Wow, I can't believe people are still posting on this thread...DwtS has legs. I just wanted to chime in to say that even though I've repeatedly stated that I can't stand to watch Kelly dance, I think all this conspiracy theory stuff is just complete and utter stupidity. I mean come on, it's just ballroom dancing!!!! One of the things you have to learn as a dancesport competitor is to let go of the times the results aren't what you had hoped for, and keep going. And this is why I'm so utterly suprised by the chatter the final result has engendered!!!!

Unless...unless...here it comes...ABC is having flacks whip up a contraversy to keep DwtS in people's minds and hearts. Look at all the press and forum posts and talk shows etc etc regarding the outcome of the show. It's been a week now and postings here on TWoP have barely slowed down. The ABC board is going strong. And they're all going to be on freakin' Larry King? The mind boggles.

It's becoming a full-fledged phenomenon.

Cool.

Hella cool.

When's the next series starting??????

Well, I for one really have enjoyed all the chats here and insights from ballroom dancers. The additional knowledge gained here about the pros, their training/competitions and dancesport events made watching DwtS even more fun! I still am trying to figure out how this show got so popular, so quickly. In the past I watched Olympic figure skating and ice dancing but over the years, ratings for those sports have declined. Now that ballroom dancing, and maybe dancing in general, is gaining more attention....will high ratings spill over to the other dancing shows coming up? Maybe it's just the "celebrity" factor that generates viewer interest.

djork be my BFF? You made me grin like a fool with that little mental image. I am on the K/A ship with you and enjoying the ride.

You know once I finally let me eyes move to, ahem, other places, I noticed that Alec even holds his hands in a wonderful manner. For me, as an uneducated dance girl, it kind of got a little lost in the dancing until I took some time to go back and look.

Good question! It's obvious from the interest this show is still generating that ABC needs to let us know so we can start the countdown. Unless...part of the conspiracy is to get us all unhappy and worried about if we get another installment. Maybe in our uncertainty we will start watching ABC 24/7 just to make sure we don't miss it. Maybe we will only buy things from ABC advertisers, maybe we will only do what ABC tells us to do, maybe we will all vacation at DisneyWorld each year until we die. [/end wild, meaningless theory] People need to step back and realize this is only a tv show. I loved it and look forward to a new version with great hope, but I don't spend my time worrying about any behind the scenes plotting. There’s too much real stuff in the world to worry about.

Just to let you know, my 6 year old has now proclaimed herself as Alec's #1 fan. She wrote him a letter asking him to come to our state and dance for us.

Yes, the ship even has a kid's section.

I think this show was so successful because for once there wasn't any clawing at each other to win the grand prize. Actually, now that they've shown everyone what a craptastic trophy you actually get, will it help or hurt the process of getting new talent?

I think the "celebrity" factor did help gather initial interest. But I think it's also the type of celebrity they got. Having Evander sign on I think was really fortunate because nobody can really accuse Evander of being a famewhore, and once you tune in you realize how gracious all the celebs where, and really hardworking, no one's a diva.

So in the end, I think, people stayed because the show had a warm-hearted feel, how seriously the celebs took the training and how fun it was to watch and cheer for them to perform well -- instead of messing up. I mean, I can get viciousness and cattiness in other reality shows. If anything that would turn me away from this show it would actually be the viciousness of some of the fans.


I blame that on the sucky pseudo-patriotic coverage the networks employed. When I was young (only 15-20 years ago), it used to be the coverage was focused on the sport and all the top athletes, American or not. The casual viewer knows or at least are familiar with the top international athletes -- e.g. Katarina Witt, Torvill & Dean, Gordeeva & Grinkov. Now they just only show Americans competing. Worked fine only when they were in the top of the field, otherwise, you have non-American finals where the audience doesn't know anyone because they haven't been shown anyone else before. Interest lags and it's a self-fullfilling prophesy that no one watches because there are no Americans involved.

Bah! Sorry for the rant :) I get so mad about this because skating coverage has sucked for so long now... same with gymnastics and tennis.

ETA Thanks HillMama, I get giddy reading posts of other Kelly/Alec shippers too! I makes me feel like I'm not just 'imagining' things -- well at least not by my lonesome. Kelly/Alec love affair is officially a phenomena.

Thanks for your thoughts djork. I happened to watch the finale a couple of more times and I tell ya, the way that Alec looked at Kelly before, during and after they danced? Can the professional dancers here tell me, was that just the looks a proud coach would give to his prize pupil? Is Alec just incredible or what? 'Cos Kelly never looked at HIM that way. Those looks, the hugs, his nose nozzling in her hair, man! Made me blush with hotness. Sigh.

The Kelly/Alec ship sails on! I must admit that I'm glad that I'm not the only one still grinning over this and that this forum is still going. I can't admit my fangirl status to anyone outside of TWoP. I'm looking forward to next season. If Alec is once again on (Lord I hope so 'cuz he's smoking hot), I will be comparing his reactions to his new partner to his with Kelly.

I'm on the good ship too, for no other reason than she made Alex laugh! That first episode, the guy was a stone, gelled hair and all. Kelly's little 'AUGH!' face when he turned around said so much. And then you see him laughing and cracking jokes, and his gelled shellacked hair is now all loose and messy. It's so Pride and Prejudice, Redux.



