Before this weeks episode aired I mentioned that she looks better with straight hair and a pink lip, thats basically what they did to her. I don't know why, but that ugly hair flip and all the gold on her just makes them look HUGE! I wish her regular look were more like this week and that she would grow her hair out. That short hair is so over for her.

You know what I would love to see at this point? Someone HUGE like Drew or Giselle leaving before P. Hell I'd love to see him win it. It just pisses me off that those stupid judges keep kissing his ass when he's ruining the damn show. Hopefully Tatum was enough to bring them to their senses, but somehow I doubt it.

Hopefully George (and the other celebs) will keep mocking his ridiculous ass.

Unfortunately, I agree. I'll admit, I had no idea who she was until last week, but I hope she sticks it out, because I do think she's one of the best ones. And someone told me she's 56? (I could be wrong), but if I'm not, I can only pray to God I look half that good at 46!

Can Lisa's lips go back down? Does she need to have the collagen sucked out or does time take care of it? Who is advising her? Someone sure needs to.

I also really liked most of Samantha's dresses. A big improvement over last year.

I'm refusing to get invested in any more outcomes. After BINX last summer, no more voting etc. Too draining. I'm going to try to watch superficially and enjoy anything - trainwreck or not.

Interesting note: George and Lisa were once in a TV movie together in 1995. It was "Vanished" based on a Danielle Steel novel.

DVD cover

I'm so glad to hear the George is just as charming in person as he is on the TV. I like when people are genuinely nice instead of fakey-fakey nice like Katie Couric.

Yes! Preach it! From your post to ABC's ears, hopefully. Ears/mouse ears, whatever.

But I would disagree somewhat concerning the judges' votes. I think they do have a great impact. Their comments, in a sense, serve up the koolaid.

And I'd be a lot less resistant about gulping it down if I could count on their sincerity and know they were free from producer manipulation.

But examples such as Tatum's rhumba make me somewhat cynical. The judges pretty much completely savaged it. And, yes, it did appear to be highly flawed but certainly not entirely so. I'm remembering her split and the way the dance ended in a kind of interesting and what seemed to be quite difficult to execute pose. Surely these would indicate that a lot of time and effort had gone into the preparation of the dance. And maybe her nerves did get the best of her and prevent her from doing her best. But it wasn't a total bust.

But unless I'm remembering incorrectly, I don't recall the judges finding anything at all positive to say about her dance thereby leaving her exceptionally vulnerable as far as the subsequent audience vote went.

I think if you'll check out the shows official website, and look for the comments in the forum, you'll see that some people are claiming a vote against Master P = racism. Sigh....I get so tired of the same old garbage, especially when the same people saying they wish Master P would be voted off are also voting FOR Jerry Rice.

If we go another week of someone getting voted off instead of Master P, I think it's time to flood the network with phone calls and emails. Unless, of course, he's much improved!

La la. I can't hear you. I can't hear you. The heck with the official site provocateurs. I just want to think about dreamy Nick.

Hey, Nick. Nick Kosovich. Get back here, please. I don't care if you got voted off. Come back to the show, anyway. I miss you already.

I thought there was something particularly affecting about Nick's final dance with Tatum following the elimination. He didn't attempt to use the time to in any way showcase himself with some flourishing or snazzy moves. Although with a partner other than Tatum at that particular moment, some playful and joking dance moves might have been fine. Instead he just seemed to intuitively know to be the gentleman she needed. He pulled her in close to a comforting shoulder and held her hand protectively.

I think they liked each other and became friends. I too read Tatum's book. Dysfunction doesn't begin to cover it. She grew up with a complete lack of structure or sufficient care and even as a child was left to steer the ship. Tatum brought an interesting dynamic to the show. I thought she had dancing talent and would have liked to see it develop further. I hope that her participation on DWtS leads to good things in her career.

SummerBaby: No irreverence intended. Actually I appreciate your information about the official site and will be watching for further developments.

ashleigh Giselle is 45 yrs old and her birthday is on May 15. I just looked it up on IMDB. Yeah I will be very very sad to see her go and I have to say for a woman that age to pull off those splits puts her high in my book! If what I think will happen happens I am going to be pissed!!

