Thanks for the suggestions. I'm sick of the bad story lines and just want to see some good ballroom dancing. I was hoping there was a documentary about it... where I could see what real dancing couples go through...

What a difference a few decades can make when it comes to movie titles.

The original title was The Gay Divorce, but the producers at RKO decided that a person could be gay and happy, but a divorce was always a somber procedure.

bagatelle1 I'd recommend seeing if your local library has some old PBS or BBC ballroom dancing competitions. They occasionally have little bits about the choreography and all the requirements.

Hee Rabrab! I hope they miss her with the tranq dart next time. (like Wild Kingdom..."I'll stay in the jeep while Jim gets close enough to shoot the Tristabeast...")

I love the cheesiness of this show; my mom loves this show and thinks the dancing is beautiful...maybe I'll get her a copy of Strictly Ballroom for her birthday (I've never seen it). I do remember the PBS competitions (sigh).

I like watching the improvement of both Peterman and Rachel each week. She's pretty and nicely proportioned, I think.

As for the host, he's ok, but I think all shows need a TAR Phil:

"The cha cha and the rumba are 2 very different dances, each with their own pros and cons..."

All this talk about the PBS programs has me wondering if they even show them anymore. I've poked around my local PBS website and I don't see anything. Anyone seen one lately?

There is another ballroom-dancing related show in Australia called Strictly Dancing. This one features only professional or semi-professional dancers - no stars or alleged stars - and it broke new ground last year by including a guy-guy couple in the contestants.

Topic - I was watching a bit of the Seinfeld marathon on the local cable channel last night and wishing I could get to see J. Peterman dance!

For anyone who missed it, last week's ep will be repeated Wednesday at 8, right before the new show.

Sadly, they ran out of funding to televise the Ohio Star Ball (broadcast as Championship Ballroom Dancing) on PBS several years ago, but it is rumoured that this year they will again be taping it when it occurs in November and televising it sometime in January-February.

This show is the highlight of my week. I used to have TARsday, now I have Dancing with the STARsday. Is it Wednesday yet?

Thanks for the info. I'm sure they will come up with the funding based on the popularity of this show.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is all geeked out over this show. I can't wait for Wednesday!!

Anyone have any ideas for future "Stars?"

How about: Camaryn Manheim, Anthony Michael Hall and William Devane.

That's evil. I like it.

Continuing with the theme of reality has beens: Jerri Manthey, Omarosa, Boston Rob (hee, hee, Amber signs him up for more dancing lessons)

I would shell out the bucks for Pay per View to see Omarose and Boston Rob take part.

TV Guide Interview with Kelly Monaco.

***warning*** contains a small spoiler at the end regarding what song she is dancing to this week.

The article says all the celebrities got a lump sum payment up front, so they are only competing now for a trophy and bragging rights.

I wrote:


Barkley responded:


But, not to beat this into the ground, but I think that the key word here in what you've written is 'dance'. It's not just 'a seduction', it's 'a seduction dance'. To me, Kelly didn't nail that at all.

Hi Everybody! I would have gotten here sooner but it took me a few days to get my login and then I was running a ballroom dance competition. Let me introduce myself -- I travelled with zigletto to last week's taping of "Dancing with the Stars." It was a great time, and I really really thank Z. for getting me a ticket and driving me down.

Okay, I have a few things to comment on based on what you all have been saying recently.

On the "Kelly isn't all that bad, is she, and Rachel isn't that much better, is she?" question:
Yes, she is, and yes, she is. You can't see it on TV because they showed a lot of her gyrating posterior, but if you can watch Kelly's feet and ankles you can see she is very wobbly. Imagine you're walking down the street and every step you take you are off balance and your ankles are wiggling and your feet wobble against the ground. I guess if you're the right amount of drunk and tired you'd know what I mean. Anyway, when you're not really balanced and using your legs well, you wobble, and when you're wobbling you can't produce good dancing. Most beginners wobble, so where Kelly is right now with her dancing is completely natural. In fact, I think that Evander and Kelly show where the typical adult complete beginner would be after the amount of training that Evander and Kelly have received. The others, with their varied natural talents and other dance training, show where someone who came from a more dance-oriented background would be. So anyway, Kelly is not so great compared to the others, but not so bad in the general set of all adults learning to dance.

