If Toral really -is- a bitch, maybe the blondes don't deserve all the criticism for hating her (and her fervent supporter) these past weeks? [/quote]
Yeah, I don't understand all the hatred for the "blondes." Even after reading page after page of it, I don't get it. I guess being blonde and hanging around with other blondes puts a target on your head. If they planned to get rid of Toral, good for them. They accomplished it, and it's a good thing for the team, especially since she clearly planned to get rid of all of them, one by one, which she made clear with her comment about her strategy of behaving passively "so that all of these inferior people around me implode" comment. Only, she wasn't so effective in her plan, was she? Being that her sole ally was Rebecca, and even Rebecca was forced to see through her BS. Had Toral survived, she would have continued to try to undermine the other candidates, one at a time. She's no persecuted underdog and she gets no sympathy from me for being "ganged up" on.
Now, if the "inner circle" or "coven," or whatever had secretly plotted to blindside Toral, my feelings might be different. But, they were upfront. They confronted Toral, and warned her beforehand. She was too much of an arrogant fool to recognize that they meant what they said. In that, she's unlike, say, Markus, who realized early on that he was in trouble, and tried to make adjustments in his approach to the rest of his team, and his general behavior. And so, he's survived for a bit longer, while Toral is gone, gone, gone. Three huzzahs!!!
If I were Felisha and the rest of Coven Lite, I would watch my comments away from any member of the non-Covenites. It's those things that the workplace is trying to get away from. Yeah, I totally get that you enjoy working with Jen (aka Blair Warner's Little Sister) and Krusti but if you make it SOO obvious that you CAN'T work with the others, you come off as a manager that plays favourites.[/quote]
Now this, I do agree with. I note that Jennifer M. has broken ranks several times, and she did so again during the last episode. But, if Capital Edge continues to lose, the teams will be reshuffled anyway, so I doubt that the current configuration, and the internal dynamics that go along with it, will last much longer.
clairedawn
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:07 am
Heathers - 1989 movie
The Summary of Heathers
Three of the four girls in the most powerful clique at Westerburg High happen to be named Heather. These pretty princesses set the trends, pull the strings and call the shots at their middle-class Ohio school. For recreation, they play croquet with each other or play cruel tricks on their classmates.
Veronica Sawyer is an honorary member of the elite high school clique made up of three other girls called Heather. As much as Veronica enjoys being associated with the in-crowd, she recognises the horror of the 'Heathers' - their colour-coordinated codes and their calculating cruelty - and actually wishes them dead.
Nutjob
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:13 am
Can someone please explain why you guys keep calling the blonde click the “Heathers?” I understand “coven” but can’t grasp the “Heather” reference. Thanks![/quote]
The "Heathers" reference comes from the movie Heathers, where the rich, powerful clique of high school girls were all named Heather... except for Veronica, the one who broke ranks.
IMO, the blondes took the persecution of Toral WAY over the top when they were trying to get her to wear the costume. While I do think she should have worn it, the way they all ganged up on her at the "war room" reminded me of a bunch of chickens pecking at the one they think is weak. Once she refused, they should have just gone on. Trump was ready to fire her unless she did something really brilliant anyway, so why go so far overboard?
Oh... and I think I love Randal now, too. That jingle was too cute.
heebiejeebie
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:16 am
And while I like Marshawn and think she is a quick thinker, she also seems very aloof and standoffish. This could be the editing, but even when she was PM she was very handsoff.[/quote]
I'm still underwhelmed by Marshawn. I don't think she is all that quick a thinker as she never seemed to really stick out in what we saw of the boardroom. I'm not sure if she truly is adopting an "anyone but me" strategy in the boardroom or if it just appears so to me at this point. Regardless, I think it is foolish and shortsighted path to take. While I would have probably smothered Toral with Zippy's head (after pulling it off Kristi's cold dead body) if I was on her team, I think Marshawn was an idiot for not having a better game plan going in and calmly but neutrally underscored the failure of the task and let the coven go after Toral. Which is kind of what she did. However she did not emphasize enough the fact that Toral was also strong on branding the image. Which is why I think Jen was miffed enough to admit to fellow Covenites that Toral was not why they lost. I think a good strategist and analyst would have been able to capitalize on that and make a move to keep Toral at the cost of Felisha. At this point I think the blondes are gunning for Rebecca and Marshawn both and will take out whichever one they think the weakest. Despite her win, Rebecca's Boardroom performances and Trump's reaction to those makes Marshawn the wounded elk at this stage of the game. Marshawn needs to do better than just not be the worst or adequate. And that is all she has done so far that I can see. I didn't see her win being pivotal on her contribution or her leadership skills and thought that it was more of a case of the men losing than the women winning.
But then I have that same rather unpopular opinion of Randall as well. Very underwhelmed with him as I see him as competent. But not a standout in any way.
