TWoP Forums > 4-6: "Take Me Out To The Boardroom" 2005.10.27

Full Version: 4-6: "Take Me Out To The Boardroom" 2005.10.27

TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery

Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

LoneHaranguer

Oct 29, 2005 @ 8:44 pm

OK, it's definite - Trump in tux = "I already know which of you losers I want to fire tonight, so we'll make this quick and I'm off to dinner". Nice that he learned from his mistake last time, took a page from Martha's book, and didn't let the PM get in his way. So, why did it take till the fourth season to figure out that he needs extra candidates up front if he wants to do multiple firings? Four at once, and he can still do a double if we have a final three, like last time - or two doubles or a triple play, if the 13 weeks includes the clip show. Does anyone know if it does?

Someone upstream mentioned that it looked like, from the reward, it was expected that a team would pick fishing. Probably just clumsy intro wording, but it makes sense. A quick pick strategy would have been to choose something with an intimidation factor you could help a potential buyer with to make an initial purchase (in this case, by showing how easy it is to cast a line), with a reputation for participants always ready to buy more (so let's make that today). Although, if you're sitting in Trump's boardroom, he's on the links, and Carolyn's in charge, golf might spring to mind first (to some, anyway). Not that Josh & crew shouldn't have done better with baseball. Who did they think was going to buy a batting cage? At least the radar guns, which got more air time due to Jen's boasting, had a chance of selling.

Magsi2

Oct 29, 2005 @ 8:46 pm

I think getting in the vendors (Jen's idea) was seriously damaging to sales[/quote] Actually, I think the orginal plan belonged to James. He suggested setting up a different station at each base for items used at that base and food/drinks to make it a real family day/affair (I don't remember the exact wording). I still don't get the part for each base, unless "Home" would have been bats, batting helmets, umpire stuff , and balls for the pitching mound. The other 3 bases should require the same stuff.....clothing, gloves, hats, shoes, socks, black stuff to block the sun (like under their eyes, I don't remember the name). They even mentioned putting the batting cage along 1st base line (for lack of a better description) so it wouldn't interfere with the rest of the set up. I don't know why they wouldn't have know the size of the batting cage. I would guess that they come in different sizes. When they saw the size, they should have just skipped that part. They still would have had the theme to work with. (IMHO)

lauriecake

Oct 29, 2005 @ 9:22 pm

Thank you tiggeril, for reminding me about "Life continues", as quoted by respected philosopher Donald Trump. I had forgotten about that shit. IMO, ten times funnier than the cab ride.[/quote]

I had forgotten about that as well. I still am giggling over it.

rcpubdef98

Oct 29, 2005 @ 10:05 pm

I think Trump's "what's missing in you" was a comment he made to Erin. All of those remarks in the promo were recycled ones.[/quote]

I think that was Elizabeth from S2.

Tegan Jovanka

Oct 29, 2005 @ 10:17 pm

Exactly. Now more people may watch to see what Trump is going to do next. [/quote]

I really don't think they will. The viewers are so done with this show, I don't even know if a ritual sacrifice would bring them back.

Lily Bart

Oct 29, 2005 @ 10:24 pm

Did I miss it or did not one discuss how bad a decision it is to have food in a sales area? [/quote]

I also thought it was strange that they were allowed to sell food in the store. Since when does management embrace the idea of greasy fingers all over the merchandise (Dirty! Yes, I'm 12)?

Black Knight

Oct 30, 2005 @ 12:01 am

I didn't see the food selling as a big deal, personally. But then I'm used to places like CostCo where they hand out food samples constantly and don't worry about customers touching the many non-food products available for sale afterwards.

In any case, the store might not have liked it (although I would think the store probably had the right to approve the teams' plans), but I doubt the food-selling had any negative effect on sales. More likely the reverse, as it got people in the store and got them to stay longer than they might have otherwise, and be in a better mood for buying. (And someone posted upthread that the non-baseball departments had very good sales during the baseball expo.) Which reminds me, that was the one criticism of Marshawn's I thought was completely ridiculous. Yes, Marshawn, the fact I bought a $3 hot dog is going to be the factor that dissuades me from spending $100 for a baseball bat. Except not. People have to eat regardless and would probably have spent more on lunch elsewhere in NYC that day if they hadn't eaten at the store.

Hoola

Oct 30, 2005 @ 12:08 am

If you spend $20 buying your family food, you might not spend $30 on a baseball glove.

I still believe that baseball lost them the win. It's seasonal, it's a team sport, most people play in organized leagues that purchase most of the pricey equipment through wholesale. Golf has apparel, a more mature and wealthy fanbase, and individuals purchase nearly all of the equipment. Buying a baseball or a glove doesn't seem to be a spur of the moment decision. You buy it when you need it because you or your kid joined a team. But you can decide to pick up golf any time. I think Alla's team was able to creat a really friendly environment that lured people into purchasing who would not have if they just passed by the usual displays. Josh's team had a fun event that did nothing to invite people to purchase sporting equipment.

beezer

Oct 30, 2005 @ 1:49 am

Those stores were not in NYC, at least not in Manhattan god knows. I think one of them was in a Jersey mall, but I'm not positive - it looks just like the one I've been in but I presume they look the same. That's the only place I've seen a Dick's Sporting Goods.

