatically sidelined from any task, and now you potentially are doing the same with another of your limited resources. Again, Adam should definitely have put his foot down.

ALLA: I also blame her for pushing the topic. I do believe, however, that she could probably have spoken well on the subject. I wonder if she participated greatly in the presentation? It could explain why the final scores were so close.

MARKUS: Sorry, for pure entertainment purposes, that he is gone. I must agree though, that he had divorced himself from the whole process and I don't think even he had any more interest in being the Apprentice.

TRUMP: I enjoyed the whole "That's why we have menus" analysis of people's sexuality, but cringed when he was not willing to extend this to Adam. Admittedly, Adam was in for a grilling because he accepted a topic that he was obviously uncomfortable with. But this segment seemed to go on way too long. Why should Adam have to discuss his sexual proclivity in the boardroom? Yuck!

Nutjob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:19 pm

Adam chose #3, and by so doing, he softly scolded Marcus in a non-embarassing way (except for, you know, the entire viewing audience watching it), all the while letting the rest of the team silently know exactly what he was doing.[/quote]

I thought this was good, too. He avoiding embarrassing Markus while still dealing with the situation. Adam seems to be good with people--just not so good with the project direction. Heh.

Back on Randal, he is now the only one to have PM'ed twice, and he has just quietly been a star both times. In fact, Rebecca, Adam and Felisha are the only ones remaining who have lost the task they managed, which puts them way behind Randal, Alla, Marshawn, Brian and Clay.

CheekyCricket

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:19 pm

I didn't think it was pissy. Adam tried to get Clay fired by saying that Clay made Jewish comments. Trump himself said he didn't believe Clay was anti-semetic, so it wasn't getting Adam anywhere. It came across to me as a very poor way to try and get Clay fired.[/quote]
Well, we can agree to disagree on that, I hope. I don't want to rehash all the rehashings of this particular topic, but at least Adam was upfront with Clay immediately after the presentation, when he told Clay that he was offended by the remark, so Clay should not have been surprised when it came up in the boardroom. If he was, then he's much more naive than I would expect him to be.

However, Clay really really needs to improve his public image if he's going to make it through the next few episodes. To do that, I think he needs to swallow his pride a bit, and look like someone who can get along with others. Sulking and snipping at his teammates isn't going to help him look like a winning candidate.

RainbowRat

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:26 pm

This was an awesome episode, better than last week. I was all shrieks and wide-eyed "Ohmigod" gasps with my fists pressed against my mouth at that Boardroom. Wow, Adam IS a virgin. I haven't read all the publinterviews and extra stuff about the candidates, so I thought Jacob (as well as CLAY!) was just exaggerating for comedic effect when he said all that stuff in last week's recap. 'Course, wasn't till last week's recap was posted this Weds that I realized there even was this Adam dude and he was different from Brian. (Adam, be mine. First, we'll compare SAT scores and then we'll decline beautiful Latin nouns together...) And I was totally cheering Randal and Marshawn in all the scenes of their presentation. Does Randal have to win? I'd rather he did something truly successful out in the real world, like where I could work for them. C'mon, Randal, hire me!!
foultemptress and AdrienneP:

Shirtless! Randal![/quote]Ohhhhhhh yes. No, it cannot be said enough.

I originally had a paragraph about Clay and "tight", but enough folks have weighed in. Count me on the "inappropriate like all the other inappropriate things he said, but not anti-semitic" side. But word to lovefool1978 back on page 3:

In a professional setting, when you're around people unlike you in some vital and sensitive way, and they're joking about themselves, you don't get to join in.[/quote]
Amen, sibling.

I heard Clay say "Don't even look at me" in the elevator, but I thought maybe it was because the two of them might crack up in glee about Markus being gone. Then I saw Clay slam the door open to the suite and not bother holding it open for Adam. Whatta dick. So Clay is angry because Adam dared take him into the boardroom, which is just so wrong and disrespectful because everything Clay says and everything Clay does is just a shining example of rightness and appropriateness. Phooey. I hope Alla steps on his neck once they're back in the suite. Two weeks ago I said I was privately betting Alla would be the one to pull a Tana in this group, but now I think Clay is the Tana. *You're* the Tana!! (tm "Romy & Michelle's High School Reunion").

