One thing I'll say for Toral: she is freaking gorgeous. Easily the most attractive woman on four seasons of TA (and TAM), by my lights. If she hadn't been so hideous as a person I would have been happy to keep seeing her on my television until the end of the season.[/quote]
I do have to agree with that. The reason I pre-loved her was simpy because I thought she was hot. But even that can't hide the fact that she was an evil bitch. Same with Jenn M. Version 1.0. Attractive, but evil... at least to me.
I do have to agree with that. The reason I pre-loved her was simpy because I thought she was hot. But even that can't hide the fact that she was an evil bitch. Same with Jenn M. Version 1.0. Attractive, but evil... at least to me.
Harpies, morons, bitches (Clay), illiterates (Mark), airheads (Markus) and snarks (Josh)... just who are we supposed to root for here? The really, really short guy we haven't heard from yet?[/quote]
According to the editing, I'm guessing we are suppose to ever root for the woman with a broken foot, or the guy with the dead grandmother. I do like Randal, but that's about it. I still barely know who half of these people are.
According to the editing, I'm guessing we are suppose to ever root for the woman with a broken foot, or the guy with the dead grandmother. I do like Randal, but that's about it. I still barely know who half of these people are.
You know, the funny thing is if Toral had won, Felisha or some of the others could have been fired.
I think Trump is willing to cut her some slack because of her Wharton education. And she may have designated some of the tasks that same way that they played out.
In that case, she could have made valid arguments for Felisha or Kristi to be fired ... if she could only control her vitriolic explosions.
I think Trump is willing to cut her some slack because of her Wharton education. And she may have designated some of the tasks that same way that they played out.
In that case, she could have made valid arguments for Felisha or Kristi to be fired ... if she could only control her vitriolic explosions.
I rewatched the episode. I still have to give props in general to Jen M. I liked when she gave some supportive words to Rebecca, and how she didn't quite follow the party line re the reason they lost the task. Will be interesting to see her as PM.
I was struck anew by the women's failure to put the DQ name or logo on the mascot. It's such an obvious necessity. Why do these people consistently perform so poorly at fairly easy tasks? I liked the way Marshawn in the BR said there was really no answer for it.
We have had a few wannabes in past seasons who were not particularly attractive. Bren comes to mind and I am sure there are others. But their criteria for wannabes appears to be skewed toward the physically attractive.
I was struck anew by the women's failure to put the DQ name or logo on the mascot. It's such an obvious necessity. Why do these people consistently perform so poorly at fairly easy tasks? I liked the way Marshawn in the BR said there was really no answer for it.
We have had a few wannabes in past seasons who were not particularly attractive. Bren comes to mind and I am sure there are others. But their criteria for wannabes appears to be skewed toward the physically attractive.
Not that this comes as a particular surprise, but Trump's firings have absolutely no pattern. In episode 2, Markus did a totally crappy job, but wasn't the reason they lost, so Trump didn't fire him. In this episode, Toral did a totally crappy job, but wasn't the reason they lost, but Trump did fire her.
One thing I kept thinking about was one of her other excuses was that she would embarass her employers. Uh... I thought that the idea of the show was that she would be employed by Donald Trump.[/quote]
What Eirik said!
What Eirik said!
Trump's firings have absolutely no pattern. In episode 2, Markus did a totally crappy job, but wasn't the reason they lost, so Trump didn't fire him. In this episode, Toral did a totally crappy job, but wasn't the reason they lost, but Trump did fire her.[/quote]
They're not random. Chris was part of the reason they lost (as PM) and refused to bring Mark in because he wanted Markus to be fired and figured he'd force Trump's hand. The man negotiates multi-million dollar real estate deals and you're going to play him with a bait and switch over Markus? Chris was an idiot.
Toral deserved to be fired last week, but was protected by her friend, Rebecca. Since she was put on notice last week, her behavior this week should have been above reproach (witness Markus' semi-rehabilitation after his brush with death). Toral was fired because she deserved it AND because there really was no better target for this week's Wrath of Trump.
edited because if your handle is "Grammarian" your grammar should be better than average.
They're not random. Chris was part of the reason they lost (as PM) and refused to bring Mark in because he wanted Markus to be fired and figured he'd force Trump's hand. The man negotiates multi-million dollar real estate deals and you're going to play him with a bait and switch over Markus? Chris was an idiot.
Toral deserved to be fired last week, but was protected by her friend, Rebecca. Since she was put on notice last week, her behavior this week should have been above reproach (witness Markus' semi-rehabilitation after his brush with death). Toral was fired because she deserved it AND because there really was no better target for this week's Wrath of Trump.
edited because if your handle is "Grammarian" your grammar should be better than average.
Was just thinking about the guys giving Clay the exemption. I wonder if it would have been different if Trump had been there in person instead of on the phone. It would have been *very* awkward for any of the guys to break the silence and yell into the speakerphone "I don't think he should get it, Mr. Trump!" I agree with whoever said it also may have gone differently if Trump had asked "Should Clay get the exemption" and there might have just been silence.[/quote]
A silence would have been followed by Trump asking them again, telling them not to waste his time.
These are grown men, they already saw one woman speak her mind about an exemption without facing any negative consequences. I think if they felt Clay was not worth exemption they would have said so. If they are all so weak that they can't speak their minds because of a few word changes, then I hope Trump fires all of them and replaces them with people who have a mind of their own.
When I watched the Yahoo footage and saw-heard that horrible, putrid song, I was relieved Clay had enough sense to put his foot down. The other team fared so poorly Excel may have won even w/the showtune reject, but the win would have been much closer. And if Excel had lost they would have put all the blame on Clay (Joshit and a few others were licking their chops), even though the jingle was so hideous to the ears.
A silence would have been followed by Trump asking them again, telling them not to waste his time.
These are grown men, they already saw one woman speak her mind about an exemption without facing any negative consequences. I think if they felt Clay was not worth exemption they would have said so. If they are all so weak that they can't speak their minds because of a few word changes, then I hope Trump fires all of them and replaces them with people who have a mind of their own.
When I watched the Yahoo footage and saw-heard that horrible, putrid song, I was relieved Clay had enough sense to put his foot down. The other team fared so poorly Excel may have won even w/the showtune reject, but the win would have been much closer. And if Excel had lost they would have put all the blame on Clay (Joshit and a few others were licking their chops), even though the jingle was so hideous to the ears.
Markus is kind of a freak, but his strategy is certainly not to do nothing until his "inferior" teammates implode. Toral was actively rooting for her team to fail and she has openly displayed contempt for them. Rebecca was dead on. The team would not work with Toral on it.
I have to agree with those who don't think Kristi, Alla, and Felisha are the Coven Part Two. I just don't see them as being like The Heathers. IMO, Rebecca is the most beautiful of the group and she is also the youngest. Toral has by far the most prestigious degree and she is also very beautiful (physically). She has even been in a Bollywood film. Marshawn is the most successful beauty queen; she was third runner up in Miss America. Jen M. is the blonde that seems to be part of that group the least and she is the other beauty queen.
On the other hand, Kristi had a daughter at 16, Alla is a Russian immigrant, and Felisha is (IMO) the plainest lookswise. The three of them do seem like BFF and they whine way too much. Neither Kristi nor Felisha was a good PM. But I don't think this is the pretty blonde popular girls against the brainy plain brunettes. And the team had every right to dislike Toral after she told them that she was half assing it deliberately. Imagine what the guys would have said if Markus told them he was deliberately sabotaging the team. I think they would have eaten him alive, starting with his hair.
Felisha should have let the costume thing go much sooner, but if Toral could look at good old boy Mark dressed as the Genie and think that dressing as Zip was degrading...then I have no words.
I have to agree with those who don't think Kristi, Alla, and Felisha are the Coven Part Two. I just don't see them as being like The Heathers. IMO, Rebecca is the most beautiful of the group and she is also the youngest. Toral has by far the most prestigious degree and she is also very beautiful (physically). She has even been in a Bollywood film. Marshawn is the most successful beauty queen; she was third runner up in Miss America. Jen M. is the blonde that seems to be part of that group the least and she is the other beauty queen.
