Ok, I've seen some Lucy-hate on other threads, the occasional bit of Lucy-love, but to my great surprise there is no thread in Sitcoms for what is generally considered to be one of the greatest sitcoms of all time. Love it or hate it - and I imagine there's a fair division here - it's hard to deny that "I Love Lucy" was highly influential and broke all kinds of ground: First comedy filmed like, well, a film, and in such a way that the rerun was virtually created. First on-screen pregnancy. A format that became one of the standard issue structures of the genre. And more.

And I stand by the opinion that it was very funny. The vineyard sequence in 'Lucy's Italian Movie' [aka The One With The Grape Stomping] is not only my favorite Lucy moment, it's probably my overall favorite sitcom moment ever. I also loved the candy factory scenes in 'Job Switching' - the chocolate fight perhaps a little more than the famous assembly line scene - and almost every episode where Lucy crashed Ricky's nightclub act, but ironically, I'm less fond of the "Viteameatavegamin" sequence than most Lucy fans.

I'd love to see some discussion of "I Love Lucy" here, and can certainly handle dissenting opinions.

I love it. Okay, sadly, it's been a few years since I've seen it, but I did love it and I imagine I still would.
There's an interesting discussion of the show here. Among other things, the article suggests that "the tranquil status quo that begins and ends each episode is less an act of submission than a sly joke; the chaos in between reveals the folly of ever trying to contain Lucy."

Lucy hate? Really? Who on earth could hate Lucille Ball?

I bought her autobiography, "Love, Lucy" several years ago, and have read it many times since then. It's an amazing story of her childhood and rise to stardom, and ends right after her marriage to Gary Morton. Speaking of Desi, he may have had a problem with the D's (drinking and dames), but I still think he was uber-hot. :)

You'd be surprised. Check out the "TV Potluck" sections - "TV's Funniest Moments" and "TV's Most Embarrassing Moments" both have pockets of Lucy-hate.



Not only was he hot, but he was brilliant. Lucy always said that he was a production genius and many of the things that made "I Love Lucy" unique were either his idea, or something that evolved from his suggestions. He also allegedly had an unerring instinct for what was funny - she said she never did - and what material suited her. Even after their divorce she turned to him for career advice. And until the alcohol and other problems exhausted him, he did a heck of a job running Desilu.

Stefan Kanter has just come out with a first-rate biography of Lucy called "Ball of Fire" that is exhaustive, entertaining and reasonably objective. I recommend it highly.

I've seen every episode many times yet they're still as funny now as they were when I first saw them. Same thing goes for many of the other 50's and 60's era sitcoms -- DICK VAN DYKE, ANDY GRIFFITH, The HONEYMOONERS, etc.

I do find that younger people tend not to like I LOVE LUCY and the main bone of contention seems to be that they find her character silly and childish and if she wanted to get into show business why didn't she just go out and audition and get a job?

I always liked the episode where they decide to live like they would have at the turn of the century especially when Ethel and Lucy bake a loaf of bread and the episodes featuring John Wayne. But I think every episode is funny. Some are funnier than others -- I'm not a big fan of the European tour story line -- but they're all funny.

TudorQueen, ITA on Desi's brilliance. Is there anyone even comparable today?

cmkrcwi said:
One thing that was great about that episode is that the huge loaf that came out of the oven? Was real bread. It was a 10-foot long loaf of rye that fed the crew for weeks afterwards.

I just ran up on a funny exerpt in her book that I thought y'all would like to hear...

Hee. I loved Red Skelton. (And I'm only 23, so I guess I'm the exception to the "young people don't like/get Lucy".)

Blake, thanks for that link! Christopher Andersen - who has written frequently and well on other tv matters, particularly soap operas - does a good job in the essay of explaining some of the ways in which the show set up 'tensions' that are effective to this day. I also appreciate the credit he gives to Desi and Lucy for the way things were developed, and the peek at that process.

Being thirty-(mumble,cough,mumble), while I'm older than RainIsBeautiful, I Love Lucy was still well ahead of my time - but I still love it to this day. Among the other things that Desi doesn't get credit for is his acting. I liked watching his reactions as much as I did seeing Lucy's hijinks.

