Curare pointed out that we don't have a thread specifically for the miniseries/pilot. So now we do. Ta da!

Thanks Strega!

I thought it was super cool that Six kills a baby. I've never seen that on TV before. She says all these nice things about the baby and then snaps the neck while the mom is distracted.

The opening sequence when the Basestar blows up the armistance station made no sense because there was a Six model and two other cylons on the station when it goes BOOM.

I also forgot that Billy and D. kiss during the pilot. And just...Aw.

Are the 12 planets all in the same system? That's the impression I got from the pilot but I find 12 earth like planets in the same system a bit of a stretch.

I also find it interesting that Tigh is a little nervous about being the XO. There's a scene when Adama tells him, "You're either the XO or you're not." This is right after the first nuke hits and they have a section on fire and Tigh needs to deal with it.

The chain of command or secession is pretty well establish in the pilot so I don't get what Zarek was talking about.

Moore covered this in his blog while discussing how much he kept from the original series; he said that 12 earth-like planets in one star system was a stretch, but it was in the original series and he felt like honoring it.
Maybe that's what makes the Lords of Kobol so godly. They could find improbable star systems.

One rule in cinema is you don't kill infants, small children or (cute) animals so it was suprising... on the other hand seemed pointlessly cruel and I don't think the Cylons are cruel, just diffrent.



I think this was to show us that the Cylons don't place a value on individual life... the whole is important not the parts.



I'm certain there not. It is imposible for a system to have that many inhabital planets

There is a formila for planets I saw one that has to do with distance from the sun and habitation ranges... ok without two much headache... I hope

the first planet from the star is X then planet 2 is 2X and planet 3 will be at 4X

In other words each planet is twice as far from the solar mass as the planet before it... there are exceptions... mainly planets on eleptical orbits but basicly that formula works, in our system the only place it fails is after Mars the next planet is way too far out... except the astroid belt, which MAY have been a planet destroyed in solar creation IS in the right spot.

Anyway given these precise locational positions and the very narrow range of habitational enviorment a human can survive in there is now way 12 planets in the same system could be inhabital... unless it was 12 good sized moons all around the same gas giant or something.

Next... I have to say, if I had to be in the mini series I wouldn't want to be a fighter piolet unless it was in a MK. II on Galactica cause of all the ways to die, sitting there helpless has to be about the worst... right after my number one least wanted death... eaten by zombies... seriously if it were happenin put a round in me!

Re: Six killing the baby:



I didn't read from that scene that it was a cruel thing - more like Six trying to figure out how the baby's head stayed attached to the body and either was too rough in her examination, or was just curious to see how much stress the baby's neck would take - she did look a bit taken aback when it broke. But after all, she knows the baby, mother and everyone else in Caprica City is going to be toast soon anyway, so it's not like she's precipitating the baby's death by much - it could even be argued that compared to being burned/blasted to death, it was something of a kindness. I still flinch at the sound, though. There's just something so offensive about killing something so helpless.

On a related note, I liked the nuking of the little girl on the garden ship. We get this intro of this cute girl with a doll and a tragic story, and then she gets left behind to be turned into chunky salsa by the Cylons. When I was watching the first time, it really made me sit up and take notice.

IMO the mini is so well-constructed that there's never a dull moment - and on the third run through I notice things I didn't before. When the ships are preparing for the first FTL jump, there are obvious protests by the ones getting left behind, but I'm sure one of the messages says something akin to "we're not leaving these people behind!". I think the pilot of that ship probably changed his mind pretty quick when the Cylons appeared, though.

I also didn't notice (prior to the latest viewing) that they said that FTL was never (or rarely) used prior to the Cylon attack, but then I'm incredibly unobservant. I guess it didn't twig with me that all the colonies were in one solar system, with that being fairly unlikely and all.

Just a reminder to all Australian viewers that the mini series premieres on Network Ten this Friday February 11th and concludes on Saturday February 12th at 8.30pm.

I didn't watch the mini when it first aired, and only caught it after they reran it on the Space channel; let me tell you, thank the Gods for it, because otherwise I would have had to have waited far too long for the series to start.

