I don't watch the show (so don't ask me how I came across your question!), but I know a song called "Let There Be Love," and I wonder if this was the same one ("Let there be you/let there be me/let there be oysters under the sea [lots of other 'let there be' things...] but most of all please/let there be love"). This is a third- or fourth-tier standard that's been kicking around since 1940, and has been recorded by Nat 'King' Cole and others, including his daughter. It does postdate "It Had To Be You" (published 1924), but I've never heard of any plagiarism allegations surrounding it. There's some similarity in terms of the length of the melodic phrases and the intervals between them, but the songs don't seem strikingly similar to me overall. I can think of many closer twins in the Tin Pan Alley literature -- George and Ira Gershwin's very well-known "A Foggy Day" sounds like a direct musical lift from an earlier and much lesser known song called "I've Had My Moments" (which, ironically, was co-written by the lyricist of "It Had To Be You").

Maybe it was the way they arranged it. Or, you could be speaking of a completely different song with the title "Let There Be Love," in which case, please ignore me.

If they got Jessica Simpson to be on this show, ratings would go through the roof. Especially if they dress her as skimpily as they do Kelly Monaco. Love J Simp. I'm unabashedly sayin' it. I know a lot of people hate her, but she would fill the reality star or hot babe slot very very well. These boots are made for walkin', indeed.

The show is way fun, but I think 2 contests a year (12 episodes total) are more than enough.

Question for all you experienced dancers,,,we have talked about the dancers shoes but I have a question about the ladies costumes. Since they are similar to ice skating costumes why don't they use some of the safety features that skaters have built in their costumes to prevent a wardrobe malfunction?

For instance, if a skater has a low cut neckline a flesh color netting is sewn on from where the costume is then upward towards the neck. (Hope this makes sense) Or if there are parts where a lot of flesh is exposed, let's say, between what looks like a 2 piece outfit, the same material would be used to hold it together. But from a few feet away, you can't really see it.

Wouldn't that be safer than having a have a costume come flying off ?( thinking Kelly here) I would certainly feel more secure if it was me dancing in those skimpy costumes. One less thing to worry about on live TV.

Gosh, I hope that made sense.

Want2Sleep I can only speak for the (lower-tier) dancers that our shop sewed for; but some did use lots of Illusion (that's the name of the fabric you're referring to.)

Others didn't like it at all, for whatever reason. Some of the reasons: she didn't think that it really was that invisible, (and I really had to agree with her; even on TV I can usually tell when there's Illusion where there seems to be bare skin; it reflects the lights differently.) Sometimes it just didn't color-match to her skin. Sometimes using it changed the way the whole outfit moved. One woman just hated the way it felt against her skin.

There's also the fact that some designers and seamstresses hate working with it (I did) and will do anything they can to not use it.

Well, as a skater, I have to say that this is more commonly done in freeskating than ice dancing (ballroom dancing's 2d cousin thrice removed). I personally have more body tape and body glue than I care to admit in order to keep some of my dresses in place. And I expect that with a required Latin rhythm this year in ice dance, you'll see a lot more of that kind of thing than usual, even. Word to all that Rabrab said, and add to that that more material just means you get even hotter while you're out there, and I imagine that would be even more true on a ballroom floor than it is on an ice rink, which has the advantage of starting out cold. I'd way rather glue something to myself than put illusion in it and be sweating buckets the whole time I'm out there. (Bringing me to my ballroom dress question-- aren't those Standard dresses hot??)

And Kelly's wardrobe malfunction wasn't really that bad, as someone pointed out upthread, the dress was probably boned enough that it wasn't likely to fall down, strap or not.

Two more ideas for the second show...

MC Hammer and David Hasselhoff

I don't mind the briefness of the costumes because there's been nothing that looks skimpier than what I've seen top level pros wear. I'm not a huge fan of Illusion fabric unless it's very, very well done and I thought Charlotte's foxtrot dress didn't look very good because of it.

sparafucile - yes, same "Let There Be Love". I guess there are a lot of sound-alike songs in the Tin Pan Alley canon - this one's phrasing and melody evoked "It Had To Be You" so much to me, but it's been forever since I've heard 'It Had To Be You', so it could be just me. :) Thanks for addressing my question.