One time on Wings there was an episode where Antonio comes into the airport talking about the great show he saw on TV the night before.

Antonio: "It's about this funny couple named Fred and Ethel..."
Helen: "Oh, you were watching I Love Lucy..."
Antonio: "Lucy? Oh, right...the neighbor...."

It may not be the height of wit, but that bit always cracked me up.

Oh, yeah, his reactions were always wonderful, and impeccably timed. I still remember the last scene from the episode where they're returning from Europe and Lucy has smuggled the cheese, and another passenger 'informed' on her, so customs is waiting, and no cheese, no sign of it. So a reporter asks Ricky if the band can play something and they try, but no sound comes out, and that's where the cheese is, stuffed in the instruments. Ricky and the customs guy advance menacingly on Lucy, who starts a rapid fire explanation. When she gets to the part about how hard the piccolo was, Ricky can't help it, he just starts laughing. [Desi had a great laugh!] "You mean you're not mad at me?" Lucy asks, astonished. "Honey, being married to you may be crazy, but it's never boring," he assures her, and kisses her.

I read somewhere that Desi wanted the 'European trip' to be the end of the regular series, and go from there to the irregularly scheduled 'Lucy/Desi Comedy Hour'. I honestly think if they had done it that way, that that final scene would have been the perfect end of the series.



Well, first of all, I think Vivian Vance and William Frawley were a key part of the show's success, and their characters were carefully constructed. Secondly, this joke is a perfect example of how each character in any successful piece is important - and could conceivably be a lead in another context. And third... Tony Shahloub, who played Antonio, RULES!

That's the test of a truly great show IMO. They never get old. It's amazing how I Love Lucy has held up and will continue for years to come; probably forever.

I don't know exactly how I got into the show when I was a kid but I'm pretty sure my Mom always watched it(reruns) so it got passed on to me. I really remember watching more of the Here's Lucy and the Lucy Show on CBS with her than ILL. Not as classic as ILL but they also had some pretty funny stuff in them every now and then.

Well, my folks didn't get a teevee until 1954, but it's safe to say I've been watching 'I Love Lucy' ever since then. How's that for old???

I am always interested in all the documentaries on Lucille Ball. Obviously the product of a dysfunctional family, she found her niche in television. It's amazing to me how someone as lovely as she wasn't a big name in the movies, but considering the male dominated star system, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Lucille was obviously a strong woman, presumably wasn't very good at mothering, and was excellent in business. When she met Desi, she met her match. BOY were they in love in the beginning....you have seen the color home movies, right? I mean Carrie and Big, you ain't got nothin' on Lucy and Desi.

And he was as savvy in business as she was. He pioneered the three camera system, right? His timing and willingness to give the others the laugh always impressed me. And I loved hearing him laugh offstage at Lucy.

Yup, an indelible part of television history. However, I don't believe Lucille Ball was ever realllly content with what she had accomplished. I could be wrong. I've read the same about Rod Serling, another television genius.

Oh, and I hated Red Skelton. Too saccharine for me.

I guess once the show started it was just impossible to imagine her as anyone else. She had some movie work before, though. I just saw her in Stage Door a while ago. I always find it interesting that the basis for "Lucy" was Lucille's radio show, "My Favorite Husband", considering that she's often considered a mainly physical comedian.

Glad you found the essay interesting, TudorQueen.

Sorry, Blake, I meant her movies in the 1930s and 1940s. I especially liked her in 'The Dark Corner' from 1946. She just never seemed to get beyond the 'B' movies. Although personally I loved the 'B' movies from these two decades.

Several biographies trace her film career and she was, in fact, considered a major 'B-Movie' figure, and appeared in several major films, often working with important figures like Tracy and Hepburn, or Henry Fonda, but never made the transition to the front ranks of film stardom. Some have theorized that she was hard to classify at a time when film stars were encouraged to maintain a particular image and type of role. She was notable for her willingness to take on just about any role, and for attacking the good roles she got with enthusiasm and commitment. [Ironically, she and Ginger Rogers started out in Hollywood at about the same time, and Lela Rogers, Ginger's mom, who ran a film acting school, took Lucy under her wing, but Lucy never attained the same level of stardom as her friend/rival.]

