Dude. That was a damned strange episode.

More when I have a chance to think about it some more.

I'm not certain what to think of this episode...some parts I quite enjoyed, others were "meh".

Much love for the Trip / T'Pol interaction while making repairs. That little laugh he made while describing their honeymoon...note perfect.

But we all know why Reed never married. Oh, we know.

OT: I love the Citi Credit Card Fraud spots. "There's enough of Larry to go around." ::: snort :::

ETA: I found myself humming along with the theme song and I'm very frightened.

It wasn't "Children of Time" good. But it was pretty good. I kind of wish the two main people on Futureprise weren't the descedants of Archer, T'Pol and Trip-- it would have been nice if the command crew had been mixed up a bit. Would a Capt. Sato been too much to ask for?

Great ep. CQ, shut up and let T'pol ask who the father is yeesh.
Yea!!! Hoshi and Travis lines. More than one each.
Poor Reed, it doesn't look any better for him next week.
As for the actul plot, I felt it was well intagrated with the whole Xindi story arch
Oh and Phlox's grand kids were adorable too.

One nit pick, T'pol was really old would she have aged that much? I know it was a hundred years. Did they ever say how old she is now?

Hm. I...kinda liked it. I just don't get the point of it. It seemed like a bottle episode wrapped in a story arc.

Reed didn't get married? Yeah--FutureReed told him off camera "Look, fool. YOU'RE GAY. Deal."

They never said her exact age in any of the other episodes, so it could be possible for her to be that old. Looking at her on futureprise, you could tell that she may be close to one hundred on the normal enterprise.

I admit it, I love me some time travel. I thought it was neat, at the end, when T'Pol and Archer were discussing whether the other crew ever existed or not (based on their NOT going back in time).

Good stuff.

The key to the theme song is to walk out of the room when it comes on. Or FF the tape, that works for me.

I thought I read/heard that Malcolm was going to come out on the show sometime, so I was on the edge of my seat waiting to hear why he "really" never married....

Hee! Although I liked the continuity in his skirt-chasing- I'm pretty sure that blond was one of the Bridge crew we saw racing around at the end of Azati Prime.

Loved the Lorian/Trip/T'pol scenes: especially the scene where Trip is needling her with details of their future relationship. "Paaalm tree."

That is the point in time which I choose to take a bathroom break. (TMI?)

Anyway, I really liked the scene between T'Pol and, well... T'Pol. I guess she'll stop being so stubborn now. And the scene between Trip and Lorian.

I read somewhere that T'Pol is supposed to be around 65, which would make old T'Pol around 182. I guess she would have aged a bit, especially with the Pa'nar syndrome, which sadly they didn't address at all.

Not the best episode, but not bad. Some of it was weird.

Edited into oblivion because re-reading it gave me the twitchies.

What drove me nuts about this episode? Roddy McDowellon the bridge. Lorian was a mirror image of him.

Big meh. And real irritation that T'Pol never fully recovers. Please fix this next season. I do not want an emotional T'Pol next season. But, she should give Trip some credit and talk with him.

Nice scene with Travis and Hoshi. And the reason Reed didn't get married? Wouldn't share his limited supply of lipgloss. Or he's waiting for lis.

I go with option #2, myself (hee!).

I forgot to tape it! I'm so disgruntled. I'll catch it this weekend, but now I'm really curious. I'll stay out of this thread to avoid further spoilage, but I wanted to whine about missing it, and also to see initial reactions. Seems...mixed. I'm now even madder about missing it!

No. Just...no.

But although I basically hated this episode (time travel stories make my brain hurt), there were scenes I liked. I liked Mayweather, Hoshi, and Reed gossiping about their futures. I liked the very begining of the double T'Pol scene when young T'Pol couldn't even look at old T'Pol. I liked the very end, with Degra saying "You're early".

But mostly I hated.

