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Full Version: 4-3: "Something Old, Something New" 2005.10.06
TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery
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ghettofabman
Oh my, what a trainwreck of an episode. Although there were good, positive things that came out of the show:

I enjoyed seeing both teams give back to the community. I know that that had to be a serious humbling and emotional experience. I would have just cried like a baby. I am surprised that not one of the guys cried while in the hospital....especially the guys with children.

I didn't expect to see a Randal/Rebecca PM showdown so early in the competition. I was expecting that to come about later on.

Markus actually did well tonight. He was very warm and relatable and down to earth with the senior citizens.

Josh wasn't that much of an asshole tonight either. I am sure he will turn on that switch next week.

Negatives about the episode:

Clay, what was up with insulting George like that? You are definitely a marked man in that boardroom. Randal's reaction was the same as mine as I watched that Clay insult George.

Although Toral's behavior was obnoxious and condescending tonight, I thought that Jennifer M. was just as condescending, but she did it with a fucking Colgate smile!! I guess it's nice to her to get the old men excited by doing PUSH UPS for them! She really stepped over the line with that one. Rebecca should have mentioned that in the boardroom.

Rebecca is perhaps one of the first people I have seen to stand firm and strong AGAINST Trump and the Viceroys. That took guts. She almost bit the bullet.

Kristi makes me so very sick. Until now, I have always thought that she was not worth talking about. Tonight, the only thing she contributes to the team is hiding and bitching. What else did she, Alla, and Felisha do tonight besides gossip?
Old_Abe

And then when she was going on about being an investment banker which is why it shouldn't matter she couldn't turn on a tv, I rolled my eyes so hard they hurt. [/quote]

Toral's closed million dollar deals. But I'm guessing the Tech Dept. set up any teleconferencing that was necessary. Or maybe her assistant did it.
foultemptress

I thought it was very bad not to pick the underperformer based on personal closeness? [/quote]

Logic? We don't need no stinking logic!
canuck31003
I thought this episode was okay, albeit with some cringe-worthy moments. Some random thoughts:

1) I'm starting to really dislike Kristi (sp?). It seems all she does is complain about each task's PM. Too bad she didn't complain about herself.
2) I think both Toral and Jen W should have been taken back into the boardroom. I'm not sure who I would have fired though--they both did terrible jobs. I wonder if Toral ever read the user manual for that t.v?
3) The men's Geek squad shirts-- I wonder if the men arranged that themselves, or was that some Apprentice sponsorship deal?
4) Wow, I actually liked Marcus in this episode. I thought Clay's question to George regarding men 'his age' ill-advised.
5) Cringe-worthy moment--Toral talking in the boardroom... I actually yelled at the t.v. for Toral to shut up.
6) Next week's episode preview--I think Trump was firing one of the men because it looked to me Trump was looking to his left.

Edit for spelling.
CRFTony

I thought it was very bad not to pick the underperformer based on personal closeness?[/quote]

Yeah. And I thought it was very bad to take someone who the team doesn't like into the boardroom when they didn't cause the loss(Markus/Toral). But now Trump says you should and that he would have fired them. Whatever...
PinkyTuscadero

This is the first episode of this season that I've seen. I generally root for the women out of principle, but except for the one African-American woman whose name I didn't catch, I sort of hated them all. [/quote]

Word. I loved that Marshawn spoke up in the boardroom about Toarl's inability to work a television set. I bet she's waiting for the task where they teach underpriveleged kids how to take over a business and handle a merger and acquisition. Condescending witch. Wharton-shmorton. She couldn't work a remote control.

Rebecca should have been fired. She was way too hands off and knew nothign abotu what the others were doing. And please, lose the wheelchair. Hoping for a sympathy vote? That was such a ploy. You just know that Ereka Vetrini is somewhere watching the show and screaming, "No fair! I let my BFF go back to the suite and I got fired!"

Kristi can kiss my ass. She's this season's Ivana. Always bitching about the PM. Why is it that in every task she, JenM (and her Cover Girl poses) and Alla all get into a Heathers Huddle and kvetch.

