John makes an interesting observation in that article -- that his biggest competition is Alec, because he has to make his own dances look as good as the pro does. I think he's onto something; in thinking back, I find that I was comparing the male celebrities to each other and also to the male pros, (same for the women) rather than directly comparing, say, John to Kelly at any given time.

I look to the pros to show me what it -should- look like, and then measure the celebs against that standard. I'd be hard put to say that Joey was better than Kelly in the jive, but Joey was closer to the standard that the male pros set than Kelly was to the female pros.

He claims Italy as his homeland but apparently the Iowa Running Bears, the high school football team for which he was the winning quarterback and which he led to the state championship is insisting otherwise.

I just want to point one thing out...a lot of people don't realize that there are also amateur ballroom competitions, and that the top amateurs are as good as (or in some cases better than) the professionals. Anyway...

I don't see much change happening. What rules would you want changed?

Allow lifts in pro comps? That's banned for a reason: when you have up to 16 couples dancing on the floor at once you do not want lifts because they pose a danger to the other couples.

Cut slack to fundamental technique issues like bad posture so as to reward personality and style? Won't happen...good posture (and other habits of good technique) enables the kind of full and smooth movement that makes high-level dancing what it is. Shoulders like Joey's were in the first few weeks impede the ability to lead (or follow if those shoulders are on the lady). And I don't see any street edginess in Kelly. Sure, her hair is in her face and she can writhe pretty well, but there's a lot of really beautiful and sexy women Latin dancers out there who show personality and individuality AND amazing technique. I don't like the implication that technique squelches individuality and style, because it's simply not true. That's like saying decent spelling and good grammar impede creativity and self-expression in writing.

Have more solo dancing in pro comps? Possibly, but only if it means getting more comps on TV. And still, due to time constraints, it's really only possible in smaller "made-for-TV" events or with just the finalists. A pro competition might start with as few as three couples or as many as three hundred. How things usually work is that all the dancers dance a set of the five competitive dances, then up to half the people are cut. The rest go on to the next round about 20 minutes to an hour later, where about half are cut. So you'll see octo-finals of about 48 couples, quarter-finals of about 24 couples, semi-finals of 12, and ideally a final of six couples. That's a lot of dancing, and showing solos only becomes practical once the field is winnowed down to the finalists. I personally wouldn't want to see ballroom dance turned into ice dancing...ice dancing is basically a solo showdance competition where the couple picks their own music and choreographs a routine specifically to that music. That kind of thing already exists in both amateur and professional ballroom dancing, but it's not where the action is. The real meat of competitive ballroom dancing are the group events where the dancers compete head to head, sharing the floor, having to navigate on the fly, not knowing what music will be played (but at least knowing it will be a rumba, or a waltz). The judges can make direct comparisons and rank the couples rather than relying on a scoring system like Code of Points to place people.

I just hope John doesn't overdo the mugging on the Paso Doble - that would ruin the dance for me. However, I have a horrible feeling he's going to go for over the top.

I was watching the VW practice again and Jonathan's hold is amazing. When they are having the "collision" with John and Charlotte and Rachel is goofing around, Jonathan is maintaining his hold and his forearms are showing some incredible strength.

I like Joey and he is trying really hard to get the moves right - I am sure he didn't take 11 years of ballet like Rachel! But I don't think he is in the position to "dumb down" ballroom dancing.

I think his partner, though very cute and talented, maybe doesn't know how to choreograph best for dancing with a novice, and tries to be more flashy than technically correct - and Joey seems to agree. I don't mind that on this show (yes I'm one of the ignorant masses too!). I am sure it won't affect the future of real ballroom dancing.

I always kind of wish that this was possible for ice dance, but it's patently not for the Free Dance (music completely optional as long as it has a beat) or the Original Dance (music optional within a set rhythm or set of rhythms). Even in Compulsories (steps, patterns, and music set by the rulebook, not the skaters) it would be impractical to have more than two couples on the ice at the time because of the way the patterns are laid out. Ah well.

Although if you would like to see head-to-head combat in ice dance, the warmup or practice session of an elite level compulsory is fun, with everyone trying to run everyone else off their patterns. Bwah.

