I find it hard to believe that Lex would use him, either, but that's the only substantial reason I'm willing to settle for (for the sake of continuity after that line in Ryan). I don't want it to be that 'don't-want-to-hurt-you' excuse because Clark already used that reasoning for Lana. It seems lame to be using that reasoning for Lex.


I totally agree that they need to have a good story. If Lex is going to lose his memory and then Clark does not tell him later on, that's too easy. I want to see what Lex does when he has that knowledge. With all the 'what-ifs' scenarios TPTB get to play with, wouldn't it be a fun story to write?

vallegirl laments:
But Clark DOESN'T know that Lex is still obsessed. Only we, the audience, do.

vallegirl, the thing that was bugging me was You have to look at it from Clark's POV. (I would be echoing most of the above posts)

- Lex came clean when he investigated Clark in the first season. In his POV, Lex has stopped being nosy. Clark does not know about the CoCK or that Lex stole that blood vial from Dr. Bryce. Clark has no reason to suspect Lex has not been truthful.

- Bo Kent's disapproval is no longer an obstacle as Clark has proved by telling Pete.

- Clark knows Lionel is obssessed with him. It's scary to have Lionel on your back so who would be perfect to protect him but Lex? Not only does he have the money and resources, Lex is the insider. We sure as hell know that he won't be confiding in Lionel so I can't see Lex betraying Clark.

My point is, in his POV, there is NO reason for Clark not to trust Lex. In fact, it'll be better off that Lex knows.

Me thinks this has troll odor. Everyone who's commented on the episode, those not even a fans, pretty much could see Lex was relieved that he wasn't crazy about Clark and was trying to verify his knowledge with the people he thought saw it all too. He NEVER said or looked at Clark like Clark was a freak. Clark was the one looking paranoid and freaked, looking at Lex in horror. Lex looked as if he'd finally seen an angel or Jesus himself.

The upcoming promo clips, dream or not, has Lex looking thankful and begging for confirmation from Clark as he's being saved. Clark is in return looking at Lex with mercy, affection, and sorrow.

I just watched Leech, where Lex is begging Clark just tell him the truth I'm your friend. Lex is in search of the Truth, not a secret to use against and hurt Clark. When Lex does go bad/Anti-Clark it will be due to his recent psycho paranoid fits, thinking Clark is either against him or won't help him as he starts on his evil exploits that have nothing to do with Clark originally..

I guess Scully & Mulder are disturbed obsessive freaks, like Lex.

I can't remember/figure out why Lex stole that blood. And why Lionel is interested in it too. If they don't know it's Clark's, what motive do they have for being interested in some random person's blood?

If someone knows and is bored could you clue me in? Thanks.

Sure, I'm home alone on New Year's Eve. Lemme see if I have this straight:

In the episode Fever, Lex may or may not have ever known Clark was sick, or that Helen went to the Kents to see him and drew a blood sample.

But, he knew Martha was in the hospital. And he saw Helen obsessing over this blood sample and was curious to get a peek at her scribbled notes, which she snatched away from him.

Meanwhile, Lex bought off a CDC man to bring him a copy of Martha's chart. He may have come to think the blood was Martha's. Knowing her illness was very unusual and involved green meteor dust, he wanted a look at it.

Lex later has the blood stolen, but feels guilty and decides not to have it analyzed, giving it back to Helen, who gives it (sells it?) to Lionel, never revealing the source.

Lionel DOES have it analyzed and discovers just how Precious it is... He ensnares Chloe into his web to get a look at her krypto-mutant research and learn what she knows about that special young man Clark Kent.

Morgan Edge at some point learns from Helen that the blood is valuable in some way and hires Kal to steal it so he can sell it for substantial profit back to Lionel.

And the rest is there in the two part season premiere. Morgan finds out who the blood came from, but "dies" before he can finish working out a deal to sell the source to Lionel. And Lionel is left thinking it was a setup and never true.

But he may still remember Morgan's words about Lionel's informant "holding out" on him, and start leaning on Chloe again.

And Lex, knowing that Lionel was so eager to gain the blood for himself, is probably wondering just what he found out about it.

Or maybe not... Lionel never did let on to Lex that it was special. So maybe as far as Lex knows, Lionel was only interested in it because Lex was.

DTS has a new trailer for Asylum. A little more Lana than the other ones, but Lex looks to be laying the smackdown on Clark.

For one, the stealing and reading of Martha's chart (which Trevacious Guy also mentioned) is a monstrous invasion of privacy, and, even if it was meant to be benevolent concern, it betrays the I-know-what's-best-for-you-better-than-you-do attitude that shows that some part of Lex considers Clark and the Kents a sort of possession whose privacy he can invade as he likes, rather than independent people whose rights he respects. Of course, his justification would be that he loves Clark and the Kents. Which is true. But there's something stalkerish about that feeling - at least in the way he expresses it.

Besides, Lex's insistence on knowing ALL about Clark - his intermittent, obssessive prying at his secret - isn't it, though much less tasteless and annoying - isn't it (dare I breathe it?) - isn't it somewhat Lanaesque?

{ducks and covers}

I poke my head out from behind my rock to add that I really DO like Lex as a character, and I think at this point I still feel that his character is Of The Good. And what I like MOST about the character is its complexity - you can SEE the seeds of future evil in him, you can still see he's got a chance to beat it, but it's clearly there. And I love that complexity.

{ducks again}

Thanks Shannen for the new trailer update.

So, Lex gets mad at Clark for not rescuing him?
Or for not telling the doctors that he's not crazy?