Speaking of JenM , what was with her weird, spokesperson.model snotterviews? Someone needs to get her out of that way back machine and get her back to 2005. She reminds me of a cheesy MTV video girl.

Trump's reason for keeping Rebecca is bullshit, other than she went to a good school. Rebecca sucked as PM and let personal relationships affect business decisions.

Oh. Josh? When you're looking for someone to call the team bitch? That would be you.
tone

Jen M's pageant pose bugged me, too.[/quote]It was like watching a fashion shoot.

The seniors were great. The sick kids were adorable. The one's in between I couldn't care less.

Although, I would now like Rebecca to go near to the end. Only because her cast is to be on for 5 or 6 weeks, so it should be long gone before this "15 week" interview process is over.
Swift86
I don't particularly understand why so many people on the women's team were against Toral. There is no doubt that Jennifer W. deserved to be fired, as she did not do a good job planning the event - the presentation was completely boring. I also think that Jennifer M. went too far in having to do push-ups for old men and that she did deserve to be in the boardroom. However, had Rebecca brought in Jennifer W. and Toral, I don't agree that Toral should have been the one fired - messing up on one station does not compare to making a completely boring and dull presentation. And no, Jennifer W. can not blame that on Rebecca, I disagree there. I also did not like the whole scene with Jennifer W. crying back in the suite and getting everyone else on her side, and then talking to Rebecca about Toral. How the hell was Jennifer W. surprized when Rebecca mentioned her name? She did NOT do a good job at all. Hmm, maybe Jennifer W.'s crying scene, etc, was the reason everyone else was against Toral.

I have to agree with Toral and Rebecca when they said that the other women have formed a clique.

I was so proud of Markus! I knew he'd make a comeback. That is the sign of a good leader - Randal - to capitalize on each person's good points.

Clay is getting on my nerves. Surprizingly, Josh did not get on my nerves this week. I still hope he gets fired after not too long, though.

[ETA]: I agree that Kristi is totally annoying and as far as I can see, she adds nothing positive. She criticizes every project manager, but she did not do a good job AT ALL when she was project manager.
DeepInTheHeart
Alla, Felisha, & Kristi: --- (for talking behind Rebecca's back)

Toral: major -------- (for just being such a snob bitch)

Jennifer M.: -- (methinks relies on her looks a tad much)

Marshawn: ++ (nice challenge to Toral in the boardroom)

Rebecca: +-+- (very hard to score her; with Trump on the great vs. disaster assessment)

Randal: +++ (winning PM, unanimous immunity)

Markus: + (comeback kid, at least for this week)

Clay: --- (not good to call out George like that and to pick a fight)

Other than that, hmmm .. no impression on Adam, James, etc.
growsonwalls
I think Toral's an insufferable conceited bitch, but I dont think she was the reason they lost the task - Jennifer M. was.
Bwah, once again, there's basically no one to root for this season except for the always classy Randal. Bring back Kendra.
yadayada
msrayrudd:

She is in a competition and she has sized them up based on her criteria which is education. Being an Indian woman, and not speaking for all of my race, I know that my parents and the parents of my Indian friends who immigrated to give their kids a better life stress the fact that their children should get good educations and good jobs in highly ranked companies.

If Toral was brought up the same way, I can understand where she is coming from with the snotty attitude. For her, her education and her job on wall street define who she is.

I wouldn't call her obnoxious because she has a different upbringing. This sort of chest thumping is quite normal in my parents' circle of friends when they get together to compare notes on their respective kids.
heebiejeebie
"lingering turd in the pool"

So in a perfect world for Markus do turds in the pool not linger? Do they...dissolve quickly? He is such a douche, I actually want to see him stay long enough to provide plenty of funny. So far this season has been rather meh.

Trump saying Toral would have been fired had she been brought into the boardroom lost whatever respect he might have gained for sending home the bad party planner. Toral should have been brought into the boardroom. But Toral should not have necessarly been fired because the coven-lite is trying to find its feet.

