As said before, Rebecca should never have PM'ed this task (getting used to the crutches and ankle; sleep deprivation to name two reasons). <snip> When injured, I suspect in any fashion but I know in this fashion - bathing becomes a chore - other than a sponge bath, you really can't do it safely unless you have another person standing outside the door. Getting a glass of water requires help. Laundry is an absolute obstacle (and Rebecca may now be limited in her fashion selections). Etc. [/quote]
Good point among a bunch of good points,
Keupi. 5 years ago I went in for minor foot surgery that was supposed to put me in a walking cast. I came out with a CAST cast. I had forgotten the issues you mentioned such as bathing (she'll need a chair in the shower!, and plastic bags around the cast always leak) and simple mobility from room to room. There are a lot of things you can't carry when you're moving with crutches, so you have to ask someone else to do it for you. She is seriously limited by that cast. Not to mention?
Bone pain. Nothing to sneeze at, especially early on. CoTylenol cannot cure everything.
When Trump said she had the option to quit, I was like, duh, everyone has the option to quit, like Verna last season. But does he mean she could come back in another season? That might actually be a smart thing to do. I'd really like to see her at her full potential, and that is just not going to happen here, for at least half the episodes.
Oh, and Rebecca said "Clinic". CLINIC? This accident happened on a yooge-ly budgeted TV show. I'm not a lawsuit maven, but you'd think the show would be able to provide access to
timely care in a case like this, where a candidate is injured in the course of being in the show.
From the start, I said it really came down to atmosphere. I felt, and stated that if the atmosphere had been more inviting, any glitches in the presentation would have been overlooked. Given that the atmosphere was so cold and dark, the presentation team had to do a stellar job to make up that gap.[/quote]
Not just atmosphere--there was no cohesive theme. The men provided reasons that the seniors would want to learn how to use this technology. The women just showed them how to use it.
Black Knight
Oct 8, 2005 @ 2:12 pm
Kristi's watched the Ivana parts of S2 way too much. And why did she look so awful in the boardroom?
I rolled my eyes at the guy who claimed Tivo is hard to set up. Tivo was a really good choice for the guys' expo, although it seems Markus went a little too much into the more advanced features. Really, with Tivo, all you have to do is stick the remote in the other person's hand, turn on whatever sporting event is currently on, and show them the joys of pausing, instant-rewinding, and slow-mo. And have at least one TV show pre-recorded and saved on the Tivo so they can experience the joy of FFing through the commercials.
I've sat through far too many meetings-turned-yakfests where it takes two hours to go through a 15-minute agenda because the person theoretically running the meeting doesn't. I thought Rebecca was dead on with the "everyone say their piece and then we'll discuss" because that's exactly how you keep a meeting from spinning out of control with the very first speaker. I appreciated it and I didn't find her abrasive. Who called her abrasive? Alla? Funny, because I do find Alla to be somewhat abrasive.
Rebecca escaped Chris's fate last week because while she didn't bring in someone who should have been brought in, she did bring in someone else who deserved to be there. As for Jen M., I actually got the feeling that Rebecca brought her in because of the way she used her sexuality, which the editing implied that both Rebecca and Carolyn witnessed. While Rebecca is beautiful and she knows it, she dresses appropriately and doesn't actively work her looks to manipulate people further. I got the feeling she didn't consider Jen M.'s behavior professional. When Trump asked Rebecca why Jen M. was there, it seemed to me like Rebecca was trying to figure out a way to say that that wouldn't sound excessively bitchy and judgmental, couldn't, and went with something more generic.
I think Rebecca might have brought Toral in with Jen W. if the women's team had not ganged up on Toral to the extent that the Donald seemed to be leaning much more towards Toral than Jen W., which just wasn't right. I didn't like Toral in this episode and thought she did a terrible job, but Jen W. was much more responsible for the failure of the task and deserved firing the most. And while with every losing task, you can always make an argument for the PM not overseeing everything enough to prevent whoever screwed up from screwing up and I will often favor firing the PM for that reason, I make an exception whenever the person who screwed up was working in his/her "specialty". If it's your field of expertise you shouldn't need to be micromanaged, and if for all your expertise you can't do a good job, then how can I think that you will handle anything else better? (Complete contrast to Sandy in S3 who demonstrated that she at the least is very competent at her day job.) Plus, Jen W. was just too weak and over-the-top with her crying. It's funny, though, I spent much of the episode thinking irritatedly about how much I hated the sound of her whining and how I'd hoped she'd be fired, but then when she did get fired, I felt sorry for her. Something about the particular kind of ineffectual doormat that she is. Plus I noticed how she helped Rebecca with her chair afterwards - I'm not sure if that was simply a classy move on her part or just another manifestation of her whipped-puppy tendencies, but either way it was nice and I want to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Something about watching Jen M. wrangle with Rebecca's suitcase in addition to her own made me laugh.
