He apparently is quoted recently as saying that Rachel was the better dancer, and would have given him real competition ("kicked my butt!") in the finals. Uncool.

And yet look at all the recognition he had from those appearances, given the huge audience Seinfeld had. Much wider recognition than a soap actress. There was a bit of face recognition from when he did those commercials for, was it IBM? The ones with everyone in togas. I don't even recall the company, just that J. Peterman did those toga commercials.

As a GH semi-watcher, I've never liked Kelly's character, and had no fan investment in her. What got me to watch the show were three things. 1) Dancing. Love to watch it. I think life should be like musicals, with people spontaneously bursting out into song and dance throughout the day. 2) J. Peterman, whom I'd always enjoyed and thought rather sexy (until JOH's sour grapathon). 3) Curiousity about what Kelly - for whom I had no use on GH - would be any different outside the soap (i.e. - is she really so 'meh' or is it the crappy writing and production values on GH). The first two weeks, I wasn't even moved to vote. Peterman was pretty good, but the kind of dancing he was good at just wasn't that interesting to me. Plus, I never cared for Charlotte because she looks so plastic and fake on the dance floor. Kind of freaked me out. I never voted until the third week, when I saw a change in Alec's choreography, and improvement in Kelly's dancing. I wanted to see more. By the fourth week, I was very impressed with K/A's improvement as a pair, and with Kelly's spunk and determination. So I voted for her and Alec on the fourth and fifth weeks. As far as JOH, I often thought Joey was as good as, or better than, JOH. I saw them as pretty equal. The one advantage JOH had was that his silver fox looks and ability to wear a tux fit the "geritol" style of dancing which he does best. That's why I figured he'd make it to the final over Joey. John was good at what he did, but good doesn't mean it interested or entertained me. I find the Latin stuff much more compelling and enjoyable. I think anyone who can pull off the Latin routines will be more of a fan fav than someone whose strengths are in the waltzing direction.

The problem I have with as well as most conspiracy theories is that it would be giving the ABC Gods waaay too much credit. It's not Network. And that is some chance they're taking hoping Kelly would pull through and keep fighting in the competition. What if she got discouraged and gave up? They can certainly manipulate the audience through the magic of television but how much control do they really have?

BTW, I love that this thread is still going strong - gives me something to look forward to at work ;) Hopefully the bad mouthing stays between John O'hurley and Entertainment Weekley ;)

PS> Any reports on Alec and Kelly in her fan thing yesterday?

I was there the night the quickstep show was broadcast. The floor at the show was quite small, I'd say half the size of what was really needed. However, I don't feel that any of the couples really moved enough that to make it much of a problem -- all the stars danced at a good "advanced beginner" level, and none of them have developed the kind of floor-covering abilities that the top amateurs and pros have.

I think John doesn’t realize that he is actually inadvertently insulting the DwtS viewing audience with this statement.

Yes, more than likely there are fans who tuned in because somebody they liked or someone they were familiar with was on the show, and you can call them a fan base.
But I think it’s a little presumptive to insinuate that just because somebody is a fan of one celebrity that somehow they are blind-struck followers and somehow incapable of appreciating dancing in general or the quality of dancing of the other performers. IMHO, I don’t think that’s a good characterization of the general viewing audience, at least not the people I watch the show with.

For instance, I was only familiar with Rachel, never a fan, but she became my favorite because of her beautiful lines. I’ve never heard of Kelly before but she won me over with her Samba. On the other hand, I’m a big fan of Evander, but would not have voted for him to stay on. I was also a big fan of Seinfeld and loved John’s dancing, but disliked his final performance. My point is that IMHO people are more than capable of appreciating dancing for what it is, even changing their preferences, regardless of their previous familiarity with any of the celebs.

It’s not like there’s this huge, gaping disconnect between popularity and dancing. It’s equally likely that more people voted for Kelly, and therefore she had the ‘popular’ vote, because more people liked her dancing.

OK - I'm going to do a seemingly weird thing here...;)
Like coming to John O'Hurley's DEFENCE...

None of us knows what actually happened that night. We only have a couple of versions of events. There may be more to that than either side has stated up to this point. I don't know if anything might have been said to him prior to dancing that night - nobody does. But now that I think about it, that COULD be a possibility. Two questions....what was said, and who did the talking? Just another piece of the puzzle. And until we have all pieces from all sides and have put them together to get the real picture, perhaps people should refrain from tearing a strip off his backside.

The first impression I got of John O'Hurley was that of a real competitor. To paraphrase a newspaper article (NY Times, I think) he was going to be NO ONE's "Cute, cuddly older guy good for a few laughs." Right from Day 1, he was about as committed as someone who had a 7 hour a day, 7 day a week training schedule could be. Hell... EyesOFire49, our partners and I train 3 hours a day 4 days a week - and that's tough. Tough on the body, tough on the mind, tough on the emotions. An ordinary human being would have been broken by that work-rate before the end of Week 1. Instead of breaking, he ate it up and asked Charlotte for more. :) No doubt about his mental toughness here.