Clay is annoying and can go any time for his Toral impressions. But the bitch-caller can go right after. Not real impressed with his self-important snarking on the odd man out each week. Clay and Markus are easy targets. Let's see you go after the sole minority on the team who just lost his granny. Because for some reason I saw nothing in the edit that left me very impressed with Randall. I thought the men's expo was okay. But just that. I did stuff like that in college and I actually thought it was a bit underwhelming. Not bad. But for a bunch of famewhores elling themselves for an extended fifteen minutes, I didn't see anything that wowed me. It was just obviously better than the women's. But in the terminology of Markus, the men's turd just did not linger is all.
Bigwheels1971
I write this as a person who uses a wheelchair: I personally don't think a broken ankle is serious enough to warrent people wondering if Rebecca was going to quit. That really surprised me. This isn't The Amazing Race, where the challenges are mostly physical. At the same time, Rebecca bugged me with her, "I soldiered on despite the ankle", spiel. I wanted to say, "It's a broken leg, not pneumonia."
msrayrudd
I think Rebecca was saved by the fact that Jennifer W. was so weak and Trump and Carolyn both knew it. If Rebecca had spared Toral and then brought in two people who both did great jobs, or great in the eyes of Trumpy, then she would have been a goner and he would have been going off on her stupidity for saving a friend.

Jen W. if not fired tonight was a disaster waiting to happen. She screwed up royally and was a much bigger mess than Rebecca. The viceoroys all knew it. No way would he ever let someone like her work for his organization.

Also Rebecca presented herself much better then what's his name last week. More points in her favor.
LahLah

Toral was in no way, shape or form the reason they lost the task. They lost because the “party planning” was devoid of fun, food and cheer. It was a sad, pathetic little expo. They did nothing to make it an enjoyable atmosphere for the seniors. How was that Toral’s fault? Yes, she couldn’t operate the HDTV but why did none of the other girls go to her and trade booths?[/quote]

I agree- Toral was not the main reason they lost. Jen W did a lousy job at event planning. Like really lousy!
One thing I would like to know is what are people fired for? Their performance overall or in the specific task or basically whatever mood Trump is in?

I still don't get all the Toral hate by the women, unless she is walking around like a snob, I didn't see her make any major mistakes.

I think Carolyn is not as cutsie mean as she used to be, she is just plain ole mean now.
Madhoo
tiggeril, I agree completely. Could Toral have been more of a stereotype? Whys is it that every Indian(kinda) on the show has to be a total elite snob?
Peg Amy
I didn't have a problem with Jen W. getting the axe, but I didn't have a problem with her crying either, since she did it in the suite. She did seem too fragile to work for Trump, but I have cried to my friends after a difficult day at school/work and I don't think it's that bad. Besides, she was clearly trying to get the sympathy of her teammates and it worked, to a certain extent.

If Rebecca really didn't think Toral deserved to be in the boardroom and Jen M. did, why couldn't she come up with a remotely convincing reason for bringing Jen M. in? That was poor planning on her part. But I think the difference between her and Chris is that Chris brought in no one that he could legitimately blame for the loss. If he had, I think he would have lived. Rebecca brought in Jen W, who was most definitely partially responsible. I do also suspect that Trump went easier on Rebecca than he did on Chris because Chris is not a very pretty lady.


I really, really liked Markus tonight. That has to stop.[/quote]
Oh me too. He was so dear. Actually, all the guys were insanely sweet with the kids. Randall was great too. He is my (not very original) pick to win the whole enchilada.
MarigoldSkye
I'm in the minority here (says the person who actually was rooting for Craig last year), but I like Toral. I hate the fact that these women all gang up on one person just to save their own hides. I can't wait to see Kristi matching her "skills" against someone else's when it counts. She sucked as PM, and she did nothing but stand around and bitch. I agreed with Jen W's firing, but I'd have dragged Kristi in by her accent and made her be held accountable for lack of "inspiration".
jonathanacohen
Randal, sorry to be cruel, but even though you won the task, your grandmother Is In The Tub.
Madhoo

I wouldn't call her obnoxious because she has a different upbringing. This sort of chest thumping is quite normal in my parents' circle of friends when they get together to compare notes on their respective kids. [/quote]

yadayada, I understand where Toral could be coming from, but that doesn't make her any less obnoxious. I make a conscious effort to not be like her around friends.
Stardancer2001