Her later film career was uneven - "Mame" was a disaster for all concerned, but "Yours, Mine and Ours" was commercially and critically successful and holds up pretty well today - but there are some real gems in her earlier work. Check out "Dance, Girl, Dance", "The Big Street" and "The Dark Corner" for a Lucy who is decidedly not Lucy Ricardo.

edited to say: You and I crossed posts, stoneyburke [great name, btw] but I think Lucy's better films need all the promotion they can get!

Wait, I forgot to ask if anyone knows the story about her trying out for Scarlett in Gone with the Wind. I think she did the entire thing sitting down on the floor without noticing, or something like that.
stoneyburke, now I'm going to have to check out that movie because of you. ;)

I loved the two movies she did with Desi during the I LOVE LUCY years -- THE LONG LONG TRAILER and FOREVER, DARLING. Neither is exactly CITIZEN KANE but they're great escapist fun.

I've read that one of her main assets during her movie career was that she was tall and wore clothes well. In fact, I once read a magazine article from around the time I LOVE LUCY started where they do talk about how viewers tuned in not only to see her slapstick antics but also to see her wardrobe.

From what I've read and seen in various documentaries about her and her family, she loved and wanted her children desperately and loved being a mother. The actual mechanics of being a mother, that was a different story. Both Lucie and Desi Jr. have pretty much said they were raised by servants.

Here's some trivia: She was the original choice to play the mother in THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE.

After being 'asked to leave' drama school as a teen, and other unpromising starts, she actually launched her career - and became the main support of her family - as a top model for dress designer Hattie Carnegie. This led to some photographers hiring her as a model, which led to a huge Chesterfield cigarette billboard, which led to her film debut as a Goldwyn Girl in the film "Roman Scandals" with Eddie Cantor.

As for her clothes, she had, on "I Love Lucy", a wonderful costume designer named Eloise Jensen who not only designed the 'trick costumes' [such as the dress Lucy wore when she fell into the starch vat at the laundry] but 'ordinary' clothes that Lucy felt properly represented a relatively middle-class housewife, to the point that, as Lucy pointed out in interviews, Lucy and Ethel frequently wore the same clothes over and over, because that was what 'real' housewives did.

It was a small point that nevertheless added greatly to viewer identification with Lucy Ricardo and her outlandish schemes, I think.

I've read that several times and it's apparently true. She was never a serious contender for the role, but every actress in Hollywood read for Scarlett O'Hara at some point. Only a few got past the reading to a screen test and I don't think Lucy was one of them. The best part of the story is that she did the reading for David O. Selznick (sitting on the floor because she was so awed by him that she forgot to stand up) in his office. Years later, Desilu purchased the Selznick Studio and Selznick's old office became Lucy's. She must have enjoyed sitting at her big desk and looking down at the place on the carpet where she did her reading so many years before.

Lucy was a class act, fiercely loyal to old friends and family. I've always admired how she never, ever said a bad word about Desi after their break-up. Whatever bitterness she harbored over his failings as a husband, she always gave him full credit for his production genius and his role in making her TV's biggest star.

I also read someplace that she was initially cold towards Vivian Vance during the first season of I Love Lucy, perhaps feeling insecure in her new medium. Vance reportedly told a friend "This show is turning out to be a much bigger hit than anyone thought. If I stick it out, I'll be set for life. So, I'm going to learn to love that bitch if it's the last thing I do!" After a while, Lucy calmed down and she and Vivian did learn to love each other. They became as close IRL as Lucy and Ethel. William Frawley was another story. Apparently he was one of the meanest, most disliked men in show business.

