I realize that neither team was supposed to come up with a 'finished product' for the ads, but didn't they seem like really bad commercials from formerly eastern bloc countries?

The ad that Dove went with didn't make me want to buy it either, though, so I wonder what all this 'thinking outside the box' was all about? showgirls with feathers?? yaawwwnnnn....

Pitchforks and mobs? I think you meant last hot donut at the Krispy Kreme.



Regarding the controversy over the sexy Marquis Jets campaign versus the sexy Dove Body Wash campaign: Two different clients and two different target markets. What is appropriate for one is not necessarily appropriate for the other. Marquis Jets is a selling image (money, private jets) to a mostly male demographic. Dove Body Wash is selling cleanliness and a refreshing alternative to soap to a mostly female demographic (“mostly” so don’t start posting that you’re a man and use body wash).

The MJ ad was asking, “Can you fit?” with a double-entendre; asking if you can “fit” into the private jet lifestyle and using a faux-European hip-sophisticate angle to do so. This angle is not necessarily inappropriate for the market.

Veggie porn for a body wash used in the shower has too many self-love implications. It’s scented soap, people! That’s like selling moisturizing lotion with the tagline that it makes a great lubricant – wrong message, wrong market, wrong demographic – unless you want to switch your market from people with dry hands to teenage boys with surging hormones and a handy magazine.

The sex angle didn’t kill them. The inappropriate sexual nature of the commercial for the market killed Magna. The Marquis Jet ads were sexual, but in a way that could be deemed appropriate for that product.

Strictly regarding game-play, I was pleased to see that John understood that the point of the commercial was to please DD, and nothing more or less than that. He's shown people skills, and now a remarkable ability to understand what is really going on. As it says in the FAQ, he really is a misfit.

Also, Bren seems to get the game as well. After living through this week, I have to think he'll live a long time before utlitmately getting canned because he's not good looking enough for this fake job.

Agreed, but when Donnie tells them to make a 30-minute movie that would grab your attention, wouldn't Magna ALSO think that what they were doing would please Donnie?

But Marquis Jet, or at least one of their major employees, had no use for the ad campaign. He said that he never would have never approved that ad. I think Miss Alli mentioned this in her recap of that episode. It was Douchebag who liked the ad. He didn't really seem to care whether the ad fit the company or not. He just liked whatever gave him a woody.



When the ladies openly admitted the campaign was pure sex, and went out of their way to have images that mimicked sexual situations, I really can't see how any of that was a double entendre. It was just plain entendred, and something that I have never seen in any kind of airline advertisement.



Kristen doesn't look that out of shape to me, I think it's just her body type. She's tall and probably naturally curvy. Her harsh makeup and her ugly clothing choices are the problem. She dresses much too young for her age.



He's no less attractive than beady-eyed Kelly. And I think that this week was a major black mark for him, especially the way that he ran from his idea in the BR. He's lucky that he has at least 2 team members to hide behind (Erin and Michael). I think he is safe until they go.

I agree with the major employee. I wouldn't have used it either. There ARE high-level female executives out there (though one less w/ Carly's departure) who might want to "fit into" the private jet lifestyle and I wouldn't want to alienate potential customers. I'm just saying the ad weren't as totally off the mark as the veggie porn ad was.

I don't remember, was Donnie alone for the Marquis Jet ad judging? I've noticed the last two seasons, when called upon to judge, he has brought two female executives in with him. Don't any men work for him? Perhaps he brings women because he got scorched on choosing the "Can you fit?" campaign in TA1.

No, he wasn't. I know there was at least one woman there, and I can't remember if the other was a man.

My point was that Douchebag chooses based on what he wants, not what is best for the company. Due to that, and the hazy guidelines, Magna had no idea that their gay theme was going to be so unacceptable. So the ranting and raving from Douchebag and Trump and Douche's hagettes about how "unacceptable" the commercial was and how it was "porn" and crossed the line fell really flat for me. These people have no consistency and they prove it again and again. I still can't get over that woman who seemed to think that her husband would run off with another man if he saw the commercial. Someone who is that paranoid and that self-involved has no business judging anything beyond her therapy bills.

The televised ad that Protege made as part of their portfolio was used by Marqiuis Jet. But other than that, ya.

Especially when "it was poorly made" was such a better (and easier) argument to make.

Hey, she knows her husband better than we do. Maybe that's a real concern for her.

Perhaps she should lay in a supply of Herbal Essence and have her cable company put a block on Bravo.

