Hot...damn! This one had everything, and it was all good. Well, nothing about Cutler, but I think we had given up on that. Phlox's little talk with Trip was especially good.

Hmmm...what else? Another Phlox point I liked was how he came when the crewman was injured, after joking to T'Pol he wouldn't. Of course he'd come; it just threw that previous joke into a new light, like even Phlox needs to vent- or force some levity.

And we finally got explicit mention of how humans may just be a little more developed emotionally than Vulcans. We've talked about that here, and it was good to see it acknowledged.

A couple of points: Two days, and no one even washes their faces, or combs their hair? It seemed a bit forced.

Degra couldn't have knocked out communications either? I suppose not, or they could have repaired it.

Finally- is Degra on the Council? I didn't think so, but the arboreal seemed to treat him that way.

Aw man.......

They did it again. The bastards did it again. I was weeping straight from about the moment Trip kicked those power cells , to the fadeout on Elizabeth's picture. I think this may be up there with Twilight and Similitude.

To get the non-sad part of the ep out of the way:

I've really started to like Randy Oglesby. He and Bakula have a great chemistry, and I think his journey this season has been pretty believable. And dangit, that last scene was pretty touching; Archer finally has a real ally.

Me watching the plasma fire: "Ooooooooh, fire pretty."
And even though we knew Malcolm wasn't going to die, that was some pretty nicely done suspense there.

I like that somewhere between plasma fire and attacking Reptilians, they seemed to be able to take a shower.

Trip, and the emotional payoff we've been waiting for since "The Expanse" : There are no words. Connor produced gold, again. He went from emotionally numb in the mess hall, to snapping at Seth McFarlane, to doing the usual Starfleet "I will automatically gainsay anything the doctor says", to yelling at Degra, and finally to that scene in the hallway, and the final letter to the Taylors. And all of it believable *Sniff*

48 hours without sleep? Yikes. (Especially when you consider what he's been doing with those hours.) And Phlox did have a good point about not being a very useful engineer when you're conked out from exhaustion.

I can get through T'Pol being all trembly and weepy. But, like watching strong, feisty Nurse Edna on Everwood cry, seeing a strong, funny, usually so together guy like Trip cry just does me in. Especially the way he just so gradually fell apart. Some one said on another board that his line about "She was probably heading to her station" was basically "He stayed at his post- when the trainees ran" all over again, and I agree, and it makes it all the sadder. And damnit, waiting 9 months to deal with this stuff ( even given the circumstances) is not at all healthy.

Great, great ep. Keep it up guys.

I was thinking the same thing -- only I thought it was better than Twighlight and Similitude. Same quality, but still an arc episode. They haven't managed to do that before.

I loved ALL the stuff with Trip. It was all believeable -- that he bottled up his grief for 9 months, that it finally came out when people close to him died, that he would stay up for 2 days to try to fix the ship instead of dealing with his grief.

And everything with T'Pol is finally really explained, and I actually buy all of it! I was a little skeptical when the effects from the initial Trellium exposure were supposed to be temporary, when it clearly caused serious permanent damage to the other Vulcans. And it's been established well before now that Vulcans used to be an extremely emotional species. They had to learn to suppress their emotions to prevent from destroying themselves. And T'Pol's breakdown now makes a lot of sense to me.

If nothing else, I think they had the best previously ever.

I am, as I have said before, from Florida, and during those scenes with Trip and Degra, I thought to myself, "Hope the Xindi missed my house (but hit the local UPN affiliate for pre-empting last week!)

Wish they had developed the whole May-insert-yer-own-name-here and Hoshi, though.

I am such a mush-ball. I was crying way before the end. When Trip was talking to Crewman Taylor, got me first thing. And then the scene with T'Pol. Yes, I am such a mush-ball.

"The captain's waiting."
"I'm well aware of that." Cracked me up. I love me some Phlox.

During the scene where Degra was giving the coordinates to council, I was telling him, "Go ahead, give him a kiss. You know you want to."

I did not expect Degra to destroy the Reptilian ship. Because you can explain firing on them, but you can't quite explain destroying them.

And Degra's reactions to Trip, great acting on both sides.

Alright, great episode. Only 4 more! And I HATE UPN promo monkeys.