[monica voice] I know! [/monica voice] At the very least, the guy had an innocent crush. Because all that hair kissing, hugging, nuzzling, pulling into her side. He'd do it every minute! The Viennese waltz, when they went over to the judges, everyone else was doing a formal hold, and Alec just grabbed her around the waist and hoisted her into his side. And then when Carrie Anne said they were her favorite of the waltz, all he did was pull her in tighter and land another kiss on top of her head.

Aww, Alec. You so crazy in lurve.

As much fun as it is to believe otherwise, I think the looks Alec gave Kelly and his affectionate gestures were probably a bit of an act. Latin dances are about "heat" and to quote "Strictly Ballroom," the rhumba is the dance of "pretend love." I'm sure that all couples, regardless of if they are romantically involved with each other, spend a lot of time in front of the mirrors perfecting their expressions and gestures to supplement their dancing. Kelly and Alec were obviously going for the hot, young, sexy couple vibe, and I bet they knew there was a lot of speculation on what was going on off-the-floor that fueled people's interest in them. It sounds like after Evander was voted off, Edyta was pretty involved in Alec and Kelly's practices, and went out with them after performances, so I don't think there would have been much time for anyting more to develop b/w Kelly and Alec. Seeing as they are both apparently in relationships, I now prefer to think that Alec is just a consummate performer, and is "on" whenever there's a camera. Alec is more experienced, so rather than having to concentrate on the moves, he could be more emotive than Kelly. And in the interviews, she's doing all the talking, so there's nothing for him to do but look down at her adoringly. But I agree -- Alec certainly gave Kelly some very swoony, dreamy looks.

As to whether or not Kelly's winning is a big conspiracy, I would direct the court's attention
to John's getting to dance with the actual Paso song during the Paso Doble, whereas the other two pairs didn't get the proper and recognized music. The big "nobody puts Baby in a corner" dance of the most-watched ballroom dancing movie (you know, b/c the genre is so huge), "Strictly Ballroom" is the Paso, to the Paso song. The Paso scene in "Dance With Me" (which, by the way, I am embarassed to admit I have re-watched to see if I could catch Alec) features the Paso song. So even people with no personal experience with ballroom would expect the Paso song to accompany the Paso Doble, rather than Bambaleo and Eye of the Tiger. Alec and Ashly had to choreograph a mongrelized Paso with other dance elements to work with their songs. Given the way TPTB meted out the songs, I wouldn't have deemed Kelly the favorite.

If I were Edyta, I'd sure be there everytime Alec & Kelly "practiced". If all that cuddly, schmoopy stuff was an act, then Alec is Hot AND a good actor.

Hi Livia52001, not a pro dancer but I can give you an idea of my experience with myself and the other amateur dancers I've met... It's really hard to say because everyone is different and have different circumstances. Maybe I'll make broad generalizations of what I've seen:

A. Dancers who just act like they're into each other. Hard to sell unless they're good actors. Usually don't buy this because you can tell it's put on.

B. Dancers who get in character and allow themselves to "go there" and feel the passion and emotions on the dance floor.

C. Dancers who are into each other and "go there" on the dance floor. Hard to tell from B unless you know their history.

D. Dancers who are into each other but for some reason can't bring the passion on the dance floor. You can often still sense tenderness though.

As a K/A shipper I want to believe they're either B or C :)
For option B, supposedly you turn it all off once you leave the dance floor. A lot of couples have no problem doing this -- separating dance intimacy from real life. From Joey's NY Daily News interview, he seems to subscribe to this notion of option B:

But sometimes option B does slip and bleed into real life, being human it's sometimes hard to contain those emotions you unleash. I've also seen couples who fall in love this way. So B can be a precarious situation and lead to much drama in the ballroom world. Think Angie/Brad/Jen.

But I have to warn, I'm in such Kelly/Alec la-la land, I think everything I say is in 'suxy'-colored glasses, hee-hee.

It was really more the "non dancing" looks, hugs and nuzzles that got my atention more than anything on the floor. There was one time before they danced the first Samba where they were showing them before commercial break and Alec was doing this little groove dance behind Kelly and I don't think he realized they were on camera. This was also the week of the many little head kisses. The next week, it was much cooler between them, like "pay attention to those who don't talk to each other, it says volumes".

We'll do the ship analysis tonight after Larry King.

I also think that Alec lucked out having a partner that was much more uninhibited with her body and getting into the dances. I can't believe after all the modeling Rachel did she's almost uncomfortable with herself in front of people.

Welcome to the ship Aut235, I think you're right, Alec's on and off the dance floor behavior with his new partner can give us a clue how much he's acting!

barkley I agree, it is mostly the non-dancing stolen hugs, gazing and kisses that drive the ship. But I still think there is something with the looks they give each other while dancing... Granted you see pro comps from farther away and you don't have the close-ups... and granted this is a small sample size, but check out Alec's facial expression when he dances with Edyta -- can you say intensely blank/put-on? lol.

Maybe Alec just got better at emoting. And Edyta is a much different dancer than Kelly, she gives off more of an agressive, raw energy (she calls herself animalistic), or they are portraying an emotion that requires a stoic stone-face look... but the shipper in me says there is something to the tender smitten looks between them while they're dancing. Hee-hee.