Military lingo! Bad ass EJO! Annoying Six-Baltar music! "Perimeter established/For frack's sake, stay out of Galactica's firing solution!" (let's hope that we get to see more battles involving Galactica in future).

Some people said it was plodding, bit I was enthralled with nearly every moment of screen time. Perhaps I'm not jaded enough yet. Or, more likely, perhaps this was just sci-fi the way it's supposed to be--character driven, realistic, sometimes dark and sometimes funny... just like real life.

Awesome. It was all worth it for the arrival shot at Ragnar.

Now where's my 6-disc DVD miniseries boxed set?

Funny, hee, just remembered (from memory, so is probably innacurate):

"The hard part will be getting these birds over to the starboard launch pad."
"Why can't we launch out of the port side?"
"It's a gift shop now."
"Frak me!"

It's called "Bode's Law". The asteroid belt falls into the orbit Bode predicted for a fifth planet. However, it would appear that as Jupiter formed, its massive gravity well disrupted the pattern of matter-gathering in the next orbit sunward - thus, no planet ever actually collected there. A number of planetoids, of course, but no single planet as we understand them.

The "life belt" is another consideration. Around any given star, there is only a limited radius in which the temperature of water on a planetary surface is between freezing and boiling, and thus in which our kind of life can exist. (We'll leave aside other kinds of life for the moment - it seems obvious the Colonials are human, or close enough as makes no nevermind.) I can't imagine a set of orbits for a number of Earthlike worlds that would put them all in the life belt. Therefore, I must fanwank that in fact there are at least three or four inhabited systems, and perhaps some of the Colonies are in artificial worldlets. The "point jump" they were so worried about would seem to be a jump to a precisely-defined point, with little, if any, margin for error. (After all, if everybody's in the same system, why would so many civilian ships be equipped with a completely unnecessary FTL drive?)

Thank you Irish Wolf it's been years since I read it and didn't want to fish out my Gurps Space book to find the name.

Also I agree that the FTL drives would be kinda silly if all the worlds were in one system.

Guys, the "how do you get 12 inhabitable worlds in one star system?" is a fascinating topic, but I think we need to move into the general speculation thread to avoid the wrath of our lovely recapper. I've moved my post there.

<moved post to general speculation thread>

Actually, my impression was that she (Six) saw it as an act of mercy. Her line before she killed the child was along the lines of, "Don't worry. You won't have to cry much longer."

That was my take, too.

While, yes, the Cylons are extinctifying the humans, they aren't cruel or sadistic.

Agreed. The general impression seemed to be that the Cylons were facinated by humans more than anything else, even if it was tempered with a general feeling of "Man, I envy Dad, even though I have to kill him. Pity."

That creeps me out too. Sure the baby's going to die but they ways to go. Now the mother and father have to mourn before their death instead of just enjoying life until the end.

I agree with pootlus about Six killing the baby accidentally. She specifically said something just before about being amazed by how the baby's big head could be supported. I think she was testing the neck and it actually turned out not to be as strong as she was starting to think it was. I started loving this actress from this scene, because when she was walking away, you could see a whole set of emotions on her face at once: "oops," "oh well," "hehehe," "gotta go," and "sniff--I think I've got something in my eye." That is one curious and conflicted cylon.

Count me among those who beleive that the baby killing was entirely intentional on the part of the Cylon.

Yeah, me too. Even though it can be pointed out the baby was going to die soon anyway, I think 6s main character trait is a sort of detached, amoral curiosity about humans, with some residual recognition they are the Cylons "parents." I think she just wanted to see how easy or difficult it would be to snap the little neck.

And that moment was when I sat up and took notice that this was indeed not your father's Battlestar Galactica. Thrilling, that they were so ready to go so dark so fast. The miniseries just ruled.

I really was annoyed by the over-the-toppedness of that scene. Yeah, you're evil. Great. Thanks for the bulletin. It's okay though, because we soon after have 6 announcing to Baltar that she's going to be killing basically everyone on the colonies, followed by nuclear explosions.

I'm a sucker for nuclear armageddon, what can I say.