I think it's not so much the $3, as it is the mentality involved, though I agree with Hoola that if someone bought something for everyone, that's their purchase. I think if someone only spends $3 though, it's that they were dragged in by the kid, made to wait on the line so the kid could bat, and then they spent money. I don't think that'd likely to put people in a mood to spend more money.

Rabrab

Oct 30, 2005 @ 3:36 am

scarletsmith (Oct 28, 04:03 PM) :
In many ways, this reminded me of the Casino task in TA1, where the teams had to come up with a game of chance and sign up casino patrons to participate, then the revenue generated from those patrons gambling would be used to determine the winner. [/quote]

Another similarity to that task is the misstep that one team made in making their draw too effective. Bill, Troy and Kwame's tigers were a big draw, but they were pulling people off of (or delaying them going to) the gambling floor. When the guys realized that, they sent the tigers back to wherever. The difference this time is that this team didn't see that the draw (the batting cage) was detracting from the task (equipment sales) and do something about it.

lostcawz (Oct 28, 04:09 PM) :
I'm still not understanding what James/Mark could have done differently short of abandoning the batting cage (which was working brilliantly at getting people into the store) to sell stuff.[/quote]

One thing that they could have done would have been to end each session with specific suggestions for something that would help the kid's game. Of course, that would have worked only if the sales team was ready to take each family as the kids finished and concentrate on them. Basically, James and Mark were in a good position to set up sales and then hand off already-inclined-to-buy people to the sales team.

Also, there's no real indication that the batting cage brought more people into the store. What it clearly did do is keep them in the department longer than normal. Like Trump pointed out, they had acaptive audience, and they didn't take advantage of it. Chat up the parents (suggest that maybe the kid has outgrown the old glove; can use a heavier/longer/thicker bat than last year; maybe suggest that a new season rates new shoes (how many kids stay in the same shoe size for more than six months at that age?); a spiffy new hat or shirts. Use the time to get the parents to consciously inventory their kid's gear and consider upgrading it, now, while they're in the store.

From what I saw, Jen's biggest flaw was that she apparently thought that being the sales genius meant that she was going to oversee the sales crew, not really actually sell, herself. That's based on her Boardroom defense that "I really am good, but it wasn't set up the way we had talked about."

FuManchu

Oct 30, 2005 @ 6:12 am

Fun as this episode was, I was initially convinced that Mark didn't deserve to go - after all, he'd only been carrying out the task he'd been given.

But, with further thought, the quadruple firing seems a much better idea. It is precisely the fact that Mark just did one thing all day that made him worth firing. He'd thought he could play the system - there are established rules of the Apprentice that we all, consciously or unconsciously, know by now. One of these is that if you do what your PM tells you, then if it all goes wrong your PM will take the blame. Nobody can fire a loyal employee. Hence Mark's silence in the boardroom - it wasn't his problem.

And it is precisely that complacency that made him worth firing. If we suspend disbelief for a moment and assume that Trump is actually looking for an employee, he isn't looking for someone who can carefully judge blame in advance and get along by always hiding behind someone who's worse. It was obvious to anyone that the batting net would be causing problems - and don't tell me he never took breaks or chatted with the rest of the team about how things were going.

The fact he was content to coast along, secure in the knowledge that it wasn't his responsibility, gives Trump a legitimate reason to fire him. If he'd suggested changes and been overruled, then I'd have protested more. But, so far as we can see, he just dropped balls into a machine all day.

AuntieKaren

Oct 30, 2005 @ 8:00 am

He'd thought he could play the system - there are established rules of the Apprentice that we all, consciously or unconsciously, know by now. One of these is that if you do what your PM tells you, then if it all goes wrong your PM will take the blame. Nobody can fire a loyal employee. Hence Mark's silence in the boardroom - it wasn't his problem.[/quote]
I agree. I think the Apprentice candidates believe they have the "game" figured out--you can avoid being fired by doing what your PM tells you and keeping your mouth mostly shut in the boardroom. By firing Mark and James, Trump made a statement that The Apprentice is still his game--he's still in charge, not the candidates. The potential Apprentices can't manipulate Trump.

ravyn

Oct 30, 2005 @ 9:55 am

I really don't think they will. The viewers are so done with this show, I don't even know if a ritual sacrifice would bring them back[/quote]

Oh, please please please let it be Markus!!!

