Friend, where do you live? Do you have cable? TBS airs Seinfeld at least four times daily (inlcuding prime time) and I think other cable networks have rights to it as well.

Kelly made an interesting point during Larry King. At the most, General Hospital draws 3 million viewers a day. The finale of DWtS draw almost 22 million. People other than General Hospital fans were voting for Kelly and tuning in to see who won.

And I agree with John hogging the interview and hated his smugness at the end about a potential Broadway show. It's hard for me to imagine producers putting up the millions required to stage a Broadway musical if the main attraction is John doing his dancing J. Peterman schtick every night.

Seems like at this point, people are going to see what they want to see in John: some (like me) see him as funny, charming, intelligent and self-deprecating. Others (like barkley) see him as a ham, smarmy, know-it-all and immodest. Just a different take on the same traits. Funny that.

However, I don't think he should be blamed for having been seated in the middle by the LK peeps and for LK directing questions to him. Talk show hosts *want* people with personality -- people who will liven it up and make interesting TV, people who will keep the average joe who's never watched DWTS from changing the channel. That's why lesser known stars have to try out for Leno or Letterman. It's what makes for interesting TV. Rightly or wrongly, the LKL producers obviously thought John would play that role better than the others. After all, he's been around Hollywood for 25+ years now, working steadily. He knows how the game is played. With these type of group talk show things, the assistant producers meet with the guests beforehand and tell them how it's going to work, the seating arrangements and who's to talk, etc. It's all very orchestrated (*cough* just like so-called reality shows *cough*)

As for built-in fanbase -- the fact is that for every Kelly fan I've seen/spoken to, there seem to be 5 who think Peterman should have won. Based on the evidence, then, it's logical to conclude that JOH should have won the viewer voting, *if* everyone had voted and voted only once. That they didn't only speaks to the fanaticism of Kelly's (and Alec's) fans compared to John's. Note, I'm not using the word "fanaticism" in a negative sense here. Only as the source of the word "fan" -- people who would go out of their way to support their favorite. So, unless you want to admit that the results were fixed, then the fact that K/A won supports the claim that she had more "fans." Hell, the fact that she even survived the first 2-3 weeks proves that she had more "fans" than the other dancers! Without knowing how many people actually voted, it's impossible to say whether those fans came from GH or whether she (or Alec) won them during the competition. (For example, if 3,000,000 people voted, then it's still possible that her votes came predominantly from GH fans.)

But even if they were won during the competition, the ABC producers unquestionably edited the show to create sympathy for her as the underdog. We now know that the women *did* have the option of covering up with their costumes. So, it would seem that Kelly's poor little me "I didn't even see the costume until I got to the studio" line, while perhaps technically true, was a bit disingenuous. Just as her poor little me "I didn't even know what a foxtrot was before Saturday" schtick. Perhaps left unsaid is that that was because she was learning the paso doble Thursday-Friday? Of course, I have no way of knowing that, but dude, everyone had 2 dances to learn. It only stands to reason that they would spend a few days on each. The editors clearly wanted to make it look like she didn't have as much time to prepare as the others.

I think Joey also mentioned that he has an album coming out. Larry King cut him off before he could give any more details.

Of the four or five of us who formed my little viewing party, only one had any idea who Kelly Monaco is, and that was from Port Charles. Another couple knew who Peterman was. So the idea that the only people watching DWTS are rabid, crazed GH fans is just stupid and sour grapes. I would have watched this show regardless of who the stars were. The star of the show is the dancing, and I don't know that the resume of the celebrities played that much into it. I think Joey Mac and Evander were the initial big draws.

I didn't really care to vote much, but when I did, I voted for Kelly and Alec, b/c they made the show more interesting with their sultry dancing, and the fun, junior high "are they or aren't they" game my friends and I played. Plus, K/A looked like a couple, like they were engaged with each other while dancing (largely b/c Kelly was often straddling him, haha). They looked at each other with passion and love or whatever the dance called for. When John danced, Charlotte was doing her part of looking at her partner, and he was hamming it up for the camera and the audience (like with that obnoxious Paso).


This whole competition was not about a level playing field, and if John wanted some sort of rational, scientific voting system, he should have passed. The audience vote is based upon the capricious preferences of the viewers, and it often is a popularity contest. If one couple compels people to call iln 5 times on 3 phones, then good for that couple. Deal with it, John. You don't hear Evander, who never could have actually won, complaining that his competition was more limber persons and had 100 lbs left to heft around. Rachel didn't complain that her partner was practically shorter than she was in heels. Joey didn't complain his partner had much less experience than the other pros. Luis didn't complain that Trista's being a prig led to him having much less exposure than the other pros. All the guys could have complained that the women had an advantage b/c Alec, Luis, and Jonathan could lead them and lift them.

