Once upon a time, there was a cartoon on Fox called "Batman: The Animated Series," and it was good. Damn good. There came multiple offshoots: "The Adventures of Batman & Robin," "Superman," "The New Batman/Superman Adventures," "Batman Beyond" and "Justice League." And for the most part, they were good. Hell, the voice acting outshined the actors portraying the same roles in the movies. So you figured that this was the peak of perfection, no way do you mess with the likes of Kevin Conroy (Batman), Mark Hamil (Joker) and all the other things that kicked ass.

But...with a new Batman movie on the way, a new toon is ready to go on the WB, alongside such fare as "Static Shock," "Pokemon" and "Yu-Gi-Oh!" "The Batman" is basically a look at a point earlier in the Bat's career, when the psychotic nutjobs started coming out in droves. From what I've heard, this is a seperate continuity from the 90s series...hence the seperate thread. I got this queasy feeling that this project is gonna suck eggs like "The Zeta Project" (the only bump in the whole TAS mythos). Then again...that's what I thought of "Batman Beyond," and I ended up happy about a 21th century Batman.

The show debuts on Sept. 11. What do you guys think of the concept? The ads? The thought of Adam West as the Mayor of Gotham and Robert Englund as the Riddler?

I saw the promos for that show and it's horrible. What's wrong with the old Batman from the 90's? It's still viable. I can't wait for this show to be dragged off the air. I know, it ain't out yet...but still.

I am willing to give the new series a chance.

That said, "Batman: the Animated Series" stands near (if not at) the pinnacle of North American animation, due to its high quality if practically everything one can name: animation, sound, music, continuity, quality of writing, and quality of voice acting. It gave us an (almost) weekly serving of action, suspence, tragedy, and humour, wrapped up with a bow made of genuine emotional power. Due to the persistance of seeing animation and cartoons as being solely for the children, few North American animated series before offered us this same mix, and never to the same high standard (though they are still honoured for this). After it, this began to change, as seen by the other shows created by Paul Dini. Others have followed in these footsteps, such as Greg Weisman's "Gargoyles" and Genndy Tartakovsky's "Samurai Jack."

The point of this ramble? While I am willing to give the new series a chance, I don't hold out much hope. I can buy the odd casting choices (after all, if Luke Skywalker can rock beyond words as the Joker, then Freddy Krueger may just make a good Riddler), but the character designs... well... ugh. That thing is supposed to be the Joker?

LOL. You remember a lot more than I do. I couldn't face the hideous animation, had to turn away.

I dunno. From what I've heard/read the new series lacks the emotional background that Batman: TAS had. I don't think I'll go out of my way to watch this new series. I'll watch my Vol. 1 DVD's and await the next volume.

I remember reading about this series a while ago. Didn't they NOT have Kevin Conroy as Batman? If that's still true, I say fuck it. I'm not watching. KC is Bruce Wayne.

Adam West as the mayor of Gotham City? I'll check it out. My childhood hero earns a paycheck. Shut up. I didn't know it was supposed to be a farce; that show kick-started my love for the character.

I'll give it a shot before passing final judgement. Englund sounds perfect for The Riddler to me. But how are they going to find someone to equal Hammill's Joker? Can't be done....

Accidental double-post? Can be done

This is my feeling as well. It will be hard to see an animated Batman not voiced by KC but hey, I thought I wouldn't like Batman Beyond either, but I did.

Besides, Adam West AND Robert Englund on one show?? I can't NOT at least check it out. :-)

Lantern7, thanks for heads up on when they were showing this. I saw a promo for this a few months ago and then never saw or heard anything else about this. I'll give it a shot. I don't think I would have liked Batman Beyond as much if KC wasn't still doing the voice of Bruce so I'm a little worried about what this new Batman series will sound like. I have to say I didn't like the animation I saw in the promo. It looked too exaggerated. I also do not care for the blue cape and cowl. It’s just not as cool or threatening as the black one.

Also: Clancy Brown as Mr. Freeze. Clancy's the second-best Lex after Rossenbaum, and he's way creepy in Carnivale. Once again...I'm hoping for the best.

Word. Clancy Brown is awesome. Gina Gershon should make a good Catwoman (whether or not she's as good as Adrienne Barbeau is yet to be seen).

To me, there are only two voices I'd accept as Batman: KC, or Will Fridel (sp?), who grew on me during Batman Beyond. Still, I'll give this a chance.

Casting Adam West is bloody brilliant. Does anybody else think he'll end up being evil? If so, then I'm torn. I'll always be fond of the 60's Batman, and Adam West the bad guy seems wrong. On the other hand... Adam West the bad guy on a Batman show!