Curare, Six's scene with Baltar right before his house goes boom explains this. The Cylons don't worry about placing a particular body in harm's way, because that Cylon's consciousness gets uploaded back to the Cylons at the moment of death and put into another copy of the body. So when Armistice Station explodes, the Six inside sends her consciousness back to the Basestar and wakes up in a new body, no worse for wear. (Whether the robotic Cylons have full consciousnesses that also needed to be uploaded is something I've speculated about, but if they did, they'd have been OK too.)

I actually misinterpreted Six in that scene of the mini, at first. I thought she was saying that the body that was talking to Baltar was the sixth body for that particular consciousness, not the sixth different type of Cylon. Given the 'There are 12 models of Cylons" line at the end of the mini, though, I realize I was wrong.

I didn't watch the mini until right before the series started, and DVRed it, thinking I'd watch it when I got the chance. I started watching Part 1 at midnight or so, thinking I'd break it up into two nights. Wound up watching the whole darn thing in one go. It's relentlessly grim, to the point that I wanted the apocalypse to happen just because things couldn't get much worse from there, could they? But it's so well done. Great music, too. I'm listening to the soundtrack now.

But wouldn't making a whole new body consume resources?? Or were they trying to get the point across that the Cylons are now so powerful that making another little body is no big deal?

I think that's exactly the case, Raina. That Six could just download herself or reload a copy into a new body or even just be disposed of.

This is what I love about Battlestar Galactica. They follow a tried and true "cybernetic things are evil" template and do it well. One could even say that BSG had a hand in the invention of the genre.

Cylons
Mechanoids (Palladium Role Playing Game)
Daleks (Doctor Who)
Replicators (Stargate SG-1)
The Machines (The Matrix)

And most of these deal with the "Destroy the creators that we may live" way of thinking. That's what makes them so creepy. Not that they hate us. But that they see us merely as an obstacle. Cat-like, they bear us no specific ill will, we're simply in the way. It's a classic and they do it well. Six's death meant no more to the Cylon Armada than a flat tire or a blown overhead gasket. Easily replaceable. A minor inconvenience, but certainly in the budget.

I think it's not accident that there are 12 models and 12 colonies. I'm just saying.

Oh, leezard: You got me. I love this sentence.

I really wanted them to have shown us the homeworld of the Cylons. I have to say that loved Six when she found Balter with the other woman. I did like the actress when I first saw this but I love her now. Her, "Get out." line was nice.

ETA: Baltar is such a jackass. In that same scene he's being all, "I know I have issue and I'm working on them." And you know he's thinkings, "How can I get her to sleep with me again."

Understandable, but I am just so relieved whenever a show tells me someone is evil without having to resort to having that person kill a sidekick for absolutely no good reason. Stupid people kill underlings who just screwed up a minor mission; evil people kill babies. I like watching a show that knows the difference.

Carney, I thing I would have got the message when the nuclear devices started detonating and 6 admitted she was responsible for it. As it was, she just needed to be going Mwahahahhha or something.

But if Model 6 wants to have a half-human baby, and also believes in God(s?), it doesn't really make sense for her to be evil and kill the baby for the sport of it. It makes more sense if she was just curious and got carried away. Does someone who just watched it or has the tape know specifically what she said about the baby's neck/head before she snaps it? The exact words/tone of that statement might help determine her later intent, and I could just be making it up in my memory that she said anything at all, since that's happened before.

ETA: A mercy killing could fit with my view, but that doesn't make sense either because having one's neck snapped and being vaporized by a neutron bomb really isn't much of a difference, is it? It's relatively instantaneous either way. And why that one baby? I'm just not buying it.

Here is what Six said and did during the killing of the baby.

Six is at the Riverwalk Market in Caprica City. She's just walking around. She happens to come across the baby iand the mother.