On the other hand, Kristi had a daughter at 16, Alla is a Russian immigrant, and Felisha is (IMO) the plainest lookswise. The three of them do seem like BFF and they whine way too much. Neither Kristi nor Felisha was a good PM. But I don't think this is the pretty blonde popular girls against the brainy plain brunettes. And the team had every right to dislike Toral after she told them that she was half assing it deliberately. Imagine what the guys would have said if Markus told them he was deliberately sabotaging the team. I think they would have eaten him alive, starting with his hair.
Felisha should have let the costume thing go much sooner, but if Toral could look at good old boy Mark dressed as the Genie and think that dressing as Zip was degrading...then I have no words.
In [Toral’s exit interview] she states her opinion of Trump (very degrading) and how she is glad she is rid of the whole business. Well, why did she apply if Donald and being on the show is beneath her? There must have been many interviews in order to be chosen, and now all of a sudden she has no use for any it. Classic sour grapes issue.[/quote]
I bet the show’s being beneath her and the sour grapes won’t stop her from coming back to torment us and one of the Final Two later in the season. Any takers?
I bet the show’s being beneath her and the sour grapes won’t stop her from coming back to torment us and one of the Final Two later in the season. Any takers?
It would have been interesting if Toral had come back with, "Now you need to stop telling half-truths. I saw that episode of SNL and you did not wear a chicken costume. You wore a yellow business suit. You had four people dancing around you in chicken costumes." That would have brought the funny and/or a quicker firing.[/quote]
He wore the costume for the show's closing, so it was just a few seconds when most viewers weren't paying much attention.
He wore the costume for the show's closing, so it was just a few seconds when most viewers weren't paying much attention.
I have to agree with those who don't think Kristi, Alla, and Felisha are the Coven Part Two....[snip] I don't think this is the pretty blonde popular girls against the brainy plain brunettes. And the team had every right to dislike Toral after she told them that she was half assing it deliberately. Imagine what the guys would have said if Markus told them he was deliberately sabotaging the team. I think they would have eaten him alive, starting with his hair.[/quote]
So much word, Peg Amy! I think some people are starting to lump all of The Blondes ™ together and I just don't think it's fair. The only 2 people on the women's side I see as ineffective and definitely not Final Four material are Kristi and Felisha. I find Jen M. and Alla to be very intelligent, practical, and productive. Alla did a great job taking charge on the car project and Jen M. did well in both the older people technology campaign and had the key suggestion for a mascot DQ logo (which everyone ignored, much to their detriment). I think it's borderline insulting that Alla and Jen M. get lumped in with Kristi and Felisha due to having the same hair color and being somewhat more gregarious.
Most of my favorite candidates on the show this season are women. I think this is one of the strongest women's cast in a long time. Marshawn, Rebecca, Alla, and Jen M. are all very good. I think Rebecca could very well win this thing, same with Marshawn. I think we will definitely see 2, or possibly even 3 women in the final four. Toral definitely had the educational and work background to be in this thing to the end, too bad her personality achieved levels of suckage that defy mere words. Yes, Felisha would have been fired, deservedly so, for being the reason they lost this task. But in the succinct words of Rebecca (or Posh Spice, as I like to call her), this team was simply not going to work with Toral on it, plain and simple. When you act like every task is beneath you, why bother to come on the show? I have nothing but contempt for Toral.
And I am so glad someone remembered Izzy from the Barcelona 1996 Olympic Games, because that is the FIRST thing I thought of when I saw Zip. I thought Zip was actually a better mascot than Transgendered Drag Queen Jennie the Genie, much less objectionable, but he was aimed at 5-year olds, not teenagers.
I must ask - who was the Yankees fan? I'm now actively rooting for his elimination. Yay, Minky & David "Waiting for Mr." Wright!
On another note - wow, Marcus hasn't been disturbingly stupid in 2 whole episodes. What is going on?!?!
So much word, Peg Amy! I think some people are starting to lump all of The Blondes ™ together and I just don't think it's fair. The only 2 people on the women's side I see as ineffective and definitely not Final Four material are Kristi and Felisha. I find Jen M. and Alla to be very intelligent, practical, and productive. Alla did a great job taking charge on the car project and Jen M. did well in both the older people technology campaign and had the key suggestion for a mascot DQ logo (which everyone ignored, much to their detriment). I think it's borderline insulting that Alla and Jen M. get lumped in with Kristi and Felisha due to having the same hair color and being somewhat more gregarious.
Most of my favorite candidates on the show this season are women. I think this is one of the strongest women's cast in a long time. Marshawn, Rebecca, Alla, and Jen M. are all very good. I think Rebecca could very well win this thing, same with Marshawn. I think we will definitely see 2, or possibly even 3 women in the final four. Toral definitely had the educational and work background to be in this thing to the end, too bad her personality achieved levels of suckage that defy mere words. Yes, Felisha would have been fired, deservedly so, for being the reason they lost this task. But in the succinct words of Rebecca (or Posh Spice, as I like to call her), this team was simply not going to work with Toral on it, plain and simple. When you act like every task is beneath you, why bother to come on the show? I have nothing but contempt for Toral.
And I am so glad someone remembered Izzy from the Barcelona 1996 Olympic Games, because that is the FIRST thing I thought of when I saw Zip. I thought Zip was actually a better mascot than Transgendered Drag Queen Jennie the Genie, much less objectionable, but he was aimed at 5-year olds, not teenagers.
I must ask - who was the Yankees fan? I'm now actively rooting for his elimination. Yay, Minky & David "Waiting for Mr." Wright!
On another note - wow, Marcus hasn't been disturbingly stupid in 2 whole episodes. What is going on?!?!
What really bugs me, is the way the women harasses Toral over the costume thing.
Felisha (?) asked her to wear, she said no, that should've been end of story.
But then she (Felisha) decides to order Toral to wear it, fair enough, as PM she's Toral's "Boss" and has that perogative. But then she didn't do it, then the three women ganged up on Toral and were SCREAMING at her to don the Zip Suit where she, again, said no.
She said she had personal reasons against wearing the suit and didn't want to do it, they should've dropped it there. There was no call to gang up and tell at her.
Toral's biggest problem was not, excuse me, "stepping up" and being PM and her handling of the Boardroom.
"Know what? I agree, I should've stepped up and made a bigger fight to be PM."
She wasn't why the lost, but she wasn't certainly worthy of being kept.
Felisha (?) asked her to wear, she said no, that should've been end of story.
But then she (Felisha) decides to order Toral to wear it, fair enough, as PM she's Toral's "Boss" and has that perogative. But then she didn't do it, then the three women ganged up on Toral and were SCREAMING at her to don the Zip Suit where she, again, said no.
She said she had personal reasons against wearing the suit and didn't want to do it, they should've dropped it there. There was no call to gang up and tell at her.
Toral's biggest problem was not, excuse me, "stepping up" and being PM and her handling of the Boardroom.
"Know what? I agree, I should've stepped up and made a bigger fight to be PM."
She wasn't why the lost, but she wasn't certainly worthy of being kept.
I think it's borderline insulting that Alla and Jen M. get lumped in with Kristi and Felisha due to having the same hair color and being somewhat more gregarious.[/quote]
I've been speaking up quite a bit for Jen M, myself, but to be fair, I think the reason that many folks here are lumping the blondes together is because they hang out together like a sorority clique. With Kristi as its most obnoxious leader, IMO. Alla doesn't impress me, either. Jen M, save yourself!
I've been speaking up quite a bit for Jen M, myself, but to be fair, I think the reason that many folks here are lumping the blondes together is because they hang out together like a sorority clique. With Kristi as its most obnoxious leader, IMO. Alla doesn't impress me, either. Jen M, save yourself!