It's just a fun little show, a great source of exposure for these has-beens and mid-level celebs. It is unfortunate that John is taking the loss with increasingly less and less grace.


And the producers unquestionably edited the show to create John and Charlotte as the elegant couple, the "one-to-beat," the champs. The judges kept praising them, giving them overly high scores (in my opinion -- the freestyle score basically said "there's no way K/A are going to be better"). John and Charlotte got the actual Paso song to dance the Paso Doble to. They got Patrick Swayze to help them! Don't underestimate the power of Patrick "Nobody Puts Baby in a Corner" Swayze, hehe.


I have to give Kelly credit for being the only star on the show who had a fulltime day job. She was having to do all the dancing before/during/after learning her lines and filmingn and fulfilling her other work commitments. So in that respect, I do have more sympathy for her. John had nothing else to do than practice with Charlotte as much as he wanted, and doing so when he was fresh.

Go read the LKL transcript -- at no point does JOH complain! His only slightly negative comment is that the voting should be "tweaked" so that the voters are voting on that week's dances, and not the prior week's -- a comment that I've seen almost every poster here echo at some point or another. How is that complaining? That "tweak" would help/hurt all couples equally. He was not suggesting at all that the voting system was rigged or favored Kelly. Please don't attribute negative motivations to someone based on what you read on a message board or what you think you saw on TV when perhaps your attention was focused elsewhere (*g*).

Just as you shouldn't assume that Kelly was the only one "working" during this period. I don't know of anyone who can simply put the rest of their lives on hold for 2 months. I'm sure Joey, John, Rachel, etc. had plenty of other things to deal with as well. Heck, I'm sure Alec, Charlotte, Ashley, etc had their own business to attend to as well. Yes, I give Kelly credit for putting in her hours on top of everything else she had to do, but I give all of the others the same credit as well. We simply weren't *shown* what else they had going on in their lives.

I watched LKL. I was referring to his remark about how his fanbase was just his nieces and nephews, a direct dig at Kelly's "vast-GH-conspiracy" fanbase. It was not based on any message board. I am probably being overly sensitive to what he says, but when someone says "This show will get tweaked out, and it'll be a great show again," it leads me to interpret it that it's not a great show b/c he didn't win, and once they tweak it to fix it, it'll be great again. Whatever, John.

I don't. I said Kelly was the only one of the stars juggling a fulltime day job with learning the dances. I'm not aware of any similar commitments that John, Trista, Joey, Rachel, and Evander had. I didn't say they didn't have other commitments (such as family and children) and business to take care of.

Sorry, I don't see it that way (as a dig, that is). To me, it was self-deprecating as usual:

I have no real idea how much the soap fan base helped KM, but I agree with most people that it's probably overblown, except maybe for the internet voting. Many hard-core soap fans are already members of ABC.com, which you apparently had to be in order to vote online for DWTS.

However, judging from GH message boards (including the one on TWOP), Sam McCall is loathed by a big chunk of GH fans. Kelly the actress is not so loathed, but many still dislike her - or at least they did before DWTS.

I think the beautiful half-dressed young woman versus middle aged man factor was a bigger booster for Kelly. That and the fact that she was the underdog who nearly cried the first week.

Regarding O'Hurley on Larry King, I didn't find him that obnoxious, though it's clear he DOES blame the soap fans for his loss. Kelly tried to respond graciously, but her response was a bit convuluded (a yes and no kind of thing).

I wonder if the rumors are true and that other potential "stars" don't want another soap star bringing their fan base to the competition, so Kelly was trying to downplay it for fear of ruining the chances of another daytimer to get on the show.

Sorry, but you're automatically giving more weight to a "day job" than other commitments that I don't think is appropriate. We have no idea what those other commitments entailed. Even setting aside personal commitments, just John's business/charity activities alone could have involved travel and/or demanded a lot of his time/attention during the process. Joey says he has an album coming out. We don't know what his recording schedule (which was probably set long before DWTS came into the picture). On the flip side, we don't know how much accomodation ABC gave Kelly in her GH filming schedule. Perhaps none, perhaps a lot. I know it's possible, if you know ahead of time, to bring in an actor and shoot their scenes for the entire week in a couple of days. My point is: We. Don't. Know. We just know what ABC chose to show us.

