TWoP Forums > 4-2: "There's No 'I' In Team" 2005.9.29

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Bassari99

Sep 29, 2005 @ 9:49 pm

I thought the execution of the women's ad campaign was amateurish and hackneyed, but they at least got the gist of what advertising is supposed to do. That is, appeal to the emotions of the consumer. I thought Alla's contribution to the campaign, asking the consumer "do you need permission?" was near genius. It was provocative and just the right kind of appeal for those in the market for a high-performance luxury sportscar.

It was the Capital Edge team's choice to give Marshawn the exemption. I don't think they were being diplomatic (Alla, for one, doesn't strike me as the type). A few may have been griping at the time they were forced to edit the TV ad without oversight, but must have realized that, in the end, that was an effective strategy and that is spoke volumes about Marshawn's trust in their abilities.

blackwing

Sep 29, 2005 @ 9:52 pm

I don't like Markus. I don't understand why he got so much praise from Trump for pointing out during the actual sales pitch that he was against making the car green. In the past, he fired Tammy for not being a team player when she said the other team duped them. How is this any different? During the actual presentation, he tells the guy judging the presentation that he thought it was a bad idea. Not exactly team unity there. I would have fired Markus for that. If I were Chris, I would have focused more on that.

During Trump's "last year Omarosa got hit with a piece of cee-ment" bit, I noticed that we saw and hear a lot of them laughing, but you can see Randall's mouth in the background and it didn't move. I didn't think that was very classy of Trump. He might have said, "if you remember, this is the place where Omarosa got hit with cement" and leave it at that. No need to get in the dig about the "brick".

The Randall funeral shots were completely and utterly unnecessary. So basically, the guy got a pass this week because he missed the entire task. Sucks that his grandmother died. But it looks like Rebecca is going to have to make a choice. Stay in the game and live with the pain vs. have surgery and take yourself out. Why does Randall get a pass but Rebecca doesn't?

LolaLilaLilly

Sep 29, 2005 @ 9:53 pm

Anyone else wonder why the guys just simply didn't change the font to one that didn't make the capital "I" in Italian look like a 7?

What I noticed wasn't so much that the "I" looked like a 7, but that it kind-of blended with the "t" to look like an "H."

Why not just use another font? Certainly sacraficing using a paticular font would've been benifical over making a major gramatical error.

(Which isn't that big a deal, using all lower-cases is a style choice I've seen plenty of times, but ALL of the letter would hae to be lc, not just select ones.)

lostcawz

Sep 29, 2005 @ 9:54 pm

I totally agree with the firing of Chris, I just don't agree with George's attack about marginilizing Markus. Maybe Chris never explained his reasoning well, but for me, it indicates some bad things about how this seasom may go. I hope I'm wrong though, as I really want to enjoy TA like I did it's first season.

askew

Sep 29, 2005 @ 9:54 pm

There's a huge difference between "babysitting" your employees and not having any imput into an important project at all, IMO. By waiting until the project was finished, it was most likely too late to make any significant changes to the video presentation. It would have made more sense for Mershawn to stop by earlier in the editing process to make sure she understood what the commercial would like, then leave the employees to finish up. Mershawn basically made no contributions to the commercial at all, nor did we get to see her approve the video concept at all, so that makes her a crappy PM, IMO.

mbridgii

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:00 pm

It must be the "greed is good" themes of "The Apprentice" attract the same frat and sorority types every season. Every year, the guys get all "Varsity Blues" and the girls get all "Heathers", isolating the weaker members and attempting to pick them off, one by one.

I usually let some things slide on ad campaigns, since these people aren't necessarily graphic artists or videographers by trade. If they use Times New Roman font, or don't have something perfectly centered, or resort to cheesy PowerPoint slides and wipe away transitions, it doesn't matter - as long as the gist of the campaign is good. Like the NYPD "When was the last time..." campaign a couple of seasons ago - the amateurish look of the video was minimized by a strong theme.

Here, the "do you need permission?" tag was great. It's not like there are a lot of Lamborghini ads on the air (if any) or in any magazines that I read. Running silly "green with envy" print ads, like you're selling a Toyota Corolla, is pathetic.

Stardancer2001

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:02 pm

Mershawn basically made no contributions to the commercial at all, nor did we get to see her approve the video concept at all, so that makes her a crappy PM, IMO. [/quote]

Ahh, but we see only what the editing wishes for us to see. It probably would have been better to not show Randall and the funeral (which was tacky, yes) and show more of the task at hand. Isn't it the mark of The Apprentice to show more of the losing team's work? I figured that Excel would lose since we were spending so much time with them.

During Trump's "last year Omarosa got hit with a piece of cee-ment" bit, I noticed that we saw and hear a lot of them laughing, but you can see Randall's mouth in the background and it didn't move. I didn't think that was very classy of Trump. He might have said, "if you remember, this is the place where Omarosa got hit with cement" and leave it at that. No need to get in the dig about the "brick".
[/quote]

Well, Trump and "classy" would never appear in the same sentence unless it was spelled with a K.