I'm definitely not a ballroom expert, but I don't see DWtS changing the sport's rules, either. I guess maybe if getting competitions on TV was a huge priority it might, but I don't know that it is unless that would somehow help them get into the Olympics. (Which, I must say, would be totally awesome, I'd love to see DanceSport in the Olympics!) I think DWtS will just raise the level of interest in the sport as it is, or in recreational participation. Figure skating and gymnastics both have seen changes in their competition formats to cater more to an uneducated audience, but I think (it's just a theory) that this is because those sports both had large TV audiences and popular appeal and started to lose it. Ballroom doesn't have that history (that I know of), and so has nothing to lose in keeping their traditional rules.

Also I think the reaction to the what's popular or acceptable on DWtS is very individual. Maybe some people don't care about Joey's posture, but some other people will (I know I do!) and none of them have to be trained in ballroom. It all depends on what you're looking for when you're watching it, but that we can all love its cheeziness just reinforces its awesomeness.

Your post seems to be more concerned with whether ballroom competitors are likely to play to the audience more in the future, so I'll stick with that question.

Ballroom (amateur and professional) has a very well-established environment, and I don't think that would budge much based on one TV show. ziglettospal is right on target to say that audience-appealing personality and "style" will never win against superior technique in a real ballroom comp. Not only is superior technique necessary for superior dancing, but the audience in the world of high-level ballroom consists of primarily of people who can endlessly discuss the minutest points of how bent a man's knee should be, or whether a lady should turn her head to the right in a certain figure under certain circumstances. Any dancer who uses flashy moves without decent technique would be ignored (if not ridiculed) for employing "tricks" and "gimmicks". Joey might have a great story to tell, but he has to use the language that the audience appreciates, and bad posture is one of ballroom's cardinal sins.

Let me also reiterate that Kelly is no great shakes (pun intended) compared to most Latin girls. They all have great bodies, skimpy costumes, and in-your-face sensuality, and what Kelly has been showing is QUITE conventional in Latin (except for her technique, which is of course much worse since she hasn't spent years working on it).

ziglettospal and tanz15: Thanks so much for all the information. It's really nice to get an insider's look into the dance world and your posts are fascinating to read. Thanks again.

(Wow, EatShootLeave, the Olympics? That would be wonderful!)

Some experimentation is already being tried in dancesport, largely for TV's sake (and to sell the International Olympic Committee on the idea that dancesport can be appreciated by non-dancing spectators).

For instance, the International Dancesport Federation has tried events where the finalists dance some of the final dances alone on the floor, rather than dancing all of them with everyone on the floor at once.


This format has been used for the finals of IDSF World Cup events for a few years, and also for some televised world championships.

If you are really interested, here is a page which describes what the solo dances are for this year and how finals will be conducted.......finals formats

Also, the IDSF has experimented with open marking in which the dancers' marks are shown to the entire audience after each dance, ala skating. It's somewhat controversial because there are five dances in a final, and there's a fear that some judges will slowly get influenced over the course of all five by how the other judges are marking in the early dances. Still, in finals where I have seen open marking take place, the audience definitely gets into it.

As for Joey's posture vs. his exuberance, at the highest levels you get both. What often separates couples at the highest level, where everyone is or should be technically accomplished and not slouching, is the accumulation of little things--and exuberance can count.

At lower levels (which really don't draw spectators except friends and family), judges often have to choose between couples doing different things poorly and some things well, and judges will tell you often it's six of one, half dozen of the other, so to speak.

teora: Do you think the International Olympic Committee will accept the huge ratings of this show (as well as apparently others like it in other countries) as sufficient validation for the inclusion of dancesport?

If so, would it then be a time-consuming and very prolonged process before dancers were to actually appear alongside the other competitors?

(Thanking you in advance)

We are keeping a veeeeeery tenuous hold on the topic, y'all. Please make sure your post relates back to the show, and isn't just about ballroom dancing as a whole. Not that ballroom dancing as a whole isn't an interesting topic, because it is. Thanks!

Probably not, in my opinion. This show is different from dancesport in a lot of ways, and I think a lot of its popularity is attributable to those differences. People watch because they like the celebrities in their other roles, because they want to see someone fall on their butt or out of their top (I think this is part of the draw of figure skating, actually), because they want to see if their vote "helped" pick the winner - none of these would be factors in Olympic dancesport. (Well, falls would still be possible, but they don't happen much.)

That said, the show could have a more subtle positive effect on the IOC. If it actually helps get other dancesport events on TV, and gets people more familiar with it as a real competitive sport, and not just some wacko subculture of guys with shaved chests and women with eyelash extensions, then maybe in the longer run, it could give dancesport more credibility.