Frankly no one has stood out in a good way yet this season. Go Primarius!
Oscirus
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:16 am
This doesn't make any sense to me. Marshawn organized her task to win. She delegated well, and although she may have been a bit too hands-off for some, she won. Had someone failed their part of the task and been called to account for it that's reasonable, totally unlike Felisha insisting that Toral wear the suit. What is Marshawn next on the list for - to be fired?[/quote]
No she delegated herself far away from the action. SHe had herself set up nicely to where if anything messed up Alla would have been her scape goat. Her management style was no better than Felisha's
As for Marshawn she would be next on the list of people the blonde clique are going after, I doubt at this juncture they would go after Rebecca.
As for Jennifer being the next to go I just think Jennifer will fail as project manager and fail to pin the blame on anybody. this is all a guess though.
TheLady2
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:18 am
Toral claimed the Zip costume along with the group were all well beneath her. In her exit she also discredits Trump. But check out her website and notice how she totes herself as being on The Apprentice and on Richard Branson's show.
Toral? You're talking on both sides of your mouth yet again.
http://www.toral-mehta.com/
PittsburghDiva
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:23 am
I am sure there are a million things that Toral could object to in her day-to-day job that would offend her "spiritually" but I am sure she overlooks them because of the almighty dollar. She drummed up the religion excuse at the last minute and Trump saw through it.
As for her dismissing the rest of the team as being her admin assistants- Toral honey, I am not an admin but I see what they go through where I work and you wouldn't last a DAY in that position.
Nutjob
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:28 am
WOW. Delusional much? That site is just... laughable. She's almost as out of touch with reality as Omarosa.
No she delegated herself far away from the action. SHe had herself set up nicel;y to where if anything messed up Alla would have been her scape goat. Her management style was no better than Felisha's [/quote]
I agree with this to a point, but it also seems like Marshawn doesn't communicate that well or that much with her teammates. She seems like a "speak only when necessary" type, and I personally think she had good reason to let Kristi, Jen, and Alla do the work on the video portion of the Lambourghini task--she just never communicated to THEM what that was.
tiggeril
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:28 am
Why is she saying she was picked by Richard Branson?
Here's the contestant list for
The Rebel Billionaire. There's an Indian woman there, but it sure as fuck isn't Toral. The hell?
Hamhock96
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:29 am
Finally I think the men's team simply did a better job of pitching the DQ guys what they wanted to hear[/quote]
Right. Clay had some moments when he seemed like a total asswipe, but his presentation was very professional. He mentioned "Dairy Queen" at least five times in his first paragraph. He kept pointing out the brand identity of their figure and he also remarked that the costume was readily available for use, even by a male. The male team seemed to have thought through the needs of this company and they sought to meet them within a very rigid time line. The girls were in love with their cartoon and had no idea what the task truly was.
I think that there is no sympathy for Toral on the boards, but she had a point about how inept the rest of the team was. No one fought for the DQ identification during the meeting. No one seemed to understand that importance at all. The men grasped this from the start. So far, the women only seem to do well when the men do really badly (as in Lamborghini.)
And Toral was not employing Kendra's strategy. Kendra never interviewed to the effect that she was superior to the rest and she worked hard from the start. Her marketing ideas won more than one task. She did not sit back and deprecate the others; she contributed the knowledge that she possessed in a fashion calculated to win the attention of the others.
Fire Starter
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:28 am
Although a lot of the tasks are silly, I agree with the viewpoint that they do tend to reveal in microcosm what a candidate has to offer in more demanding, "real life" scenarios. The tasks reveal character. So, no matter what context they find themselves in, the vast majority of the time Marshawn will be articulate and logical, Rebecca will be intelligent but might still let irrational personal reasons interfere with her judgment, Kristi will trash talk everyone behind their backs etc.
As for Toral, it's just immature and delusional to think that you'll ever get a job that matches your interests and abilities 100% (abilities that in her case seem to be purely theoretical/imaginary). Rather you will always have co-workers/clients whom you might not like and you will inevitably face situations which call for doing things that you feel are not challenging enough (such as covering at the last minute for a subordinate's inefficiency) or that require skills which are outside the scope of your expertise. The question is how do you cope? In Toral's case, you don't; you reveal yourself to be a mass of inefficiency and incompetence, babbling excuses and spewing venom all the way.
ryan506
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:29 am
Well, I have to agree that this week's task was, in a word, retarded. However, given the dumbness of it, I really do think that Team Penis did a much better job of evaluating the demographic, thinking out the entire campaign, and just doing a better job in general. Team Vagina just didn't do a lot of things right--they spent too much time on the character itself and made too many assumptions about it (i.e., how it would appear in non-existent commercials, etc.).