We've got no evidence whatsoever that the others did not have 'fulltime' commitments to other projects while filming the show. Just because they weren't shown working on other jobs during the show doesn't mean that Evander, John, Rachel, Joey and even Trista did not have a full day of business commitments while working on the show. Kelly got shown because she 'invited' Alec to work with her on the GH set, which was conveniently available for filming probably because ABC wanted the cross promotion. There is no way for any of us to know what the schedule of each of the other participants was on the show, each of them could have spent just as much time at rehearsals, recording studios, auditions, photo shoots and personal appearances as Kelly did at GH during filming but because they either couldn't bring along a partner and film crew, or the show didn't want to use that angle since it did nothing to promote ABC, we didn't see it.

I was not being serious when I said John had nothing to do but show up and practice -- obviously, he has other things going on. Obviously all of the stars and pros had other things going on. Per the ABC bios on the DWTS site, Kelly appears to be the only one who in the Career section lists being currently involved in filming a daily program. I will cut her some slack for saying how hard it is to learn two dances given that fact.

As to what John said on LKL and whether or not it was rude, I'd just say there's a time and a place. I agree, the show needs fixing. And if John has suggestions to the brass at ABC, cool. But I don't know that saying so was the politic thing to do in the post-show interview circuit, especially when the winners are there feeling potentially insulted. It didn't seem terribly gracious or in keeping with good sportsmanship. That may not have been how it was intended, but that's how it is coming off to some of us.

And to reiterate, I'm not a GH watcher, and I had no idea who either John or Kelly was before DWTS. I had a vague notion of the Peterman character, but wouldn't have recognized him. I would have been happy had John won, b/c they did a great job as well. I preferred Kelly/Alec, but as long as they were in the finals, I was cool. I'm getting a bit soured by John in the post-show period, however.

It was pointed out on one of the first pages of this thread, that the Aussie version had the exact same scoring system as the US version. They also used last week's audience with this week's judges scores. So, it wasn't like they just came up with that idea out of thin air for the US version because of the time zone problem.

I did like everyone giving Evander his due last night.

Extra note: Charlotte is very involved with Alec's new dance studio. It's her voice on the telephone menu and every pro on DWTS is listed on the website.

More tidbits to comment upon after reading the online transcript.



They obviously did not show the interview in its entireity because on-air Kelly never spoke about the chemistry (or lack thereof) between her and Alec. With all us 'shippers around, that's something I wish they had kept in the editing.



I definitely have to challenge John's belief that he was the farthest behind at the start of the competition. By the looks of it Evander sure had a great deal of work to do especially considering his size. And Kelly said she'd never taken dance before so she obviously had a lot to overcome as well. To me, John was trying to gain more sympathy for himself here, and I don't think it's warranted in this regard.

Since the head of ABC Daytime is the person Kelly says persuaded her to do DWTS, I'll guess she wasn't breaking her back trying to juggle two things - ABC Daytime helped make it happen for her.

This is a competition - not - Kelly gets extra points for two jobs, and this other person who became a better dancer gets a point handicap because they had more time to learn. If Kelly gets points for working two jobs and having hearing issues, can't John get points for being middle-aged and fat when HE began? AND having a wife at home while Kelly's unmarried?

Kelly should have improved as a dancer MORE over the course of six weeks, considering how athletic she is. If she's not musical, she can definitely count out beats for her footwork. She ended up grafting dance onto what she can already do well - acrobatics.

It's a show; ABC tweaks the narrative and the editing. It's part of Kelly's underdog theme that she's not only got hearing issues, is clumsy, no natural ability, but also works at TWO jobs, both produced by ABC. ABC set up that visit by Alec to the studios - they had to let the DWTS crew in to film that rehearsal, they had to make the space available, and IMO it was part of the Kelly sympathy story.

Kelly's own narrative about herself was disingenous: "I've never done a split" "I can't get in second position" "I've never taken ballet" --- when we see that even if she's never DONE a split, she already had the flexibility to do one - in heels. She could rotate her shoulders and arms way back (the ballet teacher sequence) - much further than most civilians. She could do a backbend before she ever met Alec.

She was poor mouthing her own advantages just as much as John.

I believe John that he was terrible at the beginning.

He couldn't dance - was a beached whale 20 lbs. heavier than he was at the end - but when he started to learn he had an aptitude.

I was reading some dance boards from prior to the first episode, and the "dance grapevine" said "Charlotte's celebrity" had a breakthrough, realizing if he actually DID learn to lead, it all went better. Most men follow the Evander model - bop around while the pro female hoofs up a storm. J O'H realized by learning to lead, the dances would work better, they could do more.

