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TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery

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Brent724

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:10 am

Substantive content, please.

Stardancer2001

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:10 am

The boardroom was a joke… literally. A virgin, a gay guy and an asshole go into a boardroom to get sex advice from Donald Trump…. You fill in the punch line. [/quote]

Man, I can't believe I passed this up to watch C.S.I.! Sounds like comedy gold.

Lead Magnet

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:11 am

GoddessMelissa:

Next Week: Adam loses his virginity to Chewbacca.[/quote]

"Oy gevalt!"

I'm going to otherwise avoid the entire Adam v. Clay topic and resurrect a couple of other things mentioned earlier--whew.

First, the editing builds up a potential blowout with the squabbling and the Potentially Misunderstood Comment, but the scores aren't very far apart. Excel, as Jacob put it in the recap, may have "create[d] a stunningly uninteresting but very informative and well-crafted seminar on 'Making Your Mark'," but CE's final score was competitive--more so than in the Tethno Expo disaster, though it's still decimal places they end up with. Unfortunately all their airtime was spent on the Potentially Misunderstood Comment but also on setting up Markus's trip to Loserville. How did the others do?

Second, then, this was the second "teach a class" style challenge this season. I think that about does it for this idea. The edit"H"H"H"Hwriting staff does a great job spinning it all into stuff that's interesting to watch, and they probably like being able to mold ambiguous outcomes out of it, but I wish there were more clever challenges as they head toward the resolution of the game. And, well, I'd never have expected the show to feature Learning Annex as a corporate sponsor. I'm surprised it wasn't about "Branding" as always :P

And, well, Branding. It looks like they're going to promote Star Wars: Battlefront II next week by the promo, and I have a feeling I'm going to be cringing a lot.

ETA footnote: Just when you thought last week's episode thread was going to be unbeatably long, now we have this week!

Brent724

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:11 am

Substantive content, please.

immutabilis

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:17 am

Argh, I cannot believe Clay got away but I knew he would the minute he said he was gay. Trump would not fire him for fear of appearing he is firing Clay because of his sexual orientation.

[Thanks for not telling your fellow posters about how "most" women feel about sex.]

I thought Adam was very deft in handling Trump's rude questions in the Boardroom. There is nothing wrong with being conservative about sex, or to have never had sex. Bravo, Adam!

dangergirljones

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:19 am

Wow, last night gave me a little too much info on how TrumpDaddy sounded when he gave Jr. the sex talk.

I have to say that I don't think Adam failed as a project manager- I think his team failed him in pushing him to take on a topic that he was so completely uncomfortable with. And even if they had gone with the topic- they should have agreed as a team that his actual speaking participation would be minimal becasue of that. Sex is one of those topics, like religion, that you just can't force someone to feel comfortable talking about. I really feel they crossed that line.

Also, their seminar would have been sooooo much better if they had simply never actually discussed sex- discuss everything around it- but never actually it - that's how you handle it with "class".

My two favorite moments:

- Clay dressed in a pink & yellow flowered shirt, pulling out of his closet the exact same shirt like "hmm, maybe I should have wear this one instead?"

- Adam in the boardroom making it clear that Clay was not antisemetic - a rare show of class & intelligence from a group of people increasingly the opposite. You might be a virgin Adam, but at least your a gentleman.

ToyaS

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:25 am

Sallins

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:25 am

Also, their seminar would have been sooooo much better if they had simply never actually discussed sex- discuss everything around it- but never actually it - that's how you handle it with "class".[/quote]

I agree with that and for a while it seemed like that's where they were going to go with the class but it ended up getting sidetracked somewhere. They could have also had a winner in the time management class if Markus had expressed it clearly.

The new Excel team is going to be unstoppable now, I think the winner is going to be one of the four on Excel.

That was really rude of Trump and the producers not to call up to the suite after a few hours of the rest waiting and tell them that none of the four are coming back.

nubbs

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:27 am

Did anyone else think that Trump's "sex has cost me a lot of money" was a funny hooker reference? No? Just me? Okay. [/quote]

That's exactly what sprang to my mind as well. (Alla was probably thinking 'I bet it did, in my day even a lap dance was $20.').

I think this was Kelly's first appearance because it took them this long to find him. After he was hired they stuck him under a dustcover in some building they were renovating and just as they were finishing up, they were like 'Holy Shit! It's Kelly!'

I too agree that I hope Randall gets fired. With his resume and winning personality he could easily do better than being a shill for Trump. (God, I hope this isn't some kind of set up where we suddenly find him wanting with three episodes to go.)

Donald is out of his mind for asking Adam about his sexual experience. I think I would have have just sat there stunned. I think I've been asked a direct question like that once in my life and that was by a very close female friend. Sure as hell not by an employer. Pity Adam couldn't say 'Well, Mr Trump, I am hoping to be married once and one time only and think abstinence until marriage contributes to that. Because you know I'd hate to go through an endless cycle of marriage and divorce.'

