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Full Version: 4-7: "Back to School" 2005.11.03
TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery
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zoici

Is it at all ironic that the person who takes so long to say anything suggested Time Management?
[/quote]

Originally he was going to suggest,

Communication--The Fine Art of Making Sense in Places Other Than Just Your Own Head.
or
How to Elicit Responses Other Than, "Huh?" "WT*?" and "Say Whaaa?"

Serious?....no not at all
Jacob
If you've weighed in on the Clay/Adam thing one way or the other, leave it alone. Your comment is in the thread for anyone to see, and if they disagree, it's not because they need to be told again.

If you argue the same point more than once in response to a dissenting opinion, you will be banned as a troll.
Nascar
We saw a couple of things not seen in the past last night - Robin out from behind the desk and Kelly being let out of his windowless office for his one hour of daily exercise. I think someone has to step up this week and lead their team to victory or Randall is going to have this wrapped up. Rebecca, Alla or Marshawn need to impress Trump quickly.
AuntieKaren

Communication--The Fine Art of Making Sense in Places Other Than Just Your Own Head.[/quote]
I love it!

Shifting the topic a bit, I have to ask--why did Adam and Clay seem to do most of the presenting? Adam blushes when the word sex is mentioned, and Clay, he seems to be able to make inappropriate comments when talking about completely unoffensive topics. I can't think of two TA candidates less qualified to talk to the public about sex in the office. Why wasn't Alla speaking? She's comfortable talking about sex. And Felishia, she seems to be a decent presenter, too. Why Adam and Clay, and not Alla and Felisha?
catrina
Sort of a funny coincidence that the one episode about sex and sexuality has Carolyn showing some breasts?

Trump was funnee trying to understand what homosexuality means.

Trump: So you're gay, so you don't find Felisha or Alla attractrive?

Clay: No Mr. Trump, that's what being gay means.

Trump: So women's breasts have no interest for you?

Clay: No. Mr. Trump, that's what being gay means.

Trump: So a beautiful woman dancing in front of you naked, that wouldn't get you excited?

Clay: No Mr. Trump, THAT'S WHAT BEING GAY MEANS.

Trump: Homosexuality...wow...I just don't understand it.


Was it clear to anyone else that Trump was someone uncomfortable with the idea of a gay employee working so closely with him? Not out of gay panic...just that the idea of a man not interested in women was so alien to him as to be disturbing?

I think Randal is now a lock for a win. I think the fact that he IS a Rhoades scholar is going to help him this time because I think there was a lot of backlash over Kevin's firing last season for being "too educated."
krawz5
Ok. So Trump keeps reminding the "contestestants" are on a "job interview." An 8 week long "JOB INTERVIEW." Isn't it ILLEGAL to ask questions such as "Are you gay? Are you an antisemite?" on a JOB INTERVIEW???

I think so. Very classless of Trump and wrong to pointblank ask those questions. And, illegal.
pillow

Funnily enough, the closed captioning on my TV captioned the infamous Clay line as "shy-ass Jewish boy". [/quote]

I was watching the show this morning, and my closed captioning showed, "shy-type Jewish boy."

I'm so very glad Markus is gone.
llsquared

That was some forceful door opening by Clay at the end there. I think he was truly upset that he was “outed” in the boardroom.[/quote] funnymoney, I took that (which I happened to think was the most awesome moment of the entire episode.) As Clay being pissed at Adam. I heard Clay tell Adam in the elevator "don't talk to me"-and I just assumed that Clay was pissed because he though that his "apology" (Adam admitted in the boardroom that Clay apologized afterward) wasn't enough to keep him out of the boardroom.

Marcus's exit was priceless. Trump just gets finished telling him he's fired because he talks too much, and the jackass just keeps going. Thank you Marcus for ensuring that my image of you as a complete tool will never be marred.

And Caroline? I love when you call people on thier shit, but calling out Marcus was probably the sweetest moment of your televsion career.

And what was up with Alla in the boardroom? Could she have made her agenda against Clay any more obvious as she was leading Adam's answers to Trump's questions?


Ok. So Trump keeps reminding the "contestestants" are on a "job interview." An 8 week long "JOB INTERVIEW." Isn't it ILLEGAL to ask questions such as "Are you gay? Are you an antisemite?" on a JOB INTERVIEW???

I think so. Very classless of Trump and wrong to pointblank ask those questions. And, illegal. [/quote] WORD.
Masem
I know that in a true job interview, you cannot be asked about things like married status, sexual preferrence, etc. However, you as the interviewee, can bring these up if you want and which point becomes free game, though they should not influence how the hiring group will select it's candidate.

The key, however, is that I think Clay was already pointed out as being gay not only in this task (in front of Carolyn or George during the presentation), but was mentioned in several tasks back as well, even though it didn't play a big role. Basically, again, Clay brought it up himself during the interview, even though not in front of Trump, so that confidentiality is gone.

That said, I think once Trump did ask that question, even if it wasn't included in the final BR edits we see, he was suddenly in a bad position because he could not fire Clay without a very bad spectre of lawsuit, or even more so, appearing like a bigot, even though "being gay" was certain not the reason that Clay was in that BR in the first place or why he would have been fired. Which is why I think that was even added to the televised version, including the weird "menu" comment - more to say that Trump doesn't care about your sexual preferrence as long as you get the job done, just in case people saw the attack on Clay by Trump as being taken as a homophobic reaction.

