Magna's ad brought out the whole uptight merketing exec vibe, a la the [/B]Fly Me! commercial in [B]All That Jazz!. Also, made me laff like a purposely-bad Second City TV or FNL skit: "OH! What a Zucchini!" So I loved it a little, just from nostalgia. And PS: I liked the stark dark/brightness of the Magna ad.

It's also burned up the Boards here. So, Dove got it's dull safe commercial and a bit of hype for its gay-porn commercial too.

Regarding Dove's demographics: Sure, Dove is mainly purchased by women in their 30s to, um 90s. If they aired a gay themed commercial in urban markets and on gay-open broadcasts (Bravo channel, Queer Eye shows) it could create a new demographic for them. Dove could just declaim, as said upthread: Hey, gay people bathe too!"

As to the commercial itself, the Erin rubdown of the male model was ewww! gratuitous. But! also hilarious. If they had vetted the concept with the model and he was cool with it, would have been a pretty good commercial in and of itself: She as director, or prop lady, stepping in to artfully 'arrange' the suds on the model and then just getting wildly carried away. And then an impromptu stage crew soap party!" heh. so not so very much about Dove cucumber-fresh body wash. But fun and non-PC like a beer commercial. With even more of the Fly Me! vibe.

That might be so. It has never occurred to me, because I've never given it any thought or paid any attention to their boring and bland commercials before the one they showed at the end of the show. I wouldn't have known anything going into that task that I wasn't told. Why should I? I'm a lawyer, not a marketing expert.

If someone gave me instructions to make an ad and said it had to be something "edgy" I would have the hell of a time thinking how to make a body wash "edgy" or different from all of the other commercials for similar products. The Herbal Essence commercial was fucking brilliant and I might have thought of that (and particularly if I was supposed to make something out of the fact that it contained cucumbers, and I infer from the stupid real Dove ad they showed at the end that the cucumber aspect might have been important).

I didn't see that either team was given the chance this time to find out what the executives wanted (in contrast to Maquis jet). All we saw were Deutsch and his gremlins telling them that it had to be out there and not a cliche etc. etc.

They showed Magna's commercial on the Apprentice at least three times during prime time so I am not buying any argument about it being too racy for children to see.

I also can't see how people washing a cucumber is "porn" except in the mind of the viewer does all of the work of interpretation and filling in the implications. Either the kids and so on who see the ad are too innocent--doubtful these days---to make the connections or they already know all that shit and it isn't going to damage their tender psyches.

The Maquis jet ad was distasteful to me because it played into the rich old white man idea of what's provocative. At least Magna's commercial was a bit more ecumenical as it were. And certainly the whole Herbal Essence campaign was madly successful with its "totally organic experience."

I resent like hell any setup where people are given vague instructions, told to produce a result they don't have any special qualifications to produce, and then berated because it doesn't meet any hitherto unarticulated standard.

I hope the bitchy actress Magna hired was real proud of herself after this episode. Yeah, sweetheart, your time is real valuable, so you played the prima donna act to a T and basically killed any chance anyone would ever want to work with you in New York again, and why? Because Magna made you late for your . . . cucumber-masturbation session. I hope she was standing there in her little chef's hat thinking, "I can't believe I lost my shit over this job . . . Mom was right, I should go back and try to get my CPA license."

Bren's massaging afterward was top-notch, but if I'd been one of the Magna people, I don't think I would've been able to resist having a little fun with her. "OK, now put the cucumber in your mouth. No, don't bite it, just put it in your mouth . . . thaaaat's good. Now move it back and forth a little. Now lick the end of it . . . wait, where are you going?"

Well, let's see. In the Nescafe' task we have Stephanie under the table trying to get the Event planner on the phone. Then we have Audrey on the phone somewhere in the middle of New York speaking to the Sign people about flyers not being delivered until they get paid. Oh and in this episode we have the Prima Dona Actress threatening Erin with a walkout while Magna is on the way to the soundstage. So yes, I think we've seen them using the phones to make actual calls.

But the point remains, I don't think they are *allowed* to make personal phone calls during a task. (At least common sense would dictate that) I'm sure there are so many Apprentice staff following them to get good footage that they don't have that kind of freedom.

Respectfully, all they had to do was go to a bookstore and look through the women's magazines to find Dove ads. Somebody in that supposedly brilliant bunch should've had a clue as to what Dove is all about. These people are supposed to be "the best of the best," but yet they need specific guidelines and hand holding? They're supposed to be bright enough to think on their own. I guess it was too much to ask the guys on Magna to use their brain instead of thinking with their cucumber.

There's probably not enough suck in the world to appropriately describe either of the commercials. And forget about evening out teams... Trumpy should have rid himself (and me) of Erin, in addition to Kristen (why is Trumpy being so nice to me this season?). Erin, because marketer or not, she should have had the sense to realize that Bren's idea was just stupid. Not offensive. And certainly not remotely tied into body wash. I understand that these people probably couldn't creatively crawl their way out of a paper bag, but surely someone could have come up with something half-assed. As PM, Erin should have kept the brainstorming going. She should have shot Bren's idea down.

