Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: 4-7: "Back to School" 2005.11.03
TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
Lambchop
Let me just add my very own, "STFU Markus!!" Even though he may not have lost the task for them -- he so deserved to go! His cabterview was hilarious.


I just think that Adam is totally uncomfortable with sex. He seems almost asexual.

Could be. But in the work place (even if you're just "working" on tv as a contestant to be Trump's apprentice), it's no one's business. The boss doesn't mention it, doesn't tease you about it or offer unsolicited advice, much less publicly do all that.
[/quote]

Wordy McWord! It's none of Trumpy's business. I also didn't like the way Trumpy questioned Clay when he found out he was gay.

DT: So you don't find Alla attractive? So you don't find Felicia attractive?

Clay: I think they're beautiful, but it's not my thing...

Trumpy acted like he'd never heard of anyone being gay before. So he has to ask them, "you mean, you wouldn't do her?" What a classless, clueless dickweed he is sometimes. I almost felt kind of sorry for Clay just then.

But I still think Clay's comments were inappropriate. Adam was talking about how much money you'd have to spend on a date when Clay chimed in with his "tight Jewish boy" comment. He might have meant it as a joke, but it was the wrong time and place for something like that. Clay is clueless too.

And don't slam the door when you open it Clay!

Oh -- the reward! I almost forgot! That had to be the best reward ever. Going to Michael Kors' studio and getting to pick out whatever outfit you want! I thought they'd just get to take one outfit -- but it looked like they got to take as many as they wanted! Wheee! Rebecca looked great in the turquoise dress -- Marshawn looked great in the black dress!
Kaylee529533
Randall--best competitor ever, handpicked by Trump to win before the season started, in my opinion--and deservedly so.

How then did he happen to pick Markus? Markus must have been put in as a joke, for laughs. There's no way he could have seemed normal enough to get on the show otherwise.

Why the heck were the scores so close? 6.98 to 7.07 or so? I don't get that at all. I must say, though--neither seemed like a "continuing education" topic.
eep
Very gratifying to see Marcus go home! I laughed my ass off this whole episode.

I have a theory about the Trump sex talk. I kinda think that Trump was testing Adam's threshhold for joking around. I mean, yes, in general totally innapropriate to talk about sex in this way, but Adam brought it up by making their presentation about sex in the workplace, and when Trump calls him on it he gets kinda huffy. I think Trump was testing his reaction in order to figure out how much Clay would have to say to get Adam's panties in a twist. If Adam had been easygoing about Trump questioning him, then he could conclude that Clay had to be really awful to have offended Adam so much. However, if Adam gets uptight and fussy about a topic which he originally broached, then Trump can pretty safely assume that Adam has no sense of humor and therefore Clay didn't neccesarily have to do too much to offend except give Adam's sense of humor a little too much credit. Does that make any sense? Anyway, I may be giving Trump too much credit here, but I like to think he is pretty smart sometimes, it makes the show more interesting.

Oh, and I hate Adam. He was so willing to sell Clay as a Nazi when he thought that is what Alla wanted him to do.

Terrible job by Clay, but I really don't think he should have been put through all the antisemitic stuff.
tiggeril

I have a theory about the Trump sex talk. I kinda think that Trump was testing Adam's threshhold for joking around. I mean, yes, in general totally innapropriate to talk about sex in this way, but Adam brought it up by making their presentation about sex in the workplace, and when Trump calls him on it he gets kinda huffy. I think Trump was testing his reaction in order to figure out how much Clay would have to say to get Adam's panties in a twist. If Adam had been easygoing about Trump questioning him, then he could conclude that Clay had to be really awful to have offended Adam so much. However, if Adam gets uptight and fussy about a topic which he originally broached, then Trump can pretty safely assume that Adam has no sense of humor and therefore Clay didn't neccesarily have to do too much to offend except give Adam's sense of humor a little too much credit.[/quote]
Ooh. You're right, that does add an interesting new dimension to the show. I want to believe that Trump could be that subtle, and it's a lot more heartening than to think that he was just being gauche.
Lisetta

Trumpy acted like he'd never heard of anyone being gay before. So he has to ask them, "you mean, you wouldn't do her?" What a classless, clueless dickweed he is sometimes. I almost felt kind of sorry for Clay just then[/quote]
I knew Trump wasn't exactly an "equal opportunity employer". But after watching TA1-4, it makes it very clear why his companies have very little room for minorities or gays.

I wish the "Sex in the Workplace" was a seminar about sexual harrassment--especially pointed at situations that might be of interest to Trump and people working for him. I would have gladly taught that class if I were on TA4, even knowing full well I'd incur his wrath for it. (Then again, I'd have never lasted past week 4...)

ETA: Not to bore people about the book I just read by Trump's COO ("Trumped", really good)...but the way Trump talks with the men who work for him about sex and his sex life...the women he's dating...brags about/describes their bodies, etc....I don't think he was just "testing" Adam and his sense of humor or tolerance for that topic (even though, if he was, it's no excuse and is still a lawsuit waiting to happen).

Trump -loves- the gossipy stuff and, just like with his money, he wants to make sure everyone knows Just How Heterosexual and Successful in the Bedroom he is. I think his whole attitude toward Clay and Adam was just more of "Wow! I'm such a stud! This virgin and gay stuff is so ALIEN to me!"

Really, he's an idiot.
Obladi

DT: So you don't find Alla attractive? So you don't find Felicia attractive?

Clay: I think they're beautiful, but it's not my thing...[/quote]

I was hoping he would say, 'I wouldn't sleep with them even if I were straight.' I guess Trump thinks all straight men will sleep with any woman. Alla and Felisha, in smug attitude and in ugly carnival barker clothes and constipated facial expressions, are not my idea of gorgeous creatures. Rebecca and Marshawn are much sexier.
Smushergirl

I think he was truly upset that he was “outed” in the boardroom.[/quote]

I don't see why he'd be upset at Adam for that, because IIRC it was Alla who brought up his other remarks.

I think Adam was thinking way too much about his own issues during the presentation, and not enough about what they were trying to do.
BlakeSpeare
I doubt Clay had any problem with being outed in the boardroom. If he was determined to prevent Trump from knowing about his sexual orientation, he wouldn't have told the other candidates, and he certainly wouldn't have brought up his gayness repeatedly in the presentation.