Thankfully, Markus was absolutely the right choice tonight; I think he was fairly nailed for being a disruptive member on the team (not just here but in times past), and while the rest of the team didn't really have a good presentation to work from, I think that having to tend to Markus kept them for really nailing it. I still feel that a PM needs the ability to effectively "fire" a team member on the spot; marginallizing people as they've done with Marcus in the past to minimize their disruption does only that - the disruption still exists and the PM needs to invest some time to handle that element to keep the negative attitude away from the rest of the team. If this PM firing were to be used, and the team still lost, the PM would need to be well justified as to why he fired that person; assuming the reasoning was good, that PM-fired person would still be the one sent home, otherwise, the PM would be on the line. Particularly useful in the mid-game here, where teams are struggling to do all the work on the task and having a lame or missing member can put on more pressure though result in a better product.
natashapierre

So, is Adam a virgin or a prude? [/quote]

Well, a carefully raised gentleman would say what he said, wouldn't he? Suppose he's had only one girlfriend, then, if he answered, no matter what he answered, he'd be outing her on national television. ... Not cool in all circles.


And, kill me, but I'm warming up to Alla. I'm finally beginning to believe that she is a legitimate business person. She is tough, hard-headed, focused, and can express herself well. Yet she handles others pretty well. I thought her attempted handling of Markus tonight was good, and even better than Adam's.
[/quote]

I agree. I also think it says something about Alla that she was the one seen consulting with Adam about his board-room choices and so on. If she were indeed some kind of gun-moll stripper sleazebag, I don't think they would have hit it off as well as they appeared to have in that conversation.


Adam claimed he said 'Jew', which I never heard him say. Adam and Alla said he made several comments about 'Jews', when we only heard one. The whole point seemed to be that Clay should go because he hated Jewish people. Then when Adam realized the wheels were falling off, suddenly he said Clay was not anti-Semetic. [/quote]

I don't know. I'm not so sure they ever thought he actually *was* anti-Semitic. After all, they know him and they know that he's always spouting off some ill-advised inflammatory-sounding comment or other without necessarily meaning any of it-- he's a five-year-old, as Alla put it last week.

I think they just meant that the audience/class -- who didn't know Clay and had no way of knowing whether to take him seriously or not or to see him as emblematic of the views of the rest of the group and so on -- was very likely to contain some members who would be offended by what he said. I doubt that Alla would throw him out for having a prejudice, anyway. I think she'd throw him out because he impeded their winning. And he well might have, because a room full of 50 people you don't know who are going to judge you with ratings on a card later is not the place to be letting it all hang out, even if your topic is "sex at work."
quaintirene
The team picked a topic that the project manager was clearly uncomfortable with. They didn't have any kind of a script. And then Clay stuck his foot in his mouth and just left it there for all to see. One question no one who seriously aspires to a top job with a top corporation wants to be asked is 'are you anti-semitic?' Or 'anti-black' or 'anti-gay' or anti-anything, for that matter. A real corporate weasel would never put him/herself in any kind of position where that question might come up. Any suggestion of such a thing would completely poison someone's chances of making it up the ladder. Clay has just proven to Trump and the watching audience that he opens his mouth without putting his brain in gear and says stupid, possibly offensive things. I cannot see any way that he could win now. I suspect he knows it, too. Which is why he was so pissy on the way out of the boardroom.

And, yes, as a Jew I was pissed-off at what Clay said. I realize he didn't mean it as offensively as it sounded to me, but I was peeved anyway. By my count there are two and possibly three Jews left in the game. I'll be interested to see how they treat Clay during the (probably very short) time he has left.
bahamarita
OH, Markass, the word you were looking for in the cab was 'succinct'. And, honey? You ain't.

I felt bad for Adam trying to control Markass. It's like trying to hold back the ocean. Points for trying, though.

God, what a bitchy little queen Clay is. "Don't talk to me." Whatever, dude. Your time is just about up.

Adam...how cute is he? Uncomfortable talking about sex. That's kind of refreshing in this world where any ol' stranger on the bus will go on and on about the last time they got some.

The Donald. OH, GOD, JUST SHUT UP with all the sex talk and how much you've had and how much it's cost you because EEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWW. And leave Adam alone about it! Like anyone would hold up Donald Trump as some guiding light of sexual mores. What a dillhole.

I could not believe that TD just went on and on and on about his sex and Clay's sex and how when Adam finally gets around to doing it, boy is he going to like it. Why is TD not in constant litigation for sexual harrassment?
Rosalyn578

That was some forceful door opening by Clay at the end there. I think he was truly upset that he was “outed” in the boardroom.[/quote]

The first thing he said when he got on the show was that he was gay and he planned to use it to get ahead. He also brought it up as part of performing this task. It doesn't follow that he would be angry about being "outed" unless he's a hypocrite. I think he was angry either because he was targeted as the one to be fired or because he was accused of possibly being anti-Semitic.

As for Trump, while the conversation was squicky, he didn't necessarily do anything wrong. He didn't actually bring up the fact that Clay is gay or may be an anti-Semite. The contestants brought all of that up. He only asked for clarification purposes.
Kris223

OH, Markass, the word you were looking for in the cab was 'succinct'. And, honey? You ain't.[/quote]
Yeah, I had to mute his cab ride - the boardroom scene was bad enough.
Flashlight
Personally I would have fired everyone after those two "learning annex" classes. Both "classes" were 100 percent worthless waste-of-time bs.