Can't we have candidates on TA/TAM who are overweight, underweight, plain?[/quote]
We won't be seeing the general public anytime shortly. And maybe we shouldn't. I remember all the comments about Heidi in The Apprentice 1. How ugly she was. What a dog she was etc etc. She wasn't gorgeous but so what? She was judged on her appearance and found wanting by the viewing audience. Bowie didn't come in for quite as much flak, but then he wasn't around as long as Heidi.
TV likes 'em slender and beautiful and so do the viewers, I guess. It's a chastening thought.
We won't be seeing the general public anytime shortly. And maybe we shouldn't. I remember all the comments about Heidi in The Apprentice 1. How ugly she was. What a dog she was etc etc. She wasn't gorgeous but so what? She was judged on her appearance and found wanting by the viewing audience. Bowie didn't come in for quite as much flak, but then he wasn't around as long as Heidi.
TV likes 'em slender and beautiful and so do the viewers, I guess. It's a chastening thought.
Trump definitely wore the chicken suit at one point on the SNL appearance. Then at another point he was wearing the yellow business suit surrounded by other people in chicken suits. There's got to be a photo out there somewhere...
You know your ideas suck when you lose to what is quite possibly the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life. That genie was like knee-surgery with sprinkly eyes.[/quote]
ITA. Both those "mascots" were the SCARIEST THINGS I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE (TM Smeagol, TA2). Have none of these people ever seen X Men--couldn't they have drawn inspiration from Storm? Or the winter Olympics are only a few months away--how about a snowboarder, skier, or skater-type super hero, who's such a fierce athlete, the snow turns to "Blizzards" whenever they touch it. Tie it in to the Olympics, somehow--anything other than those hokey 1950s style mascnots.
And did anyone else have a BWAH! moment when the DQ exec told The Donald, "Capital Edge gave us Zip," i.e., they didn't give us *@#%! Didn't those idiots know that zip is also a synonym for zero? Who would choose that for a brand name?
Nope, I have to admit that as horrible as Toral was, she wasn't the real reason Capital Edge lost this task.
ITA. Both those "mascots" were the SCARIEST THINGS I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE (TM Smeagol, TA2). Have none of these people ever seen X Men--couldn't they have drawn inspiration from Storm? Or the winter Olympics are only a few months away--how about a snowboarder, skier, or skater-type super hero, who's such a fierce athlete, the snow turns to "Blizzards" whenever they touch it. Tie it in to the Olympics, somehow--anything other than those hokey 1950s style mascnots.
And did anyone else have a BWAH! moment when the DQ exec told The Donald, "Capital Edge gave us Zip," i.e., they didn't give us *@#%! Didn't those idiots know that zip is also a synonym for zero? Who would choose that for a brand name?
Nope, I have to admit that as horrible as Toral was, she wasn't the real reason Capital Edge lost this task.
Just when I thought that Rebecca had gained back some of her respect, I watched the Yahoo BF "CE know Zip about branding". She really disappointed me. It would appear that she still was attempting to "protect" Toral at the beginning of the boardroom session and say that it was a "failure of leadership". While I do agree that Felisha was not a great PM, they did complete the task in the allowed timeframe and they had a mascot. (Don't throw anything. I didn't say it was a good one, just that they had one to present. It looked much better on paper.) I enjoyed Alla's smackdown of Rebecca trying to rewrite the history of the project. Marshawn seems to be the only voice of reason on the team. Also....gotta love George & Carolyn!
What is the link for this yahoo site with extra footage?
http://apprentice.tv.yahoo.com/trump/04/index.html Here ya go, Pundit.
I also found it interesting, when asked how "Zip" would appeal to teens and older kids, her response was because kids and adults love gadgets.
WTF?
So people would be like, "Zip is so cool! He has that fire-house blizzard making backpack!"
LOVED how no one ever had an answer when asked why they didn't put the Corprorate Logo on the character.
WTF?
So people would be like, "Zip is so cool! He has that fire-house blizzard making backpack!"
LOVED how no one ever had an answer when asked why they didn't put the Corprorate Logo on the character.
Leno just did a bit with modified footage from Toral's firing--They had her falling into the elevator shaft, complete with scream. It was rather enjoyable.
LOVED how no one ever had an answer when asked why they didn't put the Corprorate Logo on the character.[/quote]
Right. Product branding wasn't important. Having Toral wear the costume was.
All they had to do is strategically place the DQ logo somewhere on ZIP and have an articulate person (i.e., Marshawn or Rebecca) present.
Right. Product branding wasn't important. Having Toral wear the costume was.
All they had to do is strategically place the DQ logo somewhere on ZIP and have an articulate person (i.e., Marshawn or Rebecca) present.
Another reason to hate Toral? She wears colored contact lenses. It seems to me that a self-proclaimed "woman of stature and respect" wouldn't run around wearing a cheap way to try to make herself look less Indian. And yes, I know there are Indians with colored eyes, and colored eyes are beautiful on people who actually, erm, have them, as opposed to buying them. It just looks self-loathing, IMO.
Also, on the subject of shallow reasons to scorn the Apprenti, can someone please get Felisha "Manual Noriega" Covenbitch a facial peel or some acne medication? Or, failing that, a ski mask?
Okay, when the women were packing to go into the boardroom? Who was wearing the bondage-looking stiletto heels? Who? I must know.
Also, on the subject of shallow reasons to scorn the Apprenti, can someone please get Felisha "Manual Noriega" Covenbitch a facial peel or some acne medication? Or, failing that, a ski mask?
Okay, when the women were packing to go into the boardroom? Who was wearing the bondage-looking stiletto heels? Who? I must know.
Exactly. This is why the blonde Coven is more hateful than Toral. Also, at one point during the "STEP UP" haranging of Toral, they turned to Rebecca and said, "She's not worth it." Meaning that they would accept her back into the club if she would renounce her association with the disgusting one and join them in their Mean Girl schtick.[/quote]
That's so true, Jeebus. The way Rebecca engineered a convenient and "honorable" way to flip on Toral like that was pure genius. She simultaneously sent Toral up the river (deservedly!) and came off looking like the Virgin Mary. I think the Heathers realized they'd rather have Rebecca on their side.
James is a hottie bombottie. He looks a little like a dark-haired version of Matthew McConaughey mixed in with the teensiest bit of Boyfriend Bill.
One of my favorite lines in the episode was when Josh said Clay was "somewhere between Napoleon and Hitler." So Clay was...Bismarck?
Clay is an ass, but his method of managing the testosterone-ridden circle-jerking men's team was hilariously appropriate. He decided that the Frats would best respond to some whipping and paddling, and lo and behold, they're all Sigma Chi frosh rush- "please, sir, may I have another!" Well played.
That's so true, Jeebus. The way Rebecca engineered a convenient and "honorable" way to flip on Toral like that was pure genius. She simultaneously sent Toral up the river (deservedly!) and came off looking like the Virgin Mary. I think the Heathers realized they'd rather have Rebecca on their side.
James is a hottie bombottie. He looks a little like a dark-haired version of Matthew McConaughey mixed in with the teensiest bit of Boyfriend Bill.
One of my favorite lines in the episode was when Josh said Clay was "somewhere between Napoleon and Hitler." So Clay was...Bismarck?
Clay is an ass, but his method of managing the testosterone-ridden circle-jerking men's team was hilariously appropriate. He decided that the Frats would best respond to some whipping and paddling, and lo and behold, they're all Sigma Chi frosh rush- "please, sir, may I have another!" Well played.
Another reason to hate Toral? She wears colored contact lenses. It seems to me that a self-proclaimed "woman of stature and respect" wouldn't run around wearing a cheap way to try to make herself look less Indian. And yes, I know there are Indians with colored eyes, and colored eyes are beautiful on people who actually, erm, have them, as opposed to buying them. It just looks self-loathing, IMO[/quote].
You're joking, right?
Thanks, Tiggeril.
You're joking, right?
Thanks, Tiggeril.
Okay, when the women were packing to go into the boardroom? Who was wearing the bondage-looking stiletto heels? Who? I must know.
[/quote]
I was trying to figure that out myself as I watched the CNBC repeat. It's not clear. My money's on Alla, though.
