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TWoP Forums > Current TWoP Shows > The Apprentice > The Apprentice General Gabbery

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Trader Joe

Oct 6, 2005 @ 10:58 pm

Moron women, if you see a misspelling on the cake, take a knife and FIX IT!

Mambo Queen

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:02 pm

And Toral bugs. If you're so much smarter than everyone else on your team, learn how to work the television. [/quote]

Word to "work the television", in both senses. Not only should you learn how to work the fucking HDTV remote, you might want to also consider working the TV viewing public at large so you don't come off as a condescending jackhole.

But I still believe the right person was fired tonight.

Lily Bart

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:03 pm

But ... my grandma likes cake! You wouldn't fire my grandma, would you??[/quote]

Hee. In the Apprentice of my mind, Carolyn got up, leaned across the table and bitch slapped her.

Skinny women don't know nothing about food. [/quote]

Ahem. I beg to differ.

JennaC

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:04 pm

Rebecca looks like Shania Twain to me.

BuonGiorno

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:05 pm

I also hated to see Alla whine about Rebecca being "abrasive." Suck it up, cookie. Business is tough. [/quote]
But she was abrasive. Not only Rebecca talked at them, she talked down at them. Business may be tough, but it is not necessarily one-way ticket. Had this have happened in reality, Rebecca would have been dragged into HR. To start with, they would've hired a psychologist for her, then they would've sent her to various classes, and she would've been on probation for a long time. Her career within that company would've been dead one way or another.
I think Alla's assessment was very accurate. Besides, she can afford not to suck it up.
I think Toral and Rebecca take themselves too seriously. They both sounded very condenscending towards the rest of their teammates. Stating on camera that you would hire these women if there was an openning for a secretary or some clerical position isn't very smart or even tactful - not a good thing, Toral.
I do, however, think that Trump did the right thing by firing Jennifer W. She dropped the ball. But where the hell was Rebecca? Didn't she have some sort of a checkpoint meeting to see how the things go? Why didn't she interfere? Was there a plan? Apparently not. IMO, she did a poor, really bad job as a PM.

Hoola

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:05 pm

However, NONE of the women on her team came even close to convincing me that all the nasty things she (and Rebecca, I guess) said about them weren't true. She may be abraisive, but I think she had a good point - compared to her, these people appear to be morons.[/quote]

Those morons had functioning demos. Toral did not. In a battle of morons, I think Toral would reign supreme. She has not done one thing yet to justify her belief that she is more intelligent, a harder worker, or more business savvy than the others. And when she yelled and went on about her supposed ability to think before speaking, I laughed and laughed. Alla, Marshawn, and Jennifer M. have all done something of merit on the show, which is more than Toral can lay claim to.

Jenn Weepy is an abomination and one of the worst candidates ever. Still, Toral doesn't look that great in comparison to her.

WBBell

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:10 pm

I don't get it. Toral's "I'm so much better than any of them" attitude was inexcuseable. [/quote]
Yes, Toral was an insufferable ice queen. But the reason it went down different this week? Rebecca had very well spoken and reasoned answers to everything Trump threw at her, while all Chris could manage was something like "Homina Homina Homina Markus Sucks Homina Homina". Rebecca was able to sell her baloney to Trump, and Chris couldn't.

Jaded Cat

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:11 pm

Breaking any bone can be a bad thing. Breaking a leg or foot or even toes can screw up everything. I functioned fairly well with a broken arm, life sucked when I broke my ankle. It was impossible to walk on for the first week, putting pressure on it sent me crawling for the pain meds.

I think Rebecca is doing well under the cirmcumstances, physically. Mentally, she needs work. Lots and lots of work.

MarigoldSkye

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:13 pm

It's been a couple hours, and I'm still trying to fathom how telling Donald Trump your grandmother likes cake equals Party Planning skills in any way, shape or form.

YoureSoUrban

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:14 pm

The silence from the Kristi Rules camp is deafening. I guess Melissa just made her look better than she deserved.

tiggeril

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:15 pm

ms alex

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:16 pm

It's been a couple hours, and I'm still trying to fathom how telling Donald Trump your grandmother likes cake equals Party Planning skills in any way, shape or form. [/quote]

Pity the poor grandma if that's how her granddaughter plans her special events.

And she sounded like a broken record spewing the same crappy lines over and over; first with Rebecca before the boardroom, then to Trump in the boardroom and finally in the cab to Loserville. You go girl.

Oscirus

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:20 pm

Jennifer w's dumbass deserved to be fired just because of her 7 intelligent women comments that she said twice, if you are gonna refer to yourself as intelligent you should learn how to add dumbass there were 6 of you not seven.

I agree with Josh, Clay is a big bitch.

Is kristi gonna get through one task without bitching, thats getting old fast.

Toral its a little early in the game to start spouting off at the mouth like that tone it down.

Im a Randall fan and all but do we have to hear about his grandmother every week?

The fact that the mens expo was way superior o the women's and they still barely won shows that some of these events are unfairly biased .