William Frawley was described by Lucy as 'irascible' and 'brilliant'. He was an alcoholic whose career, once promising, had fallen when Desi Arnaz decided on him as Fred Mertz. The two men made a pact - Frawley could do what he liked in his off hours. If he was drunk on the job once, Desi would let it pass. A second time, they'd work around him. A third time and he'd be out for good. Frawley was never, ever drunk on the set. He and Vivian Vance were not the first choices for the Mertz's - Lucy wanted Gale Gordon and Bea Benederet, both of whom she had worked with and liked before, both of whom were attached to other shows. They each guest starred on "ILL", and of course Lucy got her wish to co-star with Gordon on all her subsequent series.

It was evidently well known that Frawley and Vance disliked each other, though many felt that actually added to their on-screen believability [one rule of the writers was that Fred could put down Ethel but if anyone else did, he would always come to her defense]. One of Frawley's quirks was that he would tear out the pages of the scenes he was in and memorize those - perfectly - without even reading the rest of the script. Once, he expressed bewilderment over the laugh he was getting for entering and saying "Hi, Ethel". He didn't know that before his entrance Ethel had been coaxed into the bottom half of a horse costume...!

One thing that always bugged me about the show was the needless fat jokes aimed at Ethel. It was an ongoing joke, about how Lucy was the thin and pretty one, and Ethel was the fat and ugly one. Well, if you ask me, Ethel's face was much prettier, and though the weights of the two women changed throughout the years, even at her heftiest Vivian Vance was maybe 10 pounds heavier than Lucy.

I think I remember hearing somewhere that it was written into Vance's contract that she had to maintain a weight heavier than Lucy's. I have no problem with fat jokes in general, and they were often funny, but they would have been funnier if the butt of the joke was actually fat.

I loved the relationship of Lucy and Desi, how he was constantly tempted by being around young, beautiful dancers and singers at the club, but he only had eyes for his wife.

I can't think of any other sitcom that was able to completely change the setting-moving from NYC to Connecticut-and still be funny. Those Connecticut episodes were just as well-written and true to the characters. Not to mention the addition of Little Ricky. So many other sitcoms just die when they try to mess up the formula by adding a baby, or changing the venue, going on a vacation, etc. I wonder why "Lucy" was able to keep up the quality?

Part of Vivian Vance's contract stated that she stay 20 lbs overweight and not wear any makeup. Why, I don't know.

Fred and Ethel were supposed to be noticeably older than Lucy and Ricky. In real life, Vivian Vance was only two years older than Lucille Ball, and (as others have noted) quite an attractive woman. I've heard that the weight clause was intended to make her look more the part of a frumpy, older neighbor (and to assuage Lucy's insecurity about Vance's attractiveness).

I remember seeing a clip once of Lucy and Desi receiving some kind of civic or humanitarian award. Lucy was gracious, yet ultra-professional, almost a little distant in her remarks. Desi, on the other hand, nearly burst into tears as he recounted that his first job on coming to America from Cuba was cleaning bird-cages, and that he didn't dare dream at the time of achieving the kind of success he eventually did attain. The contrast between the two of them (reserved vs. ultra-emotional) was quite striking.

To me, the best ones will always be the New York episodes; but I do think the Europe episodes had some very funny moments. My favorite has to have been when the guard thought that Lucy wass sneaking across the border. Then in the detainment area Lucy only spoke in english, which was translated to spanish by Ricky, then into german, then into french for the guard.


I always thought it was great when during any crazy scene with Lucy, loudest amongst all the laughter was Desi off-stage cracking up.


But he had such loveable and diverse characters. There's that freeloader, and the tramp, the hobo, the bum, the vagabond. And who could ever forget that guy who lived on the streets with a heart of gold?

I'm really enjoying all the backstory info here. I think I liked the history of this show as much as the show.



Thanks, TudorQueen. An homage to one of my first crushes, Jack Lord, in the show by the same name.



Blake, you won't be disappointed if you at all like film noir.



Albanyguy, I always liked the video of her and Desi swimming in their pool with, I believe, one of their grandchildren. She tousles his hair, and you can see that she had genuine affection for him. I believe she really, really loved him, she just couldn't live with him.

TudorQueen, did you do research on the show? I'm an old-time Hollywood junkie!