Clay has proven in the past that he takes things very personally. He thought it was "rude" that Josh chose him as the first person to boot off his team, when clearly someone had to go first, and from what we saw Josh didn't say anything negative about Clay other than choosing him.

It doesn't surprise me at all that he would take being attacked from all sides in the boardroom personally.
dreamist
It looked to me like the team was going to pile on Clay...um...turn on Clay...wow, when "sex" is part of the topic, everyday conversation sounds awkwardly suggestive, doesn't it? Like how every word in Will and Grace becomes a double entendre?

As hated as Markus is, the entire team seemed united in setting up Clay as the fall guy. Adam because of the 'tight Jew' comment; the others because of the various 'ass' references.

George was awesome for calling them out on that BS. What? You give a seminar titled Sex at Work, and then wig out when someone actually talks about the sexy attributes of a co-worker? or about sexual orientation? or suggestive/ inappropriate acts by the boss? If I had showed up at that seminar I would have expected one, two or all three of those topics to make its way onto the agenda! The attendees criticized the session because it was dull and lacked resolution. They showed up expecting to hear something about Sex! at Work! Clay, albeit ineptly, seemed to be the only one speaking to the subject.

It was a fascinating, unnerving Boardroom. At least Jenthura-Kristi engaged in a full-throttle Duel to the Death. Markus and Clay each simply, slowly, sunk in the sands of self delusion.

But nothing, maybe nothing ever will compare to Trump's upbeat little talk to Adam about sex. I think the earth shuddered momentarily, trying to reverse time and erase that terrible moment, but the moment was too long--the universe would have collapsed. But thank you, mother Earth, for trying.

And: Oh, Rebecca. oh my. Be-u-tiful.
deejoy
I love Michael Kors. I loved that black dress Marshawn tried on. I'd kill for her figure.

I am so glad Markus is gone. It was hilarious when they asked him "why did your team lose"? and he responded "are you asking me why my team lost"? LMAO!
Obladi

Clay has proven in the past that he takes things very personally. He thought it was "rude" that Josh chose him as the first person to boot off his team, when clearly someone had to go first, and from what we saw Josh didn't say anything negative about Clay other than choosing him.[/quote]

Josh called him 'bitch' and compared him to Hitler in confessionals. If he had that much hostility in confessionals, it probably showed in person.

I think Clay does take too much personally, but almost anyone would take it personally if they are called an anti-Semite, their words are twisted, they are told that homosexuality singlehandedly caused the presentation to fail (when the entire presentation was horrible), and then Adam completely reverses course as soon as he realizes Trump wasn't buying it. All that righteous anger from Adam dissipated in the blink of an eye. Then he expected Clay to not care. Of course Clay is going to be pissed, at least for a few seconds.
kyriebelle

Donald's "Are you a homosexual? Did you know he was a homosexual? Did you? Carolyn, you knew? Why didn't anybody tell me?"[/quote]

Ah Donald... no gaydar whatsoever.[/quote]

See, now I think we are all making the assumption that THE DONALD actually gives a shit about anything other than himself. Of course he doesn't know Clay is gay or that Adam is a virgin (or not) because that would require him to STOP TALKING about himself and LISTEN to other people. He could care less about any of these contestants. He just wants to scream about how he has the YOOGEST house and the YOOGEST car and the YOOGEST penis and the YOOGEST whatever. Kudos to George and Carolyn for putting up with this crap.
Legalese
Oh my, so much to talk about, so little brain capacity.

First of all, my wife and I both agree (no small feat) that this episode topped last week's "four strikes and you're out" firing - again, no small feat. So much going on this week, so many ROTFLMAO moments that this eppy will stick in the memory bank for years to come.

General observations...

Markus did not compose one grammatically correct sentence the entire eppy - he spoke in fragments, and although many of us speak in fragments every day (myself included...as a former school teacher, yes, I'm ashamed), his fragments made absolutely no sense. Someone suggested that Markus made exactly one good point - maybe he intended to make a good point, but the words that came out of his mouth...they sounded like those of a third grader whose dog ate his or her homework, or of a spouse attempting to explain away a late night at the office, or an unusual charge on the credit card, or of an office flunkie who gummed up the works due to a brain cramp. Markus deserved to go tonight because, finally, his "I'm really just a stoner who smokes cigars for giggles" reality finally outpaced the "older, out-there guy who might just be a dark horse" vibe...and because he once again contributed zilch to his team's task.

Adam annoyed, no doubt, but he performed well in the board room...under DT pressure. Trump put the screws to Adam with regard to a topic that should be off limits in a professional setting (IMHO). Adam replied discretely and sincerely, which was the most professional bit of self-protection (and smart dealing) I witnessed all evening. If I had been in Adam's shoes, I probably would have said something to DT that I later would have regretted.

Clay is an ass, straight-up (that is, regardless of his sexual orientation). As far as I can tell, he's not anti-Semetic, but what's the deal with giving him a free pass JUST because he's an out-and-out homosexual (and thus presumably has suffered all sorts of discrimination)? Has he suffered slings and arrows BECAUSE of sexual orientation? No doubt about it - that's a sad fact of life. But does that render his comments about Adam excusable in the first instance? Does that excuse him from his piss poor presentation this evening? Notwithstanding DT's sympathetic response to Clay's, ahem, "outing," Clay's jokey presentation was entirely unprofessional. If he was attempting to channel Nathan Lane, he should know that even Nathan Lane knows how to pick his spots.
Decoda
Yuck....ewww.grosss...added to the sentiment of men deciding their sexual orientation and who thou shall f*ck based on a menu?!? wtf? Just....yuck.
Hoola
Why were the numerical scores so close? I thought Randal's presentation was much more coherent and useful. It had a point. Adam and other untouched virgins were the only ones who could learn from Capital Edge's presentation. What exactly was it about again? And what did it tell you that an issue of Cosmo couldn't?
Lambchop

I think his whole attitude toward Clay and Adam was just more of "Wow! I'm such a stud! This virgin and gay stuff is so ALIEN to me!"