But this is a competition, and so we have to compare what we actually see. Rachel is balanced and can move her body over her legs without being backweighted (like leaning back or carrying your weight mostly over your heels) or leaning forward. Also, Rachel shows that she knows how to activate her abs to keep her core torso stable. Not stiff, but stable...anyone who has done ballet will know what I mean, and since Rachel was training as a ballet dancer before she took up modeling then of course Rachel understands this. The bottom line is that Rachel's ballet training gives her a bit of an advantange over Kelly, but then Kelly's much larger fan base gives her a bit of an advantage over Rachel, so I wouldn't say that one's advantage is "unfair" as compared to the others.

Charlotte and her fluffy encouragements:
What she's doing with John is not uncommon amongst advanced women dancing with beginning men. Now, John is an actor and so is used to receiving criticism and corrections, but I have found that in my 9 1/2 years of dancing and competing that the vast majority of the men need and appreciate a lot of encouragement and praise when it comes to learning ballroom dancing -- especially competitive ballroom dancing. Actually, this is true of women who are learning too. It's not like ballet where some harsh ballet master can scream at you in Russian and then yell "why can't you do that the way I showed you!?!" :) If the teachers are too mean then people will quit dancing. I can tell you from experience that learning to lead while also learning to dance is quite challenging, and this ties into my comments about...

Evander
He's the man, man. Okay, so he dances like he's never felt his ankle joints bend in his entire life, but he's got so much spirit and such a gung-ho attitude. I love him for this. I do take issue with the comments that he can't move because he's so big. He can move, we've seen it in the boxing ring, it's just that he hasn't figured out what to do with himself yet given the amount and type of dancing training he's received so far. Most beginning guys out there look much more like him than they do like John. John could go out there right now in an Intermediate-level Pro/Am competition and do an excellent job. He's got talent and Charlotte is an incredible teacher. But Evander has heart, and it really shows through on the screen and in the studio. I wish I had gotten to meet him at the taping, but I was feeling rather shy and so didn't actually talk to anyone except Charlotte and Jonathan. And zigletto, of course.

About the music:
I know this will sound weird to any ballroom dancers out there, but I kind of like it! One of the big criticisms of ballroom is that the music is so "old fashioned" and isn't the stuff that is popular today. I like the fact that the producers are getting stuff that everyone's head on the radio and TV rather than sticking to tried and true ballroom tunes. As far as real Latin music goes, the syncopation of the percussion and clave is often too much for beginners to deal with...they'll try dancing on the off beats rather than sticking with the basic timing, and they'll get all messed up. I've seen this in music used for quickstep, too (with my own dance partner, in fact)...rather than following the brum brum brum brum of the bass line, he'll start dancing with the high-hat hits which run at double time, and the next thing I know we're dancing WAYYY too fast and way off phrase. So anyway, the music is an interesting exploration of taking an older dance genre and fitting it to more current tunes.

About the show in the studio versus the show live:
I think they're doing a great job of translating what actually happens in the studio to what is shown on air. And all the clapping and cheering is genuine and important -- see ballroom dance competitions are sporting events and not performance events like going to a ballet. People are supposed to clap and cheer for their favorites, and as a long-time competitor it's really awful to dance in a dead room. A small portion of the whooping and hollering came from me last week, because I'd feel the room starting to get dead and so I'd start screaming and clapping and other people in my corner of the studio would join in. I really hate it when the room goes dead when someone is trying their best! As a competitor, I really feed off the energy. If everyone in the audience just waited around for the stars to do something spectacular before they clapped, then I think the only thing I would have clapped for the whole time was the last line Rachel did with Jonathan in that rumba. If any of you ever find yourselves at a ballroom dance competition, what you'll see there in terms of cheering and clapping and yelling will be very much like what you see and hear on "Dancing with the Stars."

And as for my picks:
John & Charlotte. The man is really learning to dance, and he's doing it with a great sense of humor and a dash of aplomb.

And as for you all:
You all are fabulous and I'm so glad you're enjoying the show. I think it does a great job of capturing what beginner-to-advanced beginner competitors look like, and it definitely shows the joy and excitement of ballroom dance competition.

Thanks ziglettospal! Your commentary was both enlightening and entertaining.

I hope John and Charlotte get the boot because I can't stand John's expressions when dancing! Drives me crazy!

I was transfixed on another part of Kelly's anatomy last week.

They might as well crown John now. I have no doubt he is going to be the winner. The judges love him, and a certain amount of the public is responding to his "clown" act. I really can't stand the "I need attention" shtick. I had a friend in school growing up that relished his role as the class clown. He'd see a girl walking down the hall that he liked and "accidentally" drop all his books in front of her. She'd giggle and help him.