While Clay was--I'll say it--a huge bitch as a project manager, they did win the task, and I'm really surprised that he was able to rein Markus in as effectively as he did. Of course, I don't know that speaking to employees as if they're dogs is exactly the best approach, but... hey, it's still a win on his record, and I can definitely see him touting that in the future in his own defense. That's my prediction.
JuliaCarpenter: And did anyone catch the silly irony of a gay guy managing a team that came up with the idea of a big boobed bimbo to sell the product?[/quote]Well, (stereotypically) we gays do enjoy the cross-dressing campy sorts of things...
Lucy: Hey, I thought the Genie was cool looking. I love her soft-serve hair. She would probably look far, far better on an actual woman, though. And with white face paint instead of a mask.[/quote]While I thought the genie was kind of creepy, I was kind of expecting them to paint up Mark in fabulous diva-drag style (especially with Clay in charge), which could have been truly hilarious. And even more creepy.
And, on the whole, while Team Vagina was generally a disaster, I really appreciated Marshawn's effort to try--and what a valiant attempt--to save the team after choosing not to incorporate the DQ brand into the hideous... "Zip" thing or whatever it was called. I really think she was trying to save a ship she knew was sinking, and God bless her for it.
Now... Toral. Sweet, juicy Jesus. So much to say, so little space...
mak224: Let me get this straight. She wouldn't wear the costume because it would be embarrassing...and getting fired on national television isn't?
Ooookay.[/quote]Bwah! You hit the nail on the head, my friend...
stopeslite: I understand that she didn't like the whole project, but what brilliant alternatives did she offer???? "Rigamarole".[/quote]
beezer beat me to it, but she did actually say "Blizzamarole," which... well, to me, it conjures up this weird mental image of a melting anthropomorphized ice cream-filled blintz begging for its life. I'm sorry. I'm weird.
Listen Lady: Whatever she said ("Blizzamarole", "Rigamarole"), they were brainstorming. The point is to throw stuff out there and get ideas flowing. Not every idea has to be fully formed or brilliant. One person's half-baked idea is another person's germ of a brilliant idea.[/quote]While technically you're correct, it seemed (at least from what we saw) that Toral was only half-heartedly contributing ideas anyway. She kind of rattled off a list of three or four dumb names, then rolled her eyes in a kind of "I don't want to be here" expression. And that was what ticked me off.
jesus206: There is nothing in Hinduism that prohibits wearing a mascot. If anything, there is so much costume and idolatory in Hinduism, a lot of the Jerusalem based religions have a hard time dealing with it. This bitch deserved to go.[/quote]Wordy McWord, yo. I was thinking the same thing--while I'm not of Indian origin nor am I Hindu, my dad is a minister so I have fairly broad knowledge of most religions by default, and I was pretty sure that Toral's "against my religion" thing was a complete load of bullcrap. Thanks for the confirmation.
triggerhappyjack: Because that costume was completely degrading and they could have all had a good laugh at Toral's expense? I mean, not that I don't enjoy a good laugh at Toral's expense, but that was seriously the only reason they wanted her to do it.[/quote]While I think you may be right on some level, it was also true that Toral didn't appear to contribute to the task in any other way. Her suggestions for characters were stupid, at best, and other than that it looked like she just sat around being negative. And, lest we forget, she did have "more to prove" this week--which she made no effort to do.
tiggeril: One of the reasons I hated Toral was because she gave that twangy moron Kristy someone to feel superior to.[/quote]While I... am... more than slightly embarrassed to admit it, I really felt like Kristi had a right to feel as outraged at Toral as she was in this episode. She might be a bit bumpkinesque and more than a little annoying, but Kristi is much more of a team player than Toral could ever dream of being.
In all, a very satisfying episode. Yum, yum! (mimes patting stomach contentedly)
msrayrudd
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:37 am
was on Toral's side until this ep but it was pretty obvious that the blondes were marginalizing Rebecca, Toral and Marshawn. [/quote]
I don't know if I believe that all three were marginalized by the Blonde coven, but the difference between a Marshawn and a Toral is that Marshawn doesn't let herself be marginalized. I'm not saying I see greatness yet from Marshawn, but at least she has a sense of professionalism and always seems to be involved. If they were trying to marginalize her, she did a damn good job of not letting it happen.
The difference between Marshawn and Toral is that when they were asked a question during the task that nobody had an answer to, Marshawn answered it as best she could. Sure, she might have fumbled a bit but it was better than Toral's smirking in the corner or everybody else looking at each other with clueless looks on their faces. At least she tried to make it seem professional.
I do however think that Trump really likes Rebecca though. I said before, she's great in the boardroom and I think Trump really liked her saying she was disappointed with Toral too and basically admitting he was right the week before. Whether Rebecca said it because she believed it or to impress Trump, I don't know, but I think he bought it. Furthermore, I like how she phrased what she said. She said something about how the team would never work with Toral on it, which essentially means just that. She didn't say she didn't like Toral, but the team dynamic won't work with her, which is essentially true no matter how heinous Kristi and her coven are.