Really, he's an idiot.
[/quote]

Word! The way he treated Adam and Clay, I was waiting for him to point to Carolyn's cleavage and say, "Don't you want some of that?!!!"
Kirby
In my eyes, Adam saw an opportunity as soon as Clay said that. Adam kept mentioning being a Jewish boy over and over, which has no relevance except to be a stereotype of its own (Jewish boys think sex is icky!) In the boardroom, Adam was so obsessed with making Clay look bad on the Jewish topic that he went too far and said "throughout the presentation he made inappropriate jewish comments..." which is a lie because the editors would be all over that, and he had no other example except the one which he reworded to make it sound worse. Then mama Alla tried to bring him back on point, prodding him with "but enough about the Jewish comments, what about the other innappropriate things he said", which makes me think that weak little uptight Adam was put up to this by mama Alla.

The concept that Clay's references to being gay were offensive is 10 times worse to me than what Clay said to Adam. But somehow, it is still ok to be "uncomfortable" around a gay person, but god forbid anyone make a comment about another minority. Call to arms! I don't particularly like Clay, but I will be the sole voice here to say that bringing up his sexuality as a reason for their loss was classless, and easily dragged the rest of the team down to, and below, his level due to his comment. Clay spoke to his experience in the presentation (being gay) just as Jewish boy, Jewish boy, Jewish boy did (he kept on a' saying it...) And we'll never know if Clay would have been offended if the tables were turned in the presentation, because if Adam ever had to talk about gays, his head would explode from how naughty it all was.

I apologize for the impassioned nature of this post; some of this hits a little close to home with me as far as what is accepted and what is not with bigotry.
BlakeSpeare

Word! The way he treated Adam and Clay, I was waiting for him to point to Carolyn's cleavage and say, "Don't you want some of that?!!!"[/quote]

That is the funniest image I've had in my mind for a while...mostly because I could easily see it happening.

There are a lot of straight guys out there whose reaction to meeting a gay guy is, "Hey, you like guys, that's cool...me, of course, I love WOMEN! Because I'm STRAIGHT!"

And apparently Trump is one of them.
Lisetta

George was awesome for calling them out on that BS. What? You give a seminar titled Sex at Work, and then wig out when someone actually talks about the sexy attributes of a co-worker? or about sexual orientation? or suggestive/ inappropriate acts by the boss? [/quote]
Yes, but I disagreed with George. The problem was...their presentation had no point! Adam thought it shouldn't just be titilating and he's right because...yea, if it's a class it's supposed to be teaching something.

Their problem was that they never figured out what they were going to be teaching about "sex in the workplace", what the point of presenting the topic was, the goal....nothing.

Like others, I was so glad to see Markus sent home. Carolyn's disgusted expression with his answers...his completely graceless exit and DT's obvious irritation...the cab ride with the numerous "ums" and "uh's" and edited shots of the exterior of the cab interspersed with his ramblings....say what you will about Burnett, but his editors are always so great.

And, apropos of nothing. My gaydar's not exactly infallible, but it pings a lot more for Markus than for Adam....
uranushertz
This is why they have menus in restaurants - so you chose to talk all about Adam's lack of sexual experience and not LET. IT. DROP. or drool over Carolyn's dirty pillows. This is why they have menus in restaurants.

Just how much did TPTB pay Randal to be on this show? His resume already overshadows anything this show could provide him.

DT to Kellywho:"So, how's the building coming along?" Snerk.
Lisetta

Yuck....ewww.grosss...added to the sentiment of men deciding their sexual orientation and who thou shall f*ck based on a menu?!? wtf? Just....yuck.[/quote]
Yes, that was jaw-droppingly awful! Basically saying, "You mean you wouldn't 'do' Alla and Felicia? (Because I sure as hell would)." (And how embarrassing for Alla and Felicia to be held up as some kind of "test case").

It was so bizarre, I wondered what he'd say next.

"Would you sleep with Carolyn?" "You're not saying you like...George?"

Someone better give Trump some education on what sexual harrassment in the workplace looks like....QUICK!
Obladi

The concept that Clay's references to being gay were offensive is 10 times worse to me than what Clay said to Adam. But somehow, it is still ok to be "uncomfortable" around a gay person, but god forbid anyone make a comment about another minority. Call to arms! I don't particularly like Clay, but I will be the sole voice here to say that bringing up his sexuality as a reason for their loss was classless, and easily dragged the rest of the team down to, and below, his level due to his comment. Clay spoke to his experience in the presentation (being gay) just as Jewish boy, Jewish boy, Jewish boy did (he kept on a' saying it...) And we'll never know if Clay would have been offended if the tables were turned in the presentation, because if Adam ever had to talk about gays, his head would explode from how naughty it all was.[/quote]

I agree with you. I would have liked to have seen Adam's reaction if Clay had said they lost the task because people were uncomfortable talking about Judaism.

I think Alla was leading the charge against Clay, she wanted him gone, but Adam was not as effecient as she expected. I think Alla and Adam expected Trump to fly off the handle when he heard about the 'Jewish' comments, and they expected him to recoil at Clay discussing his homosexuality. They had very low expectations for Trump, I think he realized how they were playing him, and he refused to take their bait. If they had not been so obvious with their manipulation, Clay may have been fired.

People who complained about stereotypes had no problem enabling stereotypes that suited them. That tells me something about Alla and Adam.
Robert Loblaw
DT's comment about the "menu" of steak and spaghetti - maybe he should have said that some like spaghetti with MEATBALLS and some prefer their spaghetti without...
holdfast
What Clay just did not get is that what when someone rifs on themself it is self-depracating humor, but when applied by someone else it can be taken as offensive. I don't think that Clay is an anti-Semite, but his comment was really ill-timed, including the words "tight" and "Jew" right after Adam talked about whether or not one should pay for dinner. I think that Clay's statement has to be viewed in that context. It may not have been meant that way, but it was delivered and received as such.