I think also Randal has a real and truly amazing talent for taking dull and boring stuff and making it relate to an audience in a way that's personal and exciting for them. We saw it at the Best Buy expo, and at the golf expo last week (I give him some of the credit for shaping that), and now at this presentation. People have posted that you learn this stuff in college or grad school, but I say to that "not necessarily." And just going through a course on presentation doesn't mean you can do what Randal does. I couldn't. And I loved in the interview afterwards how up and enthused he still was. Oh Randal, throw the game!! Be the pied piper for willing worker-bee followers!

This failure shows the cracks in Alla's foundation, I think. She took over this project, took credit for the good ideas and when it failed left Adam as the "team leader" holding the bag. JMO-YMMV. Alla still scares me, so I'm looking for reasons to hate her and un-root for her. Yes, I'm a bad person. So?

Did anyone else notice that Felicia was wearing her BFF Alla's red sash at the Boardroom?

I think we can easily call Marcus "anti-semantic."[/quote] Still funny, DeepintheHeart. Should be his thread title.

I was actually not super-squicked at the Donald's pervuncular (tm Jacob) sex lecture. It was kind of sweet, in a bumbling, awkward, totally-appropriate-to-the-daliesqueness(tm AuntieMame)-of-the-episode way. And Adam handled it well. Good for him.

UncleJemima

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:45 pm

I was fascinated by Alla's hijacking of the boardroom to finish off Clay. She sensed when little Adam would falter and then would pick up the argument for him while he stupidly nodded in agreement with her. She's like a lioness teaching her young how to kill. It's as if she views them all as disposable people and now she's crafting her group to be disposable people who don't annoy her. Brutal!

jennifda

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:48 pm

Can you imagine what Donald would have asked if Adam had denied being a virgin? "How many partners have you had, what were their names and when did the encounters take place?"

Not overly fond of Adam, but glad he chose to not discuss it to spare us from the above.

Irma in Green

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:48 pm

Preview for next week:

The Apprentice, Star Wars

As the losing team meets in the boardroom:

Trumpy: This was a yoooug loss! This firing will be easier than ever. "I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters."

Losing Team (in unison): "We aren't the droids you're looking for."

Trumpy: "You're not the droids I'm looking for."

Losing Team (in unison): "You can go about your business."

Trumpy: "You can go about your business."

Losing Team (in unison): "Move along."

Trumpy: "Move along... move along. Return to the loft, send me the other team."

Carolyn to Brian: "Aren't you a little short to be a stormtrooper?"

And, if only we had not lost Markus this week:

Markus: "Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal. Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?" [winces]

Robin: "We're sending a squad up."

Markus: "Uh, uh, negative. We had a reactor leak here now. Give us a minute to lock it down. Large leak, very dangerous."

Robin: "Who is this? What's your operating number?"

Markus: "Uh..." [shoots the loft's phallic-symbol "This will be better in ten years" phone]

Markus: [mutters] "Boring conversation anyway. I didn't have a clue."

KzooKat

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:50 pm

Have you ever had sex? Are you a homosexual? Aaaaarrrrrggghhh!!! I am done, done I tell you, with this show. I changed my TiVo from 1 thumb up to 3 thumbs down. Trump is such a skeeze.

I have no doubt Randal will be the next Apprentice, and he will have earned it. He's brilliant and a hard worker. It's going to kill Trump to hire a black man (an "overeducated" black man -- holla, Kevin! -- at that) but he's left himself no other choice. Clay will be out (no pun intended), Adam and Brian are too young, and the rest are women -- and Trump learned his lesson with that. (Holla, Kendra!)