I've taken my share of university business classes (undergrad and grad level) and participated in and watched plenty of "team presentations." While I agree it was useful to learn how to work together as a group and to get experience presenting, nobody in their right mind (besides students who are required to be there) would waste their time listening to that junk.

It puzzles me why neither group didn't just teach stuff they actually know.

Also there's a difference between discussing sex (or anything personal) with your friends and discussing sex with a bunch of idiots you don't know that well (which personally I think is just creepy). I couldn't believe Trump thought the sex-work whatever thing was such a good idea. I wonder if it had anything to do with this being sweeps week? (I wondered the same thing earlier watching the exotic-dancer episode of Smallville.)
Baby Fish Mouth
The way I heard Clay's comment was, "shy, quiet Jewish boy." If that was what he said, then Adam overreacted. Especially given the fact that he described himself that way at the beginning of the presentation. But maybe I heard it wrong.

That was the most bizarrely hilarious boardroom ever. It was as if Trump had never seen a gay man or been introduced to the concept of homosexuality before. The guy really does live on a different planet.
meredithand

For God’s sack, I really think Adam took Clay’s Jewish comment completely wrong. I didn’t hear what Adam heard. I think Clay was just trying to make a play off of Adam’s whole “nice Jewish boy from Atlanta” (or wherever it was).

I agree. When Adam interviewed that Clay implied he was cheap, I thought, nooooo, I don't think that's what Clay was implying! Methinks he was implying that Adam was a virgin, at least in one particular way. [/quote]



No, if you go back and listen to Adam's comments right before that, he talks about being unsure to take someone to dinner: he'd be shy, what would they talk about, and would he want to spend the money? And THEN Clay comes in with his P.C. comment of the year.

I'd agree that Clay was just commenting on Adam's conservative personality/experience if it wasn't immediately following Adam's joke about wasting money on a bad date.
BlakeSpeare
The editors have found a way to make the narrowest of victories look like a landslide - have the viceroys read off carefully selected comments from the audience. In this episode, the margin of victory was razor-thin, but with only positive comments being read aloud for Excel, and only negative ones being read for Capital Edge, everyone came way thinking that Excel's presentation must have been a huge success, and Capital Edge's must have been a disaster.

I'm guessing that there were plenty of missteps in Excel's presentation, and plenty of good points made during Capital Edge's presentation, but of course we weren't shown them.

Edited because I've already weighed in on the "Jewish boy" debate.
natashapierre

It puzzles me why neither group didn't just teach stuff they actually know[/quote]

Me, too. And while it's not fair, I'm sure, it makes me wonder whether any of them actually know anything. ... They're very non-reflective, at best, since it surely should have at least occurred to them that they've learned things that they could have shared, yet both groups seemed to be completely blank on the question of what they might be able to teach and seemed to think that they had to invent something. What about all those degrees that Randall has, for example?
geoffrois
Here's my take on Clay's inappropriateness/why they lost the task:

(First, my baseline: Clay's actual words, as I heard them, were "but remember, he's the tight little Jewish boy." In context of Adam mentioning that one of his major considerations when asking someone out for a dinner date was how much it would cost, I'm assuming Clay meant "tight" as "cheap," not as "uptight.")

Also, my frame of reference is as a gay Jewish Texan...so take that as you will.

Clay's comment was a slur. However, he was playing into a set-up that Adam used to open the class. Adam started out saying he was uncomfortable with sex as a topic because he was a "little Jewish boy from Atlanta." He then added to this by declaring that he was, in fact, a cheap Jew. Clay was joining in on the fun in a boundaryless situation. His comments were inappropriate. They offended Adam personally, and constituted a (joking) slur. They were not, however, bigoted and anti-semitic. It was a case of jumping in on a friend's self-deprecating jokes, not realizing that it would be offensive coming from someone else. It could very well have offended enough people in the audience to lose them the task, but it wasn't a hanging offense, given the general rambling unprofessional nature of the lecture they were given.

Here's my conjecture as to Clay's hissy-fit at the end: he wasn't so much angry at being "outed," as he was already as out as one can be without the pride rings, but instead angry that Adam, Alla, and Markus, of all people, tried to pin the loss onto his bringing up homosexuality in a class titled "Sex in the Workplace." From what we were given, Clay didn't talk about gayness as a singular issue, but instead talked about his own experiences (which seemed to be the rule of the class) without playing the pronoun game. If Trump had talked about noticing women's breasts, or either of the women on the team had talked about noticing men's asses, they would have felt it entirely appropriate - but because Clay was a man talking about men, all of a sudden it's completely out of line? That's a glaring double-standard, and prevalent or not, it doesn't stand up to rational scrutiny. I think, had Adam stuck to Clay's singular "tight little Jewish boy" comment, actually quoting him correctly, Clay would have no reason to be upset. As it is, someone who had just made a big deal about being offended then tried to pin the loss on someone else's minority status. So not cool.