I'm being led to believe that the reason Clark wouldn't come clean with Lex after the memory wipe, is because he's afraid that Lex would get mad at him? Wada..?!

And screamin, stop ducking around so..

"I'll never forgive you for this, Clark!"

Noooooooo!

This new trailer is breaking my heart. ::sniff::

And with that, I become a Video Archivist. Whee!

I don't know what's going on in that trailer but Lex sounds really sexy with the growly shouting.

"As one reality is lost, a new love is found"... Yes, Lana getting a new boyfriend is certainly worthy of being paralleled with Lex losing his mind, his grip on reality, and possibly his only friendship.

I hope it's just one of those misleading trailers the WB is so famous for.

Thanks TrevaciousGuy! It was really good of you to type that all out. I had forgotten that Lex is kind of obsessed with the Kents too, not just Clark. So it makes sense for him to basically be stockpiling as much info about them as possible.

And it's okay to be home alone on New Year's Eve. It's cold out there. And people really are overrated. Just yesterday I almost beat one to death with my shoe.

Two things. That God IS has shaved. He’d look far too old for KK if he looked like his usual self (not that they look right even when he has shaved). Secondly, how is Eric (I’m guessing, it looks like him) able to take Clarks powers again?

5am, need sleep…



I hadn't thought it was possible to see the character as anything but in a grey area.

Oh boy.... That last screencap on the third row. That's an angry face.

I think why Lex is angry is that he probably asks Clark to admit to the people at the asylum that he's an alien (so that the know that Lex isn't really crazy) but Clark isn't really going to ever do that, so all hell breaks loose.
This probably happens after Clark tries to rescue Lex but I bet the three FOTW interfere somewhere and they are caught.

IMO this is where Clark will make his first ever rational decision (I believe in Shattered, he was too scared at Lex having found out and he ran), this time it's a conscious decision but a very hard one because Lex is asking him to practically commit personal suicide. To jeorpardaise everything about his life, parents, friends just to prove Lex right (he would probably have to make them beileve him by showing something alien-like about him). Hell he can barely bring himself to admit to his friends who he is never mind perfect dangerous strangers.

I doubt that Lex is fully aware of what he's asking Clark to do, all he wants is out of that place and anyhow will do. I don't know about him willing to sacrifice Clark and his secret when the result will be Clark probably getting his own lovely lab with Lionel smiling in the wings. Lex can't see that or doesn't want to and he's extremely annoyed at Clark's reluctance to do what he wants. This also tells me that Lex was never angry at Clark for what happened at the end of Shattered but this he's livid about.

I know two things will happen at the end of Asylum, Lex will forget what Clark is and Clark will live with the decision he made. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Lex even putting Clark in that position in the first place or Clark making the decision it will make for a compelling TV.

The only saving grace is that Lex won't remember, only Clark will. Something else to add to his ever growing guilt complex, I won't be surprised if snaps by the end of the season.




You probably should duck for ever suggesting something so horrible about dear wonderful Lex.

Given what we have been shown, I don't think you can reduce Lex's quest to have Clark reveal his secret as simply about 'just trying to prove himself right'.

The characters of Clark and Lex have been drawn living parallel destinies.

In the same way that Clark has been desperate to find out why he was sent to Earth, to escape the genetic imprint of an apparently meglomaniac father and to make his own place in the world, Lex has been doing the same.

In Lex's mind, he feels he should have died the day of the meteor shower and that Clark gave him another chance. To Lex, Clark is the only person strong enough and good enough and loyal enough to help Lex crawl out of the jaws of cruel destiny. Lex is strong, but he can't do it on his own. Lex's quest to discover the truth about the day at the bridge has not been some detached scientific experiment. It's been about finding out the truth about why he's here and what he's meant to do. It's about forging a life away from his father.

Clark was every bit as obsessed with the Kawatchi (sp?) caves and the alien messages as Lex was with the Kents -- and for pretty much the same reasons. Both Clark and Lex, in pursuing their need to unearth these mysteries, stumbled unknowingly into things they didn't understand, tried clumsily to fix it and caused the deaths of others.

Neither are averse to using illegal methods to obtain information when they need to know something. Neither has managed to stay on the straight and narrow.

Clark has tried to escape the pain using RedK and has done some terrible things. Similarly drugged up on mutant plants or hallucinogens, Lex has also done some things that would shame him in his right mind. Again the parallels are always there.

Sure, you can argue that Lex finding out once and for all about Clark means extreme danger for Clark (I'd argue with you though, especially with the part about it being "suicide"), but what are the consequences for Lex?

In a way, the "to tell or not to tell" dilemma is the wedge that separates their parallel destinies, a set of scales that will tip one way or the other, preserving one character's life and sanity and condemning the other to a lifetime of torture.

In one scenario, Clark exposes his secret, risking incarceration, experimentation, madness and torture. In the other scenario, Clark refuses to expose his secret, committing Lex to incarceration, experimentation, madness and torture.

One finds oneself wishing for a third scenario, where they join forces to protect Clark's secret, but that ain't gonna happen.

But I strongly disagree that the stakes for Clark are the loss of his family, his friends, his life -- while the stakes for Lex are the loss of a mere pet project.

In fact, as Lex has been shown consistently to have so many good, moral, decent, loyal qualities mixed in with all the mental abuse and social rejection, I often find myself feeling quite angry towards the Kents that their brand of protection is basically sacrificing Lex to protect Clark. Sacrificing everybody and everything to protect Clark. There comes a time when that starts to seem selfish and inhumane.

