I've noticed that, in all of the individual captain threads (Picard, Sisko, Janeway, etc) some comparison with other captains works its way in. So, I thought it would be interesting to have a thread where we could talk about all the captains, from Kirk to Archer, their differing personalities and command styles, etc. And why they each appealed to you...or didn't.

Hands down, my favorite captain is Picard. Archer's an asshat, and if he's the savior of the universe one more time, I'm going to blow a gasket. Kirk was cocky and arrogant and put himself in danger too much. Sisko was... loud. I missed the later seasons of DS9, so it's hard to give a better explanation than that. Janeway was kind of annoying, and while I think that ultimately, she was a good captain, Picard was better.

Picard knew his place as captain. He was intelligent and delegated authority properly. He knew what his flaws were and tried to overcome them or at least work around them. Hell, even Q thought Picard was the best captain.

Agreed. Picard is the best. My first exposure to Trek was TNG so I got to think his style was the only way, so it began to bug the hell out of me whenever Kirk, Janeway, or Archer went on away missions. And yes it did annoy me a little to see Janeway giving him orders in Nemesis

Picard is the best for me. TNG was also my first exposure to Trek. His style makes so much sense when compared to the others.
Archer is the worst. If he had Kirk's zest for life and adventure maybe he would be more bearable.

My listing:

1. Picard - Grew up with TNG, grew up loving Picard. An awesome captain.

2. Sisko - I liked Sisko a lot, Picard edges him out primarily on sentimental reasons.

3. Kirk - Eh. I haven't watched a lot of TOS, but Kirk was okay.

4. Janeway - I thought Janeway had potential, thanks to a cool, if brittle-voiced Kate Mulgrew, but she was victimized by bad writing.

....

99. Harriman - The captain that hopefully got his ability to command on Tuesday.

100. Archer - What else needs saying? Archer sucks.

Best captain to serve with: Picard, for his passion, intelligence & dignity. Also, the sexiest.

Best captain to watch from the safety of the couch: Janeway, for her moody imperiousness.

Best-in-theory captain: Sisko, for his cool negotiation tactics, wellsprings of anger & devotion to family. If only Avery Brooks weren't such a ham.

Most admirably delusional captain: Kirk, for *knowing* that he is da man despite his sweatiness & balding head & paunchy build.

For Archer, I got nothin'. Best dog award?

Best captain-meets-captain encounter: Sisko blindsiding Picard with memories of Wolf 359 as he accepts the command of DS9.

Not that it has a lot of competition. What are all the Captain-meets-Captain moments?

- That Picard meets Sisko one
- Picard meets Kirk. They scramble eggs and fight to save some planet no one's heard of
- Picard meets Janeway. She's an Admiral and gives him his orders while he pretends she never had her own TV series.
- Sisko meets Kirk in the 23rd century. Pretty neat, actually, but a little too one-sided, since Kirk can't know who Sisko is.

In Deadlock, one of the Janeways blew up her ship and it wasn't an alternate timeline so I think she should have one wrecked starship.

If you're counting the ship Sisko served on (the Lexington?) at Wolf 359, he wasn't in command, so should it count?

As it happens, the J.G. Hertzler played the Vulcan captain of that ship.

Please don't make generalizations. "We" very seldom all agree on anything around here.

But the shot that killed Captain NotMartok also caused the warp core to breach. Somehow, I consider letting everyone blow to smithereens a much, much worse use of Sisko's acting Captain authority. ;)

Sisko's ship at Wolf 359 was the Saratoga.

Rating captains simply by the ships they wrecked seems highly arbitrary, and if alternate timelines count, then Picard wrecked a bunch in "Cause and Effect". Sisko was a wartime captain, so I'd expect he'd get his commands shot up more.

Picard captained the Enterprise-E throughout the Dominion War, and made it out fine. (But USS Deviant forgot the the Stargazer, which Picard also lost). I think losing ships is a decent metric; it must have taken some pretty good captaincy on Janeway's part to make it all the way across the Delta Quadrant, through Borg territory and back home. Not many captains could have done that (those most wouldn't have blown up the Caretaker's array).

Shouldn't Picard have two wrecked starships? He also lost the Stargazer.