Felicia was a nightmare and in any other situation deserved to be fired. I have to believe there is more boardroom footage of the Donald saying they all sucked too that didn't air.
The point is if you're Toral, and you know you're already on thin ice, you find ways to do what you need to do to stay in the game. You don't sit there and wait for your team to fail even if they are ganging up on you.
Toral could have easily volunteered for PM right off the bat. She didn't. Instead she smirked when the women lost and cheered for the men. Except stupid thing is that Toral was too deluded with grand notions of her self worth to notice that she too, who had been warned by the Donald before the task even started about having to prove herself, was a part of the losing team and would be facing boardroom elimination. Did she not remember she was already hated by Trump and company? Did she not remember her warning? Or did she expect Rebecca to save her again?
Funny thing is I still don't even know all the men's names because they have been working pretty well together. As far as I'm concerned, Marshawn, Rebecca and Jen M. are the only women who have any chance at this point. Jen M. isn't great but she has had a few redeeming moments. She did admit to Felicia that them losing wasn't because of Toral but partly because of branding, something she wanted and nobody else did. I give her some credit for that.
Felicia and Kristy are goners real soon.
Jeebus Shuttlesworth
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:41 am
Yeah, I don't understand all the hatred for the "blondes." Even after reading page after page of it, I don't get it. I guess being blonde and hanging around with other blondes puts a target on your head. [/quote]
I fully believe if Toral was named "Tori" and she was blonde and light-skinned, she not only would've been one of the Coven, she would have been their leader. It's no coincidence that they left all the dark-haired girls behind. Toral is a stuck-up bitch, but the Coven was hell-bent on getting her out instead of focusing on the task. It's like in the Martha Apprentice where Dawn's team was only focused on making her look bad (and Dawn was NOWHERE as bad as Toral).
Of the women's team, I only like Marshawn, Rebecca, and Jen M. They seem to be independent thinkers. Hopefully Marshawn realizes that she's becoming a Colin/Condi to the Coven and breaks ranks quickly.
The genie was nightmare inducing. Good call on the person who said it reminded them of "the Carver" on Nip/Tuck. Zip was a poor man's copy of "Izzy", which was voted the Worst Mascot Ever. If they really wanted to be "proactive", they should've come up with a rockin' dog with attitude who's totally in your face. Something like "Poochie," but not as lame.
Hamhock96
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:42 am
really felt like Kristi had a right to feel as outraged at Toral as she was in this episode. She might be a bit bumpkinesque and more than a little annoying, but Kristi is much more of a team player than Toral could ever dream of being.
[/quote]
I don't know why anyone wants her to shut up. She is so funny! "goober..." that was really good. And the spin she puts on the names. I think Kristi is really entertaining.
clairedawn
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:42 am
Rebecca can't get off my TV fast enough. I can't stand her overly simplified self aggrandizing sound bites. She's nothing but a non-stop commercial for herself. "Look how spunky I am", "Look how humble I am", "Look how pro-woman I am." Words come out of her mouth, but it's all self-preservation and no substance. [/quote]
I think this is true...but you have to give her some credit just for knowing what to project....she plays the business game, even if it's somewhat calculated. There are so many candidates who act like total idiots and don't even know enough to try and project anything differently!
pacestick
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:45 am
Yeah, I don't understand all the hatred for the "blondes." Even after reading page after page of it, I don't get it. I guess being blonde and hanging around with other blondes puts a target on your head.[/quote]
I am sure you will get plenty or return posts for this but her goes anyway
To me they have been demonstrating bad behaviour and have been in a clique for the entire show. From talking behind the PMs back (not just in interviews) about how they were not doing a good job or should be more motivating. To out and out dismissing of anyone elses contribution (last night in the van) They ganged up on Toral and badgered her about the costume. Not accecpting her saying no (and using that in the BR to fire her) But using up a lot of time and energy just to lash out at her. Yes Toral had a strategy (which failed) to get rid of everyone else one by one. But doesn't everybody or do you honestly think people enter these competitions planning to finish 5th or 6th.
I may be able to see the clique forming. I still remember my high school days quite well and see the same thing happening with these POPULAR girls.
I can understand the hatered I really can.
Mrs pace said the exact same thing about the girls last night and she doesn't even read this stuff. our computer is a $2000 deck of cards for her.
clairedawn
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:47 am
I think that there is no sympathy for Toral on the boards, but she had a point about how inept the rest of the team was. No one fought for the DQ identification during the meeting. No one seemed to understand that importance at all. The men grasped this from the start. So far, the women only seem to do well when the men do really badly (as in Lamborghini.)[/quote]
Toral didn't fight for it either or understand the importance of it as well. She whines about her team being inept, but she's as equally inept as all of them.