While I think about it, Bren should go, too. For proposing an idea rooted in stereotype. What is it about having not a single clue about something that makes people resort to cliché, in this case, gays and our obsession with sex? Why not cheesy tango music? Were there no leather chaps available on short notice? Where was the fun-loving drag queen? How about some dykes on bikes?

This ad, and even Trumpy and the rest, had very little to do with homophobia. It just reeked of homo-ignorance. This wasn't thinking outside the box. This was squarely inside the box, because when all else fails, throw in some innocuous soft core porn, and turn kids off cucumbers for the rest of their lives in the process.

I think Bren hurt his credibility with pretty much everyone by going gay and then quickly reminding us that it isn't his morality. So, in general, Bren is against gays, except when they can help him make a shitpot of money. Hmm... Bren and I can talk about morality when he's accepted a million bucks from Robert Redford to spend a weekend with his wife. Funny, though, how throughout the episode I would alternate between hating Bren for being a putz and wanting to hold his hand and reassure him that you can't catch it just from thinking about it. Apparently, I am so shallow that an accent will melt away various degrees of disgust and dislike.

More annoying howver is...Nipples Deutsch, who needs to take his "box", pack himself into it,and express mail it to the has-been/wanna-be club where he can ask TAR'S Victoria about tips on getting a plastic surgeon. I also think he's an idiot for having staff who thinks that bodywash, or tv ads, can make you gay.

Shut up, Kristen's mouth. Even if you were fired. Please don't come back to help out on later tasks. Unless they involve anything your boyfriend does, because you'll be a natural at that.


On the whole... not pretty (hmmm...a lot like Erin). It's starting to get painful to watch, the tasks are starting to resemble old ones, and the bit players have more memorable screen-time than most of the Apprenti.

Damn. Well...just... damn. I considered this one of the lesser engaging episodes for all the hilarity of the commercials and needy bitchy actress. But I think I outdid myself there in the dumb factor. Maybe I saw a Dial ad while I was typing up my thoughts. Yeah. That's it! I was watching a Dial ad while I was typing. Oy. To think I actually have to start paying closer attention! And I actually did have a moments pause reading the previous posts to mine (never once noticing the word Dove btw!) and wondering why the big deal with a guy using the stuff. Not to mention being offended by the heavy-handed gender specification of the "real" final ad. I think I better go clear my thoughts by taking a shower with Tide...I mean Tone!

Tegan, I concede your points about Kristen. What I meant by "Danny and Verna laughing" was how Erin reacted when (IMO) Danny wanted a "we are family" group hug for Verna.
IOW, saying her team was "like family" served Erin's purpose this week. I wonder if it will last!

I agree that it's the porn aspect, not the gay aspect that won't work. I mean, my husband and I recently switched cell service and chose Verizon in part because we were impressed that they include a gay male couple in their "couples talk free" ad. We're all about the undermining of stereotypes. But cucumber hand jobs? Pass.

Hawkwild:



I have serious objections to the photos as well (Tammy called one the "testicle photo", for Pete's Sake -- does anyone else really miss Tammy? I think she'd be a hoot in this season), but to say that Marquis' campaign was better than Magna's because of the photos is bringing up the fact that Protege had the help of professional photographers. Magna only had a sound stage. That's it. A sound stage and a vague memory that if they went for a "tasteful" ad, than they would lose, like Versacorp did. We're taking one part of the campaign out of context if we ignore the shameful captions and the whorish presentation. If we do that, than why can't we say that Magna's commercial was not that horrible aside from the scene with the cucumber?

Buzzerz, again, I can only say, bravo.

WinkyDink, like I said at the time, I thought that Erin's behavior re: Verna was childish, specifically smirking to the face and then bitching behind the back. But her public/group behavior to Verna was not that objectionable, from what I remember, and the objections she raised at the "support meeting" were nothing that many TWOP residents hadn't already voiced. There's a big difference between supporting someone because they are working for you in your week as PM, and supporting someone who has already walked off the show once and who basically just told you that she's going to sleep in bed all day and maybe she will check in sometimes during the task. There's a lot we didn't see of course, but I thought that Erin's handling of Magna and of the unstable Michael was perfectly fine.

Re: the comments on Bren, I still didn't hear him taking any serious responsibility for his part in the campaign. To say that it was his idea but went against his "moral values" (most despicable catchphrase since Rico Suave) was to imply that he was somehow carried away on a sea of pervsity, and to not-so-subtly shift blame onto the PM. Fortunately, the PM actually had the guts to defend her idea, because if she had been as shiftless and hypocritical as Bren, than I think Donald would have fired her.

And I also noticed the clumsy voiceovers about the cucumber. I shudder to think about the kind of gay-bashing that must have went on in that BR to the point where NBC severely toned down the content. The reaction of just about every straight man who got airtime was the equivalent of downing 6 beers, waking up nude and sticky beside your hunky best friend, cursing yourself blue, and then going out and throwing eggs at a gay pride parade. It seemed like the dreaded "gay agenda" or whatever terms the likes of Bren and Chris would use had a very ugly effect on Douchebag, Trump, Bren and Chris, and likely the pseudo closet cases Michael/Alex as well. The fact that on a show that is supposed to be about the power of business and money, we did not see anyone but Erin defend the idea that homosexuals can make effective advertising makes me have an even lower opinion of Trump and Douche's narrow-mindedness and Burnett's country club caste system, and I didn't think that was possible. They each have such a tiny little idea of what gay people and what people of color are worth in terms of entertainment, and they just won't even try to expand the horizons.