But there are a lot of other pressures on the Olympics. They are already really too big, and it's harder to cut an existing sport than to decline to add a new one. I don't see dancesport being added any time soon.

I agree with Tango Lady that the success of this show isn't going to directly make or break dancesport's standings with the IOC. And, I would love to show the people who love DwtS a regulation dance competition and see if they're still interested. Possibly not -- the drama etc. isn't so readily apparent to new watchers. DwtS works because they got somewhat recognizable stars to do it. If they had just pulled people like me and Tango Lady and put us on TV, I'd bet that no one would really care. It will be interesting to see how "Ballroom Boot Camp" does, since it supposedly starts with newbies who are also nobodies.

Getting back to the show: I love John but I too worry about the Paso Doble. He could get way too hammy and turn people off.

I think Alec & Kelly's Paso Doble might end up looking the best of all the dances: the Latin dances are Alec's specialty, so you know he can work up a good one for Kelly. Plus in the Paso the focus is on the man. I also found Paso to be the easiest dance to get started in when it came to Latin because it didn't have all the hip motion that Cha Cha, Rumba, and Samba have. It's basically a lot of walking around and stamping of feet. That said, Kelly has seemed at a loss for what to do with her arms, and big sweeping arm shapes are also part of the Paso. Kelly can't get by on just shaking her butt, because butt shaking is not part of the Paso. Well, we'll have to wait and see. Maybe between Kelly's stiltedness and John's hamming it up, Joey will sneak by and come out on top after all. But I kind of doubt it. I'm resigned to the fate of Kelly winning it all no matter what. (Part of me hopes I'm wrong though!!!!!)

In the case of Tom and Kym, as pointed out in this article: "Williams spent 30 hours a week for 16 weeks training to master ballroom dancing routines with Johnson." The Australian version is 11 weeks long (10 episodes, with a break when the contestants are wittled down to 5).

The British version also resulted in coupling, and it appears that it was just a matter of time for the Australian version. In this article, Sonia Kruger (Lisa Canning's counterpart) foreshadows the possibility of hookups.

Maybe the same would happen on the US version if the season were extended to 10 weeks. 30 hours per week x 10 weeks = 300 hours spent on an all-absorbing, physically intimate project with someone who's probably quite attractive (celebs and dance pros generally are). Wholesome personality or not, 10 weeks of body contact can knock anybody for a loop.

In the latest TV Guide, there was some talk about how in the finals, the couples will be allowed to do the "previously forbidden lift" or something like that. If she is in the finals, I think this will favor Kelly immensely. Alec is strong enough to lift her, and she is very small. I don't imagine the fat and out of shape Peterman will be able to lift Charlotte, nor do I see the skinny Joey being able to lift Ashley, despite her small size. You have to be very strong to lift a woman over your head and move.

There are so many other things going on with the Olympics these days, which most people think have come to include too many sports already, so that I doubt that the popularity of DWTS alone would make a big enough difference...

They did a lift in the Viennese Waltz.

I don't remember exactly, but I thought that was just a "pick up off her feet and spin" lift. From the way the TV Guide makes it sound, they make it sound like a dangerous, over the head, lift. Like in figure skating when they do those one handed lifts. I don't see Peterman being able to do that.

I don't think anybody but one of the male pros would be able to do something like that. So whoever said that this gives Kelly a decided advantage is probably right.

No, I don't think that Joey Mac will have any effect on ballroom dance either. When I said he was "dumbing down" I was thinking specifically of a few weeks back when he pressured Ashly to emphasize showmanship over technique. At least, that's the way it looked to me. Remember when they were shown arguing and Ashly looked frustrated and like she'd maybe been crying? That bugged me. Maybe Ashly isn't as good at choreography as Charlotte or Alec, but she certainly knows a lot more about it than Joey and he owes her a certain amount of respect and credit for that. Their jive routine that week was a hit with the audience but it was sloppily executed and somewhat schizophrenic in theme. A good performance, and what everybody should be aiming for, should feature both audience appeal and technical excellence (though obviously to the knowledgeable among us, technique is thrilling in itself).

It felt like Joey kind of just gave up on the technique and started simply going for the audience vote.