Isn't there a function in Word where you can get it to give you a clarity score? It'd be funny to type in Markus's cabterview and then run it. I wonder if there's code in the software allowing it to just say 'I give up.' Honestly, I wonder if Markus didn't go on the show as some kind of prank or if he's an actor.

In short, if you like your reality tv bizarre, you hit the jackpot this evening.

Obladi

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:33 am

I have to say that, after last night's episode, Clay proved himself to be an "immature bitch woman" or whatever it was that Alla called him last week. Okay, maybe he was pissed that Adam jumped on his "tight Jewish boy" comment in the boardroom and used it to his advantage, but really, isn't that the point of the boardroom? You go in there to save your own ass and you use the failings of your teammates in order to do so. Get over it, Clay. You would totally have done the same thing, had you been in Adam's shoes. You're a jerk.[/quote]

I'm not sure if Clay would have gone along with claims that Adam's Judaism caused the audience to give low scores, which was the general point about Clay's homosexuality that Markus made and Alla-Adam did nothing to rebut. I'm not sure if Clay would have accepted Adam's apology and later twisted words around in the boardroom, or claim that Adam made other remarks, remarks we never even heard Adam reference until it was time to try to get Clay fired, remarks he never bothered to discuss, aside from some broad claim that Clay had repeatedly made anti-Semetic statements. Then again, Clay for better or worse has his own will, while Adam was only doing what Alla told him every step of the way. And after Adam participated in all this mess, he wanted to try to talk to him, maybe because he realized how horrible or desperate he came across in the boardroom. Clay should stop pitching fits, but this time I could understand his being put off at the hypocrisy.

telly

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:46 am

I knew Markus was going to go once he pulled out the yo-yo at the presentation. There is no way that that was going to fly in the boardroom. thank God for Carolyn!

While this was a totally crazy episode where I yelled shut up every time Markus opened his mouth, I think that Trump crossed the line in the boardroom. It was just so awkward listening to Trump's advice to Adam about sex, especially since he seems to acquire a progressively younger women with every divorce. And if Trump didn't have the money he did, no woman would go near The Hair. Sex or not.
So Trump can shut up about that.

Clay was also over the top but I agree that he didn't mean to comment on Adam's Jewishness as much as his uncomfortability about discussing sex. Adam saw that at the end.

Second week in a row with an excellent taxi cab confession.. and we haven't hit sweeps yet!

phaedrus20

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:48 am

In the context of what was being said at the seminar, it seems clear Clay's "tight" reference had to do with uptight and conservative, not cheap. Either way, that and many other comments he made were just stupid, inapprropriate and cringe inducing. This was a classic case for a double firing, moreso than the quadruple last week.

They both deserved to go.

Markus's last 5 words: "I don't have a clue." Classic. He summed it all up right there.

missy jo

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:47 am

it's not like Clay's comments were inappropriate because he's gay, they were inappropriate because they were inappropriate.[/quote]

The most important point to me was not possible anti-Semitism, but the fact that that comment and the ass-slapping comments could have cost them points with the audience, and as close as it was, lost them the task. The boardroom discussion got way off-track with that (as well as other topics!) IMO.

Sex in the Workplace could have been a good topic. They could have discussed sexual harassment, how to handle workplace crushes (I've seen this turn highly competent women into blithering idiots), a break-up, and sexual discrimination (including discrimination based on sexual orientation).[/quote]

It's a relevant topic and could have focused on ethics, etiquette, harassment, and the legal implications thereof. I read Brian as being uncomfortable not with the topic "sex" per se, but the wording and perhaps the content, because other teams have lost tasks in past seasons and been fired for using "sex" to sell. I think he was scared it was going to go that route.

The fact that Markus still couldn't shut up AFTER they fired him was hilarious.

Princess PJ

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:54 am

Next Week: Adam loses his virginity to Chewbaca.[/quote]

BWAH! That just made me choke on a piece of chocolate!

This episode was scary-good and painful at the same time. In the last half, I literally could not listen to a single goddam word that came out of Markus' mouth... I had to cover my ears, yelling, "Shut up, you're KILLING me, SHUT UP!" Good gravy, is that man the most clueless jackass in the history of forever. When he got fired, I pumped both fists in the air and hooted, much to the terror and consternation of my puppy.

Markus' ineptitude has dire effects, even for cocker spaniels.

lmwilker

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:55 am

I thought the big problem with the sex presentation as it was shown it us was there was no mention of sexual harrassment which is a big deal and very complicated. It was all about classy and fun but there can be serious consequences even if you are not the one directly involved. People can sue for hostile environment if other people are dating and there are PDAs or one person is seen to be given preferential treatment. Many companies have strict prohibitions and guidelines about internal dating. I couldn't believe this wasn't their focus.