I loved when she went on and on in the board room about how she's so much more skilled and strategic and clever and blah blah and Donald was like "well then why weren't you manager? You could have implemented all your strategies."
Ha! Exactly!
msrayrudd
Oct 14, 2005 @ 11:48 am
Because that costume was completely degrading and they could have all had a good laugh at Toral's expense? I mean, not that I don't enjoy a good laugh at Toral's expense, but that was seriously the only reason they wanted her to do it.[/quote]
The thing was a smart person could have combatted this a few different ways. One, Toral knew the Coven only asked her to be the mascot because they thought she would find it beneath her and she'd give them a hard time about doing it. Toral played right into their hands by giving them everything they wanted and expected. It would have shocked the Coven more if Toral had smiled sweetly and agreed saying something along the lines that it's not something she's the most comfortable with but she would do it for the team. I guarantee she would have left Kristi and Felicia speechless. Then she in the boardroom can say she was marginalized by her PM but stepped in where they needed her to be even if it wasn't her forte.
Secondly, Toral could have told Felicia that she felt she could contribute much better to the project by being a part of the presentation than by being in the costume. However, as Toral is also a sucky public speaker (at least in the BR) they really had no advantage having her in the presentation and she did nothing but smirk on the sidelines.
Toral didn't fight for it either or understand the importance of it as well. She whines about her team being inept, but she's as equally inept as all of them. [/quote]
On the branding, exactly. I would have felt a lot more for Toral being ganged up on if I saw her trying to implement useful ideas and being shot down because she's Toral. After all, as much as it sucked, didn't the Coven use Rebecca's name "Zip" for the character. It was Jen M (one of the Blonde coven) who was shot down on the branding. Toral didn't step up and defend it as a great idea, did she? She probably was laughing her head off at Jen M. right there and saying how stupid she was.
blackwing
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:06 pm
I fully believe if Toral was named "Tori" and she was blonde and light-skinned, she not only would've been one of the Coven, she would have been their leader. It's no coincidence that they left all the dark-haired girls behind. [/quote]I don't think Toral not being blonde or white had anything to do with their dislike for her. Jennifer W was a member of their group, and she had brown hair. For whatever reason, that group of women (5 including Jennifer W) "found a friendship", just like Rebecca and Toral did.
I think they disliked Toral because of her attitude and her worthlessness on tasks. I don't think race has anything to do with it.
CheekyCricket
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:10 pm
I don't know if I believe that all three were marginalized by the Blonde coven, but the difference between a Marshawn and a Toral is that Marshawn doesn't let herself be marginalized. I'm not saying I see greatness yet from Marshawn, but at least she has a sense of professionalism and always seems to be involved. If they were trying to marginalize her, she did a damn good job of not letting it happen. [/quote]
Right now, of all the female candidates, I'm the most impressed with Marshawn's behavior and approach. She'll ally herself with Kristi et al, as she did in last week's boardroom, and in the "meeting" with Rebecca and Toral at the start of the episode, and she'll give them her support when needed, but she also comes across as unaffiliated, and, well, an individual. Smart. Jennifer does something a bit similar, but not quite as effectively, I think.
Because that costume was completely degrading and they could have all had a good laugh at Toral's expense? I mean, not that I don't enjoy a good laugh at Toral's expense, but that was seriously the only reason they wanted her to do it.[/quote]
I can think of another reason: they wanted her to demonstrate her commitment to helping the team win--which she had promised to do at the beginning of the episode--and giving her a less-desirable task would allow her to do that. Again, I contrast Toral's attitude to another candidate's, Mark. He wore an equally silly costume, and took a good-natured attitude toward it, because, heck, no one knows who's inside one of those goofy mascots anyway.
I loved when she went on and on in the board room about how she's so much more skilled and strategic and clever and blah blah and Donald was like "well then why weren't you manager? You could have implemented all your strategies."[/quote]Also, If Toral knew so much about branding and marketing strategies, as she claimed in the boardroom, why did she claim not to have an advertising/promotional background? That was her reason for not becoming the PM, correct? At least that was her stated reason.
I don't think Toral not being blonde or white had anything to do with their dislike for her. Jennifer W was a member of their group, and she had brown hair. For whatever reason, that group of women (5 including Jennifer W) "found a friendship", just like Rebecca and Toral did.
I think they disliked Toral because of her attitude and her worthlessness on tasks. I don't think race has anything to do with it.[/quote]
Bingo! I don't understand why it's seemingly okay to be biased against blonde-haired women, but whatever . . . also, I don't think Toral had any intention of being a leader. After all, her stated strategy was to lay back and let everyone else self-destruct. She's dislikeable, and she'd be dislikeable regardless of her hair and skin color.
tiggeril
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:22 pm
I think we're going to see the same dynamic that crops up on all the losing teams so far. The women will decide that one person is causing all the problems and gang up to force her out. Then they'll lose again. Then, they'll focus on another team member and she's the one causing all the trouble and if they just get rid of her, it'll be smooth sailing. Then they lose again, etc. I think Miss Alli called it the "phone call is coming from inside the house moment," and like the other sucky teams we've seen so far, they won't see it. Hell, for all we know, it'll continue after the shuffle.