I doubt anyone will be doing anything like that, not even Alec & Kelly. Kelly doesn't have the core torso strength or organization to pull it off. Also, lifts like that are only done in one type of competition, called "Theater Arts." It takes more than strength on the part of the man to do these, it takes training and experience on the part of both partners, and I don't know that Alec has ever actually done theater arts anyway. I think the lifts you see will be the types of things done last week in the Viennese Waltz. More like the ice dancing lifts than the pairs skating lifts.

I don't know what the big deal is about lifts anyway. I know I'm going to sound like "Federation President Barry Fief" from "Strictly Ballroom," but except in Theater Arts lifts are just a bunch of flashy trash that has nothing to do with actual ballroom or latin style partner dancing. You know they're just hyping them so that the general public will go "woooooooo" and/or tune in for the danger aspect. Oh well, I'm just a crumudgeon.

Maybe they will go whole hog and do them and we can see Kelly fall on her butt. That would be amusing.

Ok, I just have to say it...

Am I the only one to think that maybe Kelly's "wardrobe malfunction" was planned? I started to wonder when Kelly would "hold up" the costume at times, then take her hand away. As a previous post stated, the thing to do is to tape or glue the costume for security. I could be wrong (and I don't care enough to go back and watch the tape again!) but it didn't look like her top was slipping down as much as it probably should have, considering the twins.

Whether accidental or "accidentally" on purpose, I'm sure it took the judges' attention away from Kelly's feet! For some reason, the idea just makes the whole thing just that more deliciously cheesy...

I don't think it was planned at all.

Obviously, you haven't seen what a real wardrobe malfunction looks like! This was definitely faked. Real wardrobe malfunctions ends with one breast exposed, with the exposed breast donning a nipple broche.

I was just watching Dance with Me with Vanessa Williams. They showed a dance competition with the (fruity) rumba, cha cha, paso doble, and samba. She and her partner won, but they definitely weren't better than the "real" dancers. It was good to see how those dances in particular should be done. They also showed a quick step that was much more like John & Charlotte's than Joey & Ashly's. It probably had to do with the music overall.

If you look at the background dancers in that movie, Alec and Edyta were in there.

I just rented Strictly Ballroom and now I guess I'll have to add Dance with Me to the list.

Regarding Kelly's wardrobe malfunction, as a former costumer, I can say that that bodice was probably boned and interfaced to the point that it was NOT going to fall down.

The danger was not that it would drop, but that it would twist to one side or the other during all the shaking. A properly made, performance-quality strapless (yes, I know that it had a string to go around her neck, it still was functionally a strapless) top like that can stand up on it's own, empty.

Kelly wasn't holding it up, she was checking that it was still centered and that she hadn't popped out to one side.

I agree, the flashy lifts take away from the core of what we're supposed to be seeing, which is dancing.

And whilst I would be incredibly amused at Kelly falling down, it would only get more public support rallying around her. We're already hearing the victory-over-adversity crap regarding her hearing loss and wardrobe malfunction. If she fell down and got back up, why, that would be typical Olympic type triumph-over-tragedy material.

Which would make sense since most of the time she was holding it was when she was spinning (minus the time when the strap came down after the split. I think she was afraid of the weight of the strap or it getting caught on something like Alec's hands).

I'm all for a lift like what they did in the VW, but not the DanceFever/pairs skating lifts.

I totally agree. I don't care how tiny Kelly is, she wouldn't know how to go into the lift (i.e. it would a total deadweight lift on Alec's part), she wouldn't know how to hold and balance the lift once she was there, and she wouldn't know how to exit it, let alone how to coordinate all of that with her partner. Besides being a mess, it would just be incredibly dangerous.

I'm almost sorry that Trista is gone. Now that's one ass I could get excited about hitting the floor.

ITA on the lifts, also. There's no way Alec could get Kelly into a stable overhead lift, unless she has some kind of experience no one's heard about. Being lifted (even ice dance-type lifts) requires a lot of strength and technique on the woman's part as well as the man's. A floppy girl is just dead weight to a guy. I think the lifts will come out about even. Alec may be able to get Kelly into a lift, but he can't make her look pretty while she's there.

It may have been posted in this thread or on another board (if it was here, sorry for the repeat), but Alec did a Q&A on a Kelly fan site and said that the strap initially popped during the countdown just before they went on. They didn't have time to fix it so they went ahead and danced. Here is the link to the Q&A (the answer is somewhere on that page, have to scroll):

I'm the link

From what it looked like, only one of the straps (or part of the strap?) was broken at first. I think the other one went midway through (probably during that split). Maybe she started grabbing at it once that happened. Or maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think it was planned.