I really enjoyed the last shots of Trump, sitting back dissatisfied and wondering how things will play out. I agree with his assessment of Rebecca; there isn't going to be a middle ground here. She will either be great or flame out horribly. But heck, in a week where Markus made a nice turnaround, I'm inclined to be hopeful. (Although I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if it turns out to be Markus whom Trump was yelling at in the previews.)
RainbowRat
Oct 8, 2005 @ 2:22 pm
I'm sure Marshawn thinks the same shit, but we're not getting any snotterviews out of her on the topic (not that they don't exist). But as irrational as Toral's hatred may be, there's definitely something to it.[/quote]
On the other hand, fire, Marshawn did sound sort of self-congratulatory and smug in the boardroom when she called Toral on the "lack of technical knowledge", not that she was wrong. Something about Marshawn's tone just went straight to my hackles. It was the same response I had when Kristi, Alla, and--was it Felicia?--were off having their little bitch-coven at Best Buy.
I'm not all off on blondes, anyway. I mean, I was one myself for several years. These cliquemeisters do just happen to be blondes, but ugly is as ugly treats other people.
Regarding Jen M: Jacob had a lovely rant in Recap2 about people who are capable of blending in and looking normal and boring, but when you get to know them are just as interestingly idiosyncratic as you believe your own self to be. I dislike Jen M right now, based on her pageant-like self-presentation, but that might just be the camoflage that has been working for her up till now. She was wise enough not to open her mouth at all in the boardroom, so I'm prepared to cheerfully reverse my opinion in the future.
MightyThor
Oct 8, 2005 @ 3:40 pm
The guys won because they concentrated on the "Why", rather than the "how". The internet is useful because you can look up old girlfriends. Digital cameras are cool because you can print out pictures of your grandchildren immediately. DVR/Tivo is cool because you can pause it if you want to go get another cup of coffee. The editing gives you the impression that Jacob was the catalyst for the "super presentation" the men's team needed to come up with because of his "Sent from the devil" comment, but Trump actually said something about relating technology to daily life when he gave the assignment.[/quote]
I would credit Randal with the "why" emphasis in the presentation, actually, because I know that he had a lot of experience in grad school doing exactly these types of expos and presentations to children and seniors (as well as corporate sponsors). The display and food selection were straight out of the MIT Media Lab playbook, as well. The editing, however, does not give us direct evidence of Randal's participation/leadership, and I wonder why. Was he somehow genuinely passive, or is he getting the Kwame edit (nice, well-educated, classy but passive black man)? The only thing approaching direct evidence which was aired was the unanimous vote for his exemption from firing next week.
Keupi
Oct 8, 2005 @ 3:54 pm
I would credit Randal with the "why" emphasis in the presentation, actually, because I know that he had a lot of experience in grad school doing exactly these types of expos and presentations to children and seniors (as well as corporate sponsors). The display and food selection were straight out of the MIT Media Lab playbook, as well. The editing, however, does not give us direct evidence of Randal's participation/leadership, and I wonder why. Was he somehow genuinely passive, or is he getting the Kwame edit (nice, well-educated, classy but passive black man)? The only thing approaching direct evidence which was aired was the unanimous vote for his exemption from firing next week.[/quote]
Nope - think Randal did a great job. He was decisive (Markus vs. Clay in TiVo), authoritative, and respectful.
Kwame was not hands on enough. He never in the final even brought up the Omarosa lying - just smooth it over. He also didn't clarify who was in charge of events (Heidi/Troy in the MVP) until asked for that clarification by Heidi. Randal is very different in the fact that he makes a decision. With Clay, he was fine you dissent, noted, move on. He also realized that Markus could shine and let him. The unanimous vote was his icing on the cake. Unless he pulls a foolish, he's final 4 for sure.