I never realized illusion fabric was used for security purposes. I always thought illusion fabric was how ice dancers got around flesh-exposure restrictions in the costume rules, but security/safety makes a lot of sense. I've seen a lot of ultra bad use of illusion - wrinkled mid-riffs especially, and fabric that didn't come close to matching skin tone.

Another thing to keep in mind is that ballgowns and latin dresses need to look good up close, whereas ice skating dresses are seen from the larger context of the ice rink. That's why a lot of ballroom dancers don't like the extra illusion to add structural integrity to a dress. Using lightweight colored mesh is popular -- like on Charlotte's blue dress from the second episode -- but stretch mesh is a different fabric from illusion. I used to think they were the same until I saw some side-by-side. Anyway, ballgowns are still supposed to look something like an evening gown, which is another reason why you don't see a lot of illusion in them like you do with skating dresses.

For all we know Kelly's strap problem might have come from simply not hooking everything up properly. It happens. Sometimes when you're getting dressed you think you have that hook all the way done, but there's hooks that kind of "click" in and if you don't pull the hook until it clicks then it's not really done. Or maybe the hook or eye wasn't sewn down enough and it popped off.

In an interview either she or Alec mentioned a snap. That could have been the problem right there: snaps don't always hold under that kind of tugging. I try to avoid using them because of it. Also, like with the hooks, you have to really press to get some of the high-powered snaps to really click shut. It's possible that it was only partially snapped and that's why it came apart. Things happen. I was once wearing a dress that had snaps in the leotard crotch and the snaps came apart while I was dancing. Ever since, I either safety pin or sew the crotch shut. It makes it more difficult to get in or out of the dress but it prevents wardrobe malfunctions.

As for the boning, I've not seem many boned ballroom or latin dresses at all. That's not to say they don't exist -- especially now that "corset" styles have become popular -- but it's not the case that dresses are always boned. I wouldn't be suprised if her blue top wasn't boned.

I'm almost afraid to see what they'll put Kelly in this week. I strongly disliked that "Jasmine from Aladdin" dress they had her in for her foxtrot last week. See, there's this concept of not letting the dress overpower the dancer. A skilled pro dancing in a professional event would make that "Jasmine" dress look great, but put it on a beginner and it looks too much like "playing dress up." Beginners tend to wear simpler dresses for this reason.

Well, at the very least the Standards and Practices person from the network comes by to make sure that Kelly's pasties and g-strings, I mean "gowns," cover enough square footage to pass muster and that the cameras avoid getting too close when she's working it like the rent is due.

ITA - even though Kelly's dresses are revealing, they overpower her. Too busy. There's more dress than Kelly. I think the costume department is working from the wrong philosophy - more dress swooshing around will hide her limitations. Limitations meaning some sluggish leg work and lack of finish in her movements. I think the heavy-handed costuming disguises how energetic and athletic she really is out there.

From what I read, ballroom gowns tend toward the flashy anyway because with all the couples on the floor at the same time during competitions, every little bit helps to get the judges to notice you and not the other couple dancing right next to you.

I think the costumers went a little overboard in the sequin and beading department because I agree that Kelly's costumes (especially her paso), seem to overpower her because she's so short. I really disliked her Jive outfit for that same reason. Too much drape.

Thank you all for the very informed answers about using the illusion fabric and other things. I love finding out this kind of stuff !!


It wasn't just Kelly's strap I was worried about, her dresses (can we call them that?) are very brief and if I was a novice dancer , they would scare the heck out of me. Something would come flying out,,,,,thank goodness they have glue and tape!

Agree. This is also why I dislike illusion fabric. It does get hot, and when you are sweaty most fabric get sticky and its particularly annoying on your midriff since there is a lot body movement there.

I also dislike the bunching, specifically on the side when you have your hip cocked up high. These women are incredibly flexible, and the more flexibility the more bunching you'll get. It's kinda a pet peeve, but I think the bunching actually detracts from the line you are trying to cut with your body extension. So for me, I prefer something closer to a two-piece number.

Overall, I think the costumes are great. I prefer a lot of Kelly's latin costumes over some of Ashly's full dress numbers for use in competition for the reasons above. The only thing I've disliked is the sometimes excessive draping of fabric -- see Kelly's Jive costume, because I agree, it does overwhelm and distract from the movement.

