On tonight's very special episode of The Apprentice, The Donald teaches young Adam about the joyous wonders of sexual relationships.[/quote] BWAH! and ... ewww.
I think they should have done a seminar on avoiding corporate-speak. Then they could have utilized their assets and executed their results. [/quote]
And also maximized their potential, thought outside the box, and stepped up to the plate.[/quote]
. . all while adding value to the task.[/quote]
…thereby streamlining their processes, helping to create a new paradigm which will: focus their energies, create a win-win situation, expand their customer base .... (aiiii! somebody stop me!)
"I think he takes himself out of the task, waits for it to fail, so that he can come back at the end and say 'I told you so.'" So much word, Carolyn! Damn, but she was on fire tonight!
Loved the fact that it took them 8 hours to realize that the Fatal Four were booted. (uh, guys? Trump showed up wearing a tux because he had an event to go to. 2 hours, TOPS.
Loved Adam's comment about how Markus "throws a bunch of random words together and calls it a sentence." <snerk> Also loved how he finally came alive in the boardroom, and called Carolyn "Miss Kepcher." Nice touch, big guy.
Dear Clay - please stop living down to the stereotype. Sincerely, Q.
Dear Markus: "If you really mean it..." The hell!? Go home, sweetie. Just ... go. home.
And...was that Erin carrying Rebecca's bags out of the clothing store? Looked like her for a quick second....
musichic2000
Nov 4, 2005 @ 9:31 am
...
Miss Alli
Nov 4, 2005 @ 9:33 am
Y'all, to add to what your mod already told you, we are
well beyond anyone being able to declare what the "actual" answer is as to whether "cheap" or "uptight" was meant by "tight." There are varying opinions. Nobody is going to be the person to finally declare that it is "clearly" or "obviously" one way or the other.
And please, I beg you -- unless you're running the tape, don't tell people what the "actual words" were. We're going in circles partly because the words are being misremembered and misquoted. "But remember, he's the shy, tight Jewish boy." That's the comment. You could hear it as "shy-type," I suppose, but the direct quotes listed
here are accurate according to my recording. We've got enough going on here that's
not easily resolved without disputes over wording that
are easily resolved by referring to the episode.
eyechart
Nov 4, 2005 @ 9:33 am
There's been enough discussed about Adam/Clay so I'm not going to say more about that. I will say that, being gay myself, I want to root for Clay but he's making it difficult. Mind you, we only saw the worst of him as he spoke, but...wow, I cringed.
Markus, I'm sure, is still in that cab fnur-fnurring to the driver, who is looking for a bridge to drive off of.
Does Michael Kors have a boy's department for Brian? Hee.
TraceyBee
Nov 4, 2005 @ 9:52 am
Heh. When we were shown the reward bit, I turned to MrBee and said, "I fully expect to see many references to shirtless!Randal on the boards tomorrow."
Marshawn and Rebecca looked awesome in their Michael Kors outfits, and Randal was looking mighty fine in that suit, too.
I haven't laughed so hard at a firing and subsequent cabterview since, well, since last week, actually. Markus's incoherenterview was even funnier than the Cab o' Silence. I think perhaps orbiting satellites were able to detect the combined yelling of Apprentice watchers at various points during the show, too - we were all yelling, "God, Markus, SHUT! UP!"
Good thing that was so funny, because the boardroom itself was pretty squicky. I really, really don't need to see Trumpy talking about sex, although I've heard and read elsewhere that he does it a lot. Ick.
The beginning of the show was funny, too, with everyone waiting and waiting. And waiting. And waiting.... "Guys, it's midnight! Holy shit!"
readabook
Nov 4, 2005 @ 9:53 am
Okay, okay, I know this is "reality" tv and all, but this show has totally gone off the express rails to bizarro town now.
I've never understood how washing dogs in parks, redecorating roach motels and hawking pretzels at sporting goods stores was a direct indication of your ability to be a corporate executive (does your CEO or manager directly sell, wash, or design anything?), and Trump is obviously portrayed by the show to be doing the Trump business things that reality tv THINKS that WE THINK he does, but... you cannot ask if a potential employee is a virgin. I'm pretty sure that's illegal in all our states and even a few of our territories. WTF? How is this show supposed to even resemble a second, inbred cousin to the real business world after the Hair Mogul's performance? Jeez!
