The foundation Martha is talking about is the Luthor Foundation (or possibly Luthorcorp Foundation). A lot of really rich families and most large corporations have their own foundation.

The 'piano curse' scenes in Spell were, I thought excellent, and worthy of a much better show(or at least episode). I'm curious as to which other scenes over the years have seemed out of place quality wise for the episode they were in, and/or for the show in general. There have been some excellent eps as a whole, but in otherwise mediocre eps...which scenes dazzled?

The other scene that comes to mind right away is the ending scene at Whitney's father's funeral. Everything from the music to the editing just rocked for me in that scene.


I guess on the flip side-Which scenes in really good eps were just badly done?

Chloe and Clark's interview scene with Lex in the beginning of Kinetic. It's one of the rare times we got to see people on this show just interacting in a natural way and all three of them were so sparkly and on their game. It was realistic while the rest of the episode was just... lame.

Clark and Lex talking about politics at the mansion in Drone and later at the Talon. It was anvilicious in a good way but seemed out of place in a crappy episode about bees and Mama Kent's interpretive dance.

Lex tracks down and then beats up Helen's ex on a train in Precipice. It had this great noir, crime drama kind of feel in an episode that was really all over the place. Stupid kickboxing Lana.


Lana's daddy issue scenes really stuck out badly in the otherwise excellent Insurgence. Lana often feels shoehorned into an episode but this one was especially bad.

The coincidental doppelganger reveal at the end of Zero. A fry cook who just happens to look like Jude? Stupid! Such a good episode except for that.

I'm trying to think of examples from season 3, but aside from Shattered and Asylum most of the season just blurs together for me.

The Chloe bashing scenes and the Clana scenes in Rosetta and the Calling, both good eps with a few mediocre scenes.

As for bad eps with good scenes, there's the Lex blows everything in sight scene from Hothead.

Season Three is a blur for me as well, Cyb. It was the most hit-and-miss season for the show, and I really only remember Lex's scenes and the whole story with Chloe and Lionel's trial. Oddly enough though, some of my all-time SV favorites aired last season. S3 had some of the highest highs, but also a lot of the lowest lows.



I agree, but I'd also tack on Sherrif Cheshire's appearance in train car. I cringe everytime she shows up, and she ruined that final scene for me.

Every episode has a mix of the good and bad scenes/developements. Even the worst eps, have some important/well done bits and not even the best are free of conyinuity errors and other dumb stuff. It's like ying and yang ;)

I can't think of many specifics because the A-plots (FOTWs usually) are what I associate with the title. But, the continuing storyarc developements are usually the best and most memorable of individual scenes. The dull stuff runs together because it is formulaic and cliched and all pretty much the same. The good parts run together because it furthers the story. It really is like watching two shows at the same time.

NikkiJ wrote in the media thread:

I thought Crisis was one of the worst episodes of the season (time traveling kryptolightning??) and Covenant (Forehead Nipple meets Galactic Boob) was a real snooze until the last 5 minutes. Legacy was a mixed bag for me. Relic, while not horrible, was just gimmicky and so-so.

My Top 5 would have been

5. Perry
4. Phoenix
3. Asylum
2. Memoria
1. Shattered

oh good idea cyb.

5)Fever
4)Transference
3)lineage
2)Obscura
1)Rush

Mine would have been:

1) Rosetta - the CR appearance, Clark learning more about his Kryptonian heritage and the unexpectedly sinister message from his biological father, the look on Bo's face at the end when he hugs his son, and just the overall fact that there was a truly a concrete sense that this was what the heart of Smallville *should* have been about: the discovery and moulding of an alien superhero, even while throwing an surprising twist along the way.

2) Shattered - A trusting, heroic Clark defying his parents and society, poor woobie Lex, Lionel in all his Magnificent Bastard-liness, Lana crushed by a horse, the Big Secret revealed. A truly dramatic cliffhanger ending that left me on the edge of my seat wondering how the fuck they were going to resolve it (the answer, obviously, is BADLY).

3) Lineage - I loved the revelations of what happened after the meteor shower and the inextricable connection that binds the Kents and the Luthors. Clark inadvertantly called Lana on something and she was sheepish about it, Clark and Lex's angsty HoYay sadness in the "are you my brother" scene, Chloe getting busted and revealing more about her own family, Rachel and Lionel ... lots of good stuff.

4) Hourglass - the first truly dramatic episode of season one. The actress playing Cassandra was great, and the visions of both Clark *and* Lex's future were beautifully evocative of their fears about their inevitable destiny. And I loved the unexpected (for me anyway!) ending where it turns out the death she prophecized was her own.