In essence I see this story sacrificing the man Lex could have been to Clark's secret. Sure, I know "evil is a choice", but I don't see that in this particular scenario, Lex has been given any choices.

Actually, I agree with this and I was quite pissed at Lex for stealing the blood but you kinda proved my point. The character is grey. Vallegirl's assesment was that he was more of a stalker than a friend when actually both qualities co-exist in him. ETA I know that was your point but I feel it needed to be stressed.



Actually, Lana's behavior in Season 2 was a mirror of Lex's behavior in Season One. Remember Lana doesn't have a character to call her own-she's just given traits of better characters.

Actually my arguement was Clark would be committing suicide in exposing himself to the doctors, nurses, ordelies, Lionel. It's like a one way ticket to a high security lab.
Lex already knows but now he wants Clark to colloborate his story in order to free him. It's the decision Clark has to live with and the fact that Lex will be minus a portion of his memory.



Yes, Clark and Lex aren't averse to breaking and entering. And obviously Lex hasn't learned from Insurgence about making deals with people that aren't trustworthy. He should always have leverage against them. It isn't surprising that the three FOTW doublecrossed him.



I never mentioned about the stakes of Lex's loss being a pet project. His stakes are a memory wiped out (I said this), this is the only way Lionel will ever let him out and Clark's are family, friends, life. His continuing friendship with Clark depends if he remembers what happens in Asylum, I'm sure they will make him forget about Shattered.



I'm sorry have I missed something in that Clark is their son? And when it comes down to it between a choice to protect Clark or Lex they will always choose Clark and quite frankly I don't expect anything else. Who woudn't do anything to protect their child especially when that child isn't totally normal. It isn't selfish or humane rather the love a parent has for his/her child.
If Lionel had even a tenth of their love for their child then Lex wouldn't be in this predicament.

And Jonathan is really the only one that has extreme issues with the Luthors and Lex has known about that since the Pilot and even then that hatred has mellowed towards Lex.

Soon enough a lot of characters on this show will make their choices and live with the consequences, Clark, Chloe, Lex, Lionel. And it won't be blamed on anyone else.

I like to note that the Kents were completely ready to sacrifice Ryan in "Ryan" to protect Clark, a child who has done nothing to hurt them & never ratted on them or investigated them or anything. So, it's not just Lex. Also remember they sent an ALIEN who they knew was stronger than usual AND had tantrums to public elementary school with other people's kids. Wow, talk about not caring about the public welfare and of course, putting the Ross family at a disadvantage when it came to dealing with Lionel. They knew their son was committing felonies in Metropolis during the summer yet I have doubts about whether the safety of the others really entered into their thoughts. I think that there's something called one's responsibility towards society. Honestly, if I was Clark's dad and if Jor-El didn't want to help me, I would be making Kryptonite bullets like Van if that was the only way to stop him.

I think that it's interesting how far BOTH Jonathan & Lionel are ready to ignore other people's welfare for the sake of their sons. I really think this proves that the Kents' hands aren't completely clean either.

In Stray they took Ryan in but had to give him back to his guardians (there was no sacrifice for Clark) and in Ryan they were angry with Clark for breaking the law, breaking and entering, kidnapping of a minor. All serious offences. It's been awhile since I saw the episode but I'm pretty sure there wasn't any careless regard for Ryan.



I thought they waited until Clark could control his strenght and learn not to play rough before he was sent to school. Sure he still threw tantrums but he never hurt anyone (and I always got the impression that these tantrums were all when he was on the farm and in other people's company he was always a shy boy). Or am I missing something here, feel free to correct me.



This show has been pretty good in showing that the Kents are over-protective of Clark. This is the same boy that the sheltered to such an extent that by the time he meets Lex he's an extremely naive, innocent boy and he's still that in so many ways. And they've always been willing to do *anything* for him and this you *cannot* compare with Lionel.

This is what Shattered was all about, Lionel was ready to sacrifice his son for his sake and this is something the Kents would never do. They just believe in protecting Clark.
And that's kind of mellowed this season because Clark has so far been perfectly capable of protecting himself except for Extinction which proved that sometimes he will always need his parents. But at the end he still took care of business himself.

clarkenwell wrote:


I know what you mean, but I guess I always imagined the Kents (like my favourite Kents, the ones in the Dean Cain version) were the kind of folks who would find a way to do the RIGHT thing, not just the thing that was best for them. I understand the parental dilemma, their fierce protective instincts, but it just doesn't make the Kents very nice people in the end. What then makes them less self-serving than the Luthors, if everyone else must be sacrificed to their own needs? Let's not forget, it was the Kents that went to Lionel Luthor first, asking him to illegally arrange papers for their son. In turn, Jonathan sold out their friends, Pete's family. Jonathan actually opened this conduit of take and take that has ensnared their sons and somehow condemned them to a cycle of hatred.

It's like that old standard. Evil villain dangles Lois Lane over a vat of bubbling acid, and some stranger over another. Superman can save only one. Does he save Lois because he loves her? No, we demand that our superheroes go that extra mile to make the tough decisions. I know the Kents aren't meant to be Superheroes. But I still want them to be good. Special. The kind of people who go that extra mile to help others. Not just delivering muffins to the local old folks' home to make themselves feel good, but to risk themselves to help a friend. Lex has done it for them.