To say nothing of the "Slapping Ass in Your Workplace. Wouldn't That Be Great?" seminar. Now THERE'S an idea you'd want any protege of yours to percolate in their Trump-weasel brain. Would you not fire anybody who even had anything to DO with that? Who was even breathing the same air with people who came up with the idea? This ain't reality, man. It's something else. Note that I'm not saying what.
hengist
Nov 4, 2005 @ 9:56 am
In much of the country it isn't illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. And even in those places where it is (and I believe that it is in the State of New York) it isn't illegal to ask the question, it's illegal to act on the answer. One generally doesn't want to ask the question because there's not a good employment reason to know the answer, and it creates a presumption of discrimination. But it's not illegal to ask, per se.
And it wasn't as if these were standard questions on an employment application. Both topics came up in the course of the conversation. And Clay, in particular, can't really complain, since he had already outed himself to: a) his team, b) an entire roomful of strangers, and c) one of Trump's deputies, who was sitting in the audience. And Adam might as well have outed himself as a virgin - there were big gaps between the lines to read things into.
Besides, I don't think Trump cares if Clay is gay or not. And I think he'd like to hire a male virgin, because he seems like the type who'd enjoy figuring out how to get the guy laid. So no discrimination there.
A lot of Clay's comments were squicky, and it doesn't reflect well on his ability to understand his context. But I don't think he wasn't being anti-Semetic, he seemed to be inappropriately riffing off of Adam's own self-characterization as an uptight Jewish kid. Still not good. I got the feeling that Clay was really ticked at the end because of the anti-Semetic accusation.
Could Markus have babbled any more incoherently? He may still be brilliant, but he really needs to work alone. He's the only one who can understand himself.
It seems that we've finally managed to get rid of the last grossly incompentent applicant. The rest of this season will be a little tougher to watch. Clay, Felisha and Adam seem to be lower-echelon than the others, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them go first. Randal is, of course, a lock for final four.
I would have liked to go to Excel's presentation.
DeepInTheHeart
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:00 am
I think they should have done a seminar on avoiding corporate-speak. Then they could have utilized their assets and executed their results.[/quote]And also maximized their potential, thought outside the box, and stepped up to the plate.[/quote]. . all while adding value to the task.[/quote]…thereby streamlining their processes, helping to create a new paradigm which will: focus their energies, create a win-win situation, expand their customer base .... (aiiii! somebody stop me!)[/quote]Will do, soon as I identify a proactive way to do so.
radiostar
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:02 am
I think the thing is that whether Clay's remark was inappropriate or not (I think it was, but that's not the point), it was poorly timed and indicative of the overall messiness of their presentation, which seemed to be mainly the fault of Clay. They were giving a class, not running a stand-up routine, and when one 'lecturer' is talking, the other one shouldn't be inserting smart ass comments. It seemed like Clay was unable to shut up and stop making the class all about him, with his stories and interjections, and whether or not he offended people, I think that that took their score down as well because it seemed unprofessional.
I felt bad for Adam, who was clearly terribly uncomfortable during the whole thing. I think that he did try to say that he didn't think that would be a good topic, but he was shouted down and lacked the conviction to say "I'm the PM, and I say we're not doing a presentation about sex. Come up with something else." so it was kind of his own fault. It kind of reminds me of last year making the NYPD commercials, where Elizabeth wobbled and went along with the 'sexy' commercial with the violence and the terror, while Andy said "No, we're doing it my way, and if it's wrong I'll take the fall for it."
quaintirene
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:02 am
Having rewatched the tape, I am going to step in on behalf of my favourite, Markus (just kidding). I can't stand him and I'm glad he's gone, but he was justified in repeating the question about 'why the team went wrong' and asking if that was the question on the table. Because just beforehand he had been asked another question which he bumbled, and George stepped in and asked him if he ever answered a question properly and said he was still waiting to hear the answer to the earlier question, which was why the team failed. So Markus wasn't sure which question to answer.
Edited to say that DeepInTheHeart I think it's time you stepped up to the plate.
