Oh, dear. I'm going to be thinking about that Jeremy Irons movie with the same name.

I thought it was a great ep, but it sure was weird seeing the Enterprise playing the bad guy... Hopefully they will follow up with the Illyians sometime before the end of the season...

Jeez, I've been away far too long. What happened to the show? It's un-frellin'-recognizable... and not necessarily in a good way. Is there any point in me hoping that the consequences of Archer's actions will be followed up at all?

I didn't understand why the Xindi were so hot to return Archer to the ship after the attack, just to get him to rendezvous with them again.

However, I liked the ep. We finally got to see the edgy Archer that this show's needed all season. Of course, they still couldn't get him away from the moral quibbling. Sigh. All in all, I was quite pleased and intruiged about where they're going next.

::: me, applauding :::

I liked the dark slant to this episode. Everyone had screen time, some emotional scenes. And yeah, I soooooo want to nurse a battered and bruised Bakula. Please note I typed Bakula as opposed to Archer...but I like the arc with Archer's dark side, it's interesting to see how people evolve under extreme pressure. There will be eventually be fallout; what will happen when ENT returns home? Will Archer continue to show cracks?

On the production side, nice direction, good lighting and make-up. Kudos to the special effects crew -- the sight of Enterprise being held together with nothing more than chewing gum and wishful thinking struck a chord with me.

However, the UPN promo monkeys are alarming me -- I don't like hearing "Only six more episodes left!" in one promo (although another promo said "only six more episodes left to the season finale"). I swear to God, UPN, if you cancel ENT now that I've grown to like these characters and care about what happens to them, I will unload a Serious. Can. Of. Whup-Ass.

edited because "unlold" is not a word

Color me impressed. Archer & co. faced with a dilemma that didn't tidy everything up nicely. On any other trek show (especially Voyager--but with DS9 in its Dominion War Arc being an exception) something would have happened that would allow the captain and crew off the hook at the last minute. And I was expecting something that would keep Archer from actually deciding to take what he needed by force. And by golly he actually followed through with an actual attack. I wasn't able to watch the ep in its entirety, but I'm wondering if this will come back to haunt the Enterprise and crew if the-aliens-of-the-week somehow decide to aid the Xindi in some way. And is there anyone else besides me who thinks that the being in the chamber with the council members was actually "future guy"--or should I say "future woman".

... must... avoid... thread... til... saturday...

I liked the episode, but I didn't agree with Archer's decision. Although this is following the edgier theme they are promoting, he did have another choice. Make them an offer they couldn't refuse. Either borrow the warp coil or have them warp him to the meeting point. Why make enemies when you already have one that is pretty darn nasty.

My favorite scene was with Archer and Phlox when he asked Phlox if he had ever done anything unethical. The lighting, the sound and the lack of music were fantastic.

SHE was a huge disappointment. My eyes were stuck to the roof of my skull for the majority of that scene.

Regarding the T'Pol plot...let me sleep on it so my venom doesn't burn the computer. Waste of time. And ruining the character in my opinion. Why didn't anyone else notice how wacked out she was? Not only was Archer thickheaded and callous, but the whole damn crew. Just.Can't.Stand.It. And why no mention of her illness? Hmmmm? How is that affecting her? It would have made a lot more sense and kept the integrity of the character. Wait, sleep on it. Breathe in, breathe out.

And the alien warp coil looked like a kerosene heater.

While the less said about the T'Pointy plot line the better, the episode was pretty good overall.



I don't think they could warp the entire ship to the meeting place and they would need a warp core anyway, to stop the weapon if it is launched. And borrow the warp core? Riiiight - I could just see how that would go.

Archer: We need to borrow your warp core.
Alien: How about you borrow my ass, instead?
Archer: (to communicator) Malcom, lock onto his ass and prepare to fire!

This one fell flat for me. Maybe it was the six (or was it seven) weeks between new episodes, but I couldn't get into this one. Plus, a couple of plot points bugged me.

For one thing, I think it would have been more interesting to leave Archer captive for a while longer and have the others try to get things together on the ship without him. But no, Archer is special-delivered back to the ship a few minutes into the episode.

