Comparing this show to Naruto is like comparing cgi to claymation. Each have their charms, but in the end cgi/Avatar is better, shinier and just better. MY GOD it's better in so many ways. For example the plot. The fights. The characters. The voice actors. The plot. The fights. Oh yeah, the fights. And the plot. The fights.

I really like the avatar fights...

Anyway. I'm happy for 3 more seasons. I'll watch regardless of whether it's actually seasons or movies and whether or not the creators are in control. Maybe they'll do tv movies or straight to dvd and then split them into sets of episodes. Like Fox did with the Family Guy Movie.

If not then I think one of the new Books will be Spirit.

possible, since spirit is a bona fide element (ask the wiccans).
thing is, even with air and spirit, thats still only 5 seasons, so they will need pseudo elements. and you just know that it'd end up with flimsy, poor excuses for 'quests' etc (hey, 6th series,metal- aangs lost his keys!).
saying that, i would want to see the kids all grown up, because i hate things that end inconclusively.seriously, i always say i'd prefer everyone dead, and knowing theyre dead, than not knowing at all (plus then you dont get spin offs, heh).
plus if zutara does work out then you get to see their messed up kids!half water bender, half fire bender, mothers a nag, fathers zuko...
honestly, im a zutara shipper for that fact alone.

anyway...if they can find plausible new stories then im all for avatar 4,5,6, but if not then stuff it. id rather none than bad.
same with the movie.

I'm pretty sure that when the show ends that it will not end inconclusively. The show will end in a satisfying way where we will get the idea that the characters lives will go on and that we will get a pretty good idea of how those lives will go. It's satisfying to leave a series with the feeling that characters that you have grown to love will live on to more adventures.

Besides, who says spin offs are that bad an idea? CSI: Ba Sing Se, anyone? Heh.

I would totally watch the adventures of Sokka: P.I..

The real question about additional seasons is this: "When will the show reach it's natural end?"

The answer in my opinion three seasons. Think about it. In the "Water" season Aang learned waterbending from Katara. In the "Earth" season he learned earthbending from Toph. Next season will probably be called "Fire". Aang will learn firebending, probably from Iroh or Zuko and will then defeat Azula and Ozai. Having an "Air" season would make no sense since Aang is already a master airbender.

Pushing a show past it's natural end is never a good idea.

Take Stargate SG-1 for example. At the end of season 8 all the Goa'uld were defeated, the Jaffa were free, and all was right with the universe. The show could have ended there and I would have been happy. But Sci-Fi renewed it for a 9th and 10th season, deciding the cancell it after the 10th leaving the brand new storyline completely unfinished. That is why shows should never go on past their natural end no matter how good the show is.

See I disagree completely with the SG1 example. I loved seasons 9 and 10 and they're concluding the Orii arc in the first TV movie.

I love seasons 9 & 10 of SG-1 also, but the show came to a natural end at the end of season 8. The fact that they have to rely on TV movies or direct to DVD movies just shows that it isn't reaching a natural end at the end of this season.

So I'm hoping Avatar doesn't make the same mistake, and makes sure to end the show naturally no matter how many seasons they have.

See, I think the show can last past the 3 seasons naturally. Because just winning the war, aka defeating ozai and azula, doesn't wrap everything up. If Zuko becomes fire lord and ends the war, I can't imagine everyone, especially all his generals, being happy and accepting of that. And what happens between the fire nation and the rest of the nations, there's still lots of tension there.

What happens with the air nomads? Is Aang really the last of his kind or will there be a search for the rest? He could search and still find out he really was the last airbender I suppose. Book 4 :Air.

Some of the Southern water tribe has to be rebuilt, since Sokka and Katara's tribe was pretty pathetic. And ties to the Northern tribe could be reesablished.

I feel like all this provides a good jumping off point for the fourth season and stems pretty naturally from the first 3.

Then a new enemy has to be introduced. This could even be introduced in a small way in season 3. I think in the 3 part interview they talk about whether the avatar world in round or flat, and if it's round what's on the other side? Who knows what's over there? Lots of potential there. And in coming together to fight the new enemy/whatever you have fire nation interacting with other nations and zuko becoming part of the gaang if that doesn't happen in season 3.

So this whole post is to say I think you could have another 3 seasons and keep it 'natural' so to speak and fresh.

Plus I want more Avatar.

You know as long as Mike and Bryan are involved in shaping these three extra seasons I'm not too worried. The first story will reach it's conclusion at the end of season three and if they then have another three season story arch that they want to tell I'm all for it.

Venturestar, that would be an interesting story arc. Hopefully it will happen that way.