Thanks Tegan! I was beginning to wonder if I had imagined that. God bless you and the TARDIS you flew in on!

Wow, another Doctor Who fan! I won't geek out, since it's OT, but maybe we can go wait for Jamie to put on another kilt and ask if he can fly to New York and liven up Apprentice 4.

Anyway, the show has always had the worst voiceover work I've ever seen on TV, but this was bad even by their standards. The only one that rivalled the badness was the episode when Troy got fired.

...small voice...
Yeah, I did once. Not actually a costume. The people involved in the pitch wore the same color (pink--please don't ask) to the meeting. The pink was either a sweater or a shirt, with black skirts/slacks and jackets. It was relevant to the account we were pitching and we were awarded the business.

Like I said, not exactly a costume. And relevant to the client--not like chef's hats. Unless Dove could be used to wash dishes as well as bodies. And cucumbers.

Tegan Jovanka, I sent out the Marquis Jet photos as holiday cards this year. I'm very sad that you think them tasteless. I had, however, been wondering why my Aunt Lou Ann hasn't spoken to me since then....

Which is to sheepishly say: Eek, I'd forgotten about the pic of the jet engine that looked like a giant metal ballsack. I will concede that my memory may have cleaned up those images a bit...which is rather uncharacteristic for me, I must say. So: Protege: Bad. Magna: Bad.

And ITA with you and the other posters who had a big "WTF?" moment during the Boardroom discussion of Hoe-Moe-Se-SCHWAAA-Lit-Ee (trying to capture Chris's accent here and failing mierably). I said that upthread...the discussion was incoherent and totally patched together.

While I understand (although do not necessarily share) the desire on the part of some to force people to "open up" and accept things that they normally would not, like homosexuality, I also think that it's going to be a rare company that is going to attempt it. There is too much potential for them to lose customers and that's the bottom line. Businesses have to think about their customers and profits and don't wish to be on the receiving end of a Christian Coalition backlash, for obvious reasons. Most companies are not eager to promote social agendas just for their own sake. This does not, however, mean that the people involved in the companies or the advertising are not in favor of more openness themselves. They are just giving in to the realities of advertising in America today. Their job, after all, is to sell product, not to change they way people think about social issues. Recognizing that a commercial involving homosexuality will be a big problem for many people and will possibly get the company in trouble is not the same thing as being a homophobe yourself.

Particularly Dove body wash. One of the things that has bugged me about the marketing tasks so far this season is that the candidates are being asked to do something which is actually quite difficult: making a dull, established product line like Taster's Choice instant coffee or Dove body wash seem fresh and appealing. What's next, Jiffy Pop popcorn? Wonder Bread? Ironically, Donnie D got what he asked for, only he made the mistake of thinking he was talking to marketing professionals and not marketing newbies. I watched the first twenty minutes of the episode on CNBC last night, up to the point where the teams were forming their concepts. Having seen the results, it was almost sad watching each team come up with an idea which (they thought) was absolutely HILARIOUS! Well, yes, the resulting commercials are hilarious, though not in the intended sense.

Considering that the same thing happened with Net Worth, more or less, I don't think brain power was the issue. Lack of marketing/advertising savvy was the bigger problem for both teams.

RhondaGC, that's what I've been trying to get at. It's a recognition that the point of advertising is to sell the product, period.

In fact, in reading the story I linked to above on http://www.commercialcloset.com , I note that IKEA stores received bomb threats after running their ad with a gay couple shopping for a dining room table. I can understand why a company would want to avoid such controversey. And why others like Benneton and Kenneth Cole, both of whom engage in intentionally provocative advertising, would court it. It all depends on who you're trying to reach.

Actually Hawkwild and RhondaGC I totally agree with your points. There are brands who court controversy and others for whom it is entirely inappropriate.

However, what bugs me is that Trump, Nipples, Bren, Chris and Michael were all behaving as if showing a gay themed ad was deeply offensive and inconceivable. These are supposed to be sophisticated people, men of the world. They should at least be aware that it's not a good idea to behave as if homosexuality is some horrifying, unspeakable evil.

It's a sad day when the person talking the most sense in the boardroom is Erin.

True enough, but that actress really overplayed her hand.

With the exception of Chris I didn't really see any of them indicating that they *themselves* were deeply offended by the idea. Bren did admit it was against his beliefs or whatever, but didn't do so in an abrasive or divisive kind of way. He just stated it rather matter-of-factly. If he had truly been offended by the idea I doubt he would have come up with it in the first place.