That and the garish use of feathers in Charlotte's Samba costume, yikes!
Color use is quite fantastic though.

That's true, especially as you're making your way up the ranks. In most ballroom competitions, couples are trying to survive prelims, quarters, semis, etc. competing side by side with other couples, and anything to draw attention to get the judges to watch *you* is good. Hence, the incredible use of yellow even when it's a totally unflattering color on so many people. It's just the color that draws the eye the most.

Using quite so much beading and spangles on the costumes on the show is probably not really necessary. All the dancers are already competing in solo spotlight dance format. It's not like the judges aren't going to be watching them.

Someone upthread mentioned the three dancesport programs currently making the rounds on PBS stations. What struck me about the Latin costumes is they're even skimpier than the ones we're seeing on DwtS. I swear one woman was wearing a gold lame bathing suit with a black cover-up that barely stayed on her while she gyrated. Another costume seemed to be orange-dyed dish mops sewn to a foundation garment. (When the dancer twirled, the costume looked like Dorothy Hammil's hair when she did a fast spin.) A third looked like a longline, gold lame girdle with iridescent orange/pink ruffles around the bottom, paired with a gold lame halter top. I found many of them to be outré and distracting from the performances. But it convinced me the costumers on DwtS are giving us an accurate representation of costuming in the dancesport world. I'm sure they'll sleep better tonight having received my approbation. LOL.

And here was a twist: in the ballroom competition program, one of the favored couples was eliminated because a judge took exception to the woman's dress. He said portions of it were too flesh colored, which he found distracting as well as against the rules. Have any of our dance-experienced posters come up against that?


ETA: For those in SoCal (or who can received KOCE or who want to check their local PBS stations), here's the upcoming broadcast info for the programs:

International DanceSport World Championships
World Latin Championship
Dancers vie the for World Latin Championship. (Germany, taped October 2004)
Saturday, July 16, 10:00 PM

International DanceSport World Championships
World Standard Championship
Dancers vie for the World Standard title in Lithuania. (Taped October 2004)
Saturday, July 16, 11:00 PM

International DanceSport World Championships
World Ten Dance Championship
Dancers vie for the World Ten Dance Championship. (Australia, taped December 2004)
Sunday, July 17, 12:00 AM

I liked the one shot at the Australian facility the best: it has a camera on tracks that can follow a couple from one end of the dance floor to the other, giving great shots of the footwork.

These shows go back a number of years, and what is interesting is that a reaction against some of these costumes is emerging in parts of the dancesport domain. The Interntional Dancesport federation has new costume rules apply to latin which prohibits certain things like thongs, men's shirts open all the way to the navel, etc. These rules are not universally observed (meaning there are other federations, thouogh the IDSF is very powerful), but clearly there is some pause about the costumes.

There are several different competition sanctioning bodies out there, and so there are several sets of rules floating around. I don't know which competition you saw, so it depends on who sanctioned it...anyway, in the International DanceSport Federation (IDSF) system, there are definitely rules about what parts of the lady's body must be covered and about the use of flesh-colored fabric. It's hard to legislate taste...apparantly in Europe there was starting to be a problem with women wearing thongs or tangas under their costume rather than dance trunks or having their dresses built on leotard bases. And there was also an issue of women having dresses made completely of flesh-colored fabric so as to simulate nudity -- the women would be in the flesh-colored fabric with rhinestones and fringe strategically placed, it was considered extremely tacky.

So anyway, I've never had it happen to me, because I don't dance Latin style. That said, there are also rules for Standard (Ballroom) style. For instance, that blue dress with the mesh inserts that Charlotte wore for her Waltz with John the second week is borderline illegal. It would depend on how low the mesh inserts actually came. Kelly's dresses, while really scary looking, still have looked legal for Latin. However, her "Jasmine from Aladdin" dress would have been illegal for Standard because bare midriffs are not allowed in Standard. Of course, she was really dancing Smooth (and Pro/Am at that), so another sanctioning body's set of rules comes into play...it gets confusing and competitors have to be careful. To make matters even more confusing, competition organizers are allowed to set their own rules, so long as their rules are not less restrictive than the sanctioning body's rules. Competitions held in Utah are notorius for having very strict rules. For instance, no halter top styles are allowed for ladies, and if the ladies don't have sleeves then the straps going over their shoulders must be at least one inch wide.