5) Heat - Just a really fun, flirty and interesting episode chock full of jealousy and HoYay goodness, Clark dealing with his powers, a hot female actress who had chemistry with Lex ... Nothing thought-provoking or larger-than-life, but it was the perfect example of just how enjoyable some light frothy entertainment could be when it's done well (in contrast to say, S4's Spell).

To be fair to SFX, it is eps from S3 only. I had to go and look at a list to remember them. I think mine will be similar to Cyb's.

5)Truth-Good Chole ep and the MB was just fantastic in it.
4)Phoenix-Lana got dismissed, the hug and Clark stll acting like Kal.
3)Asylum-The last time I liked Clark as he tried to do the right thing.
2)Memoria-Love the fact that Lex has covered for his Mum all these years.
1)Shattered-What else is there to say, just stunning.

I think this isn't just my favorite episode of season 3 but of the series. It never stops moving, Lana is used effectively (and hardly at all), and it ends with Johnny Cash. Plus, Clark behaves like a friend and hero, and even when he lets panic take him over and he leaves Lex to the wolves, I'm still sympathetic towards him.


Truth and Delete would be my 7th and 6th favorite episodes, in that order. I was going to try to come up with a top ten for season 3, but then realized only 7 episodes would be on it. I'd probably throw in Legacy just because I loved CR so much, but I felt it was kind of a so-so episode other than Dr. Swann. In fact, I don't remember anything in the episode except Dr. Swann calling Clark immature. Let's call that my 8th favorite episode, then.

And I guess the last couple of minutes of Talisman could get honorary #9 but the rest of it sucked. Good riddance, Jeremiah Coleslaw .

Clark ripped Lex's shirt off. That's pretty much what I remember about it.

I really should have stopped watching the show after Memoria. Everyone else praises that show to the heavens but I wanted to kill Clark for his asshatty going to Lionel in it and then sulking over the consequences, blaming Lex for his kryptobath. My hatred for Clark began then. Memoria would never be on any list of mine other than the shitlist.

Reminds me I'd still like to get the CD it came from. Once in a while, I'll start up that song in my mind and start to sing, but realize again that I don't know the rest of it. So it disintegrates into plucky, tuneless guitar noises, squelches to a halt, and slams to the ground with a bang.



That reminds of something from Allison Mack's commentary about Lex during Truth. She totally understands the appeal of Woobie Lex, she just didn't use that precise, concise term for it.

She described it exactly, though. I guess she just hasn't ever heard our TWOP abbreviation before. (But how fun that she Has picked up the word Snarky from her fans.)

I'd forgotten all about that.

Asshat Clark.

I wonder how many takes they had to shoot for that scene? Those guys seem to play around a lot.

ETA:

I had a really hard time coming up with more than 7 episodes I liked during season 3. There were five really excellent episodes, imo, and a couple of really good ones, with the rest ranging from mediocre to complete stinkers.

In contrast I had no problem coming up with a top ten for season 1 : 10. Craving 9. Stray 8. Tempest 7. Pilot 6. Hug 5. Shimmer 4. Hourglass 3. Jitters 2. Leech 1. Rogue

Nicodemus almost made the list, but in retrospect that Lexana whipped cream scene kind of ruins it for me now.

For season 1, I came up with 9: 9. Visage, 8. Accelerate, 7. Ryan, 6. Red, 5. Heat, 4. Suspect, 3. Insurgence, 2. Lineage, 1. Prodigal

Visage almost didn't make the list because of the psycho lesbian stalker story, but EJ and TW did really good jobs of playing a 17 year old girl. I'm not counting TW's delivery of "Why don't you just diiiieeee!?" which, while not "good" exactly, was extremely entertaining.

No Rosetta?

I woulda picked Rush over Visage and Rossetta over Accelerate. Calling was good too, despite the Clana.
For S1, I woulda picked Nicodemus over Craving, mainly because Bo cracks me up -- esp when he's bitching out the bank worker for having no balls.

Sadly, Rosetta was ruined for me by the teen drama half of it. The mythology half of it was really well written, but I felt like I was watching two shows badly spliced together. If I could take out the parts with simpering, manipulative Lana and emotional blackmailing Clark, it would bump the episode up to about #7 for me.

What's needed is a DVD series featuring the TWOP edit of Smallville. Naturally packed with plenty of special TWOP extras.

Trevacious Guy That's just about the best idea I've ever heard! Oh, and to all you TWoP people in charge, let me be the first to say that I would pay BIG money to have your kickass version of SV. (I'm assuming, no... demanding the Clex will be full force!)

