Here we can discuss the...well, talk about Season Two. They still wore unisex outifts, Troi was still dull, and Wesley still wouldn't shut up! Oh, but they got this new doctor...she reminded us of someone...but who?

I remember watching a rerun of Shades of Grey in abject horror. However bad other episodes were, they at least attempted to have a plot. This ep didn't even have that. Horrible, just horrible.

Shades of Grey was the unfortunate result of the writer's strike that year; thus, we got the Abominable Clip Show. I'd've just as soon not even had a season finale.

I don't remember the ep. He gets bitten by something?

There was a thorn involved. It was part of some funky vine that could move, because Data had to grab it before it struck when they grabbed a sample.

Even though most find season two sub-par, I think that some of the episodes such as the Measure of a Man and the Royale were some of the better eps in the whole series.

"The Royale?" Ugh, I can't stand that episode. I find it completely excruciating and slow.

The Measure of a Man was a great ep. The discussion Picard has with Guinan about what was going on was great. Q who? is part of this season and I love that ep.
Q says: "It's not safe out here! It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
Picard and by extention the UFP is pretty damn arrogant about their place in the universe. Q gave them a much needed reality check. I also wish they would have kept the special effect when we see the Borg cube actually regenerate. It was cool.

You mean the twitching piece of string?

I would respect this episode a lot more if they'd found a more creative way to discuss the issue. A courtroom drama is the laziest way to handle any issue (see: the entire David E. Kelley oeuvre). You basically get to have your characters stand up and recite one side of the argument. Then you have opposing counsel stand up and recite the opposite argument. Then you have the judge make a speech weighing both sides and coming down in favor of one or the other. I prefer to see philosophical debates dramatized, and IMHO the best instance of this on Star Trek is Cogenitor, an Enterprise episode (imagine that!).

Anyway, for me, the interesting part of that episode is Riker's story. He has to argue, to the best of his ability, that one of his friends has no inherent right to life, or else said friend will die. Talk about your rocks and hard places.

I love the interaction between Riker and Data at the end of the ep.

There were a few other good episodes in this season. I thought "The Emissary" was damn good when Worf started to finally get some characterization. Also, "A Matter of Honor," "Peak Performance," and "Contagion," all had merit.

The second season was definitely still a work in progress, but it did surpass the first.

I agree that Cogenitor is really good (it's the only Enterprise episode I would count among the "episodes that make Trek important"). But I think "Measure of a Man" is better. The important issues in Cogenitor have to do with, uh, "her" self-realization that she is actually an individual deserving of rights, which she learns from Trip. Data already knows that, so the premise is slightly different. To recast "Measure of a Man" in the "Cogenitor" mold, you'd have to actually have Data go to Maddox's lab, but do something while he's there that makes Maddox realize that Data really is sentient. He would have to, I guess, risk his own life to save Maddox from some sort of lab accident, then justify it in some insightful way. This, however, only provides one example. How many feats must Data perform before Maddox is convinced?

But doing it that way you only show something that the audience already knows. You lose out on Picard and Guinan's implicit parallels with slavery, you lose out on Riker's struggle with having to try to kill Data in order to save him, you lose out on Data's final line, "That action injured you and saved me. I will not forget it." which just drives home the point that Data *really does understand*.

In "Measure of a Man," it's not the courtroom arguments that really make the point. It's how Data behaves on the stand. It's his explanations for his behavior. Why his medals and his gifts from Picard are important. Why Tasha Yar was important. How he is able to form sentimental attachments. Not only does it prove to the court that Data is sentient, it shows the viewers that he actually has emotions, too; he's just not aware of them. We already know Data is sentient. But what we didn't know - and what we learned here - is more about just what is important to him and why. I think this really is presented in the best way possible in this episode.

The episode is just so issue-oriented, and there's just so much subtlety to it. Maybe it's the talkiest episode in all of TNG. But they've got a lot to say.

Qwho was on today and is always an enjoyable episode, but the Guinan/Q connection was never really explained. Q said she was going by a different name a couple of centuries ago. That would mean she was going by Guinan at least five hundred years ago (Time's Arrow), then changed her name, then changed it back, by the time of this episode. There seemed to be some implication that she had some sort of power to protect herself from Q, but this never manifested itself in later episodes, or concerning Al-alurians in general. She also said that the Borg have been around for thousands of centuries, but a Voyager episode seemed to indicate that they had only assimilated a few hundred species about 700 years ago. Not a total contridiction, but does seem off. And they weren't assimilating at this point in any case, but did in the past. There does seem to be a clear connection to the neutral zone damage and the Borg, which would mean that they "aren't coming", they already have been here. I suppose the fanwink thing to explain it all would be that some part of the signal from 2063 to the Borg of that era made it through, they sent a scout ship and scooped up the NZ bases for study.