AdrienneP
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:22 pm
I don't know if I believe that all three were marginalized by the Blonde coven[/quote]
Here's an example of how you know they WERE marginalized; when the girls all split up and the Coven got into the cab and left Toral, Marshawn, and Rebecca behind (the non-blondes, mind you) they started going over their ideas for the presentation. Blonde W (can't remember which) said something like, "and everyone's ideas are represented." Blonde X replies, "everyone in this CAB, anyway..." Blonde Y replies, "yeah, you know it." I'm paraphrasing, of course, but that moment stuck out for me. They have their own agenda for sure.
I so hated Rebecca last week, and I'm not sure if I believe she was totally sincere last night, but she did seem to be disappointed in Toral, and so I thought it was big of her to straight up say, "I was wrong about her" in the boardroom. It might just be strategery on her part but it was effective, IMO.
Secondly, Toral could have told Felicia that she felt she could contribute much better to the project by being a part of the presentation than by being in the costume. [/quote]
I thought she did do that, did I hear her wrong?
As far as I'm concerned, Marshawn, Rebecca and Jen M. are the only women who have any chance at this point. Jen M. isn't great but she has had a few redeeming moments. She did admit to Felicia that them losing wasn't because of Toral but partly because of branding, something she wanted and nobody else did. I give her some credit for that.[/quote]
Word. Of the men, Randall is the standout for me, and surprisingly, Markus has made something of a turnaround. I still have issues with him, but he could be a threat later on.
outtacontrol
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:25 pm
Does Kristi have no recollection of how fucked she was as PM?
When Marshan jumped in to try to explain to the DQ guys the reasoning behind the mascot, impressive. She's cool.
Toral -- whatever.
DreamCrusher
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:29 pm
Maybe Toral wasn't willing to make that trade. Maybe she simply misread the nature of The Apprentice when she first signed on for it, and then found it to be a series of deliberately embarassing incidents that she wanted no part of.[/quote]
If this is true, she always had the option to quit. I think she is just a famewhore who got what she deserved. Someone ought to remake the movie "Trading Places" with Toral and Kristi. I'd pay money to see that.
BibiBella
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:30 pm
Secondly, Toral could have told Felicia that she felt she could contribute much better to the project by being a part of the presentation than by being in the costume. [/quote]
I thought she did do that, did I hear her wrong?[/quote][/quote]
She kinda did, but with an air of elitism and superiority and dead-weight energy that it got lost in the 'stink'.
She refused point blank to tell Felicia WHY she could not take that task on (despite Felisha - who I don't like - asking her several times to be specific about why she could not do it) and she didn't explain anything about her refusal very well. And despite her "kinda" saying "I'd rather do other things" -- well, at that point, pretty much everything to do HAD been done. They had brainstormed, created the concept/character and were waiting for the costume to be fitted and completed. So with not much else to do, Toral shot herself in the foot with that "I'll do something else". That was the one remaining thing - as far as I could tell - to be done.
Her energy spoke volumes - she thought the whole exercise was dumb (IMO, you could sense that from her), she hated the team's idea and she thought the team (except for Rebecca) were dumb, idiotic women who were beneath her, women she'd never give the time of day to.
With that kind of attitude, she deserved to be fired. And for the record, I'm not a fan of any of the women with perhaps an exception for Marshawn and maybe Rebecca. Allah might be OK too, but the rest are bee-yotches, especially Kristi who is Troublemaker #1....that said, Toral only has herself and her elitist, lazy ("I'll stay under the radar") attitude to blame.