I completely and utterly hate the “pretty girls” clique. Toral was in no way, shape or form the reason they lost the task. They lost because the “party planning” was devoid of fun, food and cheer. It was a sad, pathetic little expo. They did nothing to make it an enjoyable atmosphere for the seniors. How was that Toral’s fault? Yes, she couldn’t operate the HDTV but why did none of the other girls go to her and trade booths? Let mega-bitch Jennifer M actually do something aside from flirt with old men because obviously that is the only thing which she is capable of doing.[/quote]

Word Infinity. Why can't women get along on this show? It's like I go back to high school with every task! Toral may be a bitch, but at least I can tell her apart from all the other blonde Mean Girls.

Kristi needs to STFU, for real.
Madhoo
Stardancer, whatever Kristi might be doing, she does it in private - in the confessionals. Toral just insulted every woman out there to her face. She may be right or wrong, but definitely not manager material.
yadayada
Madhoo but if you were surrounded by people in school who were destined for Wall Street and then worked with ego maniacs all day long where snotty obnoxious behaviour is a badge of honour, that inner voice that tells you to behave gets a lot quieter.

Toral's mistake was in believing that she would be working with other women like herself and not whining and catty women like Jen W or Kristi.
alynn

I kinda like Rebecca, but I was lost on how it was that not bringing in Toral was a measure of "integrity." [/quote]


I have to agree with Toral and Rebecca when they said that the other women have formed a clique.[/quote]

That right there is the reason why Rebecca's not bringing in Toral was a measure of integrity. If Rebecca truly didn't believe that Toral was responsible for the loss, and she also believed that Toral was being railroaded, then if she had brought Toral into the boardroom simply because Trump told Rebecca that it would guarantee her another week, she would have sold her integrity just for the sake of another week. So her not bringing in Toral was risky in that she abdicated her get out of jail free card, but I've got to hand it to her for not backing down just to be opportunistic.
NotTheBox

I didn't have a problem with Jen W. getting the axe, but I didn't have a problem with her crying either, since she did it in the suite. She did seem too fragile to work for Trump, but I have cried to my friends after a difficult day at school/work and I don't think it's that bad.[/quote]

But the difference is, she wasn't crying to her friends. She was crying to her co-workers, SOBBING because one of them said she didn't do a good job. If you can't take that kind of heat, you have no place in the business world.
TiffanyNichelle

If Rebecca really didn't think Toral deserved to be in the boardroom and Jen M. did, why couldn't she come up with a remotely convincing reason for bringing Jen M. in?[/quote]

It was like Jen M was the first name that popped into her head when Trump asked her who she was taking in.
Kabelvision
Does something happen in The Apprentice world? After Martha's, now the reward is again to work with the children?

Like I said in TA:Martha forum, the reward is not inherently bad. In fact, it is very good morally and spiritually. It just doesn't fit with The Apprentice customs where the winners are given a taste of the live of a billionaire.
mjs1777

I am an Indian woman and I cringed at Toral's behavior tonight. Did anyone catch how when Trump asked her if she was the only the smart woman on the team, she said "I am the on..." and then went on to say some crap about everyone being smart? What a fucking snob!

Didn't you get the memo? We're supposed to be chilly and unappealing snobs unless there's a nice doctor around, in which case we become simpering twits. Duh. [/quote]

Bwah! It's funny because it's true. Please don't judge all Indian women based on that snot. I was cringing the whole time she was on her "I'm better than everyone here" rampage.

I'm not surprised that the men won. As sexist as it sounds, electronics are much more up their alley. My husband can actually operate all six of our remotes. I use them as distractions for when my baby starts crying. :P
Quiddler

Oh, Toral. Toral, Toral, Toral. You condescending self-important bitch. So which of these women has zero work experience - the two sales executives or the two independent business owners?[/quote]
Coastcat? You hit the nail right on it’s little head.


Toral is pretty full of herself. Loved Carolyn's "Are you saying you're the only one who belongs here?" Yes, Carolyn, she certainly was.[/quote]
Hee!