Wonder what Sara M will think of it?

Oh dear, I nearly forgot the one funny line Trip got amidst the emotional turmoil:

*Spatial anomalies rock the ship*
Trip(over the intercom): "This is really not the best time."

During Trip and Malcom's trip on the hull, I couldn't help but wonder- where was Hayes?

Trip's line at the end of his negotiation with Phlox over how many hours of sleep he has to get:

"And remind me never to buy a car from you."

Hee. I don't know if they still drive cars in the 22nd century, but great line.

Maybe I'm just a big ol' grouch, but I disliked Trip's letter at the end. It was all I, I, I, me, my feelings. This is supposed to be a letter to people whose daughter has been killed -- self-analysis is all well and good, but save it for the personal journal or something, huh?

Other than that, okay episode that mostly just advanced the uberplot in workmanlike fashion.

My thought upon hearing the car line-

Well, that means that they've still cars in the time of NX-01.

I caught the last thirty minutes--I'm going to wait till Saturday to make more substantive comments. However, I loved it. Trip stole the show.

Bless you, ENT, for not "sweeping death under the rug" which unfortunately was the case with some other Trek series. A very good and emotional episode.

I gotta say it -- I *loved* it when Archer and Trip argued. The acting was top notch.

I liked this episode, but I think they have totally ruined T'Pol. Right from the beginning of the series I had her pegged as the worst Vulcan ever -- and the writers must have agreed because they've basically turned her into a human with funny ears.

Damn, Connor Trineer is good.

Immaf, I have just the opposite reaction about T'Pol. I'm not wild about the "addiction" plotline at all, but I think Blalock is doing a fantastic job with the material. I'm loving her portrayal of T'Pol as constantly on the edge of a breakdown--showing a lot of emotions juuuust under the surface, but never letting them actually come out. Who knew she'd turn out to be one of the best actors on the show?

Yeah, that's what I thought, too. It was kind of like 'Hey, sorry that your daughter's dead, but at least it helped me work through my sister's death.'

But, other than that and the fact that Archer bugged me as usual, this episode was very, very good. Connor Trineer was just amazing. Thought the scene at the end with Trip and T'Pol was great. I am pro-T/T and I would rather see scenes like that of real closeness and friendship than all the blatently 'sexy' neuropressure, decon and dream shower scenes.

Phlox rocked as usual and Malcolm got to do something important.

As for Archer, every episode I find myself liking this character less and less. Once again he demonstrates the things I dislike the most. He paces constantly and spits out every other sentence. He barely listens to Trip's cautionary mention that they may be walking into a trap before growling "I've made my decision" and then snaps at Trip over writing the letter. Trip got carried away when he was ranting at Degra, but Archer should have been sensitive to the fact that Trip would not react well to working with the creator of the weapon that killed his sister. Archer continually treats aliens better than his own crew. He's done it with Shran and now he's doing it with Degra. Yes, he's trying to get Degra's help but he has made it pretty clear that he trusts Degra and considers him a friend now. I was in the military and I know that I would not have wanted to be under the command of such a self-involved jackass and I just find it inconceivable that the members of his crew would be immensely loyal to him as the members of Enterprise are supposed to be to Archer.

T'Pol was a lot more likable this week. Jolene Blalock impresses me more and more all the time. Especially considering what they ask of her ... shower scenes and breakdowns, yadda yadda yadda...

Phlox was simply wonderful. I would say, "as always" but no, he was even better than that. Loved his conversation with Trip.

I like Degra more every week, too -- he's believable and sympathetic. And there's just something about him, dangit.

Noble Malcolm, staying and doing his job (and showing a trace amount of irritation with Trip -- "Just do your job so I can do mine!") despite the danger.

And Trip. Wow. His blowups at Degra, and his breakdown with T'Pol had me drop-jawed. Finally, he deals with Lizzie's death. I was in tears, too -- 'y'all were not alone.

Damn, we've got some good actors on this show, don't we?