As long as it's not like Buffy, where the last two TV seasons seem so separate from the first five as to be a different TV show. The ideas were interesting, but all the darkness they tried to add wasn't handled as well as it should have been, so I only like the beginning of season six, plus a couple of more episodes, and only one episode of season seven. Of course, season eight seems to be shaping up well.

Anyway, this could be either a wonderful situation or a very sucky one that will tarnish the show forever.

I think Mike and Bryan could do a great follow up, but only if they want to. Of course, I'd love to see "Avatar" go on ad infinitum, but I want it to be because the creators still have fresh ideas in their minds, and not that Nick is holding a gun to their heads, forcing them to crank out new content for cash. But I feel like the "Avatar" world so far has been established as a vast and rich place, with a lot of stories within in still to be told. And the war just isn't going to wrap up neatly with the defeat of Ozai. There's a lot of rebuilding to be done, and as mentioned above, I'm sure the Fire Nation isn't just going to say, "Ok, it's over" and let it go at that. Some of the fanfics I've read have had some pretty interesting concepts about Zuko and Iroh fighting a Fire Nation insurgency post-war, with assassination attempts and the like, Katara and Sokka are ambassadors of the united Water Tribes, Toph is an Earth Kingdom general (!), and Aang is of course, the man working his tail off to broker a lasting peace. And I have to admit, it's pretty interesting stuff - and ripe for adventure!

I stand by my earlier title of Sokka: The Meat And Sarcasm Guy. Like Avatar: The Last Airbender, or Xena: Warrior Princess.



It's "Heart"; maybe "Quintessence" because W.I.T.C.H. is awesome, but otherwise it's always Heart, you Philistines!

'Heart' makes me feel sick. It's what Xander was described as bringing to the Buffy group. Heart? Fuck off. Waste of space. Spirit is cool. There's even a Spirit World. And other spirits floating around like the Owl and the face stealer.

However I would happily allow Aang to use Quintessence.

no, seriously, its not heart mate.its spirit. air, fire, water, earth, spirit. uh... mind, passion, emotion, body and soul they stand for, i think, im not too sure on that. but yeah, seriously. spirit. not heart.trust me on this one, i know what im on about.
w.i.t.c.h is a load of balls.lol.

Wiccan isn't what Avatar elements are based on. Avatar is based on Asian ideas and religions, so the real question is what Buddhism, Hinduism, or Taoism would call it.

I would say spirit would be best because it has already been established in the show that Aang can talk to spirits and even travel to the spirit world.

The closest Eastern elemental system to Avatar's is either the Hindu or classical Japanese system (similar to the one used for Onmyoudo), both of which use Water, Fire, Earth, and Air like the Aristotlean system that everyone is familiar with; no other Eastern system of five or fewer elements recognizes Air as a primary element. The Hindu system uses "Void" as the fifth element, while the classical Japanese system uses "Sky", "Heaven", or "Spirit" interchangeably.

Given the inclusion of the Spirit World, though, I would be surprised if Spirit turned out not to be the label used. Not that I'm giving up hope on Quintessence.




1) I was kidding. The perils of tossing references at someone unfamiliar with Captain Planet and the Planeteers.

2) Please don't presume to lecture me on the themes and variations of metaphysical elemental theory, because undoubtedly I was studying it before you were born. And the borderline AIM-speak doesn't help either.

3) *And* you disparage W.I.T.C.H.? Infidel! Begone! Begone from my sight!

So, "Imprisoned" from season one was on this morning. I hadn't seen it in months, and I was struck by how... naive Katara was. They see an earthbender, Sokka says "this guy looks dangerous, we'd better approach cautiously" and Katara just walks right up and says hello. And she doesn't see why staying in a village swarming with Fire Nation troops is a bad idea. And then expects her melodramatic speech to get all the prisoners to risk being burned alive attempting escape after years of imprisonment. And it never occurs to her that a rig in the middle of the ocean is an awesome place to be a waterbender. D'oh!

On the other hand, The Warriors of Kyoshi is still as good as I remember. Suki is awesome.

"Imprisoned" is possibly my least favorite episode of the series. It does have two of the most hilarious moments in the series, of course, but Norma Rae Katara is too much to take.

I honestly find Katara's speech hard to watch. It's just so very awkward, after she makes her impassioned speech about "freedom, woohoo!" and everyone just looks at her blankly.

"The Warriors of Kyoshi" is indeed a pretty sweet episode. Sokka is a chauvinistic jerk at first, but he proves his awesomeness by being willing to swallow his pride and learn from someone with something to teach him. Also awesome is Aang and Katara's arguement. Funny stuff.

