zigletto Great stuff! You're studio view of the show is telling me Kelly isn't getting screwed by the judge's -- she just can't dance!

And then Kelly uses her magic ring to turn the judges into pigs, and her magical chili causes Tom and Lisa to make out on national TV.

Or various other Elvira Mistress of the Dark references...



If that's the case then they should also be giving Evander and Rachel lower scores.

You are the only one who hasn't seen "Strictly Ballroom". I had to put it at the top of my Netflix queue after hearing everyone talk about the movie.

Kelly and Evander are the only celebs with no previous dance experience, and the judges have been very kind to Evander even through his trainwreck last week. Not so for Kelly. Yes, Evander has brain damage, but Kelly has 2 blown ear drums and is 30% deaf in both ears, so why isn't she given the same consideration by the judges?

So Rachel gets to do another slow dance to pose for us while the rest do a jive? Hardly fair.

Kelly would be miles better if she could figure out what to do with her arms.

Here is the page that tells how the scoring works. It was very probable that Rachel and Jonathan were not the lowest in the viewer votes, but actually ended up in a tie with Kelly and Alec. In those cases, the one with the lowest viewer votes gets eliminated. Someone else upthread did an excellent breakdown of how the votes could have gone and the maximum and minimum number of points each couple could have gotten. Based on those, I think it's a pretty good bet that Kelly won the fan voting.

I read on another board about a bunch of Kelly fans going to the taping and a PA telling them that Kelly fans were blowing up the phone lines and the message board.

From the ABC site, it looks like they start out fresh each week with the judges voting, the only combined scores were from the first 2 nights.

That man made me want to vote for them even though I am not impressed with her dancing. I wouldn't complain if we were able to see him every week. I wonder if they will use the same dancers if they decide to do another season.

I would strenuously recommend this to anyone who hasn't seen it. It's one of my favorite movies of all time, and I enjoy watching it with my nieces, who love it too. It's extremely silly, but it gives a look into the work that goes into competitive dancing. And Paul Mercurio is yummy. My favorite character is Scott's mom: "But he's my only son!"

I don't think the judges are being that unfairly hard on Kelly because she's clearly not that good, but in comparison to Evander they are. Kelly's bad but she's better than Evander. But at least Evander seems to be having a good time. I expect Kelly to outlast Evander though, partly due to rabid soap fans, but also because people like to vote for the person the judges are being hard on.

I'm with you, chickie. Kelly irks me. While I do think that her body allowed her to bring the sexy, she should have thrown some of those low-grade pole-dancing moves Trista's way, cause she sure had enough to spare. There was no dancing! Only... what's the word... undulating? girating? She way over-did it on the sex factor, and completely neglected any sort of dancing technique. And what the hell cheesy-ass song was that? Always & Forever (or Endless Love or Here & Now) are wedding songs left to Luthor Vandross, not sexy rumba numbers. Can we get some real Latin numbers, please? Eet comes from the music!



Sign me up! I'll definitely get in on this action!

I agree. Although to me it appears she is not the greatest dancer, Kelly is still WAY better than Evander. He really tries but everytime he is on screen, I hold my breath hoping he won't trip/fall.



I confess to being a GH fan and that sounds like rabid GH fans such as myself!! I like her and want her to stay awhile but would not want her to win out over John or Joey. The juges really must be Jason/Carly fans. I just can't understand the their Kelly Hate!

I agree with this actually. While I think Kelly overshot the mark this week, I see an inherent rhythm or something like it within her. Watching Evander was painful! I felt so bad for his partner, I have been that girl and it's the worst. Imagine trying to dance/correct someone as solidly-built as he is.

Can't wait for next week though. I loves me some jive!

I disagree, in that we don't KNOW how good (or bad) Kelly is because she rarely actually dances. At least this week Evander actually pushed himself & tried the quick step. The quick step's murderously difficult, and I give him all the credit in the world for trying it! Yep, he stunk much of the time, but he did his best.

So, I'd have to score him higher simply by virtue of effort & attempted dancing. Kelly didn't do much of anything except attempt to seduce Alec & all the males (and lesbians) in the audience (both live & television). The show is called Dancing with the stars...not Seducing by the stars.

It irks me that Kelly would get votes simply because people feel badly for her, or because people are just her soap opera fans & will vote for her no matter what. I love me some Seinfeld, but if J Peterman had stunk, I'd not have voted for him.

I think Evander has some inherent rythym too, he just has a hard time with the steps. The first night I thought he did rather well and did a great job of moving his body.



The Rumba is supposed to be a seduction dance, so I guess Kelly nailed it. When asked what he was looking for in he Rumba, Len said "interplay between the couple, romance, and good hip action".

From the ABC site - about the Rumba...



I'll admit that I voted for Kelly this week and last week, but not because I'm a Kelly fan, but I see that she's really trying and the I feel the judges are being unfairly harsh on her compared to the others.

