TWoP Forums > 4-6: "Take Me Out To The Boardroom" 2005.10.27

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vicc1978

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:26 am

Man, it was priceless...

Is someybody knows when i can download the official preview of this episode? I'm so curious and i can't find it on the homepage.

bogtrotter

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:35 am

The fleeting look of fear in Trump's eyes, when Jennifer hissed that it would be a huge mistake to fire her, was hilarious - like a scene from Fatal Attraction.

And the sullen quartet squashed into the ShameWagon was priceless. Not even a colossal explosion of flatulence would have made the scene more uncomfortable-looking.

I can't wait until next week, for the opening segment where the survivors are all in the living room, licking their chops, speculating about who will walk in the front door.

P.S. Markus is quite the swordsman.

robinette

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:35 am

Good to see FireMarshallBill again.
I hope they edit in the crickets chirping next week while everyone waits in the suite for the others to return.

kacked

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:36 am

I think there is nothing lower than trashing an opponent that beat you fairly. So I was pretty happy that Josh got fired. I was also tired of him bitching about how bitchy Clay is.
As for the whole issue of whether or not it's ok to keep calling a gay guy a bitch, a bitch is a bitch whether it's a gay guy or the people who keep calling him one behind his back.
Seriously, I hated Josh.

Also I saw Bill in an airport last week and he was pushing his way to the front of the line to board like someone was trying to talk to him. It reminds me how much I love George and Caroline.

Hamhock96

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:36 am

I like Bill with a spine.
[/quote]

For more of Boyfriend Bill Being Brilliant and Ballsy, check out the extended boardroom scenes on Yahoo.

Hail Eris

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:37 am

Maybe they could have tried a promotion like buy an item over $50 and get to take some hits in the batting cage and receive personal instruction.[/quote]

I think they absolutely should have done something like this. In fact, I thought it would be kind of a no-brainer to make the batting cage like a "reward" for a purchase. Why didn't they do this? Has none of them shopped before?

clairedawn

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:38 am

I can't stand Felicia, but I thought she did a good job with the greet at the door from what they showed....also a nice touch to be dressed in the golf gear, although it did sort of look like tennis gear...

PinkyTuscadero

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:38 am

She can dominate the BR like no one else.[/quote]

I think Marshawn handles the boardroom far better than Rebecca. Using the word integrity over and over again didn't show me she has mad boardroom skills. If Jen W. had been less whiny and pathetic, Rebecca would have been hobbling her ass down to the cab.

hockeydude

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:39 am

First off, multiple words to everyone's postings... not much to add, except...
Great Googlie Mooglies.... firtst Hurricane Katrina, them Wilma, now Hurricane Donald. I hope the Red Cross and FEMA were nearby when the cab came to a stop. Obviously the mass execution was pre-planned to make the number of episodes for the season, but I wonder if His Hairness thought it would be a different four when he suggested the restructuring?
Choosing baseball as the focus of the project could have either been YOOGE or disaster, depending on the time of year. Spring or early summer, and yeah, sales are going to be great. Late summer or fall, not so much as the focus on sports changes. Golf was the obvious choice, along with camping or fishing. Lots of money spent spur-of-the-moment on various "stuff" in these activities. Baseball and/or soccer, there is a lot of money to be made, but not so much on impulse buys like golf... golfers are notorious for buying anyting that might help their game, or look cool.
I know the producers don't want to confuse us with facts or anything, but how were the percentages determined? I'm in suburban L.A. which I assume has a completely different marketing bent than New York, being that there are so many sporting outlets and specialty stores. Does Dick's really move that much golf equipment? If their normal sales are a starter set or two, some balls and a few clothing items, aa 74% increase is not unheard of with a golf-specific event. If they sell alot of baseball gear, Excel could have sold the store out and not have registered a big increase.
All that said, all 4 should have gone since there was no way any of them would win. Jen killed any chance she had with her near-crying meltdown 2 weeks in a row in front of the Ice Queen and the Biggest Chauvanist on the planet.

hengist

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:41 am

We didn't see the teams do any analysis of the "metric" used to grade this task. I don't know if TPTB just skipped that part, or if the teams didn't bother, but I suspect the latter.

It does make a difference. Comparing sales to average sales for the last month, or to the comparable week/month in the prior year are one thing, but comparing sales to average daily sales over the course of the last year makes it a really bad idea to choose a seasonal sport that isn't at the peak of its sales season. And I don't think that baseball was at its seasonal peak at the time they filmed this.

Also, the difference between golf/exercise and baseball/soccer: There are three ways to increase sales: 1) sell to someone who wasn't going to buy anything, 2) upgrade someone to a more expensive purchase, 3) sell more of the item than the person had originally intended to buy.

Baseball/Soccer don't have the same upsale potential that golf has, nor do they have the same potential for multiple sales. You can upgrade someone from one club to a (much more expensive) club, or from one club to three, but you aren't going to sell two bats to someone who needs one bat, and an expensive bat isn't that much more than a cheap bat.