I wasn't at all interested in Archer's 'big moral dilemma' of whether or not to attack the ship for their warp coil (or was it core?) because I just don't find it plausible that warp coils are pretty much a one size fits all kind of thing. A carburator for one car doesn't fit in every other car, so is it really likely that Enterprise can run into a species they have never met before and Trip can easily disconnect their warp coil and just pop it into Enterprise's engine? Yes, Trip's supposed to be an engineering genius and no doubt could modify an alien warp coil to work, but it shouldn't be as easy as it was shown to be here with 'a few tweaks' and it fit right in.

I'm also getting tired of seeing various members of the Xindi council yelling at each other.

Of course, the T'Pol addiction storyline is awful and I'm not even going to comment on it. I'm just going to ignore it until it's over.

I have no words to describe how much I despise the T'Pol TD addiction storyline. What a cheap way to have her explore her emotions, what a terrible thing to do to a terrific character.

And what about her relationship with Trip, are we suppose to believe that it's simply a side affect of her being a TD whore.

Overall, I thought this was an average episode. Some very nice visuals and descent acting, but nothing spectacular. I did enjoy the scenes between Phlox and T'Pol, and the brief scene between Hoshi and Travis.

Here's two things from the show that stick in my mind

First, showergirl. Is it just me or did she remind anyone else of another time travelling trek woman with a low cut top with pointy accents? How about looking here.

Second, did anyone else think that the Illyan ship seemed a little too convienient? Like maybe it was the primate Xindi testing Archer to see if humanity was really as ruthless as the lizards thought? Give the man an impossible goal and his only option to violate his own morality and see what he does.

Meh+ episode, I agree that it was too long since the other piece of the ep to make it very dramatic in my mind.

He didn't consider stealing until after he got the coordinates from Degra. I don't remember any mention of the weapon. (It's doubtful that's what the coordinates are because it would be heavily guarded still) If all he needed was to get to a rendezvous, then hitching a ride or borrowing a coil seems a little less drastic than stealing. Not to mention less dangerous especially since quite a few of the crew has been lost.

And is it coil or core? That's a big difference. Can you even take someone's warp core and install it on a completely different ship? I thought he said coil which I thought was a component of the warp core.

I guess that's why that don't make me captain. Shrug.

There should be a drinking game for this episode--every time someone says damage, you drink.

I figured the "good" Xindi wanted to talk to Archer again without the Reptilians and Insectoids around, so they act like they're letting him go but plan to meet up later.

I hope we hear about the warp-less aliens again. I don't want another episode wasted on them. Instead, I'd just like the Enterprise crew to find out that they condemned the aliens to death, e.g. someone else attacks the ship and kills the crew.

The damaged Enterprise was cool but I wish they had the budget to do a loss of gravity as in STVI.

Why is T'Pol becoming the Deanna Troi of Enterprise? God. She's a walking Lifetime-Television-for-Women-and-Gay Men cliche. How many times has she been victimized over the past three seasons?

On a VERY SPECIAL Enterprise: T'Pol learns learns a valuable lesson after she drinks too much and then goes joyriding in a shuttlepod--with disastrous results!

Ahem. Outside of the utterly annoying T'Pol on Space Crack subplot, the rest of the episode was intriguing. So the crew of the Enterprise are the bad guys--they better not let this one drop.

And that T'Pol S&M Wet Dream? Oh, dear. I wonder how keckler's gonna handle that scene!

Oh, WORD!

I absolutely loved this ep except for the complete and utter destruction of T'Pol's character. But other than that, perfect! What pisses me off the most about T'Pol's addiction is that it completely obviates any progress she made with her feelings independent of the trellium. UGH!! Three years of character development gone for a stupid plotpoint.

I also thought of the Borg Queen when I saw the female trannie, Gist. It looked like she was wearing the same uniform as the Borg Queen with a different pattern. And the shape of the trannie's head looked exactly the same of the Queen's, except the exterior makeup was different.

