The impression I am left with after reading the TV Guide article is that Kelly is still very much positioning herself in feisty underdog mode. And Ausiello apparently is quite susceptible to it.



I sort of wonder what Kelly was wearing while up there on that panel being questioned. It was, no doubt, very businesslike and not at all provocative her being Kelly and all. Oh well, I'm sure that Ausiello was paying no attention to that anyway nor was he trying to picture her in her Playboy Playmate poses.

IMO, it doesn't matter what Kelly was wearing. Is the theory that she is dressing provocatively in an attempt to visually seduce the media into writing good things about her? Because isn't Michael Ausiello gay? He says so frequently in his column, I thought. If so, I'm not sure if he'd be trying to picture her naked and thus was blinded into writing good things about her.

He's usually a very critical, hard-to-please, TV critic (if you can call him a critic), so if he says that she is a champ I think it has some value because normally this guy doesn't like anyone except for Keri Russell and Lauren Graham.

Ooops. My bad.
Darn it!

I have to add that I used to attend these network sessions and most of the critics are middled aged white guys who are thrilled to see the pretty onstage (male and female, lol) Kelly did not dress any differently from any other young/hot female actress on these network panels. Entertainment people are just casual.

Guffaw! Yes I believe so. calli read thru the previous posts, some photos of the event were posted, you can see for yourself what Kelly and the rest of the women were wearing -- I think the ABC exec is baring more skin, it is summer after all!

BTW, I think Kelly is just a firecracker -- cute and sweet but hella feisty, I don't think there's a need to feign it when a room of journalists are questioning your efforts, she's actually probably biting her tongue, I know I would... But I think she's still good-natured about it all -- classy girl!

Facts can be so inconsiderate when they get in the way of a nice juicy theory. My pro-John stance and protective mode were I guess affecting my judgment. And ever since I listened to his CD and became reenraptured, I'm a total goner anyway.

AFAIK, ABC did not turn anything into anything. Any show with fan voting is not going to be anything but a popularity contest. Given that fan voting has always been part of the show, DwtS was never a dance contest.

Exactly. There was this same sort of reaction in the first season of AI. Tamyra was widely considered the best, most talented singer, yet she wasn't the winner. In fact, she placed fourth. The other three arguably less accomplished singers were more successful, for whatever reason, in bringing in the votes.

Glad the press tour revitalized the thread!

Please just link to articles. More in the Forum FAQ under posting messages.

Wait a minute! Isn't there about half a page on this thread just today about how Alex doesn't button his shirt at press appearances and how Kelly should tear it off for him? Maybe Ausiello got a gander at half dressed Alex and decided to love Kelly right then and there. When the main attraction of this pair for their fans seems to be how much they are not wearing, I can't blame anyone for thinking that it is their major talent as dancers. These two have based their entire schtick on being overtly sexual. I'm glad Kelly dressed a little more modestly for the press conference, but it isn't an accident that the first thing people think of when they hear of her and Alex is how they don't seem to be able to keep their clothes on.

You know as I read through the most recent posts it hits me that ABC has to be loving this! This show did SO much better than expected and it has legs that go on forever. Because I believe that ABC has to be thinking -good or bad- it's publicity.

Also, thanks for the dreamy <insert Brady sigh> pictures of Alec. My fangirl heart skipped a beat.

What amuses me most about the ABC press conference is how TPTB can't seem to get their story straight. For example, one exec says that the judges didn't see the missteps (thereby implying that had they seen them, they would have scored K/A lower), while the judges themselves continue to insist that the routine was the best of the evening, even though they've had plenty of opportunity to go back and review the tape. They'd have a lot more credibility with me if they'd just say, "hey, we missed the mistakes - such is the nature of live judging," instead of continuing to insist that the routine was so great.