GoddessMelissa
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:05 am
I would've fired Adam last night, because that presentation was crap--he sucked as a leader. They had a million topics to choose from, so there is no excuse for him. It's not enough to mention sex and think you're gonna get win because of the word.
You had Clay getting up there talking about getting his ass slapped seemingly out of nowhere, because there was no agenda. What exactly was the context there? Isn't it the project managers job to make sure there was context to the event, so these things don't happen?
Carolyn-buy a bra.
IfImust
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:10 am
Well...I can't come up with any reason that Markus should have been spared but I think the failure of this particular task lies with Adam. Sex in the Workplace could have been a good topic. They could have discussed sexual harassment, how to handle workplace crushes (I've seen this turn highly competent women into blithering idiots), a break-up, and sexual discrimination (including discrimination based on sexual orientation).
If the presentation had been more structured then I doubt that Clay would have made the comments he did. I do not think that the attendees were even slightly offended by Clay's gayness but rather his use of the word ass and presentation style. If he had actually had a topic, I think he would have done well. Especially if that topic was discrimination against homosexuals in the workplace - he never would have went into his "sassy gay guy routine".
Adam could have talked sexual harassment since obviously his momma didn't raise him that way and being a nice Jewish boy from Atlanta he should know how to treat the ladies with respect.
The PM (Adam) should have played to each team members strengths, knowledge, and passions and it would have been an interesting maybe even eye opening class - I think he failed miserably.
comfortablynumb
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:19 am
Sex in the Workplace was a craptacular idea. Between Adam's discomfort, Clay's ridiculous comments and Markus's fumbling with a yo-yo (WTF?) during the presentation, there was no need to watch the outcome. I was surprised they didn't score lower than 6.9. I wonder what we didn't see.
Adam is a virgin - so what??? Trump was a little obsessed with Adam and Clay's sexuality last night. Clay's gay. Yeah, so what? The whole menu metaphor cracked me up. "Trust me Adam.. sex is great." Ew!! That brought about mental images of the Trump I just didn't need.
Randal is the man. If he doesn't win this, I will be shocked. Has anyone called out Rebecca on her total lack of confidence in Randal?
kacked
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:24 am
I don't think it's fair that a person get upset when someone else says something true about them.
Clay was upset that Adam accused him of being an Anti-Semite, which I don't think he is. I'd be upset too. Had Adam accused Clay of being whiny, bitchy or just unpleasant to work with, Clay would have had no right to be upset.
I'm guessing Adam has been called a Jew in a derogatory way before and that this was just an over reaction due to past experience.
Donald should say or ask whatever he wants in the boardroom. There has been no consistency at all with what he expects from candidates from episode to episode or what he expects from candidates and he behaves. I hope no one watching this show is looking for a model professional behavior or for advice about getting along with coworkers because you would be absolutely screwed. Donald is a ridiculous old dinosaur and that's part of the enjoyment of the show.
Empress1
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:30 am
Yes, Randall is a great public speaker. But did anyone else think of the Chris Rock routine when George said "He speaks really well!”[/quote]
Yep. I immediately thought, “He’s an educated man, what is he supposed to sound like?” I know George was totally well-meaning – I’ve heard that comment myself, and I always take it as such. But the routine popped into my head nonetheless.
As for Adam - wow. A thirtysomething virgin?[/quote]
First of all, he’s THIRTYSOMETHING? He looks about fifteen. Second, whether or not he’s a virgin is nobody’s business but his; I can’t believe Trump asked him that. There’s no way I’d continue an interview (and yes, I get that this is a game show, but still) with a prospective employer who asked about my sex life. If he is a virgin, so what? That has nothing to do with his ability to do the job. I like Adam. He’s polite, and manners go a long way with me. I love that he called Carolyn Ms. Kepcher and punctuated his phrases with “sir.” I also agree with this:
That he then went to bat for Clay as a person (saying he didn't think Clay was anti-semitic) while also saying that he think Clay hurt their score shows incredible maturity.[/quote]
I don’t think Clay is anti-Semitic, either, but I also don’t think his comment was appropriate. I understood why Adam was offended, and aside from that, the comment just wasn’t okay to use in a professional setting. Not unlike talking about spanking, or whatever Clay was doing. Jesus.