Sorry, muchsarcasm, I felt as if I were required to like Red Skelton. Much in the same way that I was required to enjoy Lawrence Welk. I never liked, and still don't like, having to obey the rules of authority without forming my own opinion about them. So maybe it's just me.

Hi everyone. First time poster in the sitcom forum.

My favorites were the Hollywood episodes. But each storyline (NY, Europe, Connecticut (?)) had some good ones too. I love the episode where Ricky is trying to read a book and is struggling with all of the pronunciations of the "ough" endings. The "We're Having a Baby" episode: I swear I still tear up when he sings that song and then realizes it's Lucy that's pregnant. The baby chicks episode. Or the one where the girls were jealous of a neighbor's good looking younger relative and the attention the men give her, so they all dress up real sexy and Lucy's dress was so tight, she couldn't sit down all night. Oh, and my favorite European one is the counterfeit money episode and the translation at the end. So many note worthy episodes. I'll admit, I've seen them too many times to be able to sit thru them all, but there are still a handful of episodes that I can still watch and laugh at. The ones I listed are just a few.

Actually I think I read somewhere that in the later years of ILL, Vivian Vance had it written into her contract that she never had to touch Frawley. They actually did show a bit of affection toward each other in the first few seasons, but in the later years you could tell they really hated each other.

I'm the same way. I don't always watch the show when it's on but I always enjoy it when I do.

Vivian Vance's real-life husband appeared in one episode. He played "Dore Schary" in the Hollywood episode where they find out Ricky's movie has been shelved and they try to find someone to play a "Hollywood producer" in order to impress Mr. Schary so he'll keep Ricky on contract. Originally Dore Schary was supposed to play himself but he backed out.

I kind of wish they'd bring back the other Lucy shows although they weren't quite as good as I LOVE LUCY. I'd still love to see them again though.

I don't think I've ever saw that one stoneyburke but I did see The Big Street. That was very good. Lucy played a very unlikable character in it, which was unusual to see. Was The Dark Corner good?

I love movies from the 30's and 40's!

One of my favorite European ones was when Lucy wanted to bring the huge cheese back home on the plane. (I forgot the reason why she wasn't supposed to take it, was iit weighed too much and she had to pay extra for it?) Anyway, the scene where she pretends it's her baby was hysterical.(Buuurp!) And then she and Ethel try to eat as much of it as they can and ended up stuffing the rest in Ricky's band's instruments.

One of my all-time faves is the one with Elsa Lanchester. Lucy and Ethel think she's the hatchet murderess.(I forgot her name) I love the part in the diner where Lucy is trying to get the attention of the guy behind the counter; trying to "not-so-subtly tell him that Elsa's the wanted murderess. "I have another HELPing! That's one episode I never see enough. They don't really show it that often.

Do you, valny??? The 'Odd Couple' AND movies from the '30s and '40s!!! Nice, isn't it, to meet people with such like interests on the Internet? I find it amazing!!!!!!

Oh, yes, 'The Big Street' when Henry Fonda carried a chiffoned, dying Lucille Ball? Damon Runyon, right? I liked it, for sure. But yes, you'll like 'The Dark Corner' even more. I hope you have TCM. I just got it, thanks to the idiot Cablevision, and I'm waiting for a film noir festival.

Wasn't the Elsa Lanchester episode one of the hour long Luci-Desi shows? I loved them, in particular the Tallelujah Bankhead one. I may be getting confused. But here was an example of a show that handled star casting well. Remember the William Holden one, where he stared at her across the booth at the Brown Derby? Or the Richard Widmark orange one?

And today's shows handle star casting soooooo well, can you say 'Will & Grace', which for the most part sucks at this?

I think the William Holden episode is the best of the trip-to-California sequence. Best Desi reaction scene ever: when Lucy lights her putty nose. Yikes!

Another favorite of mine is when the foursome stops in Ethel's hometown of Albuquerque, NM en route to California and are cajoled into putting on a live show. I loved the background antics Lucy, Ricky, and Fred pulled off while "Ethel May" was singing that old favorite "Short'ning Bread."