highlander

Oct 30, 2005 @ 10:00 am

Hi-I am new to these posts. Some thoughts of mine are that I believe Alla did the smart thing by sending Jenn, Rebecca and Marshawn to Excel and keeping Felisha. First, if CE is sent to the boardroom, Alla has a much better chance that Felisha will turn on the guys that Excel sent over and not on her. Alla so far has felisha's loyalty and not the others. Alla, who is perceptive, knows that Rebecca is not her ally. Marshawn will say it like she sees it in the boardroom. I also noticed that in almost every show, Alla gave respect to Rebecca, such as saying something like "Let's listen to what Rebecca is suggesting" or "I want to hear what Rebecca is suggesting" and Alla felt that Rebecca's "Zip" was the best the team came up with. Also, in the Lamborghini episode, Alla commends Jennifer M with coming up with "Do we need permission" tagline. Alla voted to give exemption to Marshawn even though Alla took charge of the video which was on the mark of what the executives were looking for and much better than the guys. I see Jenn M as blowing with the wind. First, she is close to the blondes, then the brunettes when she sees how much Trump likes Reecca and Marshawn, then the guys on Excel when she feels they are ones to ally with. At least, Alla is loyal to Felisha. I think the brunettes did not respect Alla due to her lack of a college education and I think it is possible that her "stripper" past came out in the boardroom that the editors did not show us. I think it came out after CE lost the task right after Marshawn's win.

Ashforth

Oct 30, 2005 @ 11:04 am

I'm with everyone who suggested that time in the batting cage should have been contingent on making a purchase. They could have done the same thing with the food - present your receipt for a free hot dog. And why, why didn't they make a waiting list of names and call people when it was their turn instead of having them wait in line not even looking at the merchandise, much less buying it? Jen was a fool, but blaming her for not selling to the people while they waited in line was stupid.

I wonder of the cost of the batting cage was deducted from the sales and contributed to the sales being less than the average?

At my office, we wondered why neither team chose personal fitness as their theme. Shoes, apparel, exercise DVDs/videos, yoga and other accessories, heart monitors, IPODs and radios, gym bags, treadmills and other home gym equipment, sunglasses and the like could have added up to beaucoup sales. We weren't sure whether that would qualify as a "sport" but thought that it should.

I loved the mass firing. Sure, it was a stunt. The whole show is a stunt, y'all! I gave up on it as a "realistic" job interview long ago. As long as it entertains me, I'll watch it. It nearly lost me last time, but this season has been much better.

auntiemame

Oct 30, 2005 @ 11:08 am

highlander what makes you think Alla's stripper past came out in a BR moment that wasn't shown? I'm not contradicting you, just curious as to why you think so.

Those stores were not in NYC, at least not in Manhattan god knows. I think one of them was in a Jersey mall, but I'm not positive - it looks just like the one I've been in but I presume they look the same. That's the only place I've seen a Dick's Sporting Goods. [/quote]

You could tell those suburban kids were insanely obsessed with baseball. They all looked so freakishly determined in the batting cage, and whenever James or Mark said anything to them about their form, the body language was all, "shut it, fucko." It was so Children of the Corn. By watching that, it was clear the team would lose -- they weren't knocking the kids (or the parents) out of that weird hyper-competitive reverie that kicks in when it comes to suburban sports. Kind of awesome, really.

highlander

Oct 30, 2005 @ 11:11 am

The hotdogs, soda, and popcorn was through a vendor Excel brought in and he was there to make money-the vendor had nothing to do with Excel making money. Therefore, it was a bad idea to hire that vendor. Jenn was hawking the food which was a totally crappy thing to do since she knew it would not add to their profits. Jenn did not sell-simple as that.

Auntiemame-
I think it might have come out that Alla was a stripper because I noticed after CE lost right after Marshawn's win that Toral was showing her disgust blatantly in the boardroom-"In your book, Mr. Trump, you say to look at the source-who are the sources here" and she makes very disgusted faces. Also, Rebecca and Marshawn seem to stay away from Alla after Marshawn's win and Jennifer joins up with them as if she sees where the wind is blowing. Alla was giving them respect by listening and complimenting them unlike Kristi and yet they seem turned off to Alla. I think Kristi and Felisha did not care that Alla was a FORMER stripper and liked her and her brains. I think Alla will make the interview process and be eliminated and her stripper past might not even come up on the show.

Also, Toral goes out of her way in an interview she did saying that being with Alla, a former stripper, she did not want to use the same toilet as Alla in the suite which I found to be an unnecessary thing to say. True, Toral could have found out about Alla while Toral was in the loser's lounge but it is possible she found out while still on the show.

tuesdaythe13th

Oct 30, 2005 @ 12:17 pm

highlander what makes you think Alla's stripper past came out in a BR moment that wasn't shown? I'm not contradicting you, just curious as to why you think so. [/quote]
Didn't Trump imply this in an interview just before this season aired?

tiggeril

Oct 30, 2005 @ 12:30 pm

Yeah, I remember when the whole Alla thing first came to light, Trump said that it would come up during the show itself.

highlander

Oct 30, 2005 @ 12:39 pm

Tiggeril
You may be right but I sort of remember Trump saying that it came out in the boardroom-he did not say it would be aired.

murphsully

Oct 30, 2005 @ 12:53 pm

Masem

Oct 30, 2005 @ 1:50 pm

Trader Joe

Oct 30, 2005 @ 2:37 pm

My kids Lurve to go on treadmills/elliptical/cardio equipment at Dicks. That gives an opportunity for certain ages of kids to be distracted while their parents shop, but, not real little guys.

lawgal

Oct 30, 2005 @ 6:59 pm

Ashforth:

At my office, we wondered why neither team chose personal fitness as their theme. Shoes, apparel, exercise DVDs/videos, yoga and other accessories, heart monitors, IPODs and radios, gym bags, treadmills and other home gym equipment, sunglasses and the like could have added up to beaucoup sales. We weren't sure whether that would qualify as a "sport" but thought that it should.[/quote]

I hadn't thought of this, but your idea would have been totally brilliant. Everyone is always talking about getting into shape, and they do have a tendency to buy [and then not use] fitness equipment. I, for one, have an unused treadmill, stationary bike, free weights, an adjustabe bench, and videos from tae bo to step aerobics, and I suspect I am not alone. I purchased all of the items with the best of intentions. and could probably be suckered into buying more at a festive event.