Randal is totally going to win. He has two wins in his favor, and everyone, including Trump and the Viceroys, loves him. Marshawn is GORGEOUS – she was stunning in that black dress. I was jealous of this reward – I love Michael Kors, and can’t come close to affording his clothes.
Markus: boy crazy. With the rambling and the talking back to Trump and the rambling again, some more. I couldn’t believe he was playing with a yoyo during the task. He’s such a dink.
blackwing
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:34 am
I thought what Adam and Alla did to Clay was terrible. They tried to make the entire reason why they lost into a "Clay said something about cheap Jews" thing. It was not the reason why they lost. The reason why they lost was because the topic sucked. Adam, don't talk about something about which you seem clearly uncomfortable.
I agree that the presentation also lacked structure and that it could have been done better. Adam just seemed so incoherent. What was the point behind him saying something like "if I see someone I like and I don't want to spend a lot of money on dinner".
It was Adam's job as Project Manager to guide the plan, and the fact that he was so shocked by some of the things Clay was saying seems to indicate that they didn't outline the presentation at all. It was simply "whoever wants to speak about whatever feel free to do so".
I thought Randal and Marshawn did a great job with their presentation, but I thought the topic was kind of dull. Certainly not something I would have wanted to attend.
First of all, he’s THIRTYSOMETHING? He looks about fifteen. Second, whether or not he’s a virgin is nobody’s business but his; I can’t believe Trump asked him that. There’s no way I’d continue an interview (and yes, I get that this is a game show, but still) with a prospective employer who asked about my sex life. If he is a virgin, so what? That has nothing to do with his ability to do the job. [/quote]I think Adam is actually around 22. He's the youngest contestant, I think. I agree he looks like he's 15. But I see no problems with Trump calling him out on his virginity. Adam willingly chose to put on a topic about sex, and the fact that he seemed so uncomfortable with it led Trump to wonder why he would put on a topic that he felt uncomfortable with, and that he had no apparent experience with. I cackled at Adam's "I'm not comfortable answering that" answer. The only thing better would have been if Trump said "That means 'no'."
Philyra
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:35 am
As for Adam - wow. A thirtysomething virgin?
First of all, he’s THIRTYSOMETHING? He looks about fifteen.[/quote]
According to the official bios, Adam is only 22. He still looks 15 though.
GoddessMelissa
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:36 am
And Clay, in particular, can't really complain, since he had already outed himself to: a) his team, b) an entire roomful of strangers, and c) one of Trump's deputies, who was sitting in the audience. And Adam might as well have outed himself as a virgin - there were big gaps between the lines to read things into.[/quote]
ITA. This is a job interview where the candidates, not Trump, made sex the topic and did a "presentation" on the matter where they shared their stories and opinions on sex in the workplace. So, his questions to both Clay and Adam were fair game and, most important- funny.
It's interesting from what we were shown the guy who had the most problems with the topic did the most talking at the presentation.
Next Week: Adam loses his virginity to Chewbaca.
stopeslite
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:36 am
Yes, Randall is a great public speaker. But did anyone else think of the Chris Rock routine when George said "He speaks really well!”[/quote]
Yep. I immediately thought, “He’s an educated man, what is he supposed to sound like?” I know George was totally well-meaning – I’ve heard that comment myself, and I always take it as such. But the routine popped into my head nonetheless.[/quote]
What else could you expect, though? He's doing an immediate comparison of Randall to the likes of Clay and Markus - of course the fact that Randall can construct a complete sentence without profanities or meaningless run-ons is something to comment on.
fposte
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:45 am
Word to the upstream poster who labeled the theme of this episode as "It's uncomfortable to watch someone be inappropriate."
In any version of what Clay said, it was inappropriate; in any version of what he said about contemplating other employees' asses, it was inappropriate (if he'd been talking about women's asses, I suspect there might have been some stronger objections made by the attendants, in fact). I wouldn't rule homophobia out of the picture entirely, but it's not like Clay's comments were inappropriate because he's gay, they were inappropriate because they were inappropriate. Unfortunately, Adam's best boardroom moment, wherein he differentiated private and public, was probably his weakest moment to Trump, who can't comprehend such a difference, and is therefore splattering the walls with inappropriate.