I liked the warp coil plot, especially since it involved Casey Biggs (Damar from DS9). I don't think it would have made much sense for Archer to ask for a ride because the Illyians would probably have turned them down. Archer had already stated he was in a desperate situation, so why would Biggs allow the crew to board his ship? Also, Enterprise needs to be able to move around freely as the situation develops.

Re: The T'Pol plotline, I am so very disappointed. From the spoilers I'd read, I thought her addiction would have come about because she was trying to acclimate herself so that Archer could line the ship with it, possibly saving the rest of the crew.

She was dinking around with it to experience emotion?? Oh well, why the hell not, this last year has been the perfect time for recreational drug use and finding oneself.

About Enterprise being the bad guys, wow. Never thought I'd see that. I too hope they revisit this; I'd like to see them attempt to go back and rescue them somehow ... and dare I hope that they're going somewhere truly interesting with this "Dark Archer" storyline?

On the purely shallow side, not nearly enough Malcolm.

ETA: Maybe T'Pol did say something about acclimating herself for the above reason? My friend was talking through that scene and I may have missed something. Please tell me I did?

This episode made me really uncomfortable...and I liked it!

One moment in snark:
Archer tries to get some Aquatic Xindi attention.
Me: Ohhh, don't tap on the glass. They hate that.
Aquatic Xindi gas Archer
Me: Told ya.


Totally agree, Dane. When I read about it on the spoiler thread, I was really hoping she had started taking it in an attempt to build up an immunity so as to allow lining of the hull. But no. That would have been too logical. Can't have that.

Still. Good stuff. frenchtoast is right. The Archer/Phlox scene was by far the best of the ep.

I HATE you! This is exactly what we said! Regardless, it's in the recap.



Hm, I don't believe they were actually called that in this ep, were they?

Yeah, the T'Pol stuff was a little off. But otherwise, I thought it was great. Not quite the episode I expected after "Azati Prime" (I, too, thought it would be interesting to have Archer off the ship for a couple episodes). But this works, too. And the Mayweather/Hoshi scene was great, brief as it was. Hey, characters! I remember those.

I really loved Trip's line "You did the right thing". I mean, I don't think Archer did the right thing, but I see why Trip would, and it's good to see someone back him up.

While it would be interesting if Damar and his crew get killed, honestly I sort of hope Archer gets a chance to save them, give them back their warp coil and fresh crate of oranges, apologize and make it up to them.


I still like it, but I was starting to get tired of them overemphasizing all the pronouns: "We will go back to our ship and then you will buy us a round of drinks, and when the waitress comes we will be sure to tip her."

This is going to make me giggle endlessly for the rest of the night.

Hmm....the ep wasn't so much an end ( or event) in and of itself, but instead to push the storyline along towards an overall end. And I think it did its job pretty well, along with having some pretty good moments.

-Hurrah for difficult moral decisons that have no easy out. I was so worried that the writers were going to provide some deus ex machina thing so the hard choice could be avoided. That they didn't shows me how much the show has grown.

And, it provided that great scene where the rest of the senior staff is planning the raid, but it's so clear from their body language, everything, how uncomfortable they are with it.

-Eeeee! Standalone Hoshi/Travis scene! And it's good!

- I too find the T'Pol TD storyline meh; however, I am thankful that it gave us an opportunity for shirtless Connor Trinneer. (I am a shallow, shallow woman.)

"We've had our disagreements in the past; this is the first time you've taken it out on my desk."
Oh , all right, hee.

And may I say, I thought the conduit exploding during the meeting was sorta funny, and a nice touch of reality.

Good , solid ep; makes me optimistic for next week.

Yes, I liked this very much. In TOS, TNG, and VOY the writers would've provided Archer with an "out" so he could retain his moral ground. Poor Damar.

The less said about T'Pol sniffing glue (isn't it basically the analogy?), the better.


Water all over keyboard. Post of the night.

Yes! I loved that moment. Especially the way they all stand right back up and resume their conversation as if nothing happened.

Someone get the set decorators and lighting folks some Emmys, because they must have been working overtime on this one.

This was the episode that was being filmed when I was on the set. (We watched them do the scene in the corridor where they throw the stun grenade).