With baseball, the number of people playing is actually somewhat limited, and Little League players already have their uniforms and most equipment, and weekend soft-ballers aren't so serious about the game. With golf, I think the buyers probably don't make impulse purchases, but instead give a lot of thought to their equipment.

With fitness stuff, you could make a large volume of small-ticket sales like rubber band-type strength training, videos, work-out clothes to all types of people. Maybe they even could have gotten a couple of body-builders in to hawk their videos and magazines. Great idea!!!! [Of course, we here at TWoP are always more brilliant than the contestants.]

tuneman570

Oct 30, 2005 @ 10:24 pm

Best. Apprentice. Ever.

Tell ya'll what.... i just can't wait for the recap this week. I have this image in my head of the gang waiting up in the suite to see who comes back, and they staying up all night when no one shows up....

Rabrab

Oct 31, 2005 @ 1:00 am

With golf, I think the buyers probably don't make impulse purchases, but instead give a lot of thought to their equipment.[/quote]

Really serious golfers may consider their purchases carefully, (especially their big-ticket purchases,) but weekend duffers have lots and lots of dinguses and dohickeys that are impulse buys.

Here's the first fifteen items of 140 that came up on MSN shopping -- Dick's --golf accessories. Everything from pen sets to special tinted glasses that supposedly make finding your ball easier. And the prices range from 4.99 up to several hundred dollars. If you go to the Dick's website, there's even more silly shit, like leprechaun-shaped club-head covers. Impulse purchases in the making.

marylou

Oct 31, 2005 @ 6:37 am

Granted, I live in Seattle, but I am pretty dialed in to the outdoor industry, and I've got to say that family camping should have gotten serious consideration as the "sport" of choice. It enjoys a very broad base of appeal these days, especially as baby boomers look for ways to relive the glory days of their backpacking youths. People spend ridiculous amounts of money on gear they may almost never use, and there are a nearly infinite number of gizmos and gadgets. For a lot less floor space than either team used, they could have had tent pitching clinics/contests, stove demos with food samples, a pack fitting demo, a GPS clinic, and almost anything else you can think of.

I think if TD/Carolyn's instructions had been a bit different, one of the teams might have come up with this idea, and it would have been a winner.

That said, I've never hear of Dick's Sporting goods (we have REI here, since the 1960s) and I can only assume they sell family camping gear. Can't be that yoouge, we don't have them on the West Coast.

On the show:

Why do I still hate Alla so much? Something about her seems really dishonest. I don't know why, though I love her wacky outfits. What was with the criss cross top and the criss cross scarf over the blazer? I expected to see fake military medals with that ridiculous get-up.

Also, why are these people so not outdoorsy? And while the reward was lame, why were the women not fishing? I am a woman and I like to fish. Doesn't take any particular manly man-ness to do....

Booklord

Oct 31, 2005 @ 8:35 am

Why do I still hate Alla so much? Something about her seems really dishonest. I don't know why, though I love her wacky outfits. What was with the criss cross top and the criss cross scarf over the blazer? I expected to see fake military medals with that ridiculous get-up.[/quote]

Alla and Felicia represent what remains of the coven. I thought her talk about preferring Kristi to Jen M was based entirely off personal feelings and not business.

I also really thought her team picks were terrible. Jen M was a good choice. But Marshawn? She should have given up Felicia first. ( which probably would have resulted in an even bigger loss for Excel and five fired Apprenti )

While Alla admittedly did a good job. This task was really not that hard. Pick a good product. Create a draw to bring folks in but don't go overboard. And sell, sell, sell. Josh didn't get a single one of those right. Against competition that inept Melissa or Markus could have led the team to victory.

natashapierre

Oct 31, 2005 @ 9:00 am

With baseball, the number of people playing is actually somewhat limited, and Little League players already have their uniforms and most equipment, and weekend soft-ballers aren't so serious about the game. With golf, I think the buyers probably don't make impulse purchases, but instead give a lot of thought to their equipment[/quote]

The fatal error for Excel likely came in the way they chose their sport, rather than the batting cage and so on, I think.... Of course, they may have considered more, but all we *saw* them consider was soccer and baseball, both sports they mentioned because, most likely, they played them or had played them. ... But both are sports that are pretty much entirely played by the kids, making the number of parental impulse-purchase items a lot lower.