SmedIndy

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:21 pm

First off - I loved the reward and it WAS highly appropriate - because if billionaires don't give back then they're people just like Toral.

Secondly - I think Kristin Davis...er...Jen...was fired properly tonight, even with Toral being Toral. That event stunk.

But lastly:

Dear Toral,

I went to a great liberal arts college. I also got my MBA from a top-20 MBA program. I'm sorry if it's not Wharton, but I couldn't go to Wharton when my job was in Indianapolis and my employer was paying for grad school. I am eternally grateful to him for that - and I feel indebted to him. I also know that there are people I work with that did not even graduate from college (and I work for a college mind you) that possess a lot of acumen and intelligence and can make sound, smart decisions and could outthink you when the chips were down. You may have a lot of smarts, for sure, and so do I. But I make mistakes, and rely on my staff quite a bit to help me make decisions, and sometimes they are right and I am wrong. But I also have a great work ethic, as does my staff, and that is not something that is a product of where you work, or where you went to school. So you can take your Wharton, and your high paying investment banking job, and I'll take me and my staff in BFE Indiana, and we can outwork you, and make better decisions, and not PISS EVERYONE OFF!

I SAY GOOD DAY TO YOU TORAL!

Smushergirl

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:22 pm

Jennifer W was a total amateur, I don't think she deserved to stay on the show. I also laughed uproariously when Toral said that she couldn't work the television because it was beneath her. And I think Trump likes Rebecca because she's abrasive. I mean, he's a New Yorker, for goodness sake. Shrinking violets like Jennifer W don't last long in New York.

tiggeril

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:24 pm

Jennifer w's dumbass deserved to be fired just because of her 7 intelligent women comments that she said twice, if you are gonna refer to yourself as intelligent you should learn how to add dumbass there were 6 of you not seven.[/quote]
Heh. Being able to oh, I don't know, SPELL, also helps if you're one of these brilliant women.

DorcusMallorcus

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:31 pm

Those morons had functioning demos.[/quote]

Well, there's a point of contention there. A digital camera, or a heart rate monitor and a giant rack hardly constitute a demo as complicated as that of an HDTV (which was likely bought the day before). I contend that one could fake their way through a heartrate monitor demo and the digicam demo. And yeah, I agree that Toral tanked the HDTV demo. Lack of preparedness is lame. Being an investment banker is not a very good excuse for not reading the manual...and Toral is clearly too self-important to bother cracking a manual before showtime.

But I'd wager that none of the others read said manuals either - I bet they all figured it would be much easier than it turned out to be, and Toral simply got stuck with the difficult one. And she rather lamely explained in a self-aggrandizing way that she's not a technical genius (I expect she's not alone in that suite, men included), and was embarrassed when she realized she was in a bind.

But in a larger, more real-world sense, I'd like my new hire to be able to call people out on the loser high-school spirit-squad stuff that inevitably permeates these teams. I'd like her not to stand around and bitch about how she hasn't been 'jazzed' about whatever it is she's supposed to sell. I'd like her to not have gigantic 90's helmet hair, too, for whatever that's worth.

Toral clearly didn't lose the task, and shouldn't have been fired had she been brought back. And she appears to be the only woman on the team willing to speak her OWN mind, rather than towing the line of the clique.

I'm not saying I'd like to spend the day with her, she's probably insufferable. However Trump-type business-jerks are by definition insufferable, and she's PERFECT for his job. IMHO of course.

netful

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:34 pm

I wouldn't call her obnoxious because she has a different upbringing. This sort of chest thumping is quite normal in my parents' circle of friends when they get together to compare notes on their respective kids. [/quote]
But this is business, not a social circle. If you want everything to be equal you have to act like everything is equal. We'd be crying major foul if a white woman was singing the same song. FWIW, I didn't even think about Toral being Indian.

Rebecca should have been fired. She's the boss. She should have checked back to see that everything was running smoothly. In not saying anything, she approved of the overall design and food plan. Did she check to see that each woman knew what she was doing? Did they sit down and talk about who had what knowledge and should be training on what device? She talked to the team like they were first graders, "okay we're leaving now, so everyone gather up your materials", and did nothing to earn anyone's respect. Jen would have gone eventually, but Rebecca should have gone this time. The buck stops with the PM.

I have to say though, that I don't blame her for using the wheelchair at the event. Using crutches is very tiresome, plus she needed to be able to rest her ankle. It did look to me like she had the crutches adjusted to the wrong height. You shouldn't be all hunched over when you're walking.

Just once, I'd like to see a team of women who act like...women!!

eurp

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:36 pm

To me, Rebecca is a dead ringer for Sandra Bullock.