Still, wasn't that big of a difference between the customer satisfaction scores. That surprised me and made me suspect the editing.

I didn't see Clay's "Tight-assed Jewish boy" to be about money because Adam had already referred to himself as a "Nice Jewsish boy from Atlanta" at least twice and made it clear he was not comfortable about the situation. In fact I initially thought Clay meant it in a gay way. Still, no matter how he meant it, stupid, stupid, Clay.

The gum chewer in the boardroom should have been fired just for that.

That was no tuxedo Carolyn was wearing.

I too thought, "Fire them all and just crown Randall already."

LahLah

Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:57 am

I do this thing where I mute the tv and try to avoid looking at the title of the segment where Donald gives his lesson of the week. They usually spoil who will lose the task.

Onto the episode, I thought it was so funny DT came into the boardroom and said Whoa Whoa to Carolyn. Ha!

Marshawn with her brown fluffy bell bottoms at Kors' place was a What What moment!

Randal is cool and all, but he needs to keep some travel oil wipes with him. He has some serious shine! By the way Randall, Congratulations.

I don't know if I liked the way Rebecca voiced her disagreement with Randall's idea. She whispered her concern incoherently and just left it at that and basically said that if they lose, then it was Randall's fault and it was his burden to win it for them.

All has stepped it up, but I still dont think she has a winning personality in comparison to Randal.

CheekyCricket

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:03 pm

Randal is the man. If he doesn't win this, I will be shocked. Has anyone called out Rebecca on her total lack of confidence in Randal? [/quote]
I think the problem is a lack of confidence in herself. I assumed that Rebecca would be the PM, or if not Rebecca, then Marshawn. Too bad one of them didn't, because they still could have benefited from Randal's skills of organizing and delivering a presentation, while getting a feather in the cap for the win. Instead, he has another feather in his cap. Not only was he chosen as the team leader, without any apparent competition from the other team members, he immediately took the initiative and delivered a win.

Allowing Randal to lead Excel as soon as he rejoined it was a bad strategic move for both Marshawn and Rebecca, but especially for Rebecca. It won't necessarily damage Brian's standing, since he led (and won) the episode before last, and at least in Marshawn's case, she took the opportunity to visibly demonstrate some of her best skills. Rebecca demonstrated that . . . she could pass out presentation materials.

With Markuses firing, it looks like the first stage of the winnowing-out process has been completed, and now, the remaining candidates need to show their leadership and management skills, since that's what the two finalists will be tested on. Rebecca needs to pick up the pace pronto, or she'll be fading out of the competition soon. Marshawn also, though she's in better standing than Rebecca. Right now, they come across as fine team players, but not as team leaders. They both need to demonstrate some of Randal's initiative and drive.

Adam, on the other hand, pleasantly surprised me, despite the loss.

Adam annoyed, no doubt, but he performed well in the board room...under DT pressure. Trump put the screws to Adam with regard to a topic that should be off limits in a professional setting (IMHO). Adam replied discretely and sincerely, which was the most professional bit of self-protection (and smart dealing) I witnessed all evening. If I had been in Adam's shoes, I probably would have said something to DT that I later would have regretted.[/quote]
He didn't annoy me, actually: I thought he demonstrated potential, although he will need more experience to develop his potential. I was also impressed with his boardroom performance, especially considering his age. He stayed calm and collected, and he articulated his points well. Also, I thought that he coped with Markus diplomatically but firmly, under the circumstances, and as well as I would ever expect from anyone.

I will wait to see how Clay responds to his current situation (or predicament). If he stops, and thinks, and especially thinks about what happened in the boardroom, and he makes adjustments, then I think he may make it through to the interviews. If he doesn't, then he'll be gone soon.

blackwing

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:04 pm

I also cannot believe nobody spelled out one major reason they lost. The majority of the people in the "class" were female. Most women do not like to speak of sex or body parts in crude terms, ie "ass". Some do, most don't. Most women have a very romantic view of sex, and Clay's take on it probably offended them. This is the reason they lost and why Clay should have been right next to Marcus on the back bench of the cab.[/quote]I disagree, because the scores for the two seminars were actually quite close. Something like 6.98 to 7.1? Also, there weren't any comments read from people who were offended. I have to think that if people were offended to the point where it obviously affected the scores, that the editing would have shown that on the comment cards. The only comment read focused on how boring the presentation was.

I have to say that I don't think Adam failed as a project manager- I think his team failed him in pushing him to take on a topic that he was so completely uncomfortable with. And even if they had gone with the topic- they should have agreed as a team that his actual speaking participation would be minimal becasue of that. Sex is one of those topics, like religion, that you just can't force someone to feel comfortable talking about. I really feel they crossed that line.[/quote]I would disagree. I think he failed miserably. As PM, he should have been more forceful in vetoing the topic. "Look, I'm the PM, and I appreciate the ideas, but I have the most at stake here, so I feel like I should have some ultimate say in our choice of topic."