Thanks Conan Grammarian for a great explanation of what was wrong with the Magna ad. You can't use soft porn, gay or otherwise, to sell Dove bodywash. It doesn't work. It completely misses both the product and the target audience. The Marquis Jet case? Completely different (though I still think the underlying assumption there was a bit dated). The lesson here I think is that sometimes you can sell a product with sexual imagery. Other times, not so much.

As much as I hate to defend Deustchbag, didn't he say that he was less concern about the gay thing and more about not delivering the message? While he did say that he wasn't crazy about the gay part, I remember saying that he was more upset about how the commerical never should what the product even does. That's what I thought pissed him off about both commericals: they didn't even know the product.

Tegan Jovanka, I curious. If you were Donny, are you saying that you would have picked Magna's commercial? I personally thought both sucked big time, but that's just me. I can see why some people like it, I hated it as much as NetWorth's, not for the gay bit in the end, but because of how poorly it was made and how the cucumber thing would never get passed the FCC. So I was just wondering if you saw potential in Magna's commerical. Maybe I'm just missing the humor in it.

David Ogilvy (a god to the advertising industry) cautioned about using sex to sell. He recounts the time he used nudity in one of his early ads and it bombed. In his book, Ogilvy on Advertising, he gives examples of effective ads that use sex, as well as ads (European) that use nudity but not sex. His advice is that if the sex/nudity is not directly related to the product's performance, don't use it. It's an old book, but the advice is sound.

I agree the concept of the MJ ads was very dated (see Hefner, Hugh). But the product was not anathema to a little suggestive innuendo. Body wash is.

I still say the MJ team (Protege?) should have targeted a couple of the ads at the women executives/heiresses that might want a private jet. Based upon Erin's performance with the male model, women can be just as disgustingly down in the gutter as men.



Wait until Hooters Air starts an ad campaign.

But (and please, correct me if I'm remembering wrong here) didn't Donnie open up by pretty much telling them to just do mini-movies?

I don't recall him ever telling them to know the product, until he ripped them for it.

Wait. One of the gods to the advertising industry once made the same mistake as a bunch of lawyers and so forth? I'm just saying.

I do think the product placement is getting a bit too fucking heavy-handed these days. I also think, as pointed out upthread, that it's backfiring woefully. The lame Net Worth "Taster's Choice" thing with guys making mock election speeches didn't make me want any freeze-dried coffee (anything rather) and all the talk in the board room about how "disgusting" it was that the guys in the Net Worth commercial didn't wash off the bodywash and how gross it was that they put that goop on their faces certainly didn't engender any longing in my soul to try their product.

I can see why Carolyn and DT had to do that fearfully contrived thing at the end about how wonderful is Dove and how great their (stupid and nauseating despite Miss Piggy) commercial really was, but by then it was too late. Dove body wash: Disgusting goo! You don't want thatshit on your face! Eeeeew, what are you thinking, wash it off. Thanks, Carolyn and Trump! Even Miss Piggy can't save it now. Certainly a lot of startling images of women with cucumber slices over their eyes (making them look momentarily like weird, dead things) isn't going to fix the problem.

Comparatively, Net Worth damaged the product far more than Magna. Like others, I never really got John's 'concept' either and I couldn't visualize what he meant, but even Kristen's cable access advertising didn't do the job on Dove bodywash that the board room and Deutsch did, all "eeeeew, gross! Dove!"

I kind of think the whole task was a setup.. I don't know the time frame but it appears they they were given a couple days, as most, to write and film a commercial with a very low budget (direct and edit it themselves?) Who really knows how to do that. But the key for me is Douche gave them the task and said "be crazy, be out of the box, film a 30 second movie", practically daring them to come up with something so outrageous that they would look ridiculous for it. And Magna came through for them with their ad.

Meantime Kristen so horribly honked a rather "in the box" idea that it came down to nobody wins. I don't blame Magna for coming up with or even using the idea.. Not hashing it out more, and stepping back to think about it more critically was a problem.. And I think they have problems in that area. Danny set them up as a hippie team, and they are now victims of it.. Not wanting to criticize, etc.

I didn't see the "actual" ad they ended up running but.. I'm not sure the marathon joke would have been all that great.. I don't know that people want their body wash to be funny. What I didn't understand was how you could really successfully have an image of a person in running gear washing his or her body with the product. Even if you show them using it properly and rinsing.. They're still sopping wet..