ETA: Hoooo-kay! Everyone beat me to it...

Then I plead mitigating the circumstances of getting an identical Defiant after Sisko lost the first one. ;)

What I like about characters referring to Picard and Kirk as "the Greats", is that they weren't thought great until we the viewers actually formed that opinion ourselves. If they had started out the series as legends, they could never have lived up to them in our eyes I feel. Sisko was treated (sort of) as something special at the start of DS9, but he didn't think that way. By the time he embraced being The Emissary, the viewers had as well. I would even grant Janeway the same type of buildup. The sole exception would seem to be Archer. Via The Temporal Cold War characters, we were told Archer was an important and great Captain. The problem was that they told us before they showed us, as opposed to all the other Captains, and it didn't work.

I think a very good way of comparing captains, is the way they handled Q. He pestered both Picard and Janeway for years, and the both of them were utterly incapable to get him of their backs. But he only tried to pull his crap on Sisko the one time, and he never again showed his face on DS9.

Picard got into argument after argument with him.

Janeway had to deal with all of Q’s family issues for crying out loud!

Sisko? Sisko just punched him. Bam! Knocked him on his ass and refused to play along with Q’s antics. Q never bothered him again.

So in my book Sisko gets a lot of points for being the only Starfleet captain able to get Q off his back for good.

Actually, you won't U.S.S. Deviant. It's one of the rules of being polite around here.

AzureOwl, I like your point about Q, but I see it slightly differently. Picard saw Q as a fascinating entity, unlike any other encountered by Starfleet. Q has his own agenda and his own reasons for visiting humanity. But Picard won't find out why Q does what he does unless he engages with him and, hopefully, outwits him. He plays along with Q to see what he'll learn about the Continuum, and at the same time, hopes that some humanity will rub off on Q.

Janeway is similar. She met the Q for the first time in the Quinn episode, and by making the decision to give Quinn asylum and let him commit suicide she had to think very hard about her moral view on the subject. With the later Q-family episodes, again, she was engaging with the Q to learn about them and try and show them what humanity was like.

Sisko just punched Q and refused to play along, thereby learning nothing.

Therefore, my points in this battle go to Picard.

Yes EnglishMuffin, they learned a lot from their involvement with the Continuum, but in several of their encounters, at the expense of terrible danger, not only for themselves but for the universe as well. For example, Janeway's handling of the Quinn affair led to the Q Civil War. The destructive effects of so many supernovae across the Delta Quadrant may have very well destroyed millions.

Every bit of knowledge adquired from their dealings with Q came at the expense of risking the safety of their crews. Also, we must consider that all the captains saw him more as a pest than anything else, and would have gladly been rid of him if they could.

I'll go with Sisko. First of all, I like DS9 the bestest (after much soul-searching) so that gives him bonus points right there. Plus, I liked how complex Sisko was. Sisko was the captain most likely to just up and hit somebody. He also found the patience to explain linear time to the wormhole aliens, despite the fact that they kept throwing him into one of the most traumatic experiences of his life. He could blow up with anger, or be icy cold with rage. He could be intimidating but, at the same time, he seemed like the most approachable of all the captains. He could be deadly serious when necessary, but wasn't above playing along with the occasional bit of silliness.

But, really, I like/love all the captains to one degree or another.

Can't we add Captain Jellico to the thread? I mean, he did show what a true captain oughta do when running the Enterprise-D (Sending Troi for a uniform won my heart forever), he completed his mission. Plus, he was one of the few captains that appeared on the show and:

- Did not die blowing up a ship
- Did not go batshit crazy or evil (like Captain Pressman of the USS Pegasus, Captain Braxton of the Relativity, or Captain Ransom of the Equinox)

Or not. just sayin'

(everyone knows I love Sisko the best anyway!)

That's a great theory on why Archer pushes some people's buttons, QWho. It does bug me that Daniels and Shower Guy are running around saying how important Archer is when he has yet to prove that to me. Only Sisko had a similar pronunciation of greatness, and because of the way it was built up slowly, with Sisko denying it for a very long time, he earned that.