Really. It's just a pity the viewers didn't get a chance to see the sets the way we saw them; even in areas that didn't appear in this episode, the attention to detail (blown out monitors, etc.) was awesome. Just awesome.

I noticed that, too, and spent that entire scene focusing on figuring out what it was that reminded me of her. The pointy parts of the skin-hugging but armor-like uniform coming up towards her neck, and the general make-up texture... But I suppose we already know that ST recycles the looks of their humanoid aliens over and over again.

I enjoyed this episode somewhat, but as zooropa pointed out, six or seven weeks between episodes destroys the mood a bit.



Word.

I just have a hard time dealing with Archer. I imagine this has been discussed on these boards many a times (this is my first post for this show), but he's just no Jean-Luc. So while perhaps I was *supposed* to be feeling bad about his decision about stealing the warp core... well, I just kept thinking, stop yer whinin', Furrow-brow.

I'm with you, cleo.

Although many people have posted they like "Dark Archer", I am having a hard time with it. (Which makes ENT even better, IMO) It doesn't seem possible that he could be the lynchpin of the creation of the Federation. Upon further reflection, it is worthwhile to have him slip occasionally if only strip him of his sanctimony. Plus, he would be a little more forgiving and understanding.



Loved that too, especially Malcolm's initial reaction.

Question: Where is Hayes? Why wasn't he part of the boarding party? Is he dead/missing? Oh, and why did Parson's have blood on her neck?

Is there room in the shallow end for me? :-0

I wasn't able to catch a lot of it (lot of storms in my area, had to make sure one wasn't heading for my house), but my first thought about the whole T'Pol situation was "Oh, just great, another plot where the woman was weak and got addicted." I wondered if they watched Season Six Buffy?

There was a storyline with T'Pol? Addicted? I must have erased it from my memory.

Well, except for the fact that they got showered with rocks. I mean, it's not the first time that's happened over the course of the franchise, but here it seemed a little ridiculuous. Rocks? Oy.

Something that just floated by for me: T'Pol says the Xindi encoded a stardate in the message. A stardate? Shouldn't Archer ask what those are, seeing as... they don't use stardates?

[The less said about T'Pol sniffing glue (isn't it basically the analogy?), the better.]

I can't think about that without thinking of the classic Lloyd Bridges line from Airplane, "Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue."

I generally liked the episode, but after 6 weeks of reruns, an hour of Malcolm and some Uh-Ohs dancing the can-can would have seemed like a good episode to me. Must learn to temper my enthusiasm.

I had the same issues as many of you so far.

1 - That the warp coil is a universally compatible device. And that one of the most important components of your engine only take 10 minutes to uninstall? While I am at it, let me run out to the parking lot and steal the brakes off an American sportscar to put on my Japanese SUV.

2 - Whats with the revolving batch of Uh-Ohs anyway. Where were Hayes and Daniel Dae Kim and Corporal Funbags??

3 - I think they ruined the opportunity to do something good with the T'Pol addiction deal. I was convinced (as were others in this fine forum) it was going to be something along the lines that she was trying to acclimate herself to the Trellium so the crew could eventually equip the ship with it. Why does she need to shoot herself up with smack just to feel emotion? Its been long established that Vulcans have feelings, just choose to supress them. So, why not just CHOOSE NOT TO! Grrr. And while I'm ripping on her, wouldn't you think a more functional choice of clothing might have been appropriate given the circumstances? I am a member of the T'Dinners fan club, but how about a jumpsuit with some pockets for repair tools and stuff.

4 - I would love if the warp coil aliens return later or if it turns out Enterprise needs their help to do some mission. I think I would rather that than just having them pissy.

5 - Archer was a dick to Porthos. Where's the love (or at least cheese) for that pooch??

6 - The damage to the ship was great. Really gave you a feel that the place was all busted up and will take more than just a band-aid to fix.

7 - Whats up with the transporters? Since when did they become realiable for people, much less in an unideal situation? And they broke Trek canon in that the transporter is always the first thing to break, and always rebreaks as soon as the away team is away.