Ok so "The Outrageous Okuna" is on today, and unless I'm losing my mind I could have sworn I saw TERRI HATCHER playing a transporter chief who eventually winds up in the sac with Captain Okuna. Does anyone know if she has ever guest starred on TNG? Thanks.

That was her.

Thank you. It's amazing the people that you see on that show that are big stars now. Famke Jannsen, Ashley Judd, Terri Hatcher etc.

I'm watching "The Royale" now. It's not meant as a serious foray into philosophy. It's a fluffy bit of fun, with Riker and Data camping it up at the tables. And the poor dead astronaut, trapped in a crappy novel.

"Up the Long Ladder" was on today; I only watched the beginning, so I missed Dirty Feet woman, but I forgot that this episode had Worf giving Pulaski the Klignon tea ceremony. Too bad that gem of a scene was in such an offensive episode.

"The Royale" never bothered me much because I got the feeling it wasn't taking itself too seriously. They knew it was cheesy and they went along with it. Besides, I love seeing Data say, "Baby needs a new pair of shoes." Of course, he was cheating, but what the heck, I like it anyway.

Another good tidbit from "Up the Long Ladder" was the scene where Picard takes in the chaos of the cargo bay and starts laughing. "Sometimes, Number One, you just have to bow to the absurd." That, and Worf showing Head Drunken Irish Stereotype Guy a REAL drink.

And I agree with frenchtoast and Divaah46: "The Royale" was a lighter-than-air hoot.

Because I was in a nostalgic mood yesterday, I was pleasantly surprised yesterday to find that my Tivo had recorded an ep of TNG. That ep? Up the Long Ladder. Turns out nostalgia was not strong enough to make me watch it.

Yeah, I didn't watch the whole thing either when it came on. I gave up when they began transporting the ... uh... peasants(?). But it was still nice to see Worf and Pulaski. Those two had some good chemistry.

The episode that aired before that? "Samartian Snare". God, now that was dumb and dull, which are the two things television shows shouldn't be. At least I can laugh at "Up the Long Ladder" while cringing at horribly offensive it is. Well, I do occasionally say, "We are smart," or "We are strong," or "We are not smart," in that monotone Pakled way.

"Measure of a Man" is not only one of the stand out episodes of that season, but it's one of my favorite TNG. Ranks right up there with "The Drumhead" as a great example of how to do courtoom drama on TNG. I forgive S2 a lot for that episode, I just don't watch a lot of them.

Measure of a MAn and the episode with Moriarty(can't remember it's name) save the season for me.

Or, as I said to my brother when he came over to fix my car, "It is broken. Make it go."

Elementary, Dear Data is what I believe you are thinking of, wrighty555. Personally, I prefer the later Ship in a Bottle. Brent Spiner doesn't make for such a great Holmes. It's cute, but give me Jeremy Brett any day.
I should be fair, though, and confess that it was Data's admiration of Holmes that led me to read the books. And props to the writers for that bit of continuity.

Thank you, I haven't seen some of these episodes in years so I can't remember their names. Ship in a Bottle is one of the best episodes they have ever produced.

For some reason I've always fondly recalled "The Child." After recently watching a rerun of it, I can't imagine where those positive feelings came from. I think I must have been blinded by my unthinking love for Troi.

But the most bizarre thing is that the episode really has nothing to do with Troi herself. Her reaction to the situation is barely explored, we really only have the faintest clue what her feelings towards her offspring are. We see her being so adamant on keeping the baby... but how does she come to this decision? Not even addressed.

Reading through this thread, I was also fondly reminded of "Q Who." The Borg had such terrifying simplicity here. Sometimes I forget just how frightening they were, when I think of how overused and contrived the whole Borg thing became circa Voyager.

Saw "Measure of a Man" today. The ep stills gives me chills in a good way. Was it wrong to be crying at angsty Riker? I so felt for him watching it this time.