I'll be joining you! I can get my TWoP fix from this and Amazing Race, and I might just be able to quit AI for real this time.

I don't buy the theory that dancing well would kill a hip-hop career or turn a rapper into Vanilla Ice II. The Greats [from Afrika Bambaata to Mos Def] could come on this show and dance hard & their poetry wouldn't suffer. Only the ones who are all image and no substance would suffer.

And now for an actual dance question: are competetive Latin Ballroom dances related at all to what we actually do in clubs and bars? 'Cause I know a little bit of rhumba and cha-cha, and couldn't relate the beats and rhythms I learned at all to what I saw on stage.

On the basic level, yes, but if they just danced the basics on DwtS people would be bored. Hence the splits and the writhing and the crazy poses and the pushing and running away etc etc.

If you were to go to a dance studio and learn how to cha cha or rumba socially, you'd be taught the fundamental patterns of each dance and would be able to go out to a club or bar and get along, and would be in a position to learn more of the club style from there. Similarly, if you wanted to get into competition, after you got the fundamentals you could study the competitive style more. DwtS is really just jumping way ahead to the "showdance" style, where competitors choreograph to a set piece of music that they know in advance, rather than just getting out there and dancing. Even in a regular dancesport competition you don't know what music you are getting in advance, and the truly good people can improvise changes to their competitive routines on the fly to take advantage of the music.

I wondered about this. So you are saying that the music is usually undetermined until dance time? What a way to prepare.So your routine, as it were, has to be flexible enough to allow for a faster or slower pace? What about on the dancesport contests I watch on the PBS channel? Do you get to pick your music for your solo dances? I am confused on how this happens.
I have often wondered.. who decides that WHAM! is a good rumba? ANd I have a degree in Music!

Thanks, ziglettospal! What I'm still missing, though, is the beat. Like for cha-cha, you can think of the rhythm as Boom. Boom. Cha-Cha-Cha. Boom. Boom. Cha-Cha-Cha [so technical, eh?]. But even accounting for the flips and spins, I can't pick up the base beat in show-dance styles - and so the cha-cha looks like the rhumba looks like disco looks like emo to me.

Are there sites that will help us understand what the heck the difference is? I tried google and answers.com,

It seems that Drew and Stacy regard each other as their greatest competition, but I think they need to be concerned about Jerry. Not only is he a great athlete who works hard and is improving each week, I think he has a strong fanbase. I listen to SF bay area sports stations and lots of on-air people and callers have been talking about watching Dancing With the Stars as part of their sports line-up that night, just to watch Jerry Rice. I'm talking about fans who watch 2 basketball games, 1 hockey game, then Sportscenter, etc. AND now DWTS all in one night. And the next day, there is a lot of "Did you watch Jerry Rice on DWTS last night" talk. I can't speak for their voting habits, but sports fans are known to be fanatical about who they want to win:)

LOL! I can just see you rocking your head from the left to the left, and then spinning in your chair as you sing song this. Too funny!!!

Yes, but if it's going to be a popularity contest, Jerry will probably wind up like John--lots of admirers and fervent supporters, but coming in second or third place. I'm hoping we'll get to see him dance until the final two or three, but its extremely unlikely, based on how these call-in votes usually pan out, that he could win.

This is what I've been thinking all along. It seemed like the only reason for him to be on there. However, as for the contract thing, I doubt they'd be so restrictive for this show that they'd dictate what the people could do on their own time--they probably were just required to show up. Maybe payments had already been made or something, but even a lot of pro athletes didn't have those kinds of riders in their contracts until they got hurt riding motorcycles or playing other sports. I don't think this show would be able to get many participants if they tried to put too many limitations on them.

What I wouldn't give to see David Boreanaz do "Mandy"--and dance. Alas, I'll have to put up with the secondrate Manilow version. hee

And he made it the classic it was--so much so that I always forget who the female lead was. Heh.

But isn't that kind of the point--that this isn't a real dance competition? This is entertainment meant even for the non-afficionado. If the producers were aiming purely for the ballroom dancing fan, I doubt they'd have the kind of success that they've found. I doubt I'd be watching.