And nobody forced Adam to take such a large role in the presentation.
As the PM, he should have minimalized his speaking time if he felt so uncomfortable. He could have easily set himself up as an emcee or coordinator, so that he's not the one actually discussing the meat of the topic.

He failed to do any of this, which is why I have to agree with Trump. He's weak and soft and a pushover, and he's just not right for the cutthroat world of Trump.

PinkyTuscadero

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:08 pm

I have to say that I don't think Adam failed as a project manager- I think his team failed him in pushing him to take on a topic that he was so completely uncomfortable with.[/quote]

Anybody who allows themselves to be bullied into do something should think twice about ever managing a staff of people. If he's this much of a pushover (on national TV) then he's got to be a total pussy in his real work environemnt.

Mollymorgan

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:08 pm

This task was lost due to Adam's poor management. He wasn't behind the topic, there was absolutely no message assigned to the discussion, there was no structure nor were there any guidelines as to how far was too far. [/quote]

They lost the task because they had no real topic. What the heck were they teaching? Sex in the workplace? How to do it in the closet? what? A class is like an essay. What was their thesis? They didn't have one? If I had to do that topic, I would pick a subject like dating. What to do when you meet someone at work that you like. How to handle the relationship at work. How to stay out of the gossip chain. How to handle a break up with a coworker.

That said, it was the best played boardroom I've seen in a long, long time, from both sides. I don't think Adam was really offended at Clay's Jew comments, he just saw it as an easy way to drum him out quickly (especially since George is apparently Jewish). Then, when he realized that Trump was smelling blood from Markus' direction, he did a complete turnaround, exonerated Clay, and went for the jugular on ol' runnymouth.[/quote]

Totally! I saw that last night. He never mentioned Marcus, but when he saw the attack, and saw Marcus's response which was inane, he totally jumped on that bandwagon. Smart boy.

Why is it, that when one team did great and the other bombed, that the scores were almost identical? What would they have done if all the comments were clearly great/sucked but the scores barely went the other way?[/quote]

I don't get that either! I guess one team was very entertaining and not educational, and one was very educational and not entertaining.

oswaldsgirlfriend

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:12 pm

[Thank you for not telling your fellow posters what "most" women think about sex.]

I think they lost because their presentation had no focus (what exactly were they supposed to be teaching anyway?), because it was boring, and because Adam was scared of the topic. Clay was a bit irreverent, but it's sex they were talking about! I imagine that someone attending the class would expect a smart, fun and kind of naughty presentation, but what they got was awkward and badly planned.

immutabilis

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:14 pm

[Thank you for not explaining "most women" to your fellow posters.]

Slump

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:15 pm

Everyone, grab your cameras and camcorders. We have a Kelly sighting!

That was an interesting task to say the least. I knew Capital Edge were doomed when Adam looked very uncomfortable with the Sex in the Workplace topic. If that was the case, he, as the project manager, should have nixed that topic in the butt and come up with another one. Sometimes, as a leader, you have to follow your instincts, even if it may be unpopular with everyone else. He may be a solid leader one day, but right now I think he's too green for an executive position.

I hope Clay is the next one to get the boot. It's not because of the comments he made during the seminar, but because of the hissy fit he threw after the boardroom. In some ways, I understand why he was upset, but there are better ways to handle the problem rather than his opening the door forcefully and the comment he made to Adam in the elevator.

What a train wreck that was. At times, I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts out loud, but even I cringed at watching Markus trying to communicate in the boardroom. Then came the cabterview; if there was one other time there should be a cab of silence, this should have been it. Hey Markus, if you keep stammering and constantly saying "ya know" in the middle of your phrases, this is a sign that you do not communicate well. Here I am thinking that there would be no one worse than Craig when it comes to communication.

As for the Trump and Adam sex talk, it's one thing to hear about it from your parents, but to hear it from your potential employer? That was all kinds of creepy.

Hamhock96

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:20 pm

Trump's remark about the menu were so funny. A friend of mine turned fifty and decided that he was gay. As he put it, "I used to order from Column A; now I order from Column B." It's a metaphor that flies, I guess.

auntiemame

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:20 pm

Another thing I remembered: Alla's meltdown at missing the Michael Kors shopping spree was hilarious. Especially that Darth Vader-like "Nooooooooo!" she did at the kitchen table. I also noticed her Burberry blanket made another cameo. Ah, Alla. Queen of Bling.

Nutjob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:21 pm

I don't know if I liked the way Rebecca voiced her disagreement with Randall's idea. She whispered her concern incoherently and just left it at that and basically said that if they lose, then it was Randall's fault and it was his burden to win it for them.[/quote]

Rebecca is just as bad about this as Markus and Kristi. She just looks prettier and more composed while doing it. I'm really, really not liking her right now.