This is why you can open the phone book and see individual stores devoted to golf/exercise equipment, but you won't find individual stores devoted to baseball/soccer equipment. And it's also why you'll find trained and knowledgable sales people in the golf/exercise stores, and minimum-wage high-schoolers in the generic sporting goods stores.

There is just far more that a good sales person can do with golf/exercise equipment than with the other sports mentioned.

So, IMO, the initial thoughtless choice of sports doomed Excel even before the poorly focused sales area got created. I don't credit Capital Edge much, either, because the decision seemed to be made in a seat-of-the-pants way, rather than being well thought-out, but I guess that good instinct is a better business skill than bad instinct.

By my calculations, they seem to be one person short to fill out the season now, so I figure they bring in Chewbacca to fill the slot. Too bad he can't perform, I would have liked to see him in the executive interviews at the end.

andrewd

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:42 am

I was wondering how much leeway does Trump have in how many people he can fire? Clearly, Mark Burnett has to supply NBC with X amount of episodes, so Trump can't go ahead and fire multiple people all the time, or they will run out of players and therefore episodes. This would imply that either it has been planned ahead to have a big firing or, in my opinion, he has a schedule which requires him to make a couple of multiple firings (maybe a couple of two person ones), or, in this case, a big four in one shot. As long as he doesn't go over the season total of multiple firings, he can handle it as he sees fit.

Anyway, that's just speculation. I agree with those that pointed out that Josh and Jen deserved the boot. (I couldn't stand Josh's exaggerated expressions). While he seems to be personable on a certain level, he also had a nasty conceited streak. Meanwhile, Jen had two high profile distasters in a row.

As for James and Mark, I don't blame them for the loss as they were simply carrying out orders. However, you want to see initiative and drive in a future executive and neither showed this. They had to be aware that the sales were not going that great, and if they weren't they should have been curious enough to find out. So, while I don't agree that they should have been fired from the point of view of this loss, I do agree that they showed they would not make it to the end, and the size of the loss required drastic measures.

lessa2010

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:45 am

When a couple of her fellows were complaining about her: 'She only looks at the big picture and the logistics only later on...', etc., I was thinking 'isn't that what she's supposed to do?' for each of their complaints.[/quote]

Reminds me of Kendra's approach, which worked for her everytime. It makes sense to me, figure out what the goal of the task is and then work back from there to make it happen. It keeps you from losing sight of the goal(ahem, batting cage).

Alla just has to keep doing that.

PinkyTuscadero

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:48 am

Here's another reason why I think this firing was pre-planned and staged.

Since when does Trump step in and tell the PM who to bring into the boardroom? If I were James and Mark I'd be PISSED. They were on the wrong team on the wrong task.

I think no matter which team lost, four people were getting canned.

TraceyBee

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:51 am

Buh bye Jenthura! "hot dogs"! "pretzels!" "get yer beer heeah!" Exactly what were her qualifications to be an apprentice, anyway??[/quote]
She was a pageant queen. That's all the qualification The Donald needs.

I don't know that I agree that all four of them really deserved to be fired more than, say, Markus, but it was worth it to see the Silent Cab Ride o' Shame.

Markus and the champagne bottle trick were utterly embarassing. First, if you're going to do the trick, take the wire cage off first. Second, don't do the trick at all, it wastes champagne. Besides, it makes you look like a tool.

If you consider that this is the first time that a team has actually made things worse for a client, I suppose it does qualify as the "worst defeat ever." Money-wise, there's no way we can know, because you can't compare the percentages without source data. It would be hard to beat the Bridal Boutique Blowout of Season 2, though.

JuliaCarpenter

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:53 am

It really disturbs me how easily these people use terms to describe Clay, that they never ever use on the heteros: Josh called him a "bitch" some time ago, and now one of the skinny blondes said "Clay's not a man, he's a bitchy woman times a thousand"

I do hate Clay with a passion, he is truly insufferable and he is bitchy, but the comments he ellicits from the others prove that homophobia is alive and kicking (not
that I had any doubt)

maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I don't remember any heterosexual man in any edition of the Apprentice ever being called a bitch or a bitchy woman, and in fact those comments have not only homophobic connotations but mysoginistic ones (A man is bitchy so he is immediately called a woman?)

lostcawz

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:53 am

I'm pretty sure it was Clay who complained about Alla's focusing on the big picture. Then they cut to a shot of Clay motioning towards the ceiling and saying something about a giant assed wall and ignoring someone who said something about how they would set up the wall. That cracked me up.

Hamhock96

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:54 am

Every season has had at least one re-cap show, and the ultimate winner goes for two shows, so it's no biggie for the schedule to throw out four at once. He's thrown out two at once several times. The poster that said why not get rid of the ones that everyone can plainly see will never make it right away had a good point. Eighteen candidates is too many; do an American Idol and take a lot and weed em out in front of you; then go with your best, maybe only six or eight and let them do more separate tasks, with teams made up of the ones let go. Change it up a bit and make it more interesting in terms of merit and ability and less about freaky.