How many of that Excel group have any experience in sales and the like? Certainly Rebecca and Marshawn don't, for example, (though I assume some of the guys do -- too lazy to look, however) which would help explain why they didn't choose a product with sales potential in mind but instead mulled only sports they had personal interest in. ... I'd say Capital Edge was lucky that none of them were athletic, because that meant that they'd necessarily focus on what woudl sell, rather than on what they liked.

auntiemame

Oct 31, 2005 @ 10:14 am

On the matter of Alla's stripper past, I do remember Trump recounting the revelation in TV Guide:

"It turned out she was so competent at handling and dealing with men that I started out asking, 'Where did you get this talent?'" says Trump. "I actually said, 'Let me ask you: Were you a stripper?' After some grilling, she said yes." Does Wartenberg show off her skills on air? Says Trump, "I'd better not answer that."[/quote]

But Alla has not yet had any task where she had to handle and deal with men (except maybe Clay, but they won that task so there was no BR for Alla). So it could entirely be possible that it has already been asked and answered in an untelevised BR, but since we haven't seen Alla display her awesome man-subduing skills yet, I would tend to think that the revelation is still in an upcoming episode.

You could be right, though. You make a very good case.

By the way, her "cut it" order to Clay? Loved that. I really did. Because he was being hysterical and whiny, and she just ended that whole display real fast.

quaintirene

Oct 31, 2005 @ 10:49 am

It seems a bit of a leap from being 'competent at handling and dealing with men' to 'were you a stripper?'. Wouldn't someone who had been a waitress at a truck stop have had similar abilities? Or a men's hairdressers or outfitters?

CheekyCricket

Oct 31, 2005 @ 10:57 am

I also really thought her [Alla] team picks were terrible. Jen M was a good choice. But Marshawn? She should have given up Felicia first. ( which probably would have resulted in an even bigger loss for Excel and five fired Apprenti )[/quote]
I think she chose the team that would work hardest for her. Keeping Randal is a no-brainer. Then, Alla knows that she works well with Felisha, she knows what Felisha can do, and she can count on her. Marshawn, on the other hand, is intelligent, poised, articulate and good at analyzing problems encountered during the task, but she seems almost too detached at times. I don't believe that Alla could count on steady support from her. Maybe so, maybe not . . . I don't think that Capital Edge would have done better with Marshawn.

blackwing

Oct 31, 2005 @ 11:00 am

I agree that plenty of women besides strippers could be competent at dealing with men. Just about anyone in customer service, or a flight attendant, or any of a bunch of different jobs.

For him to make that leap, I think he probably got the tip-off from one of the other candidates. Probably someone in the suite who overheard her talking about it. I would love it if it turns out that Markus slips a note to Trump or Carolyn, because he seems just the tattle-tale goody two shoes type to do it.

Peg Amy

Oct 31, 2005 @ 11:06 am

Maybe so, maybe not . . . I don't think that Capital Edge would have done better with Marshawn.[/quote]
ITA. Marshawn was by far the better PM, but Felisha seemed really good at the customer service stuff, which is more important on this task. Had Felisha been on Excel instead of Marshawn, I think she probably would have had the same job and sold about the same. Sometimes team chemistry is more important than inherent ability and Alla and Felisha worked well together. I didn't see them being catty together or trying to put the others down. Alla was pretty critical of Markus and Clay, but that didn't have anything to do with Felisha. Felisha is not a strong leader but she's shown herself to be a good worker bee.

marketdoctor

Oct 31, 2005 @ 12:01 pm

Re: was serving food a good move?

Generally, serving food in retailing is a good move if:

1. You get profit/sales from the food itself.
2. The food/drink doesn't interfere with the merchandise (it's one reason malls have a food court--to send the message "eat in the food court, not in the store."
3. You're hoping to have customers stay long enough to get hungry.

Since (as others have pointed out) the food sales didn't count toward the sales (and remember, this was a task for sales, not profit), people (especially kids) sometimes spill drinks, and most importantly, Dick's is the kind of store where unless you're absolutely obsessed with sports AND live in a remote village somewhere, you're not going to need to spend all day there (the sports-obsessed are likely to visit more often, not to make it a day trip), the food wasn't a great idea.

Come to think of it, having equipment that required a significant fraction of your team to operate, instead of selling, was also an idea that didn't work out really well, especially since you were evaluated on THAT DAY'S SALES, not building a relationship with the customers.

I think that's why many "good salespeople" don't do better on selling tasks on this show: good salespeople have repeat customers and referrals, but this show only rewards what happens on a specific task (and sometimes wood shop skills, painting talent, or other random skill sets.) If I were Trump, I'd only look at how well people handled themselves in the boardroom, but what made me upset was that this week, we didn't even get much of that. He was set to fire four, and he couldn't fire Marcus and co., so he picked the next easiest way to do it.

pacestick

Oct 31, 2005 @ 12:07 pm

Therefore, I conclude the quad-firing is just how they wanted to do the show for whatever reason. In fact, given that Trump apparently had to really sell Dick's on the idea of being on the show, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he promised them the quad-firing ahead of time just so the Dick's management would feel better about the likelihood of their episode being "a good one."[/quote]

Definitely. On the one hand you supposedly had an angry sponser because one team really screwed up. On the other hand if this firing were not preplanned you now have three angry sponsers who lose their paid for airtime. No way DT would anger three to make one happy. [/quote]

I am sorry I just do not agree with that. It would be hard to justify a quad firing ahead of time. He could not have done it if the task was close. And we have seen really close ones. I think they only discussed it at the time and when the idea came up decided it would be good for ratings. They had probably planned in a few "doubles" and just combined them all together. They may also change the interview task. This would allow all sponsers to stay.