The fact is that NY is about 18% Jewish - there's a very good chance that Clay's comment, even if not meant to be offensive in any way, was taken as offensive by a fair minority of the audience - and those people can affect your score with a few well-placed zeros or ones. I generally don't believe that there is a right not to be offended, but if you are trying to sell a product, it isn't too wise to offend your audience/customer, and Clay committed the cardinal sin of offending customers.

Also, repeated references to "slaps on the ass" are not real classy - not as huge a gaff, but not good.

The whole topic was frankly stupid, and it is only DT's own obsession with the more superficial side of sex (not that there's anything wrong with that) that kept the whole idea from being laughed out of the boardroom.

Overall, a very fun episode to watch.
henry518

Hey Rebecca, eat your words girl: "We are SO screwed!"[/quote]
Besides Marshawn and Randal, what did the other Excel members do during the presentation? I saw Rebecca greeting, but that was it. It probably was a good idea, since Brian and Rebecca didn't seem to have their hearts in it.[/quote]
Yeah, what’s up what that. It seems like Brain and Rebecca would get together just to find something to complain about.
Insomniac
Lisetta:
Their problem was that they never figured out what they were going to be teaching about "sex in the workplace", what the point of presenting the topic was, the goal....nothing.[/quote]

You hit the proverbial nail on the head. There was absolutely no presentation. No script. Nothing was planned.

Because they had nothing planned, Adam reverted to something he knew...his experience as a "nice Jewish boy." A very common phrase. A phrase usually commonly understood. Presumably understood by the NYC audience. Clay didn't get it and he screwed himself with his comment. Whatever the precise wording was, it was uncalled for.

Trumps words to Clay were totally uncalled for. "Are you homosexual?" Yes, Trump, he is, and you're an ass. Perhaps you can spend an evening together. Oh, right you don't order from that part of the menu. You're all man. You appreciate the beauty of a woman in a way a gay man can't. Please. Just because Clay doesn't want to "do" a woman the way you want to doesn't mean he's blind to beauty. (There aint that much beauty in that BR.)

Markus, what is there to say? He'll find a way, but it won't be coherent. That was the *best* cab ride ever. The cabbie should have dropped him off at the nearest babbling brook.
odietamo

Of course Clay is going to be pissed, at least for a few seconds. [/quote] I personally don't care if he is pissed or not. IMHO, Clay is a tactless person who doesn't know how to read the room. His presentation was unprofessional and really very tasteless. He was there to teach a class. Who cares about his ass? Who says out loud words like "ass" in a professional environment? His "Jew" comments were inappropriate and offensive as well. Adam didn't make anything up: his reaction to Clay's remarks was very telling. Blacks can call themselves an "N" word five times a minute, but if you aren't black, you shouldn't join. It's not your fun. Jews (catholics, strippers, gays, etc) may joke about each other, but if you aren't one of them, dodn't even try to be funny and witty. Clay should've been fired for inappropriate comments and unprofessional conduct.
Adam tried to steer the discussion into a dating topic. He probably wanted to make this 'provocative' subject into more meaningful conversation, but Clay wouldn't let him.
dreamist

If I ever make a comment about not wanting to spend money, and someone calls me being a tight Jewish boy, I'm going to assume they meant I was cheap. But that's just me.
[/quote]

Blakespeare - I know that stereotype goes back a long way, but I don't understand. The Jews I know seem thoroughly American in their money views and interests.

Last year, my daughter inadvertently hurt a Jewish friend with a simple snark involving money -- it was exactly what she would have said to any other friend. My daughter was unaware of the Jewish stereotype and was shocked that her joke had offended. Now she just never mentions money to said friend, which is a courtesy but also, I think, a barrier.

Clay's situation is different. His comment was clearly an ethnic slur. " remember, he is a tight Jewish boy". I don't think he was being malicious - I thought he mainly wanted more of the limelight. My objection was that he had interrupted Adam's presentation at a critical point. Adam didn't seem to get back on track. But now I think the racism distracted Adam as much or more than the interruption itself: "Did he just call me a tight jew? he totally did!"
Kirby
I'm sorry, but Adam did make something up: he outright lied. Clay did not say tight assed Jew, and he did not make inappropriate comments about Jews throughout the presentation. And if you make comments about being a good little Jewish boy, and someone who is not Jewish joins in, and you are offended, a simple "that was inappropriate" explanation will suffice, not the harping and whining that the opportunistic liar Adam took to the boardroom. And if the audience was so offended, how come not a single comment card referenced to anti-semetic gay guy who scared them with all the gay talk? Surely if such a comment card existed, the viceroys would bring it up as it would be of supreme relevance. No, the comment cards said the class was unfocused, boring, and taught nothing. They weren't offended, they were bored out of their trees.
Obladi

I personally don't care if he is pissed or not. IMHO, Clay is a tactless person who doesn't know how to read the room. His presentation was unprofessional and really very tasteless. He was there to teach a class. Who cares about his ass? Who says out loud words like "ass" in a professional environment? His "Jew" comments were inappropriate and offensive as well. Adam didn't make anything up: his reaction to Clay's remarks was very telling.[/quote]

I agree Clay does not know how to read the room, but the presentation was about sex in the workplace. The whole presentation was awkward and poorly done.

Clay made one comment about 'tight Jewish boy' after Adam had repeatedly mentioned his Judaism. A stupid comment which Clay apologized for. Adam went to the boardroom and claimed Clay 'repeatedly' made remarks about Jewish people. He also said Clay said 'tightass Jew', which I never heard. I do think Adam exagerrated what Clay said, and his desperate backtracking in favor of attacking Markus made me think this all the more. Adam knew he did a terrible job and he was trying to avoid being fired.

Then they went on this bizarre tangent that Clay discussing homosexuality was a big reason the team lost. They were trying to come up with any random reason to get rid of Clay, and they failed. Clay should grow up and focus on the next task, but if he wants to be angry for a few minutes, then I think he has the right. They came across as very exploitive, at least I felt they did.
dreamist

The problem was...their presentation had no point! Adam thought it shouldn't just be titilating and he's right because...yea, if it's a class it's supposed to be teaching something.