But otherwise, ABC is doing exactly what I thought they'd do. They are fiddling with the audience voting, even thought that's not really what people are upset about, just so they can say they've done something to "tweak" the show and hopefully bring back some of the viewers who have written them off. (Personally, I waiting for the outrage over "how dare McPhearson imply that the show needs tweaking!" *bg* )

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the audience for DWTS2 will be 30% less than it was for the first season, based on ABC's admission that a "sizeable" portion of their audience was "offended" (an admission which, if accurately quoted, shocks the heck out of me).

Aw, calli :) We might be fangirls of a different persuasion but we are all fangirls nonetheless... that's why this show is so damn good.

Lol pennypen we sail in the good ship SH-Suxy after all, of course in our mind's eye Kelly and Alec are always tearing each others clothes off, hee-hee.

But Alec is a phenomenal dancer, he way he moves his body... mmmm-mmmmmmm....like buttah!

It seems rare for a reality show to generate the same kind of buzz as it did the first season. I think Survivor, The Apprentice, and American Idol didn't have the same kind of excitement over the "newness" of it. Given the huge numbers it put up, it'd be hard matched to repeat that performance. I don't think it's going to do less well because people are "pissed off" at Kelly winning. I think it's going to do less well because some of the novelty will have worn off, and because it will have stronger competition assuming it makes it onto the fall or mid-season schedule.

However, who knows? DwtS could be the rare reality show (Big Brother, which had nowhere to go but up from the horrendous first season, and The Amazing Race, which got horrible time slots and didn't pick up steam until a summer airing paired with Big Brother) that actually does better in subsequent seasons.

We're just being silly and juvenile about what they wear b/c it's fun. There's nothing else to talk about regarding them since the show ended except photos of the two, and speculate on extracurricular activies that I'm sure aren't really going on. I mentioned the open shirt thing b/c Kelly at her GH Fan Club event had unbuttoned his shirt.

As to being overtly sexual, I thought, and ballroomers out there correct me if I'm wrong, the latin dances were supposed to be heavy on the sex appeal and passion and chemistry and all. Hence the teeny outfits the women wear, the painted-on pants and shirts open-down-to-the-pants the men wear, the sexy looks, etc. Kelly and Alec were a latin couple, and John and Charlotte were a standard one. So the one was "overtly sexual," whereas the other was more "Fred and Ginger." It's apples and oranges. I don't think there are many ballroom couples that compete equally well in both types.

I think it's good for ABC to address the concerns...and I do believe that people will come back for the show, especially if they have "better stars" as a hook. I don't think that controversy is necessarily bad for ratings either.

What mis-steps? Other than the slide into the landing, there weren't mis-steps. Are you thinking of the pauses that were choreographed into the routine? The ones where Kelly would stop dancing while Alec directed her to "watch" while he "taught" her the next move? Since those were intentional, they aren't mis-steps.

To me, this just supports their initial opinions about the finale - that K/A danced better that night. If they had rewatched the tapes and still insist that they were right the first time, doesn't that just say that despite the mistakes, they still think K/A deserved to win?

And I still don't understand the criticism about the judges. They've stood by their actions, and have explained very clearly why they scored the dancers the way they have and yet, people and journalists still refuse to just let it go. Whatever.

Another thing,
Must Kelly Monaco have to defend herself for defending herself? I applaude her ability to bite her tongue and keep her composure.

I honestly can't see why she is getting criticised for everything she does. For one thing, take a look at this woman. She is hot and sexy as hell. Short of wearing a burlap sack of course anything she wears will look sexy. If I looked like her, I wouldn't be caught dead in a burlap sack :) (Nor would I hesitate to rip the buttons off of a certain Russian dancer's shirt).

And I stand by my lurve for Dirty Dancing. "No body puts baby in the corner!"

Morning Link Round-up:

Salt Lake Trib -- Ashly and Luis expected to return for second season

Yahoo! -- Kelly as Judge of the "Yammys"

Jam TV -- Debate Rages over DWTS (some more quotes/tidbits from the press event)

Orlando Sentinel article

Chicago Sun Times -- See Kelly Run, Pose, Stab, Dance A lot more of interview with Kelly, and about her being ready for a dance-off.