I agree, and I think making the quick step the second dance he has to learn is just cruel. Clearly, the man cannot flit across the floor, or whatever it was that Bruno was saying. Let him work his way up to that type of movement.

But to a certain extent, popularity is inherent in any kind of voting system. I'm voting for Rachel Hunter. Not because I think she was the best, but because I think she's hot. Shallow? Yes. But if I vote for her, I'm minutely increasing the chance that I will see her again the following week.

Is Kelly being unfairly judged because she should, as a woman, have an aptitude for dancing already while Evander is getting better marks for just trying? Shouldn't the pro be doing more to make the dance work better?

Barkley, thanks for posting the info about the rumba. This is why there should be a professional display of the dance before the pro-ams dance. Then we novices can understand what we should look for in when the couples actually dance.


I’m not sure any of the judges would be moved by that--the men included. Bruno is killing me with his pursed lips.

Zigletto, thanks for the report from the front lines. Are you driving down for more shows? Maybe we can chip in for gas or something!

An amusing review of this show from slate.com wherein Trista's rumba is described as "Nancy Reagan dancing with Fabio" and John O'Hurley is praised for his "Shatnerian aplomb."

Thanks for that link, miak2. Great fun. Your tires are safe now, but can I still have a mojito?

All I saw him do was take a few steps and then walk the rest of the time. He was just as bad last week. At least Kelly did her best with the waltz (and got panned by the judges), managed to charm a very difficult partner, and did even better this week (and got panned again). She just keeps pushing in spite of the judges' double standards. I like Evander, and the judges also seem to like him; as a result they seem almost afraid to criticize him.

I haven't watched GH on a regular basis in years - I barely even know who her character is. She's certainly good looking but I'm not attracted to her. When I vote for her it's because I think she does a decent job and the judges just don't bother to recognize it, all while giving others a break they don't deserve, IMHO.

Thanks for the offer. While I would love to, this depends on 2 things - the professional who put me on the guest list must make it to the finals (which is the next week I have available) AND be willing to let me have 2 seats again. I'll try to nail that down this week. There are no seats available otherwise unless you're willing to stand out on Beverly Blvd, dressed to the nines, hoping that someone doesn't show up for the taping before the cops decide that you're standing too still while too provacatively dressed...



I would offer up that Kelly is not moving; Evander, while a complete train wreck this week, is going for it whole hog. Is this difference partly the pro's choreography? Certainly. Is it partly the nature of the 2 dances they've done? Certainly. Kelly's had waltz (slow, romantic, dreamy and IMHO somewhat melancholy) and rumba (slow, romantic, sexy) while Evander's danced cha (fast, flirty, rhythmic, and fun) and quickstep (the less said the better). But next week they both dance jive. Kelly should have an advantage here if the quickstep is any indication. Plus both Alec & Edyta have kick ass jives.

Last note: tango is a medium tempo, moving dance. Jon & Rachel will be taking up the whole floor, not standing and posing as some have mentioned. And the music will be bound to offend some people; it's not traditional tango. Neither is the music given to John & Charlotte. Don't know what the jives are as I didn't see Alec or Edyta after the taping.

She almost seduced me - a straight woman!!! I felt like lighting a cigarette after that dance.

Trista left me cold. Did she even come into full front body contact with her partner?

Is it pathetic that I am eagerly looking forward to next week's show?

From the ABC website regarding the tango and jive...





I still think it's unfair to have Evander dance 3 fast dances in a row while Rachel gets 3 slow dances in a row. To be fair, I also thought it wasn't right to make the guys do the cha-cha and the quickstep back-to-back.

Word! Maybe it would also help us understand what the judges are looking for and what they are seeing that we are not.

Actually, I was thinking "Poor John." He's either going to have a heart attack from all of this fast dancing or he'll leave in the best shape of his life!

Forgive me if this has been discussed before (I only read back around 10 pages), but is anyone else stunned by the horrible song choices used on the show? I keep thinking that the reason John and Charlotte were so good this week is because their performance sounded as good as it looked. Seriously, they chose music and choreography that actually made them look like professional ballroom dancers. All of these sugary, schmaltzy, bland ballads from the 80's and 90's are really distracting--especially when they are used in conjunction with a hot Latin-style dance like the Rhumba or Cha-cha-cha. Maybe it's just me, but for the Rhumba I want to hear something sizzling instead of the snore-inducing "Endless Love". Of course, if they used real latin music for the latin dances, the couples might have to do more ballroom dancing and less emotive posing...

The dancers DO NOT choose their music. The show's producers choose the music, and it is given to the pro on Wednesday night just after the broadcast. The pro IS responsible for the choreography and teaching the "star". John & Charlotte have been lucky to receive music which sounds more like ballroom music than the others (but that's about to change).