I have to pick Sisko, of course. For me, his only competition is Picard. And I like Sisko's management style a little better. There's just something more appealing to me about working for a boss who acts like your friend instead of your father. And if you deserved a chewing-out, Sisko would chew you out every bit as well as Picard.

In terms of both the actor and the character, I have to say that I liked Sisko the best. Brooks managed the over-the-top scenery chewing of Shatner, but with all of Stewart's poise. Tricky balance to pull off. The writers did something similar with the character, making Sisko as adventurous and "hands on" as Kirk while not giving him the annoying skeeviness, and adding in Picard's deep intellect and strong sense of duty. Add to that a touch of leftover Hawk badassness from Spenser, a son, and the Sisko Voice of God ("MIST-ah Worf!), and I can't help but love him a little more than the rest.

Kirk and Picard tie for second, for all the usual reasons. Or, more specifically, one's seond and another's third, but they keep switching places depending on my whim.

Janeway's third, again for all the usual reasons. I'll go along with the "Fine actress, interesting character, lousy writing" sentiments already expressed so eloquently.

Poor Archer. I'm as much a loyalist as anyone, but even I couldn't take him seriously.

Eris Rising, I've been delaying adding my two cents because I haven't had time to properly think out my reasoning. You've managed to capture my sentiments exactly regarding Sisko, Picard, and Kirk, so thank you.

Janeway and Archer are currently doing the tango for last place, for me. I just didn't care for VOY much, and I have so much residual good-will for Bakula, and enjoy the show so frequently, that I can't decide. I mean, Archer's a sanctimonious idiot, but at least he didn't approve the "Assimilation on Purpose" plan. It's a toughie.

That said, I'd love to have seen Sisko and Picard go "good cop/bad cop" on some bad guy. I think that would have been something to see.

Also, when I think of Sisko's greatness, I think of the things he did as captain. The fact that the Bajorans thought he was the Emissary is something I usually completely forget about. I never thought, "Sisko will win the day because he's the Emissary." It was, "Sisko will win the day because he kicks ass!"

As far as I was concerned, the Emissary thing was just there to make dealing with the Bajorans (who would've given a complete "outsider" a much harder time) easier.

Also, Eris Rising, I love it that Sisko could just say someone's name a certain way and tell you exactly how much he hated/loathed/was disgusted by them.

My favorite instance of this, and how he could turn from one to another on a dime, was when he was interrogating Nog about Red Squad in Paradise Lost. Nog was still treating him like his friend's dad, and Sisko pulled rank on him.

Yeah, what was the line? Something like, "You are under the mistaken impression that I am asking a favor."

Sure, why not? I loved the way Jellico got the Enterprise into ship shape and ready for battle. I got a kick out of the way he dealt with the Cardassians. And Jellico didn't put up with the whimpering ways of Riker or Troi; he put those two so-called senior officers in their proper place. Any man who accomplished that deserved respect and admiration.

Plus, Jellico's leadership style put Picard to shame. Jellico was tough and reasonable. Picard seemed like a pompous intellectual snob -- who was always trying to be loved by everyone -- when compared to Jellico.

Of all the Star Trek captains, Picard was the only one that really bugged me. I didn't like the intellectual conceit that radiated out of Picard. Also, I don't think any other ST captain sought love from his underlings. I remember a scene in an episode where Geordi told someone how much he and everyone else loved and admired Captain Picard. That was so nauseating.

I've been watching ENT season 4 for the first time over the last few weeks, and Archer is so firmly at the bottom of my list of captains. He's constantly rude and snappy to his crew, and he gives off such a vibe of hostility. He seems to have no redeeming qualities at all. He's so awful that I don't understand why Trip doesn't just stage a mutiny.

I've also been rewatching DS9, and I've been thinking about Sisko as a captain, and I think he is my second-least-favourite captain now. I should qualify that by saying that I do like him as a character, but there is no way I'd want him to be my captain. He's too matey with his crew, and you would never know where you are with him. One minute you're having a nice chat, and the next he's shouting at you. He comes off as if he's your friend, but he's very quick to pull rank. Where Picard would make a mild comment to remind you who's in charge, Sisko's all up in your face shouting. He doesn't maintain the distance between himself and the crew that Picard did, and Janeway tried to, and I think that's a bad thing in a captain. Obviously the situation on a starship is different from Sisko's position on the station, but I still don't like his style of captain-ing.