NY Daily News -- Monaco Says "Dancing" Was Fair & Square

Seattle Post Intelligence -- Explaining "Dancing" Finale Requires Fancy Footwork.

KC Star -- Critics Step on "Dancing's" Toes

Yuck - not IMO. She's got a grouchy, pouty face and boy hips and huge breasts. I don't find her attractive at all. But, anyway, who cares what someone looks like if they act like a complete prat all the time?! I'm not saying that she does, but, for me, looks don't trump behavior.

Sorry, but I don't buy that. If they were intentional, it was a poor job of acting 'cause I don't see it at all. Obviously, just my opinion.

Depends on your POV. If you honestly think Kelly is a great dancer, then I'm sure it would. OTOH, if you think (as I do) that she got by on flash/athleticism rather than substance/style/technique, then no -- it would only show that they are sticking to the script ABC gave them. Which is my point: they are sticking to their story even though the ABC guy went off the page and implied that Alec intentionally blocked Kelly from the judges' view ...


Yep, whatever. *g* I know no one is going to change their opinions at this point, but it's fun to watch ABC try.

I do disagree, though, with the idea that the judges clearly explained why they thought K/A's routine was the best ("of the series" *cough*). Bruno said she improved, so she gets a 10. Carrie said the studio audience went wild -- so she gets a 10. Len said he was asked to judge each dance, standing alone -- so she gets a 10. However, none of these justifications amounts to an explanation of their relative scoring based on technical merit. One judge, I think, did say that John played it safe and K/A did not -- well, that's a bit closer to a real explanation, but it is still a pretty general statement. If the more aggressive routine is not executed well, then I would like the judges to explain why it still justified a 10.

For example, "Kelly's dance included elements of 3 different dances: the tango, the rumba and the cha cha. The execution of the characteristic steps of each of these dances was great. Even though there were miscues in the lifts and elsewhere, they occurred during the "filler" movements, and so were not judged as critically. OTOH, we saw elements of only 2 dances in John's routine: the jive and the quickstep, and he misstepped once during the quickstep and lost time with the music at one point in the jive."

Obviously, I'm just making that up, but I would accept something like it as a "clear explanation." OMMV.

I disagree, but then I'm not a guy. :) I'll leave it at that, because to say more would really be getting away from a discussion of the show!

Thanks for posting newslinks annlaw78

He-heh, Ashly is so darn cute, I wanna see Napoleon Dynamite of DwtS too!


And I want to see the return of the disco-ball trophy! I know everyone makes fun of it... but looking back I think it signifies the light, cheesy nature of this show, and should be kept to remind the celebrities and audience that they are indeed fighting for bragging rights to a cheesy trophy amongst friends and collegues!!!

Hee. Hey Kel, next time one more button, k. Mwah!

Thanks for the articles. It sounds like the reporters were a bunch of jerks. The first question is "What the hell were you thinking"? It's a freaking cheesy dance show not the end of the world.

barkley I think it is as that Seattle writer says:

Every fluff writer is looking for a 'scandal' to latch on to, you know, so they can get indignant about something and feel like they're real journalists, lol.

dominar I know there have been lots of articles linked so you might not had gotten a chance to read them all, but some of them contain more of the judges comments than the ones you quote above. All these articles are just snippets, I wished we had a full transcipt. In most instances, we don't even know the question to which they were replying.

I think the judges are more than able to amply give the response that we are looking for if given the chance to reply with details... but these press cons are a zoo and most you can get out is a sound byte.

That must be why they are treating the show like it's a Supreme Court nomination. "It will affect dancing shows for years to come!"

I liked the disco-ball trophy too! When I saw that that was the award, I started cracking up, but thought it was perfect. Although I do think that there should also have been some money going to charity or something...oh well!

IMHO I like that cheesy disco ball...it adds to the charm of this show. I also don't think it's necessary to give to charity...I don't know, I like the idea that the stars do it for pride. Of course, now that it's a huge hit the stars' profiles and career opportunities go sky high and I think that is what will attract people to do the show. As for me, I love the idea of seeing more of the pro dancers because they were really terrific.