Hoola

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:38 pm

And she appears to be the only woman on the team willing to speak her OWN mind, rather than towing the line of the clique.[/quote]

Is she supposed to agree that she's incompetent and an albatross hanging around their necks? If she were able to, I don't know, generate ideas or outperform the other women she would be distinguishing herself. I find HDTV to be much less complicated than setting up a PC or preparing a digital camera with printer. Kudos to all the other women who got their job done. Rebecca, Toral, and Jenn W. couldn't and didn't.

tiggeril

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:40 pm

Rebecca should have been fired. She's the boss. She should have checked back to see that everything was running smoothly. In not saying anything, she approved of the overall design and food plan. Did she check to see that each woman knew what she was doing? Did they sit down and talk about who had what knowledge and should be training on what device?[/quote]
I thought something was hinky about that. We didn't see her checking in, but we didn't see any of the women complain about it either, the way they did last week about Marshawn. So either she was more hands-on than we saw, or the clique decided to ignore Rebecca's faults in order to gang up on Toral.

jewelbox

Oct 6, 2005 @ 11:57 pm

From way upthread:

Also, her [Rebecca's] response to being challenged on not being inflexible -- that she had shown "flexibility" by taking on the PM role after getting hurt -- was very weak.[/quote]
Seriously! I mean, if she really were flexible, she probably wouldn't have broken her ankle in the first place. (Kidding.)

Dorkus Malorkus

Oct 7, 2005 @ 12:06 am

I find HDTV to be much less complicated than setting up a PC or preparing a digital camera with printer.[/quote]

Highly disagree. Digital cameras and printers are plug and play. Doesnt require as much time to learn the basics. Computers CAN be cumbersome but those are a lot easier to set up these days.

HDTVs are full of all sorts of features...and to that point, Toral definitely needed to sit her dumb ass down and read the friggin manual.

I thought something was hinky about that. We didn't see her checking in, but we didn't see any of the women complain about it either, the way they did last week about Marshawn. So either she was more hands-on than we saw, or the clique decided to ignore Rebecca's faults in order to gang up on Toral.[/quote]

I also got the feeling that editing was fishy in this case...the cadre of bitches (esp. Kristi) would have whined incessantly about Rebecca not being hands-on. If anything from the initial meetings, Rebecca was TOO involved and bossy.

Cant make up my mind about Rebecca yet. I do think she was a weak PM and her attachment to Toral could ultimately be her downfall. I do like her determination and the fact that she made the Donald confused.

Bassari99

Oct 7, 2005 @ 12:16 am

I don't think Trump was buying Rebecca's bull about integrity, but he did admire her moxie. Come on. That was a ballsy move, and the fact that she was a woman pulling this shit probably made it all the more appealing to Trump. Rebecca looked him square in the eye, and without flinching, dared Trump to fire her. Chris, for obvious reasons, could not have pulled this off last week. No, life is not fair, but then neither is business.

The other difference is that Chris, last week, did not have a Jennifer W. as bait to divert attention from his poor leadership. Jennifer W. was an unambiguous disaster. She deserved to be fired so much more than Markus did last week, and not because Jennifer W. was whiny, annoying and manipulative, but because it was her anemic planning skills that set the tone for the women's event. The sheer lethargy of it made her easy prey for Trump's wrath which, ultimately, was what spared Rebecca. Toral screwing up the Tivo demonstration eight (8!) times (according to someone on her team) was equally worthy of Trump's disdain, in my opinion, but misplaced loyalty spared her just like it did Mark last week.

Knots Landing

Oct 7, 2005 @ 12:19 am

I think Toral was a pretty good Project Manager. She was too overbearing and she kept her team in line. Kristi will find something negative about everyone who isn't her, so I tend to ignore her when she speaks. The only thing about Rebecca that disappointed me is that she didn't bring in Toral. I don't think Toral deserved to go home this week, but she definitely was one of the two worst players along with Jennifer W. Bringing in Jennifer M. was an extremely stupid mistake.

The mens team surprised me here. Now that Chris is gone, the frat boy thing is as well and I think they realize Trump isn't as dumb as they thought...Markus as well! I was very excited to see him ROCKING this task and proving that he deserves to be there. He may be weird, but that doesn't mean he sucks. He's in this competition for a reason and he deserves a fair shot like everyone else. Sure setting up Tivo is difficult, but old people (from my experiences) love watching tv and could use something like it. They should've been more receptive of what he had to say.

The Donald's firing was perfect this week. Jennifer W. did an horrific job and I was glad to see her whiny ass go home. When Carolyn was tasting that cheap ass cake, I thought they were still setting up. It looked terrible. How in the living hell is she an event planner who plans like that? If she were on Martha's Apprentice, Martha would've beat her with that misspelled cake.

I just can't believe the men did a better job here. The woman should've rocked it, IMO. Decorating was a HUGE part to this task and the men rocked it...how is that possible? After last week, I wasn't expecting this. The women should naturally be better at this sort of thing, they were down right laughable this week. Worse than the men last week I'd say.

Lisetta

Oct 7, 2005 @ 12:30 am

Where's Martha when you need her?

Trump can be so easily manipulated. He would have fired Toral, sure, but not because she did a poor demonstration; just because her team doesn’t like her (Dawn, count your blessings).