That's exactly why I couldn't get all worked up about him still being there. She was one of those people whom I have to mute and look away from because of the embarassment factor.

No, they didn't--and, frankly, I didn't get it. I've often had doubts about the criticisms of Lisa (whose dancing I enjoy far more than Tia's), as well. I find myself only occasionally agreeing with these judges--but I'm no expert, so...
Except for the hockey part, that would be me. However, I think I've voted for a reality show contestant a total of a dozen times in my life--and none of those votes have been cast since RS:INXS--so I'm not going to have much effect on whether Jerry stays or goes.

Oh, yes, I got that impression, too. And he seemed to be speaking to her softly throughout, and that seemed meant to comfort her, too. I just thought he had the most sophistication and maturity of all the male pros, and I am still sooo sorry that he won't be gracing my tv screen anymore.

If there's a Nick Kosovich fan club, I plan on joining it...

Still.... seeing that he has more money than God and all you'd think he would have been able to find a way out. Or at least use a team of lawyers to tie things up for eternity.

I maintain that he could have gotten out of it if he wanted to and so he is there by choice.
Which still begs the question..... why??

When Tatum was eliminated, I really wish John McEnroe would have been in the audience and shouted "You can't be serious". That would have been hysterical.....

My goal for this week? Save Tia, Free Ashly! Wouldn't that look good on a t-shirt?

Yep. The dancers come on the floor, the MC says to the Music Director "Cha Cha please" and the cha cha starts. However, it is guaranteed to be within a certain speed range as specified by the rule book.

In the group competition, they don't know the specific songs. All they know is that they will get five songs in the order of Cha Cha - Samba - Rumba - Paso Doble - Jive. For the solo show dances, people use their own music and choreograph a number to it in advance. So, what the "Dancing With Stars" teams are doing is the equivalent of the show dances.

In the case of DwtS, it's the producers :-)

Hisurfer is right on target: Cha Cha and Rumba look a lot the same. One evolved out of the other, and without the characteristic music and characteristic basic moves, it can be difficult to tell what is going on. In the Cha Cha, look for the chasse', when the "cha cha cha" part of the music (if they played the right kind of music) would be playing. So we'd see someone dance "side - together - side" or "forward - cross behind - step forward again" on the "cha-cha-cha" in the music. Rumba does not have that chasse' movement, is slower, and is often presented with more sensual "writhey" moves, while Cha Cha is faster and more happy-flirty.

The Stars get Tango and Jive next week, right? Tango is an easy one to spot -- look for lots of head-snappy moves. People will be moving in a kind of cat-stalky way, interspersed with faster attacking movements. The dancers will have soft knees the whole time, almost looking a little bit crouchy as they move around. We'll probably see a lot of hot tricks, this being show dance: the kinds of things we've seen used thus far in the Cha Cha and Rumba will work in Tango. For Jive, it's all about the knee, leg, and ankle action. Dancers should look like they're moving on hot coals, picking up their knees and pointing their feet. There will be lots of underarm turns and spins, and tons of jazzy side-by-side dancing.

If Jerry gets the jive, he'll just need to add some straight up and down posture to his football footwork, and he'll do fine! If Lisa gets it, this might be the dance where she finally gets her legs under her, since it has a totally different feel than the Waltz or Rumba. Tango is going to be a challenge for Stacey, because of her height. If ever there was a dance where there was a danger of her kneeing her partner in the groin by accident, this is it. I predict that if Stacey does get the Tango, there will be little if any time spent in the traditional "closed" hold. I also predict that if Giselle gets the Tango, the producers will make great hay about her father's dancing past. :-)

I'll take one of those t-shirts, whitechocolate!

I don't think John McEnroe would have been surprised. He's not a Tatum fan.

I was really struck by how old she is paired with how needy, whiny, narcissistic she seems, & she passes it off as just being a big kid. Except it comes off sad. I don't think you become what happened to you as a child, it's too pat, but boy she seems like a case. Never got the right kind of attention at key moments and looking for it the same way a ten year old would look for it to this day. She was quoted saying I don't like or love this show anymore. And this is a parent.