As for Donny and Trump, I really think their disgust was for the fact that the contestants didn't understand that you cannot offend an audience that you are trying to sell to. In fact, Trump said something to that effect in the BR: "I can't believe you thought this wouldn't offend anyone." That may have been the part that was dubbed over, so I don't know what he said at the time. But I don't think he was indicating that he was offended, he just recognized that a mainstream product with a "family appeal" like Dove is not going to go for this kind of ad. I didn't feel the disgust was with the homosexuality itself, although I don't know what his personal feelings on the subject are.

And with that, I will shut my big yap on the subject.

Ah Grace2005. I'm saddened that you are grossed out by the idea of me showering with my hot patootie. It's a cute sight, really...

I disagree that the furore in the Boardroom was generated because they felt that the idea was wrong for the target audience. That seems too rational a response to explain Trump calling the ad 'offensive', Chris having a bigot meltdown and Erin using the 'Will & Grace' defense. There was clearly a hot debate about whether it was okay to run an ad with gay content, not a calm discussion about whether the ad would sell the product.



Hurrah! And rightly so...However the point that everyone is trying to make is that the success of those shows is proof that a large proportion of the public are open-minded and accepting about the gay community, and that producing an ad with a gay punchline is not an unthinkable, perverted offense.

No, in all my years working in advertising, no. First of all, typically, some of the people involved in the pitch have met before, so it's not like you're all strangers. It's not like a Hollywood audition. The account exec from the agency usually had meetings with the client and creatives are often involved there as well. Costuming is never involved in those meetings. When it comes to the actual pitch, a lot of the same players are involved, though the client may have some of their big whigs that weren't invovled in the earlier meetings. So that's just one more reason why if people suddenly showed up dressed in costumes it would just be ridiculous.

I only worked at one agency, so perhaps other agencies vary, but people I worked with had experience at other agencies and no one ever, even for a second, suggested costumes or even color coordinating our business attire. The closest we came to wardrobe discussions was to discuss if we should dress in formal business attire or more business casual attire for a particular pitch with a certain client. Nine times out of ten it was formal business attire for a pitch, even though the normal day-to-day office attire in my agency (a day without client meetings) was usually jeans and t-shirts for most people.

Having sat through interviewing and hiring trainings a billion times, I can say that it doesn't matter whether a question is aimed at a "protected class" issue. What you are allowed to ask in a job interview is very, very narrow and must be tailored to the requirements of the job. You cannot ask, for example, whether a candidate has kids, even though parents aren't a "protected class," and one would think that would be a good conversational icebreaker. You cannot ask a blind person (disability is a protected class characteristic) how he expects to do the job, unless sight is a requirement. (I once interviewed a blind lawyer, but had to wait for him to bring up his disability, even though the seeing eye dog was sitting right next to him.) And technically, you are supposed to ask the same questions of every candidate, which is very hard to do. (I work for a federal government agency that defends federal lawsuits; I've seen my share of discrimination/hostile work environment cases based on the perception or reality that someone is gay.)

Even if it weren't illegal and inappropriate, it's plain stupid -- it's not hard to draft a complaint alleging that you weren't hired because you were gay, or because the employer thought you might be. Trump has deep, deep pockets: he should guard them better.

JTMacc99 told me on the Martha Stewart thread that this season is better than TA2, so I watched Thursday's episode. I was entertained by some of the things already mentioned on this thread, like the lack of reward, no exemption next week, and the boardroom outburst of Combustible Chris.

However, I still have some problems with the show. Why do the contestants have to do a commercial for Donny Deutsche every season? Is he the only advertising executive in NYC that Trump knows? And why would they keep repeating the same kind of tasks instead of branching out and presenting new kinds of challenges to the contestants?

I also agree with those who commented that even though both commercials were awful, it was unrealistic to expect people without an advertising background to come up with a concept and shoot the commercial in what looked like one or two days.

I am also sick of seeing Trump in his business tasks. Not only do they seem staged (and Trump is a terrible actor), but that time could be better served by showing more of the tasks, and giving some of the candidates more air time. Apparently Craig and Tara haven't acted the fool yet, so they are practically invisible to TPTB so far. Maybe they are boring, maybe not, but let the viewer decide. I'd rather see what's going on with them and the other candidates than to see Trump berating his employees, or giving out lame business lessons. From Thursday's episode, the editing of the show seems as dicey as ever.

Kristen is one scary woman. Someone mentioned that she reminded them of Maria's ego-tripping bitch-fest from Season 2's Levis jeans task, and I wholeheartedly agree. The only thing that was missing was Maria's scary blinking, but Kristen's Vulcan Eyebrows of Doom and her relentless bitchface were almost as frightening. And her bitter, delusional rant in the cab ride showed just how clueless she was. Anyone who has a whole team at their disposal and still insists that she'd be better off doing everything herself, should be working alone.

For her to continue to emphatically state in the cab how wonderful she was, and how great she would be at running one of Trump's company was just creepy. They need to have a psychiatrist on hand at the Sequesterville hotel, because some of these candidates need therapy. Of course, TPTB probably know that already, and that's probably the reason some of them were picked for the show.

I can see why you don't find it humorous, and I would not be presumptuous enough to think that you should find this idea funny. Your sense of humor is yours and yours alone. And Lord knows the finished commerical was completely devoid of humor. But here is why I think the concept, at least, was humorous.