Apprentice: Martha rules!!!

Jacob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:52 pm

Fishfive

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:54 pm

Markus telling Trump that he didn't believe it when Trump wished him good luck - way to be a total fucking asshole. [/quote]

I forgot about that. And then he said something like, "It's been nothing but railroad tracks since Day 1" or something nonsensical like that, and Trump was like, huh?

But then he seemed to realize how stupid he was and said thanks in some way before leaving.

But man, what a ticking time bomb. He's one of those people who stews with their thoughts and doesn't say anything until they blow up at a random moment later. I think it's actually a gene in my family, come to think of it.

Chukkal

Nov 4, 2005 @ 4:55 pm

I'm shocked at Donald Trump's behavior in the board room. Since when does a potential boss get away with inquiring as to a person's sexual behavior? What would have happened if he'd asked that question of one of the women? Maybe Donald needs to attend a class on Sex in the Board Room!!

lilianna28

Nov 4, 2005 @ 5:20 pm

Please avoid personal discussions of your virginity, how you feel about virginity, how or when you lost your virginity, how awesome you are for waiting/not waiting, or any of your overarching theories on sexuality

This thread is about the 7th episode of Season Four of The Apprentice.

Drop the rest of it or get banned; it's off-topic and pointless.[/quote]

O.K., so in reading this quickly I totally got "this thread isn't for 7th Heaven, it's for Apprentice" from it. Maybe nothing has offended me thus far because I'm not reading close enough, or because I got here too late and Jacob has already done his appropriate snipping. Oh well. I'll have to <sigh> follow the rules and stay on topic. We are a bunch of baddies, aren't we?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this episode pressed so many hot buttons. I'm still giggling at Donald's complete surprise at Clay's being gay- I mean, we've seen the Pizza commercials, that man cannot act, so I have to say he must have been shocked. Wow. And come on, how can you not laugh at his shock at finding a reallity show contestant who isn't comfortable talking about sex? He's just such a fricking Doofus. I had a big "whoa, how'd you get virgin from this conversation" moment though, when he started going on about Adam enjoying sex "one day." I'd bet he's a Good Momma's Boy who doesn't want his parents to know he gets his freak on before I'd jump straight to "virgin."

I don't get the Alla love, though the UncleJemima quote:

She's like a lioness teaching her young how to kill. It's as if she views them all as disposable people and now she's crafting her group to be disposable people who don't annoy her. Brutal![/quote]
helps me see her in a different light. I think it's because as soon as she joined the coven, my mind said "done" and moved on. I can't really think of any "Alla rocks!" moments- I didn't think she was impressive with the car photoshoot, she bitched too much when Rebecca was PM and totally cackled with the rest of the crows when they "set up" Toral (deserving, though it might have been). I just don't get the love.

kwantasy

Nov 4, 2005 @ 5:39 pm

The first thing I thought after the show was that this episode touched on some controversial issues: sex, virginity, homesexuality, anti-Semitism. Not that it discussed them intelligently or maturely in any way whatsoever, but it was hilarious to see!

Clay deserved to get fired for such ill-judged, unprofessional behavior. But Markus deserved it, too, really. If you never contribute and actually impede your team's progress (as Markus did when he refused to make any sense in talking, and when Adam had to take him aside), then you can definitely be blamed for a close loss: what was it, .04 points? Add that to Markus' past behavior, and he deserves to get fired.

Of course, so did Clay. Regardless of what he meant with the tight Jewish boy comment, you just don't do that in a room full of strangers! And the rest of his comments during the presentation didn't help either. Those alone could've been the reason for such a close loss - maybe a couple of really offended people gave 0's or 1's because of those comments. I'm thinking part of the reason he didn't get fired, though, is because some people, rightly or wrongly, might have thought that it was because he was gay (in an episode featuring openly gay Michael Kors, that would not have been a good thing). So why not go with Markus, who has just generally performed dismally?