Although, all that hoisting was distracting - the person I was watching with screamed "For the love of God, Kelly, they aren't GOING ANYWHERE".

Speaking of people falling on their asses, though, I just realized how...amazing(?)...it is that none of the "stars" have done so yet. There have been a few trips here and there but no one's gone out yet. Good on them.

Despite those training tapes of Rachel flailling all over the place, it really takes a lot to fall in ballroom dancing. This is probably why it's not as exciting to the general public as figure skating is. I think that's why the powers that be on DwtS said they would allow lifts :-) :-)

For me? The more mugging the better! I'd be seriously disappointed if he toned it down.

And please also consider The Tango Lesson. You will not be disappointed. No kidding. It is a stunningly wonderful film! (written and directed by Sally Potter)

I must be the only person who watches figure skating hoping they DON'T fall. I am actually in it for the performances. It's the same with dancing. I never wanted to see the PBS competitions to feature the big 'agony of defeat' moment. I was always in it to sit there going 'look at them GO!'

And I always found the cha-cha kind of mystifying. When you get into the advanced realms that whole 'one-two-cha-cha-cha' thing seems to go out the window or, at least, gets veiled in far more complex foot movements. I often found myself trying to figure it all out... while enjoying how fierce that dance was nonetheless.

In regards to John and the paso doble... is there such a thing as too much mugging for that dance? It always seemed to be the most dramatic of the dances so some advanced mugging would fit right in.

ABC knows how great DWtS does even in repeats so we'll see that wardrobe malfunction again tonight before the new show airs. They should bring it back in the fall instead of "Super Nanny"! I for one don't think Kelly was faking it, and the pulling at the bodice was distracting, but not unusual. I know that I am constantly tugging at my bra even if it's secure. Maybe that costume wasn't that comfortable to wear...at least, it didn't seem so to me.

New interview with JOH in TV Guide. I think he needs to watch it a little, he could come across as whiney.

The bit about Alec being the toughest competition because the male professional dancers know what they're doing and can lead while the male stars have to be taught how to lead did give me pause.

After all, there's only one male professional dancer left as opposed to two male stars. It seems that being taught how to lead hasn't hurt them that much overall.

I did get a giggle out of his 'dangling the wrong carrot' comment. That was funny.

I think posters are wildly overestimating the impact of Kelly's pre-existing fanbase. I suspect she was the least known of the stars not the one with the biggest fanbase.

Week one the judging was dramatically skewed, Joey,Rachel and John tied with 20, Evander and Trista tied with 18, and then Kelly with 13. I think a lot of people voted for Kelly because they thought Evander should be the first to leave, not Kelly. Because the judges had placed her (undeserved) at the bottom, she was at risk. My vote for Kelly that week was just so she would last longer than Evander because I genuinely thought, and still think, that Kelly is the better dancer of the two.

Week two I was surprised to see Rachel and Trista at the bottom instead of Evander after the combined votes. I didn't think either of them deserved to be there. But, after the second show all I saw in Rachel was a ballet dancer doing ballroom, not ballroom dancing. There were no waltz steps in her waltz the first week, and for me her rumba didn't seem like a rumba. Trista's didn't seem erotic either, but she did do complex steps. The description of the rumba was that it was the most erotic of the latin dances. I felt that Kelly captured that. Trista was gone, I wasn't interested in seeing another four weeks of Rachel's ballet moves, and Kelly had showed an entirely different side of herself. I also thought the judges were out to lunch with the "brittle" comment and they hadn't pointed out the lack of waltz steps in Rachel's waltz the first week, and the second week Kelly has as many rumba steps as Rachel did, yet only Kelly was criticized. I still wanted Kelly to last longer than Evander and felt she was most at risk of going.

Week 3, Evander was finally voted off. By now I had more to judge the dancers on. Rachel's tango didn't impress me, nothing new, and I felt had she been expected to do a jive she would have done poorly. Same goes for John, had he been required to do a jive I don't think he would have done as well as Kelly. Joey was good but it seemed to me he was doing hip-hop every week. Kelly's jive was far from perfect and I was surprised at the reaction of the judges. From my perspective Kelly didn't do as good a job as the judges thought, but, I was even more intrigued because each of her dances had been so different (waltz,rumba,jive). So Rachel, ballet every week, Joey, hip hop every week. That week, I voted for Kelly because I wanted to see if she could combine her "latin motion" with her footwork in the samba. I felt I was seeing improvement in Kelly and that the next performance would tell me if she had already delivered all she could, or if there was more to come.