Six: How small they are.
Mother: I know. But they grow up so fast
Six: May I?
Mother: Sure.
Mother picks up baby and hands the baby over to Six.
Six: [She smiles at baby.]So light. So fragile. Shh. Shh. There. There. It's okay. You're not going to have to cry much longer. [Six is stroking the baby's face and moves her index finger across the baby's lips.]
Mother: We really should be going.
Six: Of course.
Six: It's amazing how the neck can support that much weight.
Father/Husband: Sentera. Honey. [Waves at her.] Let's go.
She moves away from Six and the baby.
Father: I have to show you something.
Mother: Ok, wait.
Father: Come on.
Mother: In a moment.
Six moves in closer to the baby and snaps the neck. I have to say that at the snap Six's face jumps. She looks sad while doing this. She moves away by the time the mother looks back. When she does she freaks. She screams. "Oh my God. my baby, he's not breathing. Oh my God. Help." As six walks away she looks sad.

I still don't know what to make of that scene. She's sad but I don't think she has a problem with what she did. I didn't give the actress playing Six enough credit. She is good and I'm glad she's on the show.


ETA: There's this scene when Six tells Balter she has to meet someone. They're at some plaza. They walk away from each other and then she stops and says. "It's about time. I'd wondered when you'd get here." I wish they would have shown us a face. In retrospect it was mayber another Six or a Larry model. But it would have been nice to have seen who she was talking to.

At the end of the mini Adama finds a note in his office telling him there are only 12 Cylon models. We don't know who left the note. It was just one sentence. I was all WTF?

I kind of assumed it was a Boomer and that's why it was so cloak and daggery.

And I'm very much on the "deliberate killing" side of the argument. Six and the Cylons see humans as creatures without souls - mere animals. I figure she killed the baby because in a little while the world was going to blow up and she'd never get another chance to experience killing a baby.

Personally, I thought it was a mercy killing. The "You won't have to cry for much longer" cinches it for me. Then she reached down, and quite deliberately broke its neck with a snap. Her expression wasn't an oops to me, it was that of a woman doing a surprisingly difficult task of mercy.

And honestly, I'd rather have my neck broken then see a nuclear apocalypse. Even if being in ground zero would vaporize me completely, what if it I wasn't that lucky? Radiation poisoning is a terrible way to die. Or getting nicked by shrapnel or something. Or possibly seeing one's parents die, even if I'm too young to comprehend it, I'd still know they weren't there when I starved to death. So I do think it was deliberate.

I think it was cloak and daggery because whether it was another Six (least shocking, but physically striking and we'd know something was up) or whether it was Boomer/Kevin Spacy/CKR, (none of whom are revealed as a Cylon by this point) they wouldn't want to give away the surprise too easily.

I'm not sure if this is cheating or not to bring this up, but speaking to Six's intent in killing the baby, the commentary track for the Mini clearly states that they wanted to do it to show she was evil...

That's interesting. Then I give Tricia Helfer even more credit for making it look like Six was conflicted.

In the commentary track, the producers do mention that if the actors hadn't brought so much to the scene that wasn't in the script, it probably would've gotten cut.

I think we're meant to assume Baltar left it. He couldn't tell Adama without saying how he knew, so he typed up an anonymous note.

That's cool, Kalbear. I was just taking a moment to slam writers who show a villain is truly evil by having him kill a henchman, because that really annoys. To be fair, I didn't even take Six's action to mean that she was the evilest evil that ever eviled, writers' intentions aside, but that is because I have my own pet theory that the cylons actually are the superior race. Capable of an evil action? Sure. That's kind of obvious what with the nuking and the genocide and the baby-killing. But for reasons I'll expand on in the religion thread, I think a point could be made that the writers see the cylons as an evolutionary leap forward.

And I've been wondering about who left the note, too. I originally assumed Baltar, since they showed him walking through the archway as Adama was walking towards his room, but I just can't see him taking any risk, even one as small as getting caught leaving a note if it even remotely endangered his position. My money is on Boomer, even though I do think the writers probably meant it to be Baltar.

That makes sense only Baltar knew about the 12 models. I jsut wasn't sure where he was walking when he was talking to Six in the hallway. I just hope that little nugget of info gets brought up again. A scene where he shares that with Tigh or the President would be great. Or if the show shows Adama doing something with that nugget. I just don't want it to be drop.

I finally got to watch the mini in its entirety thanks to my DVD purchase...and holy frak, is it amazing. I do not know what possessed me to miss parts of it when it aired. It's incredibly well-done, and I was enthralled the whole time. I did not know it was that sad. It really hits home.