Some people like mugging, others don't. I never have liked it on any reality characters. The Clowns Jon and Al from TAR? I didn't like their mugging either, but a lot of people did.

I love Letterman's "REALLY not a star" for J. Peterman. I don't know if many people outside of the Seinfeld universe even know who he is. I would have never guessed he used to be on a soap opera. He just doesn't seem the type.

Then you'll love this week. She'll be dancing the jive, which is a sped-up form of swing, but not like Lindy Hop. She'll be wearing another skimpy costume since jive is one of the dances from the "latin" section, and you can bet there will be some shimmying and salacious body waves.

It's going to be fun!

Oh yeah, and someone a long time ago asked about who was doing the show because they're out of work. Rachel is working -- she's shooting a movie right now but I can't tell from IMDb what the title is.

Hey, Zigoletto'spal! Thanks for the commentary--great reading.

I have a couple of question about tango vs. jive. First, do they pick their dances or are they assigned?

And second, I'm thinking that mediocre tangoing would be easier to "hide" bad dancing with than mediocre jive would be. Is that incorrect? Because I'm betting that Rachel will still be posing through the tango.

John and Charlotte will rock whatever they do, and I'm sure their tango will be appropriately...sensual. But why give Evander (or even Kelly) jive to do? Doesn't it seem like they could have pulled off a tango (i.e. hidden their dance problems) better with that rather than jive?

Also, regardless of relative difficulty, I think Joey would get more appreciation from the judges for doing tango than jive and would be equally good on either.

Who decides on which dance each couple is doing?

The dances and the music are assigned. One of the few people I talked to at the show was Jonathan Roberts, and he told zigletto and myself that he had just been told what dance they were doing next week and had been handed the music. So, the pros have a week to choreograph and teach a routine to their students. That's pretty impressive! And with beginners, too. This show is crazy fun.

Different people respond differently to learning and executing the different dances. For instance, I can fake a decent Tango but my Jive would probably resemble Evander's, even though I consider myself to a solidly intermediate dancer. So, Joey can still have really terribly stooped shoulders in the Jive and Rachel can still pose in the Tango, but it's not because one dance is that much easier or harder in an absolute sense than the other. Some people would argue it's easier to hide bad dancing in the Tango, and others would say that the Jive is just easier to learn and therefore can hide less-advanced dancing.

Okay, so that was a REALLY long way of saying "it depends...."

I don't know who makes the decisions as to what the dances are and who is doing them. In this case I personally suspect that it has to do with the pro's strengths and not necessarily the stars' strengths. Charlotte's strength are the Standard dances (Waltz, Tango, Viennese Waltz, Foxtrot, and Quickstep) while Jonathan is a former US Rising Star Professional Champion in the Smooth dances (Waltz, Tango, Foxtrot, and Viennese Waltz) as well as being one of the top 24 in the world in the Latin dances (Cha Cha, Samba, Rumba, Paso Doble, and Jive). HOWEVER, Alec, Edyta, and Ashly are all much more solidly Latin dancers. So if there's any intentional "playing to strengths," it's to the pros strengths -- because at this point in the stars' dancing careers, what their pro does really makes or breaks them. The pro sets the choreography and teaches and dances with the star, so it's a logical conclusion to come to to assume that the better the pro is at something, the more it will help the star.

I'm looking forward to seeing Joey & Ashly do Jive. They are SOOOO CUTE! And Jive won't look as bad with his wonky posture as Tango would.

Evander doing Jive might not be unlike Evander doing Quickstep, unless Edyta can get him back into the ring and convince him that the Jive basic is just that bounce-back-and-forth thing that boxers do when they're trying to get in to land a good punch.

[shameless musical fan plug]All of which will be released in August in a boxed set (Top Hat / Swing Time / Follow the Fleet / Shall We Dance / The Barkleys of Broadway)[/shameless musical fan plug]

Mediocre tango, IMO, is impossible to hide. Quickstepping was never one of my or my former partner's best dances, but we were still able to get above average scores. Tango requires slower moves (compared to the QS), but the intricacy of the movement requires specific timing and intervals of quick footwork and holding certain positions. For every hour of samba rehearsal I used to do, I had to budget three for tango. It was that hard.

Thanks, ziglettospal!.. Please come back after the next show and tell us more!!

OK, now I can admit, since ziglettospal said the music was a good thing, that I kind of liked it...

See, embrace the cheese! It just make the whole thing that much more enjoyable.

I laughed last week when at some point all 3 judges had given their opinion, yet the judge on the right felt compelled to add 2 more cents. I was yelling, "Shut up, nobody cares!"