I especially hated Lorian, because if there's going to be a human/vulcan hybrid, I want Spock! Or something like Spock. I know, I know. Lorian wasn't raised by Vulcans. I don't care. I want Spock.

Was I the only person to think that, given the appearance of CQ's great-grandaughter, that he and Hoshi were her ancestors?

And CQ's line about maybe history changing -- was that a Quantum Leap moment, or what?

I forgot to add: I really did love that after Enterprise pirated the warp coil from the whoevers last week, Furtureprise turned around and pirated their plasma injectors. Hee!

Yeah, it came back to bite them real quick. I was cackling with evil delight. However, talk about beating a dead horse. We saw that two weeks ago.

I was really hoping there would be a scene with Phlox near the end commenting on his apparent mack daddy skillz on the Futureprise.

"Whose the alien doc who's a sex machine with all the chicks?"
"PHLOX!"
"You're damnnnn right!"

I had mixed feelings as well, mostly because everyone seemed to be in chowder-head mode regarding using E2 for the mission against the passage-gaurding aliens, and especially since no one figured out that changing the timeline would, you know, change the timeline. Oy. For that reason, I do somewhat hope E2 stays dissapeared, because the temporal knots that would ensue from their still being around would seriously make my head hurt.

However, I did like a lot of the character interaction. Lorian reminded me a lot of Elrond from LOTR, which was kind of amusing. There was also a lot of name-dropping-- we got a mention of Rostov, Cpl. McKenzie, and an ambigously named "Amanda" who may or may not be Amanda Cole. And NX-02 is going to be the Columbia? Aw.

Haven't seen it yet (but all the spoilage in the world won't interfere with my enjoyment - or lack thereof, if they screwed up their temporal mechanics). However,

made me wonder - are you sure the name isn't spelled Lorien?

Yeah, all the LotR geeks out there just started giggling... :)

With all that weird yellow lighting on the E2, when I first saw T'pol's face -- all I could think of was that she looked a lot like Yoda.

Ummm, confusing time paradoxes are.

[*bonk myself on the head*] I can't believe I didn't get the reference! It has to be Cole. How many crew members named Amanda can there be when only 1/3 of the crew (down 18 people) is female? I'm glad she got over Trip.

Lorien, hee.

My UPN reception was absolutely horrible tonight. I thought he looked like Ross Perot.

I kind of thought he looked like Uncle Martin (My Favorite Martian). I kept waiting for the little antennae to sprout

Good Episode. Nothing particularly struck me as amazing, except for the ending with Degra's "You're Early", which for some reason I loved, though it made Degra look like a bastard.

Trip/T'Pol were as good as usual. So whats next? Do they start dating? I think that a secret relationship would be more plausible, but as long as we get more good character interaction it doesn't matter.

The Time Travel paradox talk at the end was nice as well, though it was a bit sad

Futureprise characters, meh.

I thought this was clever work by the writers -- if the plan hadn't worked, they would have shown up 117 years too "early".

But then, Degra would have been early if Enterprise has shown up when it was supposed to. So why was Degra there so early ?? Hmmmmm

I thought this was a good episode. I'm usually not a big time travel fan since those stories make my head hurt too but I thought it was nicely done. Nice to know what happened to these characters in their situations. I really love the Trip/T'Pol interaction and curious to see what happens next for them. Great meeting with both T'Pols.

Yay for Hoshi and Travis getting lines. Travis hooking up with Corporal Mackenzie and Hoshi having two kids. I wonder about who the father is. And poor Malcolm, stuck being the bachelor of the group. It's what you get for not sharing that lip gloss.

Well, a secret relationship seems a little far fetched considering everyone on the ship knows that they had/will have a kid together, but I agree that traditional "dating" would be weird for them. But they'll probably go back to the neuropressure sessions.

He's a bad motherfu--HEY!
I'm just talkin' 'bout Phlox!