Take the example given by BanjoSteve. It was completely unnecessary for Sisko to use his outdoor voice on Nog when a simple reminder of who outranked who at that table would have sufficed. Shouting is not the same thing as authority.

I realise, though, that all this is the reason why a lot of people like him, so YMMdefinitelyV.

Sisko vs. Picard: Starfleet Deathmatch!

Sisko's my favorite captain, but Kirk's a close second. Picard? I never really warmed to Picard. The funny thing is, my favorite captains are the ones most likely to get your ass killed in a heartbeat. Oh, and Janeway. Janeway, Janeway, Janeway--I could have liked her. Actually, I did like her; however, she was written way to erratically for me to really give her the nod as a favorite captain. Hell, I liked Rachel Garrett far more than Janeway.

This is an interesting discussion.

My favorite? Sisko, but not by a great length ... that's because I love things in almost all of them (Archer excluded). Picard was the intellectual diplomat, Kirk the stout-hearted warrior, and Janeway gets bonus points for commanding a thrown-together crew and getting them to perform admirably despite the ungodly odds they faced.

And Sisko had all those qualities, plus that voice.

Archer? Useless.

Since Archer, Kirk as Captain has grown in my esteem. Yes, he was a blowhard who sometimes thought with his "little head" but he cared about his ship and his crew enough to die AND kill for them. Sisko and Picard are tied as my favorites, Janeway and Kirk on level 2.

Kirk was cool and a good Captain. However he was not a good represenitive of the Fed. Too busy nailing purple chicks.
Picard was a good Captain but more of a future Admiral than a Captain (IMHO at least). He was a decent diplomat and was the smartest of the five. But he lacked human relation skills.
Sisco was probably the coolest and had a lot more going on than the other Captains. Being the Emissary and the Dominion war was a lot of work. He probably was too close to his crew though.
Janeway had the toughest job. Probably the best ship Captain. No other Captain was so screwed. Also had a very questionable bunch of officers and the worst XO. Not sure if she deserved to become an Admiral much less a Vice Admiral but she did a good job.
Archer just plains sucks. Besides being a good pilot in a few episodes I am not sure how he even became a Lieutenant much less a Captain. He was rude and sold out his officers and crew on several occasions.
So to categorize Picard would make the best Admiral. Kirk is the best ladies man. Sisco is the best warleader. Janeway is the best Captain. And Archer is a wanker.

It seems that having Archer around as a crappy example is the best thing that's happened to Janeway.

IMO, Janeway was the best captain. She set out for a short mission into the badlands and was stranded in a different quadrent with a ship with experimental technology (the bio gel packs), having to replace several crew members with Mawqui (the people she was sent to bring back), inexperienced officers (Harry) and a holographic doctor (which had never been used on a long term basis). She managed to integrate the two crews into an efficient and friendly crew with surprisingly few conflicts and even granted a few of them command status. She managed to get through Borg space, several encounters with species 8472, several hostile races and a few run ins with the Q. She saved the entire galaxy from destruction a few times. She managed to get her ship and most of her crew home in a fraction of the time it should have taken her. And she did it all without the support of the Federation.

I agree that Janeway had the crappiest situation. Also her crew had more issues than any other Captains.
I think that Janeway (by the low tv standards) was a very good Captain. However making her a Vice Admiral was pretty stupid. So she gets jumped up 3 grades at once? It would have made a lot more sense to promote her to Commodore or Rear Admiral lower half (whichever SF uses) and make her a teacher at the Academy. She would be a great example of doing your duty and all that military stuff.

But if the purple chicks enjoyed it, that can only help the reputation of the Federation.

Janeway, is a good captain, so is Picard, and he could do combat I think alot better than Janeway. But for the roles they played for the Federation, Picard is the best diplomat by far, and the best reprsentation of what the Federation is.

Sisco after he got past his issues, was a good space station commander, with bad guys just over the river. Also with dealing with a very passionite people, who where just coming out of a long war.