Since when does Trump step in and tell the PM who to bring into the boardroom? If I were James and Mark I'd be PISSED. They were on the wrong team on the wrong task.

I think no matter which team lost, four people were getting canned. [/quote]

This is a reason James and Mark were fired. They did what they were told to (man the cage and nothing else). They were not concerned about the task at all, as seen during Bill's discussion with them. They knew they would not be called into the BR so they did not do a great job, no extre effort put in. That was wrong and why I support the firing. (I know, no one else cares how I feel)

Somethings can't be changed. After James and Josh decided to put up the cage, were they really going to chuck the idea because Marshawn expressed concern. When you're not in charge sometimes it's best to let the person who is make the big decisions. It's most efficient and even ethical to give deference to the PM. Too many chefs spoil the broth. [/quote]

I agree that if one person says it not going well, maybe not. But really, was she the only one who noticed they were not making money. Even Jenn said she only sold 8-9 bats. They could tell it was not going well and should have changed their course of action. Better to change and try to win than stay the course and lose knowingly.

Markus had enough time to chat in the back with Carolyn,[/quote]

If I was PM I think I would let Carolyn talk to whomever she wanted. Not saying Markus is great, just sayin'

Does it really matter if Alla wasa stripper? Do people (besides Toral) really look down on others because of their chosen profession. Is being a stripper that bad it's not like she was a lawyer?

edited for spelling

Tegan Jovanka

Oct 31, 2005 @ 12:50 pm

Sometimes team chemistry is more important than inherent ability and Alla and Felisha worked well together. I didn't see them being catty together or trying to put the others down[/quote]

I think they only break out the cattiness when more women are on their team. I wouldn't be surprised if they broke out some cattiness (like the "bitchy woman times 1000" comments Alla made privately) towards Clay and Markus.

ConanGrammarian

Oct 31, 2005 @ 1:44 pm

THE TEAM MIXING:

I was really surprised that a team composed of mostly "not even close to the top players" (Alla and Randal being the main exceptions) won so handily. Who is Adam? Clay is a solid, if whiny and insecure, teammate. Felisha is hanging on very tightly to Alla's coattails. Markus...'nuf said.

The other team had Marshawn (a little withdrawn but a solid performer), Mark (major comeback from his disasterous performance in the Lamborghini task), Rebecca (hobbled and naive, but usually a solid performer) and James (solid if not outstanding). It should have been a slam dunk. Granted, they did have JenM (on thin Trump Ice from last week), but even she is pretty solid if managed properly.

I really thought Alla gave away the strength of Capital Edge (except Randal) until the victory margin. Maybe she knows something about personnel management and team chemistry I'm not giving her credit for knowing.

THE CHOICE OF SPORTS:

Team mixing aside, baseball was a poor choice without a tie-in marketing campaign to little leagues and softball leagues in the area. Golf was a solid choice. Why didn't anyone ask Dick's what sports sell the largest volume (in items sold) on a given day? A high frequency of purchase indicates a built-in upsell potential.

The choice (to increase category sales) needed to be a sport that is equipment intensive with a mix of inexpensive equipment, branded clothing (golf is the definition of a suburban branded clothing-intensive activity), expensive equipment, and knick-knacks.

As bad a choice as baseball was, Rebecca's offer of soccer was worse. Soccer is not an equipment-intensive sport, so there are few items to sell besides shoes, shirts, and balls.

Baseball/Softball afficianados purchase mostly bats, gloves (batting and fielding), shoes, jerseys, and pants. Most baseball / softball equipment is pretty long-lasting and doesn't change. A progressing little leaguer might need a heavier bat, but, for the most part, it's pretty durable equipment. The sport offers few impulse and frequent purchase opportunities.

The potential customer base came for the batting cage and nothing else. They weren't using it to try out their new bat or potential new bat - like the golfers were using the driving range.

I wonder how many of the parents of little leaguers dropped their progeny off for the batting cage and went shopping somewhere else. First rule of selling: make sure you're pitching to the money.

I was indifferent to the choice of selling food. JenM's focus on it was wrong, but the food was a way of keeping people in the store.

Golf OTOH offers shoes, shirts (lots of shirts), tools, bags, clubs, and gloves. Golfers are notorious for "needing" the latest club, a new glove, a bigger bag, new shoes, etc. I know everytime I go into Nevada Bob's I end up walking out with something.

BOARDROOM:

I was surprised all four were taken out. I think Trump was a bit embarassed about his potential proteges' performance. Maybe he just wants more empty space for episodes later in the season. Or, he already knows who the final 2 will be and is getting impatient about getting there and bored with listening to all the whining and blamestorming in the boardroom.