He had aptitude. That doesn't mean he knew more about dance when he started.

He's middle-aged, he was overweight, he wasn't limber, he had no dance vocabulary, and he did great AND was talented.

The less talented person gets more points? He also had a good attitude while learning - he actually learned to dance. He didn't take what he could already do (Kelly's gymnastics) and fit a dance around it.

If the kind of background or experience a person has should count as an advantage, Kelly had an enormous advantage being a tiny, petite woman with extreme natural flexibility and a gymnastics background. Set it to music with a big strong male partner and she's way ahead of many others, like Rachel, who was practically taller then her partner while in heels.

I agree with you that Kelly's having a day job should not have any bearing on the scoring. My comment on Kelly's job was directed at a post critical of her complaint that she was stressed about learning two dances.

I don't watch GH, so I don't know whether Kelly's character was written so she has had a light load recently or not.

I totally agree. Poor Evander! The pro men are going to be able to do flashier things with their partners (unless their partner is taller than they are -- Poor Rachel!). And the audience vote is going to come down to a mish-mash of considerations: popularity (appeal, fame, personality, etc.) of the star, popularity of the professional, ability, improvement, backstory, showiness of the choreography, the song choice, et al. There's no way to equal out those things.

Ditto!

Kelly and Alec's chosing to stick with latin dances b/c those are what they are better at was a smart move, just as John and Charlotte stuck with the standard dances as much as possible. John didn't try to out-Alec Alec, and Kelly didn't try to out-Charlotte Charlotte, which was wise. And I think it made for an entertaining finals, having both spectrums of ballroom dancing showcased.

Oh, please. It's hardly a "plea for sympathy" unless you are already predisposed to criticizing him. It's a statement of fact. Just as Kelly's mentioning her blown eardrums was a statement of fact.

As Nyree suggested, it's not because John made it look easy on Wednesday night that he didn't have to struggle/work like hell to get there. It's *supposed* to look easy! And yes, he turned out to have a natural aptitude and a great attitude. But unlike the others, he first had to get into shape before he could even hope to learn to dance! Even Evander started out in shape.

I guess we each really do choose to see whatever we're looking for, be it positive or negative.

I wasn't critical of the comment so much as I was trying to point out that ABC judiciously chose to show that clip in a way that was taken out of context, to generate sympathy for her. And, as we now know that Alec & Kelly *did* in fact ask for the skimpy costumes, her earlier "discomfort" about them is questionable -- but again, I don't know how much of the "discomfort" was a put-on or how much was the product of editing.

We simply shouldn't take what we see on screen or in print at face value because the entertainment industry is in the business of creating illusions.

Except John is not a "pro" man - he's an amateur and he learned to lead. It made their dances stronger.

Kelly didn't "learn to dance" as much as she incorporated her limber athleticism into a gymnastics routine set to music, and each week more tricks and stunts were added (the backwalk down the stairs was a stunt, not dancing) -- but the actual dancing did not develop.

I don't think Evander's size has anything to do with his inability to dance. Edyta is not tiny for a pro woman, not a waif, and she danced up a storm.

I'm just leery of this "poor kelly" stuff. She is the plucky underdog on GH - a mob moll and so forth, but her specialty is the chin up stoic response to rejection or insult - complete with watery eyes.

A person can overwork the pitiful me routine too. She kept describing how unsuited she was for the competition all the while we could SEE she was far more athletic and coordinated than she admitted -- in the pool, with the ballet teacher, getting lifted -- and she never admitted being athletic and limber were advantages. You'd think she was a stiff jointed couch potato who could barely bend her knees, and then Alec "taught her flexibility" in five weeks. She was already, obviously, extremely flexible, which was great, because most of her dance tricks were built on that, and because of the Alec/Kelly height difference, she could go airborne where Rachel/Jonathan could not.

ETA - annlaw78 upthread, I was saying doing a backwalk down a staircase is technically easier for somebody who is limber - much easier than dancing well with a partner.

If we're not limber, yes, we'll break a wrist. But if we have flexibility, and, when we start, we don't know any tricks that use our flexibility, AND we don't know how to dance, we'll learn the tricks much faster and much easier, because dance is much more difficult, requires more physical finesse and timing.

The backwalk had nothing to do with dancing.

I'm still confused about the costume issue, b/c if Alec hated his superhero elf costume so much, it seems like he didn't have much control to say "ew, no."