My friends and I used to joke that all dancesport needed was some kind of Tony Harding style scandal to propel it to the mainstream. Well, here it is.

I still think that a dance-off is a really really bad idea. It's a no-win situation for everyone.

If Kelly wins again, then people will either say it proves the first win or that it's unfair that Kelly has been hanging around with Alec so much and so continuing to work on her dancing while John hasn't necessarily had the same opportunities. Or that ABC really had the fix "in." If John wins then it will make Kelly look bad and it will confirm people's opinions that John had an axe to grind. If John doesn't do it, even if he has legitimate other commitments, then people will say he was just chicken. What if Charlotte can't do it? She travels around the WORLD teaching and judging after all, it's not like she's just sitting around waiting for her next job. The whole idea is just unfair and rather silly in my opinion.

And the thing is, as fun as the show was, Kelly and John are just not that great dancers. They are very good beginners, but at heart they're just beginners. In the grand scheme of thing no one gives a rat's behind about what beginners do. If this were some Pro/Am comp there wouldn't even have been anyone in the ballroom watching. The show was fun and enjoyable but as someone said upthread, it's not a supreme court nomination.

However, it could be said that John was the one who didn't play it safe since his free dance contained multiple elements that were not his forte, while Kelly's freedance was filled with the Latin style, skimpy costumes and gymnastic moves that played to her abilities without any elements of classic smooth ballroom dancing at which she proved to be so hopelessly inept and clumsy.

The judges didn't say that Kelly and Alex' dance was the best of the night, they said it was the best of the series. That bothered me more than the 10's because it sure didn't look like the truth to me. I can think of at least 4 other dances, including K/A's first samba, that appeared more polished and entertaining. Those comments really made me wonder what purpose the judges were supposed to be serving that evening and if they weren't there mainly to validate Kelly's coronation as winner of the show.


Maybe I'm the only one, but I think Charlotte has more sex appeal in her little finger than Kelly could ever hope to have in her entire body no matter how scantily she dresses or how many gyno moves she does on the floor. Big boobs and boy hips just don't say 'sexy' to me, though I'm probably not the best judge of sex appeal amongst women.

For my money she and Alex were the LEAST sexy of the competitors. Those that got it don't have to flaunt it, IMO. Of course, Kelly, with her Playboy playmate background, can't be expected to know that it takes a lot more than bare skin and revealing poses. Alex looks dirty, and not in a sexy way, to me when he is greased up to dance. He looks like he needs a bath and maybe a flea dip and a shot of penicillin; skeevy not sexy. Give me Joey or John or even Evander in a tux any day of the week. Both Kelly and Alex are trying way too hard to pretend they are sexy, the ones who really are don't need to work so hard at it.

Maybe it's just me, but her face/hair is the sexiest thing about her. I've got big boobs, and I know they're not that special.
I completely disagree, but YMMV. It's latin dance. From what I gathered, you do what they did in Latin dance. You dress in skimpy clothes, you show a lot of skin. When John & Charlotte did any latin dance, sexy just never came across. Nice to look at, hmm i guess he did that well, those are thoughts I had looking at them. Damn they're sexy, they are soooo doing it, those are the thoughts I had looking and Alec and Kelly.

peppypen, you're preaching to the choir! *LOL* I personally do not think John "played it safe" (nor did Len, at least, if one were to go by his comments that night). My comments were directed at whether the judges had/had not really given an explanation for their scoring, rather than just a justification. So, while I disagree with the claim, I was pointing out that it at least was an attempt at some sort of substantive explanation. (Oh, and I agree with you completely that the "best dance of the series" claim was the final nail in their credibility coffin!)

I think a rematch is a horrible lose/lose situation.

The best thing would be for John to say that the decision was fair and he's not interested in a rematch, congratulations to Kelly, etc.

What if John wins the rematch? Do we do "Dancing with the Stars--Best Two out of Three"?

I voted for John (first time voting for any show), but this just seems the epitome of poor sportsmanship, sour grapes and just general bad manners on the part of his fans. I hope ABC doesn't pursue it.