Good episode. I like the Trip/T'Pol character interaction and Quantum failed to grate (that's two episodes in a row). I like that a Vulcan 'raised by humans' turns out to be emotionally stable (or close, anyway). Vulcans aren't robots.

Can't wait till next week.

Have to admit I am SUCH a sucker for a good temporal paradox; it's the one thing Trek always does best. This did smack of "Children of Time", but had enough of a unique spit that it was still cool.

The T'pol/T'pol scene was utterly divine, as were all the pairing-off notes (and Reed's a 'bachelor'! Ha!). I thought Lorian -sounded- too much like Quantum, personally, but hey. The big problem with him was when he nearly commited patricide. Hello! If they don't do the mission, *YOU DON'T EXIST*. Idiot. At least he ened up not-existing in the end...

And, yes, Degra gets the last laugh in. I was ROTFL at that one.

Aww. Am I the only one whose heart broke for poor Mal? No, really. He seemed so sad.

And he's sitting there, depressed, needing a few kind words, and then his friends show him a little more rejection by practically knocking the table over in their haste to Get. The. Hell. Out. I didn't know whether to laugh or whimper! Ouch!

I've not been keeping up with cancellation/renewal reports, but wow, I think this was a great episode. They're really keeping this season tight, though character development is still nothing like DS9. Yet, I think they're on their way, and if granted more seasons, I bet that would begin to happen more and more.

What I keep thinking as we come towards the end of the season, the potential end of the show, is that all of this seems so amazingly retro. It feels like I'm watching TOS with 21st century production values. The plot is cheesy, but the way they're telling the story is pretty smart, I think.

Tonight, for instance, I love that Lorian's ears looked really tacky and fake, just like half-human Spock's ears looked. A nice little detail that maybe no one else agrees with. I also love how the Enterprise is seriously beaten to crap, and yet they're just getting on with the mission. It actually feels to me like the premise for the show is being realized, and I really think it's a shame that more people aren't watching. That fight tonight between E1 and E2 really looked old-school to me, despite the good effects. Couple that with last week's shot of Trip and Reed on the exterior of the ship with the cheesy-looking nacelle in the background, and you've got a show that feels to me like it is perfectly in tune with Trek history and Trek feeling.

I really enjoyed E2 mainly for the great character moments.


Loved all the Trip/T'Pol scenes. Trip discussing their wedding with the sand and the palm tree was hilarious.

I really liked Lorian, and I really enjoyed the father/son discussion, which I found both humorous and very moving. I liked how Trip mentioned that Lorian looked like his father, but that the ears were all T'Pol's doing. I wasn't one bit surprised that Trip was thrilled to know that he was a daddy and very pleased that he didn't seem at all phased that his son was part Vulcan. It shows just how much he's changed over the last three years.

The T'Pol/T'Pol scene was amazing. Huge kudos to Jolene, I think she did a great job with the dual role.

Hee! Love that. I also loved that morsel of detail in the ep. Totally Phlox to have umpteen descendants.
I really liked this ep, mostly for the character development (see dml's post above...). Seeing Trip and T'pol's great interactions make me really kick myself for missing last week's ep (yeah, both showings).
I swear I've seen David Andrews (who played Lorian) somewhere before, but though I've seen the shows listed in his IMDB bio, I can't place him precisely. I liked him.
The thing I liked best about the ep was the open ending. It didn't give a pat ending (which is Trek's Achilles Heel in my opinion, DS9 being the general exception). "Futureprise" (tm someone cleverer than me) could have been destroyed, never existed, or still be out there. Bravo!

ETA: That was a quick return on Quantum's karma. No "afterschool special" realizations, but we all saw the piracy correlations. (The weed of piracy bears bitter fruit!) I appreciated that.

Heh.


Yeah, I guess Uncle Jonathan really instilled his noble morals in all the Futureprise kids. Quantum's revenge with the transporter leads to a question. Why don't we see ships beaming out important parts of other ships before battles in other Treks? After all, the shields aren't ALWAYS up. My fanwank is that there are special shields around power couplings and other sensitive areas of the ship.