The seminars both looked like a lost hour of their students' life, but I bet it took Capital Edge's attendees longer to realize it. Randall and Co. were clearly following an outline, like sane people, while I think one reason why Adam and Clay started rambling and repeating themselves was that they were totally winging it, and winging it with a new topic and crowd makes most people default to stupid.
Trump is always so bizarre in the boardroom anyway--he reminds me of a big turtle as he swivels that head on his shoulders and peers out at the world. But last night he reminded me of Markus' long-lost cousin, with his conviction that he's a smooth, nuanced psychologist as he tries to get the women to fight and discourses on the menu theory of sexuality, while Markus soliloquized on his eloquence in a string of word-shaped noises. I must say, though, that I loved, for all the wrong reasons, Trump's "Green Eggs and Ham" interrogation of Clay--"You do not like girls on a train? You do not like girls in the rain?"
Bookrat
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:46 am
understand that part of The Apprentice deal is for Trump to give the kids a taste of their possible future success. "Someday you may live in a penthouse. Someday you may have dinner and caviar on a luxury yacht. Someday you may hob nob with George Steinbrenner and wear tuxedos on a weekly basis.[/quote]
Or someday you may have a job interview with an idiot who asks you all sorts of inappropriate questions....
Speaking of inapproriate talk...Mr. Trump meet Clay, Clay meet Mr. Trump. Clay is probably one of the worst public speakers I have EVER seen or heard. (and I've heard a lot)...most are deadly dull, but Clay was cringe worthy. I actually had to mute the sound during his "speech" because I was so embarrassed for him. So awful in so many ways. I think he meant the "tight as in cheap" jewish comment to be funny, but like so many would be comedians, he so wasn't.
Adam should have probably told Clay to go help Marcus play with the yo yo during the rest of the seminar.
And speaking of Marcus....he reminds of one of Gertude Stein's novels...or maybe that character from The Sound and The Fury.
legaleagle44
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:50 am
And speaking of Marcus....he reminds of one of Gertude Stein's novels...or maybe that character from The Sound and The Fury.[/quote]
Don't you mean The Sound and the Fnurry? Hee.
GypsyBaby
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:52 am
Total word soup, not a complete thought in the mix and they always think they're the smartest one there. [/quote]
O.M.G. There's one at my job, too! And if you would just take the time to listen, and if you knew anything yourself, you would know that he doesn't know what the FUCK he's talking about and he's not saying SHIT! Sorry. Thank you for listening.
it's not like Clay's comments were inappropriate because he's gay, they were inappropriate because they were inappropriate. [/quote]
ITA. My mouth wasn't open because Clay was talking about another man, but because he was talking about slapping asses and such. The whole thing was just ridiculous. Did they even have an outline, an agenda of what they were going to talk about? Any structure? Christ on a cracker. What a hot, steaming mess.
BlakeSpeare
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:53 am
From the looks of it, Capital Edge didn't bother to do a dry run of the entire class. At the very least, I would hope that they at least rehearsed their own individual segments of the class over and over, but I think Fposte is right and they just decided to wing it.
That, to me, is far more unforgivable than the team forgetting to put Dairy Queen branding on Zip, or emphasize the name "Zathura." When the only thing you have to do is give a class, how stupid do you have to be to go in without knowing exactly what each person is going to say?
Markus and Clay both suck, but Adam proved he doesn't have the slightest clue what he was doing. Part of it is his inexperience, no doubt, but some things should be obvious no matter how young or inexperienced you are.
Aardvark428
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:56 am
Why did Robin get up from the desk and lead them in?[/quote]
Because Markus can't even find his way out of a paper bag without a guide.
And a map. And a compass. And a trail of breadcrumbs - and he may still get lost talking about how in France they cut bread with a sword.
Markus lost in the boardroom. Clay was arguably the reason they lost the task (though by surprisingly little when we heard the average scores). But Markus was so unbearably annoying (and nonsensical) that Trump had no other option but to fire him. Otherwise he might have to listen to Markus again in another boardroom.