I love that moment when the Colonial One has a missile heading straight for it, and the pilots are all, "where's our escort?!" and then Apollo's ship just zooms in and twirls all fancy in front to get the missile to follow him, and then blows it up. SO AWESOME. In fact, I spent most of time saying "That is so cool!" about the whole damn production.

I totally loved Apollo throughout the mini - Jamie did a fantastic job, I just clicked right in with him and his feelings. His scenes with EJO are intense. Baltar and Tigh gave me fits of laughter. Now I can really see how many common threads they've included from the mini, and I only enjoyed watching it more having seen six episodes of the series itself. It just made me that more interested in seeing exactly where everyone's coming from. Great stuff. I could watch it many, many times over. And probably will.

I posted a spoilerish interview in the media thread but this bit answers the question of cruelty vs mercy killing .

Bump.

I loved the mini and thought it was way to short, until they went ahead with the series.

Finally got to see the mini. I had turned my nose up at it the first time around - obviously, my loss. It was fascinating watching it after a season of subsequent episodes. Things like shouting at the President during the decommissioning ceremony "You're sitting next to a Cylon!" And I loved recognizing the shots that make up the credits each episode.

Roslyn seems so in-charge and determined in season one - the miniseries shows that obviously wasn't there at first. And I find it fascinating that of all the people on Galactica, Baltar ended up blaming the transponders on the one who was actually a Cylon. It's the first in the chain of coincidences that give credence to either Baltar's incredible luck or his being chosen by God, depending on your biometrics and your point of view.

I'm catching up on this series via reruns, and I have a question that came out of something in the miniseries. I can't find any other discussion of it elsewhere, so maybe I just missed something and it was clear to everyone else.

At the end of the miniseries, Adama brings up Earth. He says it was the legendary 13th colony that people went to from Kobol, but no one knows where it is. So am I correct to understand that the show's mythos would have me believe that a) the humans we see on this show are not our descendents and their ancestors were never on Earth, despite their very similar culture, b) our ancestors originated on Kobol but after thousands of generations we have forgotten, and c) This show could be taking place at any time, future or past, so if they ever did make it to Earth it could be today, last week, 5 million B.C., or the year 3147?

That was the impression I got from the miniseries. Am I mistaken? It seems a little odd to me to be watching humans who aren't even descended from Earth, but if that's the premise I'll go with it. I just want to be sure I've understood what the series has laid out.

That's pretty much the size of it, Cleo256. Keep in mind, too, that this premise is directly lifted from the original BSG. When the original series found Earth, it was contemporary (i.e. 1970's). But there's nothing that says this series has to find Earth in Season 4 or whatever and have it be actualy 2008 Earth.

For that matter, in this version, Earth could actually be a myth.

Okay. Thanks, coalhouse. That feels strange to me, but I guess if it's lifted from the original, that's why it hasn't been discussed as much as I imagined it would be.

Anyway, now that I understand it, I'm okay with it.

Have to get your canon straight so you can nitpick thoroughly, eh, Cleo?

I watched the mini-series on DVD (a friend is an Emmy voter and had the distributed sample). I watched it after I'd already seen 2 or 3 episodes, but I was totally blown away just the same. The characters are so well fleshed-out from the very beginning.

Bit late to be adding to this thread, but I'm confused: I just found a script for the mini on some website, and it's quite different to the version of the mini that I saw. For a start it explains why Boxey's dad looks like he's been fake aged: because in the script it goes through stages, showing him going back to Armistice Station annually, in the uniforms of a lieutenant, then a captain, then a major. Whereas the version I've seen only has his final trip.

Is this because someone at the website has somehow got hold of a script that includes stuff that was edited out, or have I got a rubbish edited down version of the mini? Each half is an hour and a half, and I'd understood it was two hours with adverts, so I'd've thought my version was right.

Any ideas?

I think your draft is legit. If I remember the DVD commentary, that stuff was shot, but it got cut, I don't remember exactly why.

Ah, ta Hugin. What threw me was that I assumed it was a transcript - and then Six turned up a brunette and my error became apparent...