Kudos to Jolene Blalock for doing double duty in this episode. I liked how Future T'Pol was more mellow and human, but still recognizably herself.

So many pros and cons, my head's about to explode. Either I liked it with reservations, or else I disliked it but enjoyed many of the details.

It was a rip-off of "Children of Time", and ignored the whole question of whether Futureprise (hee) would exist if Enterprise didn't go through the vortex. I was hoping Futureprise would either say "you gotta do it, and we'll go save Earth", or else "we're going to help you make us not exist and we'll be all tragic and sad". Or at least say they believed there was an alternate timeline dealy and both ships could continue to exist. Just some indication from Lorian that destroying Enterprise might be a bad idea.

Also, it bugged that they seemed to stay on the ship for the entire 117 years. They didn't pack off to some remote paradise world in the Expanse, just for vacation once or twice?

But, fitting it into the season continuity was very good. Brilliant is that we've heard the Xindi talk all season about thinking there were more Earth ships in the Expanse, and it turns out they were right. And I love the ambiguous ending. Were they destroyed? Did they make it and they'll turn up later? Did they cease to be?


Yeah, aw. Plus, I loved that it was the first thing the characters thought of, because it's by far the more reasonable thing to think.

To me, all I could see last night was that Frank Borman finally made it past the Moon. Andrews played him in "From the Earth to the Moon" (and strongly resembles him). He also played Pete Conrad in Apollo 13 (and doesn't resemble him).

Not great, not bad. For me, no Time Travel ep could ever top City on the Edge of Forever.

frenchtoast, that was my ONE problem with this episode. I can't say that I loved it, but it was definitely entertaining.

I take that back, I did have another problem with this episode: "Follow your heart". What in the world? I'm gonna say it: I don't have a problem with a Vulcan/Human relationship (specifically T'Pol and Trip). But can we keep it a Vulcan/Human relationship, please?

During the Old T'Pol/T'Pol scene, the arm that Old T'Pol extends to grab the pad appears from BEHIND Old T'Pol's shoulder. And when the arm is retracted, the humerus section is misaligned.

skye, I'm wanking that if they make it back to Earth T'Pol will be able to undergo real treatment and will make a full recovery. If not, I'll need to be gagged when watching next season.

I loved Malcolm's raised eyebrows when Karyn Archer was introduced. Nice touch. Poor Malcolm. I liked the fact that it kind of spurred him to be a little more ... approachable.

As for the time travel. Well, usually time travel makes my head hurt, but if I followed it correctly, Futureprise was sent over 100 years in the past. They just caught up to "present" time. So, if they survived the battle, they should still coexist. Therefore, I think they were destroyed, allowing Lorian to rectify that one hestitation he had previously.

My favorite scene? Trip and Lorian when Lorian tells him he was a good father. Because it's not something he got to tell Trip and he was finally able to. Plus, I can picture Trip being a really good father. *sniff*

There were some good scenes, and there have certainly been worse episodes (I'm looking at you, Exile) but overall, I wasn't greatly impressed.

Yeah, I think so too. Especially since that anvil dropped on the bunk next to him while he was in the brig.


This was my favorite scene, too. I feel bad because I know I'm supposed to care about the weapon and them saving earth, blah, blah, blah, but I find myself getting more excited over the character interaction these days.

Just a nitpick on the recaplet: the crew didn't meet their ancestors, they were the ancestors. What they met were descendants.

I agree. The character heavy scenes were a welcome change from past episodes (and you should join the discussion in Which Trek is Best and Why?).

I didn't like OldT'Pol much but I'm not sure if it was the acting, makeup, or the fact that she's apparently never going to get over the Trellium-D (definitely a big part of the dislike).

I loved the Trip and son scene. Very well done.