Lisa Rinna's whining bugged too. Hey, the geriatric went first to open season II, I'm sure he was nervous. Rinna does a ton of pilates and seems so athletic, it continues to surprise me what a mess of a mover she is and how badly she uses her legs.

I gp back and forth on Stacey. I'm still peeved the women are going into week three of the sultry, posey dancing and the guys have to bust their tails moving all over the floor. After I rewatched Stacey's rhumba I think she might be a little stiff hipped in a quick moving dance, but she moved to the beat she had better than the other women - she and Drew have that in common, they can both move to a beat, she can move with it, against it, follow it, elongate it.

Master P doesn't bother me now. He's part of the drama of the show, and when I see him versus Ashley he's just huge. Up and down and side to side. How long has it been since he's really tried to shake that? He's not grinning like Evander Holyfield but he's not moving any worse.

Thanks,Ziglettospal, for answering my questions. A bit more of what I see makes since now!

Oooooooooooooooohhhhhhh...I'd pay money to see that! Hee :) I can't help it, I lurve him. But whether he brought the suxy, or the leadfoot, I'd enjoy it either way!


I totally agree with this. That's always bugged me about DWtS, and there's no WAY (IMO, anyway) that Stacy should have been scored higher than Drew last week, when he really had to work some serious quickstepping, and all she had to do was shake her booty & move her (tall, thin, ballet-dancers) body around. She hardly even did a single 'dance step', that I could see!

Yeah, I gotta say I was kinda impressed by him. I'm not exactly the target demographic for him, (not being pre-teen, or female) but the song was kinda catchy, and he seemed to be enjoying himself. And (I'm ashamed to admit it) but I found him kinda hot with the new brunette look.



Hello, Drew! I would SO be on board for that. Hell, he was the reason I actually saw 98 Degrees in concert. (What? So I'm shallow.)

WHY, oh why, is Master P still around?
I find it hard to believe that more people voted for him than for Tatum! Especially afte he kicked poor Ashley's gift across the room! I so wanted to reach into the TV and give her a hug after that.

So, over all, I still have to say that Drew is far and away my favorite.
Of the females, I have to say that Giselle and Stacey are my favorites.

No Tatum on Regis and Kelly this morning which seemed odd since last week's "loser" was scheduled to be on. I wonder if she refused to do it. I noticed that she's also scheduled to be on Letterman tomorrow night. I wonder if she'll make that appearance?

I am so excited for this week. I have already been wondering who will wear what and who is going to get what dance! My mom and I were talking about what we think will happen with Master P this week. I think that they will give him the jive so that way people will watch it laugh and keep talking about it. But he won't go even though it was bad. My mom's theory is that they have him do the tango so he doesn't do terribly and then that gives the producers a reason to keep him on. Either theory could work but any way you slice it we think P will be there another week. Also I didn't know that about the music I think that's NUTS! Especially when they picked the WHAM! song.

I think he showed up expecting to get voted off, and be done with it. It's not his fault if people voted for him when he clearly had no skills and made no effort. It is his fault that his behavior is so boorish. It's wrong to be all about the respect, but then not give respect to your partner.

Adding to the 'large and clumsy' observations, P always has that bit of semi-smile that makes me wonder if he's a bit slow or socially challenged: like, I'll paste on a semi-grin so if someone sez something witty I look like I got it; but if it wasn't a joke I don't look like an idiot. That half-smile is usually meant to be social, non-confrontational (some hard of hearing people do it too, as a social signal).

I haven't voted for P, but clearly he's more of a cipher to me than he is to other posters.




I hear a motion, and a second. And a passionate Yea! here. Agreed by unanimous vote??

Lurker (but not new) here coming out just to say hello to everyone. I'm familiar of this board since I used to post here during the Buffy and Felicity years. But kinda left after these shows went off the air. I'm a bit rusty so please bear with me.



I thought they give women what to dance and men what to dance every week? Last week the men danced to quick step and the ladies danced to rumba? Are you guys saying that this week individual celebrity pick his/her own dance?

I hope that this week master P will be voted off. The guy can't dance and he's not even trying. Ok maybe he did try a bit last week but still, he needs to go. I'm voting for Stacy and jerry to go all the way.