Without digressing, larger/taller people tend to be not as quick and light on their feet, generally speaking. Joey should be able to be lighter on his feet than 250-lb Evander. Comparing him to Edyta, who is 5'6" and very lean is not really a fair comparison.

I'm not sure how much of a "day job" Kelly's part on GH has been. Few soap stars have to be on the set all day--or even most days.

The biggest advantage for a dance couple could be that they live in the same city (i.e. John and Charlotte). That makes it so much easier to schedule those long practices (7hrs/7days a week accd to John).

Beyond that, if you have "stars" competing and the audience vote is a key factor, everyone (stars included) needs to realize that it will always be more of a popularity contest than a dance contest. Most of the voters will judge it as "I don't know much about dance, but I know what I like."

And what the voters like best could be the best dancers OR...the hot young woman they loved on GH, the lumbering ex-boxer making a great effort, the older sitcom star who dances elegantly, the sexy supermodel....or, AI fashion, whoever the judges tell them is the best on any given week.

All these "stars" will start DwtS with some sort of fan base anyway (as well as with vastly different dance backgrounds). It's not a level playing field from the very beginning and becomes more and more of a popularity contest as time goes on.

Should the publics' votes be cast only based on "who's the best dancer this week?" Sure.

Will they be?

No.

From the LKL transcript, I think Alec (?) said they could request more/less "coverage," but perhaps not specifics like color, etc. unless they put in a specific request ahead of time? Clearly, Charlotte was able to get the red and the cape skirt worked into her paso doble routine, so it is possible.

I thought Kelly's actual dancing developed. Sure her and Alec could incorporate more "tricks" into the routines due to both of their athleticism but I also saw her dancing improve greatly. She seemed a lot less stiff and seemed to doing her steps to the music.

I was in a diner last night and they had the TV on to CNN but the sound was turned off so I didn't hear what anyone said but I did see the dance clips and I have to say Rachel was a lot more stiff than I remembered her being. It astounds me she got such high scores while she was on.

I really liked the first 3/4 of their freestyle routine, before the lifts. The samba(?) spins she did looked like dancing to me!

Didn't Charlotte say last night something to the effect of that if it were up to her, she would have been in black or white every week? (BTW, she looked gorgeous sporting her natural look.)

I felt Kelly was totally dependant on Alex to do her steps - she wasn't in a dance hold and doing her own stepping - she was kind of hauled around by him. When they were apart, she barely used her feet.

If taller, bigger people have a harder time learning to dance, then Kelly should have ended up the best dancer of all since she's limber, strong, young and tiny. She should have ended up better than she did, but I think she decided to ditch the dancing and build it around gymnastics, which is kind of similar to Joey ditching the dancing and building around showmanship.

The samba was K/A's best dance and the most dancy thing they did (jive was next from clips I saw). She had the most dance energy and did the most moving with her feet in that - her spins were nice, her rhythm and speed was good. First time they did it. Second time was less sharp.

the last thing they did wasn't really dancing, that's the main thing that bugs. And their paso kind of previewed that.

Joey and Ashley had a horrible paso song but ended up doing a damn good paso, IMO. Best choreographic effort by Ashley of her series.

As for popularity after this - I think a lot of people agree with John and his comments aren't going to hurt him. Only with those not fond of him to begin with.

Just as Kelly's underdog schtick - which is what it's becoming IMO - might wear on those who aren't big fans there. All depends on where you sit.

True that. But keep in mind that JOH is what, 6'2" or 6'3"? So, I guess he's an exception to the general rule. It also helped that he was paired with a taller partner. But after the first week, he learned to get up on his toes, which made him look lighter.

And yes, Kelly's dancing did improve. I could see that she was actually doing some dance steps by the end. Whether she was doing them *well* is a different matter that will always be subject to debate.

It's not a matter of not being able to learn to dance, it's a matter of it being physically more challenging to lift 250-lbs off the ground than 150. My first comment was an agreement with your post that John, having more weight on him when he started, was at a disadvantage as compared to the smaller Kelly. Generally speaking, the smaller, younger stars are going to be able to have more of the quickness and lightness on their feet that is required in ballroom dancing. I would have anticipated that Joey would have a "natural" advantage over the other non-pro men, given his age and size. It's cool that John, the oldest, one of the larger, and perhaps most out-of-shape of the batch, made it to the finals.

Yes, she said they wanted a variety of colors on the costumes to, I guess, "wow" the audience. I think she usually sticks to black and white in her costumes, but the costumers went with blues and reds as well for eye appeal.