Martha would have been disgusted by Jen W’s horrible, horrible expo planning (And she’s an “event planner”? Oh, come on!) But she also would have disliked the “hardheadedness” (i.e. lack of business/managerial judgement) that so impressed Trump. Martha would have seen "loyalty" for the sham that it was. And I believe she would have -hated- Rebecca's martyred speech about how she took PM responsibility even with a broken ankle. Considering how poorly she executed the task, with or without crutches...so what?

Jen W or Rebecca deserved to go, and yet....Trump’s first choice would have been Toral (and -not- because of the demos). He really is –so- much more easily manipulated by emotions than Martha. She would have cut through all of that (and she would have –agreed- with George that Rebecca’s “everyone else is incompetent to work for you except Toral” comment was totally out of line*).

Could someone remind me why Trump was so impressed by the women of this season? I’m not seeing their overall amazing beauty (or even their great “brilliance”, Jen), and some seem too young/immature to be taken seriously in the business world.

*And Trump smacked George down for this! Where oh where is Martha?

ETA: Funny how it seemed DT expected the men to rock the technology task because of their superior technology skills. But actually, they won on the basis of decorating skills--and better milk and cookies.

MightyThor

Oct 7, 2005 @ 12:33 am

However, I don't think that affords [Toral] a right to be snotty just based on past oppression her race had endured. If a white woman on the team had the same attitude, I would dislike her just as much. Both should be held similarly accountable for their actions. [/quote]

As an Indian-American woman (and former beauty queen ;) ) I totally agree with this statement.

Now: Jen W. was the right choice to fire, because she flubbed the event planning. I agree with someone upthread that the same demos, with the same performance or lack thereof, with a better display would have scored higher - and possibly higher than the men, since the women so proficiently sold sex to the old men.

Additionally, Jen W. was reptilian pre-boardroom, using tears to gather Team Blonde around her and programming them with "Toral is Rebecca's friend so she won't take her in." Then she went to Rebecca and first threatened her with "if you don't take Toral in, it will fall on you," switching immediately to "Toral's not our caliber (i.e. let's you and me be buddies instead)." It was that whole poisonous snake/Gollum thing I remember from S2.

Rebecca's whole "integrity" speech was inspired as a response to Team Blonde's "Toral should be fired and if Rebecca doesn't think so it's only because they're a clique. Whereas the other 7 of us are brilliant women with an unbiased opinion that Toral sucks."

Toral, however, did not turn in a sterling performance.

Re Randal: I was amused because he had a lot of experience with setting up technology demos as a student in the MIT Media Lab. In fact, the research group he was part of deals with bringing useful technology both to seniors and to children. So the sense of how to set up a display and how to pick technology which would interest the seniors was something he'd done over and over again in school. A perfect week for him to be Project Manager. That said, it would have been humiliating for him to lose, and the women did manage to get almost the same score with their pushups and whatnot. Moreover, if he hadn't been PM and the men's team had lost, he would have had a hard time explaining why he hadn't stepped up to be PM on this task.

He seems to be receiving a Kwame (i.e. "quiet, hands-off, initiative free") edit. I wonder how dynamic or diffident he really is as a leader?

rsenor

Oct 7, 2005 @ 12:36 am

I still don't get all the Toral hate by the women, unless she is walking around like a snob, I didn't see her make any major mistakes. [/quote]

Toral said that the team (other than Rebecca) would make a dandy secretary, to the camera, without even a trace of irony. I gather she was probably just as patronizing in many a scene we didn't see.

And WTF with Markus and Toral goblet-sharing and knee hugging? Ick.

Obleek

Oct 7, 2005 @ 12:36 am

"there's a lingering turd in the pool"[/quote]

and it's bitch-face Kristi. That sour-pussed, whining little bitch and her emerging mini-coven - EW!

I agree with those who think Toral was not the reason the team lost - even though she's also a turd to me now what with all the ego-terviews.

I like the Team Penis' attitude - "a new day starts fresh" and rah-rah-cakes. It worked for them.

Team Vagina on the other hand - going down in flames of crying, bitching and backstabbing. Ah, the game begins now.

jesus206

Oct 7, 2005 @ 1:01 am

Man, do they pick the worst women on the apprentice or what? Was last year's winner just a fluke candidate who made up for the scores of lousy women on this show?

Rebecca's cute. Her tastes in music and movies rule over the other ladies. And she seems less wishy washy than the others. I'd probably want to date her compared to the other women. But she didn't do that great a job this task. For all her micromanaging, why didnt she have a team help Jennifer W out with the most important task? With all her micromanaging, how did the bad arrangements come as a shock to her?

KRISTI'S GOTTA DIE!. That bitch gets on my nerves. She's got the brattiest expressions.

JENNIFER W = Runaway Bride Wilbanks??? Same First Name and Last Initial? Same crazy eyes with a different. Slanty and not like the bugging out version we saw on those news reports. same crazy expressions on her face.

Lisetta

Oct 7, 2005 @ 1:02 am

Team Vagina on the other hand - going down in flames of crying, bitching and backstabbing. [/quote]
Oh, no. Please.

Not. Again.

MightyThor

Oct 7, 2005 @ 1:12 am

Team Vagina on the other hand - going down in flames of crying, bitching and backstabbing.[/quote]

Oh, no. Please.