Their problem was that they never figured out what they were going to be teaching about "sex in the workplace", what the point of presenting the topic was, the goal....nothing.[/quote]

I agree with you, Lisette. While I personally liked Adam's emphasis on respectful boundaries, 'Sex and Work' was a blatant title and suggested a more hardcore presentation. Clay's Springer-trash-confessional was too vulgar but I think the content was somewhat consistent with the workshop title.

I believe that collectively the team, other than Adam, initially aimed for an edgy take on the subject (they made it sound almost like a social mixer) and as Adam reined it in - probably a good call- it sputtered into the aptly described.. nothing.

I am probably Markus-mangling this response.
highlander
It's one thing to say something about yourself-it's another thing for someone of another religion or ethnic background to jump in and say it. My son, who is away at college is very good friends with a group of African Americans. When his friends are joking with one another that call each other the "N" word. My son never joins in and knows that he should not say it. When I asked my son why they call each other that, he said it does not have the same meaning when they say it as opposed to if a white person said it.
Clay should have understood he needed to keep his mouth shut at that point. Also, Clay's presentation was crude and unprofessional such as ("when I see a guy's ass I like") If he was straight would he have said when I see a girl with a nice set of boobs. He seemed to have forgotten this is a job interview and not just a task to have fun with.

Just watched the extra footage on yahoo. Randall stayed up all night to work on the presentation while his teammates slept. In the final boardroom, Clay and Adam tell Trump that Alla is very smart and a very good leader. Seems she is going to final 4.
Obladi
With a title like 'sex in the workplace', then a straight man may have discussed a woman's breasts. The title was very vague, as was the subject matter. I blame the PM for the lack of direction.
holdfast


DT: So you don't find Alla attractive? So you don't find Felicia attractive?

Clay: I think they're beautiful, but it's not my thing...[/quote]


I was hoping he would say, 'I wouldn't sleep with them even if I were straight.' I guess Trump thinks all straight men will sleep with any woman. Alla and Felisha, in smug attitude and in ugly carnival barker clothes and constipated facial expressions, are not my idea of gorgeous creatures. Rebecca and Marshawn are much sexier. [/quote]

I was actually hoping for something more like "I wouldn't schtup them with your dick Mr. Trump."

But that's just me. And someone apparently thought Alla worth killing for.

Also, given her last name it's possible she took the "perceived" Jewish slur a little personally.
JennaC
[/QUOTE]I personally don't care if he is pissed or not. IMHO, Clay is a tactless person who doesn't know how to read the room. His presentation was unprofessional and really very tasteless. He was there to teach a class. Who cares about his ass? Who says out loud words like "ass" in a professional environment? His "Jew" comments were inappropriate and offensive as well. Adam didn't make anything up: his reaction to Clay's remarks was very telling. Blacks can call themselves an "N" word five times a minute, but if you aren't black, you shouldn't join. It's not your fun. Jews (catholics, strippers, gays, etc) may joke about each other, but if you aren't one of them, dodn't even try to be funny and witty. Clay should've been fired for inappropriate comments and unprofessional conduct.
Adam tried to steer the discussion into a dating topic. He probably wanted to make this 'provocative' subject into more meaningful conversation, but Clay wouldn't let him. [QUOTE]

Word. The fact that there are so many differing opinions about what Clay said/meant underscores why his comments were inappropriate in this setting.

While this "game show" is not truly an interview, I felt like DT violated the spirit of the show by asking blatantly illegal questions in the boardroom. The entire conversation diminished the integrity of the Trump Organization. I wonder what George and Carolyn thought of that exchange?

Love Randall. I really wanted to like Markus and I think DT set him up for failure early on with his putdowns (Trump set the stage for everyone to dump on Markus) but I agree that he needed to be cut loose.
Obladi

Also, given her last name it's possible she took the "perceived" Jewish slur a little personally.[/quote]

Wasn't she the one who tried to steer Adam away from the anti-Semitism claims when she realized they were not working?

If she does manage to force Clay out, I wonder who she will scapegoat next. Next week she will probably make sure her toady Felisha gets PM and then she will be default PM.
dess
Funnily enough, the closed captioning on my TV captioned the infamous Clay line as "shy-ass Jewish boy".

Anyway, I think he meant cheap, and he meant cheap because that's the stereotype, and that's what would make it funny. (though it was really just awkward)

I'm lovin' Marshawn more and more, she's just so classy and good looking. Too bad they didn't show the final outfits they picked, I wanted to see makeover! Randal looked fabulous, but what was that sweater vest thing the other guy was wearing? Gross. Also glad the black woman isn't crazy this season.
dreamist

When his friends are joking with one another that call each other the "N" word. My son never joins in and knows that he should not say it.[/quote]

That is the new protocol. When I was in school, my roommates were black and I was adopted into a welcoming black circle. We could, and did, call each other absolutely anything. One of my black roommates proudly announced that she hated whites and would kill any and all, including me, if she could get away with it. I told her I was the *other* kind of discriminating - I dislike a person based on behavior not color. However, I did appreciate her warning.

Fun times. But I would never say the N word, even to a bestest friend today, becoz it is the sole property of the black community.
jaycbird
I cannot believe that NONE of these people seem to have taken a "Sexual Harrasment Awareness" class in the workplace! I mean, isn't that what "Sex at the Office" COULD have been? And then, The Donald asked questions that would have gotten him sued in a REAL situation! If Clay had the balls, he should persue that. However, I would guess there is some sort of stipulation in the contract that these people MUST take whatever TD dishes out!

It was sort of interesting to see TWO uptight minority members (Jewish vs. Gay) work each others nerves like that. Can't wait to see the 'post door slam' moment next week!

In the end, I am glad that Markus (whose hair is actually WORSE than TD's?!) and his burnt out brain is OFF my TV!!!
Batrochides
I think that Clay is no more nor less anti-Semitic as he is ageist. You can look on that any way you like.

Adam was obviously uncomfortable with the topic, but he saw its interest-generating possibilities and gave it his best shot, hoping that he could keep it relatively tasteful...more Dr. Ruth Westheimer than Howard Stern. Clay, unfortunately, seems to have got into his head that he should make the presentation more kewl with Howie-like asides, but they were irrelevant, disruptive and ill-advised, so he came across as Artie on a bad day.