Visiting his apartment in Chicago. Man that guy has one hell of a commute. :0)

Great episode. I actually got pretty obsorbed in the plot which doesn't usually happen for me with Enterprise episodes. Connor Trinneer was awesome. He's fast becoming my favorite actor on the show. T'Pol was a whole lot less annoying for me in this episode and I'm actually becoming used to the idea of an emotional Vulcan. All you Trip/T'Pol shippers were probably sqeeeing your little heads off during Trips emotional breakdown. While I'm not quite aboard yet I will admit I am a little intrested in seeing what they would be like as a couple.

The only really bad part of this episode was the CGI plasma fire effects. Not so much the fire itself because that looked the way it should (does that make sense?), but the warp nacelle in the background and the fake glow around Reed and Trip. It looked like CGI and it took me out of the fantasy for a moment.

As someone with a baby sister...I bawled when he did. My goodness.

I loved it. I'm sure I'll be more coherent later, but I just really enjoyed the whole thing. Loved Trip, loved Malcolm (Yay! Malcolm!), didn't hate T'Pol, adored Phlox, actually said out loud, "Archer is hot even when he's dirty", and was distracted enough by Hoshi's hair to remember that she was there. All good.

Except...how are all the dead folks accounted for when we clearly saw about three of them blow out of the ship (a scene replayed in the previouslys, no less)? The word choice there was weird.

Yeah, I keep waiting for them to address that -- just a remark about witnesses to bodies flying out or something. Then again, that may just be my OCD talking. :)



Indeed. Yum. Scruffy Mussed-up Malcolm, no less.

Well, except for dealing with the very real death of one of their actors of course.

Hm, thoughts. I never really get to post these! I thought it was a well-delivered episode. I don't think it was better than "Twilight" by a long shot, though.

I just love Phlox so much -- there's nothing that man can't do. Kudos to Trinneer, he was excellent and I'm so glad that his character got emotional release. Too bad Quantum still hasn't redeemed himself in my eyes by actually acting like a friend. I don't fault him for protecting Degra's sensibilities but I do fault him for not finding Trip later and having a heart-to-heart considering that it was so obvious Trip was falling apart.

With the offhand comments, at least we know Rostov's still alive.

Regardless of how well the character might be played, I'm still not behind an emotional T'Pol. I think Bermaga were using Trellium when they thought that was a good idea.

I thought showing a shot of a guy in a neckbrace in the opening of Quantum's cheese was a nice touch.

I think it's cool that all the Xindi -- I'm not sure about the Bug House or Aquamen, though -- have the same sort of slash on either side of their face. Right near their cheekbones.

And finally: Degra's head/hairline looks like a ploughed field.

I actually thought it was good letter. Not the typical "We regret to inform you.." type of letters. Starfleet already sent one of those. Trip wanted to make his letter more personal, and tell her family how her presence made an impression on him. He wanted to tell them that their daughter wasn't just another engineer, but was someone who made connections with the people she worked with, and made friends with.

I think her family would appreciate hearing that.

I liked his letter too. It was personal. When a loved one dies, you want to hear nice things about them -- how they affected the lives of other people, that other people thought they were important and special too. Trip saying that she was his friend and that she affected his life -- I think they'd want to hear that.

When Reed seethed, "Reptilians", all I could hear in my head was, "Snakes... why did it have to be... snakes????"

I haven't given up on it yet. Shame on Enterprise if Six Feet Under gets around to it first though, once SFU's fourth season begins in June. I wonder if Berman & company had any plans to use Kellie Waymire in future episodes. Was it her healthy that prevented her from showing up in Season 2? She only had three appearances total.

From the unofficial Kellie Waymire page:

"...according to Trekweb, in this month's issue of Star Trek Communicator, Rick Berman responds to questions of her passing, saying the staff is discussing ways to honor her."

This would've been a perfect time. "The Forgotten"??? I mean, come on. She could've been one of those 18 dead crew members. At the very least, it would've been episode-appropriate to have an "In Memory Of..." at the very end.

I thought this was a pretty good arc episode that nicely showcased Connor Trinneer, but I wouldn't put it up on a pedestal with "Twilight", "Similitude", "Dead Stop", and the like (well, actually, sadly, I think that covers just about all of my much-loved Enterprise eps). And while I found Trinneer's sob scene effective and affecting, it didn't make me cry uncontrollably two or three times the way "Similitude" did.