There's nothing wrong with having passion for what you're doing and wanting to win. After punishing your body in practice, it's only natural to want to let all that stress and passion go into putting a great performance on the floor. After living, eating, breathing and sleeping dance like he did I knew that this man was intense, full of the passion that makes champions. You know....dream big, go big and dance big. There's no other way to do it. :) You live in the moment...

Unfortunately, things don't always go the way you want them to. I think even HE knows that. I've lost many a competition...even got disqualified in one for a wardrobe problem on my part. ;) Now, while I've never liked to lose, I can ACCEPT the fact and learn from it if I knew in my heart that the dances or effort I put out there wasn't my best on that night. Now John and Charlotte - I saw it in them both. They had that look in their eyes that said "Wow, did we ever get it done tonight!" As a dancer, there's no other real explanation except that you just "know" when your routine was something special and you did well. However, I know I'd be upset too if the effort I gave was consistantly superior, but come championship finale time all that held little or no meaning. Being completely honest, I've been upset enough sometimes that I've blown up - whether it's in anger, frustration or the high emotion of the moment. After all the practices, pain, exhaustion and constant pressure - let's face it, I'm willing to bet that his emotional wire was wound pretty tight as well. Do I fault him for being upset and speaking his mind? No, absolutely not. We ALL have those moments, whether it's in competition or in life where we snap and need to vent that frustration.

As to WHY he's gone off - I can't presume to say that what he's doing is right or wrong. But if speaking your mind and telling the truth about how you really feel is a crime, then some people have him guilty as sin on two counts. You wouldn't logically convict a person of a crime if you didn't have all the needed evidence. So why crucify John O'Hurley when all the pieces to the big picture aren't there? Until I have undeniable proof in front of me, the only thing he's *guilty* of in my eyes is wanting to win so badly that in the end, his emotions got too him a little too much. That shouldn't mark him as a *cry-baby* or a *poor sport*- It happens to the best of us in the heat of the moment. Eventually, when he's ready I'm sure he'll put this whole thing behind him and move on...presumably with Charlotte on Broadway...:)

And there's nothing wrong with that.


BestOne76 (with help from EyesOFire49)

peppypen I think you can say the same about Seinfeld's 18-23 million audience at its prime. Did you guys know 76.2 million people tuned in for the Seinfeld finale?[/useless Seinfeld trivia], and I'm sure it's also gained new fans as it is shown everyday on syndication and it's a damn good show! From GH fans here, I understand Kelly has only been in GH for a year or so, so it's not like she's a long-standing actress in the ensemble cast.

There's also likely a cross pollination within the audience. I'm sure there are GH fans who once wanted to marry Joey or were Seinfeld fans themselves. I also don't think it's safe to assume that all GH fans would automatically and blindly support Kelly, just like not all Seinfeld fans would support John. Remember, just because someone watches Smallville, doesn't mean they would rabidly vote for its star Kristin Kreuk if she ever went on DwtS![/Smallville fans know what I'm talking about!] ;)


BestOne76 I agree that John is probably just very disappointed, I don't think he is some horrible person. But at the same time, it's why you go home, and vent and moan to your spouse -- not around the gossip mags who will run what they can. BTW, it's so cute you post together. Does EyesOFire49 still not have an account? How do you do it? Does he/she stand over your shoulder and nag you to type?[/teasing] :)

I agree, while interest in seeing performers they've appreciated in other venues might have caused people to tune in initially, it doesn't mean that those viewers were frozen in their preferences and would never vote for some other competitor or even vote at all. For example, I had no idea who Kelly was, I'd heard of all the others and only had negative feelings about Trista when the show debuted. I didn't go into it preferring John's overall performances, thinking Evander was sweet but leadfooted, that Rachel had nice posture and carriage, that Joey had a ton of showmanship or that Kelly worked hard though her dancing wasn't my cup of tea. that developed over time. I'm sure I'm not the only viewer who preferred different people on different nights.


Kelly is an ABC employee, she is not contracted with GH, she works for the parent corporation. Had she tanked her performances, she would have given her employer good reason to be displeased with her. Despite everyone stressing the long hours soap stars work, she makes a very fine living, much better than most other actors, why would she bite the hand that feeds her so well? Also, the show was a hit from the very first airing, certainly Kelly was aware of the sympathy she garnered from the audiences after the judges tore her apart; why wouldn't she want to take advantage of that and use this hit show to gain a much wider audience as well as fan approval that she could never get on GH? She's no fool, it was clear from the start that her career was going to benefit greatly from this show, stepping up and doing her best was the way to capitalize on that, she knew that and she came through.