The cab ride looks staged to me; almost everyone is trying not to giggle.

TheRealJanBrady

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:54 am

Oh, goodbye, sweet, sweet James. Am I the only one who thinks he's a dead ringer for onetime B-list teen actor Randall Batinkoff?

Agree that James and even Mark shouldn't have gone, but it was all worth it for that hilarious cab ride.

Bill, I wanted to love you all through the episode, but if you're going to perpetuate the Apprenti faux pas of repeating "step up to plate" ad nauseam, at least acknowledge the humor inherent in using such a phrase during A TASK ABOUT BASEBALL. I'd have respected you so much more if you'd said it on purpose and added a "no pun intended" for good measure. That would've been maybe the only possible excuse for driving that damned expression into the ground!

Peg Amy

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:58 am

Wow, this episode was delicious. I just couldn't help but root for the team of underdog weirdos (and Randal) and I was really pleased that they won. I have to say, I would have thought Josh could back up his tough talk with something, anything besides being one of the worst PMs ever. So sad. I think it's fine that Donald fired the lot of them not only because they all sucked, but because I think it sends the message that you can't just sit back, let the team fail, and blame the loss on a scapegoat. Putting some fear in the contestants might be a good thing.

Oh, goodbye, sweet, sweet James. Am I the only one who thinks he's a dead ringer for onetime B-list teen actor Randall Batinkoff?[/quote]
Thank you! I was wondering who he looked like. Totally Batinkoff.

By my calculations, they seem to be one person short to fill out the season now, so I figure they bring in Chewbacca to fill the slot. Too bad he can't perform, I would have liked to see him in the executive interviews at the end[/quote]
Chewbacca has great ideas but he can't express himself. I was glad Donald fired him. Luke Skywalker needs to go next, I am getting really sick of his whineterviews. Stop bitching and use the Force, Luke! God.

walkingguide

Oct 28, 2005 @ 10:59 am

All last night I wondered what Jen M sold that made her think she had sales skills. Finally read her bio - it was Yellow Pages ads, and now she does real estate development as well.

So, she sells ADS, that's an entirely different skill from selling retail. She won awards for building productive teams, but obviously those teams were doing something very different from Apprentice tasks. Last week with the float proved she had no presentation skills and was in desperate need of Toastmasters

tiggeril

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:01 am

By my calculations, they seem to be one person short to fill out the season now, so I figure they bring in Chewbacca to fill the slot. Too bad he can't perform, I would have liked to see him in the executive interviews at the end[/quote]

Interviewer: So, Mr. Bacca, what would you say is your biggest weakness?
Chewie: RAARUWURRURHGUGHWRURHGUH *flings chair out window*

BassetHound

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:08 am

Can someone post a link to the E!B!F! Because I can't find it.

CheekyCricket

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:07 am

Also, the difference between golf/exercise and baseball/soccer: There are three ways to increase sales: 1) sell to someone who wasn't going to buy anything, 2) upgrade someone to a more expensive purchase, 3) sell more of the item than the person had originally intended to buy.

Baseball/Soccer don't have the same upsale potential that golf has, nor do they have the same potential for multiple sales. You can upgrade someone from one club to a (much more expensive) club, or from one club to three, but you aren't going to sell two bats to someone who needs one bat, and an expensive bat isn't that much more than a cheap bat.[/quote] It's also unlikely that you're going to sell two soccer balls to someone who only needs one. You might be able to get them to upgrade to a better-quality ball, but if Capital Edge was targeting families, it might be tough to convince them that they need to buy a $50.00 ball for ten-year-old Johnnie or Joanie when a $25.00 ball will do.

Thanks, hengist, this is what I was trying to say but didn't have the vocabulary to express. Since season 4 was filming around the end of season 3, the task had to be filmed in mid-spring, perhaps late April or early May, right around when the golf and baseball seasons start picking up speed. The task dossier which is posted on the Yahoo! Apprentice site here (hit the link for "task" in the weekly summary) specifies that the teams had to choose from a "featured athletic category," and does not give any stipulations about what type of merchandise could be sold, so I assume they were free to sell anything in that category. There's no more information about how the
percentage change in revenue was determined, but I'm assuming it was determined by the Dick's staff. At any rate, both teams were being judged by the same standard.

The major problem is that Capital Edge lost sales in their featured category, regardless of how much they earned, or regardless of what their intentions were. And 34% measures up to a huge drop in sales. I was shocked that no one on the team, including Josh, appeared to be tracking their sales figures, although that should not be difficult to do in a computerized sales environment. And, on the dossier, it's specified that the teams must choose an accountant. Bozos . . .

ETA: Here's the link to the page with the extra boardroom footage, BassetHound.

sleazydinosaur

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:16 am

Markus is this season's Ivana[/quote]

At least he hasn't yanked down his pants during any of the tasks yet, but that would be hilarious.