Not. Again. [/quote]

They're cute, though. I'd hire them as secretaries.

polka dots

Oct 7, 2005 @ 1:18 am

canuck31003:

3) The men's Geek squad shirts-- I wonder if the men arranged that themselves, or was that some Apprentice sponsorship deal?[/quote]

Sponsorship deal, sort of. Best Buy's tech support group is called "the Geek Squad" and they all have shirts (and VW bugs) with those logos.

PinkyTuscadero:

Kristi can kiss my ass. She's this season's Ivana. Always bitching about the PM. [/quote]

Word. Kristivana needs to STFU. She can go jazz herself.

Swift86:

Hmm, maybe Jennifer W.'s crying scene, etc, was the reason everyone else was against Toral.[/quote]

I think it was a combination of that and Toral's genuinely stinky bitchface ass.

msrayrudd:

Jen W. if not fired tonight was a disaster waiting to happen. She screwed up royally and was a much bigger mess than Rebecca. The viceoroys all knew it. No way would he ever let someone like her work for his organization.[/quote]

ITA. That's why it didn't bother me that much that Rebecca didn't bring in Toral (although, god, what a bitch) or that Jen W. was subsequently fired. She was quite shaky. If being criticized for her work is enough to make her crumble that badly, imagine what would happen if she became PM and she ran into a few obstacles (as is bound to happen). The waterworks would be endless.

I'm a bit ambivalent about Rebecca. I can definitely see what Trump is saying about her either being really great or a total disaster. Toral is a stupid bitch and, generally, I'm not too fond of people who are friends with stupid bitches but Rebecca came off very strong (although, yes, some of her arguments were quite stupid, but in general, she exuded strength and confidence) in the BR and that's worth something.

Quiddler:

And …. anyone notice that, at tonight’s boardroom, all the blond women sat at one end of the table …and the brunettes at the other? I thought that was just a little odd.[/quote]

Too...many...blonde jokes. Must...resist.

luvrhino:

Jennifer W., Rebecca didn't stab you in your back. That was your front.[/quote]

Hee!

Knick:

My favourite moment was still the beginning when everyone saw Markus come in.

There was ten seconds of dead silence, and then all the men gave a start, like they suddenly remembered they were supposed to clap. [/quote]

I was going to mention that myself, but you beat me to it. That was the best. reaction. ever. The collective pause was just long enough to be totally awkward and totally hilarious.

Okay, now for some other points:

- I don't know if anyone else caught this, but at the very beginning of the ep, Mark gave an interview that was basically recapping the situation. He said, and I quote, "Chris and Markus is in the boardroom." Did Mark just like, skip all of his third grade grammar lessons or something?

- We know Toral is full of bullshit because she told Markus (with a straight face) that he was "smart and articulate." I know, I know, Markus was a vast improvement in this task, but at the time, I just thought Toral had had too much wine or something.

- Toral's line about hiring the women for secretarial or administrative work was the most backhanded compliment I've ever heard. I HATE backhanded compliments. Such passive aggressive bullshit. Let's not even talk about the television, Toral. You ass.

- I loved how Trump explained the reward to Team Spreadsheet. His funny little way of speaking/shouting always gives me the giggles. I got to relive the whole "LamBORghini" moments. Sigh. Loved it. Anyway, his explanation came off sounding. like. this. "You're going to give stuff. To children. In the hospital. Who are suffering. And sick. And it will be good. In the hospital. With the children." It would be so hilarious if Trump had a cue card guy and the cue card guy just wanted to fuck with him one day and just added random commas and periods and exclamation marks all over his speeches.

sugahoney77

Oct 7, 2005 @ 1:26 am

The women lost because of Toral. They only lost by a couple tenths of a point and they could have easily won if Toral was more knowledgeable with the TV. If she was so "above" all of that, she should have asked Marshawn for help or at least passed out cake instead. I also think it was terribly stupid for Rebecca to bring in Jennifer M when she probably helped the women get good scores, even though it was due to her sexuality.

I agree with those who think Rebecca was a terrible PM. She never overlooked anything. If she relied all of the event planning on Jennifer W then it was her fault for the ugly setup. She had no right to complain on how crappy it looked when she didn't discuss with Jen what they needed before hand. But then again Jennifer W grated on my nerves anyways so whatever.

I actually don't mind these ladies. Even though they can get catty, it's not as unbearable as those biyatches in season 2.

Batrochides

Oct 7, 2005 @ 1:27 am

I was intrigued by Trump's sitting awkwardly in his chair after the firing, looking either contemplative or quietly disgusted, as if he was wishing that the current season had reached the point where a double firing wouldn't have screwed up the schedule.