There was a moment in "Shattered", where Lionel turned up to level claims of insanity against Lex and Clark looked towards his parents, that Martha and Jonathan suddenly looked like they WANTED to believe Lex was crazy with all their hearts. They were too willing to believe Lionel, of all people. Too willing to have Lex carted out of their lives forever. I just found them more evil in that moment than anything I've ever seen Lex do, or probably ever will.

They have told Lex they accepted him into their family, gave him a compass so he could find his way and accepted his buying back the deed to their farm, and yet the minute he needs help -- not material help, just someone to listen to his side of the story and accept that there might be something else going on -- they immediately and completely turned their backs on him, advising Clark to do the same. Their platitudes about Lex needing help I found demeaning and infuriating. I really, REALLY didn't like them in that moment.

Even in his dementia, Lex was so right branding them the "Kent cabal". Willing to do anything or sacrifice anything to maintain their happy little family unit with their miracle son. If only there had been a scene where they were prepared to make an effort to help Lex, or at least listen to him.



Actually, I think I can. Lionel's is the ultimate version of "tough love". He sees Lex as too soft, too emotional, too much like his mother. He's going to beat the soft edges off him until Lex can be strong and resiliant and fulfil his place as Luthor heir. Lionel believes this is his gift to his son.

I see evidence all the time that Lionel loves Lex very much. It's sick and cruel and selfish and indictable, but I think it's love nonetheless. Of course Lionel's version of love is drugging Lex to protect him from killing him. So it's no wonder Lex is pretty messed up.



But see, I think the Kents's love is not altogether healthy either. It's selfish, it's stifling and with the benefit of the omniscient vantage point, I think you can make an argument that their brainwashing their son into believing sharing his secrets with trusted friends is to be avoided like Kryptonite, that they will have unwittingly condemned Clark to a cycle of loneliness, and contributed to a situation where Clark's most loyal friend becomes his most vicious enemy.

clarkenwell suggested:


Hate to admit it but I think this might be the 'personal benefit' I was saying that Lex would use Clark for. I was secretly hoping for something grander like he wants Clark to avenge him by blowing up LuthorCorp Tower. I guess it's too much to ask...

lexualhealing pointed out:


WORD. Although I say Lex is a great friend, I also agree that his obsession with Clark is unsettling. This is my only gripe about Lex - that he does not leave Clark's secrets alone.

lexualhealing went on to say..


Please, do not compare Lex's fault as to that of Lana's immature clinginess.
I prefer to draw it in the same comparison as Chloe's interest in Clark. I hate the fact that she kept a file on him and checked up on his birth parents. Total invasion of privacy. Lex may seem to be more 'stalkish' but that's because he has more resources than she has. Chloe would have done more if she had them too. To her, she's not doing any harm and it was only to satisfy her innate curiosity. But when she realises that her work could hurt Clark, she did not betray him, no matter how dire her situation may be. That's a friend. Not a perfect friend but at least someone trustworthy enough. Lex goes one step further. He not only protects Clark but also the people around him (his parents, Ryan, Kyle - a guy that Lex doesn't even know but got him a doctor anyway.. all for Clark's sake).

In respond to leaping lucas


Dude, that's not love in ANY form. That's a selfish act. Lionel loves Lex, yes, that I agree. But only to the extent of having Lex not killed. He drugged Lex and have him restrained and roughed up in a prison-like environment, not for Lex's sake but for his own. He didn't want Lex to rat on his past misdeeds. What's love got to do with it? Got to do with it.



Yes, Pa Kent needs a slap at the back of his head. But Clark didn't end up being paranoid like Pa Kent. He took it upon himself to tell Pete without consulting either his parents. So this bit of Kent upbringing did not affect Clark's trust in people. He isn't 'fessing up to Chloe and Lana because he himself decided not to. Not because Daddy forbids it. Other than this, the Kents have brought up Clark beautifully.


I have to WORD this. I didn't get why the Kents would turn their backs on Lex at that time. If it were in the first season, it's understandable that Pa Kent would prefer to have nothing to do with the Luthors. But as of right now, the relationship between Lex and them seems fine, accepting Lex's invitation sit with him at his wedding, the compass gift, buying back the farm. I really thought they have finally accepted him. However, I'm willing to overlook this as a writing hitch, considering 'Shattered' is too beautiful.

Who knew I would be spending New Year's Day fussing over a bald guy..

The Kents in L&C were much older and less protective, they lived far away and pretty much left Clark to his own decisions. Of course it helped that the Dean Cain version was a good twelve year older than the one in Smallville and doesn't to be protected as much. They only came to Metropolis when Clark was in extreme trouble and usually to lend support and give advice and let that Clark make his own decisions.
But I still think they would have done anything for Clark, they would do the right thing but never at the expense of their son or exposing him to the world.
That's something every Kent incarnation has always had, the ability to lie about Clark, protect him and counsel him. It never changes even if the become older, younger or different.
The ones in Smalliville are on the extreme scale of that, more protective, more inclined to lecture.



I agree about Shattered because Jonathan would rather cut off his arm than believe anything Lionel says. Clark wasn't in danger so it wasn't even about sacrificing Lex for Clark. They just beileved Lionel for reasons I'm not sure of and it reinforces that assessment that they aren't the perfect people. It might be the writers gorgetting about Phoenix where the Kents accepted Lex into the family.

But then again they've never been portaryed as being the most perfect people. Jonathan lurches from hostility to genility and right back (he was all of that in one episode). Martha used to be spunky until S3 where she now defers to Jonathan to extreme proportions.