It also would have been funny if Trump had Robin call up to the suite and had them send Markus down and made it a five person firing. They probably would have stuffed Markus in the trunk though.

I actually think Trump was about to fire Jen alone, but her defense sort of worked, she convinced him that the others deserved firing, but not anymore so than her.

Rodney

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:16 am

I have a question, though. I always had read that the exit scenes were taped in advance - the luggage to the cab. But obviously this wasn't. Are they really taped after the boardroom after all?[/quote]
Seasons 1 and 2's candidates taped their exit scenes in advance (except for Bradford's firing and Maria and Wes's double firing, which were taped on the spot). I think they did it their first night in the suite. Seasons 3 and 4's exit scenes are all done on the spot, though.

immutabilis

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:16 am

Does anyone know, were the Not Fantastic 4 on Today's show this morning?

Alla totally impressed. I can totally see her co-rule Manhattan with Trump. You take the East Side, I'll take the West Side.

When Jen M. started to get manic in the boardroom, I was really afraid she may jump over the desk and grab Trump by the neck. "Don't you see how pretty I am?! You CANNOT fire me, you CANNOT fire me!!! I am pretty and we don't get fired!"

Also, when Trump said "I cannot understand a word you say.." at the end (to the Chewsomething thing), for a split second I thought he was talking to Alla.

Rodney

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:22 am

Great stuff, but I was waiting for the line from the previews, something like "there's something missing in you." What was that about and who was it addressed to?[/quote]
They just used a clip from what he said to Elizabeth in season two.

Paradise

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:23 am

Alla is such a self righteous beeotch… I hope her and Clay tear each other new a-holes! They will provide much good TV in the weeks to come. Those two personalities on the same team… something will have to give.

The boardroom was great! I think Jen and Josh should have been fired, but the other two were kind of innocent bystanders. Trump just let lose and those two got caught in the crossfire. But when one team has the worst loss in the apprentice history… they should have expected to go down.

Glad to see Marshawn and gimpy Rebecca stay. This should really shake things up in the loft next week!

Culturemaven

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:25 am

Markus, you're such a doofus. That champagne thing was...why? Why would you waste a perfectly good bottle of champagne. If Napoleon did that, he was an idiot. You never waste alcohol.[/quote]

Well, Markus is a doofus, but I have seen this done and it can be impressive. Markus first screwed up by not taking the wire cage off the cork. Also, each time he tried to sabre the cork he shook the bottle. That's why it spewed out all over the place. When done correcly and the cork comes out on the first strike, not a drop of champagne is spilled.

According to the story I was told, back in Napoleon's day champagne bottles were expensive and were used over and over. Napoleon used his sword to open the bottle to prove he was above everyone else and didn't have to reuse the bottles.[/quote]
[/quote]

I can see doing it and NOT spilling the champagne, KathyF. I can see how that would be super impressive. It was the spraying of the champagne everywhere that made me sad. Champagne belongs in my mouth (and bloodstream). Thanks for explaining it, though.

But, we're agreed that Markus is a giant doofball.

Mollymorgan

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:31 am

It seems to me that the men in both tasks were focusing on the EVENT! and not on sales. For instance, Clay wanted to put a fence around their section to make it more exciting, but Alla didn't want to block of potential customers (good call, because when Sears used to have walls around certain parts of their tool/hardware section, I wouldn't maze my way through to get to it, I would just leave).

The original idea for the baseball diamond (stations at each base with items focusing on that part) seemed kind of stupid, too. What's the point of the baseball diamond other than decorative? They could have rented a sports simulator (http://www.amusitronix.com/Sports_Simulators.php) that would have taken up a fraction of the space. But increasing sales in Baseball would be difficult, to me. People come in to buy a bat and you sell them a glove? or batting gloves? or a batting helmet? People come in to buy a glove and you sell them that oil you use on the gloves?

Contracting with a baseball player (like the time they hired some football player to try out the Crest toothpaste) to sign balls and gloves and bats would help (or do they do that anymore?) because then people who came in for another sport, may go to the baseball section and buy a ball for the guy to sign.

Sarahfeena

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:37 am

Great stuff, but I was waiting for the line from the previews, something like "there's something missing in you." What was that about and who was it addressed to?[/quote] I thought this was totally bogus...I remember that line from from last season...they must have "borrowed" it.

Since golf equipment is a lot more expensive than baseball, and more adults play golf than baseball, I can see how the team got their asses kicked.[/quote] I figure that must be why they did it by % sales increase

It was good to see his involvement, but Bill needs to be corrected about one thing: James' problem wasn't that he "didn't step up to the plate" - it's that he *only* stepped up to the plate![/quote] Mr. Sarahfeena watched this with me (he doesn't usually watch it). He thought Bill was deliberately making a bad pun. I explained to him that we normally hear this expression about 1000 time an episode, and this time, it just happened to have a double meaning!