Basically what was at work here was the combining of two opposite situations, getting dirty and getting clean, in an incongruous manner.

We have a marathoner in the midst of a race. Obviously he is becoming sweaty and rather unclean. He will have to wash up later. But rather than wait, he decides to wash up during the race. Now of course this is ludicrous since there is no way to truly get clean during a marathon.

It is a general idea and nitwit needed to expand the idea with some over the top scenes to make it humorous.

John's first idea was to use the classic marathoning image where runners are given bottles or cups of water for hydration. Oftentimes they just splash the water on themselves. His idea was to use that image and combine it with the use of the body wash. The water they are given of course can now be used by the runner to lather up and wash off the filth.

They never gave other ideas that they would incorporate, but there are plenty.
First of all , they needed to give us a reason why the runner needed to wash up during the race. How about he has a big date but there will be no time after the race to wash up properly. His date starts too close after the end of the race. So he gets the idea to wash up during the race. Maybe he sees someone with a Dove bottle in their shopping bag along the route and he snatches the bottle as he runs, much like he will snatch the water.

Of course he will have to do this repeatedly during the race: lather, rinse repeat. I think they could have even incorporated another classic NY street scene. The open fire hydrant. At some point he is very lathered and then as luck would have it there is an open hydrant and he yells at some kid on the street to hit him with a splash from the hydrant. BIG SPLASH and he comes through rinsed and surprisingly refreshed and clean.

This happens, lets say 50 yards from the finish, and he runs to the finish line and into the arms of his girl who marvels how clean, and fresh smelling he is.
End of commercial

I am not much for explaining jokes, so I gather a lot of people probably find it less funny than ever. I still think the idea had some humorous possibilities, and in the hands of someone with an ounce of creativity, talent and humor it could have worked in the execution. Unfortunately they had Kristen.

This isn't laugh out loud slapstick humor or even intelligent humor. It is more comedy of the absurd. Of course maybe, I don't know anything about humor. Which is probably likely.

ON another topic, and not to be too crude, but was it just me or was the sight of the creamy white body wash splayed across the marathoners face in Nitwits commercial, more of a porno visual than anything in LiquidHotMagma's commercial?

Yeah, I know, I just creeped myself out to!

blocked writer, agree with you on every point. "Combustible Chris" is, for me, one of the high points of the season. I look forward to seeing his blowup of the week.

Trump seems to have a set group of business colleagues in NYC that he trots out each season. Deutsche is one of them. Also included in the Trump posse are Regis Philbin, George Steinbrenner, and a few others that I can't think of right now. Not coincidentially, some of these, including Deutsche, have their own TV shows on NBC or NBC cable channels.

The idea that these folks could "run one of Trump's company's" is becoming increasingly absurd as is the concept that the tasks they do each week are any kind of test of their business skill. Too many of them are just staged stunts to see how they can pimp the advertiser's product of the week: Dove Body Wash, Nescafé, Burger King, (going back to TAR2: Mattel, QVC, Crest Vanilla, and of course as many of Trump's own brands as possible.). And the contenstants don't seem to have any particular background in marketing, so they stumble and fumble their way through. What little business background they have (their official bios are inflated, so you have to read between the lines), are mostly in little entrepreneurial niches or, increasingly real estate things -- managing rental property and the like.

The joke is clearly on us. This isn't a 16 week job interview for a position running one of Trump's companies and it's not even including the best and brightest candidates. It's merely an entertainment program to massively promote Donald Trump and the sponsors of the program. With that goal in mind, I think it's succeeded extremely well. And even when the contestants failed to promote the product well, like this week, they still made for some entertaining TV.

Wow. Did Verizon have similar problems?

But many companies have marketed for gay customers, and changed their policies to become more openly accepting of gays. Even Coors, and Wal-Mart. Of course that isn't the same as a commercial, but my point is that there is always going to be some kind of criticism when a company becomes more progressive in their outreach or policies. The people who are so viscerally opposed to gays are very loud and very vicious, but they are not as high in number as they like to think. When NBC started running Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, the advertisers and the network were boycotted by "family" groups. One of them told the press, "if they want to have a reality show with gay men, then have one where they all die of AIDS." But the show was still a cultural phenomenon, brought TONS of new customers to the advertisers, and made NBC huge amounts of money on very little expenses. So from the perspective of the members of Magna, they may have felt that controversy sells and since there was no graphic homosexual content, the ad would fly. Douchebag certainly didn't give them any suggestion that they could absolutely never include gay content in their ad. As far as I'm concerned, if "conservative" companies want to stay conservative, than they should not go on reality TV. The whole competitive atmosphere and whackjob casting for most reality shows guarantees that anything produced is going to be far out there. And if Douchebag doesn't want any of "those" kinds of people in his ads, than he should be more specific it. I'd also like to have a conversation with that Douchehag who is so paranoid about her husband that she thinks a TV ad is going to make him turn gay. Is she related to Star Jones??

I think that Bren's reaction, pretending to be tolerant and then implying gays are immoral when he thought he was in trouble, was far more detrimental to gay people than anything from Michael or Chris. At least they were honest.