I was watching "Shall We Dance?" last night and saw a familiar face- and instructor for the movie- in it... Tony. It was sad how excited I got when I ID'ed him and thought "Hey! That the guys from DwtS!"

I missed Friday's show (damn DVR!) and NEVER listen to the abc.com boards... those people are crazy and only to be laughed at. I mean, they have people on one of their soap boards writing to the NAACP about a CHARACTER they felt was getting unfair treatment. Acutally distributed posters/flyers and wrtie -ins protesting the treatment of said character and citing racism of anyone who DARES to dislike aforemention character.

CRAZY!

I also didn't like the posing and then dance a small bit then pose thing that Stacy did. To me her rhumba wasn't the best of the night for me it would have gone Tia, Giselle and then Stacy. Tia actually got her hips moving and was flowing and was able to keep herself looking sexy and serious in her face. Giselle was smuldering and actually danced(real moves) without touching herself a million times. Stacy has great legs but she posed too much and there was nothing extroadinary about it. Also she was way too giggly during the dance. I certainly wouldn't have given her 10's! I think if Giselle can loosen up more this week she will prove to be intresting competition for Stacy and Lisa. I have to say if Tia can overcome a bit of her self-conciousness(which I understand why she has) then she will be set. Too bad I have a feeling that Tia will be going this week.

Well, Stacy is blonde, tall, long legged, and has abs that is to die for. Just for that I would give her a 10.

That's because NONE of this is the appropriate music. It makes a difference. It's rather irritating as well if you know what the music SHOULD sound like.

So much WORD. Even I, as close to a nondancer as a person can get without being 100%, can recognize all the time how pathetic, how 3rd- and 4th-rate, and how just plain wrong the music is. It seriously detracts from my enjoyment of the show.

I don't get the complaints about Stacy posing. I think she's doing what Tony tells her to do, and so far he's managed to impress the judges and that's his job. Len did call them on it in the first dance, but I think Tony is just looking for a style that highlights Stacy's strengths.

And does anyone think getting those 10s might hurt her with the fan vote in the long run? If she gets three 9s next week, it looks as though she slipped a bit.

I missed the last 30 minutes because my VCR switched to taping Lost. I guess I'll have to check out that Dance Blog for the vidlets. From what I saw, I still think that Drew is quite stiff but he is so earnest and focused that it's quite adorable. Plus he did pull off the choreography without having to rely on shtick ( *ahem* George Hamilton). SO good for him. Jerry Rice will also give him a run for his money. The women ( those that I saw) were all disappointing ( I missed Giselle and Stacy). They all seemed a little terrified and robotic, all holding back a little bit even though they gamely went for the porn-tastic poses and expressions.

This came up on SYTYCD and it was particularly obvious in the ballroom dance segments... when the instructor/choreographer decides to give the competitor choreography that focuses on stunts/poses rather than actual dancing, whose fault is that? Whose knuckles should be rapped? I mean, how many of these celebs would know enough to say: " You know, thanks for the compliment about my gumby-like flexibility but I'd like to, you know, dance a bit more". Do they have compulsory sequences and figures that they get scored on or is it a free-for-all?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered. I swear I've tried to keep up with the thread.

Lisa Rinna and Tia Carrere looked super-hot. Too bad they also seemed scared witless.

They usually alternate each week between the men doing a Standard dance/women doing a Latin dance and vice versa. Because the ladies did Latin this past week, we can assume that the guys will do the Jive this week.
That said, last season there were a couple of times where they alternated couples and mixed up the dances. We'll see what the producers decide.

Posing is part of dancing. It takes skill and grace to hit a pose well. Dance is composed of moving and pausing, not only moving (there's a great Isadora Duncan quote that goes something like "Don't just move. Stand there!").

I find rumba hard to judge since I have no formal training in it. I've done a lot of ethnic dances and once you're trained in one dance form, it's generally easier to figure out what to look for then when you have no training in dance at all. But I just can't figure rumba out. I like it, but I don't know how to tell a good rumba from a bad one.

I like Jerry, and he definitely made progress, but I don't think he's anywhere near Drew. Drew moves really well.