My solution would have been to maybe establish that it's a a more local race, a husband and wife at the start line, "Well honey, it's your first marathon, good luck." He starts his watch and runs off, while she leisurely begins the race.. Show "Mile 18" and she is all sweaty and huffing and puffing, in a Seinfeld rip-off, accidentally grabs the body wash instead of a water. She opens the cap but notices it's not water, sniffs it, and starts slowing down, but she appears refreshed and excited.. People are running by her as she turns back and jobs toward the water people, jettisonning her shirt (jog bra underneath of course). Camera cuts to the crowd suddenly gasping, then her running outfit on the ground.. Cut again to mile 26 (title), and a crowd of people gathered along the road near the finish, cheering..Cut to the heroine's bare feet running briskly..Then cit again, your camera POV is from the sidewalk, behind the crowd, dollying quickly with our heroine.. You know she's naked but you certainly can't see anything.. She happily finishes the race..she doesn't even have to win it.. she's just happy and clean; her husband is embarassed or angry and covers her with a towel, maybe freeze frame with a tagline "No need to feel dirty" or something along those lines. I'm no pro, and no woman either but.. it seems women like baths.. or at least the target audience does.. they like to feel clean and the ad gets across the message that Dove body wash will make you feel clean, even if you're in a situation that would normally seem "dirty" (in a sexual sense). THAT'S how clean the soap makes you feel. If you take care not to objectify the woman in the way you shoot it, I think it would appeal... And it crosses over to men because they will like anything involving a disrobed woman; "I think I saw her boob through the crowd, man!"


Regading the ep.. I also loved George just baiting Chris.. "You've been uncharacteristically quiet, Chris"?? Awesome. I couldn't believe he did that, and prepared for the eruption.. And it came. More Chris outbursts! I thought the first was was awkwardly edited and it confused me.. Later I was able to laugh at it. Now it's just a total joke.. I'm not too worried for him, it's not like the viewers are voting on who wins based on what we see in the edits.

Audrey remains my favorite, the Deutsch love notwithstanding. I'm also not a fan of people interrupting in the boardroom, but when you're interrupting the kind of inane garbage Kristen was spewing, well.. By all means. Angela rubs me the wrong way.. The "in the box...is the box" tirade was unfunny and the hair is impossible for me to look beyond.

A good thing about the marketing tasks this season is that the firings are more based on leadership than ideas or success in the task. Like Erin said (a good point in what I consider to be highly overrated boardroom skills), she doesn't know how to film commercials; none of them should be expected to. But Trump fired the person who failed to lead, which is a more important issue for what he's allegedly looking for in an Apprentice, rather than just "who can film the best commercial or come up with the best idea for a promotion."

You are right. He didn't tell the group to do that. But I kind of think that it pretty straight forward to know your product. I mean, how can you do a good job, if you barely know the product? And I think that you should at least show the product being used. A spilt second of someone washing themselves with the body wash would work. Magna never showed that and someone who doesn't know what Dove is would wonder what the hell does it do?

Now that I think about it, do restaraunts always have body wash in the back?

Oh, why bother? I agree, Donny pretty much fucked everything up. With the NYPD thing, he told the groups that he wanted something to touch everyone in the heart. This one, he came and then he went. I'm just going to blame everyone on the show for this fiasco.

I agree but the subtle homophobia from some of the Apprenti, Bren and SchizoOutburstBoy, and even Erin "Will and Grace is Representative of All Gay Culture" irked me to no end.



ETA: HA!

Yes, I saw potential. I thought the ad was weak, but these were not professional admakers. The idea itself was amusing. They had a few days to throw together an ad with very vague guidelines and no proper instruction. People say "oh well they should have known Dove wouldn't tolerate such antics, it's body wash, body wash is not sexual" but look at how popular the Herbal Essences orgasm ad was. Did you ever think that Clairol would have an ad with a woman in full orgasm? If the cucumber element had been toned down or removed, and the scenes with the chef and the diva actress had been a bit less bump-and-grindy, then I think the ad would have been adequate. Not anything which would generate huge sales, but who would be dumb enough to expect amateurs to come up with an ad in 2-3 days that would generate huge sales for them? If I had been Donnie I would've said, "both of these ads have major problems, but we can't expect a masterpiece. Going on the basis of sticking with a creative idea and working well together as a team, Magna wins." I don't think it was fair for Douchebag to judge these teams on such high standards of morality when he basically handed them the task out of the blue and told them to go crazy.