I hope that makes sense.



Fragile Halo, that Joker is burned into my brain. And not in the good way. Ugh!

The voice actor who will be playing Batman/Bruce needs to pull off the same thing KC and WF have done. Batman and Bruce need to sound different but not so different you can't believe it is the same guy. Am I alone in this? I'm very worried about how they are going to make the characters work on this new show.

Clancy Brown rocks. I love that man. I liked the Dr. Freeze from the other Batman shows. Hope they write him well.

You made a pretty good point. But, I never really noticed or thought about Terry's voice changing on Beyond when he was Batman.

Oh, please... No, not the Joker to. I can't stand to see the Joker and Harley maimed by the ugly animation. I no longer care if it gets cancelled or not. Please don't harm or kill any of the characters.

Though I'll admit that it's a plus, that they brought in AW. Minus, 'cause these are little kids. They're not gonna get the reference. I shouldn't get the reference, but I am. I guess they throw in the references to bait you adults. It's workin' pretty good.

In addition to Adam West, they also cast Frank Gorshin as Dr. Hugo Strange, which is just too cool. Gorshin will always be the greatest live action Batman villain ever.

A review of the first episode, no real spoilers other than saying who the villain is.

The new Batman looks so cool. I saw the first episode at the SDCC and it's really very nicely done. And casting Adam West? What genuis!

what's the story with that review?

"My press kit with the first episode dvd had arrived! Now, under normal circumstances, my wife would roll her eyes as I tripped over baby toys, scrambling to the dvd player….but she knew better this time. This time it was serious. This is animated batman for god’s sake!"

and an even better howler...

"While Batman: The Animated Series seemed to take its time, building with dramatic effect, The Batman shoves you head first into the action, not leaving a second to catch your breath. Parents: It may be best to have brown paper bags for your kids to breath into during commercial breaks. The pace is relentless."

As our crass friends over at Aint It Cool News might say, "Plant!"

The series already has a fan website, and WB isn't issuing cease-and-desist orders on all the copyrighted images and footage? And the site's forum has depressing stuff like "Only 37 days to go." "Can't wait!" "Three weeks left!" "Can't wait!"

This series troubles me. I'll give it a shot, but it troubles me. No Kevin Conroy, no Mark Hamill, no Paul Dini, no Bruce Timm. The Joker with his pajamas and his Solomon Grundy-esque hands and feet. And that cheesy-looking roster of ancillary good guy characters? (Am I missing something, or is there no Jim Gordon in this series?)

After reading that review and seeing those pics, I'm already worried but still hopeful. But I'll still watch the series, still give it a chance. Who knew that the Joker had such lush, flowing hair back in the day! *smirk*

Warners probably decided on the reboot for the following reasons.

1) B:TAS was done to tie into the movies Batman and Batman Returns. While not a direct tie in, it did feature a Penguin who looked like the movie version, and they never went into the origins of either the Joker or Penguin on the show. With the long time since a Batman movie and the new movie coming out, they wanted a series that would take advantage of that new look, even though the animated version will be out before the new movie I think.

2) Remember, the core audience is the 8-14 crowd, not the adults watching the show. Adults are a part of it, but a whole generation has grown up with the old cartoon, people want something new. The design of The Batman is based on what kids like in Cartoons today, as the anime influence has had a big effect nowadays. I think the animation company is the same that does Jackie Chan Adventures.

3) Animation tends to change. I've seen both Filmation and Hanna Barbara do Batman and Superman in the past. Should I have been mad that the Dini version reinterpreted them? Should I be mad that X-Men: Evolution ignored the X-Men cartoon of the 90's for the movie version? Should I be mad that the Teen Titans cartoon isn't like the Wolfman/Perez version? What about all the Spider-Man cartoons that have been introduced!

Even B:TAS changed when they introduced Superman--the character styles changed and got more iconic and less realistic.

I think this will be a good show, as long as they respect the characters thoroughly. It may not be what we are used to, but hopefully it will keep the legend alive and please its audience.

Yeah, but those Marvel projects had Stan Lee's approval. Thus, it earned the fan's approval. Still, you've raised valid points.

And I just saw the Joker... Scarred...that's all I have to say.

ETA I don't know who is pushing this new Batman.

So The Edge did the theme? At least it wasn't "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me." Blech. I'll be tuning in, even though that rendering of the Joker is pretty bad IMHO. I know the guy worked on Jackie Chan Adventures, but did he have to give him Hak Foo's hairdo?