8 - I love the scene when T'Pol is going on about how Archer can't just go on rationalizing these decisions and how it will make them as bad as the enemy. (as she then goes on to rationalize her own problem.) The broken palm pilot on the desk was a great bit. Definitely my favorite scene of the episode.

Can't wait to see how their backyard rendezvous with Team Xindi goes next week. Also interested to see if Archer continues down his path to the dark side. I'm all for him getting one of those shiny red lightsabers and force choking Snake Eyes!!

Thank you! Mr. thinga and I actually stopped the tape to laugh at that point. He said, "Where the hell did those rocks come from?" I said, "Wait, so the Enterprise is made of concrete?!" It was a nice little scene, but rocks?!

The T'Pol storyline pissed me off completely. So stupid. As she was in the cargo hold, breathing heavily and petting the box of TD, I groaned and said, "Oh my god, get her some bottled water. This is worse than Willow!"

However, aside from the T'Pol storyline (and the less said about the shower scene, the better), I thought it was a good episode. I liked the Dark Archer stuff. I, too, would have preferred to see the crew dealing with his absence for longer, but if him being back means we get moral dilemmas and shaky ethics, then that's fine.

I thought that was actually some type of insulation. ( One would think they still use it.)



I loved Malcolm's line about that: "I don't know what's holding her together, but thank God something is."

I'd kinda like to find out why T'Pol went to such lengths to experience emotions. I don't remember her ever expressing any such desire before; quit the contrary, in fact.

I feel the same way. I continue to watch this show because of the other characters and I try to tolerate Archer, but my dislike for him has really grown over the last several episodes. I am tired of his continuing moral dilemmas. I am tired of his belligerent attitude toward his senior officers. He never asks for their opinions or listens when they attempt to give him helpful advice. He treats aliens like Shran better than he treats any member of his own crew. I am tired of him always being right in the end. I am tired of him being the hero.

In this episode they managed to hit just about every one of my reasons for disliking Archer: He had the moral dilemma of attacking the other ship; he snapped at his officers and ignored their advice on possible alternatives to the attack; he saved the female MACO who was shot during the raid. I really doubt there will be any repercussions whatsoever for any of his actions. After all, he is the mighty, all-knowing Captain Archer.

Ha! How did I know you would feel that way, thinga?

Call me crazy, but I actually didn't mind the crackhead storyline. I think T'Pol's timing stinks, but I'm curious to see how it plays out. I'm also glad that it's staying between her and Phlox (who was awesome as usual in this ep). I couldn't deal with The Quantum Soapbox Speech on Drug Addiction right now.

My favorite line of the night was from T'Pol: "My interactions with the crew improved." Ain't that an understatement?

Hee, you know me too well, skye! I really want to like T'Pol, but turning her into the sexpot-who-gets-victimized-every-week is pissing me off. And shirtless CT is nice, but something about those supposedly sexy scenes with T'Pol just squicks me out.

Very good indeed. I found myself actually annoyed and worried about Archer's actions- which is what I should be, right? (zooropa- what was wrong with saving the MACO?)

The rocks! I was about to post on those, but y'all beat me to it.

T'Pol and emotions...hmm. She's certainly been through a lot in three years; I can certainly see how she might think a fresh course would be able to help, or was called for. As for timing, well, yeah, it sucks, but that's life.

One thing I didn't get was Phlox's promise of confidentiality. Doctor, this is a military vessel in the middle of a war. The First Officer does not have an addiction problem without the CO finding out about it.

Maybe I'm morbid, but I wonder about bodies. Did they retrieve the ones that flew into space? After all, there seemed to be less "unaccounted" for than flew out. Or maybe not.

Finally, did SphereWoman's hologram walk through the table? I think it did. Cool. At least we know they're not Suliban, though- it was just that one guy with his skin issues.

I liked Archer better when he was being tortured -- at least he looked them in the eye when he talked to them. Once he was back on the ship with his friends, he went back to the habit of talking to them with his back turned. I keep waiting for one of them to slap him in the head and say "look at me when you're talking, idiot!"

His "moral dilemma" just adds to my Archer hate. A bigger man would have figured out a better way to deal with the problem. Do they know that this guy is wrong for the part, and want to make us dislike him so much that we will not object when they drop him next season (if there is one) in favor of Captain Trip?