Personally, I think the task was lost because they had no clear lesson plan and boundaries. Adam's intro was pretty awful. "I'm uncomfortable talking about this, because I have no experience with it - but I'm going to talk about it anyway because it's...um...important?" Alla and Felisha seemed to have nothing to say other than "Have sex at the workplace - but keep it classy!" Clay was the only one who directly discussed what should have been the centerpiece of their class - sexual harrassment and the fine line that is drawn between slightly inappropriate flirtation and out-and-out illegal behavior. Unfortunately, he ventured into TMI and offensive-land big-time. Because he is a bitch - a label he probably wears proudly when dishing over overpriced drinks at JR's.
cristobal
You know, I'm kind of sad that Markus is gone. Not that he deserved to stay or anything, but because he does provide entertaining WTF moments (DRINK!!)whenever he speaks. And man, talk about a bad loser. Jeez.

On the whole Adam/Clay Jewish thing: I really do think that Clay was playing off of Adam's whole nice jewish boy from atlanta thing. And for some reason I thought he refered to Adam as a tight-assed Jewish boy, which is considerably different from a tight Jewish boy. Tight-assed = uptight. Tight = Cheap. Still, Clay was an asshole. He was crude and inappropriate at the task. Really, Alla should have done the speaking. I have a feeling that if anyone understands sex in the workplace, it's her. And I say this as someone who loves here.

Randall - I love you more and more. Great public speaker. Found a totally on point topic that worked out extremely well. Rebecca, please remember this next time you're so sure "we're so screwed."

DT talking about sex icked me out enormously. Unfortunately it caused me to visualize and just... ewwwww. I mean, really, eeewwwwwww. I need some sort of brain bleach to make it go away.

I don't believe that Clay was upset at being "outed" in the board room. He's been absolutely upfront from the very beginning about his sexuality. I just think he was upset because people were telling him that he sucked.

Carolyn - your hair looked so good at the beginning of the ep and before your evening out. Please have the same person do your hair from now on for the show. You're an attractive woman, but your hair generally looks like a bunch of fluffy white cotton candy.
Quiddler

It was hilarious when they asked him "why did your team lose"? and he responded "are you asking me why my team lost"?[/quote]Even better was Carolyn's exasperated "Yes", complete with eye roll. Classic.

Of course, you have to have the weakest gaydar ever to have not picked up on that fact.... [/quote] Would those be the gaydars that Jenthura was trying to sell last week? <heh>

On tonight's very special episode of The Apprentice, The Donald teaches young Adam about the joyous wonders of sexual relationships.[/quote] BWAH! and ... ewww.




I think they should have done a seminar on avoiding corporate-speak. Then they could have utilized their assets and executed their results. [/quote]
And also maximized their potential, thought outside the box, and stepped up to the plate.[/quote]
. . all while adding value to the task.[/quote]
…thereby streamlining their processes, helping to create a new paradigm which will: focus their energies, create a win-win situation, expand their customer base .... (aiiii! somebody stop me!)

"I think he takes himself out of the task, waits for it to fail, so that he can come back at the end and say 'I told you so.'" So much word, Carolyn! Damn, but she was on fire tonight!

Loved the fact that it took them 8 hours to realize that the Fatal Four were booted. (uh, guys? Trump showed up wearing a tux because he had an event to go to. 2 hours, TOPS.

Loved Adam's comment about how Markus "throws a bunch of random words together and calls it a sentence." <snerk> Also loved how he finally came alive in the boardroom, and called Carolyn "Miss Kepcher." Nice touch, big guy.

Dear Clay - please stop living down to the stereotype. Sincerely, Q.

Dear Markus: "If you really mean it..." The hell!? Go home, sweetie. Just ... go. home.

And...was that Erin carrying Rebecca's bags out of the clothing store? Looked like her for a quick second....
musichic2000
...
Miss Alli
Y'all, to add to what your mod already told you, we are well beyond anyone being able to declare what the "actual" answer is as to whether "cheap" or "uptight" was meant by "tight." There are varying opinions. Nobody is going to be the person to finally declare that it is "clearly" or "obviously" one way or the other.

And please, I beg you -- unless you're running the tape, don't tell people what the "actual words" were. We're going in circles partly because the words are being misremembered and misquoted. "But remember, he's the shy, tight Jewish boy." That's the comment. You could hear it as "shy-type," I suppose, but the direct quotes listed here are accurate according to my recording. We've got enough going on here that's not easily resolved without disputes over wording that are easily resolved by referring to the episode.
eyechart
There's been enough discussed about Adam/Clay so I'm not going to say more about that. I will say that, being gay myself, I want to root for Clay but he's making it difficult. Mind you, we only saw the worst of him as he spoke, but...wow, I cringed.

Markus, I'm sure, is still in that cab fnur-fnurring to the driver, who is looking for a bridge to drive off of.

Does Michael Kors have a boy's department for Brian? Hee.
TraceyBee
Heh. When we were shown the reward bit, I turned to MrBee and said, "I fully expect to see many references to shirtless!Randal on the boards tomorrow."

Marshawn and Rebecca looked awesome in their Michael Kors outfits, and Randal was looking mighty fine in that suit, too.

I haven't laughed so hard at a firing and subsequent cabterview since, well, since last week, actually. Markus's incoherenterview was even funnier than the Cab o' Silence. I think perhaps orbiting satellites were able to detect the combined yelling of Apprentice watchers at various points during the show, too - we were all yelling, "God, Markus, SHUT! UP!"