OMG mistiec as if there were not enough reasons!! You just made me squeal :)

ETA Kelly fans, how much heat does Kelly produce with her GH co-stars?

And "Larry King Live" usually puts up the full transcript in a couple of hours (maybe sooner this time, since it looks like it was taped earlier).

Or after the "Stacy's Mom" video!

I used to be in the "Kelly and Alec are totally in lurve" camp, but a lot of the fun has gone out of it now that I know they're both with other people. It would be pretty stupid of Alec as to mess up what he has with Edyta on a professional basis. I'm sure Alec's seen a pretty girl before, and danced with one before (i.e., Edyta), unless he's just star-struck by Kelly: Actress! Playmate! Baywatch! Natural-Looking Tan! Hair That Moves! But, it's still fun to speculate!

I have noticed that they seemed closer than the other couples off-the-floor, but I sort of attributed that to their being nearly the same age, being comfortable with each other, and the "survivor bond" of being beaten down by the judges repeatedly. I think Ashly, Edyta, and Jonathan were a bit intimidated by their celebrities (huge boyband star! heavyweight champion of the world! supermodel!), and perhaps the fact that John and Kelly were pretty low-level celebs helped their partners build an easier and faster rapport which translated into better dancing? It sounds like K/A have a friendly non-dancing relationship now -- she took him to Hef's July 4th party, they go out together after performances, etc.

ETA:
Could not agree more! I'll miss the watching parties my friends and I had, yelling at the screen whenever K/A came on.

Honestly, while I am on the good ship, it's mostly just silly fun for me. I'm definitely not actively looking to break up Alec and Edyta, I actually really like Edyta, because she was trying so hard with Evander. She put him in the boxing ring to learn the quickstep! Awww.

Still, I think Alec and Kelly have mad chemistry together, I want to see them on my screen again, dammit (I'm actually kinda depressed there's no new DWTS tonight). I got way too used to the hot and the pretty.

Plus, it's just fun being thirteen again.

Not to mention - I don't want to have to watch General Hospital just to watch Kelly. I don't. I already waste so much time on All My Children, and the times I've tried with GH I just end up wanting to throw things at the mob guys. And it's every day! Please, Kelly, for my sake: prime time show. Then I only have try to make time once a week.

Well, I don't watch GH anymore (they drove me away years ago and I'm not getting into why) but she has apparently been able to coax some miniscule emotion out of The Borg so that's saying something.

I did watch her on Port Charles and she had some seriously scintillating chemistry with her co-star Michael Easton. They were ridiculously hot. Even though their first round kind of creeped me out because I thought she looked so young next to him I got over it later on and, yes, they had the IT. She also sizzled with Brian Gaskill when her character was trying to seduce him out of revenge. And I always thought she was a very good actress. There's only so much smoulder you can really take before you start to wonder if that's all there is, but with her, it wasn't. She had a dual role for a while and the differences between Tess and Livvie were very well done. She also had a storyline where she switched personalities with her goody-good rival. They both did an excellent job with that (I understand the actresses were very good friends) and her vulnerability always came out when she was with her Dad.

Even with the ludicrous storylines (Port Charles went deep into the supernatural bent) she was always worth watching.

They haven't done her character on GH nearly the same service. She's had a long upward battle to get any kind of respect there but I think she's earned quite a bit of it.

Snerk!!! Yes, I'm 12, why do you ask?

Anyhoo...regarding AlecNotAlex/Kelly and their maybe/maybe not off-stage relationship? I vote 'not', because it always seemed to me that Kelly was quick to pull away from him (or push him away from her) when they came off the dance floor. I think Alec's more 'experienced' (heh) at being touchy-feely with his dance partners, and while Kelly was just fine w/ being all suxy with him on the dance floor, she wanted clear parameters set for off-stage behavior.

Still, it's fun to think of the couples pairing-up, after sharing many steamy moments of practice & performance!

Although, I'd hate to cross Edyta. She looks mean! And Kelly may be feisty, but I'm guessing she'd lose very quickly in a fight against Edyta!

I always thought that it was one of two things with Kelly/Alec: either they're smart, or they're stupid.

Smart would be to play up their amazing chemistry and use that to entice fans into their corner. DwtS is, after all, a competition, and it's safe to say that at least half, if not the majority, of the audience don't have the eye to tell apart a dance that's good technically from a dance that's not-quite-as-good technically. An entertaining dance combined with a couple that sparks and sizzles might sway some votes to their side.

Stupid would be to let their suxy feelings bleed through.

(Personally, I hope for the latter!)

I watched DwtS' last two episodes and I was instantly attracted to Kelly and Alec because of their chemistry. The hugging, the nuzzling, the kissing, and their closeness fueled my imagination. Especially when you compare Kelly/Alec to Ashly/Joey or Charlotte/John, they seem much, much closer. Alec was always giving Kelly little kisses, little smiles, and holding her very close. During interviews and reviews, when she talks, he looks at her, watches her speak. And their training footage - man. It was adorable. They were very playful and it even seemed as if Alec was very affectionate.

I'm holding onto the thought that the ship will one day sail away, happily ever after. But, despite that, I still think that it comes down to one of two things: they (especially Alec) are incredible actors, or very, very bad.