I agree that it was Adam's fault they lost, but I think DT likes him the way you might like a pet Papillon. He's cute, energetic, and if you work hard enough with him, you might be able to train him eventually. Markus, on the other hand, is such a waste of time, space, and the money it takes to feed him in the suite that I'm sure DT couldn't wait to fire him.

At first I thought that Clay was just saying Adam was uptight. Then, reading previous posts, they put what Clay said in context with what Adam was saying about paying for a date, then Clay was calling him a tightfisted Jewish boy, not a tightassed Jewish boy. The difference being tightfisted is cheap, and tightassed is uptight. Clay was in the wrong, but is that a shock?[/quote]

I think it is if you consider the stereotype of Jews as being cheap. Either way he may have meant it, Clay's comment was extremely inappropriate and he never should have said it IMO, especially in front of a large group of complete strangers.

OldLadyM

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:22 pm

Abuhdee, abuhdee, abuhdee....that's all folks. Tandemonium
[/quote]

Bwah! That's exactly what I said to Mr. M! Most hilarious cab ride ever.

Okay, who is Adam? When he first came on to volunteer as PM I had no idea who he was. Or, that he was a virgin. Where has he been? Poor Adam. Unnnncomfortable.

CheekyCricket

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:25 pm

He failed to do any of this, which is why I have to agree with Trump. He's weak and soft and a pushover, and he's just not right for the cutthroat world of Trump.[/quote]
But didn't Trump also remark that he thought Adam was "solid," or words to that effect? That's what I recall. He didn't come across as a pushover around Markus, or around the team. I felt like he agreed to go with the "sex at work" theme despite his discomfort, because most of the team felt they could make a lively presentation out of the subject, and I actually liked the fact that he tried to tackle the subject even though he was uncomfortable about it. All in all, not the best decision, for sure, but I don't think the subject matter, or Adam's discomfort with the subject-matter, was the main problem.

The bigger problem is that while Randal and Marshawn clearly had experience with this type of presentation, no one on Capital Edge had comparable experience, so they floundered, both in the planning stage and in delivering actual presentation. No one knew how to organize and put together a presentation. They made mistakes that many newbie instructors make when they put together their first course: thinking that the subject-matter itself will generate a good discussion, thinking that a discussion-format seminar doesn't need to be carefully organized beforehand, thinking that a large roomful of strangers (and it was a good-sized class) will readily jump into a discussion with other strangers. Common errors, and not surprising at all.

peppermintduvet

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:26 pm

I really can't stand Adam, for no particular reason but that he strikes me as just in love with his own whatever, including that mediocre singing. I get the feeling he thinks he flies under the radar but will stun people with his mad talent, which.. no.[/quote]

Adam completely bugs me too. It started with the singing, which was sooo awkward. He just makes me feel squicky for some reason. When he stood up and said "Sex" with that big grin on his face, I wanted to melt into my couch and hide.

sugarbritches

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:30 pm

I understand that part of The Apprentice deal is for Trump to give the kids a taste of their possible future success. "Someday you may live in a penthouse. Someday you may have dinner and caviar on a luxury yacht. Someday you may hob nob with George Steinbrenner and wear tuxedos on a weekly basis." But I wasn't expecting "Someday you may have sex."[/quote]

midnightoil, BRILLIANT!

Re: dufus, er, Markus, man was just dead weight. Had to go sooner or later but honestly, I would have rather it had been Clay. 95% of what came out of his mouth during the presentation was offensive. I understand, presenting makes you nervous but that, was not nerves. I completely agree with the posters that classified it as unprofessional behavior. Like *yoogely* unprofessional. - Could not have been more cringeworthy, really.

I remain hopeful that Rebecca has something to bring to the table. Starting to doubt it though.

Alla, is EVIL.

Hamhock96

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:32 pm

Topic.

Fishfive

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:31 pm

Don't be such babies about the Trump-talking-sex stuff. I thought it was great. I mean, here is this cartoonishly macho/powerful businessman saying that homosexuality is a non-issue in the workplace. The whole "are you a homosexual?" drilling was awkward on a level with certain junior high gym class moments, but at the end of the day, it's a great message for redneck wannabe business execs to hear...

And I loved the menu analogy! Although, of course, he has to characterize himself as a "steak guy" and the gay people are implied pasta-wusses, but I digress.

The whole "sex is no big deal" speech was interesting because he then basically turned the boardroom into a lesson that sex IS important and can be used against you if you're like Adam and are still learning about boy and girl parts. So that was weird, sort of oddly progressive and discriminatory at the same time...

Does "sex has lost me a lot of money" mean he's lost money from divorces, or has he settled sexual harassment suits?