Good thing that was so funny, because the boardroom itself was pretty squicky. I really, really don't need to see Trumpy talking about sex, although I've heard and read elsewhere that he does it a lot. Ick.

The beginning of the show was funny, too, with everyone waiting and waiting. And waiting. And waiting.... "Guys, it's midnight! Holy shit!"
readabook
Okay, okay, I know this is "reality" tv and all, but this show has totally gone off the express rails to bizarro town now.

I've never understood how washing dogs in parks, redecorating roach motels and hawking pretzels at sporting goods stores was a direct indication of your ability to be a corporate executive (does your CEO or manager directly sell, wash, or design anything?), and Trump is obviously portrayed by the show to be doing the Trump business things that reality tv THINKS that WE THINK he does, but... you cannot ask if a potential employee is a virgin. I'm pretty sure that's illegal in all our states and even a few of our territories. WTF? How is this show supposed to even resemble a second, inbred cousin to the real business world after the Hair Mogul's performance? Jeez!

To say nothing of the "Slapping Ass in Your Workplace. Wouldn't That Be Great?" seminar. Now THERE'S an idea you'd want any protege of yours to percolate in their Trump-weasel brain. Would you not fire anybody who even had anything to DO with that? Who was even breathing the same air with people who came up with the idea? This ain't reality, man. It's something else. Note that I'm not saying what.
hengist
In much of the country it isn't illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. And even in those places where it is (and I believe that it is in the State of New York) it isn't illegal to ask the question, it's illegal to act on the answer. One generally doesn't want to ask the question because there's not a good employment reason to know the answer, and it creates a presumption of discrimination. But it's not illegal to ask, per se.

And it wasn't as if these were standard questions on an employment application. Both topics came up in the course of the conversation. And Clay, in particular, can't really complain, since he had already outed himself to: a) his team, b) an entire roomful of strangers, and c) one of Trump's deputies, who was sitting in the audience. And Adam might as well have outed himself as a virgin - there were big gaps between the lines to read things into.

Besides, I don't think Trump cares if Clay is gay or not. And I think he'd like to hire a male virgin, because he seems like the type who'd enjoy figuring out how to get the guy laid. So no discrimination there.

A lot of Clay's comments were squicky, and it doesn't reflect well on his ability to understand his context. But I don't think he wasn't being anti-Semetic, he seemed to be inappropriately riffing off of Adam's own self-characterization as an uptight Jewish kid. Still not good. I got the feeling that Clay was really ticked at the end because of the anti-Semetic accusation.

Could Markus have babbled any more incoherently? He may still be brilliant, but he really needs to work alone. He's the only one who can understand himself.

It seems that we've finally managed to get rid of the last grossly incompentent applicant. The rest of this season will be a little tougher to watch. Clay, Felisha and Adam seem to be lower-echelon than the others, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them go first. Randal is, of course, a lock for final four.

I would have liked to go to Excel's presentation.
DeepInTheHeart




I think they should have done a seminar on avoiding corporate-speak. Then they could have utilized their assets and executed their results.[/quote]And also maximized their potential, thought outside the box, and stepped up to the plate.[/quote]. . all while adding value to the task.[/quote]…thereby streamlining their processes, helping to create a new paradigm which will: focus their energies, create a win-win situation, expand their customer base .... (aiiii! somebody stop me!)[/quote]Will do, soon as I identify a proactive way to do so.
radiostar
I think the thing is that whether Clay's remark was inappropriate or not (I think it was, but that's not the point), it was poorly timed and indicative of the overall messiness of their presentation, which seemed to be mainly the fault of Clay. They were giving a class, not running a stand-up routine, and when one 'lecturer' is talking, the other one shouldn't be inserting smart ass comments. It seemed like Clay was unable to shut up and stop making the class all about him, with his stories and interjections, and whether or not he offended people, I think that that took their score down as well because it seemed unprofessional.

I felt bad for Adam, who was clearly terribly uncomfortable during the whole thing. I think that he did try to say that he didn't think that would be a good topic, but he was shouted down and lacked the conviction to say "I'm the PM, and I say we're not doing a presentation about sex. Come up with something else." so it was kind of his own fault. It kind of reminds me of last year making the NYPD commercials, where Elizabeth wobbled and went along with the 'sexy' commercial with the violence and the terror, while Andy said "No, we're doing it my way, and if it's wrong I'll take the fall for it."
quaintirene
Having rewatched the tape, I am going to step in on behalf of my favourite, Markus (just kidding). I can't stand him and I'm glad he's gone, but he was justified in repeating the question about 'why the team went wrong' and asking if that was the question on the table. Because just beforehand he had been asked another question which he bumbled, and George stepped in and asked him if he ever answered a question properly and said he was still waiting to hear the answer to the earlier question, which was why the team failed. So Markus wasn't sure which question to answer.

Edited to say that DeepInTheHeart I think it's time you stepped up to the plate.
GoddessMelissa
I would've fired Adam last night, because that presentation was crap--he sucked as a leader. They had a million topics to choose from, so there is no excuse for him. It's not enough to mention sex and think you're gonna get win because of the word.

You had Clay getting up there talking about getting his ass slapped seemingly out of nowhere, because there was no agenda. What exactly was the context there? Isn't it the project managers job to make sure there was context to the event, so these things don't happen?