I'm sure ABC did focus groups on the show and its performers prior to the first broadcast and developed storylines for every single performer to give them a drama to play out over the course of the series. Kelly's was that she was the feisty underdog, it played that way from the very start of the show. ABC might not have known she was going to win (but I'll bet their research, combined with the voting rules, gave them a very good idea that she was a good bet), so they played up the underdog gimmick from the start, making her the Cinderella story that TV loves so well.

So true! That's why I wonder about the plausibility of a John/Charlotte ballroom Broadway show. John's dancing, as entertaining as it is, isn't up to either ballroom or Broadway standards yet, and I don't know that it will be in the near future. Or maybe their show is going to be some kind of comedy/dancing thing, with Charlotte and a bunch of backup dancers doing the heavy lifting, as it were, and his doing his "Peterman in Spats and Tails" routine.


I'm bummed the new season doesn't start until January. I was hoping they'd have a show planned to pick up for one of the inevitable new-show cancellations in the fall. I wonder if they will have difficulty getting a new batch during the spring, when (presumably) stars that are currently involved in non-soap television are likely to be busy with day jobs (and not on summer hiatus). I also wonder if all the Kelly backlash has, as others have mentioned, made others wary of doing the show.


I think that's a perfect way to describe why some people preferred K/A and others J/C. I liked them both, but I found the dances K/A did more exciting, more "can't wait to see what they're going to do"-ish.

See, I liked John and Charlotte, but style-wise, I'm all over the Latin dances. Those were my favorite to watch when PBS aired the ballroom championships. My loving the Latin dances means that I should prefer Kelly and Alec to John and Charlotte. However, I wanted John and Charlotte to win because I thought that they were better dancers (freestyle fiasco aside).

I see what you're saying. What I meant was that I don't believe Kelly to be a willing co-conspirator. Sure, she probably realized that since the judges were bashing her needlessly, she was at the bottom, that she could garner simpathy votes and that she was the underdog. I don't think she nor any of the 'stars' knew how well this show was going to do. And I didn't mean Kelly literally giving up when the chips were down, but she doubled her efforts instead of just coasting. Hopefully that all made sense! :)

Anyway, I'm not trying to put down anyone's comments - just trying to show my pov. I don't think there was a conspiracy except for the typical manipulations reality shows are guilty off, which is why I lurved Joe Millionaire (the original) so much coz they weren't even hiding it.

O'Hurley has every right to express his opinion of the show and his obvious disappointment but does he have to? Should he? No. And honestly, why is he making such a big tiff about this? It's a reality frickin show. He's had several days to regroup and get over the loss (or apparent robbery in his eyes) so there is no excuse for making comments that make him and the winner look bad.

Here are two new articles to critique (instead of other's opinions). And, fwi, I originally voted with the purpose of getting rid of fameho Trista, so I voted for Evander, thinking he was the underdog. And I remember voting sometime for Rachel, but don't know exactly when. But once Kelly's spunkiness became apparent (and, yeah, Alec's sexiness didn't hurt), I was behind her all the way. I never could stand O'Hurley's smug entitled attitude.

The first article (Monaco steps to top with soap fans' help) contains quotes from Conrad Green, the excutive producer, addressing the implied "agenda" that has been mentioned by one of the participants.



Green also says he'd like to extend the show a week so we can vote on the actual final performances. In my opinion that won't make any difference. We'll still vote for our predetermined favorites, no matter what. But that may help to quell potential rumblings from any future sore losers.


The second article (The Right Step) is from a Scranton, PA newspaper and has some interesting tidbits I haven't heard before.



Also, there's a sidebar to the article (About Kelly Monaco ;The Right Step ) that contains this information:



Once again, I apologize the my fellow shippers.

ETA the IMDb page for "The Band Wagon" staring Fred Astaire and Cyd Charisse. The good news for the diehards is that it was released on DVD this spring.

Well, if that's a direct quote, that is one sloppy/stupid reporter. Ginger Rogers is nowhere near "The Bandwagon." That's Cyd Charisse. Kelly Monaco is no Ginger Rogers, but she'd need another foot of leg to try to emulate Cyd Charisse. He should've been showing her "Flying Down to Rio" or maybe "The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle," not because it would be helpful, but because it's really, really funny to think of Kelly in her skimpy outfits doing the Castle Walk. Better yet, Alec and Kelly should step away from the Fred Astaire.

I think I know who Kelly's boyfriend is now. He has been in the audience of the show many times and he went to the Emmy's with her.

I think there was type-casting from day one but to the extent some people are suggesting. Kelly was talked into doing the show at the last minute, like Evander. Far from being the biggest "star" I think she was considered the least significant star. She had never been in primetime except for Baywatch and that such a small part no one recalls her from it. Kelly was not used to getting street recognition, all the others were. In fact John said he was used to people calling him "Peterman" and now he is being recognized by his own name instead.

I think that the reason she got the lowest score the first week is that although Evander was definitely the worst dancer, he was also a big draw. He got sports bars tuning into DWTS and he was a boxer so the judges cut him some slack the first week. They were perfectly ready and willing for Kelly to get voted off the first week. John, Joey and Rachel tied for first place, Trista and Evander tied at 3rd place.