As for finding them more evil than Lex, he hasn't even done anything truly evil yet (we will know when he does). The Kents' might not even even come close with their own brand of loyalty.



I think there's an element of the Kents' teaching Clark about being sure who tells all. Clark's a stubborn boy, he will listen to his parents but in the end he will make his own choices. Sometimes he never tells his parents and just does what he thinks is right, Stray, Ryan, Exodus, Shattered.

His decision not to tell his friends is a combination of his many things
fears of their reaction (he tests Chloe and Lana in Visitor),
fear of what the world does to people who are different - Ryan and everyother FOTW who has been railroaded into a lab or asylum,
and of course probably the most important the fear of endangering them. For this reason he lets Lana go and sticks to that decision even after she pressures him. All he had to do have her was to tell her (something he's wanted very badly) but he still doesn't.

Of course Clark's nature doesn't help matters, he's introverted. He will prefer to deal with his problems by himself rather than endanger anyone else.



I really don't think he's going to be lonely as Clark Kent because by the time he meets Lois he would have learnt to let people in (but it would still take years before he even tells her about him) but as Superman, Kal-el there's a chance he might be lonely especially as he's doomed to outlive everyone.


Lionel's love is the kind that leads him
to remove a part of his sons memory because he wants to control him,
he pays a woman to worm her way into Lex's life then betray him,
he sleeps with his son's girl friends,
he drugs his own son.

That's love of a poisonous kind and I see a total difference between that and the Kents'. Jonathan's love is tough love (re: Exodus) because he holds Clark to higher responsibility than anyone else, but Lionel's is of another dangerous level. The kind that makes Lex run whenever he sees Lionel coming.


By the way, anyone has any ideas who Clark is saying this to, "How could you do this to me?"

Judging from the anger in his voice, I think it's Lex.
ETA: Or Eric as he sucks the powers out of him.

Any chance Lex is still hallucinating the part where he says "I'll never forgive you for this!"? If Lex did indeed "know all along" that Clark was an alien/freak/etc, and didn't seek to exploit or expose him, I have a hard time believing he'd now ask Clark to tell his doctors that "Yep! I have super powers!" Even if it meant his freedom. Maybe they've just succeeded too well in making Lex a sympathetic character because I can't quite get my head around that. (Or if you don't believe in a sympathetic Lex, a fairly intelligent Lex would want Clark's secret powers for himself and not just give them away to doctors.) So is Lex still stoned out of his gourd or is there something else he can't forgive Clark for? ("I told you to bring my pajamas and you didn't! Bastard!!!")

At the same time, I can't imagine the circumstances in which Clark would really let Lex be kept at Belle Reve, especially in this season where he's New and Improved Mature and Responsible Clark. He knows Lex was drugged and set up and is basically a prisoner. Did he just let Hootie go free after the arm-twisting? Did he let the sniper go free after he got Edge's address? All that should be enough to get Lex out of there.

I like the Lex/Chloe comparsion because Lex and Chloe are smart enough and have the resources to find the info they need on their own but Lana's journey in Season 2 was like Lex's in Season 1. They thought they witnessed Clark miraculously save their lives and they both wanted to know how. The difference of course, is how they went about trying to get Clark to tell the truth. Lex and Lana both asked Clark for the truth but when he didn't give it to them, Lex went off to find information for himself and Lana continued to whine. Not only did Lana use the Lex's "relationship with secret is doomed to fail" line from Tempest, they even had a Clana version of the Clexian CPR scene. I'll stop talking about Season 2 now because it gives me headaches and

TOPIC: Methinks Asylum will be the beginning of the end for the Clex relationship and I'm not talking about what I've seen in the preview either.;)

I think it should be noted that Al does say that Jonathan's behavior DOES contribute to Lex's slide over to the dark side. Also remember Pete remembers an incident during an episode in S1 where Chloe's trying to finish her homework assignment of interviewing Clark and talks about how once Clark shoved a kid through a door or something. He didn't send the guy to the hospital but yeah, there was at least one incident.

And yeah, things are getting mighty rifty.

Just chiming in to say that Lex's line " I'll never forgive you for this" could be directed at Lionel. Just like Clark's "How could you do this to me?" could be directed at Chloe.

Remember, SV trailers tend to be extremely misleading.

He says "I'll never forgive you for this, Clark!"

Ooops! Hee. Boy, do I feel dumb now! But I'll chuck my stupidity down to the fact that I'm still very hung over from last night. Heh.

No worries. You momentarily gave me hope, so I had to go check. But no... it's definitely directed towards Clark.

And though I'm a lurker, I'd like to say this is a fabulous conversation. I have to agree with leaping lucas on this one. The tragedy is that Lex could have been a good man. Lex as we see him still could be, and that's what makes Smallville so damn fascinating and heartwrenching. But we know their destinies are intertwined. Sitting on opposite sides of the scale, as it were. One only rises on the fall of the other. One has to be sacrificed in order for the other to make it out morally, emotionally, and physically intact. Lex is the one who gets sacrificed. I don't blame Clark for that, but I can't quite bring myself to blame Lex either. His curiosity in Clark is completely understandable to me, and I doubt I would have been any less vigilant in seeking out the truth of what I considered to be my salvation. I don't think that negates the deep affection he has for Clark, but Lex Luthor is a truth seeking personality type (NT in the Myers-Briggs test). Anyone out there who shares this classification knows that the lure truth is very hard to deny, even when it hurts people you care about. And there is no doubt in my mind how much Lex cares for Clark.