It looked like DT was ready to fire Rebecca off the bat on principle (i.e. not acceding to His Hairness's anvil-like hints about who should have been brought in), but he was impressed enough by her boardroom gumption to turn his wrath to Jennifer W, who deserved to be canned not just for performing disastrously in an area where she was supposed to be experienced, but for practically crumbling into a emotional heap before Trump's eyes.

illogic

Oct 7, 2005 @ 2:01 am

The women lost because of Toral. They only lost by a couple tenths of a point and they could have easily won if Toral was more knowledgeable with the TV. If she was so "above" all of that, she should have asked Marshawn for help or at least passed out cake instead.[/quote]

Or, on that note, one of the other women could have seen she was struggling with the TV and given her an assist instead of polishing their long knives.

We saw Toral's smug, superior attitude, sure, but her big sin during the actual task was not understanding how to work the TV menu. And the three blond-blondes decided early on that they weren't inspired, before the event even started. After that, they just had to figure out who they weren't inspired by.

KerleyQ

Oct 7, 2005 @ 2:02 am

But she was abrasive. Not only Rebecca talked at them, she talked down at them. Business may be tough, but it is not necessarily one-way ticket. Had this have happened in reality, Rebecca would have been dragged into HR. To start with, they would've hired a psychologist for her, then they would've sent her to various classes, and she would've been on probation for a long time. Her career within that company would've been dead one way or another.
[/quote]

I wish I worked at the companies you've worked at. The bosses in both companies I've worked for since getting my degree could make Rebecca look like a dream, and not the least bit abrasive. There are managers all over the place who regularly talk down to and/or rub their employees the wrong way. I do think she will need to ease up a bit on the attitude if she wants to win (treat her team like Kendra did, not like Tana), but I definitely think she was not abrasive to the point of no return there. Certainly not censured by HR-level problems.

I loved Clay calling George old. I loved it even more when the editing later showed the old guy encouraging George to sample the spread, and then they showed George sitting down eating. I feared we were headed for some resident thinking he was the new guy living in the home. But, seriously, Clay? Not the way to go. I worked for a woman who was very overweight, but I never would have asked her "so, do women of your size....range...." That's just career suicide. I thought for sure that if the men lost, George might be circling that carcass in the boardroom.

But, I knew the women would lose the instant we saw one of them spout off about women just knowing how to communicate with the elderly better. Admittedly, none of the women tried to lump George into the elderly box, but every time we see one of them spouting off about how their team has a predetermined edge in a project? It doesn't end well for their team. The editors are hardly subtle about this.

Kristi's plan is pretty clear to me. She volunteered to be the project manager week one, thinking "OK, I've got it out of the way, no one can say I didn't step up." Now, she plans to spend the rest of her time bitching about every PM and sowing seeds for everybody but her to be dragged into the boardroom. I'm hoping eventually, some PM catches on and really pays attention to how she performs, and her subversive ass ends up in the boardroom.

I think Trump made the right decision. You have a woman who touts herself as an event planner, and she shows up with a crappier spread than you'd get at a junior high mixer. I organized my son's 3rd birthday party better than that. And, the cake had his name and "Happy Birthday" spelled right on it. Not only was it not appealing in the way it looked, but there was Jennifer W blandly saying to everyone "do you want some cake or punch or something?" There was hardly anything welcoming or enthusiastic about her presentation.

I don't think bringing Jennifer M in was such a bad idea if Rebecca had witnessed the incident where Carolyn was watching Jennifer M demonstrate the heart rate monitor for the old man. Carolyn very clearly looked dismayed by the while thing. If Rebecca saw that, she may have counted on Carolyn bringing that up.

I can't decide who to hate--Toral or the blondes. The mini-coven obviously making fun of Toral and her conversation with Markus was all kinds of wannabe mean girls shitty. But, Toral's whole "I'm above all of you" attitude was repulsive. And her attitude of entitlement in the boardroom was a huge turnoff. She acted like it was not at all a huge gesture on Rebecca's part to let her go upstairs. Trump had to point out to her, specifically, that because of Rebecca, she was going back upstairs while Rebecca would be sweating it out and possibly being sent home. Rebecca saved her skin, and I don't think Toral is the least bit grateful or humbled by that. She just thinks "She's right, I am the best one here."

If the mini-coven used that damn 7 amazingly intelligent women spiel one more time, I was really hoping Carolyn would smack them down with a criticism of the event planning.

I kind of wonder if one of the reasons Trump let Rebecca pass on not taking the person he HEAVILY hinted into the boardroom may be some lingering regret he has about last week. He clearly liked Chris and wanted him around longer, and mabe he just didn't want to send home another person he saw potential in as long as they gave him a viable option (i.e. Jennifer Weepy).

polka dots

Oct 7, 2005 @ 2:10 am

There are managers all over the place who regularly talk down to and/or rub their employees the wrong way. [/quote]

I think the problem with this is that all the women on the team see themselves as equals (if not superior to everyone else) and therefore resent someone giving them orders as "harshly" as Rebecca did even though she's clearly the leader and, really, what the hell else is she supposed to do? I didn't think her leadership was all that "abrasive" either. Certainly, it was lacking in overseeing but I didn't get the feeling that she was being a bitch when she was leading their meeting.

but every time we see one of them spouting off about how their team has a predetermined edge in a project? It doesn't end well for their team. The editors are hardly subtle about this.[/quote]

Although Randal did the exact same thing. He said that the last thing he did with his grandmother was take a picture of her on his cell phone (or something) and that this, somehow, would give them some sort of edge. I'm very sorry for your loss, Randal, but what? Come again? But, on the other hand, the women were portrayed as being way more obnoxious and cocky about their "edge."