Of course not- he was in such a tough spot that it's hard not to feel for the guy. I particularly like that for a couple of seconds he really gets into his role; when he's looking at Data's schematics there's a moment where he sort of mentally goes "Bingo!" before he remembers what he's doing there. It doesn't have quite the dramatic effect of Data's .68 second contemplation of Lady McBorg's offer; of course, Riker can only do so much with the script, he's only human...

I have to say though, that for amateurs, both he and Picard made pretty good lawyers. Of course, Picard gets the best line- ("Starfleet was founded to seek out new life- well THERE IT SITS.") but hey, he's the captain.

ETA:


Touche- I don't think I really expressed myself properly there. I meant to imply that the First Contact scene was a more memorable moment, and got tripped up in the wording.

I would say it actually has a deeper dramatic effect, since Data's "offer" was played for the humor and we never actually got to see it as we did with Riker.

I saw "Manhunt" this week, and was just reminded of how much I adore Lwaxana. For a series that sometimes took itself WAY too seriously, she brought a nice twist from "alien treaty of the week" story. And it's nice to see Picard uncomfortable for a change.

Is that the one where she flippantly tells Picard, just at the end, that one of the fishy diplomats is a spy/saboteur or something? That was fun.

That's it! She's going through the Betazoid version of menopause, and is looking for a husband. Picard invites Data to intrude on their date, and she is just hilarious slumping in the chair while he discusses the chemical makeup of brown dwarf stars. Too funny.

In Manhunt, I liked this exchange in the scene where Troi and Riker are describing to Picard Betazed menopause (I'm paraphrasing here):

Riker: Sexual desires quadruples.
Troi: More.
Riker: More?
Troi: Well, I didn't want to scare you.


The Child was the first episode of ST I had ever seen, and from then on, I was hooked. For that reason, that episode is one of my favorites and Troi was one of favorites characters. I agree with you, JyDanzig, noboby bothered to ask Troi how she felt about the whole situation, and I don't think it was ever addressed again. Wouldn't that have made for good conversation between Troi and Laxana in Dark Page? One of my favorites snark parts in The Child was when Riker said "I don't mean to be indelicate, but who's the father?" I mean, come on, Will "Manwhore" Riker is the LAST person who should be asking about and judging other people's sexual exploits. One thing I thought was interesting about that scene was how Troi intentionally sat as far away as she could from everyone else.

See, I don't think he's overstepping his bounds here by asking her; she is a good friend, a former lover, and still Imzadi. As for judging, I don't see anything judgmental in that query, it's perfectly natural when a woman without an obvious partner announces she's pregnant.



I saw it that the others were intentionally sitting away from her, which just added to the asshattery of the whole scene to me, adding insult to the injury of talking about her as if she wasn't there. I'm always little ticked off at the gall they have to seem surprised that Troi would actually have her own opinion about the matter.

Sorry; I think there's a great untapped potential in that episode, but the way it was actually executed, not so much. I understand your nostalgia for it; "first exporesure" has probably got a lot to do with why I actually like TMP so much.

I totally understand the first exposure phenomenon. First episode of TNG I ever saw: "The Game." 2nd episode: "Code Of Honor." I know. Sort of amazing I ever watched again, isn't it?

I lucked out. My first was Yesterday's Enterprise. A friend convinced me I had to watch it, and I'm now forever in her debt.

This season mostly sucked, but there were just enough good gems in it to make it bearable. "Measure of a Man," has to go on the top 10 best eps of the neitre series.

I really did like Riker going Klingon in, "A Matter of Honor." We also got to meet K'Ehlyr for the first time. I really liked her a lot and thought she made a great match for Worf.

Seeing last night's episode of The Apprentice reminded me how whacked the holodeck was during the second season. When you asked for a "comedian" it puts in Joe Piscopo?!! WTF?!

I actually think Joe was funny on SNL, though really his only competition in that era was Eddie Murphy, who he teamed with more often than not.

But yeah, his subplot in... was it "The Outrageous Okona"?... was the beginning of the end for Data and me.

Clearly a holodeck malfunction.

Well, look on the bright side--it could have given him Gallagher. Then you would have had Data smashing watermelons in Ten-Forward during the second act.

Heh, I was just about to post about this. Seriously, Whoopi couldn't have pulled a few strings and brought in Robin Williams or Arsenio? And let's not forget about her bad jokes. "You're a droid, and I'm annoyed."