Parmenio

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:02 pm

but I actually had to turn my face away from the television when the women lined up facing one another and busted out the "Passion! Beauty!" shit. Ohmygawd. I was so embarassed to have ovaries.
[/quote]

I just got Cycle 1 of ANTM and totally flashed on the "Color is ..." ad they shot. It was pretty lame.

And why, why, why would anybody on this show interview in a confessional that they guarantee they'll win? (I don't remember his name - don't care enough to remember names and faces this early in.) Honestly, do they only select people who have never before watched reality TV?

The reward: DH said that immediately when we heard what the reward was - they were pretty sure the guys were gonna win, with a reward like that. He used to play, and was really irked at the chick who sprained her ankle while standing in skates. Heh.

jonathanacohen

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:01 pm

I cringed so much at the funeral. I was afraid there would be a yooge gold "T" on the casket.

Arkay

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:05 pm

I agree that Markus was the only one of the men who could see that making the Lamborghini "green with envy" was totally counterproductive to what they were trying to say. However, since he also came up with the "winning slogan" of "smooth as silk," it seems to me that these things cancelled each other out. I think he should have been fired over Chris, if for no other reason than he broke rank to spout his stupid slogan to the Lamborghini guy. He clearly felt his slogan was genius and would not see the light of day unless he brought it to the client's attention. You just knew that he thought the clients would gasp at his brilliance.
I also did not care for Alla. She bitched about Marshawn the whole time, then she was one of the first to say she thought Marshawn deserved to be exempt. Hypocrite.

noisebox

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:06 pm

Damn those women and their ta-da presentation! They looked like they were about to cheer "Give me "L"!". I was hiding my face behind the pillow at that moment.

Don't capitalize the "I" in Italian, lest it ruin the style? WTF? "Green with envy" without a question mark? The reason we have grammar, is so that what we are trying to say is easily understood. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Shots of the funeral? Well, that was just grandstanding. We get it. You let him attend the funeral. Did you think we wouldn't trust you or that you didn't just one of your apprentices?

In the "Do they ever watch this show?" department, if Trump asks you a yes or no question, don't waste his or my time going into a 20 minute dissertation, because it looks like you're covering or kissing ass.

HobokenMartha

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:07 pm

Also, I love Alla beyond all reason. She's like some super-awesome, determined Alias-type heroine. And her pimptastic befurred, bequilted, bepinked outfit was ta diiiiieeeee faw. It was like, if Cleopatra Jones were a white girl, she would be Alla.
[/quote]

Oh, my, yes. She's a sharp one. Between the too-close-to-Ivana accent and name and the orgasms of spangles, she's never going to actually get the job. But I nominate her as The Apprentice wannabe most likely to go the farthest, thanks to the exposure.

NotTheBox

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:09 pm

But it looks like Rebecca is going to have to make a choice. Stay in the game and live with the pain vs. have surgery and take yourself out. Why does Randall get a pass but Rebecca doesn't?[/quote]

It makes sense to me. If she broke her foot, she should get as much time off as needed to get a cast or whatever and then continue to work, just like you would in a regular job. If there's a funeral, you are usually allowed time off for that. Maybe I missed something but I thought they just said her foot was broken. Usually you don't need surgery for that, you just hobble around on crutches and continue to do your job as much as possible. I didn't see them saying she might have to leave because of it, and if they did she should fight it. I had to have somebody drive me to work for weeks because I broke my clutch foot but I never expected my company to give me a month off till I was out of the cast and off crutches.

Tandemonium

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:08 pm

Man I thought both their ad campaigns sucked yuge donkey balls. And the ladies' presentation intro...OMG. I see my share of presentations regularly and nothing has come close to that cheesirificness. I wish they hadn't editted out the judges' snorts and giggles. They had to have! Professionalism be damed especially with these idiots!

I actually thought the guys' video atleast was better than the girls' vid. Capital Edge's was too cluttered looking and like someone had just figured out how to 'fade-to-black' and got excited. Excel's looked like it atleast looked like something an Introduction to Video student would come up with...a bad Intro to Vid student, but still. Man this was a far cry from Kendra's Pontiac campaign last season. Graphic designers and video producers all around the world must have cringed in unison.