OTOH, I don't think Adam deserved to get fired, because he did a generally decent job of managing, and his presentation skills were ok (I don't think his discomfort with the topic came across during the presentation). The topic itself was ok, too, and he did well defending himself in the boardroom. I think his main problem is that he, as PM, should've done a better job coming up with some sort of objective for the presentation. Apparently, the objective was to teach people how to deal with relationships in the workplace, if it comes up...but that obviously didn't come across. And that definitely didn't come across in the title! Some of those synonyms for sex were really funny...they went from "Intimacy" to "Intercourse." I don't think you could've gotten Adam to say "Copulation at Work," though.

I definitely think the Final 3 will be Randall, Alla and Marshawn, with the Final 2 being Randall and Alla. Alla's impressed me several times, from handling that Lamborghini video shoot, to winning the Dick's task by over 100 percentage points, to her ability to deal with difficult people (Clay and Markus) both in the last task and this one. And Randall, well, he took a boring topic and made it work. Although I still think that, given the margin of Excel's win, they should've chosen a slightly more interesting topic. Something between Making Your Mark and Sex at Work.

Overall, this episode was even better than the last one. Can't wait to see next week's - maybe it'll be three in a row!

babyfrances

Nov 4, 2005 @ 5:44 pm

One thing Adam had going for him was how he opened the presentation (I can't call it a 'class' because I don't think there was any teaching or learning going on). I thought the way he was hiding in the audience was a good opener to get the audience's attention and the way he just dropped 'Sex at Work' would have been really good in terms of setting a tone (direct, straightforward) if they had followed up on it. Also, the idea of having him just suddenly appear out of the audience is sort of like the subject...sexual relationships at work appear among you when you least expect it, whatever. It just seemed like a good presentation technique, especially if the audience didn't know the topic ahead of time. Maybe it wasn't Adam's idea, but it was brave of him to do it and pull it off well.

Something that really bugged me, though, was all the talk of 'sex at work' and 'sex in the workplace.' Everyone kept talking like that...George and Trump included. It's like, okay, you're not talking about literally having sex AT work or literally IN the workplace (and if you are, then it's not a good topic for a Learning Annex class). If the team had chosen better and more accurate descriptions like 'personal relationships between co-workers,' 'flirting in the workplace,' 'sexual harassment,' 'using your sexuality at work' and so on, the task would have been less of a failure as they would have been forced to actually define what they were talking about.

This is turning into a pro-Adam post and I don't even like the guy or think he was a good PM, but I do want to say that I thought it was great that he had his wits about him enough to immediately reply that he wasn't comfortable discussing it in the boardroom when Trump asked him if he was a virgin. I know if I had been in his shoes, I would have been so flabbergasted by the question that I probably would have answered and then regretted it forever.

UncleJemima

Nov 4, 2005 @ 5:48 pm

I can't really think of any "Alla rocks!" moments- I didn't think she was impressive with the car photoshoot, she bitched too much when Rebecca was PM and totally cackled with the rest of the crows when they "set up" Toral (deserving, though it might have been). I just don't get the love.[/quote]

I can't say I love Alla, but I do find her extremely ruthless, which is kind of praiseworthy in this context, and I can't get a read on what value she places, if any, on loyalty either. It's clear to me now that she was the wolf hiding among the blonde sheep, and it wouldn't seem smart for The Donald to keep someone with that lean and hungry look too close, if you see what I'm saying.

Although I still think that, given the margin of Excel's win, they should've chosen a slightly more interesting topic. Something between Making Your Mark and Sex at Work.[/quote]

Making Sex at Work Your Mark?

Obleek

Nov 4, 2005 @ 5:51 pm

I didn't think it was pissy. Adam tried to get Clay fired by saying that Clay made Jewish comments. Trump himself said he didn't believe Clay was anti-semetic, so it wasn't getting Adam anywhere. It came across to me as a very poor way to try and get Clay fired.