MightyThor
Oct 8, 2005 @ 4:15 pm
Nope - think Randal did a great job. He was decisive (Markus vs. Clay in TiVo), authoritative, and respectful.
Kwame was not hands on enough. [/quote]
I totally agree with you. I just wonder about the edit he's receiving, because I felt I was seeing a product that reflected active leadership, yet almost no footage of that leadership.
Keupi
Oct 8, 2005 @ 5:26 pm
Randal's edit is circumspect. He's on my radar as a (note a not the) possible hire. All in all, he was the perfect choice for PM on this task, regardless of how the choice was made. No real drama, took a PM stance with Clay, and didn't marginalize Markus. Since this is a rainy Saturday in my neck of the woods, he gets a okey-dokey A-one overall!
Seriously, he cut through the drama, looked like the event was successful. No one on his team displayed some machismo display. He's cool for a number of weeks. Since Trump says this is about 'leading' one of his companies, I look at these people as who would I work for? Right now, Randal's at the top of the list. Though, we are only through week 3.
Hamhock96
Oct 8, 2005 @ 7:39 pm
I felt I was seeing a product that reflected active leadership, yet almost no footage of that leadership. [/quote]
The same complaint was made about Kendra; competence makes for boring television, so we are shown the unrepetent assy-ness of the incompetents because it's more entertaining and funnier. The competence has been attested to by the vote and the snippets, so it's fully acknowledged. It's just not good tv to show people carrying out a job well. The space looked great, the people were having fun, so were the team members. Looks like good leadership to me.
Maleficent
Oct 8, 2005 @ 7:46 pm
Here's some great insight from Alfred Edmond at
blackenterprise.com.
He really does have great insight.
As a Ph.D., Rhodes scholar and holder of five degrees, it is far easier for Randal to fall short of (perhaps unfairly) high expectations than it is for him to meet, much less exceed, them. On this task, at least, he made it look almost too easy.Wow. 5 degrees? I think Randal's got Kevin beat.
I really wasn't sure where I fell on the topic of the Toral/Rebecca/Jennifer W firing issue. All I know is that Edmond really makes me think twice about Don's decision. On the other hand, I think the show will be better with Rebecca instead of Jennifer W.
PinkyTuscadero
Oct 8, 2005 @ 9:22 pm
At least Toral can state that technology isn't her thing. Event Planning is Jen W's thing. She should have done much better.
[/quote]
I don't understand why, if Toral was TIVO-illiterate, Rebecca put her in charge of one of the stations. Jen was whiny and big fat cry baby...but Rebecca was the PM. Rebecca had the wrong people doing the wrong things and didn't bother to follow up with anyone to make sure they were doing their job. Jen W sucked, no question, but if we're going to count who mad emore errors I'd have to go with Rebecca. Rebecca felt a need to "show" everyone how good she is and just failed in every area.
Kristi has no discernable skills that I can see other than being able to throw daggers.
As far as their being a "pretty" clique...I don't know, call me crazy but I find Marshawn to be ten times as beautiful as Kristi, Felisha, Jen M and Alla. All four of them look like they've been rode hard and put away wet. All of them look a good ten years older than their publicized ages.
The same complaint was made about Kendra; competence makes for boring television, so we are shown the unrepetent assy-ness of the incompetents because it's more entertaining and funnier. The competence has been attested to by the vote and the snippets, so it's fully acknowledged. It's just not good tv to show people carrying out a job well. The space looked great, the people were having fun, so were the team members. Looks like good leadership to me.
[/quote]
I disagree with comparing Randal's edit to Kendra. In Randal's case we saw a lot more active participation. We also saw evidence of good leadership and strong communication skills/knoweldge. With Kendra it was stated after the fact or by Kendra herself. We heard from people that Kendra had all sorts of great ideas but we never really saw how they were developed or implemented. Randal approached Clay and reprimanded him for making negative comments about the task in front of George without alienating Clay. Not easy to do without having someone go on the defensive.
Not to mention, Randal stepped up to PM early in the game rather than hanging back and waiting til an opportune time.