I think that Clay was pissed at Adam primarily for bringing up something in the boardroom that he thought was over and done with (as he'd apologized for any offence), with a forced discussion of his sexuality as a second factor. Still, waaay too bitchy behavior towards someone who could have thrown you under a bus in the BR for expressing something that could be easily construed as anti-Semitic.

Speaking of closets, I'd say it was nice to see Kelly out of his Trump Ice office. If I really meant it.

Alla is a serious dark horse for at least the runner up position. Marshawn did better this week than in the last few tasks, but I still don't think that she's doing a good job in justifying her assumed runner-up slot against likely-winner-to-be Randal.

Last week, I saw Clay having a BuffytVS's Andrew vibe. Watching Adam putting on his tie and drily explain his perceived advantages as the future PM, I was reminded of old school Wesley Wyndam-Pryce, when he was the bumbling Priccus Maximus Watcher of Sunnydale High.

At least TD fired one of the two fitting candidates for departure. If this was TA2, he'd turn to Adam and say, "someone who works for me has to be able to handle difficult people. You couldn't handle Markus and you couldn't handle Clay, so...you're fired!"

Personally, since I think that whatever chance the Sex at Work theme had was torpedoed by Clay's risque ad libs, he should have been the one sent to the cab. Markus's blathering, and the inadvertent official outing of Clay, saved the latter's ass for another week.

God, what an oblivious jagoff in Markus. Still, at least part of me wanted him to really let rip at Trump after the firing; maybe have security drag him to the Loserville Lodge.
Lisetta

Clay made one comment about 'tight Jewish boy' after Adam had repeatedly mentioned his Judaism.[/quote]
No, the quote upthread was right. Adam had just been talking about dating...wanting good conversation...and also feeling that he wanted to spend the money (a practical concern he probably thought lots of young men in the room would think about). That's when Clay said he was "shy, tight, and Jewish"...."Tight" obviously meant "cheap".


He also said Clay said 'tightass Jew', which I never heard.[/quote]
He didn't remember the wording exactly right, but he -did- get the meaning, "cheap".


Then they went on this bizarre tangent that Clay discussing homosexuality was a big reason the team lost.[/quote]
Clay wasn't "discussing" homosexuality, though. He just brought it up because that was "sex in the workplace" to him. He "shared" with the audience how he might see some new employee and think he was attractive, think about his ass...how he'd had a boss who commented about Clay's ass....etc.

It was very crudely phrased for a "seminar" and, like the rest of it...what was the point he was making? I don't think a similarly crude patter (and TMI) from someone straight would have been any less inappropriate and unwelcome.


They came across as very exploitive, at least I felt they did.[/quote]
I just thought his comment about Adam plus TMI about his own sexual interests were very unprofessional. I realize Trump couldn't fire him on the spot (not after the big "reveal" about his homosexuality), but imo Clay and Markus should have both been fired.

Oh, and Trump's turning to George, kind of smirking, and asking, "What do you think about that, George? Because you've heard a lot (of anti-Jewish remarks being Jewish yourself)."

George said, "Those comments have no place in the workplace." But I bet he's heard some of them from Trump himself (or at least quoted to him by or about DT). Trump should have fielded it himself, not made it all, "But...you're black. You've been victimized, too. Now, you just tell us how blacks feel about this!"

Added note: We've seen how contact with Trump has sucked the life out of Bill and Kelly (not sure Kelly ever had any, but he's no -better- now). I hope Kendra's safe in Florida. It would be sad to see her enthusiasm and initiative reduced to "Yes, Mr. Trump. Whatever, you say, Mr. Trump. I've learned so much and had so much...fun...yeah, fun."
anwen

George was awesome for calling them out on that BS. What? You give a seminar titled Sex at Work, and then wig out when someone actually talks about the sexy attributes of a co-worker? or about sexual orientation? or suggestive/ inappropriate acts by the boss?

Yes, but I disagreed with George. The problem was...their presentation had no point! Adam thought it shouldn't just be titilating and he's right because...yea, if it's a class it's supposed to be teaching something.

Their problem was that they never figured out what they were going to be teaching about "sex in the workplace", what the point of presenting the topic was, the goal....nothing.
[/quote]

I absolutely agree. It seemed very clear to me they had no plan, and while I can't imagine signing up for a class called "Sex at Work," I'd be really annoyed to pay for any class and find a bunch of yahoos playing talk show. While the topic of Excel's class didn't sound thrilling, they obviously had outlined what they were going to cover, prepared appropriate materials, and had a sense of how to break up the class time. Having given similar presentations (in style, not theme), I believe it's always best to have more structured material than you think you'll use.

It also seems to me that while it's one thing to have a "provocative" title to get people to come to your class, you don't want to "provoke" them into giving you bad reviews because you offended them--by which I don't only or even necessarily mean the "gay" or "Jewish" comments. Based on how shoddy the whole thing is, I can imagine tons of potentially embarrassing landmines that could have come up without a plan. (It's interesting that Alla(?) mentioned they would cover what to do if you "didn't agree" with office sex, for example, but it certainly seemed that the prevailing atmosphere was celebatory of casual sex. Which wouldn't offend me (not my thing, but safe/sane/consenual? knock yourselves out)--but especially if someone came to this thing expecting to get information on sexual harrassment, say?).


The concept that Clay's references to being gay were offensive is 10 times worse to me than what Clay said to Adam. But somehow, it is still ok to be "uncomfortable" around a gay person, but god forbid anyone make a comment about another minority. Call to arms! I don't particularly like Clay, but I will be the sole voice here to say that bringing up his sexuality as a reason for their loss was classless, and easily dragged the rest of the team down to, and below, his level due to his comment. Clay spoke to his experience in the presentation (being gay) just as Jewish boy, Jewish boy, Jewish boy did (he kept on a' saying it...) And we'll never know if Clay would have been offended if the tables were turned in the presentation, because if Adam ever had to talk about gays, his head would explode from how naughty it all was.[/quote]