I was really hoping Trump would fire both their asses on the spot...but then I wouldn't get to hear the clownish music play whenever Marcus is on screen again. This season seems to be really shaping up into having a fraternity/sorority rushing vibe. As Mcdopey as Marcus is, he's right on with the guys forming a 'clique'. Still don't see anyone to root for at all. I'm afraid this show is losing it's luster with me it seems.

fictionista

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:12 pm

Ahh, but we see only what the editing wishes for us to see. It probably would have been better to not show Randall and the funeral (which was tacky, yes) and show more of the task at hand. Isn't it the mark of The Apprentice to show more of the losing team's work? I figured that Excel would lose since we were spending so much time with them.
[/quote]

I thought the same thing. We don't know that Marshawn didn't rock with the print work, or that she didn't eventually come to see the video and offer input. Either the men were getting the loser edit, or Marshawn is being set up for later.

I cringed so much at the funeral. I was afraid there would be a yooge gold "T" on the casket.[/quote]

Bwah!

LadyKenobi

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:15 pm

I was afraid there would be a yooge gold "T" on the casket.[/quote]

BWAH! I was appalled enough that they showed him standing at the funeral, but then they actually included the casket, like, "Yup. Dead." Sick.

But I nominate (Alla) as The Apprentice wannabe most likely to go the farthest, thanks to the exposure.[/quote]

Operative word here being "exposure." I hate the fact that she built her capital as a stripper and basic whore and now is rewarded with a much-coveted candidate spot. I don't think you should be punished forever for things you did in your past, but... holy shit, y'all... a murder. She strikes me as a person who would actually be proud of this type of thing, Jerry Springer-style. I mean, there ARE other ways to make it in America.

This is not a person I want to be like in any way, shape, or form. She doesn't deserve to be breathing the same air as Carolyn.

ETA Then again this could all be just a moo point (TM Joey) anyway... she's getting a lot of attention early on, which means she'll be gone before too long.

auntiemame

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:20 pm

Operative word here being "exposure." I cannot stand the fact that she build her capital as a stripper and basic whore.[/quote]

Oh, I don't know. What's the difference between Mata Hari and what Alla did? Point being, sometimes sex is just part of business and IMO if you're going to cross that line it makes no difference whether you believe you're doing it for high-end or low-end reasons. I see the difference between a literal stripper and the metaphorical screwing-for-money of the business world to be a thin line, at best.

Besides, Alla made herself a $12 million fortune. That didn't all come from stripping. IMO her competence and confidence shine through enough to wipe away her past. YMMV. I mean, I don't want to be like her in the taking-clothes-off way. But in the "fuck that shit, it's behind me and I'm going to build a great new life" determined way? I think Alla seems like one of the few people around who have learned a little something from life. She took lemons and make a big ole pitcher of bling-festooned lemonade. And it's not her fault that the guy stalked her and went batshit. I mean, are domestic abuse victims to blame when their husbands get violent? It's a similar situation.

LolaLilaLilly

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:21 pm

Watch what you say about strippers.

Some of us may be one.

Stardancer2001

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:22 pm

LOL!

Hippy Hollow

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:25 pm

jodeci... come on, that Kristi accent is not Texan. I placed it in SC or GA. Just for the record, George Bush doesn't speak with a Texan accent either. I do agree it is cataclysmically annoying, though.

scaryfairy1 absolutely has it right. If Chris had brought in the person most responsible for the fuck-ups in the task, Mark, there's a good chance that Chris or even Mark might have survived. DT already hates Markus, but I agree with his logic - that was a stupid frat-boy move that reeked of clannishness and stupidity. He deserved to be deepsixed. I actually thought he did pretty well leading until that point.

I agree with the posters who have questioned why Randal (or Squidward) is receiving so much love. Empathize with the brother because of his loss, but he hasn't done shit yet. What's to love?

The low-key guys (Adam, Brian, and a few others) seem to be okay. They're clever to stay out of the spotlight right now, and they are competent enough to avoid scrutiny. We'll be seeing some of them late in the season. The jackass Jeff (it is Jeff, right?) is working my last nerve. His snarkiness is crossing the line from being amusing to being dickish. We used to have a rule about cracking on the more socially awkward kids in college - there's no need to pile on. Markus is a overly talkative dork. Got it. He ain't going far in the show, so why not train your snarky sights on a more worthy opponent?

Team Scrote is rapidly becoming annoying. They're acting like four-year lettermen in high school - that is, like dicks. Glad that George called them on it. They remind me of the women's team with Ivana and co.

Team Ovary, on the other hand, ain't exactly a prize peach either. Kristi is an ass of the highest order, and politically has a tin ear. Once all the women got on board with the exemption for Marshawn, why the hell would you stand out as the lone dissenter? Granted, the editing on this show is pretty out there - it's incredibly obvious now whereas in the first few seasons I really couldn't figure out how they cut it. I have a feeling her bitching is going to cost her in the near future.

Omarosa got conked on the head only a year ago?

LadyKenobi

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:28 pm

I mean, are domestic abuse victims to blame when their husbands get violent? It's a similar situation.[/quote]

I disagree. The last time I checked, most domestic abuse victims do not pretend to be in love with/have a relationship with their partners, stringing them along soley for money.