I was glad to see Jen go. She gets reduced to almost crying way too fast.[/quote] I gave her a pass on this last week. This week, I wished Martha was there to tell her that women in business do not cry, my dear.

Thought this was a great episode! It really showed off personalities...Markus the doofus, Alla the sharpshooter, etc. Great mass firing! I think a case could be made that the guys running the batting cage shouldn't have been fired, but I think that Bill's point was a good one...they all missed the point. None of them figured out how to tie the batting cage & the clinic in to a sales effort. How hard would it be to say to a dad..."Look at your kid swing that bat! He could be really good if he could practice like this at home!" It was the job of the sales force to do this, but it was the job of the whole team to figure out the angle & how the batting cage could work to their advantage. They got too off-track. If it had been a task that was judged ("who planned the best event/most buzz" like the toothpaste one from a couple seasons ago), they might have won. Bill was so right...they lost focus.

CheekyCricket

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:38 am

When Jen M. started to get manic in the boardroom, I was really afraid she may jump over the desk and grab Trump by the neck. "Don't you see how pretty I am?! You CANNOT fire me, you CANNOT fire me!!! I am pretty and we don't get fired!"[/quote]
Har! Unworthy of me, I know, but I was especially pleased to see her attempting to lie her way out of trouble. We all saw you hawking hotdogs and lemonade for the outside vendor, Jenthura. Bill saw you. How are you going to convince anyone that the vendor's stand only occupied 10 minutes of the team's time? I'm beginning to see the point in Kristi's remark about Jenthura's lying; of course, Kristi was just as bad. Lovely, the irony there . . .

Well, Markus is a doofus, but I have seen this done and it can be impressive. Markus first screwed up by not taking the wire cage off the cork. Also, each time he tried to sabre the cork he shook the bottle. That's why it spewed out all over the place. When done correcly and the cork comes out on the first strike, not a drop of champagne is spilled.

According to the story I was told, back in Napoleon's day champagne bottles were expensive and were used over and over. Napoleon used his sword to open the bottle to prove he was above everyone else and didn't have to reuse the bottles.
[/quote]
I've seen it done, too, but when I saw Markus take his first swipe, then stop to untwist the wire . . . well, that was another moment that especially tickled me. Hee hee hee! (Also, yes, all sorts of bottles were reused before improvements in manufacturing techniques made it cheaper and easier to mass-produce glass bottles, though I don't know if the business with the sword was connected to that, or just a way of showing off.)

toasterwaffle

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:39 am

Like everyone, I have to give a shout out to the cab ride. I was sad at the quadruple firing and I STILL laughed like a fiend when I saw those sad little faces all scrunched together.

And then, I don't know if I imagined this or not, but there is just this TINY moment in the cab where Jenthura maybe looks like she's gonna chat or bring about closure by making a few lighthearted comments, but then she sees James and checks herself.

Did I imagine that?

I didn't agree with the quadruple firing. Dude, they lost the task. A loss is a loss. Don't get your panties in a wad, Trump.

immutabilis

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:44 am

meepster

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:46 am

In spite of a wealth of material, I found the most idiotic idea of the night to be Rebecca's. The task was to increase sales of sports equipment. Golf presents many opportunities for sales. Rebecca suggested they focus on soccer. The equipment for that sport consists of - what? The ball?[/quote]

The ball - 3 sizes, different levels of quality
The shoes - indoor, outdoor
Goals - large, portable
Clothing - uniforms, warmups, memorabilia type
Shin guards
corner flags, line marking machines, cones
equipment bags - player and coach
soccer pals
rule books, strategy books, strategy videos, posters, .....

It's the most popular children's sport in the US today - baseball is actually in decline. It's played by both boys and girls, by adults, and by people of many ethnic backgrounds. All of which would point to a bigger potential pool of customers.

So, not such a bad suggestion from Rebecca. Of course, Mr. Baseball wouldn't have gotten to show off then.

Golf was a better choice for a sales task since the clubs are so expensive and you can never have enough.

Hilltop

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:48 am

Best.Apprentice.Episode.Ever! ALL of them deserved to be fired.

That was pretty awesome, but I don't think I agree with it - the two guys in the batting cage (I want to say Mark and ....Ryan? (as it turns out, James. I feel as though I should know more names by this point in the season.) shouldn't have been fired, I don't think. Sure, it was a sales task, but once they were assigned to work the batting cage, what were they supposed to do, tell the line of kids waiting that they weren't selling enough stuff and so they were going to have to shut it down?[/quote]

Not a good excuse. James and Mark could've asked to do some sales work so they could prove their worth to the team. A smart team would've decided to have the members take turns manning the batting cage so everyone would have a chance to do sales. But James and Mark were LAZY and only wanted to be in the batting cage and that's why they deserved to be fired.

When Bill went over to Mark in the batting cage and asked him how sales were doing, Mark just shrugged and acted uninterested. And Mark was the "genius" who was behind the "italian" idea in the Lamborghini task. The idiot deserved to go.