I am grateful that Markus was fired. He was grating on every nerve. I could barely watch his scenes.
Adam doesn't take a hint. It was clear when Trump was starting to gun for Markus and was practically begging Adam to concur so he could just fire the asshole and get it over with but Adam stubbornly went after Clay.
They need to change these rated tasks more - we see one group which is great only eke out a win over a terrible group. Maybe have the same people attend both classes and rate them relative to eachother?
auntiemame
Nov 4, 2005 @ 10:56 am
You know how Jumping the Shark is the best indicator of when a TV show goes bad? I would say Embracing The Crazy is the sign of when it becomes good.
Last night was a night of Embracing the Crazy.
Sure, people who are attached to logic and rationality would necessarily be discomfited by last night's "stream of consciousness set on shuffle" (TM someone funny upthread). But if you walk into the Salvador Dali painting that was this show last night, and just kind of bathed your soul in the dripping clocks and purple horses, it was excellent.
What I want to know is, who tipped off Trump that Adam was a virgin? He obviously knew, because he pushed the point so hard. But how did he know? Was it on Adam's application? Did one of the others tell Trump?
Also Embracing the Crazy: Trump's willingness to waive Clay's obviously anti-Semitic comment because Clay was gay, and so he has experienced prejudice. So...wait. Gay people can't be anti-Semitic? Jewish people can't be prejudiced? Blacks love all other minorities?
Just because you are part of a minority does not mean, ipso facto, that you are sympathetic to all other minorities.
Did anyone else think that Trump's "sex has cost me a lot of money" was a funny hooker reference? No? Just me? Okay.
PinkyTuscadero
Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:02 am
Yes, but I disagreed with George. The problem was...their presentation had no point! Adam thought it shouldn't just be titilating and he's right because...yea, if it's a class it's supposed to be teaching something.
[/quote]
Agreed, the presentation had no point. But how is that Clay's fault and not Adam's? This boardroom was nothing more than a popularity contest. Adam hasn't pissed anyone off enough to warrant them ganging up on him, so they all took their dislike for Clay and Markus and threw them to the wolves when the reason why they lose the task was due to lack of cohesion and no message.
I was bugged by how Adam kept accusing Clay of making "Jewish" comments and that that probably offended dpeople. Well, if it did, why didn't Carolyn read a soecific comment from the feedback card that mentioned that? It appeared as though Clay made one innapropriate comment, not several which was what Adam was implying in an attempt to save his own ass.
Trump was never going to fire Clay after last night's boardroom. The minute they started discussing Clay's homosexuality I knew he was not getting canned. Would have caused a stream of bad press and gay right's groups would start accusing Trump of being a homophobe, so Trump went the easy route and canned Markus. Who would have been canned eventually anyway.
kwnyc
Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:02 am
Actually "Sex in the Workplace" is the kind of wink-wink nudge-nudge topic you might find in a Learning Annex catalog. (All last Friday, I was dodging people handing out flyers announcing a Trump appearance at Learning Annex over the weekend...they're about singles, celebs, and a few basic skills). Had Adam's team actually made some kind of coherent presentation, with handouts and breakout groups, and exercises, they might have scored much better. "Make Your Mark" is also exactly the sort of non-topic you might find in the Learning Annex catalog, but Team Randal made with the cute people and the flashy powerpoint presentation and involving the audience.
Laugh-out-loud moment for me was in the Boardroom when Markus coined the new word "deliveral." (I turned to my gf and said: did he just say "deliveral"?) I think I will use this amazing new word.
bahamarita
Nov 4, 2005 @ 11:05 am
Did anyone else think that Trump's "sex has cost me a lot of money" was a funny hooker reference? No? Just me? Okay.
[/quote]
I thought the same thing! SNERK!
OK, the Sex Talk with Donald Trump has really squicked me out. The more I read the posts and the more I think about what he said to poor Adam makes me want to go home and take another shower. Because EW. And ICK. And really, did we EVER want to know that much about TD's opinions on sex? I didn't. I never even wanted to think about TD having sex.
I wonder if his hair gets messed up...the combover prolly doesn't make it through.
DAMMIT! Now I'm thinking about it again! Brain bleach, PLEASE! STAT!
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