The costumer for the ladies for DwtS is Maria McGill/Designs to Shine. Her business is to make dancesport costumes, she's not a show-biz costumer. She also does ice dance costumes (most notably for the current world champions). The men's costumer is LeNique, a dancesport tailor. DwtS went with "the real thing" rather than trying to get some Hollywood costume shop to deal with it since the demands of dancesport costuming are pretty rigorous when it comes to fit etc.

ETA: And yet we still have Kelly popping out of her dresses. I was told that Designs to Shine isn't custom-making the dresses for DwtS, that they are off-the-rack, so perhaps that's why Kelly is having some problems. Most women in dancesport who are as thin and fit as Kelly are quite small-breasted, and so the dresses are built with lots of fake padding to make the women look like they've got something. Kelly has it naturally (or whatever), and to fit and support her real shape requires different design and execution than faking it. It's easier to fake it -- the real breasts don't bounce around, and the fakey bits are securely sewn into the dress :-)

For those wondering what they could have been offered that could have been worse than "Eye of the Tiger" or that non-paso "Bambaleo" that Ashly and Alec ended up choosing these songs to perform to... Alec said that there were no choices offered this week, they were told "this is the song you are dancing to". He also said because their's was a non-paso song, he was forced to choreograph a paso/samba hybrid, as most have noticed.

I love Kelly & Alec, but the title Burntcrow gave to their Paso on his recap cracked me up:
"Bimboleeeeyo….Bimboleya!" Hee-hee. He calls them "team skin", great snark.

I've really enjoyed reading all of your thoughts on this show. Surprisingly, I am going to miss it when it is over. Does anyone know if they plan to run repeats? I missed the first episode the first time around.

With all this talk of costumes, I have "Copacabana" playing in my head. "Dress cut down to there..."

Thanks for the insight about the use/nonuse of the "flesh-colored" body panels. It would seem so natural to use it. In the "Dance with Me" movie, one of the professional dancers in the Latin group had a very large chest and had a lot of dangly things that whipped around when she moved. I"m surprised she doesn't have tons of bruises on her head.


I also think they disguise how bad her footwork is by drawing the attention elsewhere. The foxtrot dress hid her feet, but her footwork wasn't great (too much other work). Although, the footwork may have been good, but her dress hindered her movements.

If ABC is going to let one of their daytime people be on this program, they should also allow them not to have to work during this time period. Couldn't her character go on a 2-month safari or something?

ETA: quote tags to give credit where credit is due.

Word to all the Russ Tamblyn love from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers! I'm now going to go rent West Side Story which I haven't seen in many years and thus can't remember him.

How about three sets of ex-spouses competing against one another?

For the first I nominate Jeff Goldblum and Geena Davis. He is suprisingly graceful and cat like and she is statuesque enough even for Bruno.

Others?

Parker Stevenson/Kirstie Alley
Melanie Griffith/Don Johnson
Alec Baldwin/Kim Bassinger
Mickey Rourke/Carrie Otis

Might make for some interesting competition!

Interesting list. But one complication with it is that it's too much A/B list movie star (Basinger, Baldwin, Davis) and not enough D list desperation (Trista, Peterman, Joey MacIntyre).

How about these suggestions:

Reality/talk show star: Kelly Ripa
Aging model: Frederique
Former teen idol: Deborah Gibson
ABC soap opera star: Cameron Mathison
Sports figure: Charles Barkley
Character actor: the brother from Everybody Loves Raymond

I guess my list isn't too much desperation either. :)

I think that Regis would be pretty good in the older man slot. And, as much as they've discussed the show on "Live with Regis and Kelly," I think that she'd jump at the chance.

I want Linda Evangelista in the aging model slot. Ooooh! I know. Isabella Rossellini.

I give some of the credit for how enjayable this show has been to the announcer and to the director. That particular British accent of the announcer just somehow sets the tone for the festivities to get off to a great start and then the camera shots really deliver all the anticipated oomph.