Agree, Watermelon. I felt like K/A won based on overall presentation of perceived sexiness (not a fan of this couple hence use of 'perceived') whereas J/C seemed (to my eyes) more technically proficient. Maybe that's a solution. The dance show that airs (used to air?) on PBS showcases 2 categories: modern & latin. DWTS could select 2 couples, 1 from each style & then have these respective sub-winners compete -- on the proviso that they must perform the final dance from the other catagory. Maybe that would demonstrate the best overall performance altho I suppose an active fanbase could still skew the votes

WORD to ziglettospal regarding the really horrendous idea of a rematch. I think people like this show for the cheesy puff, let's not get away from that and turn it into 'Celebrity Deathmatch'. Hey McPherson, let's put them in a cage, no holds barred, anything goes, only one celebrity leaves the stage standing, how 'bout that?[/eyeroll]

pennypen whatever floats your boat Re: sexy, everyone has their own preference, no need for debate on this end. You see what you see, we drool our own drool.

But I have no idea what Kelly's playmate background has anything to do with her performance. I dance Latin and incorporate the same movements in our choreography as does pretty much everyone on the floor while we wear our taut clothes -- and none of us has posed in Playboy. And yes, there is skill and technique involved in moving your hips, we even hold specific ballroom classes for this alone.

I have to say though as a ballroom dancer that Standard and Latin styles are completely different animals, apples and oranges, some gravitate to one style over the other. But any dancer would hope that the audience not judge their personal character based on what they wear and intimate with their movements on the floor which can include sexuality, seduction and intimacy -- it's only a performance after all... Except for Kelly & Alec, 'cuz we 'know' they're really going at it off-camera, hee!

Dominar and Peppypen, I agree with you. Kelly should hope that one way she will dance as well as John. I was so surprised to see in our local paper an article chiding the producers and the judges. The producers are being called to task for their "story line" and the judges for their lack of judgement. Fair play is alive and well in America and people get angry when they think someone has cheated. My favorite line is Kelly's "Dance is in the eye of the beholder." Since when is a faulty truism a good come back line?

I love the metaphor you used when you said that the "best dance of the series" was the "final nail in their (judges) credibility coffin. LOLOLOL

My problem is with the ABC "story line business", but more so the judges. Dancesport, along with all subjectively judged sports/activities, has credibility problems with judging, and this show didn't help. The average person isn't going to know that all Dancesport judging isn't as flawed as portrayed on DWTS. Furthermore, Dancesport judges look at the quality of dance movement and not any gymnastics etc. Carrie Inaba's comment about a back walkover was off topic.

I know the producers didn't intend this to be a Dancesport competition, but they used the form and the pros and then didn't follow up with the judges, who through out yammered about footwork and posture and other conventions of Ballroom dance and then switched the criteria at the end.

ROFL! It's the reality show that never ends!


Yep, although in hindsight I think there was evidence of selective criteria being used earlier on, too. ... But that horse's corpse is starting to draw flies. :)

No, it's not a Supreme Court nomination, but I think the first season of DWtS could end up being more than "just" a tv show.

In the same way that Erin Brokovitch, was more than just a movie. This may come across as a bit way out (alright maybe a lot way out), but I think one of the effects of that film may have been to help mainstream slut, so to speak, posturing. (Wait, please, don't leave in exasperation just yet.)

The main character there was very admirably pursuing social justice. Who chose not only to dress like a slut but to celebrate it. The fact that the character was being played by such a popular actress, Julia Roberts, had the resulting impact of legitimizing this.

Suddenly it was ok for "all" women to walk around in clothes that put their breasts on a silver platter. -- Here, have some, No, not you, silly. I meant that Harvard grad and leading man right behind you.

Now Kelly is not Julia Roberts, but there is something very appealing about her. She's tiny, she's cute, she's feisty. For all of the 8 year olds out there watching, there could be no better spokesperson for wardrobe malfunction. Hey Mom, that Kelly is so pretty. When I grow up, can I have a top like the one that almost fell off of Kelly. That was so funneeeeee when it happened. Hey Mom, look. Watch me do the Samba.