I think the right person got fired. You could forgive TV malfunctions if you were enjoying the overall environment or other stations.[/quote]
However, the point of the tast was to teach the seniors about technology. And, no matter how great your atmosphere and food is, it won't be able to cover up the fact that 1/3 of your stations is constantly on the fritz. Because the person who is supposed to be demonstrating it? Doesn’t know how it works. If you remember, the comments on the cards for the men spoke of how well-informed and knowledgeable the men were. The women’s? Spoke of how the women didn’t seem to know the product. But, gee golly, they were purty.

Kristi? Shut it.

And …. anyone notice that, at tonight’s boardroom, all the blond women sat at one end of the table …and the brunettes at the other? I thought that was just a little odd.
msrayrudd

I completely and utterly hate the “pretty girls” clique. Toral was in no way, shape or form the reason they lost the task. They lost because the “party planning” was devoid of fun, food and cheer. It was a sad, pathetic little expo. They did nothing to make it an enjoyable atmosphere for the seniors. How was that Toral’s fault? Yes, she couldn’t operate the HDTV but why did none of the other girls go to her and trade booths? Let mega-bitch Jennifer M actually do something aside from flirt with old men because obviously that is the only thing which she is capable of doing.
[/quote]

I don't like the clique either, but it was Toral's attitude about the TV that killed me. Yes, one of the other women should have taken over if they knew how to work the tv better, but why the hell didn't Toral bother taking the time to read the manual and learn how to work it ahead of time? It seemed like she didn't even bother to read the manual because television was so beneath her. I'm sure she had plenty of time to prepare and knew ahead of time what station she would be working. I'll also say again, she is not a good public speaker.

I also don't care what kind of upbringing Toral had. I can understand what you're saying about her background and the emphasis put on education by her family, but in my book that doesn't give you the opportunity to treat everyone else like they are beneath you. I think why it bothers me so much is that it is one of my pet peeves in the professional workplace and have had to deal with co workers who relate to others in such a way. There is nothing wrong with putting an emphasis on education, but it's the personality that bugs.
Nirele

Hmm, maybe Jennifer W.'s crying scene, etc, was the reason everyone else was against Toral.

I have to agree with Toral and Rebecca when they said that the other women have formed a clique.[/quote]

I agree that many of the women have formed a clique, but Marshawn, for one, has never been around during any of the giggle/cry-fests, so if she also picked Toral as the weak link, I think it may be more than cliqueishness.

Also, Toral sort of set herself up by pointing to their "inability to work technology as compared to the men" as the reason for the lost, since she was the only one who struggled with the technology.
blackwing
Who is the dude with the slicked back hair that's all shaggy at the back? Why are some of the men this season almost completely invisible?
dsuggs
I was hoping Rebecca would be fired but wow, did Jen W. really screw up. That said, Rebecca should have double-checked Jen W.'s arrangements. I go all the way back to Bill (first Apprentice winner). He would have been making sure everything looked good. After all, first impressions tend to color the whole experience.

I just wanted Rebecca fired based on her "loyalty" and "integrity" speech alone. Ugh.

ETA: blackwing, I was surprised to see "Adam" and "Felisha" during the credits. Who are these people? Between TAR:Mega-group, Survivor:Anonymous Boots, and Apprentice: Random Extras, I think I'm finally overdosing on reality TV.
baconrocks

Randal, sorry to be cruel, but even though you won the task, your grandmother Is In The Tub. [/quote]

Oh dear. You are cruel and horrible for making such a nasty joke. And I am cruel and horrible for laughing out loud at it. Thanks a lot for making me suck too.

As for Jennifer M., she reminds me of Anna Nicole. Except less amusing.

Also, was it a coincidence that the women ended up in the boardroom lined up from darkest to lightest? Their hair went from black...brown...blonde, from left to right, as though DT needs a system to distinguish them all.

Probably not though, huh?