This situation was built up around and had many contributing factors (Lionel, the Kents, every bimbo who further shattered Lex's ability to trust). It's fated. I look forward to "Asylum". but my heart aches to see this relationship unravel.

De-lurking from flu induced coma to say WORD!

Lex: Yeah. They're an Interesting family. Don't you think?

Our New Year's Eve was DAYS ago, so I'm well and truly back on board now. Just in case y'all thought I've become particularly pathetic.

kwerkee quirked


Depends on your definition. If being paranoid is hearing things that aren't there, then I would have to say yes, Clark is paranoid. He hears Lex condemning him in his dreams and when in Shattered Lex tells Clark "you're not even human" we all heard something amounting to a worshipful, divine epiphany and Clark only heard more condemnation. I think Clark has often accused Lex of things way ahead of the evidence, urged on by the ringing voice of his father's paranoia.

clarkenwell went on


I agree that in the Dean Cain version he was more mature, but as this series goes on, as gut-wrenching as it is, I feel the writer's are sacrificing the Kents integrity to preserve the public's fondness for Lex Luthor. I really wish they'd think a bit harder and try to come up with a way for all parties to just be swept up in the ill-fated tragedy beyond their control -- not make me distrust the Kents for their culpability. I can accept that they will do things that they are not proud of, illegal things, to protect their son. But once they sacrifice one life for another, I can't accept it any more.

Put it this way. What if, say, Clark had somehow been implicated in the crimes of those Kinetic freaks. The ones that robbed Lex's vault. Clark is charged and convicted of the bank robberies and could potentially be sentenced to 15 years in prison. Lex has evidence that could clear Clark, but he refuses to come forward with it because his secret files are part of a ploy to best his father and get him out of his life forever and that's too important to him and he doesn't want to risk that information coming out.

We've all watched Lex for a couple of seasons now. How do you think he'd handle it?

We've seen the lengths Lex goes to to protect his friends in previous episodes. I can only believe he'd come up with some way to clear Clark and still protect his secret.

Unless we see some evidence that Clark and the Kents are working hard to come up with some way to clear Lex and still protect their secret, then they will forever be tarnished in my eyes and Lex becomes the default hero of the drama.

Cyb said


I'm with Cyb here. Clark is the proto-Superman. Unless we see some evidence that, when all else fails, Clark will sacrifice himself for a friend and not the other way around, then he will never deserve to be Superman to me.

lexualhealing predicted


Word. I loved Asylum, but I gotta admit that all through it those capital "R" Rift vibes were coming through loud and clear. But please let it be because Lex is ensnared in a web and no-one can reach him -- not because the Kents sacrificed him just because Jonathan is afraid of spiders.

Euphony harmonised


Exactly! Oh the exquisite tragedy of it all. Watching is like needles in your eyeballs, but you're powerless to blink. But let Cruel B. Fate be the guy with his hand rocking the scales, don't let Clark Kent be the one who leaves Lex swingin' in the breeze.

I don't think that this is very comparable. If Clark's secret is leaked, he'll suffer far worse consequences than Lex in that scenario, no matter how important that information is to Lex.

In Clark's situation, worst-case scenario, it could be a matter of life and death. People find out he's an alien, they might want to have him killed, i.e. the events in Calling.

And yet, the evidence doesn't up that statement.

Clark's secret has leaked many times and his parents, Pete, Lex and Clark himself have all had a hand in plugging the leak.

For three years fans have speculated that Clark's secret leaking out will spell his incarceration, experimentation and perhaps even death, and yet it's significant that all this befell Lex first.

I don't think you can argue that Lex's struggle with his father is not also a life or death situation, because we've seen it with our own eyes.

The potential for disaster in Clark revealing his secret to his closest friends has thus far been disproved, and is still in the realms of speculation fostered primarily by a foreknowledge of an alternate version of this story.

-TrevaciousGuy

I've always kind of wondered about this line because, um, they're not really an interesting family. He's a farmer, she's a farmer's wife. Both with no suspicioned superpowers to speak of.

Is it possible the writers have Lex irrationally investigate the whole family (rather than just Clark) not only to allow for events such as the blood stealing fiasco but also to cut down on the gayness that would be a solo Clark obsession?

I guess another more Hoyay friendly way to look at it though would be that Lex is so engrossingly obsessed with Clark that he thoroughly investigates anything or anyone in his vicinity.

The events in Calling don't back that up? I think that episode pretty much established that there are those who would fear Clark and who believe that killing him is justifiable. Again, I'm only stating worst-case scenario. Just because so far it hasn't come to that (Snideface excepted), doesn't mean that it won't. The Kents, Jonathan specifically, understand this, which is why they stress such importance on Clark keeping the truth from his friends.



I don't believe that Lionel would go this far, especially in light of the recent events of Shattered. He'd rather see his son broken and in an asylum than dead. True, Lex is there because Lionel put him there, but the fact remains that Lionel couldn't bear to kill him.

keekee8000, Lex also knows about MamaKent's "miraculous" recovery in the hospital, and a lot of weird events tend to take place on the Kent farm as well, so I don't think it's completely irrational for Lex to be so interested in Clark's family.

From leaping lucas' post from a couple pages back:


There's also the fourth scenario where Clark exposes the conspiracy behind Lex's induced insanity. But I suppose that would be too easy/rational for AlMiles. No, we'll probably end up with Scenario One (which I could get behind if only for all the potentional angst that could be drawn from that storyline).