So, let's see if I have Toral's BR strategy correct: bitch and complain about how the team lacked a marketing focus/strategy/whatever. Product! Promotion! Execution! Followed by her total failure to volunteer precisely how she attemped to offer same. Yeah . . . that obviously worked out pretty well for her.
[/quote]
I was trying to figure that out myself as I watched the CNBC repeat. It's not clear. My money's on Alla, though.
So, let's see if I have Toral's BR strategy correct: bitch and complain about how the team lacked a marketing focus/strategy/whatever. Product! Promotion! Execution! Followed by her total failure to volunteer precisely how she attemped to offer same. Yeah . . . that obviously worked out pretty well for her.
Another reason to hate Toral? She wears colored contact lenses.[/quote]
Eh, I don't find this offensive or evidence of self-loathing. I know women with very strong senses of self who wear colored contacts because it's fun. YMMV, though. My reasons for hating Toral are pretty simple - she's a smug, delusional, useless waste of oxygen. ITA that Toral wasn't the reason the team lost, but she was such a toxic presence that Rebecca was right when she said the team couldn't function with her. Now let's see which member of Capital Edge steps up to be crowned as the next tocix bitch. My money's on Felicia.
Eh, I don't find this offensive or evidence of self-loathing. I know women with very strong senses of self who wear colored contacts because it's fun. YMMV, though. My reasons for hating Toral are pretty simple - she's a smug, delusional, useless waste of oxygen. ITA that Toral wasn't the reason the team lost, but she was such a toxic presence that Rebecca was right when she said the team couldn't function with her. Now let's see which member of Capital Edge steps up to be crowned as the next tocix bitch. My money's on Felicia.
James is a hottie bombottie. [/quote]
James? Hottie? Which Apprenti is this? Oh, dear. I'll never sort out who's who til the end of the season.
Shut. up. Kristi.
James? Hottie? Which Apprenti is this? Oh, dear. I'll never sort out who's who til the end of the season.
Shut. up. Kristi.
Both those "mascots" were the SCARIEST THINGS I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE (TM Smeagol, TA2). [/quote]
Hee! But the question is: did you have to hide in a corner?
Hee! But the question is: did you have to hide in a corner?
Is Toral obligated to come back if the producers want her to screw up someone's final task? After everything she said about everyone else, do you really think she'd have the nerve to come back? Or do you think she's so non self-aware that she has no idea how repulsive most people find her kind of thinking?
luvrhino, this bears repeating:
[Toral]'s autotheocratic. Much like in Xianity, she materialized on earth, only to die for our sins of un-Torally business practices. Please note that the Apocalypse has already begun what with the hurricanes and earthquakes. The forecast calls for frogs, locusts, and Karl Rove to be elected President in 2008.
Repent![/quote]
Snerk!
And on behalf of all Americans not of Indian descent: thank you to all the Indians who have posted about Toral's "religious objections". Now I don't have to look like a culturally insensitive idiot by asking my Indian friends, "Um... the Hindu religion doesn't REALLY have restrictions about dressing up in character costumes, does it?" It's one of those questions that you realize how dumb it sounds as it leaves your mouth, but you can't keep yourself from asking.
Mark did look yummy in that costume. Maybe he can recycle it for a little "Mommy kissing Santa Claus" fun with his S.O. this Christmas. "Have you been good this year, little girl?"
Cherry Wire said:
Repent![/quote]
Snerk!
And on behalf of all Americans not of Indian descent: thank you to all the Indians who have posted about Toral's "religious objections". Now I don't have to look like a culturally insensitive idiot by asking my Indian friends, "Um... the Hindu religion doesn't REALLY have restrictions about dressing up in character costumes, does it?" It's one of those questions that you realize how dumb it sounds as it leaves your mouth, but you can't keep yourself from asking.
Mark did look yummy in that costume. Maybe he can recycle it for a little "Mommy kissing Santa Claus" fun with his S.O. this Christmas. "Have you been good this year, little girl?"
Cherry Wire said:
I kept hearing "eat s**t" instead of "step up to the plate". "Toral, it's time for you to eat s**t". "We need you to eat s**t". "She'd better eat s**t". Because that's exactly what they were trying to make her do with that whole "you're going to wear the costume" business. They pretty much figured they owned her at that point. Not that Toralrosa didn't deserve every bit of it.[/quote]
WORD, Cherry Wire!! Although I did have hopes in the post-Boardroom bit before the credits that they really were going to give Toral a chance to prove herself. It reminded me of Markus and the guys after their boardroom (which worked). But by the time Felicia asked Toral to wear the costume I was getting a "we have picked out your pigeonhole, so get the hell in it!" vibe. A nicer, more clueful and more cooperative person than Toral would have been at least mildly pissed about it. I've worked on projects where the self-styled leader has been told to "include" me, and his idea of that is handing out a task after he snuck off and made all of the decisions ahead of time (and WRONG), and this kind of reminded me of that.
Rebecca strikes me as authentic. She does have beliefs and values and she sticks by them and doesn't change her opinions just because she is challenged by Trump. I also liked how she worked in a better rewording of her previous week's less-than-coherent Boardroom argument, about why she took on team leader last week. And she's not going to suck up to the Uniblonders just because Toral is gone. In Death is Not An Option, between them and Toral, I would have gone with Toral too.
Speaking of the Uniblonders, I do not include Jen M among them. I am liking her more and more, as I predicted I would last week. I do not like Kristi & Felicia. They are the cliquey ones in this clique. Alla would sell them out in a heartbeat, and I can't wait to see that.
My emotional pick for final four is currently Randal, Jen M, Rebecca, and Marshawn. My cold-hearted logic pick brings in Alla and bumps out either Jen or Rebecca.
WORD, Cherry Wire!! Although I did have hopes in the post-Boardroom bit before the credits that they really were going to give Toral a chance to prove herself. It reminded me of Markus and the guys after their boardroom (which worked). But by the time Felicia asked Toral to wear the costume I was getting a "we have picked out your pigeonhole, so get the hell in it!" vibe. A nicer, more clueful and more cooperative person than Toral would have been at least mildly pissed about it. I've worked on projects where the self-styled leader has been told to "include" me, and his idea of that is handing out a task after he snuck off and made all of the decisions ahead of time (and WRONG), and this kind of reminded me of that.
Rebecca strikes me as authentic. She does have beliefs and values and she sticks by them and doesn't change her opinions just because she is challenged by Trump. I also liked how she worked in a better rewording of her previous week's less-than-coherent Boardroom argument, about why she took on team leader last week. And she's not going to suck up to the Uniblonders just because Toral is gone. In Death is Not An Option, between them and Toral, I would have gone with Toral too.
Speaking of the Uniblonders, I do not include Jen M among them. I am liking her more and more, as I predicted I would last week. I do not like Kristi & Felicia. They are the cliquey ones in this clique. Alla would sell them out in a heartbeat, and I can't wait to see that.
My emotional pick for final four is currently Randal, Jen M, Rebecca, and Marshawn. My cold-hearted logic pick brings in Alla and bumps out either Jen or Rebecca.
I don't think this is the pretty blonde popular girls against the brainy plain brunettes. And the team had every right to dislike Toral after she told them that she was half assing it deliberately.[/quote]
ITA. I do think a clique has been formed, but the Blondies gave her two chances to prove herself. Now, I also do think that they were gunning for her, but she didn't have to let them succeed by refusing to do anything at all.
ITA. I do think a clique has been formed, but the Blondies gave her two chances to prove herself. Now, I also do think that they were gunning for her, but she didn't have to let them succeed by refusing to do anything at all.
But then she didn't do it, then the three women ganged up on Toral and were SCREAMING at her to don the Zip Suit where she, again, said no. She said she had personal reasons against wearing the suit and didn't want to do it, they should've dropped it there. There was no call to gang up and tell at her.[/quote]
Why should they have dropped it? After last week, Toral had to prove herself. She made a lame-ass attempt at being PM, and that was it. This was another chance to "step up," and she once again didn't take it. Her reason was so ridiculous that I think her PM and teammates had every right to demand an explanation. This is not a borderline ethical issue (Kwame signing autographs in S1 comes to mind), this was just dumb, dumb, dumb.