(you beat me Quiddler!)
Stardancer2001

Stardancer, whatever Kristi might be doing, she does it in private - in the confessionals. Toral just insulted every woman out there to her face. She may be right or wrong, but definitely not manager material. [/quote]

Not always. Kristi was having a coffeeklatch in the middle of Best Buy bitching and moaning about the PM. I just don't like the "dogpile on the rabbit" scenarios in the boardroom just because the majority doesn't like someone. We all work with people we don't like. Suck it up and stop reverting into moody teenagers, for God's sack.
lauriecake

Kristi can kiss my ass. She's this season's Ivana. Always bitching about the PM.[/quote]

I agree. Kristi is always complaining about what a terrible job the PM's doing. I'd give her some leeway if she did a fantastic job as PM, but Kristi was not good as the PM. Stop bitching about everyone else and start working.


But the difference is, she wasn't crying to her friends. She was crying to her co-workers, SOBBING because one of them said she didn't do a good job. If you can't take that kind of heat, you have no place in the business world. [/quote]

Exactly. Women in business don't cry, my dear.
luvrhino
After the boardroom, I can see how Rebecca was one of The Hair's favorites. Though I usually would think that a PM should be fired for protecting in their poor performing BFF -- an offense which Trump has repeatedly punished in the past -- I think His Royal Hairness did the right thing. Jennifer W. was more culpable for the loss than Toral. Given the categories that they were graded on (usefulness, comfort, presentation of the products), Toral was one of many presenters and, due to her poor presentation, was partially responsible for the usefulness score as well. However, Jennifer W. was responsible for the majority of the comfort score in addition to her own share in the presentation of the products (i.e. lack of signage, pizzazz, etc.). IOW, Jennifer's sucking was more heavily weighted.

Of course, Rebecca didn't seem to supervise very well, neither checking up on Jennifer W.'s plan nor making sure the presenters knew what the hell they were doing with their products. That said, Rebecca's articulate, rational, tough, intelligent, potentially executive material, etc., while Jennifer W., well, was nice enough to hold Rebecca's chair for her.

Two other random points:

- Jennifer W., Rebecca didn't stab you in your back. That was your front.

- Like others, I was amused by Jennifer M.'s interviews where she was leaning up against a wall and then craning her neck around to face the camera, but I can't put my finger on why it seemed so goofy. I mean, this is the show that chose to interview Troy on a fire truck, so I don't know what made this leap out at me. Hmmm...
alphaharpy
OH MY GOSH WHAT IS JENNIFER M. WEARING? Are those formal capris? Dress jodhpurs? SOMEONE STOP HER!

ETA: Okay, maybe it's Alla. All I know is, I saw some long blonde hair and what looked like some horribly ugly pantseses.
Magsi2
I was actually quite disappointed with tonight's show. Rebecca sucked as a PM. Toral couldn't even use a remote and a TV, but she sure figured out how to be on the TV for the world to see her snotty self. I can't believe that Rebecca and the rest of the team didn't seem to help with the event set up to make it look more fun and inviting. The guys nailed it! It was stuff they understood and enjoyed and it showed when they were talking about the products. They got that it needed to be high tech with lots of high touch personalized attention to the attendees! The reward was awesome! It is something that will touch your heart, even if it hurts to be there and not be able to do more. It seemed more like a Martha reward though.

Clay can go home now. What was with digging the hole deeper and deeper? Just shut up! Josh can step up to be PM and stop criticizing the rest of the team. I thought he was going to do better this time after Markus returned to the suite, but it was short-lived. Markus impressed me on this ep. Way to go! It's all about the teamwork, and the ladies seemed to be each to their own task and no one was looking at the big picture of putting the pieces of the puzzle together for a spectacular event. Martha was MUCH better this week.
NotTheBox

Suck it up and stop reverting into moody teenagers, for God's sack.[/quote]

Hee. Now THAT's a good curse. Sort of like "Merlin's balls!" (for Harry Potter fanfiction readers.)
yadayada
myrayrudd:


I also don't care what kind of upbringing Toral had. I can understand what you're saying about her background and the emphasis put on education by her family, but in my book that doesn't give you the opportunity to treat everyone else like they are beneath you. [/quote]

Why not especially when her race has been put down by the Western hemisphere for centuries? Look I am not going all "Indian pride worldwide" on you but there has been a rise in professional Indians in North America, some of whom see it as a mark on making it in whitey's world, if not doing better than other whites from their neighbourhoods etc. I think she has the right to a bit of snotty attitude but not over the top obnoxiousness - and I did not see over the top obnoxiousness tonight.
Diesel