Euphony declares


This started me thinking about the circumstances that lead to 'Shattered'. Like I said, my only gripe is that Lex would not leave Clark's secrets alone.
'Weird' friendship. Kawatchi caves. Blood vial. Lionel's sharp enough to recognise Lex's obsession. So it was indirectly because of Lex that he got curious about Clark, too. Lionel asked Chloe to work on Clark. Chloe wanted out, started digging up Lionel and found out about his parents' deaths. Which led her to an alliance with Lex. Lionel knew Lex's close so he drugged him so noone will believe what he says. (Which reminds me, how does Chloe fit in 'Asylum'?)

I'm not saying his curiousity will lead to his downfall. Lex has got enough on his plate.
Contempt of the people around him.
Betrayal of the women who bedded him.
Deaths of the women who nurtured him.
Torture of the man who raised him.
These are the things beyond his control. I can see why Lex would go 'evil'.

However, his incessant curiosity is the thing that he CAN control no matter what any tests say. Clark's his ONLY friend. Why doesn't he cut him some slack?

I look at it this way, if this person is my true friend, he would leave my affairs alone. It's not like he's suspiscious and thinks I'm out to hurt him. I'm not one of those gold-digging lovers or unsavoury characters. And he knows it. So what right has he to go around my back, checking up on me? Just because he's curious? I saved his life, for goodness' sake! That should account for something.

Damn.. it just hit me - this can be applied to Chloe and Lana too.

lexualhealing ponders


Really? I thought it started way back in S2 during the invasion of the Clana.

Seriously, I'm curious. You didn't explain and I would like to know how it starts, please. It's pretty much given that Lex will have his memory wiped at the end of 'Asylum', thus will have no idea how Clark 'abandoned' him there in the first place. So if the rift starts up on Jan 14, it would mean Clark's initiating the rift. Why? Because of guilt?

leaping lucas wrote


That was what 'Leech' was about. Eric got Clark's powers and his own parents were freaked.

Jaded482 came back with

WORD. We don't even have to think of fictional characters. Look at RL. There's that Bengali Singh who got killed because he was mistaken to be of another religion just cause he wore a turban. People do get scared irrationally.

ETA: That is not to say I'm backtracking my statement that it would be better off that Lex knows about Clark. I still stand by that but not with Lex finding out on his own. But with Clark being open to him. Only because, among his friends, he's the only one who can protect him against people like Lionel. No one else has to know. ESPECIALLY Lana.

And an alien in your midst will course a few people to get jittery. Unless of course he suddenly swoops in saves people, is peaceful, nice and kind. People worship him like a God and before you know it Superman is born. It does also help that no one knows where he lives, so he's pretty much untouchable.

But a Clark Kent that people know is an alien is always going to be in danger and so will be the people close to him. All it will take is one suspicious sqiunt from him and the kryptonites come out.

There's a very good reason he creates the Superman persona.

Jaded482 wrote


What I meant to say was, you said:


Clark's secret has leaked, and he hasn't suffered far worse consequences than Lex -- so far. In that way, your statement wasn't supported by the evidence. The speculation about the consequences of Clark revealing his secret to Lex are more about 60 years of comic canon than they are about anything revealed in the Smallville series so far.



But don't you think that for Lex this is the proverbial "fate worse than death"?

Clark is a curiosity to science, unique, a freak. So his greatest fear is to be pegged out on a lab table for years while they carve up bits of him to put in a centrifuge. I'm sure, given the option, Clark would rather die.

Lex is a character who prides himself on his intellect and his ability to unravel lies and find the truth and the freedom to control his own destiny. To rob him of his ability to think and reason and to take away his self-determination is the ultimate horror for Lex. To drug him and reduce him to a 'drooling idiot' in an asylum is his greatest fear, as he told Clark in Shattered. A fate worse than death.

I continue to be mystified that after recent events people can still maintain that Clark so obviously has more to lose than Lex. It just isn't supported by the evidence. What more can you take away from someone than their friends, their family, their freedom, their life and their sanity? For either character?

Great discussion. Don't know how on topic it is though...

Here's a spoiler doing the rounds. Lionel will be found in an uncompromising situation with a pair of lacy knickers, a bottle of 75 year old cognac and Jonathan's favourite cow "Nelly".

Discuss.

I just have to defend him here. (Because I'm very similar to Lex in this respect.)

If the accident had happened and then that was it, no more miraculous events, I could see where his constant prying would be completely out of line and fairly incomprehensible. But... he's seen Clark do a lot of miraculous things. And he's seen Clark act pretty out of character ("Rush" & "Red"). And Clark has told him some pretty obvious lies. For someone who is naturally predisposed to want to learn the truth of situations (partially because of a particular personality type and partially for his own defense, having been raised to believe that even those closest to you may turn on you at any point), it is asking a lot for Lex to just drop it. In fact, I don't know who would be able to drop it if they had the resources Lex has. Lana constantly bugs him, Chloe has investigated him, Perry risked his life to prove Clark's powers... the only reason Pete didn't investigate him is because when he saw too much to be explained, he was told. When Lex sees to much, he is given another flimsy excuse (or allowed to be carted off to the looney bin).

I know I'm sounding like a Lex apologist, here. And would it have been the right thing to have let it drop? Sure. Obviously. And that's why Lex is not the hero of this piece (or isn't meant to be). But it's such a human flaw to want to know the truth when presented with a mystery. It reminds me of a Star Trek: TNG episode (yes, I am a geek) in which strange occurence are happening all over the ship and Captain Picard is trying to figure them out. He figures out that Data knows what happened, but Data refuses to answer and tells him that he must stop with the investigation or he will put the ship in serious danger. In the end, they nearly all get killed because Picard must know the answer. Picard tells the alien force threatening him that it is human nature when faced with a mystery to try to solve it. Its lure is irresistable.