Can we have Omar doing commentaries like Regina did for the Alias DVDs?

That would absolutely rule! Omar? You listening? Could you do that?

I've always had the feeling that JJ has the odd feeling of respect for TWoP. Somehow I doubt that the DOMOS have the good sense. I'm just saying...

With that being said, if someone can find the address to which we can flood them with this request, I'm all for it.

Then there would be a small amount of justice in the world. It would be nice for someone to tell it like it really is, half the face of Helen (Lex) and the other Medusa (Lana/crappy writing) side of the show!

*Roots Omar on with Arsenio Hall whoomp* Whoomp! Whoomp! Whooop!

We're about halfway through the season and so far, Transference is the only episode I've thought was really good. Even then, I have to qualify it by saying, "Except for the damn Deus Ex Clarkina Blessed Jesus Liver for Lionel." Devoted was fun but anything with football!Clark just sets my teeth on edge. Now, to be fair, I haven't watched all of Spell or Bound (Spellbound! get it?) but I think I'm safe in not judging those to be Greats.

though if we were judging the top 10 greatest scenes, the elevator scene would be in that list--most definately. Most definately.

Watching Fever and Rosetta reminds me what a spiteful bitch Lana can be. Gawd, the final scene in Fever still sticks in my craw. *spits nails*

Sorry, it's just that seeing Chloe apologize to Lana and practically beg her to stay still sits poorly with me. It's so unfair that Lana will never get what she deserves on this show.

Seems like the only continuity and character consistency on the show is how unlikeable Lana is!

And how none of the other characters seem capable of realizing it. 'Cept maybe Lionel (while in Clark's body), who showed a healthy exasperation with her attempts to bait him into jealousy, and then treated her to mockery. :)

In the TWOP special editions, I wonder how many Lana scenes would wind up on the discarded *gag* reel... (The term "gag" being interpreted in a Literal rather than Comedic sense in this case.)

It occurred to me that this show could actually be, without our knowing it, the story of Wonderwoman. That would explain why everyone is always telling Lana how wonderful she is, and why Clark - the supposed Superman - is such an asshat.

And the tattoo is not just a witch symbol, but designates her as an Amazon princess! And her obsession with secrets and lies is what will eventually lead to her getting the Lasso of Truth. The only part that doesn't make sense is why she would later eschew both pink and black to wear red, white, & blue.

LOL! I love this Wonder Woman origins story idea!

Where's Lana going to get the requisite bosom, though?

Scabby Abbie got krpytoboob-implants. Why can't she?

And they'll probably make Lex pay for them.

WW's wonders are Natural, not surgical.

She turns to U.S. patriotism as an outlet to express her disappoinment in French art schools.

Or maybe a cave wall/church sculpture/back of a matchbook tells her to!

You know, I trace the downhill slide of the show (for me anyway) to Skinwalker. Before the Caves of Contrivance there were still giant anvils but the characters themselves didn't know the outcome of the story, and acted appropriately. Now in addition to the caves, we have ancient Egyptian artifacts, witches books, church sculptures...all turning characters into passive objects in their own story. Instead of fighting their worse instincts, or trying to determine their own destinies, they've been manipulated into playing certain roles beyond their control. They've all been turned into Lana: Someone who things happen to, someone who's controlled by greater forces.

In Hourglass, when characters got a glimpse of the future, they tried to change it. Even as recently as Hereafter and Crisis, Clark was still trying to change the future. But this season he (and others) seem to have given up on that. In Gone, he more or less surrenders to what the caves say, and in every episode since, his actions have reflected that. Instead of trying to change the future as he did in previous seasons, he passes judgements as if the future has already happened. Instead of helping Lex to change, he tells him to change, and not with nearly the degree of concern he had in Hourglass.

Interesting point Cyb! I've never been a fan of the caves. The whole Woman Being Clark's Destiny was strange and made no sense to the mythos whatsoever except that we finally got to see Clark really like someone without it being forced down his throat...so much.

Al "addresses" what you're talking about in a different light. I see their intentions but I also see your point. Al calls it "accepting" while you call it "surrendering." At this point, it does seem like Clark has merely surrendered. when he whines that he's "the only one that can stop it" [Was that Run?] that's not a positive sense of accepting, but rather a flat out whiney "oh all right--if you say so--but i better get my allowance because this is shit" surrendering.

I hope to actually see Clark start this "accepting" that they speak of. Now that I think of it, the word "accepting" is very vague. Political word--maybe then intend to have Clark whine about it forever.

Well, like Buffy--yet again--it IS a surrendering-not really an acceptance. "I do this because I HAVE to. I am THE slayer." Personally, I believe a part of Clark loves that side of him-as did Buffy. (Sorry to use Buffy-but she's the only recent to memory "hero" I have).