James deserved to be fired for his laziness and his absurd defense of Jen. He was thinking with his dick instead of his other head.

And wasn't it James (or Josh) who ordered a batting cage that was too large, which took a lot away from the selling space for the merchandise? Whoever approved the size of the batting cage should've been fired for that alone.

I loved this episode. It was brilliant. Now anyone who goes on The Apprentice won't feel safe because now they know mass firings can happen at any time.

Hamhock96

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:48 am

According to the story I was told, back in Napoleon's day champagne bottles were expensive and were used over and over. Napoleon used his sword to open the bottle to prove he was above everyone else and didn't have to reuse the bottles.

I've seen it done, too, but when I saw Markus take his first swipe, then stop to untwist the wire . . . well, that was another moment that especially tickled me. Hee hee hee! (Also, yes, all sorts of bottles were reused before improvements in manufacturing techniques made it cheaper and easier to mass-produce glass bottles, though I don't know if the business with the sword was connected to that, or just a way of showing off.) [/quote]

When I saw the top of the bottle pop off and the wine spray all over the place, I thought it must be an arrogant thing, like "watch me waste this bottle of wine because I'm rich and I can" and not an effort to serve the wine. So the posts on the knife/wine bottle thing have been most illiuminating. Did anyone see that huge knife flying backwards into Markus' face? I mean, I did...

heebiejeebie

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:49 am

I think Mark sealed his fate during his conversation with Bill in the cage. If he had something like "I'm concerned about sales, so I'm going to mention it to Josh or James," he might have gotten a reprieve. But he seemed to generate apathy for the actual task (selling). His boardroom defense was also weak, probably because he felt that Josh was going to give him a pass anyway.[/quote]

I am right there with you, Cheynem. I knew he was gone the instant he dismissed Bill so frivolously and had no real reason as to why he didn't help with sales. He and James sold a total of $0, AND this was a revenue generating task!! They clearly deserved the axe as much as Joshitface and Jenthura the Hulk.[/quote]

Actually I was thinking that Trump might have been going for a double fire. And sending Josh and Jen both back to the suite. He definitely was going for something shocking, that I'll grant. But the interview process allows him take as much deadwood into that episode as he wants knowing that he can use the decision of his underlings in whichever way he wants.

James screwed up majorily in my book. He came up with one event tied to baseball that really did not seem aimed at taking existing customers (after all, they relied solely on people already coming to Dicks -- we never saw any type of real publicity for either event did we? It was all walk-in trade). How does a batting cage realy increase sales. The task was to take people and convince them to buy when they were just looking but even more importantly as all people who work retail know -- build in those tie-ins. Multiple item sales are the best way to increase dept percentage.

So not only did James have a stupid idea, but his stupid idea cleared the salesfloor of most dept items necessary for multiple items sales. And while it might have been bigger than he thought? He was standing there with Josh when they did a sweep of floor with the construction guy. They both knew what they were taking off their area.

As stated above, not only was Mark's attitude flippant but it was delusional. In a task based on increasing the percentage of sales to give that answer was ludicrous. I tend to lean that Trump's shocker was really going to be sending Mark and James home. I really had a sense that Jen might have saved herself. Saved herself if she had been coherent and did not get so abrupt and angry. But she really went too far. Josh then compounding the idiocy by acting like a complete ass in the BR and by saying it was all about sales. when he managed an event that was nothing about sales. If sales dropped below the store's average, then it wasn't one person's sales skills that killed you Josh. And his refusal to see that and the incredibly childish way he pushed the issue guaranteed his fate.

But overall, I think James and Mark were doomed the minute Trump did the picking. I don't think either got the fact that they had done something wrong and I think Trump meant to shock them by showing exactly how wrong they were. James and Mark both did nothing. In a task that meant hands on interaction. Giving batting tips does not sell a thing if it is not tied to the merchandise. James, their expert, the brains behind the whole concept, actually went out of his way to marginalize himself to a useless position. And I know it is sexist, but it is also true. Mark and James are exactly the two guys that the boys and their parents we saw around the merchandise would buy from. Despite all the love shown Marshawn, I really don't see that she was much better than Jen. She was. But not much. Rebecca seems to have been the sales champ in turns of getting a sale that either might not have happened without her input or it was an upgrade (and perhaps this happened more than once -- Bill was impressed; but that's Bill). In any case, the argument for poor sales could have been averted by Jen had she been able to present a firm case. Josh could have eased his way out of it by saying he trusted his expert who then did nothing but relive his college glory days by telling kids how to hold their bats, but never told them why they should spend x amount of dollars on this bat over the other.

I think the cab was built for two and Josh and Jen went out of their way to hitch a ride. And it was such fun to watch.

Kazoo Zak

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:54 am

I'd have liked to see Trump say "If I had to fire 2 other people, who would you keep?"...and keeping the one who got the most votes.

Or having teammates(or Bill and Carolyn) vote yes/no who to fire. I'm surprised he didn't milk the TV possibilities more. But I did have fun watching the cab ride, thinking "C'mon, someone step up to the plate and SAY SOMETHING!"