T'Pol on drugs -- they just keep thinking of more things to screw up the Vulcan storyline. If this show aired before TOS, no one would be able to understand where Spock was coming from.

Lastly, they are doing pretty good repairing a ship in deep space that looked like swiss cheese after the attack. Do they just have tons of spare sheet metal lying around?

Ordinarily I would agree, but I see this differently because she got herself into this one and now she has to cope with the consequences of her own actions.

Goldfishgirl Yes I think you're right. That was some kind of foam insulation that was falling. I've worked with that stuff before, and I know when that stuff gets very hot, it tends melt and mold itself into a substance that looks like rock.



Yes but what other possible alternatives did Archer have? Negotiation? Those aliens were not going to give them their warp coil no matter what Archer offered them.

I will agree with the part about snapping at his officers. But keep in mind that Archer was doing something he did not want to do. That often makes him very agitated and he takes his feelings out on the crew. Granted that's not a great way to handle it, but it does make his character it bit more human.

As for T'Pol's addiction, the Vulcans history throughout all the Trek series and films have shown that for the most part they are very disciplined, BUT they are not totally infallible. They are capable of making mistakes and misjudgements. One of them being brought down because an addiction is not out of the realm of possibility.

As for why T’Pol would need the Trellium-D to access emotions, that's very simple to answer. T'Pol could just abandon her mental disciplines and just let the emotions come out, but it would be very difficult to do that. The Trellium-D made it easy. That's one of the attractions of using drugs, it makes everything "easier", and thus the addiction spawns from that.

I felt this was a great episode overall. I now find myself looking forward to the next episode. Which is something I haven't felt for a long time now.

It just annoyed me that it was the female MACO who gets injured and needs rescuing by Archer the big, strong manly man. Of course, at this point I get annoyed by pretty much anything Archer does.

I can see why that would bother you, zooropa, but it seemed to me that he just wanted to get an injured MACO out of the way and it wasn't so much based on her sex as on her injury. I still don't understand why she was bloody though.

Whipping up Republican votes in the House.

A lot of my dislike for Archer is from Bakula and his stilted delivery. Add that to the character's godlike omniscience and Archer becomes too much for me to bear. I hope they don't find a way to help the Damar out later because that would just be stupid, IMO. As others have said, not every situation the ENT goes into can be nicely cleaned up.

Heh. Cool.

Pippin, no wonder you were sworn to secrecy! I'm impressed; I don't know if I'd have been able to hold out.

toast,maybe the victimized aliens' weapons don't fire as hot as other plasma weapons? Then the wound wouldn't be cauterized on impact, and the presence of blood would make sense. I could be wanking here....

What I want most to know, now that I've seen one without skin problems: Is this species of trans-dimensional travelers the same kind as Wesley's Traveler? Similar makeup would seem to say yes, but as was pointed out above, similar makeup don't necessarily mean squat in Trek.

Did anybody else notice this? The hatch that Trip and the MACO used to emerge into the alien ship's engine room is the Sweet Spot hatch! It became pretty obvious as soon as Trip put his hands on the sides to push himself out.

That's ok, I'll take any wanking I can get. It's the first time I remember seeing blood from phaser or plasma weapons and it just stuck with me.

Hmmm, everyone has different views of the trannies. Mr. Toast thought they looked like the Founders/Odo. *disclaimer* We never watched that much DS9, so please don't throw any objects with sharp edges *end disclaimer* I wank that they all look the same so that they save money on make-up.

I wish they had done more with the Aquatic language. I loved that Travis mentioned that it sounded like music. And another minor appreciation, no sound of the gas or whatever they used to knock Archer out. Cool.

Gytha, and I mean wanking as in fan-wanking. That sounded really bad when I re-read it.

Was anyone else really scared that Travis would be killed during the attack? I had flashbacks of Twilight where he was killed (during the teaser, I think) so I kept thinking he was toast, especially when the bridge was falling apart.

Oh, yes. As soon as I saw him at the outset, I said, "Phew. He's alive."

But then, I said that about all the others, even Porthos.