I wonder if they work out all the camera angles during dress rehearsal and what the background of the show's director is. Does this person have experience with dance? Because I think the camera work is fantastic and is an important contributing factor to making this show such a success.

Also, while I do hope that John O'Hurley is offered a job hosting future seasons, I hope it will be only one of many and that it gets lost in the shuffle. I hope he is inundated with offers following this show. Sitcoms, dramas, the big screen. With John as the STAR. Because I can't get enough of John O'Hurley.

I've even gone back to rewatch all of his performances. Both for the dancing and just to enjoy his company. I think John toned down the mugging last week and was maybe trying to channel it into a subtler characterization for the dance. Well, the heck with subtlety and nuance. I need my fix. That playful abandon seen in his earlier mugging-mode is what I crave. But I'll settle for O'Hurley any way he chooses to deliver it. And like it!

It would be so wonderful if John were to go on to really big success. And Joey McIntyre, too. I want to see more of both of them. Broadway should already be knocking on Joey's door. In fact, the premise of this show would, IMO, make a terrific book for a Broadway musical. And Joey will probably also be getting a lot of television offers. Both he and John are so infinitely interesting and pleasing to look at. Hope John keeps losing maybe 15-20 more pounds to achieve maximum fitness. Not that he's not perfect already, of course.

Or what about if they have to compete with each other? They would have to learn from an expert and then carry it out on camera with each other....
Definitely would add "drama" to the event! (BTW, really just joking with this.....I like seeing the pros up there)

I think that is a really interesting concept. They could even choose all of the contestants for a particular season according to a six-degrees-of-separation theme.

I would tune in just to see Carre Otis beat down that asshole wife abusing Mickey Rourke.

I'm going to be a little sad when the show ends tomorrow. I can't believe they can't stretch it out to a 90 minute or 2 hour finale.

Not likely, Regis & Kelly shoots in New York. Kelly's schedule is too crazy with the combination of "Live" and "Hope and Faith" anyway (a friend of mine works on "Live" so they know her schedule pretty well).

I hope when "Dancing with the Stars" ends its run this week that ABC will rerun it from the beginning. I never saw the first 2 episodes and would like to watch "Dancing" from the beginning. Anybody else

I would like to see all the contestants this season in a special exhibition similar to what figure skaters do with DISNEY fairy tales, ABC is Disney right?

Though I'm not a super-big fan of Disney, they can easily milk this cow and produce a 1-hr ballroom dancing themed adaptation where our celebs and pros just dance to some of Disney's classics:

Charlotte & John: Sleeping Beauty
Kelly & Alec: Alladin; Little Mermaid
Ashly & Joey: Snow White; Pocahantas
Rachel & Jonathan: Cinderella
Edyta & Evander: Beauty & the Beast; Hunchback of Notre Dame Sorry Evander, this is more because you can't move around well, not that you're not a cutie.
Trista & Louis: 101 Dalmations; Lion King Trista can be Cruella DeVil; Louis is perfect for Simba, and Trista can play Timon with her incesant grin!

Me too. I've snagged all the dances themselves online, but don't have any of the good, behind-the-scenes stuff. I wish they'd rerun all 6 hours back to back one weekend.

Knowing ABC, they probably won't. Unfortunately, right now I don't have dual VCRs to record my tape. In fact, the main VCR broke this week. At least we have another one!

This is all ABC has on their website about tomorrow night's show:


I wonder what they mean by "several rounds." Will the couples have learned 3 dances in one week? Or do they maybe redance something from a previous episode?

Maybe John O'Hurley can come back with his boobalicious ex-wife, Eva LaRue (AKA Chesty LaRue). She certainly fits the C or D list requirement, and she did What's My Line or whatever that was O'Hurley was hosting before. To Tell the Truth? I can't remember.

I'm also wondering about ex-ice skaters Rebecca Herbst and Kristian "Skeletor" Alfonso and whether their skating pasts would make them primed and ready to fill the soap star slot.

In the category of ex-soap stars with real dancing talent, Finola Hughes and Susan Mizner come to mind. Hughes now hosts something on the style network, and Mizner was in Chicago the movie. I don't think either of them was into ballroom, so it might be cool to see how they adapted Cats and FosseFosseFosse moves into ballroom.

I'm snickering considering Jennifer Beals doing it and showing once and for all why they needed a dance stand-in for Flashdance.