Erin never said W&G is representative of all gay culture. Erin said that W&G is popular with straight women, and that was why she felt that gay images can be a hit with straight women. Whether we like Erin or not, she is right that to the media and to advertisers, the stereotypes of W&G or Queer Eye are gay culture, and both shows are popular with straight women (moreso than men, gay or straight). Her pointing this out was not homophobia IMHO. I got the sense that she was the only one of the major participants in the BR who was remotely supportive of gays and was even chagrined to see the people around her resorting to gay-bashing just because of such a corny little ad.

Re: Protege's Marquis ad...if I sit back and look at every element of the campaign, I can see that a few of the aspects may have appealed to a company. But they were assisted by professional photographers and seemed to have greater resources than these teams. The way that Magna and Net Worth were treated was reminiscent of the Soup Nazi. "No reward for you!" What was expected of them could never be delivered, and that's why I think the people who feel this was all a setup to make both teams lose may be right. Either way, it was a tacky way to treat them.

What's funny to me that if we forget for a moment about what the"cucumber" commercial is for, and focus on the actual execution, out of context, the thing was wrong and unclear anyway for a very simple reason: If the whole gist of the ad was that the cook turned out to be gay (SHOCKING TWIST!!!!), they should've used a model that looked like the archetype/stereotype of the scruffy,sloppy, masculine macho cook...then the revelation that he was gay would've been effective...after all, most people usually don't associate macho stereotypes with gayness... (YEs, I know there are TONS of masculine, scruffy gay men...but I'm talking about archetypes that middle America is familiar with, and the Advertising World uses all those archetypes to sell product all the time)

The cook looked like a slightly androgynous girl...thus the "twist" basically fizzles out...

And they should've shown the hunky guy he ends up with, before the revelation, maybe working in the background (though they also should've made him look less like a male model and more like an archetypal, macho-looking cook)

Moot point anyway, I know...after all, in context, the commercial simply doesn't work.
It doesn't show the result of what the product does and it simply doesn't convince the target market to buy it.

A woman ends up alone, her intended romantic target leaves her for another man and she is left with a cucumber?
yeah, that will make women go out and buy the product in droves....LOL!!!

Big fat word to that Tegan, you little Aussie minx, you.

This irritates me on two levels. Firstly, that Alex was too busy cowering in the closet to step up and defend the gay content of the ad. Either that or he was sitting there in his own little world planning which over-designed jacket he was going to model for his next confessional, or wondering if he should wax his chest again.

And secondly. It made me want to like Erin. Ewww! In the boardroom, she's this hyper articulate, intelligent, fearless creature. Outside? A fluffy pink wearing, boy-crazy, badly dressed dink.

It's like she has an evil twin who does the tasks, and who is saved by 'Good' Erin in the boardroom. I wish she'd just stick to one persona, it makes it very confusing when you don't know whether you love her or hate her.

Enough with these multi-dimensional characters! Give me a nice caricature (like Danny or Angie), so I know where I stand!

Deutsch explicitly said that he wanted the ad to be "an extravaganza".

Extravaganza (def.): any lavishly staged or spectacular entertainment

Were either of these ads "lavish" or "spectacular". I don't think so. Deutsch wanted this to be BIG and FUN, not SMALL and SLEAZY.

Just because someone says the words "out of the box" or "edgy" doesn't mean that anything at all goes. You still have to pay attention to the OTHER instructions, and the AUDIENCE and the PRODUCT.

So:

1. Neither ad did what Deutsch told them to do (and, just as a practical matter, he IS the person they have to satisfy).
2. Neither ad addressed the target audience.
3. Neither ad showed the product in a positive light.

The Magna ad MIGHT have been OK to some degree if it was aimed at a young urban audience, for example. But this product is marketed to red state housewives, for gods sake. I don't think that Trump and/or Deutsch were being the least bit homophobic, they just knew that this ad was WRONG for the target audience, and wrong in light of the current culture.

These were two totally clueless ads. I don't even credit the Net Worth idea for being funny. Even if it had been executed properly, it still missed the point completely.

Neither one of those ads deserves an ounce of praise. They were both cringeworthy.

Don't forget that Erin's goal from the beginning has been to show that sexy women can have intelligence and an impact in the business world. I think she's also showing that women don't have to be sexy in the boardroom or "all business, no softness" while working hard at their job or play. As much as I hate to admit it, I was very impressed with Erin as PM. While I don't think she will get the job in the end I could see her making F4. And if someone were smart they might bring her back to help with their project in F2. Let's just hope she doesn't plan to launch a new 'Bathmat clothing' line at the end of it all!