Thank goodness for Larry King tonight because I'm sure that I'm going to be going through major withdrawal at 9PM E.S.T I just can't believe that DWtS is over! SOB

Access Hollywood is doing a segment on the DWtS "conspiracy" tomorrow. <rolls eyes> Of course, they took all of these snippets of John saying things like, "It's going to be hard to beat Kelly when she has all of those GH fans," and "I didn't know that this was going to be a popularity contest" from old interviews. I really hate that the press is trying to make it sound like John and Charlotte are being poor sports about all this. I just refuse to believe it. They made it to the finals; they got a lot of great press and the exposure has led to them getting some wonderful offers for more work. So, who cares about the cheesy trophy?

And because I'm 12 . . . Alec + Kelly = Meant2B :) :)

Oh, I don't want them to break up with their current partners either. I'm just playing 13 year old fangurl.

It was that amazingly sexy rumba that first caught my attention - my living room was practically on fire. After that, I was hooked into the suxy.

I saw the situation completely differently. Charlotte/John seemed to become very good friends throughout the competition. I did notice Alec nuzzling & agog over Kelly, but I noticed none of that from her towards him.

But, whatever! They were all fun to watch. And no matter the outcome (or how bitter I still feel about it...grrr...) I am really looking forward to another season of DWtS. Hoping for some excellent 'celebs'.

I was joking around about the Kelly/Alec chemistry bothering Edyta because it's fun and snarky. Actually, there probably is a connection there but just one of pride (for Alec) in how much Kelly has progressed thru the competition. Plus, she's gorgeous, sexy, determined, feisty and just so adorable. I think he's really just so proud of her hard work & success on the show. I wouldn't be surprised if Alec & Edyta and Kelly & her guy aren't good friends after all this.

In my experience with theatre dance, it really is easy to turn the "sizzle" on and off when you are playing to an audience. And with Latin dances you MUST keep the sizzle ON while you are on the floor.

I know, same with figure skating. I always thought the brother-sister pairs were a bit gross. Gordeeva and Grinkov were such a cute couple.

I know no one really wants Alec and Edyta to break up, I just meant to explain why some of wind has been let out of the sails of my ship. B/c I didn't realize until after the finals that they had sig o's -- my friends and I pretty seriously thought "oh, they are totally hitting the sheets the second the cameras are off." Good times, good times. So I'm bummed, b/c I thought they were MFEO. Hee.


Very true. And I think there's the connection of being in the trenches together and having a lot of criticism piled on them for the first few weeks, and if they read the boards, a lot of mean comments being tossed around concerning them (well, mostly Kelly). So could some of the head-kisses and hands-on-shoulder-or-waist be explained away as protective/comforting/reassuring? Trista was gone too soon (and had that no-touching policy with Luis), so I can't recall their interaction. Nor can I remember Jonathan's and Rachel's. And John and Joey really don't need to reassure their partners, as they are the pros.

Or, they could have been crushing on each other! Looking forward to Larry to get me over my withdrawal.

Sorry, but this is a bunch of hooey, IMO.

Kelly wasn't the first ABC actor to be asked to do DWTS. Others turned down the chance. She agreed practically at the last minute. Plus, it hadn't even occurred to ABC Daytime to promote General Hospital during DWTS. It wasn't until the final episode that a GH promo appeared on the show. Not a great job of showcasing.

Anyone could register on ABC.com. I did. It took less than a minute. Fans of every other couple could have registered as well. And I tape GH, I never saw one instance of "pleading" for votes for Kelly.

It couldn't be a tie. 1) All votes were tabulated. It wasn't a matter of internet votes vs. phone votes. 2) It's highly unlikely that two contestents would get exactly the same number of votes. Whoever won the popular vote by even one vote would have the points for that first place ranking. Even if there WAS a tie for the popular vote....3) There was not likely to be a tie on the judges ratings. Imagine, a tie would require both couples to get the exact same points from the judges AND exactly equal viewer votes. No one in a million years could ever "expect" that to happen.

Wrong. Kelly and Alec could have gotten all 3s on their dances and still won, as long as they won the popular vote. If John and Charlotte won the judges ranking and got 2 points for that, but lost the popular vote (getting 1 point for that) they'd have a total of three points. If Kelly and Alec lost the judges ranking (getting 1 point for coming in second) and won the popular vote (getting two points), they'd also have three points. But since "tie" goes in favor of the audience favorite, Kelly and Alec would win. They didn't need 10s at all to win. They didn't even need to show up, as long as the audience was voting for them.

Whoever was "overheard" saying this stuff didn't know what they were talking about.

Sleestak:



This confused me for far longer than I care to admit -- I couldn't figure out why The Hulk and Pa Wilder would have fought over me.


I still don't get all the K/A shipping. It seems to me that they tolerated each other at best and always looked so damn annoyed with each other. After each dance they'd pat each other on the back and walk off separately. Whereas John and Charlotte, after each dance, would be all over each other, hugging and touching and joking around. Much sweeter.

Just throwing in that *I* don't see the Kelly/Alec stuff either. To me - JMO - the same face can read "I'm going to be sick to my stomach I'm so nervous" "I'm a snotty, arrogant bitch" "I forgot the next step" "I want to hump my partner" and "shhh, I'm concentrating" -- depending.