I know what you're saying, but my perception is that Bruno's just so enthusiastic (versus fame-ho'ing for some extra camera time) that I find it more tolerable when he goes off a bit! He seems to really enjoy giving constructive criticism, which is sadly lacking in many reality/judging tv shows. So I appreciate that.

I can't believe how much I've gotten hooked on this show. My first thought this morning was, "It's Wednesday...hey! Dancing With the Stars is on tonight! Fun!" And then the cobwebs cleared and I realized that it's Tuesday and was totally depressed because now not only do I have 4 days of work before the weekend instead of 3, but I also have to wait another whole day before DwtS. Booo!

Gee, I care. :) I love hearing all the constructive criticism. I feel as if I'm learning something. That's one of the (many) reasons I don't watch American idol. Even Simon's criticism is far too vague for me.

I stand corrected. :) I just find Bruno annoying, in general. I like hearing what the other two have to say, though.

Me too. I wish they would let the judges talk more, and eliminate the whole kiss-and-cry backstage pseudo drama part.

A huge THANK YOU to those who recommended "Shall We Dance?", in the original Japanese version. I LOVED it!! It was the perfect movie and so much better than Baz Luhrmann's annoyingly stylish "Strictly Ballroom".

Has anyone heard Fox is using the same idea for a new celebrity ice-skating show? The new programme is called "Skating with Celebrities" and will pair famous people with well-known pros.

I'm not joking. Leave it to Fox to dumb down a wonderfully entertaining show...

Heh. You have to be kidding.

Ch9 Australia has just announced 'Skating on Thin Ice', based on the exact premise you have descibed above, bagatelle1. Its a pretty blatent attempt to cash in on a proven successful concept, as far as Im concerned.

The bottom of the barrell? She has been scraped.

What? You don't find a 20 minute (enough time to find your partner, convince her to dance with you after a huge blowout, change into costumes, and hit the floor with time to spare) Paso Doble charming?

OK...it was annoying. But "Strictly Ballroom" is based on real people (and yes, I even know some of them) and accurately parodies the true, sickening, political world of competitive ballroom dancing. "Shall We Dance?" has real insight (and some parody), but it's much softer and gentler vision of our bizarre world!

I like to show the Japanese "Shall we Dance?" to friends to show them what it's like to get into amateur competition, and give them a taste of why I love dancing.

Looking forward to tomorrow night!!

Close, GypsyBaby. You're thinking of Personal FX: The Collectibles Show, which was hosted by John Burke and Claire Carter. Tom Bergeron and Laurie Hibbard hosted Breakfast Time, which aired earlier in the day. They did spend a week on PFX as fill-in hosts though, when Burke was still on the road and Claire did a header down a flight of stairs and had to be taken to the hospital. Bergeron was and remains a mensch, and I certainly wouldn't mind if they stuck him out on the dance floor along with the others. Bonus question: which two alum from those days at the FX channel would most of you point to and say "Him? Really???"

Uh, topic?

More effort in showcasing the dancing, less of just pointing the camera and filming whatever the lens hits, please. Ditto to those who've suggested having a demo of what the dance is supposed to look like. Seems like there's a lot of puff pastry and very little meat, which is leaving the audience hungry in a bad way.

barkley, if they have all that on the website, you'd think they could put video clips of the elements the judges would be looking for in competition situations. Show, don't tell. (Thanks for finding and posting the info. You're braver than I to be spending time on that site.)

Thanks to the experienced in the crowd for the commentary. If Glark ever starts a TWoP dance studio, I'm ready to sign up.

First time poster here. Found this forum yesterday, and in reading many of the pages, someone asked if there was a website that you could down load the previous dances from, but I can't remember who posted it, or where in this thread it is located. And haven't figured out how this site does "searches".

At any rate there is a website, someones "blog", and you can at least view the 1st two episodes of each dance, along with the judges scoring. The website is: http://journals.rpungin.fotki.com/dance/entry/wqbkwkdfksd/ I think the person intends on updating it each week.

It was good for me to view the first week of each couple and then the second week to compare.

Sorry if I posted this in the wrong area, but like I said I'm a first time poster. I enjoy reading all of your thoughts on this new show.

Good news! I heard this morning on the radio this morning that ABC has renewed this for another 6 episdoe run. No information on who will be in it and when.

Not sure if this is the answer you're looking for but I believe it's two guys who went on to better things: Jeff Probst and Phil Keoghan.