Either way, you have to admire this freakish little man a little for not giving a f-ck and just speaking his mind, especially about such a thorny topic like sex.

Quiddler

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:32 pm

Yes, Randall is a great public speaker. But did anyone else think of the Chris Rock routine when George said "He speaks really well!”[/quote]
The way I took it was that George was impressed (as was I) with the way Randall was able to switch gears and totally change his speaking style to fit the situation. During the tasks, Randall has always handled himself well in front of his fellow apprenti, with the public, in the boardroom, etc. (Hence being singled-out twice now for a team switch) However, that doesn't always translate well when one speaks in front of a large group. People who are perfectly articulate in front of a small gathering can become suddenly awkward when addressing a crowd, whether they have one degree or twenty. (Trust me - I've worked with PhD's who can't find a coherent sentence with a flashlight and a map.)

In addition, Randall (who, up until then had been a "quiet force" (tm Marcella)) suddenly became much more animated in his speaking style, gestures, etc. I remembered thinking "Wow, who is that energetic public-speaker, and what have you done with Randall?!"

Rose Dawn Scott

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:33 pm

Why were the numerical scores so close? I thought Randal's presentation was much more coherent and useful.[/quote]

I was surprised by that as well. I'm thinking it might have been due to the class topics -- the "sex sells!" mentality at work.

By the way, watching the "previously on TA" footage, Alla referred to Clay as an "insecure bitchy woman times 1,000," and while it probably makes no difference, I thought the added adjective was great -- Alla might not object to dealing with "bitchy" women, she may well think of herself that way, but insecure? That's not gonna fly with Mistress Alla!

ITA with everyone about Randal in the dressing room -- whoah, what a bod! Who knew?

While many have commented on how good Rebecca looked in her Kors dress, I thought Marshawn looked absolutely gorgeous in her black Kors dress, even though the pants were funky.

I disagree most strongly that we didn't see Marshawn do anything this task -- she and Randal were both excellent speakers and presenters. And props to Randal for carrying the "boring" task -- they really did take the idea and make it interesting, IMO.

The whole "derrogatory comment" thing I thought was very overblown. Clay did say "shy, tight Jewish boy," not "tight-ass Jew," and I think he was playing off Adam's "nice Jewish boy from Atlanta" comments, but Clay interrupted Adam to point out "Remember, this is the shy, tight Jewish boy, now!" Both Clay and Adam were horrible presenters, I thought.

When Alla and Adam were talking, I think she was trying to steer him toward the inappropriateness of Clay's comments re getting slapped on the ass by a boss, or checking out his co-workers' asses, and away from the "Jewish" stuff. I think she did the same thing in the BR, as Adam mentioned Clay's Jewish comments (of which we only heard one), and Alla jumped in with "And also...."

I thought Trump's BR comments were more offensive than anything any of the wannabe Apprenti ever said. Asking Clay if he was gay -- and making a point of asking him if that meant he wasn't into Alla! -- asking Adam if he was a virgin, and his comment to George: "I figured you would find it offensive" regarding the Jewish remark -- ACK! George's point was that it was unprofessional, not that he and Adam are both Jewish -- sheesh. "That's why there are menus" got a big LOL from us here at home. But still, yuck to the yoooogest power!

Markus Dorkus "I was railroaded from the beginning" -- dayumm, dude, do you even listen to yourself "talk?" or rather, string together lines of words, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing? What!A!Tool! The rambling cabterview was the icing on the cake.

Hi, Kelly! Bye Kelly! Hah!

Clay's "Don't talk to me!" in the elevator, and the way he totally slammed through the door seemed to me like the actions of an "insecure, bitchy woman times 1,000," irrespective of his sexual orientation. Also looks like foreshadowing of some heavy-duty problems between Clay and Adam in the future.

Adam said he didn't believe Clay to be anti-Semetic, just chose his words sloppily, and I agree with Adam on that. I think Clay was just pissed at having been brought into the BR to begin with. His slappable ass was saved for at least another week -- get over it, Clay.

My final four guess is Randal, Marshawn, Alla, and Rebecca (because I think Trump likes Rebecca more than a lot of the other folks, and unless she really puts her cast in it big-time, he'll continue focusing on the qualities he likes in her. I won't speculate as to what those are, hee!

"I have no clue." No, Markus, no you don't. If you see one flying by some day, I'd suggest you grab it!

immutabilis

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:34 pm

Nutjob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:35 pm

Word, Quiddler. I forgot to mention in my earlier post: I <3 Randal. Smart, talented, charming, AND a nice guy? Say it ain't so! I'm just waiting for him to eat a baby or something to spoil his clear dominance of this entire season.

While many have commented on how good Rebecca looked in her Kors dress, I thought Marshawn looked absolutely gorgeous in her black Kors dress.[/quote]

Me too. Marshawn looked simply beautiful and elegant in that dress.