LOL, Inquisitionist, yes especially the vaudeville bit about the tree in the background. All the background antics were from vaudeville.

Somehow, I'm in a 'Twilight Zone' kind of appreciation of comedy. I love the talent that existed in vaudeville yet appreciate the wit of 'CYE'. I hate the stupid, easy, vapid, sex-only dialogue that passes for comedy today.

Therefore, I get to constantly indulge in my favorite activity when it comes to present day media.......complaining!

Everyone here is bringing back some great memories as you describe your favorite episodes. My brother and I started watching ILL during the late 80's when we were home during the summer on school holidays. One of my favorites was when Ricky is telling Little Ricky the story of little red riding hood in Spanish. Desi Arnaz was such a great comedic actor.

Just had to say Horray! Lucy Posting!! I have a 12 and 10 year old, and they Love Lucy as much as I do (then again, they love LHOTP, and most of their friends have no clue what that is). My fav is also when Ricky finds out Lucy is preggers. I used the wav file 2 years ago to let family know that I was expecting. Tear up everytime I even hear the song. Lucy was the best at what she did, as was the rest of the cast... I am so greatful that the shows are still on so that my children can enjoy them with me.

Actually, it was one of the first episodes in the storyline where they all go to Florida [a final season storyline that preceded the move to Connecticut].

I've done a lot of research into the show, and Lucy and Desi, partly because I'm a huge fan, and partly because at one point I was researching a novel about a woman who becomes a tv comedy star [I never actually wrote it but it's in my head again so I might some day if I ever finish graduate school] and I was looking at the background and mechanics of the format, especially the classic shows.

Good for you, Tudor Queen. I love all things old movie and old television.

I also appaud any discourse on women in the entertainment industry. I'm not a raging feminist, but I was dismayed to see, JUST recently, an article in the NY Times stating that women were STILL not a major force either before or behind the camera in the media industry.

Sad, in my opinion. Oh yes, women have made big strides, but it's STILL a male dominated industry.

Good luck on both your graduate school and your book.

I'm no feminist either, but I agree wholeheartedly with your above opinion. When one examines the 'Most Powerful People' surveys in the pop culture magazines it's clear that men dominate the industry. Yes, there have been strides, and one can point to women like Sherry Lansing who have achieved a great deal. But it is clear that we have a great deal further to go. Onscreen, male film stars make a great deal more money than female stars - and there are plenty of rationales about the international market being more receptive to the action films that are not language dependent, which are more likely to star men, but still... Lucille Ball was the first female studio head ever - and that was over forty years ago. How many have there been since? No American woman has ever been nominated for the Best Director Oscar - though that may change this year, with Sofia Coppola - and only two women ever. We can count on one hand the number of female producers who have won the Best Picture Oscar.

I could go on but this is becoming an off-topic rant.

I'm something of a pop culture expert in my circle [said she modestly] and get calls at all hours to settle trivia debates. I know a lot about Lucy, especially "ILL", because I really grew up watching it and love it, and have practically memorized my favorite episodes. It's a useless talent, but it's mine!

At the risk of being booted, from dictionary.com

Feminism:
1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
2. The movement organized around this belief.

In other words, per the common definition (1), you don't have to be a member of NOW to be a feminist.

Back to topic: Another favorite of mine was when Lucy got a loving cup stuck on her head, completely covering her face, then somehow got separated from Ethel in the NY subway system.

Actually, discussing feminism in the context of "ILL" is not only on-topic [I hope!] but a common pursuit for writers. There's the essay stoneyburke linked, and other pieces I've read that argue whether or not Lucy [and Lucille Ball herself] were feminist role models. Lucille Ball herself said she was not a feminist but that she was 'liberated till it hurt' and indeed she was the support of her fractured family for many years and took over Desilu when Desi could not continue.

I think someone said uptopic that modern viewers, watching Lucy's antics, wonder why she didn't just go off and get a job rather than crashing Ricky's nightclub act, etc, but that the fifties context formed a series of constraints... [I'm not doing this very well]. Lucy's indomitability, which was a natural extension of a certain 'game' quality in Lucille Ball's appeal, not to mention her entire attitude towards her career [she would do anything asked of her, without question] gave even Lucy Ricardo's most disastrous attempts to break free a certain subversive quality.