Rabid Dingo
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:33 pm
Toral has no one to blame but herself. If she had contributed to the task, she would've been spared. However, she did not. Toral made it very easy for DT to fire her. It's a shame. Toral has potential, yet she chose not to make use of it at all. Toral was just useless. As painful as it was for Rebecca, she finally threw in the towel on Toral and agreed that Toral should be fired. Rebecca believed in Toral and this is how Toral repaid Rebecca's high-risk gesture to her?! If there is a backstabber among Capital Edge, that backstabber isn't Rebecca. The real backstabber is Toral. Toral just made Rebecca look bad with her own actions (or lack thereof). I saw the look on Rebecca's face. She appeared to be very peeved at Toral and I can't blame her for feeling that way. With friends like Toral, who needs enemies! :x
Why has Capital Edge failed more times than Excel? Those women (with the exception of a few) are somewhat similar to the women from TA2. Can't they get along?! I've been noticing something about three of those women whose tactics really rub me the wrong way. Those women are none other than Kristi, Felisha, and Alla. I find it strange that they had no problems being critical about both Marshawn and Rebecca when they were in charge. However, Felisha made several critical errors when she was PM last night. I find it very disturbing that neither Kristi nor Alla had anything bad to say about Felisha. They only seem to be critical when a woman who isn't a part of their clique is the PM. During this task, the blonde clique obviously marginalized Rebecca, Marshawn, and Toral. They only took Jen M. along with them for the ride, but they ignored any input that was provided by Jen M.! I think they were sort of punishing Jen M. for not getting Rebecca fired in the final BR when she had the opportunity to do so because they either wanted Toral or Rebecca out. Jen M. only followed DT's advice to keep her mouth shut. Now they're putting a bit of distance away from Jen M. and I don't think Jen M. deserves that kind of treatment. The low-blow tactics of that clique has really gone too far. Why didn't they ask either Rebecca or Marshawn to be the mascot when Toral refused? Either Rebecca or Marshawn would've done it. Rebecca may be hard-headed at times, but she isn't one to refuse contribution to the team (even if it meant limping her way over as the mascot). Marshawn may be a bit aloof and hands-off at times, yet she would've been willing to don the mascot suit.
Don't get me wrong here. DT fired the right person last night. Toral was stupid enough to not only give the blonde clique the ammo to go after her, she also gave the rest of Capital Edge the ammo as well. I hope either Rebecca, Marshawn, or Jen M. make it to the final four. The other three women are nothing but trouble. Unless there is a team reshuffling on the next episode, both Rebecca and Marshawn will be at the mercy of the blonde clique.
TraceyBee
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:33 pm
outtacontrol, I was very impressed when Marshawn stepped up to try to explain why there was no logo on that weird little mascot. All the other women were looking around, and Marshawn just said, "I'll take that, if I may" and did the best she could.
Jen's "beauty queen" comments (and poses...ick!) grate, but she seemed level-headed and fair in the Boardroom last night.
While Toral wasn't the ultimate cause of the women's loss, she has indicated more than once that she considers everyone and all tasks on the show beneath her. She admitted flat out that she'd been dogging it. She's arrogant and not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. She's also a horrible debater and a really lousy advocate for her own position - her arrogance and belief in her own superiority gets in the way, I think.
littlelyssa
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:38 pm
Toral was a total waste of space, really. Alright, so she didn't wear the costume, but for her to come down on the other women about Zip was just silly. Particularly considering that one of her suggestions for the mascot was the BLIZZARD BLISTER. After I heard that, I paused the Tivo and reversed and made sure that is what she said. It was. The Blizzard Blister. This was before the genius of the Blizzamarole or whatever it was. Nothing says icecreamy deliciousness like inflamed skin filled with water.
Phew, she was the suckiest suck that ever sucked.
PinkyTuscadero
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:41 pm
Well if either mascot had been good, DQ would have introduced the mascot during the show tonite, like they used Kendra's brochure for the Solstice. I don't see any reference to any DQ or Blizzard mascot on their website.
And I love Blizzards, but ew... next time I order one I will be picturing the ice genie.... [/quote]
I think that has more to due with the backlash they got last season for all of the product sponsor pimping. Martha's version has those type of commercials, though.
But I would have loved to see a cheesy commercial for the mascot a la the Home Depot ad for The Box.
"She's sexy" Joe Blow, Dairy Queen
"She has huge breasts!" Mark, The Apprentice
Pundit
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:49 pm
Late to the party and my thoughts have probably already been said, so briefly:
Marshawn impressed me when she smoothly replied to the DQ execs' question.
Randal continues to impress me in general.
I was surprised that Clay got a unanimous exemption; I didn't see a clear connection between his autocratic leadership and the win. Maybe it was there, but I didn't see it on the show.
Rebecca surprised me in a good way.
I still have positive thoughts about Jen M. (offers good ideas; generally positive attitude) but the promo for next week has me wondering...
Glad to see Toral go. What an arrogant woman. She thinks no one is fit to tie her shoelaces... where did she develop such a condescending, superior attitude? Thank goodness I have never met anyone who even approaches her level of arrogance. I was surprised that Trump did not do a better job of calling her on her attitude. He focused (correctly) on her lack of contribution to the task and her "excuses" but I would have liked to see a real dressing down of her elitism.
stopeslite
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:51 pm
Whatever she said ("Blizzamarole", "Rigamarole"), they were brainstorming. The point is to throw stuff out there and get ideas flowing. Not every idea has to be fully formed or brilliant. One person's half-baked idea is another person's germ of a brilliant idea.[/quote]
Yes, but it was her attitude about it that got to me. It was a bad enough suggestion as to completely silence everyone else, and instead of just shrugging or admitting that it was strange, she went on the defensive, acting like it was a really good idea and everyone else was just too stupid to realize it.