I can't decide who to hate--Toral or the blondes. [/quote]

I say push the whole damn lot of them off the balcony.

ghettofabman

Oct 7, 2005 @ 2:49 am

JENNIFER W = Runaway Bride Wilbanks??? Same First Name and Last Initial? Same crazy eyes with a different. Slanty and not like the bugging out version we saw on those news reports. same crazy expressions on her face. [/quote]

I knew that I had noticed her from somewhere! In the words of Nancy Grace, "She definitely deserved to fryyyyyy for that horrible, horrible crock of a planned event!"

RDJisAOK

Oct 7, 2005 @ 3:27 am

UGH! I am sick and tired of the crap the Apprentice women pull on minorities on their team. Stacie J in season 2 and now Toral in season 4. [/quote]

Must we pull the race card? Toral was fucking annoying and that's why they didn't like her.

*And also? Tivo isn't hard to set up at all. In fact, they couldn't make it any easier.

Midnightmom

Oct 7, 2005 @ 4:12 am

Trump kills me sometimes. DoNATing all those electronics, [/quote]

The men got to give away thousands of dollars (emphasis by the Hair) of electronic equipment.......................but.................if I heard/understood the Donald correctly, they were supplied by Best Buy and NOT by him.

I also wonder who chose all that stuff. Don't you need a tv to use an X-Box? Could the patients hook up to the hospital equipment? When they gave video players, did they also provide some movies to watch?

Back to the task itself. It seemed that the men understood the idea of showing the elderly folks how the technology would/could improve their lives, AND, they were more hands on than the women were. It was also a good idea for them to wear similar clothing...........they were easily identifiable.

As for Carolyn, I think she is just getting tired of going off on these stupid assignements with these stupid contestants (oops! candidates) and she just wants to go back to doing her job.

If this is the producers' idea of extended boardroom scenes, maybe they need to be taken into the boardroom and someone should be fired!!! I want to see more input from George and Carolyn BEFORE the apprenti are brought back into the room to see who will be guilliotined that session.

cristobal

Oct 7, 2005 @ 5:06 am

"I would have to say that there are a group of women here that have seemed to have banded together based on the fact that they have no work experience. (the editors show us Felisha, Kristi, and the two Jens) I like them all on the personal level. I think they're cute people. If I had a secretary job or an administrative job I would happily hire any of these people."[/quote].

I wanted Toral out that very second. Condescending bitch. “They’re great ya’ll, and I’m sure they would remember I take two sugars.”

Jen W and Toral were, I thought, pretty close calls on the who should be fired thing. If you can’t get ‘em in, you can’t teach them. And once they’re there, knowing what you’re talking about is pretty much a requirement. Toral, would it have killed you to read the instruction manual and you know, maybe practice a little, before teaching the oldsters how to use TIVO? And if TIVO is so difficult to operate, couldn’t they have gone with NOT bringing in TIVO? I believe that’s what the guys did, and it apparently worked.

Alla and the other blonds – While it would be nice having a PM getting you jazzed, it’s just not something that happens in business all the time. Part of being part of a team is to jazz yourself up. A business team is different that a Girl Scout troop. Alla especially bugged because she’s been my favorite on the women’s team. How dare she not live up to my completely unrealistic expectations of her! Ah, she’s still #1.

And Markus? What a turn around! Focused, communicated well. The floating turd? Beautiful. I actually liked him. He is either a man who really does learn from his mistakes, or the editors have decided to play very nice.

Randal, you did so well. You used your team members in areas that they excelled in. And they apparently appreciated you for it as you got a unanimous immunity vote from your team.

The women's food sucked. I’d pretty much have been planted by the boy team food line. Lovely cheeses and such. Gets me every time. Icky cakey things? Not so much. Regarding the food layout in general, the women’s team was doing a kid’s party, the men seemed to realize they were serving/dealing with/teaching actual adults. Balloons aside. You do not treat old people like children. They hate that.

nubbs

Oct 7, 2005 @ 5:18 am

Kristi is dead to me. How far were they into the task before she had her little crankfest at BestBuy? And she's wondering about 'low energy'. From having worked on many teams, low energy is usually stems team members determined to be malcontents from the get go.

Somehow, I keep expecting Kristi to use the word 'cheerocracy'. I don't know why.

Incidentally, has 'thrown under a bus' replaced 'thrown to the wolves' in regular English usage or just amongst the Apprenti? Stunned expression.

Jenn W 'And I don't even like cussin', I want to put a bar of soap in my mouth.' Pfft. How about a sock?

It would be funny if one the crew leaked the 'I'd hire them as admin assistants' diatribe to the rest of the amazingly intelligent women.

comfortablynumb

Oct 7, 2005 @ 5:24 am

Funniest line of the night (paraphrased):

JenM - see, my heart beat is 113.