[/quote][/quote]

Adam said Clay's overall presentation was bad. The Jewish comment was just an example of Clay's poor presentation and judgement. I think Adam chose correctly - Clay for awkward blabbing that probably contributed to lower points from the attendees, and Markus for disruption and being a poor team player.

Clay's "Don't talk to me" just reminded me of Alla's assessment of him being the "insecure bitchy woman times 1000". Snap! and Meow!

monkeyinchaps

Nov 4, 2005 @ 5:53 pm

I don't think either Markus or Clay caused the loss of the task (they weren't teaching anything, anyway...at most Clay's blunders demonstrate that intrinsic flaw)-but they were the most appropriate teammates to bring in. Markus...well for his endless runon sentences and general ineptitude and Clay as what I think of as making a pretty egregious general business blunder. It doesn't really matter to me what his intention was with the word "tight" as juxtaposed next to the word "Jew" because unless he lives under a rock somewhere he should know the negative connotations it can imply (and I highly doubt he isn't aware of the stereotype). And to willfully juxtapose those two words next to one another in a presentation in front of an audience (in an official capacity no less) demonstrates a pretty sound lack of judgment and understanding of one's audience and what's considered business professionalism today. A member of a minority group identifying themselves as such isn't an open invitation for someone else to make a stereotype about it-"I am a conservative Jew from Atlanta" doesn't translate into "so riff off of my ethnic identity for laughs." So while I don't think he's anti-semitic, I think he made his own bed. I mean, there are only a very few cardinal rules of race relations in the workplace (don't bring it up as much as humanly possible, avoid as many stereotypes and generalizations as possible and if you're part of said group don't joke with another member about an "in-crowd" joke in front of other people) and the fact that he's stupid enough to flout a pretty basic one (and in light of season 2's Jen C debacle) shows me that he's not qualified for an executive roll. I don't blame Adam for going after him one bit. Hell, if he came to my law firm and said that comment with no ill intentions whatsoever...he'd be a marked man there, too.

ETA: although maybe The Donald just doesn't care considering that his commentary during Boardroom was just one giant HR nightmare. I half-expected him to turn around and ask Carolyn if she was going to get preggers any time soon, too.

Jacob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:04 pm

tres francaise

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:14 pm

...it wouldn't seem smart for The Donald to keep someone with that lean and hungry look too close, if you see what I'm saying.[/quote]

True, UncleJemima. Who was it that said 'Keep your friends close, your enemies closer?' Alla seems to have a real instinct for the jugular, or.....wherever.

Nutjob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:16 pm

"I am a conservative Jew from Atlanta" doesn't translate into "so riff off of my ethnic identity for laughs."[/quote]

Exactly. That's exactly how I've been trying to verbalize my problem with that -- not the tongue-tied subsititution of "tight" for "uptight," which is squicky, and not the fact that Clay was already totally freaking me out, but this exact thing: coming in under my joke umbrella and looking assy in the process.[/quote]

ITA. And if anyone else had done the same thing with regards to Clay being gay, that would also not be okay, even though he was the one who brought it up. Adam was trying to be self-depricating in the interest of endearing himself to the audience, IMO. He wasn't opening the door for a Jew-joke free for all.

odietamo

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:17 pm

I'm sorry, but Adam did make something up: he outright lied. Clay did not say tight assed Jew, and he did not make inappropriate comments about Jews throughout the presentation. [/quote]

I respectfully disagree. Adam did not lie. I personally saw and heard Clay say a 'tight ass Jewish boy'. By the way, Adam's reaction to this comment was very telling.

And if you make comments about being a good little Jewish boy, and someone who is not Jewish joins in, and you are offended, a simple "that was inappropriate" explanation will suffice, not the harping and whining that the opportunistic liar Adam took to the boardroom. [/quote]

Clay made so many comments about his sexual preference (very tasteless comments, btw). If Adam, Alla, Markus or Felisha made a comment about a nice 'tight ass gay boy' or something along those lines, each of them would've been called a bigot. Clay's unprofessional conduct took several points off the CE's grades. By not firing Clay, Donald Trump sends out a message that it is ok to talk like Clay in a work place. I believe this is a very Wrong and Misleading message!