But continuing in the critic vein I think it'd be cool to fire 2 people one week and then ominously state "this may happen again." It'd make for less butt-covering and ganging up on one person later. Unfortunately Trump seems to want whatever it is he wants, NOW.

The preview for the Star Wars episode seems to channel Whitney's frog suit from "Big Fat Obnoxious Boss."

As for soccer I remember foam soccer balls I used to love to kick around as a kid, lots of different colors, easy to kick hard. Hustle them in as something free with a purchase...great even for kids who aren't talented enough for first-team(something else I remember from way back when!)

And the poster upthread who mentioned home exercise equipment reminded me of JenM's workout in episode 3.

ZoeMc

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:56 am

Another sport they might have targeted is Tennis. It's played by all ages and both sexes, and unlike baseball or football or the more "macho" sports, every Dad in America doesn't think he's an expert, so it's easier to convince people they need pricier equipment (and most times they actually do need pricer equipment in order to compete).

Hilltop

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:57 am

And Rebecca, I don't get what is so great about her. Trumps keeps saying people say great things of her, but who are those people and when do they say great things about Rebecca? Is it on a private phone to Trump? [/quote]

Rebecca was singled out in this episode as being one of the best sales people for her team. She has also been praised in other tasks for her good interaction with customers and for being a hard worker. I also think it's impressed people that she hasn't whined and complained about being on crutches for most of this interview process. (Can you imagine the DRAMA if someone like Omarosa ended up in crutches on this show?) As for the positive feedback about Rebecca that Trump is hearing, it's probably from Carolyn, George and/or Bill.

I'm very doubtful that Rebecca will win though because her loyalty to Toral will be used against her. Even though Rebecca eventually changed her mind about Toral, her stubborn support of Toral showed how Rebecca can be naive and not a good judge of character. Rebecca also let her personal feelings about Toral interfere with her business decisions, and that's not something that Trump respects.

dsuggs

Oct 28, 2005 @ 11:57 am

That was an awesome boardroom. This was the first time all season I felt Trump made an actual business decision. They all suck. You don't want any of them. So stop wasting your time and get rid of all of them! I admired him tonight, for once.[/quote]
Preach it. I don't know if it was a ratings stunt, but I agree with all four firings. I'm probably naive, but I felt Trump looked at all four of them and said "no way am I going to let these sales losers go any further." It's one thing to go over budget or fail to complete a task and quite another to lose revenue. Josh managed this disaster, Jen set herself up with her talk of selling radar guns only to sell less than a women on crutches, James got caught up in his "field of dreams" fantasy, and Mark didn't sell a single thing (they could have taken turns at the pitching machine).

I have to wonder if Jen had been able to move one radar gun, how much that would have increased the sale's percentage in that area.

I loved Carolyn pointing out that the kid playing on the putting green really needed a putter instead of a wedge.[/quote]
I thought Capital Edge's babysitting service was brilliant. Parents being able to shop in peace? Priceless.

And the Chewbacca boardroom ad was hysterical. What a way to end an awesome episode.

BassetHound

Oct 28, 2005 @ 12:00 pm

A couple interesting points from the E!B!F! (thanks to CheekyCricket for the link).

1. Most of the team supported Jen going over Josh.

2. Bill was tough as hell on all of them.

3. Josh admitted that they should have only let people bat after they made a purchase.

4. Several team members were concerned over safety issues with the batting cages.

5. Trump really, really likes Rebecca, to the point of almost flirtation, and she handles him perfectly by being nice, but not flirting back like Erin last season.

So, I think Jennifer made a lot of sense with the "not being given a good opportunity" thing.[/quote]I thought she sealed her doom with that remark. If she's a sales queen, she should be able to sell, sell, sell regardless of the environment. Someone good at sales creates those opportunities.[/quote]ITA. Jen was basically joking/bragging when she was talking about the radar guns, but the reality is, salepeople sell. That's what they do. No matter what, where when or how, you have to sell. I mean, that's the name of the game. It's very numbers-oriented, botton-line oriented and cut-throat. There are no excuses, especially when Rebecca, Marshawn and what's his name all out-sold her.

Gringa

Oct 28, 2005 @ 12:07 pm

That idiot Jennifer should have been fired last week, so I was delighted to see her losing her shit in the boardroom. Although, I have to say, as a woman who works in a tough business, I was relieved to see that she didn't actually cry. She was close, but she held it back. And that's about all the positive I can muster for her.

It was done with a sword, not a Henckel, asshole.[/quote]

Ha! This is absolutely correct. It was also NOT followed by a spazzy shaking of the bottle.

Markus is so socially awkward, it's getting hard to watch.

Obleek

Oct 28, 2005 @ 12:08 pm

I didn't see it coming either. And the humiliation of being stuffed into the taxi en masse - bwa!!!