I want T'Pol to be able to show emotion. How can anyone actually want to watch Vulcans take up air time, how can you really connect to these characters, if you don't see them react and care about things the way every other sentient being portrayed in the series does? I find it really hard to give a damn about characters like Spock and Tuvok, but then I didn't grow up on the original series and I've only seen about a dozen episodes combined of it and Voyager. Are Vulcans consistently shown to be a species that're seen by themselves and by other species as complete and evolved? 'Cause I have trouble understanding how life could be worth living without emotions (or with suppressed emotions, which seems to be stressed more and more on Enterprise and makes a lot more sense than saying they have no emotions or don't feel them. Obviously they would still feel them, even with years of practiced suppression). Every time T'Pol has shown signs of her feelings boiling beneath the surface (I mean the times when the writers haven't made her into a maniacal, stressed out freak), and even when she's been messed with and forced to confront certain aspects of herself (that mind meld rape episode was stupid, but Jolene Blalock got a lot of good moments), I find that it's easier to like T'Pol. You want her to break free of her restraints and enjoy life. I know it feels like a retread of Data (I don't really feel that, even though TNG was my main Trek series, what I grew up on, and can remember it best) or 7 Of 9 (I can see that better, though I think Blalock is a lot better than Jeri Ryan), but I don't care. I want this character to be compelling. If I could meet the writers, I'd encourage them to go ahead and kill franchise canon if that's what they gotta do to make some of these dry characters more worth my time.

Hot damn ... actually an Enterprise episode with good writing and good acting.
The best TV shows nowadays seem to focus on great characters and this ep finally displayed a little of that.
I believed that Degra would switch sides more easily than his proof-seeking compatriot, partially because Degra feels guilt for creating the weapon.
Goes to show they don't need tons of action and time travel to make a good hour (and then I saw the promo for next week's ep. Will they ever learn?)

With all due respect, you may want that, but I don't.

The rest of my response belongs in the Vulcan thread, and I'll move it over there.

Y'know, Malcolm should just STAY INSIDE THE SHIP!! Once he gets an EV Suit on he gets screwed. First he gets the leg of a bomb through his thigh, and now he's almost deep-fried!

Trip: "We'll need to access it from outside the ship....but I'll need help."

Malcolm: "Uh....how bout sending Hoshi? She looks bored."

I can't believe I'm semi-defending dumb-ass on this one, but I think Quantum had him write the letter not because Trip was her CO, but because he hoped that it might lead him to some emotional release. So he was trying to help . . . but at the same time he knows the DeathBall is about to ship off in like 3 days and his alliance is tied together by very thin thread, so he's probably a little stressed. (Not to say a good captain couldn't have handled it better).

Connor was awesome. Why do they have to have his sister look like the girl George Costanza on Seinfeld dated who he was trying to convince to have a nose job?

Buwhaha; Malcolm's the red shirt of EVAs. (Er, well, red-pinstripe, anyway.)

As to someone's earlier post; I don't think Degra's on the council per se, but I do think he's a very high ranking Xindi, enough so that he could order Archer's release in "Damage".

Perhaps I missed it, but did Degra say that Archer would have to sway the entire Council to stop the weapon, or just get a majority vote?

The Arboreals and Humanoid Xindi will probably side with Archer, one would suspect the Aquatics would as well (since they helped engineer his release in "Damage"). I think his main convincing is going to be the Insectoids and Reptilians (especially since part of his evidence is their duplicity with the bio-weapon!)

BTW; Archer mentioned to Degra that "we're destined to form an alliance". The Xindi aren't founding members of the Federation (or, weren't before all this timeline shananigans), but I would think that after this ordeal, the Xindi would be an early member... after all, joining the Federation sure would go a long way to ensuring that misunderstandings like this don't happen again.

I can't put into words how much I enjoyed this episode. While I didn't cry, I was very moved by Trip's emotional release.

About the letter: Sometimes it may be easier to relate to a person's loss by comparing it to a loss you may have suffered. I don't think it was particularly selfish of Trip to use his feelings about his sister's death to write a letter to his friend's parents. I just believe that it helped him to put both deaths proper perspective.

Degra? Starting to love him.