I think the editors are laying the groundwork for a major fall. The cameraman laughing at her in tonight's episode? Awesome.

auntiemame

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:35 pm

The last time I checked, most domestic abuse victims do not pretend to be in love with/have a relationship with their partners soley for money.[/quote]

Is it confirmed that that's what Alla did? I think it may be hard to say what the dynamic between them was -- all we know is that the guy flipped out. And I definitely want to avoid generalizations about domestic abuse victims...IMO it doesn't really matter why a person is having a relationship, it doesn't mean they deserve to be stalked and hunted down by a gun-wielding maniac. Entirely YMMV.

I just believe that, no matter what her past, Alla has acted honorably, competently and ethically throughout the two challenges, at least as far as we know. I think that makes her admirable, as the same cannot be said of too many of her colleagues. I give her credit.

I was impressed with several of the women, performance-wise. Alla, obviously, as well as the pageant queen (Jennifer?) and Toral. They all had terrific ideas and presented themselves well.

blackwing

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:39 pm

I swear that more than half the people did absolutely nothing this time around, and may not have even spoken. I still don't know which ones Clay, Brian, and James are. I only know Rebecca and Toral because of the sprained foot. I can identify Felisha because of her platinum blonde hair and zits, but did she even contribute? Still have no idea who the Jennifers are. This week was all the Markus and Kristi show.

Omarosa got conked on the head only a year ago? [/quote]Amazing, isn't it? That they managed to squeeze in three full seasons in such a short time span, and now are on their fourth. I think it was a mistake to roll them out so quickly. Was it Season 2 that started just weeks after Season 1, or Season 3 just weeks after Season 2?

Jaded Cat

Sep 29, 2005 @ 10:40 pm

Why is everybody so in love with Randal? I don’t think he’s sucked or anything but for god’s sake, to follow him to the funeral?? So far all I know about him is he has a beaky nose and seems well spoken. I guess they had to prove his decency, that he didn’t lie about his grandmother’s death ala Johnny Fairplay on Survivor. I could have lived without the funeral shots. Didn’t tell me anything new[/quote].

I thought it was a nice gesture of Trump to send Randal to his grandmother's funeral via helicopter. It never occured to me the cameras would attach themselves at Randal's hip. I don't know what I was thinking, or not thinking, as the case may be.

Totally a new low for The Donald or Burnett, whoever was responsible for that.

Kristi, don't make me sorry I still have my hearing, yer makin' it tough.

Good fire by Trump. Apparently, I'm a lot older than Chris, but my hearing is obviously better than his.

XZero-g

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:00 pm

Chris=Stupid. Whomever was in charge creatively, failed and was the weak link. When you failed to address that and even actively ignore it out of anger at someone else, you became the weak link.

Markus= Annoyingly irritating

As for Mark, What the hell is wrong with his teeth? They are exceedingly white and quite possibly glow-inthe-dark. Jeez...they could be seen from space. I understand that you want to make a good impression when going on national television, but how many bleachings did he have? I hated "Friends," but that episode with Ross' over-bleaching was sooooooo a cautionary tale...ignored by Mark. I don't mean to be petty, but it was damn distracting. I cringed and shuddered everytime he was on screen. I'm all for nice, white teeth, but it was like he had 40 stars in his mouth.

Hoola

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:20 pm

The men sucked so much. Women always get called for being cliquish and like a "coven" but these men were exhibiting the same behaviors. It knows no bounds. Chris was told about four times to bring in Mark, why the hell not? He could even tell Mark that it's so he could have a chance to defend himself.

That ad campaign was not only tacky, ugly, disjointed, and non-sensical - it ignored the fact that this is a luxury automobile. They were so caught up with the Lambourgini name that they didn't even bother to point out what was great about the cars.

italian Intimidation sounds like an intramural soccer team's name. Or a quickly rejected tagline for The Sopranos.

Is it confirmed that that's what Alla did?[/quote]

Not by her, but by other people who knew her at the time. It's in her thread and there are bunches of articles out there. I admit, she is my favorite on the show but I do think she went out of her way to con money out of men. And that's not what all strippers are like.

She seems to have really good interpersonal skills, which I'm sure were helped by her previous career and building a multimillion dollar spa empire. Why would she even want to work for Trump? I'm sure she's just using it to promote herself and her line.

blocked writer

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:23 pm

I don't know; Marshawn told them to let her see it when they were done. I'm the type of person who wouldn't need a boss looking over my shoulder every minute during work. Sometimes you have to trust that work is being done and look over the results when it is done. This whole "babysitting" thing is for children, not adults IMHO. [/quote]

I agree. I believe that Marshawn was given the exemption by her teammates because of things we didn't necessarily see on camera. I can't believe they gave it to her out of the kindness of their hearts. Either they realized that her approach was really a good one in the end, or she did more than they showed her doing.