That condescending and judgemental attitude people - like Alla, Trump and Clay - have toward anyone who seems shy and sexually inexperienced is really rude. You know.. Alla's "we may need the paramedics" comment, because she's the knowledgeable and confident Las Vegas "Goddess", the type who takes pride in turning a boy into "a man". In the meantime, I'm sure Adam is quite healthy while Alla has a few STDs. [/quote]

I'm right with you on that one. I felt very, very sorry for Adam during that whole exchange. Not only was it embarrassing, but it was completely inappropriate and hostile. So what if he HASN'T had sex? Big deal! For religious reasons, I didn't either until I got married, and I was in my late 20's! Not only was I not embarrassed about it, but it didn't make me a social or professional reject, either. I built a successful career and had lots and lots of friends. Alla, Clay, and especially DT really need to grow up, IMO.

highlander

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:39 pm

The bigger problem is that while Randal and Marshawn clearly had experience with this type of presentation, no one on Capital Edge had comparable experience, so they floundered, both in the planning stage and in delivering actual presentation. No one knew how to organize and put together a presentation. They made mistakes that many newbie instructors make when they put together their first course: thinking that the subject-matter itself will generate a good discussion, thinking that a discussion-format seminar doesn't need to be carefully organized beforehand, thinking that a large roomful of strangers (and it was a good-sized class) will readily jump into a discussion with other strangers. Common errors, and not surprising at all. [/quote]

ITA. On the extra footage on yahoo, Randall stays up all night while his teammates sleep to organize and perfect his and his teammates' presentation. He even interviews how important it is to be organized beforehand and know what you want to do and say at the actual presentation. He made sure his teammates had a "script" to follow.

oswaldsgirlfriend

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:41 pm

readabook

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:43 pm

Either way, you have to admire this freakish little man a little for not giving a f-ck and just speaking his mind, especially about such a thorny topic like sex.

[/quote]

Was this freakish little man speaking his mind, or playing a role--the "Donald Trump on the Apprentice" role?

Another thing I wonder--is the role he's playing here that smart for his image as a business persona? Martha's using her show to improve her post-slammer image. What are you going to remember about Trump? "Oh yeah, he refered to gays as pasta. But, but, he's a "steak guy!" Don't forget about that steak! Melina's steak, and she's SOME steak, too, don't you forget it!"

Carolyn for Queen! We could do with some royal majesty around these parts.

ender988

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:44 pm

I don't see how anyone could perceive Clay as being anti-semitic. Adam must have said at least 5 times that he was just a nice, conservative jewish boy, and sex talk made him uncomfortable.

It looked to me like Clay had thought up his line about Adam being a "tight Jewish boy" while Adam was speaking about dating. Then, as soon as Adam stopped speaking, he let loose with the line, not realizing that what Adam was talking about (Paying for dinner). I mean, it wasn't really even relevant to what Adam was saying no matter how you look at it. I think he really was just trying to play off of Adam's MANY self-deprecating jewish comments. Adam opened the door, and Clay made a bad joke. If Adam had said he was a nice Catholic boy from Atlanta, Clay would have repeated the exact same line with "Catholic" instead of "Jewish", because that was a fairly obvious (but not really funny) joke to make.

I felt bad for Clay, because he was in a position to be made to look anti-semitic. If I were in his shoes, I would have been screaming at the top of my lungs, and I was so releived when Adam confirmed that he did not feel that Clay was anti-semitic.

indigotea

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:45 pm

Adam was a crappy PM. If he was uncomfortable with the subject, he either should have found a new one, or relegated himself to working on a part of the presentation where he didn't have to look all squicked out every second. Plus, I can't stand that fake-self-deprecating humor, the kind that turns into accusations of bigotry as soon as someone else joins in. If you don't want to hear it repeated back to you, don't say it.

Clay, I think, failed because he was carrying the team on a rambling, pointless topic...the kind of thing that ends up being a string of barely-related personal anecdotes. It was stupid, but not especially inappropriate. They were giving a presentation on sex in Manhattan -- it wasn't teaching sex ed to nine-year-old home-schooled Girl Scouts. For his teammates to suggest that talking about gay sexual attraction was making people squirm was just insulting to everyone's intelligence. This was not the tasteless cucumber soap commercial, that might reach into deeply conservative American homes and shock because of the context.

oswaldsgirlfriend

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:48 pm

Exactly, ender988. Adam went on and on about being a tight Jewish boy and the minute somebody parrotted it back to him, it somehow became offensive (the sex part and the religion part). Adam just seems like a big baby.

(Oops, Indigotea beat me to it!)

realityremote

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:49 pm

Call Human Resources and book a session on "Things to say in a job interview that can get your ass sued" immediately. Granted this is a reality show (in fact, that's what I thought one of the groups should have taught: "How to get cast on a reality tv show." It would have been great!) this is also supposed to be a 52-week job interview. And two questions that are absolutely taboo in ANY interview (exception being a brothel) are 1.) are you gay and 2.) are you a virgin?