Reimagining my ass. The real Joker should be in a hideous purplesuit and should NOT under any circumstances, have dreads

Kids' WB has a video up from next week's episode. Rino Romano as Bats is going to take a little getting used to, although he's not bad at all, just different from what we're used to. Kevin Michael Richardson, however, does a really good Joker. IMO, he's right up there with Hamill.

I just watched the first episode and didn’t think it was terrible. It’s not great either, but I can still see myself tuning in each week. I just hate that this series throws out thoughtful plots and characterization in hopes to make Batman more X-TREME! Really, what is up with the Joker? I can deal with the new look, but is he supposed to a meta-human because there is no way in hell that the Joker can keep up with Batman in hand-to-hand combat and bounce off freakin’ walls! And in the promos, did I see the Penguin’s tubby ass pummeling Batman with kicks? How are they going to explain all this?

I have a suspicion that they don't want any "excessive violence" in the series, so you will not see things like guns. The fact that the Joker gas is not fatal was also a sign. The old series had no problem with victim death. You're probably going to see a lot more judo and boxing then anybody pulling a realistic gun.

I like the fact we are dealing with a more lighthearted Batman, but I think they are diverging a little too much from the source material for comfort.

Hmm. That Matrix bullet time/Joker card thing really bugged me. I agree that this is more lighthearted, but a little too much for my own taste. Unless it's Alfred being snarky, which I'm all for. My verdict is in on this: I really, really hate Rasta Joker's look after seeing him in action. The personality's there (pretty good VA from Richardson) but I can't stand that look.

He has no shoes. Joker's crazy as shit, but he has NO shoes. Maybe the joker gas is concentrated ganja.

Trying to find bright spots in a sea of third-person references: the cop duo from the pages of "Gotham Central"? Snarky Alfred? Catwoman with the current comics look and not one from her "movie"? Seriously...Dini and Timm were the shit, and right now this stuff seems to be for kids younger than us with ADD.

"The Batman" doesn't premiere in my area until tomorrow morning (8:30am, to be precise). So far, I've read a lot of mixed reviews and heard a lot of people slamming the animation. Still, I'm going to give it a chance, even though I usually don't get up that early on Sundays. I mean, it's Batman, y'know? You have to give him a chance, no matter how great the odds!

Not half bad... not great yet. The timeline is screwy, I thought 'the Batman' would take place in the 50s-60s.

I miss the square-jaw on TAS.

Is it just me, or did they go with the dreads on the Joker for a jester-hat effect? Either way, I concur that zoot suits are the only way for the Joker to go.

Quick thought: Alfred gives Bruce a cake with three candles, since it's been three years that Batman's been operating. As I was walking today, something popped in my mind: "So he started work on 9/11?" Yeah, not the intent of the WB or the writers, but the timing just flat-out sucked.

While I understand WB's reasoning to re-booting the Batman franchise, for a new generation, I just can't seem to get into it. At all. It's just too "Saturday morning-ish", for me. I don't know, if that makes any sense. Plus, I'm not that big a fan of Jeff Matsuda's style; even from his early comic days. Also, there's just too much emphasis on Bat-gadgets and sound FX (on my way to the toystore, right now, to pick some up!). Oh, and the noisy, flying bat transitions got really obnoxious, after awhile. And the script wasn't that great; one-liners just came off stiff and dull.

Maybe it impoves, who knows? I'll give it another two, but I'll likely stick w/ JLU.

As someone who grew up watching BTAS and it's spinoffs, I tried to go into this as non-biased as possible. Here's what I thought.

Good

-The animation as a whole is pretty good, the characters usually moved smoothly.
-The voice actors were in a difficult position, particularly Bats and the Joker, but I though they did OK. It's tough to follow what many (like myself) believe to be the definitive actors for the roles.

Average

-Did we really need to see token minorities in the cop roles? It's a little too transparent for my taste.
-The new designs. I don't like it, but who knows what others think. I still think the Joker should invest in a pair of shoes. Batman is OK, but Bruce Wayne needs work.

Poor

-Alfred. Come on, as a top notch butler shouldn't you be better at controlling your surprise instead of dropping vases?
-The simplified Joker origin. They are clearly meeting for the first time, and I think the original connection between Batman and the Joker added to the dynamic.
-Who knew the Joker was such a great fighter? I don't think that should be an aspect of the character.
-The Batwave. Bruce, if you want to conceal your ID you shouldn't whip out devices that have a flashing bat on the screen.
-The plot. It was kind of simplistic, and I sure hope they live in a universe where water neutralizes toxins.