ITA, hengist, and that's my problem with the work done by both teams. I cannot believe no one on Magna's team said, "This might be "edgy and out of the box" but what does it have to do with body wash?" I cannot believe no one at Net Worth noticed how gross it was that runningman was just wiping the goop off his face with a towel and no "refreshing" water.

I understand being rushed and maybe we were not shown that the "directors"/PM's were not letting anyone edit or critique their final products but both these ads were just STOO. PID. and did not show the product in a positive way.

BTW, does Chris have only two volumes....silent and loudly indignant!?!

I absolutely agree with Girlnextdoor that Erin's behavior has so far been quite professional, and there is no need to critisize her based on her appearance only. IMO, she was a bit hypocritical in the episode with Verna, but has always been professional and articulate in the Boardroom. In fact, I was really disturbed that we weren't shown more of her work as a PM in the "cucumber" task. Apparently she did not do badly as a team leader, as her team did not say a single bad word about her in the BR (very rare in these situations indeed!). Even the Donald admitted that she had displayed excellent leadership qualities and kept her difficult team together (although the quality of the final product was questionable, but that is another matter).



Braxton Hicks, I agree with most of your posts, and thanks for letting us know more about the advertising world. But here, in the quote about Erin, I noticed that her professional qualities (positive or negative) are mentioned in case of her BR behavior, but for the outside, her ways of dressing are enumerated. What have these to do with the professional performance of women or men? It is quite disturbing that in case of intelligent and good-looking women who work in a competitive environment, the appearance of these women (including the color of their clothing and the length of their hair) becomes a very important criterion for discussion and judgement. One never really hears such things about men; they are much more characterized by their job skills and actual performance. Kind of double standards, it seems. And then we are surprised that some "bimbo" consistently seems to produce good results at work. But what else can we think with all that editing that shows Erin rubbing some hunky(?) model's abs as her only significant PM activity?

This is not really true here at TWoP, sll, if you think about it. Look how we snarked on Danny's stupid polyester leisure suits, Bren's crooked bowties, Raj's pretentiousness, etc. IMHO, we mention the "ladies" appearance more overall because the guys have usually conformed to what we think of a "normal" business & leisure attire for corporate types.

And, it's not always snarky. Remember how we noted the sharply dressed Kwame and his multitude of great ties. Of course, we ladies were always rooting for him to appear in nothing...well, except boxers, of course!

Yes, Blondie, I agree with the Kwame part (except the boxers)–but again, as you point out, that attention was generally positive. And Bren has mostly been characterized as a “charming Southern gentleman” with his cute bow ties in the TWoP, if I’m not mistaken. Erin has never intentionally dressed provocatively for the BR or the tasks, very differently from Raj, for example. She is not bad looking and is not afraid to show it and be herself (I much rather prefer that to the artificial “50's naughty librarian look” of Jen C. who looked exactly the same in every task and BR, desperately afraid to “let her hair down”). My point was that I would not dismiss Erin just because she looks colorful (but not inappropriate) and occasionally wears pink and light blue, or be so surprised that she can sound brilliant in the BR. And also, that people have a right to their sense of style (even Jen C.) and that should not be seen as defining their work performance.

I don't agree with this at all. Men in business wear uniforms: suit jacket, suit pants, dark socks, polished shoes, pastel shirt, long tie, small selection of colors. Stray from that and you're going to get comments, and they aren't going to be good ones. Stray too far and you don't get jobs or promotions.

Women have more latitude, but that latitude isn't infinite, and it's fair game to comment if the women goes too far over the edge. Pink fluffy bath towels? No.

As for the "boy crazy" part of the comment: I can't begin to imagine the uproar on this board if one of the male PMs had soaped up a female actress. Eric got cut a lot more slack than she deserved for that tacky display (I can see the "sexual harrassment" comments now), and again, it's fair game.

Erin could be the be-all and end-all of efficiency, capability, and business acumen.

But those outfits would still be notably fug. And would still be snarked on, as such. Although the tone would probably be more along the lines of "Why does this amazingly capable, articulate, intelligent woman insist on dressing like a nightmare?"

Likewise Danny. Had he proven to be the most outstanding, stellar, quick-thinking Apprentice contestant in history, we still would have snarked him mercilessly for the scruffy 'do and the hippie-wear.

Alas, and as much as I personally hate that this is true: image matters; and on this show, it sometimes matters more than actual ability.

(Also? If Bren is a "charming southern gentleman", I am an Emperor penguin. YMMV.)

Well, that's what the TWoP boards say, anyway... I actually agree.

Anyone heard of Danny? He was mercilessly ridiculed for his sartorial excesses. Raj took quite a beating as well.