How many of us have been told what we will become in the future-either by well-meaning parents, abusive parents, alcoholism/drug addiction in the family, inherited family diseases, depression/ and or suicide in the family?

Yet, most days, we get up and we fight that. (Like Lex)

Then there are those who say "Well, my whole family is alcoholic, therefore I will be, and so, why bother fighting. Just give in and go with it." (Like Clark)

It's probably why the fighting amongst the two fan groups causes so much stress and hostility-it's not so much about Clark and Lex as it is about the type of people we are, and how we judge the other side to be. It's VERY personal. Not just characters on a TV show.

The freaking caves were bad enough-though I've have a blast joking about cartoon cave drawings and being so jealous that I haven't found my cave yet. That, with the Egyptian, and now magical crap is just to me another excuse as to why "It's not my fault." for Clark and Lana.


ETA--I see "accepting" as understanding what something is, what my motives are, and taking an active role in living it out, or changing it. Also, understanding other's motives-and what they have to gain/lose by my staying the same, or my changing. If I change, they have to change to adapt to that. So, accepting has to be taking an active role-whereas I see surrendering as a passive role: I give in and give up-this is just the way it is. It's not my fault.

ITA. And like you say, you can accept something and then try to live it or change it. What the characters are doing now is being moved around like pieces on a chessboard. To her credit, Lana has somewhat struggled with it (trying to get the tattoo removed in Facade) but it's still something that happened to her. She was "born" into her role, her role was foretold, etc. She's the same passive object getting stalked she's always been, except this time she's stalked by "destiny".

Aquarius , outstanding post. ITA, on all points.

I watched Witness tonight on ABC Family, and I was just struck by how horrible Lana Lang was in S2. Granted, I've never been fond of her character, but she was written as being especially heinous in S2. Fever had her reading Chloe's private letter to Clark, then using Chloe's words as her own as she expressed her feelings to Clark in the Talon. Lana looked right at Chloe (who looked so sad in that scene) before plunging ahead with her little pledge of love. She pitied Chloe for her unrequited crush in Rosetta, and didn't admit to knowing about Chloe's letter when she mentioned it. And in Witness, she watched Chloe and Clark come close to ending their relationship over something that even involved her, and yet she acted like she had no idea as to what their beef was about. She wasn't as bad in S3 or so far in S4, but wow, she was horrible in S2.

S2 Lana= Beyotch But the DOMOS would have it like the dinosaur baby
"Gotta Love her!!"

Hello there everyone! I missed practicaly all of Season 3, and was just wondering what happened to Helen. Was anything resolved? Thanks!

It was sort of resolved. Not very well, imo. When Lex came back from Hallucination Island, Lionel told Lex that Helen had been behind the plane crash. So Lex cons her into taking another flight with him, letting her believe he trusts and loves her. But then she pulls a gun on him and says she drugged Lex the first time then jumped out of the plane. She told him that she loved him too much to just shoot him... because apparently dying in a crash is more tender and caring? It didn't make sense to me. Anyway, I think they wrestled for the gun, then accidentally shot the pilot. Lex went to go get control of the plane from the dead captain and Helen jumped out.

Now, either we can take it at face value, or we can think that Lex and Helen staged the whole thing to make Lionel think that Helen is out of the picture. I have a feeling AlMiles will retcon it however they need to, if they decided to revive that plot. As things stand now, Helen is either dead or missing, or still floating around somewhere in her parachute.

Thanks Cyb! I appreciate that!

I'm attempting :) to write a fanfic and I'm trying to come up with a physical description for Enrique, but I can't for the life of me remember an episode he's been on to get a screen capture. Did Lex just mention him in passing or is it possible that he's a fandom creation?

ETA: Also, is he Lex's butler, go to boy or something else?

Enrique is mostly a fan creation. He was in a season 1 episode for all of two seconds (I don't remember which episode) and his name was never mentioned. He just opened the door for someone and showed them into Lex's mansion office. A TWOP poster at the time (I think Saki?) gave him the name Enrique. "Enrique" in the episode was blond, I think, but back when he had his own thread in the baddies section, I think his description varied. In other words, I think you can describe him pretty much any way you want.

It was in Cool.

Thanks Cyb and hachurui.

I'm confused. I'd read somewhere that there was going to be some big thing on the last episode to air before the holiday break. Wah? Did I miss something? Was the 'I think Chloe knows something' moment supposed to be the big, exciting thing?

I'm finding it hard to believe that mediocre episode was the last until January.