I don't think it's that challenging to steam it up on the dance floor, if your look is right.

The results - I don't think Kelly blew anybody or slept with anyone. I very much doubt Charlotte bitched out any judge - her comments about judging prior to this show seem mature - you leave yourself open to be judged, you acquiese to whatever rules may be - including popularity contests - and carry on. She seems to do that in her REAL bailiwick - I can't imagine her getting her nose out of joint over this hybrid thing she did.

I think the internet voting probably helped Kelly.

The only bogus thing I believe is the judges' three tens for that unsteady, stumbling, dead stopping, semi-naked, non-dancing gymnastics exhibition put on by K/A. They knew K/A were the popular vote winners and would be the DWTS winners, so they rolled. Those were bogus. Whatever K/A did in the finale, dancing wasn't it. K getting thrown around by A and showing she's limber - very nice. Not dancing. The judges knew it, and threw even their paltry cheesefest standards to the winds. They broke their own standards for those scores.

Just finished watching Larry King. It was a very enjoyable hour. It probably would have been a lot more enjoyable if someone muzzled John at about 20 minutes in. He's charming and informative, but has one of those personalities where he must always be talking.

So much WORD. John was pretty much monopolizing the thing, even when a question was directed at Alec.

A couple of things from Larry King...

Alec HATED the green shirt he said it made him look like a "superhero". Bergeron thought it made him look like a really built Keebler Elf.

Everyone snarked on the trophy.

Joey is really pissed at Len and Bruno because of their comments. He thought that he was held to a different standard than everyone else.

I thought John came across as kind of bitter. There's an article in today's NYPost and he says there was an "agenda", and he said a couple of times that this show needed "tweaking". However, he did say that the contest was fair and square, but that doesn't jive with his other comments.

I agree with your post 100%, Nyree. I don't think it's a question of the "controversy" (such as it is) having been generated by ABC. Rather, it was (is?) a natural reaction from a lot of people who independently came to the same conclusion within seconds of seeing those 3 10s handed out in that manner ... for that dance ... in the context of 6-week competition that had seen better dances scored lower (and no, I'm not just talking about J/C -- I think a couple of J/A routines, or even K/A's samba were better). People don't like to be played. It's not about being a sore loser.

We know that Kelly would have won anyway because she had the public vote (think of that what you will), but the validity of the judging was called into question with that last bit and many of us found it insulting, regardless of whether it was engineered by ABC or the judges did it of their own volition.


Actually, ABC shut that down last Friday. Not sure if that is standard practice when a show goes on haitus, or if they just didn't like the griping/accusations. Having witnessed very similar behavior by Sci Fi Channel when Farscape fans were pissed about that show's cancellation, I wouldn't but it past the network to take steps to limit criticism. Just as I wouldn't put it past them to generate "gossip" to discredit John and Charlotte. I am not saying they did, just that it wouldn't surprise me. TV network execs don't operate by the same rules you or I do.

John talked so much because everybody was stone cold dead, barely felt like talking mood. If anybody but John or Bergeron talked they only spoke a few words or sentences. I am glad John was there or else it would have been one long dreadful boring hour.



Well, Alec had the deer in headlights look to him, and if you ask me you probably had to put a mirror below his mouth to check if he was still alive. He looked so uncomfortable being on there. Plus Kelly is really boring. Like I said above eveybody but John needed a good kick to get them to come out and really talk. John being there made it more interesting.

One question for you Barkley why do you hate John so much.

I enjoyed the Larry King show with all my DwtS favorites! Yeah, I expected that John would talk the most but that wasn't surprising, and I find him entertaining. I feel that Joey got a lot of time in as well as Charlotte. In fact, I think Larry asked Charlotte the most about her career and her work. Carrie was my favorite judge so I was happy to see her there. As for Kelly and Alec - well, Alec is normally shy from what I read in these forums...and Kelly just seems to be down-to-earth and a no-nonsense kind of person, so she wouldn't be entertaining or cracking jokes like John. I did like Kelly closing the show with saying how glad she was that no money was involved in the winning, so there was no backstabbing like on some other reality shows that involve money...for her, winning was just a matter of pride in her work.

I loved the recaps of all the shows so it was like seeing the whole series again!

"Larry King Live" was enjoyable, with lots of dance clips. It would have been helped, however, if Larry had ever seen the show. (Larry to Charlotte: "Wait a minute! You taught John to dance????")

John talked a lot but he's got an exuberant personality. The others seemed a little too subdued. I did like how they went on and on about Evander's contributions (no mention of Rachel or Trista, though, ha.)

John and Joey put on a game face. BUT....I could see a problem with this show and am actually surprised its still going on in the UK. After all, they have actors/stars ("C" list or "D" list, they've still got some sort of "name" and are professionals). These are people who are (1) used to being successful and (2) used to being complimented and (3) not used to working quite this hard, physically, and time-wise, only to be told they aren't doing well...or aren't doing well enough.

John and Joey were trying to be good sports, but from a local radio interview I know John thought he didn't lose because Kelly was actually better. And I don't think Joey thought his scoring (and especially the negative comments) was fair either. I can't say that I blame them.