Janeway overall was a great leader, which was given a really bad hand of cards but made the best of it.

Kirk TV, always got the extras killed in some way. farly good diplomat, in helping uniting all the humans from all those planets. Plus discovering a Q type being. Also boning the most aliens I think ever.

Kirk movies, probly one of the best captains out there. He really showed his inovation in dealing with crazy situations, and even with some self dout.

The group of them whatching the Enterprise crash into the planet that is destorying itself.
Kirk: ....What have I done....
Bones: Doing the same thing you have always done, creating hope where there was none.

Archer.... from what I saw, he made some questionable desions, but, he was limited somewhat beuase he always seemed to always have someone looking over his shoulder. Plus I think he had other issues, I mean I was rooting for the Archer, Tapal coupling... I mean all the episodes where tucker and her are involed, Archer seems to be alot more gruff.

They didn't enjoy it when he didn't call the next day!

As a Kirk fangirl, I protest!

There were no purple chicks on TOS. Heh.

Neither of those ranks exist in Star Trek anymore. In TNG era, all we got above Captain was "Admiral". I'm not even sure "Vice-Admiral" exists on screen, usually only in supplemental information like startrek.com's library. I don't think anyone has ever actually said, "Vice-Admiral".

Well, even in today's world, everyone over O-6 are called "General" or "Admiral" regardless of rank. And there were clearly gradations in Trek- Admirals with one pip, or two or three or four. Kirk was a Rear Admiral (Upper), never a full Admiral. Janeway, ridiculously, was a Vice Admiral.

Yeah Janeway was a 3 Pip Admiral. She should have been a Commodore (which I like more than Rear Admiral lower half). But to be jumped 3 ranks?
Also did Chakotay, Paris, Tuvoc, and all the others get promotions? Well, probably not since it's Star Trek.

Paris has already been promoted, Chakotay was a traitor so they probably just reinstated him but I bet Tuvok got promoted.

Was Chakotay a traitor? I can't remember if he was a deserter like Edison and Ro or if he had resigned from Starfleet.
I don't remember Paris becoming a Lt. Cmdr. He moved up and down the Lt ranks a couple of times. Since he was more or less pardoned by Janeway at the begining of the show and he served for 7 years becoming a full Lt. seems like a pretty weak promotion.

I don't hate Janeway all that much, but I refuse to believe that she was promoted to Vice Admiral that quickly.
So what if...
The night before her subspace communication with the Enterprise; Rear Admiral Janeway had attended the monthly Admirals-Only Conclave. The purpose of these "gatherings" was to determine what stupid, humiliating actions they would put the ships of the fleet through. It also involved shedding of everyone's uniforms after they'd consumed massive amounts of Aldebaran Whiskey, Saurian Brandy, Romulan Ale, and Blood Wine. Normally this celebration lasted 52 hours, but after 26 hours of "entertainment", Janeway remembered that she had that "important" subspace briefing with Captain Picard. In her hungover state she put on the uniform that belonged to Alynna Nechayev. Since, she was only a Rear Admiral the other admirals decided not to tell her because they thought that it would be fun to play a practical joke on her. Jean-Luc noticed the uniform error immediately, but he would never mention such a trivial matter (especially after Gregory Quinn told him about the "festivities") to a superior officer who appeared to be enjoying herself.
...notice my use of the power of continuity.

No, I haven't been drinking. Why do you ask?

jake, the idea of a bunch of Starfleet admirals running around drunk and naked scares me no end.

But it's a great theory.

jake, I think that's the Fanwank to End All Fanwanks. It's like the Apocalypse of the Fanwank.

Speaking of Janeway, I never really understood how she got to be captain. I understand that she was on the science track (hence her mastery of technobabble in seasons 1 and 2), but was she ever a first officer? We really don't understand much about her except that she had a dog named Molly and a pet--I mean, boyfriend named Mark (who left her for a more caring, nurturing environment). I really think she was the least well developed of the captains.

Hee! The Admiral's Baccanal! I'm scarred for life! Hee!

Actually I find Janeway more beliveable as a captain than ARcher, although for the same reasons you cited, Snarky. Of course, I didn't watch VOY religiously, so I might be missing something.