JenM sunk her own boat. She bragged about being a great salesperson and stood around shouting for people to buy lemonade and hot dogs. If she'd known anything about baseball / softball, she'd have known the average player does not have a radar gun and doesn't want one. The average little league coach or league has at least one, but usually only needs a new one when the existing one breaks.

Nutjob

Oct 31, 2005 @ 2:41 pm

Frankly, I think TD dropped Mark from his list of possible winners on the Lambourghini task. He would have fired him then if Chris had brought him into the BR. To me, it was similar to, although not as extreme as, the Toral situation, and the next time Mark was in the BR, he was going to go.

I don't, however, understand firing James. At all. But who knows what goes on in the mind of The Donald?

JTMacc99

Oct 31, 2005 @ 2:41 pm

ConanGrammarian, I disagree slightly. I don't think the sport had to be equipment intensive. I do, however agree with your points about impulse and frequent purchase opportunities.

Hockey has been mentioned here, and I agree with the poster who called it equipment intensive. The thing is, there's not a lot of impulse buying. Who the hell needs two pairs of elbow pads? Nobody, but then again, who the hell needs two 5-woods? Nobody, but that doesn't stop golfers nearly as much as a sane person would think.

I can't think of any sports other than golf and fishing that would have worked. I suppose skiing, which has also been mentioned here, is also a great choice. However, there aren't a lot of mountains on Long Island (nor easy access to mountains) so that probably would have been a yooge failure as well.

beezer

Oct 31, 2005 @ 3:32 pm

Hockey I think would have been a phenomenally poor choice. There is a ton of equipment, but what's expensive is hugely so - a pair of goalie leg pads can go for $1000 - and most of the kids who play are outfitted in used equipment. There's a huge trade-up market in hockey equipment around kids' leagues. I've yet to be in a rink without a mess of flyers from people selling off the smaller stuff and buying the larger.

It also suffers from the team-sport problem. If your kid is on a team, chances are he or she has the equipment already.

People will buy new skates sometimes or goal pads (though as I said, often as not, they buy used), but they're like a Christmas-present purchase oftentimes. You ponder skates, it's less an impulse buy.

quaintirene

Oct 31, 2005 @ 3:34 pm

How much hockey and baseball equipment is handed down from kid to kid? That would have to cut into sales of new stuff.

CheekyCricket

Oct 31, 2005 @ 3:40 pm

I was really surprised that a team composed of mostly "not even close to the top players" (Alla and Randal being the main exceptions) won so handily. Who is Adam? Clay is a solid, if whiny and insecure, teammate. Felisha is hanging on very tightly to Alla's coattails. Markus...'nuf said.

The other team had Marshawn (a little withdrawn but a solid performer), Mark (major comeback from his disasterous performance in the Lamborghini task), Rebecca (hobbled and naive, but usually a solid performer) and James (solid if not outstanding). It should have been a slam dunk. Granted, they did have JenM (on thin Trump Ice from last week), but even she is pretty solid if managed properly.

I really thought Alla gave away the strength of Capital Edge (except Randal) until the victory margin. Maybe she knows something about personnel management and team chemistry I'm not giving her credit for knowing.[/quote]
I've been puzzled by this, too. I do think that Alla has been underrated, and that she does know more about personnel management and team chemistry than she's been demonstrating before this episode. On the hand, I think Marshawn and Rebecca have been over-rated to varying degrees, because they come across as nicer than Alla, and they're popular with the Apprentice audience.

Excel, after winning four of the first five tasks, fell apart after losing their supposedly weakest members, while Capital Edge won after taking in those weakest members. Not only did they win, they won decisively, and they had lost Marshawn and Rebecca, regarded by many as good contestants. They all got along well, so interpersonal conflicts were not an apparent problem. In fact, I start to wonder if they put too much trust in each other. Too much trust in Josh's ability to lead, too much trust in James' ability to draw a crowd through baseball and in Jenthura's self-professed ability to sell. In short, Excel seemed to lose perspective. Individual team members could see individual problems, like the fact of the batting cage crowding out the sales floor, or the fact that no one was tracking sales, but somehow, no one could see the overall picture. Of course, ideally, that someone should have been Josh, who also revealed himself to be a good contributor, but a weak leader.

To me, Alla deserves much credit for Capital Edge's win, and I'm sure that Randal did a great job of executing the plan she developed, but I'm wondering if Clay, for all of his cantankerous moments, has been making strong contributions to Excel's victories. I also think that Felisha, though she's not much of a leader, is a good worker bee who flourishes when she has a clearly defined task and a sense of purpose.

Or, [Trump] already knows who the final 2 will be and is getting impatient about getting there and bored with listening to all the whining and blamestorming in the boardroom.[/quote]
That's what I'd vote for. Or, he has a good idea as to which candidates are capable of making it to the final four.