Like Erin, he chose to make his fashion sense a personal statement. She wears pink and pastels to "fool" everyone into thinking she's an intellectual lightweight - not a smart strategy in business. Only one woman that I know of has succeeded in the corporate world wearing pink (former CEO of Mattel - the pink suits didn't help when stock prices dropped). Mary Kay doesn't count 'cause she founded the company.

Bren, too, is going to discover that his bowties and that decidedly unstylish 'do (what is that, a balding mullet?) will require him to perform far above others to be judged equally competent. Remember that Raj toned down his appearance when it attracted the wrong attention.

Folks that dress outlandishly and think they're fooling others into underestimating them don't realize they're also putting themselves at a disadvantage. They have to work harder than the rest of us to be judged just as competent.

Like it or not, the way we look is the only way people have of judging us without getting to know us.

Erin likes to say she dresses like Legal Barbie to disarm people - so they'll think she's not an intellectual and she can take advantage of them. She doesn't seem to understand that in a corporate setting, she runs the risk that TPTB are not going to try to get to know her before coming to conclusions about her competence. TPTB don't have time to sit down and discuss her feelings with her when they're looking for a lawyer [or a business manager].

I don't know about TPTB, but if I'm facing the death penalty or an SEC audit, I want a lawyer that looks like she shops in the big girls' department.



I think you're safe. Although Bren did a good job with Hysterical Actress last week, he's not the charmer he thinks he is. And simply having a pile of money does not make a gentleman - especially a Southern one.

Well, sll. I was all ready to defend myself, and then everybody else jumped in before me. Thank you Blondie, hengist and Iamgladys.

A couple more points. Add Alex to the list of men whose wardrobe choices are being ridiculed. In his thread on the 'Current Apprentices' Board, every 'metrosexual' item of clothing he owns is being snarked to oblivion.

Likewise Craig's afro, Donnie's skin-tight nipple-acious T-shirts, Trumps hair. In fact, Erin is the only female cast member whose wardrobe is getting any serious flak.

And it's not just the fact that she dresses like 'My little Pony'. It's also the fact that we've seen her be irritatingly girly at times, and then a boardroom shark at others.

'Boo-Hoo!' says SillyErin, as her ugg boots land on Danny's bed 'I don't want anyone to be hurt'
'I will sue anyone' says BoardroomErin 'regardless of their gender'

'All contracts have out clauses' says BoardroomErin 'Michael's exemption should be waived according to the Blechman vs Tregelhoff 1974 ruling'
'OOh!' says SillyErin 'look at the abs on this hunk (giggle)"

I'm telling you.

Evil Twin.

PLUS. She admitted to having urges to wear head to toe pink at all times. Bad.

PLUS. This is TWoP. If we're not here to snark about the meaningless, superficial things, then our very reason for existence is in peril. No?

Yes, these phenomena have been discussed, but nobody is really implying that these people don't know how to do their job, because some of their external attributes look kinda stupid (actually, I like Donald's hair). I didn't get an impression that Erin had worn something inappropriate in the BR (but maybe I was not following too closely). Anyway, that is a sad truth, as some of you point out--women who have the misfortune to look sexy (and not to be total cold bitches), often have to work three times as hard to be taken seriously (although I prefer Erin to Hannibal Kristin any time).

"Extravaganza" or "lavish" is a very loose description, especially when you have very little money or time to produce an ad and you have never done anything in the advertising market. I'm sure these teams felt they WERE making an extravaganza. And the real Dove ad we saw was certainly not lavish or spectacular. It looked like a bad Right Said Fred video. Not to mention that based on Douchebag's past lousy choices (eg, the Protege ad campaign), the teams may have thought they WERE being spectacular. This was the best that you could expect out on amateurs who had so few resources and absolutely no guidance. Douchebag probably set them up to fail.

sll, I have defended Erin fairly frequently over the past week (after disliking her the first 3 weeks) and I agree that she did a better job as PM than she's being given credit for. But I think that she wants to get attention, derision, for her wardrobe. We should have seen more footage of her as PM, true, but the show no longer wants us to see people doing a good job as PM, or even an adequate job. They only want to showcase failures and trainwrecks because they think the audience is too stupid to enjoy anything else. Why do you think they showed so little of Angie as PM?

I think the reason that Erin gets criticism is because she has an out there wardrobe and hairstyle for the business world, and also because of her behavior in the first week (throwing herself on the bed and sobbing). Some of the criticism may be unfair, but I think that she probably enjoys inviting attention, positive or negative. I do agree w/you that Bren is really no better than she is, and may even be worse.