My take on that was that the team's reaction to Clay's comments only showed how poorly planned this whole event was. And maybe I'm too much of a cynic (being the girl trotted out to explain that yes, I am Christian, and NO, I don't think homosexuality is a sin has made me weary), but I think it is an unfortunate reality that there are people who are still uncomfortable with homosexuality, and in a setting such as this class, it would have been sensible business strategy to have some awareness of it. Which doesn't mean not discussing it. And I certainly didn't find Clay's comments "offensive," but I did think they might play into the dumb-ass belief some straight men have that gay guys are just desperate to check them out and seduce them and whatever--which, I reiterate, is a stupid belief, and one which I try to shut down whenever anyone tries to defend it in my presence. Since we didn't see what happened next, I have no idea if there was any other context--but having met enough people who held that belief, I would certainly wonder how they might react to that. Maybe I'm too cynical, but this was one of their business tasks--they could either take care to avoid potential offenses (no matter how stupid they might be--but that's something businesses do, cater to the stupidity of the public) OR to approach those areas head-on. But while it would be wonderful if homophobia wasn't so widely tolerated, I don't have a lot of confidence that ignoring that is going to work, either in a business setting or, frankly, an educational one. (Then again, maybe I'm worn out from trying to detangle the "acceptable" levels of homophobia and sexism that pop up even in our liberal denomination church youth group, without having the parents come after my husband with torches). Again, having ANY sort of plan/organization structure/theme would have served them all well--if only to know what each other was doing.

I do think Adam and Alla were maybe hoping to play to some homophobia on Trumpy's part (or at least that he would tolerate homophobia if it came to money--cause money matters, did you know?) by implying without saying that Clay offended people, but Trump got. . .distracted by the thoughts of food and boobies, and I think George and Carolyn were too smart to fall for that, which is why they stayed focused on the judgment demonstrated by Clay's "tight Jewish boy," comment. I'll try to watch the boardroom again, but I got the feeling that the Viceroys tried pretty hard to stay away from whether or not Clay's comments about being gay were appropriate in the context of their class. And that is shitty on their part--and again, if they'd had a PLAN for the class, they might have a better leg to stand on whether his comments could have been better handled within the context of what they were trying to accomplish.

And frankly, I think the jump from "Adam is uncomfortable talking about sex at the workplace" to "Adam is obviously homophobic" is even sillier than jumping to Adam must be OMG!a virgin! Clay was the one who immediately began (in interviews) mocking Adam's (presumed) lack of sexual experience, and cutting him off in the presentation was disrespectful regardless--and made them look unpolished.
Obladi

No, the quote upthread was right. Adam had just been talking about dating...wanting good conversation...and also feeling that he wanted to spend the money (a practical concern he probably thought lots of young men in the room would think about). That's when Clay said he was "shy, tight, and Jewish"...."Tight" obviously meant "cheap".[/quote]

I think he said, 'a tight Jewish boy.' He should not have said anything but Adam had already discussed his Judaism several times, so Clay was jumping on the bandwagon.


He didn't remember the wording exactly right, but he -did- get the meaning, "cheap".[/quote]

I think he got the wording very right - he wanted Trump to hear the worst meaning possible. He said 'tight-ass Jew', when that is not what Clay said. Adam twisted Clay's words to make Clay sound like a bitter bigot. Adam also claimed that Clay made other anti-Semetic remarks, but he never bothered to list those. Later when Trump talked to him again about the anti-Semitism, he didn't even seem to remember he had said there were other statements. If Clay had been up there inciting hatred against Jewish people, which is basically what Adam and Alla wanted Trump to believe, then we saw very little of this in the footage.

First Adam acted personally assaulted by Clay's statements. Then when Alla butted in, Adam tried to redirect the conversation to focus on Clay being too inappropriate for Sex at Work, even though Adam had never set any guidelines or tried to come up with a plan on what to say. Next was the half-assed claim from some of them that the mere mention of homosexuality had offended people, which again makes Adam responsible as much as Clay, since Adam was in charge. Finally, Adam said Clay was not anti-Semetic, he thought other people were offended by Clay's Jewish remark, and that is why they lost.

He had all these different stories when the real goal seemed to be that he was doing and saying anything he could to get Clay fired.

One of the worst scenes for Adam was on the extended footage, after Alla and Felisha left. Clay said Adam and Felisha were Alla's puppets and Alla had told Adam every single word to say. Adam was not even able to defend himself from these charges. I think he managed to say once - in a half murmur - that Alla did not tell him what to say. Adam came across as so weak, at least in my opinion, that Trump quickly realized the whole thing was a power play by Alla as well as a frenzied attempt by Adam to save himself after a horrendous stint as PM.


Clay wasn't "discussing" homosexuality, though. [/quote]

Markus focused on objections to homosexuality. Alla and Adam said nothing to correct him, so I think they were framing the debate on homosexuality period, not on TMI or ass-slapping. From the footage we saw, some of Clay's comments involved homosexuality. Others were very out of place, at least if anyone had any idea what the hell Adam had planned.


I realize Trump couldn't fire him on the spot (not after the big "reveal" about his homosexuality), but imo Clay and Markus should have both been fired.[/quote]

Leaving out Markus, I think Clay would have been fired if Adam had not been so manipulative-clumsy in the boardroom. They were saying anything and everything about Clay and for once, Trump and the viceroys seemed to know what was going on.

Personally I think based on Clay's past wins, he deserved one more shot. If he screws up again, then he will be fired, and will deserve it. I only hope if Alla or her lapdogs screw up, they don't manage to push any of the blame on him.


"Adam is obviously homophobic"[/quote]

I don't think he's homophobic, I think he's a self-serving hypocrite. He claimed to be offended by anti-Semitism when it served his purpose, and he kept quiet during homophobic blame games against Clay when it served his purpose.
unpeople
That was a Hall of Fame cabterview by Markus this evening. For your amusement (but really, mostly for mine), here's the transcript:

"I, I think that the team took advantage of my ideas, I, th, th, th, the people, you know... gee, how to say it... [long pause] ...you know, the, eh, eh, yo, I mean that, you know, it's, I... uh, speak intelligently, and I speak to the point. I speak to the details, and I do feel, I do, uh, go into detail, and, uh, you know, I've tried to step up, and do the right thing, and, um, I'm, I... you know, wh- where, when you've done all you can do, where do you go fr- from there? I, I don't, I don't have a clue."