Seriously, tango is not a fast paced dance. It moves, but it's about 2/3 the tempo of quickstep. John will be fine.

Yes and yes to your questions. Lots of people are revolted by the musical choices. Isn't ABC affiliated with Time Warner and Sony? Perhaps they're too cheap to use music they don't own or are trying to promote their lousier back catalog or maybe they think that the dreck is what their perceived audience likes? The networks are quite obstinate when it comes to underestimating their audiences and maybe that's why they only get what they get.

Certainly, join me in the garage for the "D""W"t"S" viewing party! Extra limes for everyone!

So, the producers are straying from the "Latin one week, Ballroom the next" (or v.v.) formula? I was enjoying that 'cause it equalized the playing field--sort of, kind of. Besides, it would be fun to see John and Charlotte do the Jive--the Tango is too tailor-made for them, IMHO.

ITA Maybelline. Besides from the fact that Rachel is a teensy bit more graceful and uses her arms better, I don’t get why she gets the accolades. As I’ve said before, I’m a huge Jonathan fan so I’m happy they weren’t sent home but gawd, how I wish he had a different partner.

O’Hurley and Charlotte continue to please and impress. They were just awesome!

I totally agreed with the judges criticism of Joey’s posture too. I think they have the most potential to win this thing if he could get his dance frame worked out.

Zigletto,
Thanks for your first hand report. That was great.

.

I'm going to predict that although they may move around the whole floor, Rachel will still be mostly just getting in position for her poses. I think that's the basic choreographing philosophy with her--intended to emphasize her strengths (looks) and minimize her weakness (actual dance steps).


I can't understand the producers' thinking. Latin music is hot, why not bring it on?

Better musical choices would only help the amateurs to look and do better. I have no idea why the producers would choose most of the music they have. It's not like its been things that would really reach their intended viewers in any special way.

Do they get professional input on the selections from anyone? I would think the pro dancers could offer some good suggestions, after all their years of doing this.

I know that many have felt it was unfair to saddle Evander with a "fast" dance, but, frankly, I don't think there are any dances left in the repetoire that he could dance well. He may have some rhythm, but for a fighter, he is completely leaden on his feet, which will make him inept at slower as well as faster dances. In fact, his "cha cha" was little more than standing while Edyta busted some flash moves. He gave a few rhythmic steps that weren't cha cha, but probably from his cache of standard club moves, and those looked okay. But they weren't the dance he was supposed to dance. His lack of potential as a lead (which is of great importance in social or ballroom dance) is evident from his horrible performance in a dance where the lead is asked for a little bit more, well, leading: the quickstep.

As for the way the dances have been distributed...I think they are actually being kind to the stars. They are giving the men the easiest dances to "lead" and the women the easiest dances to "follow" up front. The first night I remember saying to my boyfriend (and fellow social dancer), "Oh good gracious, can you imagine how bad they'd look if the men were waltzing and the women doing the cha cha?" Same goes for the last episode; if the women had had to dance the quickstep and the men the rhumba? Ugly. Yes, uglier than what they actually did produce the other way around.

They are starting with the easiest dances. The dances yet to come are harder, and we can look forward to hideous performances from the wooden Kelly and the ham-footed Evander in: fox trot (ouch!), jive (ouch!ouch!), paso doble (ouch! with lots of grimace!), samba (ouch! especially for Edyta's toes), tango (aesthetic ouch!), and Viennese waltz (the biggest ouch of all, and a dance that Evander Holyfield is constitutionally incapable of performing).

In fact, I can't imagine any of the men (except John, who is the only one with a decent frame and who seems to be leading his partner) could carry off the Viennese waltz, and am certain that they will give this one to the ladies. Not too much posing in Viennese waltz, though, so I think Kelly is out of luck.

What is the point of that? Are they given a harder dance because they are in first place and therefore so much better?

Loved your insights, zigletto... thanks!

ABC has put up a dancer's blog.

Nothing earth-shattering so far, just one entry from Charlotte talking about what a good sport J. Peterman is.

I hope that we'll get a snotty entry from one of the pros, but I double it will happen. It's just more light & fluffy cotton candy to go along with the show.

I don't think that the dance distribution was that methodically thought out, although I could be wrong. They are doing half standard dances (waltz, tango, viennese waltz, foxtrot & quickstep) and half latin dances (cha, samba, rumba, paso doble & jive). They also started with the "easier" dances first. Since it was boys vs. girls in the first two weeks, they split it differently this week. Certainly tango is not more difficult than jive. I'm thinking the week after will be samba for the tango people and foxtrot for the jive people...but it's only a guess this time!




Seriously unlikely. First, none of these people are truly snotty, and second, they must be aware that they are creating a public image. Ballroom is all about image, so why would any of them screw with their own?