Did all four deserved to be fired - yes! IMO, everyone on a team should be active in trying to win the task. Some teams will have individuals who "step up", "rise to the occasion", etc. Like Bill, Amy, Kelly and Kendra. No matter who the PM is and how they are doing, these individuals will do everything they can to win and do their best.

Otherwise you have all these lazy schmoes who do only as they're explicitly told, don't stick their necks out, and lay back like observers rather than participants. (Or stand there with his thumb up his butt, in the case of Markus). They are not executive material.

One thing I have to say for Clay - he didn't do that. He is proactive and pushes to make things better, even if he is the bitchiest bitch that ever annoyingly bitched!

LLalltheway

Oct 28, 2005 @ 12:24 pm

FWIW, in NYC you can usually only have three adult passengers in the back seat of a cab.

RubyintheRough

Oct 28, 2005 @ 12:26 pm

I agree with many of the posters that this firing is up there with Assorama and Wes/Blinky, but what about Tiny Stacy? Sometimes when I have a bad day at work I come home and read her firing because it always makes me laugh until I cry. Somebody put a doggie costume on her. I hated her way more than Jenthura.

Add me to the list of people who has no desire ever to see Kelly "The Waterboy" Perdew come back on this show in any capacity (especially as a NotGeorge). I would, however, love to see Kendra come back. She was the only competent contestant from her season, and she's at least equal to Bill in my book. I posted in the spoiler thread a sighting of a possible reward that had two Apprenti dining with Bill and Kendra. So we will get to see her!

CheekyCricket

Oct 28, 2005 @ 12:29 pm

What is it with Marshawn? She constantly delivers these very well worded critiques of her colleagues. Does she have anything positive to say? I have yet to see her make some major contribution. Now that I've seen Alla PM, and think back to Marshawn's task, it looks like Alla probably deserves a big part of that victory.

And Rebecca, I don't get what is so great about her. Trumps keeps saying people say great things of her, but who are those people and when do they say great things about Rebecca? Is it on a private phone to Trump?

And when Rebecca said something about "intelligent people" (unlike the cootie-infested idiots on the other team)[/quote]
Ooh, I missed that remark. I'm sorry to hear that she said something so snooty.

I agree to a point about Marshawn: she's good at delivering critiques, but she tends to work around the problems rather than taking positive steps to improve them. This is why I remarked earlier that she needs to show more leadership. She was smart to delegate the Lamborghini commercial to Alla, or at least I'm willing to believe that she determined that Alla was the best team member for the job. She's also good on thinking on her feet. But I sense a certain passiveness in her, or maybe a tendency to stand back and evaluate, and though that may help her immensely as an attorney, it won't help her in a top management role.

Rebecca has demonstrated that she's determined and articulate, and that's she's a good team worker, but I'm still waiting to see some glimmering of leadership ability in her too. She did okay in her turn as a PM, but only okay, in my estimate. She doesn't seem to know how to manage others, but then again, she has a limited amount of work experience, and as she gains more experience, she'll likely improve.

One thing I have to say for Clay - he didn't do that. He is proactive and pushes to make things better, even if he is the bitchiest bitch that ever annoyingly bitched![/quote]
I give him credit for that too--he has the proactive side that Marshawn and Rebecca seem to lack--though I still think he's better off being his own boss.

intrepide

Oct 28, 2005 @ 12:30 pm

Question: What's the Chewbacca business? Was it an ad? What happened in it?

The cabride to the suite of losers? Hilarious. Only improvement would have been for one of them to mimic Wes, "I would've at least liked my own cab."

This task was won when the team realized none of them had any sports expertise. They had nothin' to prove about their sports prowess, and they could think like sales people. [/quote]
indigotea I think you're absolutely right. I was thinking that not knowing anything about a task is an advantage over knowing something about it. Knowing nothing, and knowing that you know nothing provides tremendous power to ask questions and to discern and focus on what's important; knowing a little and thinking you know a lot affords delusions.

Playing a sport in college or even at a professional level doesn't prepare you for selling the gear in a retail environment, anymore than it would for selling the advertising spots during televised games. Not knowing about sport allowed Capital Edge to focus on the business. The sole reason for a sporting goods store to exist is to make money.

The real estate developers (?) Brian-S3 and Raj-S2 tanked the renovation tasks with their expertise--only general contractors or interior designers have the actual real world expertise to turn out a residential renovation. Our boy Troy--a mortgage broker, tangential to real estate development and renovation--did okay though, didn't he?

The only time someone's previous knowledge was an advantage was the bridal task in S2--selling wedding gowns and accessories was Sandy's bread and butter.

Edited to quote Miss Alli: Next week: ... How many can we get rid of this time?

BassetHound

Oct 28, 2005 @ 12:30 pm

What is it with Marshawn? She constantly delivers these very well worded critiques of her colleagues. Does she have anything positive to say? I have yet to see her make some major contribution.[/quote]In the E!B!F! she did have some positive things to say about Josh as PM. Also, everyone thought she did a good job with sales.

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