Carolyn-buy a bra.
IfImust
Well...I can't come up with any reason that Markus should have been spared but I think the failure of this particular task lies with Adam. Sex in the Workplace could have been a good topic. They could have discussed sexual harassment, how to handle workplace crushes (I've seen this turn highly competent women into blithering idiots), a break-up, and sexual discrimination (including discrimination based on sexual orientation).

If the presentation had been more structured then I doubt that Clay would have made the comments he did. I do not think that the attendees were even slightly offended by Clay's gayness but rather his use of the word ass and presentation style. If he had actually had a topic, I think he would have done well. Especially if that topic was discrimination against homosexuals in the workplace - he never would have went into his "sassy gay guy routine".

Adam could have talked sexual harassment since obviously his momma didn't raise him that way and being a nice Jewish boy from Atlanta he should know how to treat the ladies with respect.

The PM (Adam) should have played to each team members strengths, knowledge, and passions and it would have been an interesting maybe even eye opening class - I think he failed miserably.
comfortablynumb
Sex in the Workplace was a craptacular idea. Between Adam's discomfort, Clay's ridiculous comments and Markus's fumbling with a yo-yo (WTF?) during the presentation, there was no need to watch the outcome. I was surprised they didn't score lower than 6.9. I wonder what we didn't see.

Adam is a virgin - so what??? Trump was a little obsessed with Adam and Clay's sexuality last night. Clay's gay. Yeah, so what? The whole menu metaphor cracked me up. "Trust me Adam.. sex is great." Ew!! That brought about mental images of the Trump I just didn't need.

Randal is the man. If he doesn't win this, I will be shocked. Has anyone called out Rebecca on her total lack of confidence in Randal?
kacked
I don't think it's fair that a person get upset when someone else says something true about them.

Clay was upset that Adam accused him of being an Anti-Semite, which I don't think he is. I'd be upset too. Had Adam accused Clay of being whiny, bitchy or just unpleasant to work with, Clay would have had no right to be upset.
I'm guessing Adam has been called a Jew in a derogatory way before and that this was just an over reaction due to past experience.

Donald should say or ask whatever he wants in the boardroom. There has been no consistency at all with what he expects from candidates from episode to episode or what he expects from candidates and he behaves. I hope no one watching this show is looking for a model professional behavior or for advice about getting along with coworkers because you would be absolutely screwed. Donald is a ridiculous old dinosaur and that's part of the enjoyment of the show.
Empress1

Yes, Randall is a great public speaker. But did anyone else think of the Chris Rock routine when George said "He speaks really well!”[/quote]
Yep. I immediately thought, “He’s an educated man, what is he supposed to sound like?” I know George was totally well-meaning – I’ve heard that comment myself, and I always take it as such. But the routine popped into my head nonetheless.


As for Adam - wow. A thirtysomething virgin?[/quote]
First of all, he’s THIRTYSOMETHING? He looks about fifteen. Second, whether or not he’s a virgin is nobody’s business but his; I can’t believe Trump asked him that. There’s no way I’d continue an interview (and yes, I get that this is a game show, but still) with a prospective employer who asked about my sex life. If he is a virgin, so what? That has nothing to do with his ability to do the job. I like Adam. He’s polite, and manners go a long way with me. I love that he called Carolyn Ms. Kepcher and punctuated his phrases with “sir.” I also agree with this:
That he then went to bat for Clay as a person (saying he didn't think Clay was anti-semitic) while also saying that he think Clay hurt their score shows incredible maturity.[/quote]
I don’t think Clay is anti-Semitic, either, but I also don’t think his comment was appropriate. I understood why Adam was offended, and aside from that, the comment just wasn’t okay to use in a professional setting. Not unlike talking about spanking, or whatever Clay was doing. Jesus.

Randal is totally going to win. He has two wins in his favor, and everyone, including Trump and the Viceroys, loves him. Marshawn is GORGEOUS – she was stunning in that black dress. I was jealous of this reward – I love Michael Kors, and can’t come close to affording his clothes.

Markus: boy crazy. With the rambling and the talking back to Trump and the rambling again, some more. I couldn’t believe he was playing with a yoyo during the task. He’s such a dink.
blackwing
I thought what Adam and Alla did to Clay was terrible. They tried to make the entire reason why they lost into a "Clay said something about cheap Jews" thing. It was not the reason why they lost. The reason why they lost was because the topic sucked. Adam, don't talk about something about which you seem clearly uncomfortable.

I agree that the presentation also lacked structure and that it could have been done better. Adam just seemed so incoherent. What was the point behind him saying something like "if I see someone I like and I don't want to spend a lot of money on dinner".

It was Adam's job as Project Manager to guide the plan, and the fact that he was so shocked by some of the things Clay was saying seems to indicate that they didn't outline the presentation at all. It was simply "whoever wants to speak about whatever feel free to do so".

I thought Randal and Marshawn did a great job with their presentation, but I thought the topic was kind of dull. Certainly not something I would have wanted to attend.