I'd be dialing my lawyers, post haste, if I didn't get hired.

Nutjob

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:55 pm

I agree that it was probably super-awkward for Adam to be teased about being prudish and/or a virgin, but he opened himself up to it. Adam relied on his "I'm a nice Jewish boy from Atlanta and I don't know anything about this sex stuff" shtick --and heavily-- which made it fair game.[/quote]

I agree that he relied on it during the presentation to, IMO, endear himself to the audience. I don't, however, agree that this opened him up to being teased about it in the BR or anywhere else. I would also still be uncomfortable about talking about sex in front of a large group of people... on national television, no less... but that doesn't mean I don't have it or am a prude about it in the privacy of my own home. I still think it was completely inappropriate and, more to the point, completely tacky and rude, of them to tease him the way they did.

immutabilis

Nov 4, 2005 @ 12:56 pm

I'd be dialing my lawyers, post haste, if I didn't get hired. [/quote]

Well, they say it's an "interview", but it's really an entertainment show masquerading as an "interview". I'm pretty sure they've signed so many agreements and contracts, they would have no chance to sue.

Booklord

Nov 4, 2005 @ 1:02 pm

The whole "derrogatory comment" thing I thought was very overblown. Clay did say "shy, tight Jewish boy," not "tight-ass Jew," and I think he was playing off Adam's "nice Jewish boy from Atlanta" comments, but Clay interrupted Adam to point out "Remember, this is the shy, tight Jewish boy, now!" Both Clay and Adam were horrible presenters, I thought.[/quote]

It was inappropriate either way. I feel sorry for homosexuals in general after that performance. So many stereotypes reinforced.....

From what I could see George and Caroyln were begging Markus to say something intelligible so they could fire Clay. No such luck though. Trump must have used his multi-firing mojo all up last ep.

Clay is now an official dead apprentice walking. There is no coming back from that sort of performance.

It's rumored that an apprentice will leave the show soon. Many suspected that rebecca would reinjure her leg and be forced to leave. But given Clay's hissy fit I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was him.

Markus may be the most delusional apprentice ever. And after 4 seasons that is truly, truly saying something. He's been dead apprentice walking since the phone conversation with the Trumpo in the first ep. ( where he was a winning project manager to boot! )

Adam may well be a virgin due to religious reasons. ( Some people truly are serious about waiting til they are married. ) That was some of the worst interview questions I've ever heard. But he does deserve a fair amount the blame for being talked into such an unworkable topic. Once started I thought he did the best he could given his utter lack of experience and extreme discomfort.

Randall. He did fantastic. So good in fact that I think he has done this kind of thing in the past. He seemed like Sandy in the wedding gown task. Completely in his element.

toasterwaffle

Nov 4, 2005 @ 1:04 pm

Truly this was my favorite episode. I doubt they will be able to top it, especially because of all those squickalicious moments. Adam and sex. Clay and his ass obsession. Markus just generally all up and down the street and into the taxi cab. God. Squick heaven.

And now I miss Markus even though I couldn't wait for him to go. Without even realizing it I had developed such tender feelings towards his royal loserness. I hope he's vacationing restfully in the Boxxe region of France. And fly fishing. And getting his dumb-ass highlights retouched.

And finally they got a real reward!!! The shopping trip was awesome.

It's nice to see the best team actually win. For once. Where did the women's team go wrong? It's a mystery I'll never really understand. *sigh.*

And I, for one, was touched by Adam's sex discomfort. At least it came off as genuine, as opposed to Toral's milkshake phobia.

dangergirljones

Nov 4, 2005 @ 1:05 pm

Call Human Resources and book a session on "Things to say in a job interview that can get your ass sued" immediately. [/quote]

This was my first thought when Trump fired Stacey J for being "crazy". The fact is that these people most likley signed iron tight contracts giving up their rights under the employment laws that would have made Trumps questions illegal.

In fact, calling it an job interview to begin with is completely misleading, as it doesn't need to adhire to any equal opportunity laws or others.

What I thought was funny with the Clay situation was that Trump seemed to honestly not know - even a billionaire can't buy Gaydar

Fishfive

Nov 4, 2005 @ 1:14 pm

readabook, yeah, he's definitely playing a part, but he's ALWAYS playing it, not just for this show. He's like a walking cartoon, but he obviously loves being that cartoon, which is endearing in a weird way. The Donald is a conundrum...

But I think those ARE his views on sex, or "The Donald's" views on sex. I don't think he tidied up any of his opinions. He was fairly blunt.

Hamhock96

Nov 4, 2005 @ 1:14 pm

Great post, Fishfive. Channelled all my thoughts so coherently.

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