Imprisoned is bad, enough so I'm surprised I made it past it, but The Cave of Two Lovers is about as painful, even with hilarious Aang ineptitude of love.

The first time I saw it, I didn't like it very much, but the second (and third, etc.) time, I grew quite fond of it. Mostly, the hippies annoyed me because they were so obviously Avatar-version hippies, and they just seemed out of place. But then I decided they were amusing anyway.

Hmmm, I'll go with I lack the ability to be amused by those hippies or by Sokka-uber-Sokka. It might also be that Nick plays it weekly but won't play the Blind Bandit. I'd much rather get that on my tivo.

They play Two Lovers often on standard Nick? That's annoying as hell. Why don't they do what they do on Nick Toons Network, play it over and over in sequential order. This has allowed me to combine DVR with never ending persistence and entrap my boyfriend and good friend into Avatar world, and this was hard considering the boyfriend enjoys stuff like Grey's Anatomy (working on him). Imprisoned is annoying not because it's badly done, but because it's one of the few times that the show relies on a tired cartoon trope and doesn't enliven it i.e. the Heroes Revitalize Subjected Citizens episode. Blind Bandit, Bitter Work, actually have similar tropes, the Its Hard to Lean Something New and Seemingly Demure but Powerful character thing, but they are such overall great episodes in other ways it makes up for it.

I think they're showing them somewhat in order, but they're leaving out some episodes. I just haven't seen the Blind Bandit since my first viewing, so I'd rather watch that than the Cave of Two Lovers, even if Aang would rather kiss her than die.

I think it's important to note that that episode happens early on in the series. She was naive about what it's like to be a prisoner because she had yet to see all the war-stuff until later in the show. And she wasn't powerful enough of a waterbender to summon up all that water the rig was suspended high above. However, the "Hi, I'm Katara!" Line was pretty dumb. Still funny though.

I think probably the best part of "Imprisoned" is Katara and Sokka's attempt at faux-earthbending. "That lemur's an earthbender!" is priceless.:) But I admit it's not in the top tier. What makes "Bitter Work" so good - even though it's such a basic and tried and true concept - is the execution. The fact that Aang winds up not earthbending Sokka out of the predicament he's in (which would be expected), but that he airbends instead. The juxtapositioning of the final scenes - Aang, triumphantly celebrating with his friends that he's finally gotten the hang of earthbending, then the cut to Zuko crying out in rage and frustration on the mountain top. Toph telling Aang he's "got stuff" and that great scene of Zuko and Iroh practicing the re-direction of lightning in tandem. That's actually one of my favorite individual scenes of the series. :D

I hope that no one has posted this yet:





It's said to take place on May 25-27.

Oh no! Is Sokka going to have to hypnotize him??

Goddammit, why can't they even hold these things in South Carolina?

Oh, right.

I actually flipped the channel there, the last time that aired (last weekend?). It's physically difficult to watch. I am waaaaaay too invested in this show...

Great now I'm considering jaunting off to Toronto to "see my relatives." Damn them!

I agree that "Imprisoned" is not really a great episode. It has a few really funny moments like most Avatar episodes, the "that lemur is earthbending" bit and the whole "was it a buffalo or a bison" bit (especially chucking the guy off the rig and then being told he was the captain). Overall though I find it difficult to sit through multiple times when I'm showing new people the series. Katara is pretty naive in that episode, but I'm ok with that because she's led a fairly sheltered life and has limited experience with the outside world and what it's like to live in an occupation. And I'll mostly forgive her for not waterbending as at this point she can't even manage a water whip.

I'm surprised some people here don't like "Cave of Two Lovers" it's my favorite humorous episode of the whole show. I crack up every time I watch it. (The gag about Sokka smacking his forehead till it's red is my favorite bit.)

Word about "Bitter Work," Aurinos. It's a great episode. I love all the philosophy and depth we get about bending in that episode: Iroh's explanation of the four elements and his water/firebending technique. And especially the idea that earthbending is opposite to airbending and thus causing Aang such difficulty. It fits really well with how the different bending arts are portrayed and with Aang's character, he's tricky and light like his element, he's not the type to just stand firm and bash something head on.

Plus I love the whole exchange between Zuko and Iroh about Azula: "No, she's crazy and she needs to go down!"

I'm so excited cause this weekend I'm going to have a whole week of incredible Avatar episodes (except the Great Divide) to finish the indoctrination of the boyfriend. The Storm and the Blue Spirit are, for me, when this series begins to cash in on alot of great set up in the first part of the season. Not only is Zuko and Aang's escape one of the best fight scenes in the series, the scene in the trees after Zuko wakes up is incredibly sad and beautiful. I remember watching Aang try and make friends with Zuko and getting that stomach tumbly feeling you only get with great music/tv/movies whatever.