Judges Ranking
John..........6
Rachel.......5
Joey..........4
Trista........3
Evander ....2
Kelly..........1

Kelly wasn't even in the bottom two once the audience ranks were added. To accomplish that she had to be a 5 or 6 with the audience. Evander also stayed out of the bottom two, and he needed either a 4, 5, or 6 to do that.

Rachel had to have recieved the fewest votes to drop to the bottom two. If the audience had had it's way Rachel would have gone home first, not Trista.

If ABC had planned in advance to build an underdog story around her they would not have risked losing her the first week. She had to take first or second place with the audience to stay in the game. The underdog story developed because she survived the first week. ABC could not have planned that unless we are also saying that they rigged the public votes as well. Rachel was clearly so unpopular that if they were rigging the show they would have sent her home first.

DWTS chose a mixed bag of characters to appeal to a broad audience and tried to match them to equally typecast pros. I am sure they were looking for people they thought would be interesting characters. They cherry-picked rehearsal footage to create backstories and Kelly as underdog was obvious.

Remember in the first show they had a clip of each pro bragging shamelessly. Women worship Jon, Alec is the best looking man on the dance floor, Charlotte describing herself as the Grace Kelly of ballroom. Edyta saying she was like a sexy animal and Louis the best spinner etc. I would bet money that those were taped when they were being interviewed for the show and were asked leading questions. For example, "what are your strengths on the dancefloor" or "how do people/women percieve you?" which, in an interview for a job, would lead you to flatter yourself.

I think the backstories just developed naturally in the sense that once they saw which way the wind was blowing, they selected clips to emphasize a particular aspect. For example, it is quite possible that Joey made just as many funny remarks as John, but they just didn't show that footage. It's quite possible that John complained more but they didn't use those clips.

I think John has done himself harm by complaining publically however indirectly he is doing it. I don't think it's going to harm Kelly's popularity at all. If anything it is upping her profile even more. Obviously, there are viewers who don't like her, but there were a lot who did, and crossing demographics. Men of all ages found her "hot". That can backfire with the female viewing audience, but in this case Kelly seems as popular if not more so with women. I do have a "girl crush" on her to some extent. The media denigrating her win is just going to make those of us who like her all the more loyal. Her's is a Cinderella story and I don't care to be told she didn't deserve to get the prince and that I voted wrong therefore "cheated" John out of his win. It was never "his" win in the first place. As Carrie said, "the winner won".

Apparently Kelly has already been offered a talk show and a part in a primetime show but hasn't accepted anything yet.

I seriously doubt that. Why in the world would ABC invest that kind of time and money into a summer series about which they were so doubtful that they only opted to order six episodes?

I'm not sure what made her the "underdog from the first show other than her getting ranked lowest and raked over the coals by the judges. Not something ABC could have forseen, so it would have been hard for them to plan the "fiesty underdog" story for her. In fact, I remember it being Rachel for whom they made sure the audience was aware of her suffering from a stomach virus. No one mentioned Kelly's oral surgery that day, or the 15 stitches she had just recieved. I'd think they'd play on that if their plan, even before the show aired, was to make her the "fiesty underdog."

Isn't it just possible that she is fiesty, and was the underdog, and that's why we saw what we saw?

Another interesting quote from the "metromix" article linked above:



Nice.

Everyone who cared to knew that the winner was determined as of midnight Tuesday. Therefore, whomever tallied the votes would know as of then who won. Natural that they would report to the producers no?

Which is why the scoring system needs to be tweaked. If the winner was known before the final was even danced, then the whole final was useless, except to pull a bit more money out of the advertisers' pockets.

While I was annoyed that John & Charlotte didn't win, I think I've just about recovered. I preferred them for two reasons: I think John is funny, and I prefer the "standard" dances to "Latin" ones overall. Perhaps one further annoyance is that I thought that Kelly should have been eliminated the first week (regardless of the satisfaction of eliminating Trista) and, if I remember correctly, the second week as well.

As for the finale itself, I also felt that John far outdanced Kelly on the first dance, and that they were both equal for their freestyle. I would have given (using the Celebrity-Dance-Scoring-on-a-Curve system) John 3 9s on the quickstep (losing a point only for the temp dragging done by the singer), Kelly 3 8s on her samba (?) and then both of them 3 8s on the freestyle.

Even thought that meant Kelly still would have won.

Had it been based on dancing, there can be no doubt she would have been gone after the first week. Of course, it doesn't necessarily follow that had it been based 100% on dancing, John would have won (since the judges loved Rachel as well), but there can be no question that Kelly's fan base (or those who voted out of sympathy for her) saved her in the early going.

I disagree. The only thing determined was that whomever won the audience vote would get the hideous trophy. John could still have won the judge's votes which would have been an interesting end. Then we would be arguing about him not getting to take home the hideous trophy.