I don't dislike Erin for the way she dresses ever; I think I just having problems overcoming my first impression of her. I still remember her as the girl who couldn't figure out how to push the "Whopper" button on the cash register. Also, as the girl who threw herself on Todd's bed and "cried." I think she is smart, but like Bren, there something sneaky about her.

That was the reason why I never boarded the Sandy love train last year. I had a bad first impression of her. I might finally get over Erin though. Remeber how long it took people to finally forgive Andy for his shovel remark?

How much guidance do you need for selling soap? Everyone uses it, everyone already knows the brand. And they had Douche agency folks to help them. Did you prefer that they get a blueprint?

TA1 had the jet ads. TA2 did the NYPD recruitment ads. Both previous team's results were spectacularly better than TA3's suck-ass performances on this episode. (I particularly loved Andy's ad).

The teams are supposed to come up with creative ideas, recognize them and implement them, using the agency's staff to help them with the production.

My mouth was hanging open at TA3's team's results. Craptastic doesn't even begin to describe the shittiness of their ads. And it wasn't due to lack of guidance or experience. It was laziness. We've joked and joked about TA2's incessant brainstorming sessions with each task. These guys can't even get a sprinkle going. More like a lame drip in the fuckin' Sahara desert.

With each task I see that most these contestants are playing things very FUTR. Either that or this is the dumbest, laziest, least creative group of fame-ho's I've ever seen. And I'm old and jaded.

It was said before, and bears re-saying:

Consider your audience. Dove is not going to like porn, but Donny might have. Dove might have gone for a funny marathon, but Donny didn't care for the unfunny one. But bottom line, pitching that cucumber commercial for Dove was not well-chosen. The sexy angle could have come without it being sex. It's a fine line, and Braxton Hicks might be able to elucidate, but basically, Herbal Essences sells sexy with their orgasmmercials. There's no fondling of phallic vegetables nor guys hanging on one another. Rubbing a foamy cucumber is sex, not sexy, and it's not suitable for Dove.

A public speaking coach told me once, that if you are speaking to the NAACP at a lecture, you don't wax poetic about the virtues of the Great White Race. Nor should you pitch gay vegetable porn to Dove.

After nearly a week, several viewings of the show, and reading all of the episode thread, I still have one question:

Why would a chef use body wash to clean a cucumber?

Am I missing something? All the homoerotic, double entendres aside, the concept simply doesn't make a lick of sense. Did the cook decide that the body wash did such a fabulous job of cleaning the cucumber that he would take it home and try it on his naughty bits? I'm just lost.

I've made my share of snarky comments about Erin's pink bathmat poncho & fUGGly boots. As far as I can remember (I'm blonde after all), she has worn appropriate attire to the BR. Her wardrobe is not the reason I don't like her. It's just a reason I like to make fun of her here with other TWoPers...HA!

What I get from Erin throughout this season so far is her overconfidence about how "fabulous" she is. She has nice thick, long hair but that's it as far as I can see. She's not really pretty in the face and her constant overdone mugging for the camera is getting on my last nerve. I haven't seen her be that compelling in the BR. Others here have pointed out some glaring grammatical errors. The "soaping up the actor" thing on camera was just low-class trashy.

I just get flashbacks of girls I knew like her in my college sorority. They hung out with the really Pretty, popular girls and had just enough money and/or talent to be on the "Edge of In Crowd." Because of this, they developed this smirky, I'm-too-sexy-for-You! attitude which ruined their appeal. What those girls never seemed to get was that the truly "beautiful" girls had an attractive exterior but mostly were very sweet, friendly, open ppl who never acted superior to anyone and didn't think they were All That!

Erin gives me that "Edge of the In Crowd" vibe. I'll just have to wait & see if she does anything to change my mind.

Lucabella - I think the idea was that Dove's bodywash is scented like cucumbers, and that the cook was smelling the scent of the woman assistant (you could see him overacting by seeming to get a whiff of her). It seemed to make him a little -ummm...excited.

That's probably why they had him run off with his lover, carrying the Dove bodywash.

Don't see many of such women on the Apprentice--or in that matter, in today's business environment--which requires personality, agressiveness, courage. I think Erin was trying to reach out to others, actually, maybe even being too open and naive at times.

And of course, I agree, it is nice if a woman is sweet, soft, friendly, unambitious, and non-confrontational.

Well, if you insist.