Topic: The show was #1 for the week, pulling in some of the best summer numbers for ABC in almost a decade. It ranked #4 in Canada.

'Dancing With The Stars' a surprise hit (The picture of Evander is worth a chuckle or two.)

From that article, I quote:


I completely disagree with this! For me, part of what makes the show so fabulous is that it IS c-listers who are participating. It adds to the cheese factor!

I agree, Svenska Flicka. If it were real stars, then it would be tragic to see Felicity Huffman falling all over her own feet. But when it's C- and D-listers, then it's just plain funny.

WHOO HOO on the renewal! I'm so excited! That's just too much fun. I wonder who they will get for the "stars"? Obviously they have some archetypes they cast for:

1) prior teen idol who is doing okay for him/herself now (Joey McIntyre)
2) aging starlet (Rachel Hunter)
3) ABC star with rabid following but who has time for this (Kelly Monaco)
4) older character actor (John O'Hurley)
5) sports star who isn't in training right now or is retired (Evander Holyfeld)
6) other ABC "star" who owes them, such as a reality "star" (Trista Sutter)

So, with that in mind, who would we get next time around?

Hmmm, I wonder if they could get Vanilla Ice - THAT would be entertaining as hell.

I think the show does better with the C and B listers too.

I'm such a geek, I can't wait for the show tonight, although my ABC affiliate isn't showing the encore show - they are putting on some local home improvement nonsense so I'll have to wait until 9 to get my cheese.

Ooh, can I play?

1) Prior teen star? Debbie Gibson
2) Aging starlet? Victoria Principal
3) ABC star? (any ABC daytime actor/actress will do)
4) Older character actor? Elliot Gould
5) sports star (reitred)? Emmit Smith
6) other ABC reality star? Super Nanny

Sports stars: Amad Rashaad, Steve Young, William Perry. (In my head, it needs to be a football player.)

ETA: Oooh, Elliot Gould is a good one! I was thinking Ted Danson, but I like yours better.

Since I already thought about this, I have a handy list (which doesn't really follow the archetypes outlined by ziglettospal)

1. Rita Moreno (fabulous actress but not above the glitz! Oy...she loved hosting Championship Ballroom Dancing!)
2. Heather Locklear (I just want to watch her toss her hair around)
3. Megan Mullaly (because she's just plain fun)
4. Jennifer Love Hewitt (snark material)
5. Rob Mariano (how could I resist?)
6. BD Wong (he's already got a working relationship with Rita from OZ, but can he dance?)
7. Steve Young (see #5 above)

OK, I know I put seven down, but you see there were 7 originally on this cast, but someone wanted too much money and they booted his ass out of there. The other pro would have been great and attracted alot of attention. Apparently they've already promised her a slot in the next cast.

Now, if I follow the archetypes:

1) prior teen idol who is doing okay for him/herself now: David Cassidy
2) aging starlet: Jennifer Love Hewitt
3) ABC star with rabid following but who has time for this: Kelly Ripa
4) older character actor: who wouldn't love to watch Barry Bostwick do this?
5) sports star who isn't in training right now or is retired: Lance Armstrong or Michael Phelps (I'm resisting adding OJ to the list, but he really could use a comeback)
6) other ABC "star" who owes them, such as a reality "star": Ted Koppel

Hee! Burn!


That? Would be hilarious.

For ABC stars, I bet they could get George Lopez to do it. I don't watch his sitcom, but he can be funny. He might be Peterman-esque fun on something like this.

I love the idea of George Lopez. He's funny, handsome in a friendly way, and seems like a really good sport who could throw off some great comments.

Heh, I just saw him last week on "Hit Me Baby One More Time." The boy's got some muscle control, that's for sure. I wonder if he could dance anything other than grab-your-crotch hip-hop, though? I'm with you...I'd love to see Vanilla Ice give this a shot.

P.S. Wasn't he also on one of the Surreal World seasons? He seems to dig the reality show circuit, so maybe it's actually a possibility that we'll see him.

P.P.S. On second thought, the whole posture thing might be too much for him. He's been living the rapper-slouch for so long that I'm not sure he can stand up straight anymore.

So glad there's another 6 episodes coming!

How about:
older actor: John Larroquette
former teen idol: Barry Williams

I can't believe that you all have ignored the following teen idol. Think about it - he can dance and is in desperate need of a comeback.....
Michael Jackson!!!!!!!!!

Tee hee heeeeeee - Aren't I funny??!?!!


On a more serious note: I love the John Larroquette idea - he would be lots of fun to watch!