AuntieKaren

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:24 pm

Whoever thought of Randal's outfit for the presentation should be hired immediately.[/quote]
He looked great, didn't he?

DT: Adam, you're soft!

ADAM: I can prove to you that I can be hard![/quote]
Eep, yes! I nearly forgot that exchange! That was possibly the funniest line of the entire episode, given the context of what they were all talking about.

Brent724

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:40 pm

DT: Adam, you're soft!

ADAM: I can prove to you that I can be hard![/quote]

LOL... I had forgotten about that one. Priceless.

bball92

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:39 pm

Clay Is Gay!

Didnt know that!

monkeyinchaps

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:45 pm

Adam was trying to be self-depricating in the interest of endearing himself to the audience, IMO.[/quote]

Although, I'll be fair and say that I really didn't think this was the best idea on Adam's part either because it seems as though it just opened the door for at least one well-meaning (or at least non-maliciously intentioned) person without a common-sense detector (Clay, I'm looking at you) to put their foot in it and resulted in hurt feelings and discomfiture all around. Yet another great example of how and why their unstructured presentation was so ill-conceived-the more opportunity there is for public freestyling on a provocative subject...the more likely you are to venture into the realm of "oh, you did not just say that!"

My interpretation of Adam's "I am a conservative Jewish guy" commentary was-hey, this is a difficult subject, I understand b/c this is my background (ethic identity + Southern) but it's something we all need to discuss as part of the business environment this being a course on professionalism and all. But why go there at all unless absolutely necessary-especially when the potential for pitfalls are so high? At least he recouped nicely in deflecting Trump on the sex question.

Edited for grammar.

Beatlefreak

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:48 pm

I was stunned when Donald asked Adam about his sex life. In a "real corporate board room," that would be grounds for a lawsuit. Very unprofessional of "The Donald," but he can do what he wants...apparently.

Nutjob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:49 pm

Although, I'll be fair and say that I really didn't think this was the best idea on Adam's part either because it seems as though it just opened the door for at least one well-meaning (or at least non-maliciously intentioned) person without a common-sense detector (Clay, I'm looking at you) to put their foot in it and resulted in hurt feelings and discomfiture all around. Yet another great example of how and why their unstructured presentation was so ill-conceived-the more opportunity there is for public freestyling on a provocative subject...the more likely you are to venture into the realm of "oh, you did not just say that!" [/quote]

Oh, I agree completely. The entire topic left way too much room for someone to do exactly what Clay did. It was TMI meets Just Don't Go There.

Rowr17

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:51 pm

Trust me - I've worked with PhD's who can't find a coherent sentence with a flashlight and a map[/quote]

I didn't know Markus had a PhD.

So, in the scenes for next week, they show Donald in the boardroom saying something like "I can't understand a word you say, you're fired." Since DT saved us all from having to listen to the stream of consciousness on shuffle by firing Markus this week, I wonder who he is talking about.

In other news, I think there is something wrong with me. I just can't stop watching the final 5 minutes of last night's show. I had a rough day, and it just makes me laugh. This is one episode that won't be deleted from my Tivo anytime soon.

nubbs

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:52 pm

Trying to do the math in my head....

Could Markus be the bastard son of Alexander Haig?

Nutjob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:54 pm

So, in the scenes for next week, they show Donald in the boardroom saying something like "I can't understand a word you say, you're fired." Since DT saved us all from having to listen to the stream of consciousness on shuffle by firing Markus this week, I wonder who he is talking about. [/quote]

I think that was part of the skit where he "fires" Chewbacca. At the end, you see Chewie hauling his rolly case to the elevator.