I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but this is certainly the case for me! I'm as fond now of JOH as I was before, and I don't read his Larry King comments (or any others) in the negative way that some people are. I don't think he's whining, I think he's gracious and charming, and perpetually trying to make things light & humorous. Obviously, some people don't appreciate his humor...that's okay. We all have different perceptions of people.

JOH pretty much spoke the truth. He didn't say anything out of line. Larry King spoke to him more than any others, probably because he was the only one he regognized. Larry seemed to like Charlotte too.

I'd love to know how many votes were done. With 20 million viewers, I bet the voters didn't come close to that number. American Idol always said how many people voted.

Well, one of my points about John is, thanks to his talent and his attitude, he began with a big deficit similar to Evander - his size - and then add to that his weight, his age, and not being in shape, not being limber -- and he became the best dancer among the six "celebs" not just a good dancer for a big old guy. To me it's more than John made it to the finals - he should have won, because it was who was the best amateur dancer. That would be him, IMO. He had the physical challenge of lifting HIS weight just like Evander, so I'm just going to say Evander was simply not cut out to be a dancer, and it's more than him being a boxer and a big man.

Or at least the judges should not have unloaded those tens.

Kelly is athletic and could have done better technically if she hadn't concentrated on "more and more tricks". She may have hearing problems and not be naturally graceful - I'm assuming that's moving to the music in proper time. BUT, she could have been up on HER toes - she's lifting 100 lbs. And moved her feet more, and she should have been quicker and lighter on HER feet, because she's cut out for it. She didn't have to be a sack of potatoes which happened more than it ought to have, especially once she seemed to begin to catch on.

Joey said last night that producers filmed all rehearsals for all competitors.

Yes, I know all the rehearsals were filmed - but whose idea was it to show off Kelly's double load by having one of the rehearsals at GH's studio?

To make that happen, those producing General Hospital had to find space for Kelly/Alec and for the crew and equipment. Both DWTS and GH are ABC shows, I think the network set it up because it was a good story.

It's not Kelly saying - oh I'm so busy, why don't you come to my job and I'll fit you in between scenes --- and then the camera crew shows up on the doorstep.

It was set UP.

Just like Patrick Swayze was b.s. - did John O'H call him up and say help me do lifts? Or was that a network schtick that they set up?

I think the boxing ring was also schtick.

Kelly's was underdog, underdog, underdog - I can't do this, don't know that, I have so many disadvantages, but by God, I'm the pluckiest thing ever, you'll never keep me down, and I'll clutch hit a home run!

Wasn't it Kelly who pointed out the size, loyalty and dedication of daytime fans? After her absymal scores first time out, and she survived? She said daytime fans saved her because they are like that even with characters they don't like, like Sam on GH.

I had to laugh when even Larry King spotted Kelly Monaco's fall in the freedance sequence.



Don't kid yourself, that was a very awkward fall, after some shaky lifts. Decent job of covering up though.

Here's the difference for me - Kelly won, therefore, she shouldn't have to go out there and justify her win. John lost and all the "justification" he's doing is bound to look like sour grapes because of the fact he lost.

I wasn't annoyed with anyone as much as I was annoyed with Larry King, who was blatantly trying to get someone to say something controversial. He kept pointing at whoever going, "Face it. You thought you deserved to win, didn't you? DIDN'T YOU!"

In the end, I liked what Joey said about the whole thing - towards the end, with the last three couples, everyone deserved to win. But Kelly won. That's that. It's her win, it's over.

So stop trying to stir it up, LARRY. ;-)

And I completely agree with that. Perhaps John meant to be jokey, and I do think he was trying to be "in good fun" about it, but it still came off as ungracious to me. When asked if he felt he was at a disadvantage in the voting, he is more than eloquent enough to politely punt -- rather than saying he had a smaller fan base, and that the show needs tweaking to be great again. Again? After what? What does that mean? Perhaps it was a throw-away, a misspeak. But to me, it sounded like his not winning made the show not-great. Which is very not cool. And cutting and unkind to Kelly and Alec.

This isn't American Idol -- we aren't trying to find the world's next champion ballroom dancer. It was just a fun show meant to entertain. I liked Joey and Tom's calling it a variety show, rather than reality. A variety show with a cheesy trophy and title at the end. And both Charlotte and Alec will have a big boost to their teaching careers from this, I think, which is fantastic.


I don't think it's too difficult in a television studio building full of soundstages and rehearsal rooms to find a place for two dancers and 1-2 crew to practice. I get what you're saying, and I don't doubt there is cross-promotion (as with Trista). But I was under the impression (don't know why) that Kelly and Alec often practiced during the day at GH, but maybe it was just a one-time deal for publicity.