And hawk, can you send me some of those Christmas cards? I have quite a few relatives I never want to hear from again. Most of them act just like Kristen and Brian...

Is Todd stuck in Loser Lodge with Danny/Brian/Kristen? Can you imagine what kind of hell that must be for him? Perhaps he can come back to the show as an underwear model and stand in the background, mute.

whycantispeak, that Net Worth ad definitely looked like a porn facial to me. Very bizarre. Very John Waters. And more pornographic than anything from Magna.

Chit Chat:



Delurking to agree with you here. As soon as I saw the real ad at the end of the show, I immediately recognized the Real Beauty theme from a half dozen magazines. I think I may have even read an article about it somewhere (Bitch, maybe?) And that was months ago, so I assume this isn't a new campaign. (I'm sure one of y'all will correct me if I'm wrong. 'Cause I could easily be.)

Anyway, if they're the cream of the crop, they could - and should - have done a little background research to see what the company's current ad theme was, at least. There's plenty of room to do something original and "edgy" within the parameters of the company line, I think. It would have prevented them from looking like idiots quite so much.

Heh...of course, given the contestants, maybe not.

A number of points (in fact, I'll even number them)

1. While I thought Magna's ad was poor, I do agree that they were really not told to cater the ad to DOVE, but rather, (and I think Donnie said this almost verbatim), make a 30-second movie and capture people's attention. So they followed that instruction. They did a poor job, and should be criticized for that, but they followed the instructions, and for them to be criticized for THAT, I thought, was unfair.

2. This season is funnier for me, but yeah, these candidates are a joke. Freakin' Ivana would be a star here.

3. I agree with those who remarked at the phoniness of the actress diatribe. In addition, though, I thought it was humorous how phony her interaction with Bren was. As though he "convinced" here. It was just so lame. He was talking to her, knowing she was bullshitting. And she was responding, knowing she was bullshitting.

4. Speaking of bullshitting, the whole "tie" thing. Soooo staged. I do not have a doubt at all in my mind that Trump specifically told Donnie, "If this could at all possibly be a tie, make it a tie." There are not many tasks that are totally subjective...this is one of them. In addition, given their resources, this is also one that is likely to turn out poorly on both ends. So Trump could have another "first." What a weirdo.

5. Kristen was very lame. In addition, it was absurd to see her knock the others for not stepping up when Audrey specifically DID step up and Kristen shot her down (because of her boyfriend connection...vicarious talent is impressive).

6. I like Audrey, I am on her side. With that being said, she has GOT to stop going over the top with her points. She acts bitchy...and even when I agree with her, she is bitchy. I like her better when she is nicer. Either way, I DO agree with her most of the time.

7. Craig. This pisses the hell out of me. The editing on Craig is ATROCIOUS. They really are trying to make it look like he says nothing. Which is absurd. John says that Craig and he developed the idea. They only show John's perspective. Later, they show them working on the music, we only see John doing stuff. Craig is a MUSIC PRODUCER!!! Yet he did nothing. Suuuure. The WORST editing, though, was in the car, when John asks Craig a question, and they cut away before we get Criag's response! It's absurd! They are artificially creating a "character"!

8. Once again, we had a task where it would be VERY difficult to apportion blame against anyone who DIDN'T step up. Which is absurd, as people shouldn't be able to get by by doing nothing. Kendra, Tara, Chris and Alex did NOTHING (of substance). But they were TOTALLY safe because only people who step up are in danger of getting fired, it seems. I don't like that.

9. Also, once again, we see the "fear of ideas" at Magna. The first halfway workable idea they get, they POUNCE on it, knowing that, if it fails, at least it wasn't THEIR idea. Cowardice. Yay!

Hmmm...can I possibly not have a tenth point? Oh well...hehe.

Nothing says star like dropping your pants to sell a CANDY BAR. Or bombing out so badly in your second week that the only reason your bitch ass isn't fired is because some idiot decides to throw away his exemption.

Most of these people would eat Ivana for lunch.



Over the top to her teammates or in the confessionals? It seems like she is being coached in the confessionals, and she knows that going over the top is a good way to get airtime. I don't believe for a second that she would squeal over Donnie Douchebag unless she had been given specific cues, either that or had been brutally tortured. We haven't seen her go off in front of any other team members. She was remarkably cool when she dissected Kristen in the BR.



You said that editing was deliberately making Craig seem invisible -- how do you know the same didn't happen here? In the Yahoo clips from this week as well as last week, Tara had a much larger role than what was shown oncamera. The team chose Tara to give the pitch to Donnie. If she had been cowering in the background she would have never given a speech. We just aren't seeing her because she is not "crazy". If a black woman doesn't wig out, than Burnett wants nothing to do with her.

Perhaps a more realistic task would be to create a task? The ability to find new and creative ways to pimp out the various sponsors would be one of the few skills the actual Apprentice would need...

I will certainly allow that Audrey is being coached in the confessionals, but she's going along with it, which is not cool. But her points are still valid, so I still like her. I just wish she wouldn't buy into the coaching.