I TiVoed this and just got around to watching it. Having also grown up on B:TAS, I apporached with caution and at least tried to have an open mind. My overall reaction?

Meh. Nothing of any real substance. Everytime a familiar character came on screen, I kept thinking "hey, that doesn't sound like Batman, Joker, Alfred, etc." The theme song was the strongest aspect of the show to me, but pales in comparison to the music of TAS. Token minorities, Bruce's lack of secrecy, the Joker's horrible design, etc. made this hard to watch.

I'll give it a few more episodes before I make any final decisions. I'll probably continue to watch because there are not very many other good cartoons on Saturday morning, but then I might just watch my TAS DVDs.

I thought the episode was enjoyable, but not particularly clever or inventive. "Two sides of the same coin?" Maybe that line would have seemed fresher if I hadn't seen Tim Burton's first Batman movie.

I liked the character designs, for the most part. (Notable exception: Commissioner Muttonchops. What the hell?) I didn't mind that the characters looked different because as a comics reader, I've seen a few hundred different interpretations of them by now. The Joker has mostly been in a purple suit -- and in the 70's the pants were these hideous flared numbers -- but he's had other outfits as well, like the tourist get-up he wore in part of "The Killing Joke." I kind of liked the modified straitjacket thing he had going on, where you couldn't see his hands, or the bug-sprayer (hee!) and I liked the bare feet thing too. Especially with the black toenails. Not everybody's cup of tea, understandibly, but I found it interesting, unlike the plot. As for "the" Batman's design, I liked it. A lot of David Mazzucchelli influence, obviously, but I thought it worked. I guess this show's answer to TAS's square jaw is the semi-circle forehead he's got going on. Apparently the cowl is partly a bike helmet.

I'll keep watching for a few more episodes and see if the writing gets any better.

I've also seen a lot of design from reading the coics. I thought this Joker seemed more like the Creeper though.

I thought it suck-diddly-ucked.

About the only thing going on that I liked was the re-styled Joker, in terms of his clothes. Not big on the rasta-hair, but I like the idea that he wears a straight-jacket.

But everything else was just... wrong.

Ellen Yin (Yim?)... she doesn't strike me as particularly Asian looking... she could just as easily be Hispanic, so why not name her Renee Montoya?

Bruce is REALLY lazy about his secret identity. Even on a darkened city street, he wouldn't approach the Batmobile out of uniform, and he certainly wouldn't carry the Batwave (if he did, it wouldn't be obviously a "bat-device", because he wouldn't want anything bat related on his person... it'd look like any other palm pilot). Guh.

Wow, Bruce and the guy hunting the Batman are old friends? Not a tired cliche at all.

And the Joker broke into Arkham to make it his "hideout"? Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. It's called a hideout because you can hide. You can't hide if everyone knows you're there.

Overall, I got no sense of motivation from anyone. I definitely got the impression that everyone was doing whatever they did because their props being moved through the plot, rather than characters with their own agenda. The Joker was the worst violator... even knowing that the Joker just likes to kill people didn't really help me buy into his gas-filled balloon. Maybe I just didn't get it because I was already annoyed at the ridiculous "take over Arkham" concept.

And I just flat did not like the animation. It's far too "Jackie Chan" for my taste, it definitely plays to a younger crowd than TAS, and just from the opening segment I can already tell I'm going to hate their version of the Penguin (though I kinda like the brief glimpses of Mr. Freeze).

I'll probably watch another episode or two here or there, simply because there's not much on Saturday mornings anymore, but I do not like this show.

I wasn't going to watch this show, because I don't think there's any way to really improve on Dini and Timm's version and I doubt anyone else can match it. The reviews you guys have posted haven't really changed my mind.

I never liked Matsuda very much as an artist and many of the things I don't like about his art seem to have carried over to the animation designs. Stupid WB.

ITA. I don't even watch Jackie Chan Adventures, only every now and then do I see a minute or two of it, and I don't like it. I think TAS has spoiled me in terms of the look and personality of these characters so I wasn't impressed with this (imho) dumbing down of the Batman world. If I'm awake and at home, I'll watch it a few more times to give the show a chance.

BTW, was that the ManBat that our caped crusader is riding in one of the teaser shots of upcoming villains?

I don't know what to think. It was horrible, but I don't like it. I fear for the cartoons I watched as a small child.

Did this cartoon have Kevin Conroy or Mark Hamill? No? Then this cartoon is already inferior and should be placed on the dung heap.

Not to mention the shoddy animation. When oh when will people in charge realize that the animation used for B:TAS was by far the superior super hero cartoon animation. It's just gotten more Japanized, and that pisses me off. Teen Titans is a perfect example.