First Rebecca threw Jen W under the bus, and then Jen W did her best to throw Toral under the bus. And then in the boardroom Rebecca tried to throw herself under the bus, but her integrity protected her and luckily Jen W tripped and fell into the cab. Truly a bad couple of days for NYC transportation. [/quote]

This is hysterical!
Hamhock96

Like I said in TA:Martha forum, the reward is not inherently bad. In fact, it is very good morally and spiritually. It just doesn't fit with The Apprentice customs where the winners are given a taste of the live of a billionaire[/quote]

What's fascinating to me is that Donald's idea of public service is to arrive like Santa Claus with presents, while Martha's is actual back-breaking work. She is looking for a real "apprentice," who is multi-talented and willing to dig in. Donald is looking for a clone, that he can send off to speaking engagements. In his way, he's trying to find a person who can fit into a "prince"-type role: ceremonial and representative.

Did anyone else wonder what that bit with Donald and the old guy and suddenly Miss Universe walks in and then, what? The old guy gives it up because he got to met Miss Universe? Huh? And then the Jen M. stuff. There was a real subtext tonight and it was underlined by those under the yum yum tree interviews she did, posed like a seventies pop poster of some vague country western singer. Anyway, if anyone else noticed and would care to help me understand, I'd appreciate it.

On the Toral front, wasn't there a meeting between two of the girls where one said, "Toral has to go; she's not our c-caliber"?
Jodeci

What's fascinating to me is that Donald's idea of public service is to arrive like Santa Claus with presents, while Martha's is actual back-breaking work. She is looking for a real "apprentice," who is multi-talented and willing to dig in. Donald is looking for a clone, that he can send off to speaking engagements. In his way, he's trying to find a person who can fit into a "prince"-type role: ceremonial and representative. [/quote]
Very astute, Hamhock96. I think you hit the nail on the head. Having said that, I was crying just a little when they were bonding with all those kids. How cute was that?
Hoola

I don't like the clique either, but it was Toral's attitude about the TV that killed me. Yes, one of the other women should have taken over if they knew how to work the tv better, but why the hell didn't Toral bother taking the time to read the manual and learn how to work it ahead of time?[/quote]

They all had their stations and delegated responsibilities per Frau Rebecca's suggestions. Why would anyone else know how to operate the station that Toral was responsible for? It was her job to do that. She failed, no one of the horribly underqualified secretarial types should have to pick up her slack. Either you're a closer or you're not and Toral proved she wasn't a closer. I'd bet money her resume is padded like a mall Santa, and she's not the mogul she claims to be.

Jennifer should have been fired for "How could seven brilliant women be wrong?" Shut the fuck up. Her party planning skills would be good for a prison, maybe.

Sigh, I'm coming to like Markus. He has his merits, unlike Toral. My biggest shock was that Rebecca was allowed to attack George in the boardroom and get away with it. George is going to be gunning for her.
msrayrudd

Why not especially when her race has been put down by the Western hemisphere for centuries? Look I am not going all "Indian pride worldwide" on you but there has been a rise in professional Indians in North America, some of whom see it as a mark on making it in whitey's world, if not doing better than other whites from their neighbourhoods etc. I think she has the right to a bit of snotty attitude but not over the top obnoxiousness.
[/quote]

I think we are getting off topic and don't want to make this into a racial debate so I'm going to leave it alone after this. All I will say is that I don't agree. I get what you are saying and agree that Indians have been oppressed in the professional workplace and that Toral might have had to work harder than others to achieve what she has in her lifetime. She has achieved a lot. However, I don't think that affords her a right to be snotty just based on past oppression her race had endured. If a white woman on the team had the same attitude, I would dislike her just as much. Both should be held similarly accountable for their actions.
RhondaGC
When Markus returned back from the BR one of the men yelled out “Markus Aurelius!” My husband, the church history professor, happened to be walking through the room at that moment and couldn’t help blurting out, “Markus Aurelius—Roman emperor in the mid-second century who persecuted Christians.” Yes, it’s pretty much a geek-fest 24/7 at the RhondaGC household.