"The Storm" also has that amazing moment during the storm when Aang Avatars out to save them all from drowning, and then as Appa breaks the surface and takes to the skies, he looks back. And he sees Zuko, just watching him go. And I don't know what it is, but I feel like there's so much in that moment, the way it cements the fact that their destines are so intertwined. And they both know it.

Yep. That's got to mess with Zuko's head. He's so indoctrinated into the Fire Nation mindset that he can't really see Aang as anything else but the Avatar and his enemy. Also, the Avatar is the spirit of the world in a mortal form, and Zuko feels like the universe is generally out to get him, maybe some of the antagonism Zuko feels towards Aang is due to Aang basically being the anthropomorphic representation of the world Zuko feels is out to get him. Zuko also seems to think that failure is part of his destiny, so maybe he feels like he is destined to fight a demigod and lose. Or, you know, that a victory against a demigod could finally break his destiny of failure.

Polter-Cow, I absolutely agree - that look between Aang and Zuko at the end of "The Storm" is so meaningful. Though they're clearly antagonists, both of those boys have struggled with their assigned "roles" against the other - and I think it makes both of them sad. Argh, I hope at some point Zuko *does* come to his senses because I want to see him join up with Aang (not just because of the hilarity that would ensue, but that would be fantastic, because seriously, Toph? Would so love bugging Zuko and that would be awesome!). I think Zuko and Aang have much more in common than either would care to admit, and I think they could become friends once they come to an understanding. I actually read a really well-done fanfic once where Zuko accidentally gets jolted into the Spirit World and is hit by all the coincidences in his life - being at the South Pole at the exact moment when Aang's freed from the iceburg, stopping off to get the Pai Sho tile at the same port where Aang encountered the pirates, having fish delivered on the ship from Kyoshi Island, where Aang happened to be at that moment... the end result is that Zuko realizes he and Aang *are* connected but not in the way he thought. Instead of his purpose being to capture Aang, he learns in the Spirit World that he's supposed to be Aang's protector, and that's why they always end up in such close proximity.

Pretty cool concept, I thought. Have no idea if that would ever happen in the show, but the author did a great job of explaining it.:)

I forgot to mention that, as is true for nearly all Avatar moments, the music plays a large role. It's been rising and rising throughout the scene, and it calms down and almost entirely drops out for this one moment. It emphasizes it by de-emphasizing it. On a lesser show, Aang's and Zuko's looks would have been punctuated by stings to show us how important they are.

On the music subject; I really like how certain characters and situations have their own themes. Like the Zuko/Azula chimes that play when something dangerous is going down. Having that background music playing when the Blue Spirit was doing his business made it so much better. Or when Azula was lecturing the Dai Lee. Perfection.

I agree about the music Polter-Cow, the music on this show is excellent and it's used so effectively. The other music moment I really love is in "Siege of the North, Part 2" when Aang merges with the Ocean Spirit and the music goes all choraly. It gives me chills every time.

The Storm and The Blue Spirit are definitely the two episodes that really start to show the depth that the show can go to. When I show it to new people those episodes always get them way more into the show than the preceding episodes. I think it's largely because of the large amounts of character development we get in those two episodes. Up until that point Zuko is an interesting villain, if a bit bumbling. But those two episodes suddenly gave him much more depth than was apparent beforehand. When I was showing the show to a friend of mine she literally gasped when Aang took off the mask and revealed Zuko as the Blue Spirit.

That moment in The Storm where Aang and Zuko see each other is really the beginning of the show starting to parallel those two (well along with the entire episode with their back stories being inter-cut). Most of it takes place in season 2 but there are early hints at it in the first season. I'm still wondering where they're going with that (unless they're just going with the dramatic foil aspect, but I think there's more to it) but I found it really interesting watching it the first time and catching all the parallels they were setting up between Aang and Zuko.

Very good point about the music - it's so wonderful. The guys responsible - "The Track Team" - are amazing. The tsungi horn is their own personal creation - a combo of some sort of brass instrument and an Armenian flute-type instrument. Here is their official site. If you're a lover of the "Avatar" music, here are also a couple of links you might be interested in - both are myspace pages run by the guys behind "The Track Team," and they include several of the songs from "Avatar" (including the music during Zuko and Zhao's Agni Kai, Aang merging with the Ocean Spirit, and Iroh's "Leaves From the Vine/Little Soldier Boy" song):

Myspace page 1

Myspace page 2

Enjoy!