Well, all of this is probably a moot point anyway since a quick glance at the pop culture would seem to indicate that this battle has long since been lost but although there is a lot to like about Kelly, this has been one of my concerns about her on the show. Although I am, no doubt, a minority of one.

She sold it to Hef early on, she's perfected it on the soaps, and she was selling it on this show. I'm not trying to lay western civilization on her doorstep (although come to think of it she did choose to spend the 4th of July among the denizens of the Playboy Mansion), but I think that when someone this winningly winsome is coupled with the message of "lap dancer who really is putting herself through medical school," it can have, I don't know, troublesome implications on the huge audience this show had of pre-teens and teens.

Kelly may not have volunteered for the position of role model but when a show is this popular and has such a large audience of families, it just happens automatically. Although maybe the message the kids will get instead will be to persevere against all odds, keep trying hard and eventually win.

I have no problem with the sexuality in Latin dance; however, female and male Latin dancers use technique and artistry in dance to win and not just sexuality and costumes. That for me is the difference between Edita vs Kelly.

rumbawalks the freestyle programs seized to be judged by dancesport standards by virtue of them allowing lifts as a legitimate part of the performance, as well as allowing a combination of hodge-podge elements from different styles. If they allow lifts then the judges have to consider them, and I don't think Carrie's comment is therefore off-topic -- she's commenting on a legitimate element in the program.

Again, in the 25 seconds that John bopped, moved side to side and swivelled his hip -- none can really be considered dancesport either -- at the start of their routine, within the same time span, Kelly performed 2 difficult aerials. I think the judges took that into account in terms of risks.

ETA

The difference between Edyta and Kelly is that Edyta is a trained professional dancer, Kelly is a complete beginner. I would not harp on John for his lack of technique in his footwork and compare him to Jonathan. John is a very good beginner dancer in Standard and a fairly good beginner dancer in Latin. I give them both props for what they accomplished in the short amount of time, but Kelly did not literally beat a 'Fred Astaire'.

Sorry double-post!

Nah, I think most kids wanted John to win, too *eg*

But seriously, while I wasn't worried about it from the POV of my 10-year old son (he did want John to win), I had another friend who had the same concerns as you. Her two young daughters (age 4 and 6) now want to dress like Kelly. *rolls eyes*

But our civilization survived Madonna. We can survive this :)

Well, my 6 year old daughter loved Kelly and Alec and she has no intentions of dressing like Kelly. What she saw is that hard work pays off and she's excited about going to dance lessons because dancing looks like fun.

I don't think DWTS will lead to the downfall of civilization.

I'd like to add that throughout the whole season, all the stars worked hard, and with Kelly especially, she's always said it was hard work to get results, whether we think they were great or not. In any case, I think whatever benefits she is receiving from DwtS is well deserved.

calli I don't know what to say about Erin Brokovich except that I would rather have my kid dress the way she does and fight for social justice than dress classily in buttoned-up suits like the PG&E execs who knowingly allowed people to suffer for years because a pollution clean-up was just not cost-effective. But besides the point, it's not like Kelly dresses like this everyday, it's her performance costume!

If children watched Latin ballroom in PBS, they're going to see the same costumes, if they see Cirque du Soleil, they're going to see more or less, if they see a tribal dance on National Geographic, the women might even be bare-chested... at some point children with their parents help will have to discern things and understand things in context, and take things that are positive about performance art, as barkley mentioned, like hard work, commitment, creativity, passion, whatever...

I mean when I was growing up my mother would always say to me -- clothes do not make a person.

ETA Thanks annlaw78. BTW, here is what Len precisely had to say:

I'd like to "ditto" Watermelon and Djork's posts, and add a bit of my own.