MightyThor
Oct 8, 2005 @ 9:33 pm
I felt I was seeing a product that reflected active leadership, yet almost no footage of that leadership. [/quote]
The same complaint was made about Kendra; competence makes for boring television, so we are shown the unrepetent assy-ness of the incompetents because it's more entertaining and funnier. The competence has been attested to by the vote and the snippets, so it's fully acknowledged. It's just not good tv to show people carrying out a job well. The space looked great, the people were having fun, so were the team members. Looks like good leadership to me.[/quote]
To make a final attempt to clarify what I'm saying, I believe Randal was largely or completely responsible for the win - when I complain about his edit, I don't mean to say that he is receiving an edit which makes him look better than he is; rather, I think that he may be possibly receiving an edit which makes him look worse than he is. An edit which makes him look more like a Kwame (passive, hands-off).
Pundit
Oct 8, 2005 @ 9:51 pm
He gets big points for leadership, successful ideas for the expo, and pulling together a team that was infighting. He deserved the unanimous vote. That said, I've read that the entire concept of the task was something with which he was familiar (not to mention that I think it was an extremely easy task, all the more reason to be baffled when the women's team was so pathetic in more than one way). I'd like to see him in a leadership role in an unfamiliar task. I think he would shine.
auntiemame
Oct 8, 2005 @ 10:44 pm
This is very, very late, but: most annoying things about Jennifer W? When she had her crying freak-out in the suite, she said "damn" or something like that -- and then, when she heard herself, she went into a new paroxysm of freak-out and said, "oh no, now I've cussed! I hate cussing! Now I have to wash my mouth out with soap!"
Way to be 6 years old, Jenn.
ghettofabman
Oct 9, 2005 @ 1:53 am
Not to mention, Randal stepped up to PM early in the game rather than hanging back and waiting til an opportune time. [/quote]
Speaking of which, I am so glad that Randal was a successful PM even with Markus still on the team! It shows that he can effectively work with all types of people without making them feel alienated or ostracized, thus making them hostile and unwilling to cooperate. I hope to God that he wins this.
This is very, very late, but: most annoying things about Jennifer W? When she had her crying freak-out in the suite, she said "damn" or something like that -- and then, when she heard herself, she went into a new paroxysm of freak-out and said, "oh no, now I've cussed! I hate cussing! Now I have to wash my mouth out with soap!"
Way to be 6 years old, Jenn. [/quote]
Oh my goodness, tell me about it! Jennifer Wilbanks was sooo ridiculous last episode with that whole spiel. Even though I think her line was more like "Ahm so fuckin' tired.......Aw, now ahm cussin! and I hate cussin'! Ah feel like ah need some soap!!!"
"Mah grandmaw makes the best cookies and cake!!! They were sugar freeeee!!"
Hamhock96
Oct 9, 2005 @ 8:11 am
I'd like to see him in a leadership role in an unfamiliar task. I think he would shine. [/quote]
Well, that's the part that's so wonderful. Who knows for sure? Time will tell. But he's looking really good so far. The details! Matching shirts at the boardroom! It was like a wonderful performance, the entire task. Plus reward. More great photo ops to bring to the forefront that happy, generous, boy-o team. I love this show!
Lisetta
Oct 9, 2005 @ 10:14 am
I can't stand Rebecca and I'm sorry to see Trump dealing with her rather than Martha. I think Martha, like George, would have called her on the "this team (except for myself and Toral) would only be suited to do clerical work for you" put-down of the other women.
I also think Martha would have smacked her down for "I'd like to see you hire a woman", meaning, in context, to hire Rebecca or Toral as none of the others were remotely capable.
I think Martha would have responded, "I'm looking for the best person, male OR female", and taken the smug look off Rebecca's face. I also think she, unlike Trump, would have pushed Rebecca harder on what she actually was responsible for on the task and what she felt she and Toral had done so well, to warrant all the boasting.
TA:M is not doing very well in the ratings, but I vastly prefer Martha's style in the boardroom. I don't think people (women or men) can manipulate her with their looks/personality/gamesmanship as easily as they can with Trump. In that way--and in the relevance of its tasks-- TA:M is very refreshing.
auntiemame
Oct 9, 2005 @ 12:46 pm
I think Martha, like George, would have called her on the "this team (except for myself and Toral) would only be suited to do clerical work for you" put-down of the other women.[/quote]
ITA, Lisetta. Martha has much better bullshit-detector than Donald, I think, or at least more of a willingness to comment on the obvious BS the contestants sometimes try to pass off as truth. But I don't think Rebecca made the clerical work comment -- I believe that was Toral, and Toral alone.