They get a generous salary for 13 weeks (accd to John), but have to put in a lot of time, be judged "as yourself instead of your character" (Kelly) and sometimes have to hear a lot of things they feel are unfair and unappreciative of their efforts (Joey).

If you think about it, it's kind of surprising they can get "stars" (or even pro dancers who are used to being more of a "big deal" than this show acknowledges) to do this at all.

More thoughts - if anybody else on DWTS was talky, I feel that J O'H would have stepped aside, but he stepped into the breach.

Joey McIntyre. In retrospect, I think at his worst he was about par with Kelly at her very best. Yes, he stagnated, and didn't bust a gut, but you're supposed to award achievement, and not deduct for lack of effort. It's a fact that, say, I could rehearse 9 hours a day with the best and not produce a performance more worthy than somebody who rehearsed half assed once a week for an hour with more talent. In a contest, results are what count.

As I see it, the finalists were right - the final three. Rachel was a decent dancer, but for the most part her dances were slow and her choreography was slow and simple.

Evander, Trista, Kelly and John O'H had the strongest partners. Trista was done in by choreography and her own uptightyness/prissiness. Evander was done in being a jive dancing slow rolling mellow boxer paired with a pistol who buried him every time she lifted a heel.

Joey was perhaps a bit done in by a green choreographer/partner. With a more experienced teacher, he could have buried the other two (Kelly and John). Ashley should have done a Charlotte on him - taught him to DANCE - not kind of faked the dancing and leaned on his showmanship.

I think the ending was a complete rip-off, and it all resides in the three tens. People who know dancing know closed dancing is incredibly difficult. Say we all knocked however many years off our ages it would take to be our strongest and most limber. And we went to dancing school. Ten times out of ten, we'd find it easier to do a backwalk down a staircase than to do a hold with a dancing partner and dance patterns without tripping over our own feet or someone else's.

John and Charlotte were the best dancers. I don't care about the popular vote. It's those tens that stunk up the joint and tarnished an otherwise sweet show. Before this I felt whatever scores the judges put up, they believed in their point of view, even if it was biased toward Rachel - the point of view was honest.

I felt none of them were behind the tens - those tens made NO sense compared ot prior dances - J&C's Foxtrot (incredibly difficult - almost all closed dancing) and paso doble, even K/A's samba, and early Rachel/Jonathan. The "ten" routine was not dancing.

Dance with Me is one of my favorite dance movies. I didn't realize that Alec was in it. I did recognize other pro dancers. (Unfortunately, while I know their faces, I don't know their names.) Is Alec supposed to be in the samba scene? The Paso scene? I'll have to re-watch those scenes, frame by frame.

I think the 10's made sense in comparison to the 9's John and Charlotte got. I stand by my assertion the judges overshot with John and Charlotte's 9's for that terrible freestyle (beyond awful choreography with some mistakes in the routine) so when Kelly & Alec did a better freestyle (good choreography with some mistakes in the routine) then they had to give them 10's. It would have made more sense for John and Charlotte to receive 7's and Kelly & Alec to receive 8's but the problem was not the 10's - it was the overshooting with the 9's. In fact I was more astounded at the 9's than the 10's because as I said above I was routing or J&C (even voted for them on the phone) before their last routine which I hated with a fiery passion.


Bluetickmaggie, I don't get the impression Barkley hates John but even if she did this is Television Without Pity and she doesn't have to justify her opinion.

Now to add my two cents to John. I didn't see the Larry King interview but my good will towards him is starting to erode. I feel like he is adding fuel to this conspiracy theory fire by dropping innuendos into his interviews. I would honestly have more respect for him if he flat out said I was robbed.

I think it takes a particular kind of person to be willing to be exposed like this..and as for the stars, yeah, it sucks to be criticized on live tv, but that's what you sign up for. Since they get paid upfront and generously (at least that's what John said) I can't feel too bad for them. I can see how much hard work they put into learning the dances and even if they don't perform every move perfectly, I appreciated seeing the effort. Like in any show that has judges and audience voting, results will not be fair in everyone's opinion. The show IS entertainment after all, and not a real ballroom competition.

Ugh, I'm so sick of the schtick he has. Dial it down a notch. Or six. He really needs to let some other people talk. Kelly and Joey are both personable, when allowed to talk. Who died and made him the spokesperson of the show? I found her quite charming and cute and funny with Jay on The Tonight Show. You know, funny as in interacting with the person she's talking to, not just letting fly his practiced one-liners. Joey did a nice job of piping in as much as he could, and mentioning Ashly who was left out.

I heard him talking over Kelly and Alec at times, as well as Joey. Question asked to the whole panel, John answered. Anyone answered, he followed it up. And if I were Kelly and Alec, I'd be a little subdued, too, if Gabby McTalkerson had basically said we didn't deserve to win. And takes over the conversation devoted to the show we won. Pretty classless of John claiming that his "built-in" fanbase was too small, and that's the only reason he didn't win. Good for Larry for pointing out that "what, Seinfeld doesn't have a fanbase?" More people voted for Kelly and and Alec, just let it lie with that. Don't moan about how the show needs tweaking just b/c you lost. Take a lesson on graceful losing for the 10-year olds on Mad Hot Ballroom (which, by the way Charlotte is in for a second!).