It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife.
Obladi
Clarification

Did Clay ever say what his exact words were? I thought he said 'tight' but several people have mentioned here (someone I know also mentioned this) he said 'shy type', which has none of the connotations of 'tight'.
hapless

Randall's public speaking/teaching ability. I was also impressed. I assumed that he is so good at teaching because he's been in school so long himself. I mean when sitting through lectures at Oxford and MIT and one or two other places long enough to get five degrees you have to learn something about good educational presentation. [/quote]

All students in universities nowadays have to give presentations, undergrad and post grad. You also to make presentations with a group (which sometimes you don't pick) on a topic you don't care about. The presentations are graded to include audience participation. Exactly what Randall did successfully.

After Randall's idea was discussed, I was reduced to yelling at the TV "How to Make Yourself into a Brand!" That would have been catchy and interesting. There's much buzz out there and how to books on how to make yourself into a personal brand. Look at Martha Stewart, she branded herself before creating the corporate business. When you network and have a brand, potential employers or businesses recognize what you represent as a person.

Although they stepped up to the plate and swung for the fences, at the end of the day, there wasn't much extant value added by Randall's team. I just had to say it!

As to Adam's private sex life, being Jewish, some groups are very conservative and marry within their faith, virgins until marriage, etc. Perhaps he is in this group. I wonder why men that aren't sexually promiscuous are thought to be gay? Maybe some people just want sexuality purity, especially with all those STDs out there.

Loved Markus' exit and remarks to DT. I think he said he was railroaded from the onset of the gameterview. At least that was my interpretation.

When DT married Melania, I had very snarky ideas of DT and sex. Mostly about his TrumpDo.
Midnightmom

And then, just when you thought the awkward-fest was over, Markus opens his mouth to actually doubt that Trump wishes him luck -- how juvenile -- and Trump insults him right to his face... again![/quote]
OMG!!! I thought he was questioning whether Trump really meant that he was fired!!!

Trump+$$$$$$$$$$+lots of lawyers+imagined immunity from lawsuits=nouveau rich of the worst kind
beezer
The sex thing aside, and the literal joke on like page 2 is dead on, the hilarity of the ACWDW was my fave. Well, that and pretending Kelly does something involving buildings, and not, you know, selling TrumpWater over the phone.

The footage of them all sitting around, especially Alla and Felicia sitting together with Felicia's head on Alla... it was like they'd sent the four of them out on an expedition from their ship and are coming to the realization that they've been eaten by whatever lurks outside.

The morose 'they were my friends' talk and staring was just hilarious.

I really can't stand Adam, for no particular reason but that he strikes me as just in love with his own whatever, including that mediocre singing. I get the feeling he thinks he flies under the radar but will stun people with his mad talent, which.. no.

Markus is so determined to have people listen to him ramble it's downright bizarre. He keeps saying he wants to have everyone listen to him, he wants someone to hear what he's saying, he's loony but in such odd ways.

Second-best cabride ever.
ghettofabman
After watching last night's episode (the boardroom in particular), I think that I am gonna need a shrink. That was truly horrific.


Was it just me, or were you rooting for TD to fire both Clay AND Markus?[/quote]

Personally, I thought that tonight's clusterfuck of a boardroom warranted a triple firing. Of all the people who actually deserved the firing, Markus deserved it the lease. Nevertheless, he was long overdue for the axe. Honestly, I think that Clay should have been fired for giving such a tactless and offensive presentation. He clearly fumbled when it came down to it. Adam should have been fired for turning a seminar into an open forum and also for picking a subject matter that he knew little to nothing about. The group had no formal direction and there was no cohesiveness within the presentation. I am very surprised that Carolyn pushed so hard for Markus to get the axe. Yeah, he sucks, but he needed to be benched in this particular task. Trump should have waited until he was PM again to give him the axe. I think that axe deserving order for the night should have been like this...from most to least deserving: Triple firing, Clay, Adam, Markus.


I think he was truly upset that he [Clay] was “outed” in the boardroom.[/quote]

Granted, if he admitted to being openly gay, I don't understand why would he be upset at being outed in the boardroom? Clay did say that he felt that being openly gay would help him in the interview process, so why would he conceal the one aspect of himself that would contribute to how well he does during the interview process? Whatever he was mad about, I felt his reactions after being salvaged in the boardroom did not warrant such poor sportsmanship and unprofessionalism.

Forget Carolyn's boardroom performance, Alla was the one who so had an agenda in that boardroom. I was surprised at the fact that she kept interrupting Adam in the boardroom. It seemed to me that she was pushing for a double firing if nothing else.

Watching all that sex talk and Markus's psychobabble in the boardroom was like being on a really bad acid trip.

ETA: You know it's a really sad day when Felisha looks like the most competent person on Capital Edge. Oh, and Clay was definitely channeling Kristi last night!
Obladi

Granted, if he admitted to being openly gay, I don't understand why would he be upset at being outed in the boardroom?[/quote]

I think he was upset because they tried to say the team lost because of his homosexuality. Then he had to go through a very clumsy questioning from Trump. He probably thought that some of the idiots on his team decided if they made sure Trump knew Clay was homosexual, Trump would immediately find a reason to fire him.


Forget Carolyn's boardroom performance, Alla was the one who so had an agenda in that boardroom. I was surprised at the fact that she kept interrupting Adam in the boardroom. It seemed to me that she was pushing for a double firing if nothing else.[/quote]

She probably did more to help Clay than she ever imagined if she was the one who coached her little footstools Adam and Felisha. Trump practically had to keep Clay around after the weird and ever-changing claims tossed at his head. Some of the faces she made when Adam didn't stick to the talking points...and then she snickered when Markus spoke. I think Trump sees Alla as a supercool, mediocre blonde who will be perfect fodder for the finals. Another version of Jennifer Massey. I wonder if Alla is going along because of the publicity, or if she actually thinks she has any chance.


ETA: You know it's a really sad day when Felisha looks like the most competent person on Capital Edge.[/quote]

The less time she gets, the better she becomes. Maybe next week they can ship her off to Hong Kong to find some more dog pelts to wear around her collar.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.