First of all, he’s THIRTYSOMETHING? He looks about fifteen. Second, whether or not he’s a virgin is nobody’s business but his; I can’t believe Trump asked him that. There’s no way I’d continue an interview (and yes, I get that this is a game show, but still) with a prospective employer who asked about my sex life. If he is a virgin, so what? That has nothing to do with his ability to do the job. [/quote]I think Adam is actually around 22. He's the youngest contestant, I think. I agree he looks like he's 15. But I see no problems with Trump calling him out on his virginity. Adam willingly chose to put on a topic about sex, and the fact that he seemed so uncomfortable with it led Trump to wonder why he would put on a topic that he felt uncomfortable with, and that he had no apparent experience with. I cackled at Adam's "I'm not comfortable answering that" answer. The only thing better would have been if Trump said "That means 'no'."
Philyra

As for Adam - wow. A thirtysomething virgin?

First of all, he’s THIRTYSOMETHING? He looks about fifteen.[/quote]

According to the official bios, Adam is only 22. He still looks 15 though.
GoddessMelissa

And Clay, in particular, can't really complain, since he had already outed himself to: a) his team, b) an entire roomful of strangers, and c) one of Trump's deputies, who was sitting in the audience. And Adam might as well have outed himself as a virgin - there were big gaps between the lines to read things into.[/quote]

ITA. This is a job interview where the candidates, not Trump, made sex the topic and did a "presentation" on the matter where they shared their stories and opinions on sex in the workplace. So, his questions to both Clay and Adam were fair game and, most important- funny.

It's interesting from what we were shown the guy who had the most problems with the topic did the most talking at the presentation.

Next Week: Adam loses his virginity to Chewbaca.
stopeslite


Yes, Randall is a great public speaker. But did anyone else think of the Chris Rock routine when George said "He speaks really well!”[/quote]

Yep. I immediately thought, “He’s an educated man, what is he supposed to sound like?” I know George was totally well-meaning – I’ve heard that comment myself, and I always take it as such. But the routine popped into my head nonetheless.[/quote]

What else could you expect, though? He's doing an immediate comparison of Randall to the likes of Clay and Markus - of course the fact that Randall can construct a complete sentence without profanities or meaningless run-ons is something to comment on.
fposte
Word to the upstream poster who labeled the theme of this episode as "It's uncomfortable to watch someone be inappropriate."

In any version of what Clay said, it was inappropriate; in any version of what he said about contemplating other employees' asses, it was inappropriate (if he'd been talking about women's asses, I suspect there might have been some stronger objections made by the attendants, in fact). I wouldn't rule homophobia out of the picture entirely, but it's not like Clay's comments were inappropriate because he's gay, they were inappropriate because they were inappropriate. Unfortunately, Adam's best boardroom moment, wherein he differentiated private and public, was probably his weakest moment to Trump, who can't comprehend such a difference, and is therefore splattering the walls with inappropriate.

The seminars both looked like a lost hour of their students' life, but I bet it took Capital Edge's attendees longer to realize it. Randall and Co. were clearly following an outline, like sane people, while I think one reason why Adam and Clay started rambling and repeating themselves was that they were totally winging it, and winging it with a new topic and crowd makes most people default to stupid.

Trump is always so bizarre in the boardroom anyway--he reminds me of a big turtle as he swivels that head on his shoulders and peers out at the world. But last night he reminded me of Markus' long-lost cousin, with his conviction that he's a smooth, nuanced psychologist as he tries to get the women to fight and discourses on the menu theory of sexuality, while Markus soliloquized on his eloquence in a string of word-shaped noises. I must say, though, that I loved, for all the wrong reasons, Trump's "Green Eggs and Ham" interrogation of Clay--"You do not like girls on a train? You do not like girls in the rain?"
Bookrat

understand that part of The Apprentice deal is for Trump to give the kids a taste of their possible future success. "Someday you may live in a penthouse. Someday you may have dinner and caviar on a luxury yacht. Someday you may hob nob with George Steinbrenner and wear tuxedos on a weekly basis.[/quote]
Or someday you may have a job interview with an idiot who asks you all sorts of inappropriate questions....

Speaking of inapproriate talk...Mr. Trump meet Clay, Clay meet Mr. Trump. Clay is probably one of the worst public speakers I have EVER seen or heard. (and I've heard a lot)...most are deadly dull, but Clay was cringe worthy. I actually had to mute the sound during his "speech" because I was so embarrassed for him. So awful in so many ways. I think he meant the "tight as in cheap" jewish comment to be funny, but like so many would be comedians, he so wasn't.

Adam should have probably told Clay to go help Marcus play with the yo yo during the rest of the seminar.

And speaking of Marcus....he reminds of one of Gertude Stein's novels...or maybe that character from The Sound and The Fury.
legaleagle44

And speaking of Marcus....he reminds of one of Gertude Stein's novels...or maybe that character from The Sound and The Fury.[/quote]

Don't you mean The Sound and the Fnurry? Hee.
GypsyBaby

Total word soup, not a complete thought in the mix and they always think they're the smartest one there. [/quote]

O.M.G. There's one at my job, too! And if you would just take the time to listen, and if you knew anything yourself, you would know that he doesn't know what the FUCK he's talking about and he's not saying SHIT! Sorry. Thank you for listening.


it's not like Clay's comments were inappropriate because he's gay, they were inappropriate because they were inappropriate. [/quote]

ITA. My mouth wasn't open because Clay was talking about another man, but because he was talking about slapping asses and such. The whole thing was just ridiculous. Did they even have an outline, an agenda of what they were going to talk about? Any structure? Christ on a cracker. What a hot, steaming mess.
BlakeSpeare
From the looks of it, Capital Edge didn't bother to do a dry run of the entire class. At the very least, I would hope that they at least rehearsed their own individual segments of the class over and over, but I think Fposte is right and they just decided to wing it.