Why should they have dropped it? After last week, Toral had to prove herself. She made a lame-ass attempt at being PM, and that was it. This was another chance to "step up," and she once again didn't take it. Her reason was so ridiculous that I think her PM and teammates had every right to demand an explanation. This is not a borderline ethical issue (Kwame signing autographs in S1 comes to mind), this was just dumb, dumb, dumb.
Holy delusion, Batman! I implore you guys to run, not walk, to the extra! Yahoo! footage! and watch Toral's taxicab confessions. You'll hate her anew all over again. I'm sure her family and her employers are real proud of her now.
Is Toral obligated to come back if the producers want her to screw up someone's final task? [/quote]
Yup. She's probably contractually obligated to appear for any and all things Apprentice when summoned by TPTB until the final epi airs.
Yup. She's probably contractually obligated to appear for any and all things Apprentice when summoned by TPTB until the final epi airs.
After everything she said about everyone else, do you really think she'd have the nerve to come back? Or do you think she's so non self-aware that she has no idea how repulsive most people find her kind of thinking?[/quote]
Yes to both questions. She's the type who'll come back to really stick it to the final 2 candidate whose team she ends up on by default - trust me, no one's picking her. It'll be her time to shine.
Rebecca and Marshawn are pretty awesome in the BR. Both are smart enough to speak only when addressed by Trump and Co., and to keep their responses simple but direct. It would be great to see them in the F2. Because two women were the final candidates last season, though, this will never happen. I predict a male/female deathmatch.
Yes to both questions. She's the type who'll come back to really stick it to the final 2 candidate whose team she ends up on by default - trust me, no one's picking her. It'll be her time to shine.
Rebecca and Marshawn are pretty awesome in the BR. Both are smart enough to speak only when addressed by Trump and Co., and to keep their responses simple but direct. It would be great to see them in the F2. Because two women were the final candidates last season, though, this will never happen. I predict a male/female deathmatch.
I think the tasks get worse each season. I'm starting to get bored with the show, and I've been a huge fan from the beginning. I would have enjoyed seeing the usual boardroom with Felecia, Toral, and ? more than the direct firing.
The women are embarrassing, with the exception of Marshawn, in my opinion. It must be hell for her to live in that suite with that bunch. My guess is Rebecca will be the next "target" as she's the teacher's pet, a brunette, has the sympathy vote with the injury, and is probably popular with the men. Felecia seemed smarter earlier in the season before she started hanging with Kristi (will she be gone soon please???)
Hard to understand the editing on this episode with the men's team. Clay was completely obnoxious initially, yet by the task's completion they were a band of merry men with no one challenging him in between? The men's team does have fun despite the lame tasks; they at least seem like good sports.
The women are embarrassing, with the exception of Marshawn, in my opinion. It must be hell for her to live in that suite with that bunch. My guess is Rebecca will be the next "target" as she's the teacher's pet, a brunette, has the sympathy vote with the injury, and is probably popular with the men. Felecia seemed smarter earlier in the season before she started hanging with Kristi (will she be gone soon please???)
Hard to understand the editing on this episode with the men's team. Clay was completely obnoxious initially, yet by the task's completion they were a band of merry men with no one challenging him in between? The men's team does have fun despite the lame tasks; they at least seem like good sports.
I don't believe for a second that Toral deserved to go more than Felicia. Toral's refusal to wear the costume could have been put aside until the boardroom, so that the energy of the team would be focused on the task, not on the sideshow.
A good leader would have quickly moved on and assigned someone else. Heck, a good leader wouldn't have assigned Toral the task in the first place, because obviously, the only reason to do so is petty sorority-style revenge.
I do think there is something to Toral's culture/religion defense -- I just don't think she worded it properly and just generally made a sorry case for herself. I know many people, mostly immigrants like myself, who would consider it humiliating to wear that costume. Why? The line between what is funny and what is humiliating is very much culturally defined and varies greatly among human societies. There are cultures in which it is a shame to behave 'like a child', to be silly or self-deprecating. I think some sociologists call these "shame-based cultures" because the social rules have a lot to do with not doing what is 'shameful'.
Add to this the fact that many immigrants struggle to prove themselves, and to distance themselves from places of origin, both literally and figuratively. Many cultures are far more socially stratified than here in the US, and most immigrants do not come from the higher classes (since they have the most to gain from an equalitarian culture). Even if Toral is a 2nd generation immigrant, she's still greatly affected by her parents expectations, fears and aspirations. I think she may have been entirely honest about not wanting to shame her parents
A good leader would have quickly moved on and assigned someone else. Heck, a good leader wouldn't have assigned Toral the task in the first place, because obviously, the only reason to do so is petty sorority-style revenge.
I do think there is something to Toral's culture/religion defense -- I just don't think she worded it properly and just generally made a sorry case for herself. I know many people, mostly immigrants like myself, who would consider it humiliating to wear that costume. Why? The line between what is funny and what is humiliating is very much culturally defined and varies greatly among human societies. There are cultures in which it is a shame to behave 'like a child', to be silly or self-deprecating. I think some sociologists call these "shame-based cultures" because the social rules have a lot to do with not doing what is 'shameful'.
Add to this the fact that many immigrants struggle to prove themselves, and to distance themselves from places of origin, both literally and figuratively. Many cultures are far more socially stratified than here in the US, and most immigrants do not come from the higher classes (since they have the most to gain from an equalitarian culture). Even if Toral is a 2nd generation immigrant, she's still greatly affected by her parents expectations, fears and aspirations. I think she may have been entirely honest about not wanting to shame her parents
Even if Toral is a 2nd generation immigrant, she's still greatly affected by her parents expectations, fears and aspirations. I think she may have been entirely honest about not wanting to shame her parents[/quote]
I kind of agree with what you're saying, but you can't whip out your cultural heritage whenever it suits you, and I think Toral just fell back on it when nothing else was working. Secondly, who goes out reality television and doesn't think she might be humiliated?
I kind of agree with what you're saying, but you can't whip out your cultural heritage whenever it suits you, and I think Toral just fell back on it when nothing else was working. Secondly, who goes out reality television and doesn't think she might be humiliated?
One thing that bugged me about the Mascot task was the DQ exec talking about the mascot needing to appeal to teenagers. Maybe I was a cynical teen, but mascots aren't going to draw teenagers into DQ. Little kids like the mascots, teenagers want a place to hang out with their friends.
Can anyone think of a product mascot that teenagers sincerely enjoy? I guess Chester Cheetah's kinda cool but I haven't seen him in a while.
I suspect the DQ execs would have loved Zip if he had sunglasses, a skateboard, backwards cap, and said "eXtreme Blizzard!"
Can anyone think of a product mascot that teenagers sincerely enjoy? I guess Chester Cheetah's kinda cool but I haven't seen him in a while.
I suspect the DQ execs would have loved Zip if he had sunglasses, a skateboard, backwards cap, and said "eXtreme Blizzard!"
My absolute favorite part of the episode was when Kristi/Zip was trying to edge her way around the conference table after the women's team biffed the presentation and one of the DQ executives called out "Bye, Zip!" [/quote]
I loved that whole scene - 1. the girls pushing Zip from behind to get the eyebrows unwedged from the door frame (and then seeing the front view of Zip as she enters the room like a popped cork), 2. the DQ execs trying to smile brightly in an unsuccessful attempt to mask their sheer terror, 3. The random view of 'terrified exec on the left' through the friggin' eyeholes of Zip, 4. The editing jump from Rebecca's narrative, "'...he goes zip! Zip! Zip!' and I thought, this is just ridiculous..." to a clip of that Zip monstrosity just standing lifeless, hose in hand, and looking like a fucking nightmare, and of course, 5. "Bye, Zip!"