Because it was more aggressive than the previous routine that justified a 9? Len was quoted in one of those articles as saying that 10s weren’t for perfection but were relative to John/Charlotte’s all-9 routine. John and Charlotte, for whatever reason, decided that he would not dance for the first third of their freestyle. During the first 30 seconds, he basically just stood flat-footed on the dance floor while Charlotte walked around him, and then he moved on to demonstrating how not-to-dance. To me, that "resting time" in the beginning should have been marked off for, and I was quite surprised it won them straight 9s. It basically turned a 1.5 minute performance into a 1 minute performance, which I thought was unfair.


I agree with Djork – I don’t see what Kelly’s past has to do with her dancing. She has never brought it up, nor has anyone on the show or in an interview later. Rachel is most famous for her swimsuit modeling and most recently the "Stacy's Mom" video. Trista logged plenty of airtime in the hot tub in her swimsuit. The fact is, most female celebrities are going to be attractive, and are going to wear less clothing than we wear or would want our children to wear. I just don't see why Kelly's past is really relevant to this discussion, other than to somehow discredit her by Hester Prynne-ing her. She's not the first person to appear on television scantily clad. At least there was a point to it for this show: that's the way latin ballroom dancers dress for performances.

Kelly didn't design nor sew the costume that broke, so I don't lay the blame for that at Kelly's feet. Rachel was wearing tiny outfits, too, as was Edyta, and I'm sure Trista would have as well, had she lasted longer.
.
Word, and hee!

ETA: NY Newday -- DWTS Changes Voting
Looks like next season we'll be getting a results show, so hurrah, more time that must be filled with dancing... and hopefully Alec (sigh!).

As opposed to Kelly doing gymnastics and/or being tossed around by Alec for a good part of hers?

Clearly, there was extra, non-dancing "filler" in both cases. I think it's very debatable as to which couple spent more time "not dancing" in their routine.

But back to my point: just saying that one routine was more difficult is insufficient. Should a diver who does a belly flop while attempting a difficult dive score higher than someone who nails a dive of a bit lesser difficulty? And how to you measure "difficult" -- as someone pointed out above, was it more "difficult" for John to attempt something well outside of his comfort zone or for Kelly to stick with her tried and true routine? Is it more "difficult" for Alec to spin Kelly around like a top, or for John to do a basic lift of Charlotte?

It's all relative, depending on your POV and which criteria you use. For all their soundbites, I have yet to see the judges lay out the specific criteria they used and explain how they applied it in each case. I know Carrie, for one, has a website, so it should be possible to provide this type of explanation/analysis. Of course, I don't expect them to do it, but if they don't, then they should accept that people will continue to question their credibility.

Perhaps a dancer out there can confirm, but those two last aerials required a lot of work on Kelly's part. It's not just Alec tossing her around -- she had to hold her body out straight during the "helicopter." I, for one, am sadly lacking in the ab department to do that. It was a freestyle were lifts were encouraged; they did several lifts that required timing, keeping on the beat, strength, and agility on the part of the star. I don't think standing still required much timing, rhythm, strength, or agility on John's part.

The pro-Johns and the pro-Kellys can go round and round about this (and I think it's fun to!). My take on it is that Kelly's non-dancing filler at least required her to move, whereas his was more of a resting period. So if Kelly was a bit sloppier at the end of her routine, well, she'd been exerting herself for the entire minute beforehand, as opposed to John, who had a light job in the beginning of his routine. I wouldn't consider Kelly's routine a "belly flop, but maybe others do.

As someone upthread said, they're both beginners, and neither were great by any means. They both had very skilled partners that choreographed to their strengths (J/C's freestyle being an anathema, IMO) and whose own dancing abilities distracted from their star-partner's weaknesses. I found Kelly/Alec more entertaining, but I also enjoyed John/Charlotte. Towards the end, John's hamminess sort of detracted from his dancing, to me, and I preferred Kelly/Alec's intensity and energy. But I know lots of people preferred John/Charlotte, so I know it's not like I'm "right" and everyone else is wrong -- to each her own!

dominar I think I mentioned this earlier, but the freestyle rules allows lifts and carries as part of the program, so technically, the 2 lifts that K&A do at the end is not considered filler, they're legitimate dance elements at this point -- just as lifts/aerials are considered dance elements in other competitive dance styles like lindy hop. Same goes for John's lift and all the variations of straddling that occured. In fact K&A first lift is similar to the ones performed by J&C during VW night. Dips are elements of dancesport so they are not filler either.