I don't think Hayes was as necessary in this episode as he would have been in a boarding party like in Damage. Hayes doesn't have to appear in all episodes, but why make his character at odds with Malcolm when in the instances where he would actually be taking Malcom's place, such as in a boarding party, there's not even a mention? And yes, I know, Steven Culp is a busy actor, but the question originally referred to the character. After all those deaths, Hayes could be one of them.

Why Malcolm offered to help on the hull sort of confused me, except out of all them, he's got the most experience,*snerk*. Mr. Toast looked at me when they were slowly making their way across the hull and said, "At least there's nothing to impale Malcolm this time."

I have to say I agree with the sentiment that Trip's letter, while sad, was a bit selfish. The parents are already upset enough, and to mention that he couldn't understand why someone so full of potential was gone and that he couldn't face it, I don't think that's very comforting. You can still talk about Taylor and not mention your personal travails.

And skye, I'm really starting to love Degra too. His inner-conflict is believable. And the actor does a great job with it.

A few more points:

keckler, all five species have the same groove on their faces. I read an interview where the makeup people pointed that out, and if you look hard enough, you see it. (Well, we haven't seen the Aquatics so much, but it's there too.)

Kris, Waymire was perfectly healthy (to all appearances) right before she died. Cutler was a biologist, right? They may not have planned to have her this season, as they may have gotten rid of the science crew on Earth in favor of more military.

When they said everyone was accounted for, I assumed they recovered the bodies with shuttlepods, which we saw flying around last week. (Although why Reed just sent the panel flying into space is beyond me. Maybe there wasn't time to bolt it down.)

One touch I liked- Degra asked the Reptilian commander if his crew would be safe, and the response made it clear they wouldn't be. I think that's one reason he blew up the ship- and gave Archer a reason that appealed to him more, perhaps to bolster an alliance.

As to complaints about Archer, perhaps this is meant as a "loneliest man on ship is the commander" comment? I'm not sure.

Degra said a majority of the council was needed.

Finally, I loved the shots of the nacelles behind them during the EVA.

That was cool! Actually the entire scene was.

Oh yeah, one more thing:
I agree with whoever said upthread that they can deal with the T/T'P aspect better with this kind of interaction. When I can see that they actually care about each other instead of just what we saw in Harbinger, I look forward to the relationship developing. Not that I'm a shipper or anything. Because I'm not. Really.

Personnel would be required to report to a particular station to be accounted for by their supervisors (much like, if there's a fire or other general evacuation in my building, all my staff must gather at a specific meeting place, where I check their names off on a list. If anybody's missing, and I know that they are in the office today, I notify security, and they send in the rescue heroes). At that point, there would be three missing, with a search on for trapped bio-signs. Enterprise is an enclosed vessel. Based on their last known location, it would be easy to determine that, with the hull breach and the corresponding "sudden loss of cabin pressure," those missing personnel were sucked out into space before the area they were in was sealed off. Here, "accounted for" means "missing and presumed dead." There is no chance that they are wandering around somewhere or have been taken prisoner.

I'll buy that. It just struck me as a weird way to express it. Thanks!

While the wooden deliveries are getting a little tiresome, I can see why he would be a little stiff and awkward with Degra and Mr. Three Toes. It's only been, what, three or four days since the "battle"? His original mission was to destroy the weapon and that's what the entire crew thought. Now, in the space of less than a week, suddenly they're trying to essentially negotiate a solution, not knowing if the weapon has been launched yet or could still be launched during these "talks". It would make most people tense, to say the least. But, tense is not stiff, which is what bothers me half the time.

However, Archer is a buttmunch considering he's had 9 frickin' months to be a friend to Trip. And Porthos.

And while I am not a T/T shipper, the relationship is being handled very well, partly because even if they do not remain in a romantic relationship, I can believe that they would still be very good friends.

Tight, good acting on this one... but the plot was too much of a setup for my taste, basically just a meeting and the review of the evidence. Also, they are setting up the unstable short-cut for the next episode so too many setups.

I thought we will see more Yoshi-Mayweather stuff... I'm starting to like those bits, makes the crew more 'human'.... but no such moment here.

So are we supposed to infer that the aquatics also agree with the other 2 Xindi species, then they already have a majority, shouldn't they? They have to deal with the insectoid/reptilian species, but it seemed to me this coalition between the humans and Xindis is already well under way.