I loved that whole scene - 1. the girls pushing Zip from behind to get the eyebrows unwedged from the door frame (and then seeing the front view of Zip as she enters the room like a popped cork), 2. the DQ execs trying to smile brightly in an unsuccessful attempt to mask their sheer terror, 3. The random view of 'terrified exec on the left' through the friggin' eyeholes of Zip, 4. The editing jump from Rebecca's narrative, "'...he goes zip! Zip! Zip!' and I thought, this is just ridiculous..." to a clip of that Zip monstrosity just standing lifeless, hose in hand, and looking like a fucking nightmare, and of course, 5. "Bye, Zip!"
I hate this episodes for making me feel slightly sorry for Toral. She was such a bitch, I wanted her fired in a way I could enjoy.
I think it was unproffesional to try to force her into the constume, especially in the way they did.
I think it was unproffesional to try to force her into the constume, especially in the way they did.
Did anyone else flash on the early scene in Carrie when everyone was "STEP UP TO THE PLATE" hounding Toral?
All that Boardroom needed was a bucket of pig's blood and some Toral telekinetic carnage. That would have been awesome.[/quote]
Except that Carrie was sympathetic, Toral is not, she would have me rooting for the sadistic teenagers. Toral really needs a crazy mother at home to yell, "THEIR ALL GONNA LAUGH AT YOU", she needs someone to give her a reality check.
I don't even think the other women on the team treated her unfairly anyway, it's clear that Toral holds anyone that's not her in contempt, I'm sure the others picked up on it, she wasn't exactly subtle.
All that Boardroom needed was a bucket of pig's blood and some Toral telekinetic carnage. That would have been awesome.[/quote]
Except that Carrie was sympathetic, Toral is not, she would have me rooting for the sadistic teenagers. Toral really needs a crazy mother at home to yell, "THEIR ALL GONNA LAUGH AT YOU", she needs someone to give her a reality check.
I don't even think the other women on the team treated her unfairly anyway, it's clear that Toral holds anyone that's not her in contempt, I'm sure the others picked up on it, she wasn't exactly subtle.
Another reason to hate Toral? She wears colored contact lenses. [/quote]
How do you know this?
How do you know this?
James is a hottie bombottie. He looks a little like a dark-haired version of Matthew McConaughey mixed in with the teensiest bit of Boyfriend Bill.[/quote]
Eh.. I'm kind of liking Josh and Markus, of course. I love me some Markus.
ETA: Does the "Red Stripe guy" count as a mascot? My teen doesn't like any mascots, but he likes the "Red Stripe beer" guy, and that is who they are trying to appeal to.
Eh.. I'm kind of liking Josh and Markus, of course. I love me some Markus.
ETA: Does the "Red Stripe guy" count as a mascot? My teen doesn't like any mascots, but he likes the "Red Stripe beer" guy, and that is who they are trying to appeal to.
Can anyone think of a product mascot that teenagers sincerely enjoy? [/quote]
Joe Cool - the cigarette mascot. Under the terms of some court settlement, the cigarette manufacturers were forced to stop using marketing gimmics that were aimed at teenagers.
Joe Cool - the cigarette mascot. Under the terms of some court settlement, the cigarette manufacturers were forced to stop using marketing gimmics that were aimed at teenagers.
And the team had every right to dislike Toral after she told them that she was half assing it deliberately.
[/quote]
I agree, but the manner in which they decided they were going to make her pay was assy as well. It was a power trip, and not pulled off with much panache.
[/quote]
I agree, but the manner in which they decided they were going to make her pay was assy as well. It was a power trip, and not pulled off with much panache.
I would now like to introduce my chicken-egg theory of hate. This would be useful info to have in trying to decide whether Toral or the blondes (excluding Jen M.) are more loathsome.
Which came first?
Did Toral start holding the women in contempt because they were an obnoxious clique or did the blondes bond together against Toral because they could sense her contempt?
Given what I know of social dynamics, the constant griping by the blondes about whomever is PM, and the fact that Toral seems to express most of her views regarding the women in personal interviews, I would lean towards Toral feeling alienated by the blonde clique and lashing out against what she feels are her inferiors. And lets be honest, in a real corporate interview process, none of those blondes would come close to Toral.
Alas this is not real, it is reality TV. Toral must not watch much or she would know that the show is not about being qualified. Many times it comes down to nothing but a popularity contest and Toral is unpopular. And Trump, a guy who has to put his name on every friggin thing he does, hates people who aren't popular.
Even the most rabid Toral hater could not possibly blame her for the team losing that task. As one of them bitchily noted in the van (after Felecia seperated the teams by hair color), it was a collaborative effort, everyone IN THE VAN contributed.
And here I'll give Jen M. a pass, because she clearly advocated putting the DQ logo on Zip. And her Project Manager shot her down. Nothing that comes after this moment has any significance to the result of the task. This was clearly one of the stupidest decisions in the history of the show. The two DQ execs both had the word "Branding" in their job title and Felecia decides the DQ logo is unneccessary. I don't know about anybody else, but I declared the task lost the minute that happened, not even taking into account that they ignored most of DQ's demographic by marketing to kids.
The rest of the show was nothing more than an ugly power-play and cultural differences or not, Toral correctly interpreted their insistence that she be the mascot as an attempt to humiliate her.
Rebecca I can feel for because I can understand why she went against Toral in the Boardroom. She put herself on the line for her, clearly expecting that she would take on the PM responsibility which she failed to do. I think Rebecca believes that they could have won that task with a PM who treated it as a Marketing assignment and not a Junior High art project.
My hate is currently reserved for Kristi and Felecia, with a side of dislike for Alla.
Which came first?
Did Toral start holding the women in contempt because they were an obnoxious clique or did the blondes bond together against Toral because they could sense her contempt?
Given what I know of social dynamics, the constant griping by the blondes about whomever is PM, and the fact that Toral seems to express most of her views regarding the women in personal interviews, I would lean towards Toral feeling alienated by the blonde clique and lashing out against what she feels are her inferiors. And lets be honest, in a real corporate interview process, none of those blondes would come close to Toral.
Alas this is not real, it is reality TV. Toral must not watch much or she would know that the show is not about being qualified. Many times it comes down to nothing but a popularity contest and Toral is unpopular. And Trump, a guy who has to put his name on every friggin thing he does, hates people who aren't popular.
Even the most rabid Toral hater could not possibly blame her for the team losing that task. As one of them bitchily noted in the van (after Felecia seperated the teams by hair color), it was a collaborative effort, everyone IN THE VAN contributed.
And here I'll give Jen M. a pass, because she clearly advocated putting the DQ logo on Zip. And her Project Manager shot her down. Nothing that comes after this moment has any significance to the result of the task. This was clearly one of the stupidest decisions in the history of the show. The two DQ execs both had the word "Branding" in their job title and Felecia decides the DQ logo is unneccessary. I don't know about anybody else, but I declared the task lost the minute that happened, not even taking into account that they ignored most of DQ's demographic by marketing to kids.
The rest of the show was nothing more than an ugly power-play and cultural differences or not, Toral correctly interpreted their insistence that she be the mascot as an attempt to humiliate her.
Rebecca I can feel for because I can understand why she went against Toral in the Boardroom. She put herself on the line for her, clearly expecting that she would take on the PM responsibility which she failed to do. I think Rebecca believes that they could have won that task with a PM who treated it as a Marketing assignment and not a Junior High art project.
My hate is currently reserved for Kristi and Felecia, with a side of dislike for Alla.
Toral is a moron. But Felicia deserved to be fired.
Toral, if she had any brains, could have saved herself in the boardroom and before the Clique. If I were Toral, I'd say that I didn't wear the costume because I don't feel like I was the right person to wear it. A mascot should be worn by someone with an outgoing, ebullient personality-- a cheerleader-type, like Kristi. To interject a sports metaphor, you don't ask Derek Jeter to hit home runs, you ask him to get on base. Arod will hit the home runs.
Toral should have bowed out with that reasoning instead of the lame cultural reasoning. Then she could further turn the table on Felicia and say that Felicia should have recognized that her talents were in other tasks and thus the time spent harping on Toral was a total waste.