Yes, but why would only one couple do a tango and the rest of the couples do jive? Shouldn't it be spilt more down the middle?

See, I like the dancing. What I don't like are those horrible hosts and their constant "toting up" the scores...like we can't figure out the math.

Two couples, Jon & Rachel as well as John & Charlotte, are dancing tango; the rest, Joey & Ashly, Alec & Kelly, and Evander & Edyta, are all doing jive. That's a 2/3 split, as even as possible with 5 couples.

I agree with the sentiment that it's not "unfair to Evander" to get consecutive fast dances. I bet it's all random. Also, he shouldn't be given a pass just because he's Evander and because he's terrible. If anything, they should showcase the horribleness because he doesn't deserve to be there at all.

Oh, miak2 - thanks for the link. I'm going to use the Trista phrase over and over again: "Insatiable fame-slag". Hee!

Zigletto -- the first-hand account is great!

Next week should bring both the sublime (John dancing tango) and the ridiculous (Evander & jive.) Poor Evander -- he seems like such a darn good sport!

I disagree blackwing on you saying Evander doesn't deserve to be here. He deserves to be there for my amusement. He tries so hard, yet dances so bad.

This seems pretty funny in hindsight - I was reading a local TV magazine today about the new US version of DWTS, and it names Trista as the favourite...BWAH! In the short article, Trista interviews that she was "a little hesitant" about doing another reality show. Yes, the poor little shy retiring famewhore wasn't sure if she could take too much more exposure. Gah!

Poor Trista. Damn those reality-show kidnappers and their black vans and machine guns! Someone ought to make them stop forcing folks onto reality shows against their wills...

Does anyone think that the producers can "tweak" the public's voting results and boot the couple they want to see go?

Anyone else who thought Charlotte was a little...excessive...with John, may enjoy these snippets from her blog:





Bruno's week 2 blog was very critical of poor Evander--"it was something to behold, like watching the Terminator with Tinkerbell. He was a mess this week and will need to recharge for round three."

In the week 1 entry, he said expected Rachel to be one of the worst but, she surprised him with her ability, grace and "extraordinary potential".

Yow, those Charlotte quotes are certainly over the top. And over the river and through the woods. What a fairy-tale journey, this crappy D-list reality show! Robins are singing for her and her prince! And then Evander... Jive next week? Am I going to hell for looking forward to that?

Yeah. but you're in good company.

I just saw a WONDERFUL documentary called Mad Hot Ballroom, about 5th graders in NYC learning how to dance and competing. I highly, highly recommend it.
Anyway, I'm posting in this thread because Charlotte was a judge in the finals (along with Ann Reinking!).
She looked beautiful and elegant and really seemed to love the kids.

Dave Letterman had a great little "promo" for this show on Friday, showing pictures of all the "Stars" with a note below each picture and voiceover that said:

" *Technically not a star"

-- and when he got to the former "Seinfeld" "star", said,

"REALLY not a star!"

Any suggestions for watching a ballroom dancing type movie? I saw Strictly Ballroom but never really liked Baz Luhrmann so I didn't care that much for it. Is there another one I could try with a bit more real ballroom dancing?

No. But just because I think if they were going to “tweak” it, no way would Trista be the first to go.

Unless they finally realized that America is sick of Trista. And America really, really, really wants her to go away. And, if that is the case, I say tweak away.

I love this show. I love this thread, because I’m going to go watch my DVD of Strictly Ballroom for the third time tomorrow (I just love Baz Luhrmann for some reason). And I am firmly in the Peterman camp. He’s suave! He’s funny! He can dance and mug beautifully at the same time! And he’s not bad to look at! And, did I mention he’s funny?

And that NKOTB Joey is not half bad. Yep, I remember NKOTB. I thought Joey was too young for me, although apparently I was wrong, but I just adore his partner. She‘s shown more personality to me than the other professional dancers combined.

And I wouldn’t mind simply watching, and being in awe in the way Rachel can contort her body. So those are the three I want to make it to the end. Kelly and Evander? Meh. They can leave at any time.

Highly recommend "Shall We Dance?", in the orignal Japanese version. It's very charming and has some truly memorable dancing as well as good vision of what students look like at various lessons.

Charlotte trained Richard Gere for the US version of the same movie. He did an extremely creditable job with his dancing as well. Guess she's just a great teacher!

(stay away from "Dance with Me" with Vanessa Williams & Cheyenne; only the social dance scenes show any good dancing).

But Dance with Me does give a good idea of the Pro-Am competition side of things which the others don't. That is, if I'm recalling correctly.

I'd forgotten until reading about the recent Tyson fight, that Evander was the one who had part of his ear bitten off by Tyson. [/gross]



What about an old Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers movie? "Top Hat", "Swing Time", or "The Gay Divorcee" are three of their best--such beautiful dancing.