But sadly, the circumstances around her win (thanks to the judges) do put the burden on her -- fairly or unfairly. Had the judges not acted as they did, she would have won based on audience votes and we'd call it a day. In my field (tax law), we have a saying: "the fat hog gets slaughtered," which means if you stick to the rules and don't try to get too greedy, the IRS will leave you alone mostly, but if you try to cut the line too fine, you invite higher scrutiny and, consequently, trouble. ABC created this mess when they opted to go for the extra "drah-ma" instead of just letting it play out naturally. I do feel bad for Kelly being caught in the backlash because I don't believe it's her fault, but I don't blame John for responding to the questions put to him.

Again, two sides of the same coin: "insightful analysis of what happened and how ABC might regain viewer goodwill" vs. "sour grapes" depending on your personal predisposition towards John.

Space might not be the issue, but you most definitely have to have planning to get the crew, lighting, wiring, etc. set up in what is normally a rehersal room to film something for TV. Those scenes were not shot with a handycam.

Personally, I haven't heard John say anything that showed poor sportsmanship. But if he ever said, "Yes, it's a dance competition but also a popularity contest--including both your new and old fans--over the six weeks, too" would that be so wrong?

Because that's what it is, "dance + popularity". If it was just about dance, then only people knowledgable about what to look for would be doing the scoring. I don't see why it would be bad sportsmanship to point that out.

In all my memories of Charlotte in competition, she's in a white dress. I'm sure she wore other colors from time to time, but she looks really stunning in white, with lots of crystal AB rhinestones. And in all my lessons with her, she's usually been wearing a white top and black flowing pants (much like what she wore on LKL last night).

But jewel-tones suit her, too. She wouldn't look nearly as good in pastels, in my opinion.


I agree that John seemed to have a little bit of an attitude last night. I think he really wanted to win, and he's still a bit disappointed that he didn't. Charlotte's a lot more philosophical about it. One difference between this and other ballroom competitions is that there's no "wait till next year" for John. He had one chance, and this was it. Charlotte worked her way up through the ballroom circuit, and lost a whole lot of competitions on the way to the top - that definitely promotes a different sort of mindset. (I know a number of couples whose biggest dance goal is to make it to the top 200 at Blackpool; when winning is out of the question, you can still challenge yourself.) And it's not just schtick - at this point, she really is all about producing the dancing you want, and not worrying about the judging. That's what she tells all her couples, even while she's working with them on strategies to move up in the rankings - we'll do these things to help your scores, but only if they also contribute to producing the kind of dancing that you want to show.

(Now, if I were Charlotte, I'd be a bit annoyed at having my partner describe dancing with me as "clinging to the wreckage.")

I completely agree and that's how it came across to me as well.

How so? I took it to mean he was struggling to keep his head above water and she was his lifeline. That he was clinging to her to save himself. That without her, he would have drowned.

Well, first off, I don't think LK would have appreciated a polite punt. That's not what talk shows are about.

Secondly, I took the "great again" as an astute acknowledgment that, rightly or wrongly, a lot of viewers were pissed off at the ending and are still pissed off. ABC needs to acknowledge that and take steps to rebuild bridges if they want to bring those viewers back to the 2nd installment. Whether or not you agree with those viewers, it is a significant fact and even if they represent only a minority, ABC doesn't want to lose them. We can debate forever whether the show was fixed, but if viewers felt cheated, ABC has to deal with it. The combining of votes from the prior week with scores from this week was one of the most frequent complaints by *all* viewers and would be the obvious place to start to regain the legitimacy that has been lost in the eyes of some. IMHO, that's all John was saying.

I think everyone came in with their sets of weaknesses and strengths. At the same time John had a beautiful open carriage and naturally good posture for ballroom. John appears to also be musically inclined. And being tall has its advantages esp. in the Standard dances (e.g. waltzes, foxtrot) because you just create longer lines in your extension and strides. Both Rachel and John had great natural extension in their movements. Maybe because they had more mass to maneuver, their footwork sometimes can be choppy at faster tempos, but this is more because they are at times flat footed and do not roll to the ball of their feet to propel their motion. This is what Evander suffers from and his weight distribution, not necessarily his size.