Because she did not volunteer for PM and because of her lousy boardroom defense, she deserved to go.
Toral, if she had any brains, could have saved herself in the boardroom and before the Clique. If I were Toral, I'd say that I didn't wear the costume because I don't feel like I was the right person to wear it. A mascot should be worn by someone with an outgoing, ebullient personality-- a cheerleader-type, like Kristi. To interject a sports metaphor, you don't ask Derek Jeter to hit home runs, you ask him to get on base. Arod will hit the home runs.
Toral should have bowed out with that reasoning instead of the lame cultural reasoning. Then she could further turn the table on Felicia and say that Felicia should have recognized that her talents were in other tasks and thus the time spent harping on Toral was a total waste.
Because she did not volunteer for PM and because of her lousy boardroom defense, she deserved to go.
Yeah, you’re right, blueguy. Joe Camel is a great example.
I think a lot of people are missing the point about Toral. By her own actions and words during this task, she proved herself totally unacceptable as an employee. First and most important, she did not want the project to be successful. That in itself is reason to be fired. Second, she was dishonest to her potential employer. That in itself is reason to be fired. Third, her actions, temperament and attitude took her out of contention as either a leader or a contributor. Any employer would be an idiot to keep her around at the expense of someone who, no matter how poorly they executed, wanted the project to be a success and worked to achieve that goal. Toral's behavior and attitude rendered the failure of the other team members to execute an effective mascot design and marketing strategy moot.
Felisha, Kristi and Alla were stupid to lose their focus by getting distracted and obsessive with their outrage at Toral. It was dumb to get into a power struggle over her wearing the mascot costume in order to try to force her to live up to her promise to contribute to the team effort. The team deserved to lose for their crappy design, lack of branding, etc. Similar to the men’s team in the Lamborghini challenge, they* were unable to see that their campaign wasn’t good. But they cared about winning, and in comparison to Toral’s attitude, that was enough for them to deserve to stay.
Personal example: the company I work for is (finally) getting a website. We interviewed numerous companies that handle website design, building, optimization, “pay-per-click” advertising management, etc. I disagree with the choice my boss made about who to hire to do the job. But I am spending my day today, Saturday, on my own time, to write content for the web pages, because I care about the success of the project, the success of my company, and having what we put out there for the world to see be the best it can be. My boss knows that I care and that he can rely on me even though I would not have made the choice he did. That is what an employer needs. The Apprentice is hardly true to life in most ways, but in this case, the firing of Toral was an accurate example of a good real life business decision.
*ETA: By "they" I mean Felisha, Kristi & Alla. I think Jen, Rebecca and Marshawn had a pretty good understanding that it sucked.
I think a lot of people are missing the point about Toral. By her own actions and words during this task, she proved herself totally unacceptable as an employee. First and most important, she did not want the project to be successful. That in itself is reason to be fired. Second, she was dishonest to her potential employer. That in itself is reason to be fired. Third, her actions, temperament and attitude took her out of contention as either a leader or a contributor. Any employer would be an idiot to keep her around at the expense of someone who, no matter how poorly they executed, wanted the project to be a success and worked to achieve that goal. Toral's behavior and attitude rendered the failure of the other team members to execute an effective mascot design and marketing strategy moot.
Felisha, Kristi and Alla were stupid to lose their focus by getting distracted and obsessive with their outrage at Toral. It was dumb to get into a power struggle over her wearing the mascot costume in order to try to force her to live up to her promise to contribute to the team effort. The team deserved to lose for their crappy design, lack of branding, etc. Similar to the men’s team in the Lamborghini challenge, they* were unable to see that their campaign wasn’t good. But they cared about winning, and in comparison to Toral’s attitude, that was enough for them to deserve to stay.
Personal example: the company I work for is (finally) getting a website. We interviewed numerous companies that handle website design, building, optimization, “pay-per-click” advertising management, etc. I disagree with the choice my boss made about who to hire to do the job. But I am spending my day today, Saturday, on my own time, to write content for the web pages, because I care about the success of the project, the success of my company, and having what we put out there for the world to see be the best it can be. My boss knows that I care and that he can rely on me even though I would not have made the choice he did. That is what an employer needs. The Apprentice is hardly true to life in most ways, but in this case, the firing of Toral was an accurate example of a good real life business decision.
*ETA: By "they" I mean Felisha, Kristi & Alla. I think Jen, Rebecca and Marshawn had a pretty good understanding that it sucked.
Did anyone else see this episode and get reminded of the similar task from My Big Fat Obnoxious Boss? Right down to the boss wondering why they picked such an unflattering costume (though in DT's defense*, he didn't say the mascot needed more sex appeal.)
* DT doesn't NEED me to defend him, it's just the right thing to do in this particular case.
ObToral: I disagree that in a real business interview, Toral would outshine the Heathers. Jen M., in particular, had to go through a LOT of interviews in her pagent days, and probably interviews extremely well. On paper, if you do no follow-up checking, Toral could make it to the top of the stack of them, but...hey, where's your transcript from Columbia? What does it say? Interesting...next, please. (And since everyone deserves a second chance: Oh, what does it say on your web page? First Pick? Why are you not working for...oh, you didn't actually win. Or make it to the Final 2. Or the Top Ten. But you were personally fired by him? What a coincidence, Donald Trump and I have something in common! Next!)
* DT doesn't NEED me to defend him, it's just the right thing to do in this particular case.
ObToral: I disagree that in a real business interview, Toral would outshine the Heathers. Jen M., in particular, had to go through a LOT of interviews in her pagent days, and probably interviews extremely well. On paper, if you do no follow-up checking, Toral could make it to the top of the stack of them, but...hey, where's your transcript from Columbia? What does it say? Interesting...next, please. (And since everyone deserves a second chance: Oh, what does it say on your web page? First Pick? Why are you not working for...oh, you didn't actually win. Or make it to the Final 2. Or the Top Ten. But you were personally fired by him? What a coincidence, Donald Trump and I have something in common! Next!)
And lets be honest, in a real corporate interview process, none of those blondes would come close to Toral.[/quote]
I don't know that much about the backgrounds of the different women, other than what I've read here on the threads. But even assuming that their backgrounds are much less impressive than Toral's, they were all selected and are there, for whatever reason. IMO, only a fool shows that much open contempt towards people she has to work with for a while, even if they indeed started acting snotty to her first. Some of it was in interviews, but she was also pretty contemptuous in last week's boardroom. She also was condescending about them while talking to Markus, and could have been overheard by someone else.
If the rumor is true about Toral getting thrown out of Columbia for cheating, she isn't in any position to look down her nose on anyone. But even if it isn't true, Toral was stupid for getting played by them, instead of playing them. I agree that the insistence by Felisha was a nasty power play, but Toral could have used it against her.
If Toral had worn the costume, she could have said in the boardroom that despite the reluctance that she had expressed for cultural reasons, she did it for the team. I don't think there was any way Trump would have fired her after that - it would have even earned her some points. Wearing the costume would have also helped her to disguise her disdain for the whole enterprise.
If Toral had fought to be PM, and was turned down, she could have also used that in the boardroom. If Toral was as smart as she wants the world to believe, she could have turned her teammates' dislike to her advantage. But she was too busy swanning around, and feeling superior.
Felisha and Kristi are horrible. But they managed to at least outlast Toral, and Toral has no one to blame but herself for her pathetic, ineffectual showing.
I don't know that much about the backgrounds of the different women, other than what I've read here on the threads. But even assuming that their backgrounds are much less impressive than Toral's, they were all selected and are there, for whatever reason. IMO, only a fool shows that much open contempt towards people she has to work with for a while, even if they indeed started acting snotty to her first. Some of it was in interviews, but she was also pretty contemptuous in last week's boardroom. She also was condescending about them while talking to Markus, and could have been overheard by someone else.
If the rumor is true about Toral getting thrown out of Columbia for cheating, she isn't in any position to look down her nose on anyone. But even if it isn't true, Toral was stupid for getting played by them, instead of playing them. I agree that the insistence by Felisha was a nasty power play, but Toral could have used it against her.