IMO the point to the entire show was simply to be cheesy fun. The trophy itself tells us that the show is very much tongue-in-cheek, not a serious competition. I would argue that for many the roses were the better prize. It was clear from day one that the audience vote would determine who won. The confetti floating down on them and the fireworks at the back of the stage when she was announced the winner were hilariously over the top.

I was still entertained by John and Kelly's performances and curious to hear the judges scoring even though I knew the audience would be the tie breaker therefore determine the win.

I haven't seen him making a "big tiff" about this. The viewers have (and again, our tiff is not against Kelly but the perceived manipulation by ABC -- obviously a perception that is not shared by all).

The only comments I've seen from JOH that some people seem to find "ungracious" are those he made during the LKL interview or to the Inside TV mag (which, BTW, I still haven't seen the actual interview, just repeats of the NYPost piece that used the word "agenda" without context). I could be wrong, but it seems that those two are the only specific things people are pointing to. But the thing is, those had to have been given within the first few days after the competition, when feelings were probably still pretty close to the surface. For example, the LKL interview couldn't have been live, because it aired on Wednesday, but several sports reporters in the Lake Tahoe area saw JOH and his wife there on Wednesday (the day the LKL interview aired), hitting tee shots at the driving range.

So, my only point is that it's not like he's been talking it up for days on end (if you think he's talked it up at all).

I think Evander should have been the first to go, not Kelly. When I judge the dancing, I am deciding which has succeeded in entertaining me. Who do I most want to see dance again? To me that is the best dancer because this is not dancesport, it's performance dance. If John were not as expressive as he is I bet he wouldn't be as "popular". Chemistry wouldn't matter if it were all about technique and the audience wouldn't be voting.

The first two eliminations Kelly got my vote because I felt Evander should have been the first to go. The first week I assumed that Evander would be the one to go home if Kelly didn't. That it was Trista was a surprise, but I still think I would have voted for Kelly because I did prefer her waltz. I continued voting for Kelly because each week I found myself most looking forward to her dances and wondering what they would be like.

To say that she shouldn't have made it far enough to improve therefore should not have won makes no sense. Kelly's dancing was better than Evander's therefore my voting for her was based on her dancing. I felt I was righting the judge's wrong. Second week, Evander was still there, and I thought Kelly was the only one that portrayed the mood of the rumba, and I didn't enjoy Rachel at all. She was already beginning to bore me.

If it had been up to me, Evander would have gone home first and Rachel second because I enjoyed Kelly's performances better. The best dancer is the one that pulls me in the most, engages my full attention. For me that was Kelly.

We can't be sure who won the audience vote, because as far as I know ABC never released those figures. It's reasonable that a soap actress would have had the largest voting fan base, followed by the former boy-band member, but we can't be sure and we never will be. Given the peculiarities of the judges' voting on the last show (although, as we now know, it didn't make any difference), I'm not inclined to take anything ABC says now at face value.

It was a bogus competition and the producers' and network's blatant contempt for the audience leaves a sour taste. It's a shame, because the show was fun to watch. As O'Hurley said, the voting system really needs to be tweaked -- or rather, completely revamped.

I don't see how you can possibily say something like this with zero evidence to back it up. I didn't see any contempt. Perhaps you don't agree that Kelly should have won, but that doesn't mean there is anything suspicious about the results.

When you've got a two-part scoring system in place, with both parts being presented as being of equal weight, then if the winner is known before the second set of scores is known, something's wrong with the system. And what's wrong is that there weren't two parts, there were three (judges, audience and tie-breaker) and two of them were exactly the same. Since the system made ties virtually inevitable, the audience vote wasn't half of the score, it was two thirds of the score.


Yes, we can know who won the audience vote. Kelly did. The judges scores were irrelevant mathematically. Whoever won the audience won the competion. Here's the breakdown:

John wins judges and audience: 2 pts + 2 pts. = 4 pts.
Kelly loses judges and audience: 1 pt + 1 pt. = 2pts.
John wins

John loses judges and wins audience: 1 pt + 2 pts. =3 pts
Kelly wins judges and loses audience: 2 pts + 1 pt. = 3 pts
Tie, audience vote as tie-breaker, John wins

John wins judges and loses audience: 2 pts + 1 pt. = 3 pts.
Kely loses judges and wins audience: 1 pt + 2 pts =3 pts.
Tie, audience vote as tie-breaker, Kelly wins.

Kelly wins judges and audience: 2 pts + 2 pts. = 4 pts
John loses judges and audience: 1 pt + 1 pt =2 pts.
Kelly wins.

You can see by that, that the judges' votes are irrelevant. The person who takes the audience takes the prize either straight-away or by the tie-breaker. That's why I think that (at least) the tie-breaker needs to be tweaked. The judges serve no actual purpose in the scoring

Something to lighthen up the board, a report from Kelly's fan day Q&A are in and Alec did show up! Click on for the juicy details :)

For K/A fangirls:

Bwahahahahahahhh! I hope someone got a pic of that! ETA Oh wait, here's one. Eeeeep!