OldGuy - that's fast. I'm exciting you.

It made the entire show, especially with her posing and the camera shots of her ass while doing push ups. (which was sickening)

Since when do men call each other "bitches?" When they're gay? I thought that was bizarre.

goobaletta

Oct 7, 2005 @ 6:42 am

I don't know about y'all, but I've been humming Kenny Loggins ever since Markus' turd remark. And *snerk* to the candybar commentator.

But she was abrasive. Not only Rebecca talked at them, she talked down at them. [/quote]I thought she spoke to them as if they were very young children. She had a definite kindergarten teacher tone in her voice. The thing is, I'm not so sure that was an incorrect decision on her part considering their behavior.

Kristi = HATE! (™Sars) Every week she makes me more embarrassed that she's Southern.

I was appalled at the George disrespect. That idiocy will definitely come back to haunt the perpetrator, unless of course he doesn't make it to the BR until a week when Bill's subbing. He may slide then.

Toral? I don't care for many of the women on your team, but damn bitch. I sure as shit would be on your ass after that secretary remark. You will be going down for that attitude. Maybe not until much later in the season, but your assiness, which is at the Omarosa arrogance level btw and that is no proud accomplishment, has doomed you.

Kaylee529533

Oct 7, 2005 @ 6:52 am

Toral's line about hiring the women for secretarial or administrative work was the most backhanded compliment I've ever heard. I HATE backhanded compliments. Such passive aggressive bullshit. Let's not even talk about the television, Toral. You ass.[/quote]

I'm not sure she meant it as a backhanded compliment, I think that she meant it as an outright insult. I think she's outright agressive, and no passive about it. I agree that she's not a nice woman, and I don't see her winning, but she may be the most business-savvy--we'll just never know because the tasks don't generally test for that all the time. One reason she failed with that tv is because she thought it was beneath her--but equally important is the same reason these sorts of things happen on TA all the time: there's not enough time to familiarize yourself with the equipment. The fact is, these TA tasks should be a week long to make them true tests. Instead they are a rushed few days, and frankly it's a miracle most of them come out as coherently as they do. True planning means putting stuff on a back burner for a day, go back to it with a fresh mind, and tinker with it. There's no time for that on TA.

Brendino

Oct 7, 2005 @ 6:53 am

I also wonder who chose all that stuff. Don't you need a tv to use an X-Box? Could the patients hook up to the hospital equipment? [/quote]

There could have been a great moment in there: "Hey, Little Johnny, here's how the X-Box works...first you plug it in somewhere [yanks out the kid's life support plug to make room] and then you get all these cool options [as Little Johnny gasps for air in the background]..."

ghettofabman

Oct 7, 2005 @ 7:05 am

Is it just me or does anyone else think that the guys who are coasting under the radar are all trying to use Kendra's strategy from last season? I guess it is an okay strategy, the problem is that too many guys are adopting it (see Josh, Adam, Brian, and James).

It seems to me that the guys are volunteering others to become PMs instead of volunteering themselves. That is what it looked like to me when they all resoundingly exclaimed "Randal is the PM for this task!" They did the same thing to Markus in the first task. I also happen to think that Josh is the main one behind volunteering others for the PM position because he is too much of a bitch to step up himself!

musichic2000

Oct 7, 2005 @ 7:31 am

...

heebiejeebie

Oct 7, 2005 @ 7:35 am

For me the whole Toral versus the Blonde mini-coven is a chicken versus egg thing. I'm not all that sure which came first. toral's gratingly superior attitude or the group-hate. The edit with her talk to Markus was so heavily edited I'm not sure if the other actually heard what she said in that context. The one shushed everyone else but then the scene ended with Markus sitting across the kitchen talking to Toral. With the same blonde right there.

And I have mixed feelings about Marshawn as well. Yes she was right in that Toral apparently flubbed her presentation. But the scene shown with Marshawn watching had her two feet from Toral and I didn't see Marshawn doing anything. At all. But I give her a bit of a pass because Toral is abrasive and there might not have been a way to step in to help without ruffling Toral's feathers. Still, it was not the breaking moment for the task. Simply because not every participant in the ladies's event necessarily took part in the HDTV demo. Every one of them though was exposed to Jennifer W.'s party planning.

And I thought Rebecca was firm and slightly patronizing. But in no way was she a horror as PM that we saw. At least in terms of what I have been exposed to. The fact that there were no major gaffes shown means she probably did a pretty good job. But I tend to think the editing was extremely heavyhanded in hindsight. Edited to portray Toral at her most controversial harshness (in which she really gave them the goods, didn't she?) and provide a counterpoint to the two previous weeks. I think Toral's escape was supposed to be last night's watercooler moment and production went out of their way to establish that. And we are complying! Still, it would have been nice to see if Toral every did any of her demo correctly and really it would have been nice to see if anyone else flubbed up, even if not as badly. I, too, would have liked to see more of what Rebecca was like as PM during the actual task.

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