If Toral had worn the costume, she could have said in the boardroom that despite the reluctance that she had expressed for cultural reasons, she did it for the team. I don't think there was any way Trump would have fired her after that - it would have even earned her some points. Wearing the costume would have also helped her to disguise her disdain for the whole enterprise.
If Toral had fought to be PM, and was turned down, she could have also used that in the boardroom. If Toral was as smart as she wants the world to believe, she could have turned her teammates' dislike to her advantage. But she was too busy swanning around, and feeling superior.
Felisha and Kristi are horrible. But they managed to at least outlast Toral, and Toral has no one to blame but herself for her pathetic, ineffectual showing.
Good post, Ashforth. I agree with all of it. I have many a time had to suck up and do what was needed to get a job done. Toral didn't do that, she let her contempt-for-all-who-are-not-Toral influence her behavior. (And I do think her "cultural" segue "spriritual" segue "religion" excuse was just that, an excuse.) And the gals who focused so much on getting Toral into the costume lost sight of the bottom line, also, letting their need to assert their will take precedence over the project.
marketdoctor and Ashforth, I agree with what you both have written.
Toral argued in the boardroom (and outside the boardroom) that she was not more assertive about taking the PM position in this task since it was primarily marketing and that is not her strength (and she lied about Felicia claiming to be a marketing genius).
What task on this show isn't ALL about MARKETING? Even those tasks involving remodeling of a home or renovation of a motel room are basically marketing tasks.
Toral thought that being Toral was enough. It was. Enough to get her sent packing and that is okay with me.
As we all know, Toral's strength is banking and money management. SO why didn't Toral argue during the BestBuy task to demonstrate on line trading to the elderly? She is a self-made millionaire and a DAY TRADER?! She could have "persuaded" those in the retirement home to turn over the remainder of their pensions and savings, opened up on-line trading accounts or whatever, and within those few hours demonstrated her mastery at "growing the wealth" of these folks while teaching them how to do it for themselves. Opportunity lost, Toral, because you chose to demonstrate that you couldn't master a remote control. I am being facitious, but not entirely.
She is a whiny, lazy, self-deluded bitch. Regardless of how the fair-haired gang of four formed, Toral didn't do anything because work is beneath her. As others have noted, she had no business coming on the show.
I like Marshawn and I hope to see more of her soon. She seems level-headed and she can think on her feet without trying to make others look bad (e.g. explaining the logo, or lack of logo, to the DQ executives).
I don't think Rebecca turned on Toral. I think Rebecca saw that she and Toral aren't all that much alike afterall. Rebecca was PM despite the broken ankle, and Rebecca worked on this project as a team member. Toral complained and did nothing. The outfit was stupid, but not the worst costume I have ever seen. I thought the genie was worse with respect to the wearer looking like an ass.
Toral argued in the boardroom (and outside the boardroom) that she was not more assertive about taking the PM position in this task since it was primarily marketing and that is not her strength (and she lied about Felicia claiming to be a marketing genius).
What task on this show isn't ALL about MARKETING? Even those tasks involving remodeling of a home or renovation of a motel room are basically marketing tasks.
Toral thought that being Toral was enough. It was. Enough to get her sent packing and that is okay with me.
As we all know, Toral's strength is banking and money management. SO why didn't Toral argue during the BestBuy task to demonstrate on line trading to the elderly? She is a self-made millionaire and a DAY TRADER?! She could have "persuaded" those in the retirement home to turn over the remainder of their pensions and savings, opened up on-line trading accounts or whatever, and within those few hours demonstrated her mastery at "growing the wealth" of these folks while teaching them how to do it for themselves. Opportunity lost, Toral, because you chose to demonstrate that you couldn't master a remote control. I am being facitious, but not entirely.
She is a whiny, lazy, self-deluded bitch. Regardless of how the fair-haired gang of four formed, Toral didn't do anything because work is beneath her. As others have noted, she had no business coming on the show.
I like Marshawn and I hope to see more of her soon. She seems level-headed and she can think on her feet without trying to make others look bad (e.g. explaining the logo, or lack of logo, to the DQ executives).
I don't think Rebecca turned on Toral. I think Rebecca saw that she and Toral aren't all that much alike afterall. Rebecca was PM despite the broken ankle, and Rebecca worked on this project as a team member. Toral complained and did nothing. The outfit was stupid, but not the worst costume I have ever seen. I thought the genie was worse with respect to the wearer looking like an ass.
But then she didn't do it, then the three women ganged up on Toral and were SCREAMING at her to don the Zip Suit where she, again, said no. She said she had personal reasons against wearing the suit and didn't want to do it, they should've dropped it there. There was no call to gang up and tell at her.[/quote]
Why should they have dropped it? After last week, Toral had to prove herself. She made a lame-ass attempt at being PM, and that was it. This was another chance to "step up," and she once again didn't take it. Her reason was so ridiculous that I think her PM and teammates had every right to demand an explanation. [/quote]
They should have dropped it because they're there to do a good job on the task and win, not to encourage their teammates to fulfill their potential. It's not an individual competition yet, true, but Capital Edge has lost sight of their goal. They're too busy cannibalizing to give half a shit about the work they're supposed to be doing.
Why should they have dropped it? After last week, Toral had to prove herself. She made a lame-ass attempt at being PM, and that was it. This was another chance to "step up," and she once again didn't take it. Her reason was so ridiculous that I think her PM and teammates had every right to demand an explanation. [/quote]
They should have dropped it because they're there to do a good job on the task and win, not to encourage their teammates to fulfill their potential. It's not an individual competition yet, true, but Capital Edge has lost sight of their goal. They're too busy cannibalizing to give half a shit about the work they're supposed to be doing.
I don't think Rebecca turned on Toral. I think Rebecca saw that she and Toral aren't all that much alike afterall. [/quote]
Agreed. I also think Rebecca saw a) how divisive and lazy Toral is so the team could not function with her; and b) that Toral would sell her down the river in a heartbeat. Rebecca stood up for Toral, but Toral would never do the same and I think that is what likely disappointed her (besides Toral not taking on being PM and showing what she can do) the most.
As for Marshawn, I'm liking her more and more. She's cool, calm and collected (so far) and looks for ways to make each project work. I forgot what she said (about the lack of a logo) during the presentation - can someone fill me in? I just remember it was impressive that she didn't flinch at that point and jumped in - very gracefully - to answer the question. But I'd love to know what she said.
Agreed. I also think Rebecca saw a) how divisive and lazy Toral is so the team could not function with her; and b) that Toral would sell her down the river in a heartbeat. Rebecca stood up for Toral, but Toral would never do the same and I think that is what likely disappointed her (besides Toral not taking on being PM and showing what she can do) the most.
As for Marshawn, I'm liking her more and more. She's cool, calm and collected (so far) and looks for ways to make each project work. I forgot what she said (about the lack of a logo) during the presentation - can someone fill me in? I just remember it was impressive that she didn't flinch at that point and jumped in - very gracefully - to answer the question. But I'd love to know what she said.
But I'd love to know what she said. [/quote]
I don't remember exactly what she said, but I didn't think the words were particularly impressive. What impressed me so much was the way she stepped into that awkward silence when it was clear that no one else had anything else to say.
She also managed to do it in a way that wasn't insulting to Jennifer, who seemed to be the one selected to speak for the group. I'm loving the fact the Marshawn shows another side of professional women. She isn't nasty, petty or vindictive. She looks like someone who wants to win, and will work with her team, whether she personally likes them or not.
I don't remember exactly what she said, but I didn't think the words were particularly impressive. What impressed me so much was the way she stepped into that awkward silence when it was clear that no one else had anything else to say.
She also managed to do it in a way that wasn't insulting to Jennifer, who seemed to be the one selected to speak for the group. I'm loving the fact the Marshawn shows another side of professional women. She isn't nasty, petty or vindictive. She looks like someone who wants to win, and will work with her team, whether she personally likes them or not.
Marshawn explained that Dairy Queen was written on the spoon, if memory serves.
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