And "blizzamarole"???? Thanks to everyone who pointed that out - I don't have TIVO, so I only heard it once, and misheard it. Or my brain automatically turned it into a word because "blizzamarole" is the dumbest non-word I've ever encountered.
Nutjob
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:54 pm
This was before the genius of the Blizzamarole or whatever it was.[/quote]
Yeah... I couldn't figure that one out either. Honestly, the Zip idea wasn't all that bad. They just executed it about as poorly as they could have. The mascot itself was about the dumbest looking thing I have ever seen, and the omission of the branding was just idiotic. They could have made the character look like more of a superhero and gone that way with the idea. Instead, they did a weird looking God-knows-what that was basically just a set of big eyes and a mouth.
Is it just me, or is James kind of cute? Of course, I do have a weakness for ballplayers, and I came to this conclusion during the reward segment of the show, so...
Sophist
Oct 14, 2005 @ 12:58 pm
My absolute favorite part of the episode was when Kristi/Zip was trying to edge her way around the conference table after the women's team biffed the presentation and one of the DQ executives called out "Bye, Zip!"
tiggeril
Oct 14, 2005 @ 1:00 pm
Re: the recaplet. Love it, Jacob! These folks do more stepping up than the Rockettes, Sir Edmund Hillary, AND Tenzig Norgay combined.
Fluffy Malone
Oct 14, 2005 @ 1:01 pm
Who was in charge of market research? Because they obviously didn't know exactly who the target market was.[/quote]
At one point before the brainstorming, Felicia even said something like "we're the demographic" and how perfect that was. Somehow that knowledge was lost or set aside when they they decided to go with giant eyeballs and a fire hose.
That said, Toral had a moral responsibility to step up to the plate with this task. [/quote]
Please, make it stop!
And I think what says it all is how critical Kristi and Alla have been about the other PMs who weren't Kristi (even though she did a crap job herself) and yet when Felicia does a completely horrid job, there's not a peep. I think Toral needed to go, but really? No one can deny Felicia blew chunks in the PM role on this task.
indigotea
Oct 14, 2005 @ 1:05 pm
Did anyone else flash on the early scene in Carrie when everyone was "STEP UP TO THE PLATE" hounding Toral?
All that Boardroom needed was a bucket of pig's blood and some Toral telekinetic carnage. That would have been awesome.
Nutjob
Oct 14, 2005 @ 1:09 pm
Did anyone else flash on the early scene in Carrie when everyone was "STEP UP TO THE PLATE" hounding Toral? [/quote]
Plug it up! Plug it up!
Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Toral came back to exact revenge on these low-class, beneath-her not-even-good-enough-to-be-secretaries. She certainly has the Manson lamps, anyway.
adso
Oct 14, 2005 @ 1:11 pm
Philistines! Don't you know that Blizzamarole ™ is a stroke of marketing genuis? It combines the frosty goodness of a DQ Blizzard with the familiarity of comfort food cassarole.
Pundit
Oct 14, 2005 @ 1:14 pm
The second time around, I notice what someone mentioned upthread, that Toral was not an issue in the boardroom until she spoke up while Trump was grilling Felisha about the failure in the marketing task. Felisha was feeling the heat and Toral decides to step in and tell Donald what he already knows, that this team employed no known marketing strategy and that they were clueless about the point of the task. She explains that she knows these things and that, had she been allowed to contribute, she could have saved the day. Or something like that. But then the laser beam turned her way. If she had said nothing, as Dawn did on MS, then she would have survived maybe one more week. But she is truly, as also mentioned up thread, not very bright. [/quote]
I disagree. Trump was prepped and ready with his comments/opinions. I think he planned to fire Toral before he entered the boardroom.
clairedawn
Oct 14, 2005 @ 1:14 pm
Um, yeah...James definitely emerged as quite a hottie last night! I have a weakness for athletic ballplayers too....:=)
Was just thinking about the guys giving Clay the exemption. I wonder if it would have been different if Trump had been there in person instead of on the phone. It would have been *very* awkward for any of the guys to break the silence and yell into the speakerphone "I don't think he should get it, Mr. Trump!" I agree with whoever said it also may have gone differently if Trump had asked "Should Clay get the exemption" and there might have just been silence.
When Trump asked the women if Marshawn should get the exemption, it was Kristi's body language that made him question her. "Kristi, you don't look like you agree." And then Kristi spoke up. If he was just on a speaker phone somewhere else he wouldn't have picked up on that.
tiggeril
Oct 14, 2005 @ 1:15 pm
It really says something about how horribly the teams did that I wasn't craving ice cream by the end of the task. I mean, over on TA:MS, by the end of the wedding cake task, I would have gnawed off a limb to snag me some ganache. But here? Nada. Even though cookie dough Blizzards are one of my favorite treats.
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