Week 4, Kelly far exceeded my expectations. Her samba was amazing. Her footwork had improved tremendously and so had her arms and general posture. I was amazed at what she accomplished in just one week. Her v. waltz illustrated that she has also learned how to follow Alec. The longer two people dance together the more intune they can get in their lead/follow. Rachel's samba was horrendous and she didn't follow well in the v. waltz. I don't get why the judges seem to think she is so great. I see the qualities one would expect for someone with 11 years of ballet, nothing more. I felt Joey's samba was better than both Rachel's and John's. He didn't lead well in the v. waltz but did a respectable job of it. Their "center piece" of "he goes she goes" really turned me off because it didn't suit a v. waltz at all, and again, Joey was all about hip-hop. Even the judges acknowledge Kelly as the top dancer. Even if they hadn't, of all the couples, Kelly is the star I most want to see dance the foxtrot and paso doble.

John is the favorite for the foxtrot because he and Charlotte's strength is the standards. People are also saying he will rock the Paso Doble because of his dramatic flare.

I think that even though Alec's strength is latin, that because Kelly is doing well with following, that she and Alec could surprise us with a powerful foxtrot. I am hoping they dance to "Fever". Alec is a Paso Doble champ and given Kelly's samba performance I think they will do a fabulous job.

So, at first, I wasn't voting for Kelly because she was the best dancer, but because she wasn't the worst so in my eyes deserved to stay longer than Evander. Once I saw her jive, my reasoning changed. I now considered her the better dancer than both Joey and Rachel, and more interesting than John. Now I am voting for her because I feel she is the best ballroom dancer of the bunch having surpassed even John.

I never voted for Kelly based on "fandom" and I know many other people who say the same. Kelly has brought something new to the game every week and although she started off less skilled she hasn't just improved the most, she has actually managed to surpass the others in skill (in my opinion).

Kelly earned her votes through her dancing just like the others. First she was better than Evander (waltz and rumba), then she was better than Rachel (jive), and now (in my opinion) she is the best of the bunch bar none.

I read that article this morning, and he says he is doing the fox trot this week. Didn't they already do the fox trot in the first week? I thought they are doing the Paso Dobles.

He does come across as a bit whiny, I think. Ohhh woe is me, Kelly has all her soap opera fans and they already watch ABC. The Chicago Tribune Red Eye had on its cover a full page color picture of John and Charlotte's put both hands in front of you mime-move from last week's samba. Ugh.

The male Stars did the Cha-cha-cha and the female stars did the Waltz.

It's interesting that JOH is saying how he doesn't have much of a fan base, but I would say that about 75% of the press surrounding the show has featured him.

infosaturated, welcome to TWOP, but here it's frowned on to tell other posters what they should think. The FAQ should help.



Well, there's mugging and then there's MUGGING. I agree that there is a particular character that needs to be expressed on the floor, but not a caricature.

I'm confused about the voting snafu for John and Charlotte. Did it affect their placement last week, or was it last week's audience vote that will affect this week's placements? And what did ABC mean when it said it was investigating the mishap? How can they reclaim votes that are lost because they went to a different number that has nothing to do with the show?

infosaturated, oh my gawd after all these weeks I have been voting for the wrong person, maybe I should switch my vote from John to Kelly, except Not! What you have just said may convince people at the abc board (I know your a Kelly fan) but I know I have my own mind here.

I think the "voting snafu" is just bunk. Why would people only dial 888 for Peterman and not the others? I think the only reason why they know it happened for Peterman is because there is probably a real live person that answers that number. There could be just as many people who dialed the wrong numbers for other contestants. The numbers are clearly stated and shown on screen, at least twice each episode. It's not ABC's job to compensate for stupidity.

What voting snafu? I completely missed this. Probably it was covered in exhaustive detail on the ABC boards, but I figured all the voting problem threads were reporting the same issues as at the beginning of the show, like busy lines, erroneously being told you'd used up all your votes, etc. (also checking the ABC site less frequently since rants took over.)

Is this voting problem something different?

Some newspapers reported that fans in local markets dialing the show to vote instead reached local numbers.