Excellent discussion! We can always move the nonspoilery parts of it to the Smart-Assology thread.

Oh, is this a reference to the whole Batman/Supes thing?

They all bug him one way or the other. He can't do anything without any of them wanting to know, why, how, what. He should have turned around and said maybe I will stop saving your asses then I wouldn't have this problem. Lana was the worst in S2, followed by Lex and by the end Chloe had joined in.
And this doesn't even take Lionel into consideration even after Clark saved his sorry life at least twice.
But it was probably because of Clark's affinity to saving people and his initial recklessness that everything started.



To be fair Lex never saw as much as Pete. Pete saw the ship in all it's glory and knew immediately what it was and events deteriotated to such an extent that he had to be told and Clark made that decision by himself without consulting his parents. IMO the Pete fall-out from this will happen.

Maybe this is what Lex should have done in S1. Gone to the Kent farm and accidentally stumbled over the ship, then Clark would have told him. No need to waste money investigating.

Taking my response over to the "Smart-Assology" thread.

Maybe he didn't see as much, but the essence of the decision he made with Pete in Duplicity is the same as the one he made with Lex in Shattered. Both had seen too much.

And my original point was really just that I don't doubt Pete would have begun to investigate Clark had he not been told. That pretty much anyone put in that position would. It's a tragic but altogether human flaw that contributes to Lex's downfall, and I've never judged him too harshly for it because I would investigate my own mother if she had done the things Lex witnessed Clark doing.

kwerkee



But that kind of puts a different spin on the Smallville history.

In the beginning Lex was hell bent on investigating Clark. He came up with proof, went to Clark with it, professed his loyalty and asked to be trusted. Clark asked Lex to let it go. Lex then saw contradictory evidence and decided to leave it alone. And then -- he did. For a character like Lex, I thought it was a pretty big step. He vowed not to do any more investigating and to devote himself to protecting the Kents.

You've got to remember that when Lex began investigating the alien spacecraft, he didn't know what we did, that they were all interrelated. Inexorably, it led back to the Kents. Lex stole the blood, put it all under lock and key, and didn't do anything with it.

So when you say that if Lex was a true friend, he would leave Clark's affairs alone. Well, that's what he did. He can't UNKNOW things, but he did make every attempt to prevent others from knowing what he did. The exception is Helen, and both Martha and Lex were tempted into confiding in her unwisely.

Lex's recent investigations have been about Lex, not Clark. Lex's new theory is that HE is special. HE is the one with the ability to cheat death. So to ask Lex to stop trying to unravel that mystery is the same as asking Clark to stop looking into Kryptonian history.

Lex knows that his investigations have hurt, even killed other people. But he can't let it go.

Clark knows that his investigations have hurt, even killed other people. But he can't let it go.

Again, those scales, that balance. Neither character strikes me as deserving their fate, you can't deny them self-knowledge -- but one will always suffer for the other.

Euphony


Yes, but again, I wanted to say that Lex's interest in the day at the bridge and the alien mystery is not merely idle curiosity of the rich and famous. It is itensely personal.

If Clark had demonstrated that he has the ability to leave information alone when it could hurt others then we could say that this is a fault peculiar to Lex. But it's not. They have both used illegal means to gain information about things that are important to them.

I think I see the equation as much more of a delicate balance than most other posters.

True, I think Lex's interest in Clark is entirely understandable. I back pedalled slightly because I don't like looking like I'm overly biased to one character. I get that it would have been better for Lex to have let things drop. I get why people say this is a major flaw of Lex's. But the truth is, I completely understand Lex's need to know what happened, and am in complete agreement with you.

I don't think Lex was destined to be a villain. I think fate led him to be one half of a villain/hero equation. Both men are flawed, and as I said, I believe circumstances are set such that one only rises as the other falls. One could only become great at the expense of the other. Lex had more stacked against him to be sure. But he could have been a good man. He could have been a kind, compassionate, just, and loyal leader. And if Clark's decision to take Red K is any indication, he could have been a very bad man. He could use his powers to serve only himself and have been a menace to the entire planet. He might have been had he been locked away and mistreated-- given reason not to believe in the good of mankind.

No... I'm with you on the balance thing. It's one thing I think Smallville got right. Got better than the comics, actually.

And by Visitor we all knew that he hadn't. If anything the contents of the room had increased in between Clark seeing it in S1 and Visitor. Add the stealing of Martha's information and the blood.
Seriously he wasn't altruistically devoting himself to protecting the Kents.



Lex would never had just let that blood sit in his safe. It would have been analysed at the first opportunity, he's curious isn't he? What happened next and I give him credit for this was that he had a moment of conscience and confessed to Helen, who took the blood back.



I need this clarified because I'm not sure what you mean by he can't let go. What episode (because his investigations usually only happen episodically and then it's onto the next FOTW or villain) did this happen? I really don't think he's been investigating a friend all season, never mind anyone else.



Clark doesn't share that trait of needlessly investigating friends who aren't a danger to you out of curiosity and a need to satisfy your own personal quest. If you notice most of his investigations are when he's dealing with a particular FOTW.

Didn't he tell Helen that he didn't have the blood analyzed?

Yep. He never had it analized. He gave the blood back to her almost immediatly after he stole it.