I actually think that either or the teams original concepts could have worked if they had been executed with enough deftness. It was the heavy-handed and clumsy way that the ads came out that was the problem. Yes, the gay vegetable porn idea is pushing it a little, but as we've already mentioned, subtle sexual inneuendo (gay or straight) is found throughout advertising, even for seemingly mainstream products.

The ad, however, was not subtle. It was crass. And that's why it failed. If it had been well shot and edited with the cucumber innuendo seriously reduced (to near subliminal levels), it might have been a funny, unexpected spot.

Instead we got 'Debbie Does Dove'.

Can you imagine how the Magna Team would have shot the Herbal Essences campaign? I'm trying not to, but the classy English phrase 'Soapy Tit Wank', is about as close as I can get.

I fail to see how an engine passed off as a vagina passed off with a "can you fit it in?" caption and shots of planes made up to look like erect penises was "spectacularly" better than what Magna did. And Jason from Versacorp had advertising experience, which these players did not, at least none on Magna. There's no point in comparing this to the NYPD task because it was pretty obvious what was expected with the NYPD. He didn't tell them to go "lavish" or imply to them that they'd better do something hot with the NYPD. The Dove ad was far more vague.

I didn't see any real help from Douchebag's agency. They had a studio and actors, and editing facilities, but that seemed to be about it. I think that people who have zero experience probably DO need some help if they are supposed to create a "lavish" or "extravaganza" style ad. If you were a major company would you really expect total amateurs with little money and even less time to come up with something? Even Dove itself came up with an ad that was shitty, so if they couldn't figure out what to do, how in the world were these teams supposed to? Any company that pitches for a reality TV-created ad campaign would be foolish to expect arch-conservative results.

The problem with saying "how much help do you need selling soap" is that they didn't know who they were supposed to be pitching to, Douchebag or Dove. In the past, Douchebag has approved ad campaigns that the company itself wasn't that thrilled by (like Protege's plane porn). So how was Magna supposed to know that a safe, boring, generic Dove ad would be approved by Douche? Remember Versacorp's safe, sedate ad for Marquis, which was rejected by Douche in favor of the women acting like rejects from the Kit Kat Club? My guess is that if they had done a Herbal Essences-style ad, several people here and elsewhere would have railed against them for pornography, because that ad, when it first came out, was assailed as being too smutty for audiences. Yet it was a big success, in spite of the supposedly conservative soap standards.

If you take out the cucumber and tone down the cheese content slightly, than Magna's ad wasn't that bad. It certainly wasn't this devastating failure or a huge pornographic disgrace. And if Douchebag had gone by the standards he set, instead of telling them to do something and then blasting them for trying to do what he wanted, he would have given the win to Magna, with reservations.

And I'm really not sure how you classify 2 fully clothed men walking out of a room together as sex, but a naked woman alone in the shower having orgasms with her shampoo bottle as not sex.

Way too much talk about the boards on the boards in the last couple of pages. Please don't do that. Your opinion of what's being said on the boards is not the topic, and I don't want to hear it. Thanks.

Thanks, microgirl. I guess it's just such an incredibly stupid concept that my brain refuses to process it. My recollection is that they were washing the cucumber with the body wash, which really makes no sense at all. However, I just watched the Yahoo clip and realized that was not the case. Still stupid, though. Gah.

And wasn't Erin the one who pitched the biggest fit when Michael suggested using "European models" to sell Taster's Choice? Kind of hypocritical, IMO.



Hee!

Okay so the marathon commercial WAS stupid and I did agree that it was stupid to show the body wash being used on the face. But then Dove comes out with their OWN commercial that shows the exact same thing??!! The whole commercial is before and after, before with makeup, after without. Basically implying that the body wash goes ON YOUR FACE. Why rip on a team for having a dumb idea and then use the idea?

Tethys77 : I was thinking he same thing - how LAME the real Dove add was. They did exactly what Net Worth was reamed for (using body wash on the face). I think all three commercials SUCKED!

Well, I guess that's a fair argument. He needs a new haircut, immediately. In the picture below, he actually looks like he should be wearing a racing uniform with a big STP logo on it rather than a suit. I still don't think he's good looking enough to win this fake job, but I'll change my statement by adding, "provided that there is a better option."

Picking Kelly in season two was a lot like being forced to pick one of the two crappy commercials this week. I'm trying to erase that season from my memory when thinking about what might happen in this season.

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/tv/appre.../bren/bren7.jpg

I think they were reamed for using body wash on the face and not using water to wash it off. Just wiping it off with a dry towel or worse a towel used for perspiration from running.