Not me. I can't even do a cartwheel. I think I'd snap a wrist if I tried that move.

If I recognize him right (it takes some pausing, and it was almost 10 years ago), I think he is in the next to last Vegas dance competition number (Scene 22, "Round One," before the big finals). You can see him when the couples parade in, I think he's the one in the silver silky shirt (sadly, not tight!). And then you see him a bit more throughout the dancing and in the bullpen when the finalists are being called.

Having just spent the last 2 days participating on a 4-person panel conducting a seminar, I can appreciate this!

I'm curious about the claim that Alec was in Dance with Me. Has anyone actually spotted him in it? Most of the dancers in the movie were not listed in the credits. It was shot during the summer of 1997, back when he was 19, and he wasn't with Edyta back then, so it's possible that he looked a bit different. I actually don't even remember him competing back in 1997, I thought that was when he was going to Berkeley.

Quick flash...I just saw John O'Hurley in a Progressive Auto Insurance commercial. It was a lame commercial, but it was nice to see him on my TV screen, albiet briefly.

In the "Alec Answers" section on Kelly's fansite, he says he spent about a month filming on Dance With Me, which I'm a bit surprised at b/c he's just really in two or three scenes surrounding the Samba. But, I guess choreographing it was probably a big task, and coordinating all the couples. And then filming it. In the bullpen (or whatever you call it in dancing), while waiting for the finalists to be announced, he's standing right behind Vanessa Williams. He's by no means a main character, of course.


And to be honest, I didn't know either. I came into the show cheering on Joey Mac. I never watched Seinfeld, so I guess the charm of the Peterman schtick was lost on me.

It was a rookie mistake for the judges to have scored J/C so high on their final dance. 1) that was not their best dance ever, by far; and 2) it completely assumed that K/A weren't going to do anything.

John better just go back to his corner and build up some more good wil by playing quietly, before self-destructing with all these talk shows. Esp. if he and Charlotte really are trying to get some Broadway show started. Hubris, buddy. I don't think TPTB at ABC really need your condescending to help them "tweak" the show just b/c you lost. I don't disagree the show can use some retooling, but it's not really his place to say, and it's de classe to go on about it, especially in a panel discussion in which those who won by this "flawed" system are right there.

Thank you Binks.

I just watched the replay of a part of the LKL inteview where they are talking about the trophy and the winners getting paid and John completely interrupts Alec and starts in. I used to like John very much, in fact he was one of the main reasons I tuned into the show in the first place. What I don't like is his attitude and his comments since the show began and now after it is over. It's a freaking cheesy ballroom dance competition where the grand prize is a disco ball on a stick, not the Super Bowl.



It seems like John has taken his talking points off the ABC message board until Larry got him with that zinger. More people knew who J. Peterman was than who Sam McCall is.

I completely agree with everyone who said that John's scores were overinflated and Kelly's freestyle being better so the judges had nowhere else to go but up. In fact, I thought Joey should have the biggest beef with the scoring. I think his foxtrot was intentionally marked down so he wouldn't get into the finals, because if Joey had gotten 2 more points and tied with Kelly that night, John would have been going home.

Seriously, before DwtS, John wouldn't have had so much media exposure, even before the finale aired...and we wouldn't know that he plays piano and has a cd coming out. So, John, I loved you and Charlotte, but stop harping about tweaking the show!

Notes from Larry King Live:

Lisa Canning not mentioned even though a clip of her was shown with Bergeron (ha!).

Bergeron not interested until he saw a tape of the Brit version. Saw his role as the host/fan and felt very protective of the dancers when they were facing the judges. Thought show would be fun, but not as big a success as it turned into.

JOH: "Didn't know I couldn't [dance]." First one contacted, but couldn't believe they didn't want him for the host. His wife told him to do it because she thought it would change his life forever, which he agrees has happened.

Pros had to audition, believe the judges did as well.

Charlotte: It was all about the dancing. No pro/am community in England; big pro/am community in U.S. People now recognize her on the street and she loves the nice comments and how much people enjoyed the show.

JOH made good-natured fun of his fan base against that of a soap (his 13 nieces and nephews against several million soap denizens); thought the competition was fair but believes some tweaking needs to be done to the way the voting is conducted. (Example of one time zone in England and four in U.S.)

Holyfield was the big draw at first. Bergeron believes many people who might otherwise not have been interested, tuned in to see Evander. That was also the entrée into the sports bars.

Kelly: costume malfunction was the first time she actually felt the music instead of just counting the beats for the steps. Knew five seconds before they went live the costume wasn't going to hold but as the producers hadn't allowed for the situation, she had no choice but to go on. She was determined to keep competing if she had to hold her top up for the entire dance and just walk through the steps. [Didn't see this before, but Alec was ready to help her grab her boobs when the straps first let loose.]

300 every night in the audience, dress code was strictly enforced.

Hardest part for Kelly was having to be herself instead of hiding behind a role. Hardest part for JOH was the mental part of just keeping going after he knew he was back for another week. What kept him going was: "You jump and you trust the net will be there."

Bergeron: "Foregone conclusion the show will come back, but no formal announcement yet." He's now interested in taking dancing lessons.

JOH may have talked more because King threw to him a lot. Everyone got a chance to say their piece.