Generally, I liked it, although there were a few gaffes, like the "Bat-Wave"; how stupid can you get? Overall...

GOOD

The animation, although it was a lot like "Jackie Chan" with a dash of "Teen Titans"; hell, Bruce even looks like Jackie!

The action was believable, not as over-the-top as the two aformentioned shows.

Alfred was cool, but c'mon, the dropped vase? Get a grip, man.

BAD

No Commissioner (or whatever) Gordon? WTF?

Releasing the gas underwater--kill a lot of fish & wait for it to bubble back to the surface? Um, no.

Token Black Guy Cop & Token Asian Girl Cop; this could get ugly. And speaking of which...

UGLY

The "new" Joker needs a makeover by the "Queer Eye" hit squad. Bring back the zoot suits!

OVERALL

Needs work, but I'll still be back next week. What can I say? I'm a Bat-Fan!

I tried to rewatch the episode today with my friend who hadn't seen it yet. We just started the tape and right into the credits, he told me to pause it because he saw "something which may cause [him] to never watch this show again." I finally managed see what he was talking about: a really, really awful looking Bane. (It's right after the ManBat clip.) Bane looked like a bloated Mucha Lucha character. Not good. I fast-forwarded to the part where Batman first meets Rasta Joker because I wanted him to see that he had no shoes. (I also wanted to hear Joker say "Permaclown" - that was probably the only bit of dialogue I liked.) But I couldn't make him watch the whole episode in its entirety because he'd already dismissed the show as crap based on the animation alone. See, I'm willing to give this another shot (hell, I'm giving Father of the Pride another shot) but one of these days, I know I'll tune in and be throughly disgusted with how so-and-so looks/sounds/acts and that'll be the end of it.

This morning's episode was just meh....plus Penguin now doing killer karate moves is so much out of character. Seems like the animators want everyone to fight Jackie Chan style.

Also, a bit of new story, turns out Alfred's family (the Pennyworths) had been servicing the Cobblepots. Alfred was in Penguin's lair.

Just meh.... and I'll say it again,I miss Batman's square chin.

I didn't think it was that bad. It didn't have the rushed feeling that last week did, where they had to introduce all the characters. They gave Penguin two things they didn't give Joker: an origin and a motive, which definitely helped. I also like the Alfred tie in, and the giant tree that housed all the birds was pretty cool. Although, I did a huge eyeroll when Penguin brokeout the ninja moves. It's not on the same level as B:TAS, but I enjoy it.

The flippers are back. The flippers are back.

The God. DAMN. Flippers! are back!

Gah, I thought we'd moved past that little misstep during the World's Finest era. At least TAS had the excuse that WB wanted the animated Penguin to line up with the Danny DeVito Penguin.

Of course, the characterization is more Burtonesque than "suave crimeboss", so I can't say I'm surprised, but if that's the theme of this series, take the already deranged rogue's gallery and make them even more psychotic, they're doing their job.

The Kabuki Twins, though, were pure, "What the fuck????"

Still, the story hung together better than last week. And it's Batman, and it's not utter crap, so I'll continue to subject myself.

I just can't stomach this anymore. I watched about half of today's episode before I just had to turn it off. For me, this just isn't Batman. And this Alfred comes across as way too prissy.

Personally, I like the flippers. Anything to make the Penguin -- who I consider to be a lame, vaudevillian character -- a little darker and creepier. Otherwise he seems more like a transplanted silver age Superman villain, along the lines of the Prankster or the Toy Man. But I totally agree with this sentiment:



Honestly, what was the point, other than to provide two generic martial arts opponents for Batman? Before the robes and wigs came off, I thought maybe they were going to throw us some kind of Penguin-themed twist, like revealing that the silent pair were actually some weird species of long-legged bird. Y'know, the kind that can disembowel a man with a kick of their legs. And Penguin had trained them to follow him around and move in a vaguely humanoid fashion. Instead we got ninjas. Whatever.

And exactly how many yards of chain were inside that umbrella, anyway? Ah, the magic of (crappy) cartoons.

I'll keep watching for a little while longer, but I have a sinking feeling that it's not going to get much better than this.

So far...the theme music is good. The rest? Sucks.

Oh well. It kills time before Yu-Gi-Oh and there's always the mute button.

Heh. We're twelve.

I'm sorry...Bats and Alfred have been doing this shit for three years. So you would think Alfred would have his cell on vibrate while going to La Case Cobblepot to retrieve his trays. Yeah, whatever.

Oh-for-two in my book. Bummer.