For everyone:

I would pre-order mine in a heartbeat. They should really release the 1st season and just pack it with outtakes now we know they filmed every rehearsal!

And Kelly's freakin' hilarious:

Hee! I remember in Alec's Q&A he said that it was when she took of the helmet that he ended up gingerly dropping her on her head -- probably the footage we saw :)

If you mean on the last night in terms of who wins the tacky trophy, you are right. That was a really unimportant part of the show for me. I found the judge's scoring interesting in and of itself. I felt winning the "judge's votes" carried with it a sense of having "won". Yes, either way Kelly would still have the trophy, but winning both the judge's votes and the audience votes was a much bigger win than had she won only the audience vote. So in that sense the judge's votes were not irrelevant to me. I fully enjoyed the final show even knowing that I would not get to vote on the dances. I watched because I like watching dancing, not because of the voting. I liked that win or lose I got to see Kelly do the maximum number of dances.

Well, I really enjoyed the show and all of the dancers (okay, not Trista). I really wish it wasn't an elimination show and I could have watched them all summer, but then the point of it being a competition would be dumb huh........

I think they should switch the tiebreaker to be the previous week's score (combined judges+audience vote). If two contestants are still even, go back a week at a time until one did better than the other. If you make it back through the whole competition and they're still perfectly even (unlikely, but possible), then go back to using the audience votes as a tiebreaker. That way, you reward contestants who are consistently good (or consistently fan favourites) and the judges' scores on the final episode aren't completely irrelevant.

I think this was supposed to be an "easy breezy" fun summer show and therefore had a "easy breezy" scoring system, not something resembling the NFL wildcard rules for the playoffs. If you want good ratings, you give the public what it wants, and according to the audience vote, the public wanted Kelly to walk off with the disco ball on a stick. What's the big deal? As Miss Alli said, look at the title of the show - it wasn't meant to be anything more than it was.

Thanks for the Alec info! I was squeeing my little fangurl heart out.

I can say the competition was bogus because the results were known in advance. That fits the definition of bogus, in spite of all the drumrolls and flashing lights as we await the winner. As a matter of fact, there's a post about 100 pages back in this thread demonstrating mathematically that Monaco will win, given the scoring system and some basic assumptions about the way the audience vote was going.

Again, as far as I know ABC never gave a running tally of the audience votes. We have to deduce it from who ABC said were the two couples duking it out to avoid elimination.

I agree with John, or at least the inferences that can be made by some of his comments. He and Charlotte were robbed. Kelly is a gymnast, and there is nothing wrong with that, but for, overall, consistently good Ballroom dancing, John and Charlotte should have won. I was surprised at the wierdo way that the judges votes did not appear to count in the end. Their comments though might have affected voters attitudes. That said, he should be happy that he doesn't have to suffer that disco ball on a stick in his house.
I liked him before this, didn't know Kelly at all, and I like them both now, I just think he should have won.
And, I can't believe we are still discussing this....

I totally agree. And I think Kelly/Alec's freestyle would have garnered more votes than John/Charlotte's. Now, maybe John is upset b/c perhaps his fans would have been mobilized by Kelly's 10s to vote en masse for him, and giving him the win.


And it made good TV! They really brought out the personalities of the stars and their pro partners, I thought, in a way I hadn't expected. I didn't know Kelly before the show, but I had all these "ugh, soap opera star" notions that I wouldn't like her. But she came off very likeable and down-to-earth and endearingly snarky. I wouldn't have expected to have seen Alec actually crack a smile and seem to enjoy himself, but it was cute when he did. I liked how well-matched John and Charlotte were. Joey Mac's fun personality came through, and I thought Ashly's admitting her girlhood (and probably lingering) adoration of him was fun. I didn't get to see much of Trista/Luis, Evander/Edyta, but I'm sure had they been on, we would have gotten to see some "character development" of them as well.


I think the couple that deserved to go home went home, though I think Evander was really the one who should have been gone. Evander was held to a much lower standard, I think, than any of the other dancers. His footwork and posture were pretty subpar (and hey, he was a beginner, so he did well for that). I think part of dancing is being able to work well with your partner, and Trista had this distanced, brittle, "ew, don't touch" thing going on that soured her dancing. Perhaps she had the steps and posture better, but she and Luis looked very uncomfortable together. I didn't see a couple.


As I am now sadly (just recently, mind you!) out of the coveted 18-25 year old demographic, I must say that one cannot underplay my generation's (which has been voting in AI for years) love for Joey Mac. I wasn't even a NKTOB fan in elementary school (no t-shirts, lunchboxes, pillowcases), but I can still name all five of them. And probably their favorite colors. And I still wanted Joey's solo albums and acting career to do well. I can't explain it. So I think Joey had the best "built-in" fanbase.


I had wished that too!