Worked with two costume designers, one for each type of dance. Lots of color was desirable. Some control over what they got, for example, they'd cover if someone wanted something covered, and went shorter/longer as requested.

Joey thought he was held to a different standard in the judging. Didn't think all the criticism was constructive.

JOH: CD just released, Peace of our Minds, compositions he's done over the last 25 years; as proud of it as of any work he's ever done.
Alec: school in L.A. hoping to franchise.
Charlotte: writing a book, in talks to appear on Broadway with JOH.
Kelly on GH for another year; feels secure about not being killed off for the moment.
Carrie Ann: choreographing several shows for Vegas.
Joey: I think he's looking for a gig.


Obviously shot before the 20 pounds came off, ziglettospal. Made me think maybe Wendy Malik would be good for the second go 'round. (She did the first commercial in the series.)

OH, I love Wendy Malik. It would be fun to see her on DwtS 2.

There's some John hate going on around here...to me, the person who sounded the most petulant about the results on Larry King was Joey. Oh well, I guess it's payback for the various bits of Kelly hate :-)

I think the Larry King producers should have sat Kelly, as the winner, in the center seat across from Larry. Putting her down on the end took her out of the focus, and may be contributing to the perception of John stealing the interview from her.

Tom Bergeron came across as a lot more interesting/personable on Larry King than he did on DwtS. I appreciate him a lot more now after seeing and hearing him in this interview.

And finally...Larry's suspenders and tie were beyond hideous.

I rooted and voted for John throughout the series, however, after watching Larry King tonight I am so over Mr. O'Hurley. I found him to be quite rude with some of his comments, particularly considering that Kelly & Alec were literally right next to him. He all but came right out and said that they weren't worthy of winning, and I would be fuming if I was Kelly or Alec. Furthermore, he completely dominated the conversation. Joey and Tom got in some good points, but many of the others were left quiet because John talked so much that Larry couldn't address them with questions, and even when he did, John felt the need to answer them instead! I watched Kelly & Alec on Leno the other night and they were both very enigmatic and personable and chatty, but tonight they were very subdued and Kelly's voice sounded very weary and drained. I'm sure John's rude comments were a contributing factor to her demeanor.

I also didn't like John's smug look when the possibility of he and Charlotte doing Broadway was brought up. Save the Broadway shows for Joey Mac!

Speaking of Joey, I thought his comments about the judging were fairly accurate and Carrie-Ann basically backed him up. I felt that his samba was way under-scored as was his foxtrot. Either the judges did have higher expectations for him and judged him on a different level than Kelly & John, or the judges knew they'd have to rank Joey below John to get the latter into the finals.

Larry may have never seen the show before, but I did like some of his questions such as what the judge's criteria were and asking each dancer what his/her hardest dance was to perform.

I just watched this last weekend and wish I'd watched it before DWtS. Strictly Ballroom is very over-the-top, althought it does feature some nice dancing. But I think DwM gives a better perspective without trying to be campy. Watch Vanessa Williams dance, particularly the latin style, then compare with Kelly. Vanessa has great latin moves, looking both classy and sexy at the same time. Kelly to me was just in-your-face skankiness, ala Strictly Ballroom. Charlotte, was quite elegant but I never saw the sultriness that Vanessa brings.

STFU John! I won't let you tarnish my love for J. Peterman! Seriously, Seinfeld was not only the most popular show during its run, I has achieved a cult status. I bet there's just as many people who watch it in syndication in a given area than would watch GH (sorry GH fans).

I mean the Soup Nazi would probably have more 'built-in' fans than Kelly. Seinfeld is like the Simpsons, all the recurring characters are so well known... it's equivalent to having Apu or Moe doing Dwts. And yes, I think Apu and Moe would have more 'built-in' fans than Kelly. Hee.

John, be gracious and don't be a sore loser. DwtS is first-and-foremost a TV show. There is nothing wrong in letting the audience decide, who would watch if all the audience favs are no longer around. I mean, I feel like John just got Tamyra-ed, everyone praised his dancing talent, yet apparently not enough were inspired to vote for him.

While Seinfeld is a cult classic, it has been off the air for years and Peterman was nothing more than a recurring character on it. Kelly, meanwhile, is one of the female leads on a soap opera and is on TV nearly every day of the week. We could also argue as to whether Seinfeld fans would transfer that loyalty to a bit player and vote for him on a TV game show, I kinda wish Seinfeld was still on the air, I'd love to see the snark on an eppy of that show devoted to J. Peterman in a ballroom dance contest. Anyway, my point is that Seinfeld, IMO, isn't the sort of show whose fanbase is going to automatically tune in to another show just because a former cast member is on it, especially this sort of show. Just look at the post-Seinfeld flops of Michael Richards, Jason Alexander and Julia Louis-Dreyfus all of whom played main characters on that show unlike JOH. Meanwhile, the loyalty of soap fans, their willingness to follow their faves to other shows, as well as their rabid support of them is kind of legendary. That makes me think that while GH has fewer overall fans than Seinfeld, a larger percentage of those fans would have been likely to watch DWtS to see Kelly and would've been more predisposed to voting for her than Seinfeld fans for JOH.

While I'm not a Vanessa Williams fan, I would have to agree. I love watching her and Julian do the Paso and the Samba.