Ahh, Season Two. Also knows as Season One Part Deux. Though often overlooked, season two gave us some good episodes, and we got to meet some of the coolest villains of the series; the Borg, the Pakleds, and Joe Piscopo. Bev got tired of Picard and went off to Starfleet Medical. Man-skirts, which originally came about due to a miscommunication between the producers and the costume department, also disappeared. Admirals' uniforms kept changing from episode to episode. Some of the more memorable episodes for me included:

The Child - Troi get raped by some weird non-corporeal being, Riker gets jealous, hilarity ensues. Okay, hilarity or anything else for that matter doest really ensue, as this is the colosally boring Season Two. Troi has a scary kid for a few days, who gets annoyed of her being his mom, and eventually leaves. To be honest, this episode aged pretty well, and is still interesting to watch.

The Outrageous Han Solo - a truly unbearable episode, made even more unbearable by Joe Piscopo's prolonged cameo.

The Schizoid Man - Data has a grandpa, and guess what - he's a wee bit "schizoid" as the title suggests. Not a bad ep with cool graphics and an interesting plot.

Unnatural Selection - apparently, in this season, genetic engineering on humans was okay. Later - not so much. The makeup department worked overtime to make the actors age, and Dr. Pulaski even becomes bearable for a few minutes.

A Matter of Dishonor - Riker drafts himself into the Klingon Defense Force, joins a BOP crew, enjoys some massive escargot, goes without toilet paper and deodorant for a few days, manages to take command of the vessel before its paranoid captain decides to blast the Enterprise for allegedly keying the paintwork on his ship with some rust-microbes. Another great Klingon episode, and a neat window into the day-to-day workings of a Klingon ship. Seems like a pretty stressful career. This episode would have been much better if Data or Troi instead of Riker had drafted themselves onto a Klingon ship.

Measure of a Man - Starfleet suddenly decides that having a shipful of Datas is probably more cost-effective than risking human lives out there every day (with hazard pay and combat pay where it is and all), Picard realizes that no one can type on a console or fly the Enterprise faster than Data, and is forced to battle a kangaroo court that Data is put before to determine his legal status. Set of kangaroo court is actually the battle bridge, Nebula-class starship bridge, and half a dozen other sets I cant recall. In the end, all returns to normal. Isnt any person from Starfleet Command nice anymore?

The Dolphin - Wesley has the hots for a girl shapeshifter with a seriously overprotective grandma.

Contagion - The USS Yamato makes its appearance in this chilling episode, where it blows up in a seriously uncool fashion. In reality, a weird cloud creature is messing with the crew, and disturbingly enough, wants to see them have sex. Its a good thing they didnt. The writers were drunk that day.

Yoo-Hoo - we are introduced, in a truly explosive fashion, to the Borg, courtesy of Q's antics. Great episode, sets up by far the best villains of the entire series. Ends on a scary note on par with Conspiracy. Don't you just love how the Enterprise varies in size from shot to shot in relation to the Borg cube? Who'd have thunk that phasers could do so much damage to the cube in this particular ep?

Samaritan Snare - Picard's heart is replaced (under warranty), while Riker, who is left in command, manages to get a member of the crew taken hostage by the Pakleds, who are not the sharpest tools in the shed, or so it seems. I loved this episode for its sheer hilarity, but the Pulaski-Picard "relationship" made me uncomfortable.

Ensigns of Command - a race of walking turds wants to take over a small part of Federation space, citing some legal document.

Matter-of-fact Dishonor
They could have cast the episode as a contrast in styles, but Riker needed to hang with the boys on this one. The episode allowed him to finally leave behind the persona as a beardless wonder he cultivated back in season one.

Think of Riker with the beard as Sisko-lite (or maybe in later seasons -- Sisko-heavy).

HansBlix, I think you're confusing the end of Contagion with Where Silence Has Lease, because one of those involved a weird cloud creature type thing, and the other involved a portal to Toronto and a bunch of other places type thing.

Ah, youre absolutely RIGHT! I always get the two Yamato episodes confused...

Where Silence Has Lease (aka the "weird cloud creature type thing") was on SpikeTV Friday. I love "mystery" type episodes where they have to figure out what the heck is going on, so I really liked this episode. At least up until the cloud creature appeared. When he first popped up on the screen he scared the crap out of me; after that I got a little bored. It was like it became a totally different episode halfway through.

The cloud creature Negilum or some such?

IIRC, the cloud creature was called "Nagillum," because actor Richard Mulligan (Soap) was slated to play him.