I also agree that they shouldn't need to be babysat or have their hands held when they had a clear-cut job to do. They are all vying for a job as a leader, why could they just use their judgment and do their part of the task to the best of their ability. It's not like Marshawn left them there floundering with nothing to do.

Kristi is an ass. When will these people learn to give more diplomatic answers in those one-on-one interviews? Why spend so much energy trashing the PM or other teammates when you should be doing all you can to win? I think if you have legitimate grievances, the boardroom is the place for that. I assume the one-on-ones are taken during lulls in the tasks, and while the producers must ask leading questions, people don't have to keep falling for it, do they?

Chris made a big mistake not taking Mark into the boardroom. My husband and I just looked at each other and shook our heads in disbelief. We thought surely Markus was a goner when he criticized the campaign in front of the client. When Trump called him out for disloyalty, I thought he was history.

But even with the stupid move of only taking Markus in the boardroom while ignoring Trump's obvious advice, he still had a small chance to save himself. If he had stated his case against Markus more clearly, I think TD would have gotten rid of Markus instead of Chris. When Markus went to tell his lame "Smooth as silk" idea to the Lamborghini executive after Chris asked him not to was an offense worth being fired for, IMO. Why didn't Chris talk about that in the boardroom? But I did love it when the Lamborghini guy turned him down without missing a beat. That guy might have terminal bitchface, but I loved him just a little in that moment.

CaptainSnarky

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:31 pm

The men sucked so much. Women always get called for being cliquish and like a "coven" but these men were exhibiting the same behaviors. It knows no bounds.[/quote]

Amen, Hoola! The Tiny Dick Coven is composed of a bunch of sniveling, brainless hoo-rah bitches who, collectively, produced an ad campaign so boring, it made the previous episode of Will and Grace look like a tour de force of creativity. The only reason I'm rooting for Randall is because he hasn't shown himself to be an utter dick. Yet. That, and I totally sympathize with him concerning his grandmother. So he's got a bit of a grace period with me.

Magsi2

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:34 pm

FYI for the post above about Omarosa: Season 1 ended in the spring 2004, season 2 started in the fall 2004, season 3 started in Jan/Feb 2005and then we had this past summer before season 4 & Martha's version. I think that Omarosa's ceement/brick fell on her during the fall of 2003 when they were taping for the spring episodes. It think it would have been more than a year, even though they taped this season during the spring. Maybe he meant a year since it aired

Anyhoo....Tonight's episode was OK, but not great. Kristi was right on about Marshawn being too hands off on the task. I don't care how much she may trust them, they have only been together about a week. Not quite enough time to just blindly hand over your head on a platter(IMHO). Chris was just plain stupid. Trumpy all but begged him to bring Mark into the boardroom and he was just A-Cluistic (Buy him a clue. NOW!) I think Mark will be called on his arrogance soon. Trumpy will be watching for him and remind him that Chris saved him. The "green with envy" ad....nothing more to say. It's all been said before.

Alla seemed to be quite a contender. Jenn M's "ask permission" line was FANTASTIC. Their ad wasn't superb, by any stretch of the imagination, but that line was a great ending. The guys lost because....they were guys and the tasks was cars. The reward was definitely geared for the guys to win it. Ice hockey is fun, but it's MUCH better if you know how to ice skate. At least the BBall reward last season allowed them to be on their feet (no blades or wheels needed).

The preview didn't show much this time. I was a bit disappointed overall with this ep. Showing Randal and the funeral footage was SO inappropriate and not necessary! Like most others, more actual task footage would have been nice. I still don't know who they all are without hoping for names at the bottom of the screen or double-checking my yahoo candidates pictures. Soon that won't be necessary though.

sleazydinosaur

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:42 pm

Call me crazy, but IMO Marcus isn't the disaster everyone seems to think he is...All I see is a goofy-looking guy who talks a lot ...what's so horrible about it?[/quote]

Especially considering he's interviewing for a job with Donald Trump, the ultimate goofy looking guy that talks to much.

Magsi2

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:48 pm

Call me crazy, but IMO Marcus isn't the disaster everyone seems to think he is...All I see is a goofy-looking guy who talks a lot ...what's so horrible about it?

Especially considering he's interviewing for a job with Donald Trump, the ultimate goofy looking guy that talks to much.[/quote]

HEE HEE! How true.

Suzilee

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:48 pm

While I agree that Chris is the reason they failed the task, I still cannot understand Trump's decision from a business perspective. Isn't the whole purpose of doing the tasks to figure out who he wants as his Apprentice? And even with Chris' bad performance, faced with the choice to hire Chris or hire Markus, he would hire MARKUS? Seriously?