Dear Lord, I think this is now my dream. Without having really researched this, and basing it on random lj caps, I feel like they started to draw Zuko physically different too, after the very first episodes, less caricature-y and cartoon-y.

I only play in the shallow pool, thus the amazing depth of my observations.

I feel the need for more talking on this thread, because Avatar talk is fun. I'll just post a brief description of the various characters on the show and see my interpretation is similar to anyone elses.

Aang- Cheerful, optimistic, and surprisingly un-angsty for someone who has had his entire people killed. Aang is playful but this doesn't stop him from being mature for his age. Aang also decides the groups overall goals and where they should go, but he doesn't appear to take an actual leadership position in the group that much. Aang is definetely in love with Katara.

Katara- Being forced into a parental position at a very young age has sort of messed with Katara a bit, but for the most part she is very well adjusted. Katara shares leadership responsibility of the group with Sokka. Katara loves Aang, but exactly in which way she loves him is debateable (I consider that by the second season finale she's in love with him, but perhaps isn't aware of it)

Sokka- In another enviroment then the one he was raised in Sokka would have been as skilled a warrior as Jet when we were first introduced to him in the South Pole. All the men in Sokka's tribe, the men who could have trained him, were gone so Sokka had to train himself. You might consider Jet to still be superior because Jet had to train himself too, but Sokka had to help support an entire village which doesn't leave much time for training. You should also consider the quality of their weapons: Jet has a fine pair of hook swords, Sokka is limited to spears, clubs, and his trademark boomerang. Thankfully Sokka's quick mind let him pick up new battle skills and tactical abilities as the show went on and he's now pretty awesome.

Toph- Toph is awesome, but you already knew that. Toph seems less concerned with saving the world then the rest of Team Avatar, her initial reasons for joining the team were to get away from her parents, and then later her motives seem more related to the loyalty and friendship she has developed with the team. Her views on bending are also different then the rest of the team's, Sokka views bending as mystical mumbo jumbo that can sometimes be helpful, Aang and Katara view bending as a means to an end, Toph seems to view bending as an end unto itself. While for Aang and Katara learning bending is important to help save the world, Toph seeks to improve her bending so she can be the best earthbender she can be.

I think Aang is too optimistic/cheerful sometimes. I watched season 2 before season 1, so I always figured Katara started out much better at water bending than Aang. So, when she turned out to be worse, or at the same level as Aang I was really confused. The explanation at the beginning of season 2 is something like Katara was more focused while Aang played with his air bending.

Are you kidding me? After a whole season of being hunted, seeing the devastation from the war, and searching for a water bending teacher, Aang couldn't focus? After the biiiiig attack on the Northern water tribe? It bothered me so much because he has no excuse for not taking this seriously. At the beginning of season 1 he had an excuse for the war not to seem real, but at that point he should have been desperate to learn. Which I thought he was until the beginning of season 2.

So mature for his age but not as mature as I'd think he'd be with everything he's seen and gone through.

FINALLY.

It's only five discs! That must mean they shoved five episodes onto each disc this time. Has anyone gotten the individual discs? Did they have their own special features like before? Or is everything on the bonus disc?

I guess the September 11 release date means we won't be seeing season three till, like, fucking October.

I really like the cover art: big glowing Aang, Toph just being there, Sokka holding Suki, sleeve-less shaggy haired Zuko, and Katara with her hair undone and flowing behind her. Sweet. Though I do wish they could have found room for Ozai's Angels. Ah well.

Sweet! I want that like, now. Sept is too far away. *pouts*

Yeah, I bought the individual discs. Right now I only have the first 2, and there are indeed five episodes per disc. Also Disc two has audio commentary. I now sort of regret my decision to be an impatient-not-waiting-guy, because how am I going to get that awesome bonus disc that will surely come with the box set?

I love that cover art. It's like something out of 1940's hollywood.

I love the art! It's so nicely done, and it kind of mirrors the composition of the Complete Season 1 Collection, which I think is a nice nod.:)

I can't wait to buy the DVDs. I'm going to start saving money for it right now.

I really like how the cover background is green representing the Earth kingdom.

I just check the out from my library (lovely, lovely library) so I won't feel burned if I do decided to get the boxed set. However, I'm wondering is there someplace that shows you the art for the individual DVDs (for the first book too). I really like it. Also, is the boxed set art the same as the individual DVDs or do they change it?

The boxed set - at least the one for Season 1 - had all the DVD covers of the individual releases printed on the DVDs themselves, if that makes any sense. I'm imagining they'll do something similar this time around.:)