However, bopping, having your hip swivelled and moving side to side -- for 25 consecutive seconds! -- though quite musical and entertaining, will give you a difficulty level of 1 out of 10.

I think the freestyle rules were imported with the show, but I agree perhaps they should reconsider allowing lifts in the future because it does give a bias depending on size and experience -- e.g. pretty sure Alec and Evander could, Louis and John could manage, don't think Jonathan and Joey could lift their partners overhead, and whether they should is another question depending on their experience. Though there are equally flashy lifts couples of more even size could attempt like the ones done by J&A on VW night.

Anyway, in this instance, lifts were allowed as dance elements, both couples attempted them, the judges could not exactly ignore them. ETA annlaw78 I have done quite a number of different aerials and yes, the female has to have good technique and control, and maintain her core strength when doing these maneuvers.

I think it has a lot to do with the way she presents herself on the dance floor and elsewhere. While I agree that latin dances are more sexually explicit and the dancers often dress in more revealing costumes than in classic ballroom performances; from what I've seen (and please anyone with more experience in dancesport please correct me), there is a broad spectrum as to how couples choose to present themselves in latin dance. From what I saw on the show, Kelly and Alec were at the far end of the spectrum, Kelly choosing to wear the skimpiest costumes and both of them doing moves that were more overtly sexual as part of their routine. It's my understanding that, even in real dance competitions, there is controversy as to whether this is desirable. Certainly all of the women wore more revealing costumes for those performances, but Kelly's were consistently the tiniest and her dances with Alex were consistently the closest to R rated.

I'd also say that since Kelly allows PR photos to be taken of herself attending Playboy functions and posing with Hef (ewww!), she doesn't consider her playmate days to be behind her but an important part of her career to this day. Wasn't she hanging with the bunnies just a couple weeks ago? I personally don't find Playboy, its image or the sort of lifestyle that Hugh Hefner promotes (old dude in his pj's tossing parties populated with half dressed women young enough to be his granddaughters whose sole function seems to be as decorative objects) to be anything other than kinda pathetic. YMMV.


I don't think anyone disagrees with that, but I also think everyone watching the show understands why it was impossible for John to match those sorts of moves since he hadn't had the years of experience to do it safely as Alex had, nor did he have a partner who was as teeny tiny as Kelly. None of the male stars were going to be able to compete with Alex and the other pros when it comes to doing lifts, nor were any of the other women, competitors or pros, as easy to lift as Kelly was. While it's great that Kelly tried the lifts, John cannot be faulted for not competing with her on them. As has been pointed out repeatedly, since they need to lead their partner as well as be able to lift them safely and smoothly, all of the male stars are at a disadvantage in this competition. I think we can all also agree that both Joey and John did a whole lot of work learning to lead their partners that Kelly didn't need to worry about. They all worked really hard from what I saw and good on them for doing it, but I never got the impression that Kelly worked any harder than anyone else.


My understanding is that they all had a say in how revealing their costumes were, so Kelly did indeed choose to reveal more skin than any other woman on the show, as I recall. That was her right, but, as I've said above, there's a broad spectrum when it comes to this sort of thing, and Kelly's consistently on the far edge from what I've seen. I personally find it more attention seeking than sexy, but I realize there are a variety of opinions on such things.

Remember when Kelly did a sliding split to collide with her partner's crotch and wrap her hands around his ass - sorry, that was John and Charlotte in the Tango. Or the time when Alec was doing a move that looked like he was smacking Kelly on the ass - nope, John and Charlotte again in the Samba and Joey and Ashly in the Samba. Okay, they were the only ones who did bump and grind moves - negative again... Edyta and Evander's Cha Cha Cha and John and Charlotte's grinding during the freestyle.