I think in first season, he was much less task focused - he was looking at the body of tasks overall as a way to judge the candidates - as though he was really concerned about having to hire someone eventually. Now he seems to look at it strictly as entertainment - knows he will give the person he hires a pretend job anyway, and seems to consider only who is responsible for the failure of a particular task, instead of whether or not their performances on the task give him any insight into who is the better OVERALL candidate. So he ends up with a bunch of losers in his final two like Kelly, Jenn, and Craig.

Sorry, I got off-topic.

Magsi2

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:55 pm

Did anyone else notice the "at the end of the day" comment that the advertisting agency lady said to Trumpy? (Sorry I have forgotten her name)

Knots Landing

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:56 pm

I think Trump had to fire Chris this week. Sure Markus is questionable, but he in no way was the reason they lost this task. Trump gave Chris more hints than he's EVER given anyone, but Chris is an idiot and sealed his own fate.

He was more concerned with being personal and not the actual task. He choose to bring in someone he simply didn't like, not the person who ruined the entire task for them.

I also don't see why everyone thought he was so great. The entire mens team was a joke this week. Their campaign was extremely boring and crappy, plus they lost. What is there for Chris to be proud of? His team lost. At least when Markus was PM they won.

Now onto the girls...I really don't think Marshawn did a bad job. I just think that Kristi's stuff was more interesting for the show. I thought the editing was really off, because they made such a big deal of Marshawn doing nothing...but never showed us what she was actually doing. No shots of her at the loft, no shots of her going nuts, nothing.

Jaded Cat

Sep 29, 2005 @ 11:57 pm

I agree. I believe that Marshawn was given the exemption by her teammates because of things we didn't necessarily see on camera. I can't believe they gave it to her out of the kindness of their hearts. Either they realized that her approach was really a good one in the end, or she did more than they showed her doing.[/quote]

With all the shots of Kristi flappin' her jaw, they probably didn't have time to show much of Marshawn doing anything. Tonight seemed to be "The Kristi Show!"

SmedIndy

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:01 am

Actually, I think this is a very consistent firing. Trump basically told Chris, flat out, to make the wise business decision. He did not. End of story. Markus may be a goofball but many corporations can operate, and operate well, with goofballs in high places.

PopCultDiva

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:04 am

blocked writer, I so agreed with your entire post.

In view of her experience with Melissa, you would think she would known a thing or two about badmouthing a PM. We never saw if Marshawn in fact dropped in on the editing session. No matter your opinion, The Presentation In Black didn't just happen spontaneously. And there seemed to be very little hesitation in giving her the exemption.

If Kristi (as well as Alla and the other woman) really felt Marshawn was that bad, they had enough time in the loft to campaign against her.

Apart from mentioning the lack of team loyalty, how come this time it's ok with DT to dissent agains the team? Somewhere in the outside world, season 1 Tammy is muttering bitter things into her beer.

blocked writer

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:07 am

With all the shots of Kristi flappin' her jaw, they probably didn't have time to show much of Marshawn doing anything. Tonight seemed to be "The Kristi Show!"[/quote]

Yes! They showed Kristi at least 3 or 4 times bitching about Marshawn's hands-off approach. I got it after the first time. They could have shown us so much more, rather than repeatedly pounding us over the head with Kristi's discontent.

The one clip wopuld have told the whole story - the one with Kristi complaining that Marshawn might get praise and immunity when she didn't last week. Did that bitch forget that she LOST as PM last week?

ETA:

Total word on this, PopCultDiva:

Apart from mentioning the lack of team loyalty, how come this time it's ok with DT to dissent agains the team? Somewhere in the outside world, season 1 Tammy is muttering bitter things into her beer.[/quote]

Trump makes it up as he goes along. He's full of it. And you're so right about Tammy. IIRC, Tammy only voiced a dissenting opinion in the boardroom about whether they got duped by Troy. What Markus did was so much worse, IMO.

atlantis81

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:13 am

Chris is perhaps the dumbest Apprentice-wannabe to ever get on the show. "Don't bring Markus in." "Mr. Trump, I would like to bring only Markus in." Idiot. The whole don't-use-a-cliche/Green with envy/water thing bugs. I almost fell asleep during their commercial, and the print ads were completely forgettable. Chris sucked.

faced with the choice to hire Chris or hire Markus, he would hire MARKUS? Seriously?[/quote]

See, Trump wasn't faced with the decision to hire either Chris or Markus. He knew that neither of them would be staying long, based on Chris's inability to make good business decisions and Markus's inability to communicate effectively. He fired the person who lost the task.

Markus -- if you say 10 million different things, chances are, yes, you will be right at least once. And shame on them for not listening to you that one time. But, see, they had already listened to you the first 999,999 times, and you were babbling then. If you want to increase your chances of being heard when you've got something valuable to say, you need to decrease the number of instances you're heard when you don't really know what to say. Got it? Not that it matters, but maybe it'll help later on in life.