I was thinking that Archer's son with the alien (Ikaarans?) had had Karyn with Hoshi's daughter.

Finally able to comment! I got an overall "meh" feeling, as interesting as it was- I wasn't riveted. But after reading all these comments, I'm seeing good stuff there. I now understand why keckler doesn't come in here until the recap is done :-)

So...on the points:

-T'Pol states that "humans and Vulcans have never been able to mate." That implies that in the previous 90 years or so, there have been relationships, and people have tried. Odd. And what would make it more likely on a ship without genetic equipment? I'd see T'Pol and Phlox being the only crewmembers not to reproduce (personally, I'd count on Archer staying single too, but once an outsider is introduced, the dynamic changes). And I see we're all agreed it's Cole.

-Odd, also, is that our people refer to the aliens attacking them by name, but the descendants- many of whom are aliens- call them "aliens."

-Did I detect a reversion to a Vulcan accent in the older T'Pol, or was it just an age thing?

-Why look up what happened to you? It either ruins things or, by definition, will change things. For example, Reed was spurred into a possible relationship he otherwise wouldn't have had. I'm reminded of what Riker said at the end of "All Good Things": Perhaps the whole point of telling them (or even just showing up) was to make sure this didn't happen. I also don't see why this means Trip and T'Pol have to hook up right now- it just means they can look at each other differently.

-How does one "construct" a palm tree?

-How could the Xindi mean this ship when they had rumors of other Fleet ships if this ship didn't exist...oy. Was the mention of it in this episode after the others appeared? Double oy. I'll just chalk up the rumors to Xindi paranoia. Although it'd be...interesting if Xindi hatred of Earth had something to do with the older ship being around. As to Degra...I just thought the line was cute- maybe he was trying to be.

I've been thinking this all week: One image in the opening montage that really gets to me is the South Pacific raft at the beginning. Now there were some brave explorers. I react to the song in much the way Alias TWoPers (and the recapper) react to theirs.

akg, I agree, but with perhaps a few more generations. Having the oldest in command does make much sense, though, to pass on information and all. I wonder if NX-01 has a tractor beam now.

As to Trellium, I guess it's like LSD- it stays in the system.

I don't mean it as any kind of criticism, because I loved this episode, but Old T'Pol reminded me of Old Michelle from Romy & Michelle's High School Reunion.

I noticed it too.


Old T'Pol did say, "Give it time." If we get a season 4, hopefully the writers will follow that advice.

I liked this ep a lot, but, frankly, I can't help but wonder just what in the blue fuck the Futureprise DID for 117 years.

I mean, are we supposed to believe that CQ didn't immediately think "whoo doggies, let's go to the Xindi homeworld (which could still be intact at that point) and try to talk them out of it!"

Or, to be even more of a prick about it: "let's go to the Xindi homeworld and make sure they never, ever, ever make it to an industrial/technological level that would be capable of making such a dangerous toy to begin with."

To just ride around for 117 years and put all your bets on a perfectly timed interception of the weapon just as they took it out of the garage?

To put it another way, if the crew of the WWII U.S.S. Enterprise aircraft carrier ran into a conveniently located wormhole and were sent back to 1824, do you think they'd just roam around the Pacific until the morning of December 7th, 1941 and THEN say "Ok, now we're going to go kick the ass of the Japanese fleet?"

And, yes, I did see "The Final Countdown."

And, on another issue, I did think it sucked that Malcolm's "friends" bailed out on him instantly in the lunchroom when he clearly was hurting. I know that he's their superior officer and such things are unseemly, but...jeez.

ETA: just fixin' my math. I could have sworn I heard "170," but it was "117" for the years the Futureprise cruised."

At the beginning of the series, press material said that T'Pol was 68 years old. 68 + 3 [seasons] + 117 = 188, but her wrinkliness could be from P'anar syndrome... but probably not.