Hail Eris

Nov 4, 2005 @ 6:57 pm

Nutjob beat me to it -- I, too, agree with monkeyinchaps' second post. Adam is just as much to blame for inapproprite commentary by virtue of his bringing up being Jewish. (And if you look at the E!B!F!, Adam had actually brought up the "innocent, conservative Jew from Atlanta" bit before, when they were still just tossing around the idea of Sex At Work.) At least Clay's opening the door to his homosexuality was related to the topic! Adam was merely interjecting "I'm a Jew" all over the place because... he thought it was related to the topic? I don't know. But to bring it up. Over. And over. And over again. And then be offended that someone else says something about it? (...albeit admittedly at an inopportune moment.) Smacks of hypocrisy.

shutitdown

Nov 4, 2005 @ 7:11 pm

Had to chime in to agree with someone waaaaay upthread who thought Adam was Ross Geller-esque. I totally thought that too and wondered why I had no memory of seeing him before this episode.

Best reward of the season IMO! They had a LOT of shopping bags in hand when they left. I would love to do something like that.

Not touching, so to speak, the whole Sex in the Workplace, virginity, Adam/Clay debate.

TotalAddict

Nov 4, 2005 @ 7:13 pm

I have to go back to look, but I think that what Adam said first was actually "nice Jewish boy." And I don't know if anybody else shares this experience, but in my family -- half of which is Jewish -- that's an idiom. As in, "Why can't you find a nice Jewish boy and settle down?" Or "Her grandson is such a nice Jewish boy." Those 3 words always, always go together. And I don't think anybody in my family would consider that "bringing up being Jewish" in the sense that it opened the door for anybody else to comment on it.

It may be Adam's fault for not thinking that idiom through, but I doubt he was implying that his being Jewish had anything to do with his opinions or character and he certainly wasn't asking Clay to join in on the joke -- as evidenced by his (slightly over-the-top) reaction.

Quiddler

Nov 4, 2005 @ 7:15 pm

Hilltop

Nov 4, 2005 @ 7:26 pm

Adam can claim discrimination in (not) hiring him eventually, too. And maybe harm to his reputation out in the real world after this broadcast.

Oh, please! Won't some lawyer see this and convince Adam to sue this ignorant, pretentious, homophobic and sexist jackass? [/quote]

In the real world that might work, but these reality show contestants sign away so many of their rights when they agree to be on shows like this. Most reality show contracts have clauses that say if you sign the contract, you can't sue for anything that came as a result of doing the show, including anything that would be considered humiliating, abusive, physically damaging, etc. The contracts also usually say that the producers have the right to alter public perception of you (i.e., ruin your reputation) if they want to do that. That's why if they want to edit you to look worse than you really are, they can.

Reality show contracts are so extreme that if you went on a reality show and died because of something that happened on the show, your heirs wouldn't be able to sue for damages. If you hear about anyone suing a reality show, those lawsuits almost always get dismissed because of the contracts that were signed before the person went on the show. These contracts are really scary and that's why I would never go on a reality show.

Anway, this Apprentice episode was so cringeworthy with all the "too much information" talk. I'm not upset that Markus got fired before Clay. It doesn't really matter in the long run because neither of them was going to win anyway.

intrepide

Nov 4, 2005 @ 7:31 pm

Isn't there a function in Word where you can get it to give you a clarity score? It'd be funny to type in Markus's cabterview and then run it. I wonder if there's code in the software allowing it to just say 'I give up.'[/quote]
There's software available that detects themes in written content. I'm sure a sample of Markus' verbal markusing would crash the application in an endless do-loop.

Trump is always so bizarre in the boardroom anyway--he reminds me of a big turtle as he swivels that head on his shoulders and peers out at the world.[/quote]
At the end of the last two boardrooms, DT's posture and facial expression are at the yoogest, highest, trumpiest levels of self-satisfaction. Something about him makes me think of a frog. After Trump's moment of bizarro-zen--"Life continues" or "I'm comfortable with that"--I expect him to punctuate the statement by flicking his tongue to capture an insect.

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