Recent biographies and studies point out that Lucille Ball was unfailingly deferential to men, but Lucy Ricardo... not so much. How many episodes featured Ricky ordering Lucy not to do something, which she promptly went out and did, and even if it ended badly for her, she was eager to launch a new scheme the next week. And sometimes she did win. One of the great things about the show was how fair it was. Yes, sometimes Lucy ended up the loser, but sometimes she and Ethel really did outsmart the men. Or the Ricardos beat the Mertzes. Or they all ended up laughing about the situation together.

I think one of the reasons I loved Lucy was that she never, ever gave up. Never lost that gleam in her eye.

If I'm travelling off topic with this, somebody stop me. TudorQueen, wish I'd linked to an essay, but 'twasn't me.

I think Lucille Ball had to work within the confines of the age she was in to get her point across. I recently heard on an American Masters special that Rod Serling beat his head against the executive wall with his Playhouse 90 teleplays on social injustice, since no one wanted them spoken of. However, when he changed the wrongdoers into aliens or unnamed monsters, the censors let the same themes pass.

I think Lucille did the same thing. Through comedy, she got her point across. She made us laugh with her, not at her. Jackie Gleason did the same in his show. He played a seemingly blustering, chauvinistic fool, but in the end Alice knew best and he admitted she was right. Admittedly, a little too verbally abusive for today's standards, but I still laugh at the show and I think it will live forever.

As will ILL. She didn't play the pearl wearing wife that June Cleaver or Jane Wyman did. Their shows didn't reach into the viewer's psyche the way Lucy's did.

I'm rambling now. But I give a lot of credit to Lucille Ball. No matter how she was in her personal life...hey, how many 'stars' today are model parents or citizens?...she was a genius of the medium. As was Desi. And Gleason.

I wonder even about her being 'deferential'. Maybe she was 'deferential' like a fox. Gave the old goats what they wanted by kowtowing to them, but perhaps she also got what she wanted professionally in the end.

::bump::

Favorite episodes, Lucy lovers? And, so that we don't stand accused of making lists, explain why they're your favorites, please.

I've mentioned a few favorites already, but another moment I absolutely love is Lucy being helicoptered out to the ship bound for Europe. She had missed both its original departure and that of the pilot boat that could have taken her out to it. Lucy was great, but again it was Ricky's (Desi's) reactions as she was lowered in the harness and kept missing the deck that made the scene truly hilarious for me.

My two favorite ILL's:

William Holden in Hollywood: The entire sequence in the Brown Derby when Lucy sees WH being seated and falls all over herself trying to see him without BEING OBVIOUS! I loved the way he snuck up and looked over the booth at her as she was turning around to look at him. She was always so marvelous at the embarrassed-trying-to-be-nonchalant expressions. Then the subsequent meeting and the burning of the putty nose. I have read that that was an unscripted accident. Does anyone know if this is true?

The Mystery Book Flies out the window: This was an early one, I believe. Lucy in so engrossed in a mystery story that everytime someone interrupts her while she's reading it, she freaks and the book flies out the nearest window. If my memory serves, she was also so entranced that she dips her potato chips in her cold cream while reading it. Lucy was a whiz with props and I can LOL just thinking about that flying book.

Did anyone ever see Lily Tomlin live around 1980? She did this wonderfully haunting sketch about a girl growing up watching ILL and at the end of the sketch the girl, now grown and a mother, calls her kids to come get in the car to go somewhere and they're watching ILL. As she ends the sketch and leaves the stage, LT very gently hums the ILL theme song. It was so moving.

I heard that somewhere, too.