A little recap of Kelly and Alec's appearance on Regis And Kelly.

They interviewed Kelly on her own in the first segment. Usual stuff about General Hospital and Port Charles. Regis asked what kind of celebration she had after the show. She said that GH gave her a lunch and Regis was amazed that all she got was a lunch and not like a car or a trip. Kelly Ripa agreed that you don't get much on soaps and Kelly Monaco was lucky to get more than a bagel to be split between 30 people.

Talked about the show. Nothing that hasn't been heard before. How they were sure they were going to lose week to week and how that let them go all out in every dance. Regis asked about the ever popular wardrobe malfunction and if it was planned. Kelly remarked that no one would have thought to write something that good into the show.

Kelly Ripa said that someday when she finally goes to a plastic surgeon, she's taking a picture of Kelly Monaco and going: "just do all of that."

Went to break and then Kelly and Alec performed a modified version of their freestyle. Kelly had a long blue dress on, very similar to the first dress she wore on the show for the freestyle that Alec rips off. They did a lift at the end and I guess there was some shifting in the dress because Kelly turned away from the cameras at the end. Kelly Ripa grabbed her and yelled "We have another wardrobe malfunction!" I don't think anything actually slipped out, just some unwanted movement around the low cut dress. :-)

Back from another break and they asked Alec a few questions about his dance studio. Regis actually asked for the name, which I'm sure Alec liked for a little publicity. Next was the moment for the fan girls. Kelly asked if they were dating. Before she let them answer she explained how she would watch every week and think: "They look nice together. I hope they aren't married to other people so they can marry each other." Kelly M. said that she wasn't married and Alec wasn't married but they weren't together. Regis asked Alec why and he said that you have a professional partnership.

Then there was a brief dance lesson that I care not to recap because Regis made the usual fool out himself.

Can't wait to see the tape -- my VCR had better have worked!

Thanks for the recap, Arroz.

Great recap. It was a cute segment except for Regis having to be the center of attention at all times.

Okay, now for the fangirl stuff...


No mention of "I have a boyfriend" or "Alec is engaged or has a girlfriend". They both seemed rather flustered at the question... Hmmm...

Alec looked rather yummy, but he was wearing loose jeans. They need to write a law that requires Alec to wear tight Latin pants for any TV appearances.

They so need to put this show on DVD with a blooper reel. Someone who had dinner with Kelly after her fan event said that Kelly wore a football helmet when they were practicing so Alec wouldn't drop her on her head. She also would curse like a sailor during rehearsal.

I really hope they make a DVD! A jam-packed with extras of the professionals. And Joey (see, just can't fight the brainwashing!).

As for cursing, I didn't catch what Kelly said to Tom immediately after winning, but she said "oh, are we still on?" and did the little "oops" hand-over-mouth gesture.


What a sweet way for Kelly Ripa to put what many people had been thinking!


Hee! They probably both realize they are hotter commodities with the perception that they are single (you know, so fangrrrls will sign up for lessons from him, thinking they'll fall in lurve and get married and all that). But it would have been nice for poor Edyta to get a mention -- did she not? I was glad to see she went with Alec and Kelly to the Hef party. Well, you know, glad that it looked as though everything were on the up and up.

Thanks for the recap arroz! Now I know it's worth getting up for!

You know how it is when you're trying to keep your hot secret love on the down low, hee.

I was watching the rehearsal stuff (I know again!) and I was gonna say, I'm surprised that Kelly actually did get as good as she did considering everytime she would mess up she got to drape herself all over Alec! The woman is constantly fighting against operant conditioning y'all! I think she deserves more credit than you'd think :)


Truer words have not been spoken!

Btw, I'm still hoping for a pic of Kelly actually rubbing Alec's chest, that would really crack me up. I loved how she just grabbed his mic and sunglasses, and ripped his shirt open for the benefit of womanhood, heheh. Poor Alec :)

One of the reasons this first season will be more memorable than ensuing years, is that this time the audience got the real deal, as to the stars & pros. Being critiqued one on one is tough, in front of millions of viewers is quite frightening. The next season is bound to be more "contrived". The contestants will have an idea how harshly they can be ripped into by the judges. So, they'll be more prepared with their reactions. They'll know which type of behaviors won't play well w/the audience, and what will appeal to the public. I.e., Petulant, can't separate personal feelings from professional facade of dancing & similar childish conduct; everyone will be spunky, feisty, & have won't give up attitudes.

Given their budget for an orchestra & costumes, am hoping they'll improve the music. Personally, I'm hoping they utilize some instrumentals only. Ala figure skating, instrumentals allow them to interpret the music better. They can dance to the music, whereas with vocals, they end up dancing to the words. I'd love for the show to feature some flamenco guitarists & sax players.

Wow, Alec and Kelly are both really tan. It's like they slept through the nineties and haven't heard that SPF is a good thing.