I don't, however, understand firing James. At all. But who knows what goes on in the mind of The Donald?[/quote]
The only thing I can figure is that The Donald really hates it when someone who's been on a steadily winning team starts losing when he/she moves to another team, or when their original team changes membership and begins losing. I recall many, many previous comments about how the Golden Boy/Golden Girl/Promising Candidate has turned into a Loser by becoming associated with "losers." "What happened to you?" he demands when they land in the boardroom.

pacestick

Oct 31, 2005 @ 3:49 pm

being from Canada I would have picked Hockey (because you need a lot of euipment, I mean a lot) But if they had done hockey I am sure they would have gotten shallacked even more. I never said I was smart.[/quote]

I never meant this as a serious suggestion, more as a joke.

Sometimes team chemistry is more important than inherent ability and Alla and Felisha worked well together. I didn't see them being catty together or trying to put the others down[/quote]

I totally saw the cattiness come out when they were together in the bedroom waiting for Kristi to come back. I think Alla kept felisha because they were friends, that's it. No scheme. No Plan. Just friends. Which Is OK, I think?

Excel, after winning four of the first five tasks, fell apart after losing their supposedly weakest members[/quote]

I am sorry but I disagree with fell apart. They made a plan (baseball) executed and stuck (wrongly) with it. They felt they had to continue with the plan and could not deviate.... oh never mind fell apart is apt. But i do not agree Alla is the best. They just had the right sport.

Trader Joe

Oct 31, 2005 @ 3:57 pm

I think the Donald looked genuinely disgusted after firing those guys. I dont think it was a ratings stunt at all. Im glad to see him get so fed up and lose them all.

I dont think he's a good enough actor to have faked that hang-dog look.

listening to all the whining and blamestorming in the boardroom.[/quote]

Word to this, oh the pain of listening to that crap week after week.

blackwing

Oct 31, 2005 @ 4:11 pm

I don't, however, understand firing James. At all. But who knows what goes on in the mind of The Donald?

The only thing I can figure is that The Donald really hates it when someone who's been on a steadily winning team starts losing when he/she moves to another team, or when their original team changes membership and begins losing. I recall many, many previous comments about how the Golden Boy/Golden Girl/Promising Candidate has turned into a Loser by becoming associated with "losers." "What happened to you?" he demands when they land in the boardroom.[/quote][/quote]I wouldn't exactly say James was a Golden Boy. He did next to squat during his time on the show (from what we've seen), except hit baseballs during the Mets reward. I think James got fired because he really contributed nothing positive during this task. Plus, Trump seemed aware that the disastrous batting cage was James' idea. He said something about how James was "showing off" in the batting cage. I think Trump hates show-offs. Kind of ironic, since he's one of the biggest show-offs of all, but I think he especially hates show-offs that have no credentials to back themselves up.

Nutjob

Oct 31, 2005 @ 4:54 pm

True. And I also think that he considered James to be responsible for the whole concept.

Golf was actually the perfect choice for this task--it's mostly played by middle-higher income adults, who are the ones that can afford to buy the associated goods and often spend a lot of money on them.

CheekyCricket

Oct 31, 2005 @ 4:57 pm

I wasn't so much thinking that James was a Golden Boy, as I was of Trump's pattern of comments about "losers," but I see your point. James hadn't made obvious contributions to a task before this one, and when he finally makes an obvious contribution, it's the one most symbolic of the loss, even if it's not the major reason for the loss. I still hold Josh most responsible for the loss, and Jenthura lined up right after him.

I think the Donald looked genuinely disgusted after firing those guys. I dont think it was a ratings stunt at all. Im glad to see him get so fed up and lose them all.[/quote]
On the second viewing, I saw a lot of the first, and a little of the second. If it was sort of a stunt, and he needed to get rid of a lot of candidates at some point in the season, Excel pretty much handed him the opportunity he was looking for.

pacestick

Oct 31, 2005 @ 5:11 pm

I agree that Josh was most responsible. If this had been closer I think he would have left alone, even over Jen. Since it was so great it had to be more. If they all saw the iceberg coming and did not try to get out of the way, they should all go down with the ship not just Josh.

lawgal

Oct 31, 2005 @ 6:07 pm

If she'd known anything about baseball / softball, she'd have known the average player does not have a radar gun and doesn't want one.[/quote]

I've never even heard of non-professional baseball players needing radar guns. It was ridiculous to even think someone would buy this [though, since the store was selling them, there must be some market out there for them.]

I was surprised to not see any of the contestants interviewing Dick's people to get a feel for how different items in the store sell, which sales fluctuate, etc. Maybe they did it off camera, but that's the first thing I would have done, instead of just barging in there, building a batting cage, and moving the sales racks around. The people in the store presumably have some knowledge about how placement of the products affects sales.

Re: the quadruple firing: As they shuffled into the boardroom, I said to myself, "There seem to be too many people still there this far into the season." Well, Donald solved that problem in a hurry. I, too, wonder whether they planned far in advance to have a multiple firing if one team performed really badly [to have The Most Shocking Boardroom Ever!] or whether they allowed for two or three firings a couple of times depending on how things went. Either way, they definitely planned for at least one multiple firing, because they know exactly how many episodes they are going to air, and how many contestants they had left. It was not as if the producers would go, "Oh no, he fired 4 people, how will we get to the end of the season now?"

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.