Some of my favorite episodes:

Lucy Dances with Van Johnson : Not necessarily a laugh riot in this episode, but after all of the wacky episodes prior to this one, I remember thinking what a beautiful and poised person Lucille Ball really was.
Lucy and the Counterfiet Money in Paris: From watching Lucy trying to translate French, to trying to get catsup for the snails and the chef's reaction and then watching Ricky translate thru a long line of people all speaking different languages--I laugh all thru this one.
We're Having a Baby: That last scene when Ricky realizes that it's Lucy who requested the song and he's going to be a father just brings tears to my eyes. You can see the love they had for each other and the joy of impending parenthood.
Lucy and Ricky Hire an English Tutor: Listening to Ricky struggle with all of the different pronunciations of the "ough" endings while reading a children's story was always funny, but now that I have a 5 year old learning how to read, it's even more poignant. What a strange language English is!

I could add quite a few more, but then this post would be way too long. I'll stop with these four.

I love I Love Lucy episodes from before they moved to the country. One of my favorites was the episode when Lucy was accussed of passing counterfiet bills in France (I think) and she, Ricky, and about two other people get in a line to translate. Ricky translating English to Spanish, Guard translating Spanish to German, Guard 2 translating German to French, Guard 3 translating French to English for Lucy. Another favorite was the episode where Lucy and Ethel wore potato sacks around France. And or course,

"Slowly I turned! Step by step... inch by inch!"

Back around 1969, they had a documentary about Queen Elizabeth II which showed some of her private family life. One of the things they showed was the family watching "I Love Lucy".

Has anyone mentioned "Vitameatavegamin" yet? It's hard for me to pick favorites because just about every episode has at least one scene that I absolutely love.

Some interesting Emmy tidbits:
Desi recieved 0 nominations.
Lucille Ball had 8 nominations and won 4 Emmys.
Vivian Vance had 3 nominations and won 1 Emmy.
William Frawley was nominated 4 times but never received an Emmy.
The I Love Lucy show was nominated 3 times and won 2 Emmys.
The Writers were nominated 2 times and never received an Emmy.

I liked that one too. She looked gorgeous and she did a great job dancing. It always made me wonder why Ricky was so dead-set against her being in show business. The few times he actually let her perform, she was good.
Remember the "Sally Sweet" dance she did with him? They were great together.

Too bad Ricky couldn't see the potential of having his wife partner up with him on stage. They would have made a great team. They could have turned the Tropicana (and Club Babalu) into a comedy club, lol.

Although, I hated the way he treated her like a child sometimes, like when she would call him sir, and when he would put her over his knee and spank her. I'm no feminist but if my husband did that to me, I'd black both his eyes.

One of my best friends is a fellow Lucy lover and he always said that he wondered why Ricky didn't get it - without Lucy it was a run of the mill nightclub act, but with her it was unique and suspenseful and very entertaining.



Part of this was rooted in the rather different culture of the early fifties, part of it in Desi Arnaz's own machismo - though I doubt Desi ever put Lucy over his knee! Blackened eyes would have been the least of it. He seemed to feel that in the context of the show, of the Ricardos' relationship, Ricky would have to be 'the boss'.

Another interesting note about how Desi saw the character of Ricky. In "Lucy Tells The Truth", the original script called for the Ricardos to be audited by the IRS and, when it turns out that Ricky cheated a little, Lucy - still trying to prove she can be totally truthful for 24 hours - blows the whistle on him and Ricky ends up paying a fine. Desi refused to play the scene, one of the only times he ever refused to do something the writers had presented. As someone whose family had been 'taken in' by America after Batista's takeover of Cuba, and who had prospered beyond his wildest dreams, Desi Arnaz was fiercely patriotic - he joined the armed forces and was assigned to entertain the troops during WWII - and absolutely refused to play Ricky as an income tax cheat.

Someone did briefly, but ya know, it's HOT in here!

I know my all-time fave Lucy moment:

Lucy decides that because Fred's too cheap to buy new furniture for his apartment, that they should reupholster everything. She and Ethel get all excited, but Fred's all like, "You're not touching this table. And you're not touching this chair. And you're not touching this lamp." He touches the lamp, and the nightshade begins to fall really slowly to about halfway down the pole. The zinger is Ethel's deadpan delivery: "Oh, noooooo. We wouldn't dream of getting rid of that lamp." Or something like that. Cracks my shit up ev-er-y time!