Drew Carey seems to think he can dance. I nominate him for the First Out role.

It occurs to me that the "formula" may be much simpler than what we're playing with. It could very easily be:
one swoon-worthy older man
one swoon-worthy younger man
one non-Caucasian man
one "elegant" (older) woman
one "suxy" (young) woman
one "wholesome" woman.

Any of the women could also be non-Caucasian.

That covers pretty much all the demographic categories out there.

According to Alec, each of the eliminated couples will be doing 30 seconds of their favorite dance.

Also, he and Kelly will be doing the Samba in addition to the freestyle dance.

Do I want to know the definition of freestyle here?

Freestyle in dancing usually means non-choreographed, lead-and-follow dancing. The music plays and they really just dance. I wonder if that will really happen or if they'll just dance what they can of their old routine.

Oh, and about "suxy." Was it just Bruno's accent, or did he really mean a combination of sucky and sexy? 'Cause that would precisely describe Kelly's dancing: it sucks, but she's still sexy doing it. Feh.

I believe he was going for sultry and sexy.

I agree, nanberry. He garbled two words together, and sultry and sexy would do it.

For the elegant older woman and the swoon worthy older man, could we get Spy Mommy and Daddy? Pretty please? They already work for ABC. (For non-Alias fans in the thread-Spy Mommy and Daddy are Lena Olin and Victor Garber). And Victor Garber is a trained Broadway dancer. And those two are sexy as hell and have more chemistry than just about any hot young couple on TV.

From what I gather from watching the other series (Aussie and British) and what Alec said, their routine is choreographed, but they can pretty much do what they want as far as steps. There won't be any comments regarding "rules".

I think Victor Garber would be absolutely fantasic for this show.

Good, John & Charlotte are dancing the quickstep. That should be really nice to see again. I'd like to see a little more sexy (suxy) from them, though. They're both very classy people and the standards are definitely their forte, but they should mix it up during their free dance and give the audience a little bit of a show.

Trista & Louis-Rumba (ha!)
Evander and Edyta-Cha cha
Jonathan & Rachel-waltz
Joey & Ashly-Jive

I think they're better off doing the tango as I think the judges a bit on the waltz overall though they seemed to be the only team that got over 20 for it.



On Access Hollywood, he claims he knew what he was saying but admitted that "suxy" (2005's reality TV It Word!) is a hybrid of sexy and sultry.

So as I understand it -- we, the audience, are now out of the loop for tonight's finale. We will be non-participant observers as far as providing any input concerning the dancers' performances. All of the evaluation will, therefore, be in the hands of the judges. All hail Bruno!

Yes! In total agreement here.


Same here. I’ve seen enough of Katie Couric (and Diane Sawyer) to last me a lifetime & beyond. Blech.


For me, that’s the beauty of this show. I was hesitant beforehand because they said Evander had his own dance studio…and I was afraid he’d be too good heading into this. Guess that wasn’t a real problem, was it? Heh. Sorry, Evander, I do love you! And I figured Joey’s NKOTB ‘dancing’ and choreography might benefit him, but that seemed to not be a problem, either.

And various posters suggested these folks:

To which I say, UGGGH!!!!! Please, God, no. Just, no.


Oh, me too!! Both handsome, classy guys who have great bods & great posture! Niiiiiiiice.


Hey, I like that suggestion! Could be really fun!


Hee!!! He’d be awesome.


Hee! I thought you meant Antonio Banderas (with wifey Melanie Griffith). Wasn’t he in Spy Kids? I bet they’d be fabulous!

I believe they combine the fan vote from last week with the judges' vote from this week. If they don't change the voting system, and award 2 points for first place and 1 point for second place, then as pointed out earlier in the thread, whoever won the fan vote from last week will win the competition even if s/he loses the judges' vote. Since the fan vote is the tiebreaker.

For next season, they really need to modify the scoring system. I'm not exactly sure how, but something needs to be done.

Based on the ratings the show has received (and legions of complaints about the scoring system), I wouldn't be surprised if ABC went to the American Idol format- performances one night for an hour, and a results show the following night for 30 minutes. I do think it would be important, though, for the judges' ratings to factor into the decision (as opposed to AI).