Last year, they didn't divide the tango and jive along gender lines. The tango was done by John O'Hurley and Rachel Hunter, while Kelly Monaco, Evander Holyfield and Joey McIntyre did the jive. It was the last week that they split up the dances.

I have no idea what they're going to do with more weeks to fill. More dances? Get them to do whatever dances they haven't already? It should be interesting.

I have to say if this comes down to Stacy and Drew it's going to be one boring finale for me. I mean the pimping for Stacy has begun since day one and it's very obvious. It's the only downfall to these shows.

What a great quote! But I googled it to learn more ... and ran into some trouble. People attributed it to Martha Graham, Peter Ustinov, motivational speakers, and Jesus on the cross.

But still, thanks, because it helps explain what I did like about Stacy. She had the graceful moves, but also looked beautiful between the moves. I think she'll knock 'em dead in the tango, as that one also has a lot of pauses. I'm not sure what will happen if she pulls jive. The way those legs could fly around, I'm picturing something dangerous. Daryl Hannah in Blade Runner dangerous.

No, there are no complusory figures or sequences on "Dancing with the Stars." It would be nice if there were, because then we could do some apples-to-apples comparisons.

(Ditto for what you'll see on PBS or other televised dancesport competitions, or most of the ones you'll see in person. "Syllabus" events exist, where people can only dance a certain set of allowed figures, but it is generally only the beginner-through-intermediate dancers who participate.)

I didn't see this posted previously...

Tia Carrere is featured in this week's issue of In Touch magazine (w/Nick and Jessica on the cover, natch). It mentions her decision to take on DwTS, but mostly it's a pictoral layout about how she decorated her house. I don't know when the pics were taken, but she looks supermodel slim again.

Okay, I don't even watch this show, but I've already seen Tatum bitching and moaning on 3 different shows today and it's only 4:00. "It's not fair," "They're gonna miss me," etc. What the hell? Is it that serious? She's being such a brat. She was crying, people. I saw tears.

Well I don't think too many will miss her but the "It's not Fair" statment I can kind of understand. I mean how is it that Master P makes it this far and she doesn't when she danced MUCH better than him. I understand that she isn't the most likeable person but she isn't like Master P.

MysteriousKitty said:


I don't know. I don't see the pimping you're talking about. Stacy from the beginning really moves well on the dance floor. She is ballet trained and that really shows on her movement. I'm actually surprised that she can dance that well considering she's very tall. But I do agree with you that it'll be boring if these two were on the finale.




That was what I thought they did last year.

She does move well and she is knock-down stunning in her poses. I'd just like to see more of the moving well and a bit less of the posing.

I see Tia and Lisa and Giselle out there doing a lot of footwork and I see Stacy do one little chasse and then...stick the leg out and lean back really far and hold it. Then a kick-ball-change in her partner's arms and then...oh look, she can put her leg on her partner's shoulder. Annnnnd hold it. Then a perhaps two-rotation spin and....yep, there she goes standing in attitude and...big shocker, here. She's holding it.

That to me is the big difference between Stacy's dancing and the other women. The other women appear to me to be doing more sustained footwork -- like, several combinations of steps in a row (and using more of the floor, as others have noted) -- while Stacy will do a single combination and then pose. Another single combo, then pose. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Knowing how to stand still in dancing is critical, yes. But as punctuation marks between moves, IMO, not as entire paragraphs. Otherwise, it's just...modeling.

Hate to be a PITA, but I can't find this in doing a search. Does anybody know where we can find video clips for each of the dances? Thanks!

You're not a PITA (say, maybe that's what the "P" in Master P stands for!). You can find the videos at Raphael Pungin's blog, and he's gone and simplified the URL too:
http://www.dwts.info

Oh, you beat me! His blog has all the news that's fit to obsess over!

Exactly the same for me, Svensa Flicka, also in my 40s here. Mr. snooky clued me in as Jerry's importance--his name rang a bell, but I would have lost the trivia question about him. My teen son knew who Master Peeee was, but he was new to me. And I kind of knew who Lisa is. I also knew who Tatum O'Neal was, because I'm old enough to remember when Paper Moon was a hit and she won the Oscar (then the whole McEnroe phase, of course.) But George is definitely the most famous one there from my perspective.