I thought this was a good task in that it was well-balanced in terms of the teams’ strengths. It’s clear that the men were better at technology and the women were better at winning over the people, especially the old men. I liked that it wasn’t obviously weighted toward the abilities of one team or the other.

What the heck was up with that dumb Jen M interview with her side facing us and her head turned toward the camera? It looked stupid. Methinks she’s been in one too many pageants.

They gave Markus exactly the right job to do—something where he was the center of attention and could lecture people. And it looks as if he did it very well.

Toral is terrible and I had liked her up until now. But I had to admire her early interview where she said she would be willing to hire all the wonderful women on her team—as secretaries!! That made me chortle right out loud. I mean, it takes a special kind of bitchiness to be able to say such great things about her teammates while calling them stupid and second-rate at the same time.

Man, I gotta admire Rebecca just a little bit, too, even though I can’t stand her now either. But she sure stared Trump right down in the BR, dared him to fire her, and didn’t blink. And it worked. And I think Trump made the right decision. Rebecca is obnoxious and overconfident, but those qualities are not necessarily detrimental to someone in an executive position. In fact, some would see them as a requirement. Jen W, on the other hand, can hardly talk without sounding like a little girl on the edge of crying. That whole business about cookies and cake that her grandmother liked just made her sound like a 12 year old.

Although we didn’t see much of her, my money right now is on Marshawn to make the final two, or at least the final four. She doesn’t talk a lot, thankfully, but when she does it is usually cogent and well-articulated.
oldbabe
But ... my grandma likes cake! You wouldn't fire my grandma, would you??

Trump is 3 for 3 -- whiny, annoying Jennifer W. needed to go. I've worked with a number of event planners over the years and those people have to be tough as nails to do that work successfully. There's always someone not happy, someone bitching, blah de blah. If Jennifer W. can collapse into a sobbing mess because her PM said she did a poor job, there's no way she's as good an event planner as she claims to be.

The men's team had a theme -- Connecting the Generations -- that was announced by an attractive, professional-looking poster, they had a variety of foods, but most important, they had the skills and the right presentation for their audience, and good set-ups for all the demo stations.

The women had ... grandma's cake with the misspelled theme written on it. <crickets>

As annoying and unskilled as Toral was in this task, she was not the reason they lost, so I understand why Trump's decision was different this week from what he did last week. Creating a fun and inviting atmosphere with knowledgable people was critical for success, and Jennifer W. failed. Trump's gunning for Toral and, based on the preview, I hope she's the one getting the smackdown in the boardroom next week. Can't stand her smug, condescending ass.


I gotta admire Rebecca just a little bit, too, even though I can’t stand her now either. But she sure stared Trump right down in the BR, dared him to fire her, and didn’t blink. And it worked. [/quote]

ITA. Rebecca shares the same condescending view of the world as her BF Toral and needs to go, but I give her credit for holding her own with DT.
Ashforth
Toral may have a "right" to be snotty, and the people she's snotty to have an equal right to dislike her because of it. So when she acts all "I'd hire you - to be my secretary!" and then doesn't learn to operate the TV she is supposed to demo, no one wants to come to her rescue. Bad on her, bad on them. But her specific failure isn't the reason they lost. Crybaby Jen's failure was a much bigger factor in the loss. She didn't create an atmosphere that was welcoming or intriguing, and the huge slices of the "Tethno Expo" cake looked like ass.

Brave little cripple Rebecca received no criticism for her failure. Not the failure to bring Toral to the boardroom, but her failure to follow up on the things she delegated. When did she touch base with Jen about the decor and (lack of) food? When did she make sure that her demonstrators knew how to use the products? Clearly she didn't. I think these would have been good reasons for the PM to get fired.

I was glad to see Jen go, but I thought Rebecca really escaped criticism for her lack of attention to the execution of the expo. Toral's a bitch, but she isn't the only one. We'll see.
Brinswan
Bwahahaha, I just keep seeing Jennifer W's eyes in the cab ride home

"I just wanted to say . . that I am a good party planner" (eyes open up reaaal wide)

anyone catch that. She kept making this weird googly-eyed face. Well it made me laugh anyhow.
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