Also, we know that T'Pol "never fully recovers" - if she's stuck in The Expanse for another 117 years. Who knows what help she could get back on Vulcan, assuming she does escape The Expanse in the current timeline.

I wonder if they (and by they, I mean the crew of the CurrentPrise -- not to be confused with FuturePrise) downloaded the database from FuturePrise, as they would have been collecting information for over 117 years. They would conceivably have had time to do further investigation on all 78 (or more spheres) in the Expanse, info on new species, and any potential long-term alliances or locations of resources on worlds undiscovered as of yet by CurrentPrise.

And after reviewing the episode, the title "E²" or E-squared is quite appropriate. E-squared would imply Enterprise-squared or .... wait for it ... Enterprise multiplied by itself. Specifically, the crew of the Enterprise multiplied by itself, producing multiple generations.

As for Karyn Archer looking a bit like Hoshi -- she was 3 generations removed from CQ, combining a mixture of 8 different great-grandparents. In addition to CQ and CQ's hot Ikhari (spelling?) wife, she would be related to up to 6 other members of the crew (barring any family trees with circular loops or other alien spawn).

Actually that's what intrigued me the most about this episode, how the crew adapated. But, I can see why they would want to know. It's not like it happened or is going to happen, it's just one of endless possibilities.

I doubt it would be a relationship that he was thinking about. I think it's more along the lines of he sees the result of not interacting on a personal level with his crewmates, even if he is a senior officer. He's starting to chip away at the wall he's built around himself because I don't think he wants to end up alone. It would be nice to see some continuity along those lines as well, specifically with Trip and Malcolm. HoYay or not.

Anabanana, David Andrews really reminded me of Rance Howard, patriarch of the Howard clan, who played Sheridan's dad on B5. But that's probably not what you were thinking.

I think either Lorian was secretly Archer and T'Pol's kid (seriously, didja get a load of the furrow on that guy?) or as Jeebus mentioned above, Archer took responsibility for being a father figure after Trip's death. Which would explain why Lorian was such an ass.


In my version of the show, Mayweather is totally the father of Hoshi's kids, but knowing she doesn't want to know, he made up his MACO marriage. Because in my version of the show, we've spent enough time with him to know he's sensitive like that.


Papier-mâché on a wire armature? Tissue on coat hangers for leaves. Just guessing.

Add me to the list of those who are annoyed at the implication that T'Pol's going to be embracing her emo-Snsnsnnnnnnnnxxxxxxxxx! Wha-? Sorry, just started thinking of how Bermaga will flesh out those dramatic possibilities and, well, nature took its course.


Must...stop...giggling....Need...air....[THUD]

I'm OK! [giggle]

Yeah, loved the 'Columbia' detail. I would've loved it even more if it was named Challenger, though.

Totally agreed on Hoshi and Mayweather being a bit jerky about it... I mean it was akward, but leaving Reed by himself just sucked the big one. I was almost embarassed by those two just leaving Reed there. Reed also looked sad.

Last but not least, yeah, it would've made more sense to either talk to the Xindi or stopped them while developing the weapon. 117 years to plan and you still miss the big dance number??? C'mon!!

Plus, even though at that point only 30% are female, Futureprise made alien friends, one would think the male/female ratio was fixed a few years afterwards.

Phlox must be like, the greatest doctor on that century, 'cause not only had developed something against Borg nanites, now he made Vulcans and Humans compatible... give that Denobulan a Trek Nobel prize!

Was it just me or did I detected some jealousy coming from the Archer's furrow when he finds out Lorian is T'pol and Trip's spawn??. Just me? OK.

Ooh, I hadn't thought of it that way. Nice continuity from the episode with Hoshi trying to find Malcolm's favorite food. He really hasn't bonded with much of the crew, has he? I do hope the threads started in this episode aren't dropped. It would be nice to see Mayweather trying to see more of his alternate future/past wife, along with the Trip/T'Pol relationship (which I am actually starting to enjoy).