With the women's team, I didn't like how the video footage was put together, but I did like the questions and the overall impact of the ad, and the print ad package was good. It all went together great. I think it's a deservable win, and, as much as I love Kendra, whoever said she wouldn't let that crap by her is totally forgetting the pickle debacle. I know she wasn't PM then, but... CE's ad this time around blew both the dove bodywash commercials out of the water.

I think Marshawn was probably a more involved PM than what we saw, and that the editors don't want to give her as much air time right now as, say, Kristi, because she (Marshawn) is going to be around for awhile, whereas Kristi... may not be. Alla, I think, is getting lots of airtime because of a) the personality, b) the past and c) the editors somehow need to justify her being picked to be on the show, and possibly how far in the show she goes -- I still think she'll go far. I don't see Trump firing her for her past, and she's done well on both tasks and really took a leadership role here. The women seem to respect her.

I also like Toral, Adam (he hasn't done anything to upset me yet), and Randal (Given the extensive coverage of his personal life and his background, I think he'll go far). Josh seems to be getting lots of screen time... why?

virago

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:19 am

An episode so painful I had to turn away twice.

I thought the men's concept was great back when it was still a concept. When Chris was describing it, I got the image of an actual vintage (circa 1960s) Lamborghini carrying this stud with a studette entering a tunnel, and then the next shot is of the 2005 Lamborghini with a modern-day stud and studette. If they wanted to go with rebirth then that would have definitely done the job - the first model morphing into the newest one AND a tunnel! What more could you want? Unfortunately, the final product looked more like a video shot with a cellphone than a video shot with an actual camera.

The women's presentation looked like it was made from powerpoint, but I was impressed with the final slogan of 'Do you need permission?'

I fell over laughing when I found out the women were skating with the Islanders. Then I remembered that the Islanders don't suck anymore, so I stopped. I'm actually surprised; I thought Trump would've at least sprung for the Rangers.

If the season continues like this, I think Thursday at 9:00 will be devoted to watching House reruns instead.

Obleek

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:22 am

Doh! Doh! And Doh!!!

Show a green car. It's "green with envy" - say wha?

Is English the second language on team penis?

That Mark is real bright. NOT. Jeez, how embarrassing.

And Chris? Have a clue? Hello? Anybody home? Markus is not Michelle. Copying Kristi's play from last week? Lame. And dumber than mud.

BuonGiorno

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:23 am

I also did not care for Alla. She bitched about Marshawn the whole time, then she was one of the first to say she thought Marshawn deserved to be exempt. Hypocrite. [/quote]
Arkay , I think you mixed them up - it was Kristi who bitched about Marshawn, and not Alla. Kristi was consistent with her take on Marshawn and said so when DT asked her. In fact, she was the only one who complained, and then the only one who voted against exemption. No hypocricy here, IMO.

Random thoughts:
- Dicks Vs Janes didn't do much for Lamborghini today.
- Markus is a schmuk, but I like him. He is a decent guy, who needs to shut up.
- Nobody knows what Marshawn was doing during the ep. Janes voted in favor of her exemption, which means she must've done something. I am inclined to think she orchestrated the presentation piece.
- The show wants us to wonder about Marshawn's whereabouts during the show. Is this an indication we may see her in the finale? May be.
- Toral is hot. She seems nice. And intelligent.
- Alla rocks. But she needs to slow down a bit.
- Has Jennifer W. say a word today? Was she even there?
- The Dicks' Chris cannot read the room. He practically fired himself.
- The Dicks' Mark got really lucky today. His teeth are too white. He is a cocky Dick, who should've been fired today.
- Have Adam or Clay say a word today?
- The Omarosa story was funny, but somewhat politically incorrect.
- Carolyn was very good today. George should stay with his grandpa George image.

Bassari99

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:27 am

And even with Chris' bad performance, faced with the choice to hire Chris or hire Markus, he would hire MARKUS? Seriously?[/quote]
But Trump didn't hire Markus, nor is he likely to; he just didn't fire Markus tonight, because Trump felt Chris made a more serious tactical business error by not acknowleging that Mark's poor execution of Team Excel's print campaign, largely cost them the win. Markus didn't have the faith of his team mates and twice spoke out of turn to the Lamborghini folks, but he wasn't really in charge of anything related to the task, and that was Chris's decision. If Trump was going to fire contestants merely for being goofy or irksome, he could have fired Markus along with Melissa last week. And he could have thrown Kristi in, for good measure.

Susan StoHelit

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:28 am

The skating - I think the gril who sprained her ankle made the standard fatal mistake - didn't lace the skates up tightly. Ice skates are made to be very well secured to your feet - if they aren't, you sprain your ankle very easily. Balancing on that thin blade, you need it to be welded to the bottom of your foot, not wobbling from side to side.