Joey and Kelly are smaller so may have an easier time being light on their feet and could be more athletic and dynamic, and would likely excel in the Latin dances better. But both suffer from horrible-for-ballroom GenX/hip-hop posture, which can only be corrected with time since you have to ingrain it in muscle memory. Rachel and to some extent Kelly, are also quite flexible -- which is easier for women. Joey is also musically inclined.

My point I guess, is that everyone will have their pluses and minuses coming in. I don't think I would use that as a basis for judging, only applaud them all for trying to tackle their own weaknesses.

If I were a pro coach and I had to choose a student for the short term, it would be either John or Rachel because of their posture. John's musicality is also a plus. When I teach beginner ballroom (free college classes), the first thing I emphasize is posture and musicality.

Musicality is a little under-rated I think. For structured dances like ballroom, you have to not only move to the beat, you have to initiate specific movements on the correct beats. For instance, most of my students have no problem clapping on the beat, however if I ask them to clap only on beats 1, 5 and 7, most people are stumped. People who have a music background have an advantage because they understand the music structure.

O'Hurley continues to badmouth the show.

O'Hurley Claims Hidden Agenda

This perfectly explains how I felt as well! And like I've said earlier, I loved John during the series and voted for him several times. I'm not someone who was anti-John all along and pro-Kelly. Overall, my vote for the winner of the series would be John, however, he didn't win. He has every right to be bummed and disappointed; anyone in his shoes would be. Yet, he could word his disappointment in a more eloquent way that doesn't appear to diminish the win of Kelly and Alec. Though not everyone thinks he diminished their win, enough people do feel he did, so I feel he should re-think his phrasing in future interviews to maintain a strong, respected image to the greatest number of people he can.

Frankly, I think most of the general audience sat on the couch eating their popcorn and enjoyed the show. People who post on internet boards are not the majority who watch TV, IMO. So, all this discussion about conspiracy theories and who rigged the voting and who got the most fans to vote is moot, as well as whose dancing "deserved" to win. I hate to see a truly entertaining, family show get driven to the ground by the viewers who insist that the results were rigged. That's the reason why I feel ABC is not going to be too hasty in announcing its second season for DwtS...I am sure they are dealing with all the pros and cons first.

I'd prefer to see the entire article rather than a few words spliced here and there. And even with an article, it's hard to judge the context of a statement.

Again, people will believe what they will.

I'm hesitant to form an opinion about this since it's the New York Post, which is a bastion of inaccurate entertainment reporting and quotes out of context.

While I had just snarked quite a bit on John for bringing up the 'built-in' votes, I do believe it was just disappointment bleeding in. They have no specific quote for the "agenda" and I don't want to pin bitterness on John without seeing the context of this. Say it ain't so Mr. Peterman!

WORD to that Livia52001!

I completely disagree. AI never acknowledged anything when Rueben won over Clay and I think that caused much more of an uproar than JOH not beating Kelly Monaco. The only thing they ever say with any of their "controversies" is "go over to the phone and vote".

Again, the thing that needs to be acknowledged IMO is that John fans needed to get their butts off the couch and over to the phone to vote. I don't think the network needs to be running scared from a few John fans that feel ripped off or from a part of the dance community that looked down it's nose at the show almost the whole season.

[quote]The combining of votes from the prior week with scores from this week was one of the most frequent complaints by *all* viewers and would be the obvious place to start to regain the legitimacy that has been lost in the eyes of some. [/quote]
But, as was posted earlier today, that's the way it is done in Australia. It's not as though it were planned in some way to "rig" the show, and indeed, I don't see how such a voting procedure could rig or de-legitimize the results. There's no real way to fix the way voting is done, other than switching to a results-show type thing ala AI, or cutting someone at the beginning of the next show, which means someone has worked really hard for a week for naught. Plus, it's more fun to have more couples dancing each week, only having five dance week two, four in week three, etc.
[quote]My point I guess, is that everyone will have their pluses and minuses coming in. I don't think I would use that as a basis for judging, only applaud them all for trying to tackle their own weaknesses.[/quote]
I completely agree with that. It's just the nature of this type of competition -- there are going to be many variables that affect performance and results.
[/QUOTE]Space might not be the issue, but you most definitely have to have planning to get the crew, lighting, wiring, etc. set up in what is normally a rehersal room to film something for TV. Those scenes were not shot with a handycam.[QUOTE]
There is some middle ground b/w full soundstage and handycam. Reality shows have pretty portable crews. I think the burden to set up would be more on DWTS than GH. Probably less difficult for DWTS than shooting at Kelly's pool, or outside with John and Charlotte exercising.

Everyone knew the rules up front. They might be stupid and confusing, but they were well known.