As for the editing stuff, I say it for the reasons I mentioned. John says Craig came up with the idea with him, but we don't see that. They go to work on the music (and Craig is a music producer), but they show Craig doing nothing. They show John ask Craig something, but cut out the answer. The editing for Craig is just so over the top.

The others may also be edited, but there was no visible signs of such editing (except for, as you mentioned, in any extended footage...which brings up an interesting point, do we really have to watch online clips to fully understand a show? That sounds kinda lame, doesn't it?).

The visible signs of editing did exist for Craig.

OK, I just wasn't sure if you meant Audrey was OTT in her dealings w/others or in the confessionals. I agree she overdoes it in the confessionals.

Apprentice as well as Survivor are both far too guilty of rendering players invisible if they do not make asses of themselves in any particular episode. Both shows seem to feature story arcs which are available only in bonus website footage that only 1/10 of the audience will ever see. That is what frustrates me so much with these shows. Why do they cast so many excess players (18, 20) only to make most of them mute? The show would be so much better if they cut the New York location shots (which are as tired and recycled as the endlessly looped "native" shots on Survivor) and the inane segments where Trump does business and a few obviously whipped employees stammer about what a brilliant year the company is having. Doesn't anyone realize that most people do not watch this show because of Trump, and that as he has hogged more and more airtime, the ratings have declined?

midnightoil, I think you hit on a very important point. The joke IS on us. If they were ever serious about truly finding "the best and brightest" to run one of Trump's companies, that goal has clearly fallen by the wayside. They are obviously now just trying to make outrageous, entertaining TV. I don't have a problem with that per se. I'm just pissed because this show could have been so much more.

Not that Season 1 was without its flaws, but there was a lot of promise there. Instead of expanding on that promise and improving the show, they just tried too hard to be controversial, have bigger and better boardrooms, blah, blah blah, in Season 2. I don't think they had enough faith in the original concept, and started to rely on stunt casting and editing tricks.

They are so full of crap to try to continue the fiction that this show has any serious intent. Like you said, they want to promote Trump and the sponsors of the show. And Dove made out, because both commercials were so jaw-droppingly bad in dfferent ways, a lot more people are probably talking about Dove than if (against all odds) one or both teams had made good commercials.

I guess the way to enjoy this show is to look for all the trainwreck aspects. I don't know if that is enough for me to continue to watch, but I am interested in seeing Combustible Chris go completely off in the boardroom in a spectacular way. It seems almost inevitable.

I was looking something up in the dictionary yesterday at work, and I came across the word trump. Two of the definitions were quite interesting.

1. to devise or concoct deceitfully or fraudulently

2. of a superior quality; outrivaling all others

I'm sure Donald Trump prefers the second definition, but the first seems more apt for his business dealings and his show. I was also interested to read a couple of the definitions of the word trumpery:

1. trifling, showy but worthless; trashy; paltry

2. anything calculated to deceive by false show: anything externally splendid
but intrinsically of little value; worthless finery

The first is an especially appropriate descpition of Trump's apartment, I think.

It's funny, Tegan Jovanka, because I agree with you....but when I look at your comments and mine, it seems as though what we want is just to have the show be FAIR.

Which is just such a silly thing to want (in that it shouldn't be something we have to ASK for, ya know?)...

I Loved this episode! I am still not over the "botchy" actress pitching her hissy fit. No one here to receive me? What was that all about?!!?

Quick question - being rather new to this board (but not to the show) I have pretty much figured out the acronyms, and maybe I am a sim, but could someone please tell me what TPTB is? Sorry if it is a stupud question.!

qwerty1, TPTB stands for "The Powers That Be."

Thanks blockedwriter! I never would have figured that out!

You're welcome, qwerty1. Some of the abbreviations are easier to figure out than others - I've been perplexed sometimes.

If you go to the FAQ section in the bar at the top of the screen, I think they have explanations for some of the most frequently used abbreviations.


Edited because spelling counts.

No joke! In retrospect, at least A1 consisted of more business concepts as opposed to Trump's pimping for his buddies. Yawns all around.

And the tie did seem too staged to me, too. This is actually the first time I've watched A3 and did like it WAY more than A2 already. However, the commercials were cheap, cheap, cheap and they couldn't have pleased a public access station with the resources they were given.
I think TPTB got off on the Baldford firing twist and ever since they seem to be scraping for something "controversial" each week. Definitely a sign of shark-jumpage. Trump got tired FAST
I'm pretty much ready for Martha's version ... or let Carolyn head up an episode or two!

Brian, we do want the show to be fair, but I also think these changes would make the show more entertaining. People don't watch to see gimmicks, or phony "shock value" (this is the same type of nonsense that doomed "ER") . They want to see strong characterizations. It was Troy, Bill, Nick, Amy, Heidi, and yes even the odious Assorama who caused such interest in the first season. But someone decided that people watched the show because of "you're fired" and Trump hamming it up, and all the rest. The personalities have become so shrill, so repetitive, and so poorly edited. Even this season, where the personalities are easier to tolerate, they are so badly served by the hacktacular editing team. The changes would be so minor and would be so much help to the quality of the program, and yet no one bothers to make them.