That, to me, is far more unforgivable than the team forgetting to put Dairy Queen branding on Zip, or emphasize the name "Zathura." When the only thing you have to do is give a class, how stupid do you have to be to go in without knowing exactly what each person is going to say?

Markus and Clay both suck, but Adam proved he doesn't have the slightest clue what he was doing. Part of it is his inexperience, no doubt, but some things should be obvious no matter how young or inexperienced you are.
Aardvark428

Why did Robin get up from the desk and lead them in?[/quote]


Because Markus can't even find his way out of a paper bag without a guide.

And a map. And a compass. And a trail of breadcrumbs - and he may still get lost talking about how in France they cut bread with a sword.

Markus lost in the boardroom. Clay was arguably the reason they lost the task (though by surprisingly little when we heard the average scores). But Markus was so unbearably annoying (and nonsensical) that Trump had no other option but to fire him. Otherwise he might have to listen to Markus again in another boardroom.

I am grateful that Markus was fired. He was grating on every nerve. I could barely watch his scenes.

Adam doesn't take a hint. It was clear when Trump was starting to gun for Markus and was practically begging Adam to concur so he could just fire the asshole and get it over with but Adam stubbornly went after Clay.


They need to change these rated tasks more - we see one group which is great only eke out a win over a terrible group. Maybe have the same people attend both classes and rate them relative to eachother?
auntiemame
You know how Jumping the Shark is the best indicator of when a TV show goes bad? I would say Embracing The Crazy is the sign of when it becomes good.

Last night was a night of Embracing the Crazy.

Sure, people who are attached to logic and rationality would necessarily be discomfited by last night's "stream of consciousness set on shuffle" (TM someone funny upthread). But if you walk into the Salvador Dali painting that was this show last night, and just kind of bathed your soul in the dripping clocks and purple horses, it was excellent.

What I want to know is, who tipped off Trump that Adam was a virgin? He obviously knew, because he pushed the point so hard. But how did he know? Was it on Adam's application? Did one of the others tell Trump?

Also Embracing the Crazy: Trump's willingness to waive Clay's obviously anti-Semitic comment because Clay was gay, and so he has experienced prejudice. So...wait. Gay people can't be anti-Semitic? Jewish people can't be prejudiced? Blacks love all other minorities?

Just because you are part of a minority does not mean, ipso facto, that you are sympathetic to all other minorities.

Did anyone else think that Trump's "sex has cost me a lot of money" was a funny hooker reference? No? Just me? Okay.
PinkyTuscadero

Yes, but I disagreed with George. The problem was...their presentation had no point! Adam thought it shouldn't just be titilating and he's right because...yea, if it's a class it's supposed to be teaching something.
[/quote]

Agreed, the presentation had no point. But how is that Clay's fault and not Adam's? This boardroom was nothing more than a popularity contest. Adam hasn't pissed anyone off enough to warrant them ganging up on him, so they all took their dislike for Clay and Markus and threw them to the wolves when the reason why they lose the task was due to lack of cohesion and no message.

I was bugged by how Adam kept accusing Clay of making "Jewish" comments and that that probably offended dpeople. Well, if it did, why didn't Carolyn read a soecific comment from the feedback card that mentioned that? It appeared as though Clay made one innapropriate comment, not several which was what Adam was implying in an attempt to save his own ass.

Trump was never going to fire Clay after last night's boardroom. The minute they started discussing Clay's homosexuality I knew he was not getting canned. Would have caused a stream of bad press and gay right's groups would start accusing Trump of being a homophobe, so Trump went the easy route and canned Markus. Who would have been canned eventually anyway.
kwnyc
Actually "Sex in the Workplace" is the kind of wink-wink nudge-nudge topic you might find in a Learning Annex catalog. (All last Friday, I was dodging people handing out flyers announcing a Trump appearance at Learning Annex over the weekend...they're about singles, celebs, and a few basic skills). Had Adam's team actually made some kind of coherent presentation, with handouts and breakout groups, and exercises, they might have scored much better. "Make Your Mark" is also exactly the sort of non-topic you might find in the Learning Annex catalog, but Team Randal made with the cute people and the flashy powerpoint presentation and involving the audience.

Laugh-out-loud moment for me was in the Boardroom when Markus coined the new word "deliveral." (I turned to my gf and said: did he just say "deliveral"?) I think I will use this amazing new word.
bahamarita

Did anyone else think that Trump's "sex has cost me a lot of money" was a funny hooker reference? No? Just me? Okay.
[/quote]

I thought the same thing! SNERK!

OK, the Sex Talk with Donald Trump has really squicked me out. The more I read the posts and the more I think about what he said to poor Adam makes me want to go home and take another shower. Because EW. And ICK. And really, did we EVER want to know that much about TD's opinions on sex? I didn't. I never even wanted to think about TD having sex.

I wonder if his hair gets messed up...the combover prolly doesn't make it through.

DAMMIT! Now I'm thinking about it again! Brain bleach, PLEASE! STAT!
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