I like that they genuinely seem to enjoy each other, and that she's trying to give his career a boost by bringing him along to her press events. She probably realizes more people will crowd to see her + Alec than see just her, as the show was such a hit. But it also seems very gracious of her, like a sign of appreciation for his efforts as teacher and partner -- he helped her learn to dance and with him ended up show favorites, and in return, she's helping him get more publicity for his school and dancing career.

Perhaps rather than even reforming the voting procedures or even the prominence of the audience vote, I would come up with some other system than the simple ranking method because, let's say:

George Washington and Charlotte score 10+10+10=30
Dinah Shore and Alec score 0+1+1=2
Tiny Tim and Edyta score 0+0+1=1
Paul Lynde and Louis score 0+0+0=0

But, the audience vote is in reverse (Paul, Tiny, Dinah and then George). Who goes home? George! (George 4 + 1 = 5; Dinah 3 + 2 = 5; Tiny 2 + 3 = 5; and, Paul 1 + 4 = 5.) The exact same thing would happen even if the scores were 30, 29, 28 and 27.

Some way to convert judges scores to something roughly equivalent to audience voting needs to be developed to ensures that a situation where one couple scores 30 and another scores 29 is not treated the same as when couple scores 30 and the other scores 0.

Oh man, Paul Lynde dancing with Louis. I know you are just using names for your example, but the image it conjured in my mind -- utterly hilarious.



I'm sure it's fake. All the competitors I know are experts at fake tanning...spray-on, airbrushed, painted-on, self-tanned, you name it, we've tried it.

Eeeeeeep! I just finished watching Regis and Kelly. They were all so cute dancing. I think Kelly Rippa was really appreciating Alec, hee. She's was really sweet to both of them. Not to mention asking the question the world actually wants to know! Eat that Larry King :)

I loved how when Regis asked how they got paired up, he tells Kelly something like "Well, you lucked out, look at him" and Kelly's all giggling "Yeah, I got really lucky!"

I know, I think her webmaster even designed Alec's dance school website. They seem to have become real good friends and supportive of each other. Thank you Kelly for bringing us more Alec, mwah!

He did, in fact one person on Kelly's DWTS website got uppity about no updates and he gave her the smackdown that he's been busy with Alec's site.

I forgot about the "I'm so lucky" part. Squeeeee!!!

Live! was cute. Kelly Ripa said she wanted to learn lap dancing, and Alec said, "maybe off-camera." Wow -- he dances! he smiles! he makes jokes!

Yes, but none of the he said/she said/he meant/she meant's are factual, they're all open to interpretation and subjectivity.

If I don't like someone, I'm more inclined to read a transcript of their written words with inflection's where I negatively assume they would be, etc. Whereas if I like someone, I'm going to be more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt & assume that things were said with humor, grace, etc.

I like John, so I'm prejudiced to do the above! I admit it. Whereas for some reason (or reasons), I've disliked Kelly since Day One & tend to cast everything she does and says in a more negative light.

ETA: I'll say this for Kelly, I like her more than I like Kelly Ripa. Though that's not really saying much. Snerk.

I have enjoyed watching this show from the first time I saw an advertisement before it aired. I liked watching the stars dancing every week but I really watched to see the professional dancers. I am glad that I watched this show and learned a lot about ballroom dancing.

Well, I've been a very quiet lurker who loves reading the stuff you guys talk about on this here thread. I religiously watched the show and thought it was such a great summer ditty to get addicted to. Also, I loved the dances and wished I could dance as well as they did. I thought that if Kelly the Tromper That Could (and I, though petite at 5"2, tend to tromp around, also) and Evander the Lead-footed Boxer could learn those moves, then, maybe, I could, too! Sadly, I must admit that I can't really follow the rhythm of dance-y songs. I prefer to think that I dance to my own beat.

All the 'grassy knoll theories', the posts! of! outrage!, the defenders-of-Peterman, as well as, the-supporters-of-Kelly, and, of course, the HMS Suxy Twins discussions make for such awesome reading when I'm taking my 'coffee breaks' at work. 167 pages and counting... Keep it up, guys!

Also, mind if I jump aboard the Kelly/Alec ship? Heehee... I can't help but think like a silly, little fangirl when I see them together. Caught them on R&K (and was late for work but who cares?!) and they just looked so hot together! I loved that Kelly asked K/A about them looking so good together that she thought they should marry each other. Then, Kelly kinda stutters before she answers that they're not married to anybody else but are not together. I giggled myself silly over that.

Is it just me or does K/A tend do that almost kissing thing and lean their faces about two inches apart? After their dance in R&K, they ended that way and seemed to be chatting a little or something until Kelly and Regis stepped in frame. They do that lean thing a lot, too, in DwtS. Also, was it just me or did Alec look like he wanted to give Kelly a kiss after their segment and the hosts were kissing/hugging K/A to say goodbye? He went to her side at the end and kinda leaned down but Kelly was looking elsewhere... Yes, I'm 12, and think that they are so going to marry each other in the future! Hee.