I kind of have to disagree on that. I've worked with a number of people who, while not huge stars, were definitely working actors that you'd have seen in stuff, and they were wonderfully chill and easy to please. Ironically, some of the best people I've worked with have also been some of the best-known, while others have been, like our Apprentice darling, nobodys who think they have the right to act like divas. I think it's really just a personality thing (and possibly that our "chef" was encouraged to act the way she did.) Whatever the case, it's always puzzling and pretty amusing when people try to act so above their station.

whycantispeak - That was great! I understood the joke as the guys presented it on the show, but your ideas expand on that.

I think I would have changed it to a female runner, though, since the target audience is female. How about female runner is seen off at the starting line by her hunky guy. He wishes her luck, and tells her he'll meet her at the finish line - he has something to ask her. The starter's pistol goes off, she starts running. She looks over at the sidelines, and see hunky boyfriend looking at a ring box. She's moritified! Who wants to be hot and sweaty when they get a proposal, right? So the race, for her, turns into this obviously over-the-top satirical strategizing to looks her best at the end of the race. I love the idea of the runner grabbing some Dove bodywash from a shopper's bag, and later going through the spray of a fire hydrant to rinse off. Maybe she could grab a towel out of a laundry basket of someone coming out of a laundrymat. Grabs a dress off of a rack of garments being wheeled across a NYC street. She crosses the finish line looking beautiful and put together. Tag line - With Dove Green Tea and Cucumber Bodywash, you'll be ready for anything.

I would understand the Diva Actress' annoyance if she wasn't being filmed the entire time she was waiting. In a normal situation, having to wait with no communication would make one wonder if in fact there's going to be a shoot at all and that would be frustrating. But this was all filmed, and there had to be some other goings-on that indicated that it wasn't a matter of miscommunication or a shoot being cancelled and no one notifying her. It's not like she was left to wait by herself for hours late at night in some alley without another soul in sight.

I also thought it was interesting that the other actors didn't complain.

And I agree emphatically with whoever posted about her not looking that promising for this particular role. I also assumed she was going to look much better and sexier for the actual commercial, but instead she was blah. Erin absolutely should have been more apologetic than she was, but once apologies were given, I would have told Diva Actress that we would be using someone else. And then I would have used one of the Magna girls. Or done the Jay "Project Runway" thing. I also wonder why they chose her to begin with. Out of all the headshots they looked at, SHE was the one they thought was sexy and beautiful??? I thought she was so not. And with a personality to match. I hope she's enjoying her brief fling with fame, because I have a feeling she's already had her 15 minutes.

Wait- that’s not what goes on here anyway?

Did Erin honestly think that their commercial would be able to pass the FCC's post Janet Jackson guidelines?!? I’m betting the rooty tooty freedom society has complained because it was technically on prime time.

How does magna get to play the “We-got- along-and-got-our-"commercial"-done- on-time card when according to the Actress they were two hours late to the shoot?
I have a very sneaky suspicion that Magna’s boardroom strategy was to present a “we failed together” message and wait for New Worth to implode. The Nit Wits delivered faster than FedEx.

In defense of Actress, and god knows she needs one, there is no way I would have waited around 90 min to shoot soft porn. I’m definitely not an actress but I can see where she’s coming from. However, I would not have called Erin and been all "There’s a 90% chance I’m not staying."
I think it's worth mentioning that he didn’t find someone off the street to model. He used Austin.

No shit. What is the point of this task, anyway? Because I very, very much doubt that Trump has in-house advertising. He contracts it out. The show is an advertisement pretending to be a reality show.

But still, a 22-year old managed a semi-professional television ad last year, with very, very little assistance from his team. None of these people seemed to have a clue, though I do admit body wash is not exactly an easy product to make 'edgy.' The only edgy thing about it is the fact that it is constituted exactly the same way as shampoo, but costs twice as much. Never been able to figure that one out.

The funny thing about the 'actress' was that she looked nothing like her glossy.

Also, they had a "Last week, on The Apprentice" at the beginning of the second episode that lasted close to 5 minutes, yet they couldn't spare a few seconds for a confessional from Kendra or Craig. It's ridiculous.

Agreed....but I wonder if perhaps they feel as though they cannot FIND another Bill, Troy, Kwame, Amy, Nick, etc.

As in, perhaps it has been too corrupted by meta references now, as people know how the Apprentice works, and they're now gearing themselves to fit that "role" (notice how the contestants were so cognizant of "it is a FIRST!" when Brian was fired right away).

So since they feel as though they can't get that same group of honest candidates, they feel like they have to go the other direction.

In addition, the money that's being waved at them by corporate sponsors must be mind-boggling.

Also, regarding Tara (as I noticed you specify her earlier), perhaps they are afraid that since she is so well-educated (one of the most impressive educational experience among all the candidates this year, right?), she might break the whole conceit they are going for...hehe.

Judging from the "real" Dove commercial played after the show, I'm thinking maybe these freaks are the best and brightest after all. The "real" commercial had production value up the wazoo, but honestly it was equally as awful to watch as the ones the two groups put together.

At least cucumber porn made me laugh. The real commercial was profoundly annoying.