I thought Toral should have been called on that comment, if only as a warning shot against such rude behavior. But I think what Rebecca and Toral are doing is quite sensible -- the Heathers are targeting them for criticism, and it is IMO very smart of Rebecca and Toral to go on the offensive, rather than be on the defensive. Besides which, giving the Heathers a taste of their own medicine, alliance-wise, is just smart survival, I think. It's easier to take out a lone wolf than a team.
And I guess, despite the unfortunate choice of words around it, the "we're better" argument doesn't really disappoint me, essentially, because isn't that what Trump wants to hear? He wants to hire the so-called best, and if the contestants present themselves that way I just call that savvy self-marketing. Trump calls contestants on that constantly:
Trump: Are you saying you're better than Joan Smith?
Apprentice: Well, uh, she's very smart, uh...
Trump: Do you believe you're better, yes or no?
Apprentice: Well sir, I think we all have our strengths....
Trump: If you're not better than she is, why should I hire you?
So why not anticipate the argument and just come right out and say you're better? I mean, that's why they're there. To represent themselves as the best for the job.
I also think it will be interesting to see what Rebecca does when Toral is gone, which I think will happen pretty soon based on Trump's "I would have fired Toral" comment. She's either going to have to shop around for a new female ally or hope Trump merges the teams sometime soon and that will dilute the power of the Heathers.
Lisetta
Oct 9, 2005 @ 1:07 pm
But I don't think Rebecca made the clerical work comment -- I believe that was Toral, and Toral alone. [/quote]
Was it? I admit that I missed parts of this ep, but I thought that Rebecca repeated that to Trump in the boardroom, as part of her defense for why Toral shouldn't be called back.
As for the "Heather" thing, again, I admit that I missed bits of this, so I may have missed something that made the others look totally in the wrong and R/T look completely vindicated in their bitchiness toward them, but...I just didn't see it.
There was that clip at BB where the women seemed to be unmotivated and uninterested in getting into the task (and I think they all lacked technical skills, which was never addressed), but I didn't catch parts where they were actually, unfairly, trying to just gangup on Rebecca and Toral just to be mean.
I find it hard to believe that no one else was sympathetic to Rebecca's accident except Toral. That's so abnormal that it just seems it's -got- to be the editing. So, so far, I'm not holding that against them.
And since they were completely right, imo, about Rebecca's horrible "leadership", and I didn't see anything so horribly cliquish from all of the others, I'm not judging them as being any worse than R/T were, and several of them (Marshawn? Jen M? still seem...quite a bit better). Kristi can go, though. Soon.
Overall, though, I don't see -any- of the women acquitting themselves very well in this season, not based on teamwork, skills, or on leadership. Yes, Rebecca showed she can go toe-to-toe with Trump and not blink, but she still was a completely incompetent leader and, imo, at least quite unpleasant.
BuonGiorno
Oct 9, 2005 @ 2:26 pm
I find it hard to believe that no one else was sympathetic to Rebecca's accident except Toral. That's so abnormal that it just seems it's -got- to be the editing. So, so far, I'm not holding that against them.[/quote]
I am sure all of them were sympathetic. Toral decided to go with her to the hospital - well, they are roommates and friends, and there was no need for more people to accompany Rebecca. When she came back and settled in her room, I think all of them came to visit with her; I am sure I saw Alla and Kristi coming in and followed by other women. I think they did what civil people do in such circumstances. After the last episode, in which Rebecca and Toral voiced their unsolicited assessment of the rest of the women on the team, I am not expecting any warmth coming from the women towards these two little snobs.
Btw, the clerical work comment was made by Toral. Rebecca said almost the same in the board room, but in a much more diplomatic way (which makes her a more articulate bitch).
quaintirene
Oct 9, 2005 @ 2:47 pm
It's taken me til now to watch my TiVO of this episode. Rebecca? Wow. 'Don't fire me because I'm beautiful...' I'm prepared to bet good money that she's the one that Trumpie called the most beautiful he's ever had on his show. Jennifer did deserve to go, but I'm assuming Rebecca signed off on her event, so Rebecca did as well. Rebecca should have gone just for not bringing Toral into the Boardroom.
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