Who was Seth McFarlane in this episode? The engineer that got butt-chewed by Trip?

Degra mentioned that Archer would have to convince the Aquatics to side with them for a majority so they must be undecided now.

Yup. I kinda missed the scene because I was running from putting laundry in during the short commercial break, but Mr. Toast got it right away.

I thought this ep was a bunch of random events cobbled together for no good reason.

CT's acting was excellent, but I just didn't get into his grief because it felt forced and contrived. I understand why he was mad at Degra (and why Quantum couldn't is simply beyond me - I seriously hate Archer) but the entire episode was just too maudlin. I agree that his letter to the dead crewman's family was selfish. I see why the letter helped him to get through his grief, but the letter wasn't supposed to be about his grief.

The point of the warp plasma scene was? To waste money on special effects?

Phlox rocks. That is all. JB, once again, has surpassed all of my expectations. I have to admit both she and CT were great in Trip's breakdown scene.

Overall, this ep was a disappointment.

I've kind of got the impression that, among the five Xindi, the Aquatics have the biggest sabre to rattle, but they don't actually rattle it that much, and none of the others can really guess which way they're going to go. But I've also gotten the sense that the Aquatics are pretty much what keep the Reptilians and Insectoids from completely walking over the Primates and Arboreals.

Word to the weird smudges. Last week we saw the sinks working! Maybe the plots of "Damage" and this one were originally integrated.

There was a feature in Star Trek Magazine about how the makeup people designed all the Xindi so they would share certain features like the slash. Also, Mr. Men's "plowed field" hair is reflected in the "curved quills" of the Reptilians. They all have the triangular ridged patch in the middle of their forehead.

Plasma fire pretty.

Quantum is such a prick. Trip hasn't had any sleep for 2 days, he's working nonstop to keep the ship together, and you want him to take the time to write a letter? Couldn't it wait until, I don't know, AFTER you've defused the SuperBomb?

Well, if you wait too long, and fail the mission, it's really an exercise in futility.

"I'm writing with good news and bad news. The bad news is, your daughter is dead. The good news is, you won't be mourning her very long."

I think is was to provide the opportunity to have Degra express a positive sentiment about a human and let Trip tweak at his conscience again.

The fact that Degra hung around on Enterprise while it was close to exploding was interesting as well. Why not undock your ship just in case?

I loved the episode. Phlox is the best ships's surgeon since McCoy. "I'm well aware of that," was right up there with "I'll eat when the crew eats."

And, danablue, this should probably be in the "You know your phasers" thread, but when I readmy first thought was "Correction, sir, that's blown out."

Watching a strung-out T'Pol staggering around, being told that she may have permanently damaged her Vulcan psyche, I kept wondering what else they are going to do to this poor woman. If this goes on another season, are we going to find her at some outpost turning tricks for trellium fixes?

I actually liked it quite a bit more than the last two episodes - great character development and acting. It is a pity this show isn't watched more -- this episode was so much better than last night's West Wing (for example). And I'm amazed at the progression of Trip's character from Season 1 -- when I was cringing every time his Cletus side came out. I think I watched the first two seasons without really enjoying them much (Archer leaves me cold), mostly out of a multi-decade Trek habit. But now I'm totally hooked into this season, thanks in large part to the change in writing of this character. And I loved the FX in the episode as well.

Is it just my o/c side that wondered why Archer left the bio-weapon on and closed the door?

I also like the Degra character -- the whole conflicted Oppenheimer thing -- but, (as I think someone else mentioned) I can't help thinking of the Doorman at the Emerald City in Oz every time I see his hair and costume (which is actually a little Reptilian.)

I'm not sure about that, but I'm glad you reminded me of that scene. While he was pushing the buttons and turning the canister, was I the only one saying, "For hate's sake I spit my last breath at theeee...."?

Well, only for a second, and then I remembered that CQ had said that Phlox had destroyed all but a sample and that was in stasis. So, I figured it was safe. But relock the door, sheesh.

When he went to unlock the door, I thought he was taking him to Daniel's quarters. And then I thought, wait, that can't be.



WOK and TMP was on last weekend on two different channels at the same time, and Mr. Toast kept switching back and forth. But, yes, I had a vague memory of that object.