Chris proved Markus's point. I was so rooting for Markus to finally go home; but Chris is all about everyone rowing the same direction, and a million other groupthink sports metaphors - he proved that Chris and the team were the problem. Markus is still hopeless - but groupthink managers are also a huge problem.

I loved the women's commercial - simple, fast paced, and that question at the end really was perfect for the audience. Their presentation was a bit dumb, but still looked a lot better than the guys coming in there and, "Hi y'all, we're Excel, and we've got a great idea - believe me!".

"italian" was a huge, huge mistake. The company is based in Italy. You don't diss the country of origin of the product when selling them an ad.

AmberDawn

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:31 am

So now instead of having to listen to Markus constant yakking, Chris gets to go to the loser suite and listen to Melissa's constant yakking.

Insomniac

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:35 am

These off-off-off-off broadway presentation productions have got to stop. Stop, I say, stop.

Bright teeth has chicklets that are unnaturally bright. Hurt my eyes. Gonna' make me wear my sunglasses at night. See? Look what the ladies did to me...I'm thinking of MTV's early videos. That's just cruel to do to an audience.

Trump may have made the right decision for the moment, but not for the long haul. Chris had a lot more to do and show. Marcus has nothing to show, other than his idiocy. He'll do a lot to show that.

JennaC

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:37 am

[/QUOTE]I thought the men's concept was great back when it was still a concept. When Chris was describing it, I got the image of an actual vintage (circa 1960s) Lamborghini carrying this stud with a studette entering a tunnel, and then the next shot is of the 2005 Lamborghini with a modern-day stud and studette. If they wanted to go with rebirth then that would have definitely done the job - the first model morphing into the newest one AND a tunnel! What more could you want? Unfortunately, the final product looked more like a video shot with a cellphone than a video shot with an actual camera.[QUOTE]

Didn't Porsche do something like this a year or two ago?

Just to pile on here. Chris fired himself. How many clues did Trump, Carolyn, and George leave for Chris? Half a dozen or so? Fool deserved to be dismissed for not paying attention. Next.

Obleek

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:38 am

So now instead of having to listen to Markus constant yakking, Chris gets to go to the loser suite and listen to Melissa's constant yakking.[/quote]

instant car-ma

(sorry it's been a loooong day).

zenner

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:44 am

Chris made a fatal mistake of letting his hatred of the smug moron Markus affect his judgment. But I think the reason they didn't listen to SMM when he finally did make a good point is because it was buried in all his usual crap.

Trump quite obviously despises Markus, but couldn't fire him, and warned Chris not to do it. Chris ignores da boss. Mistake #2.

They quite obviously don't watch this show. This same thing happened last year. The men think they can't lose on a car-ad task, and are shown making stupid predictions of total dominance. And then the other team hands them their asses. I mean, how dumb can you be? When the producers come trolling for tidbits, you can just belt up, you know. It has been done.

I wondered about that guy's teeth, too. Nice to know there's a reason, stupid though it may be.

Lots of anti-Marshawn sentiments expressed but only Kristi is dumb enough to persist with them in the face of a win. Nice way to make an unneccesary enemy, moron.

No cheers when Markus returned to the suite, I'm betting.

Dispatcherbert

Sep 30, 2005 @ 12:46 am

Does [Markus] remind anyone else of Ron Reagan? <crickets> Just me? Oh well.[/quote]

Now that you mention it… Although I have to say that, personality and grate-wise, he completely reminds me of Danny from last season. And will probably have about as long of a shelf life if DT’s parting shot to him in the boardroom is any indication. IIRC, DT said much the same thing to Danny. If Team Penis loses next week, I predict that Markus will be toast.

Frankly, both ads left me cold. I had sensory overload watching the women’s ad. It was just too damn busy. And the guys’ had me scratching my head and saying, “Is that it?” And, yeah, Chris, when you have to explain your ad to that extent, something’s lacking. What was it he said in the boardroom when Carolyn questioned him? Something about subtlety but I couldn’t wrap myself around what it was he was trying to get at. It didn’t make sense.

My condolences to Randal and his family. I thought it was tacky, though, that the camera was all over everything. Thank God they at least stayed out of the church. But the graveside was overkill, IMO. They should’ve just left it with Randal and the chopper if DT and MB felt that compelled to tag along.

But it looks like Rebecca is going to have to make a choice. Stay in the game and live with the pain vs. have surgery and take yourself out.[/quote]

I must’ve missed something in the previews. When did they say she needs surgery? All I got is that the ankle is broken as opposed to sprained. Regardless, the injury is unfortunate but it’s not like it’s life-threatening. Deal with it for cryin’ out loud!

"Nobody loves me, everybody hates me
I'm gonna eat some worms...."[/quote]

I love you, CarolTX! Whenever I was a kid and feeling sorry for myself for whatever reason, my [late] mother would sing that to me. You almost brought a tear to my eye.

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