In the thread for the latest episode, I made reference to the Daniel Palladino drinking game. I was just joking, but what the hell. I put together a quick one.

• Take a sip. Whenever someone makes a reference to a punk/grunge/metal band or song.
• Take two sips. Whenever Lorelai or Rory makes a comment about someone or something that is so mean spirited, it would offend Simon Cowell.
• Take two sips. Whenever the actors are uttering dialog or doing things that are so corny that you want to cry for them.
• Take three sips. Whenever a joke is overused to the point where you're muttering "Ok, that's enough."
• Chugalug. When the overused joke bombed from the get go.

Two when a random townie shows up and says one line.

drink a shot for every troubadour appearance

Was tonight's episode written by Daniel, by any chance?

I'm hoping it wasn't because my local paper tells me it's going to involve the return of Jess's mother to Stars Hollow. And as bad as Daniel is at writing Lorelai he's even worse at introducing new characters. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who feels that way either.

I'll watch it in any case, but...(do I really need to finish this sentence?)

Yup, he's tonight's writer.

And wasn't it a fine job he did, too? :)

Yes, it was. He staved off (stove off?) the shark pretty well.

It was a lot better than I expected, Indk. Enough to make me suspect that Amy did a more thorough rewrite than she usually does on her hubby's episodes.

ETA that I'm inclined to go with "staved off", pathwatch.

Me, too, Brahmsian, although as a quondam English teacher I can say that either is technically grammatically correct. So in that case take the James Kilpatrick route and go with whichever is more pleasing to the ear (or eye), and that, for me, would be "staved off."

Dear Amy and Daniel,

(yes, I KNOW the writers don't read the boards. Duh. I'm just borrowing loosely from the "Dear JJ" thread over on the Alias boards).

Thank you, thank you, for finally putting Luke and Lorelai together. We all know they're meant to be - we've waited patiently for 4 years! That said, if you screw this up, I SWEAR I am never, EVER watching this show again.

Ever.

Got that?

There used to be a "Dear Amy and Daniel" thread over here a long time ago, bluepig1. I wonder if Pamie would object to someone restarting it.

Was just thinking that! I'm sure Pamie won't object to it.

i actually think people still post there, but I bet Pamie wouldn't mind. all it really is is talking about where you think the show should go. that topic could go anywhere.

I'm a little saddened by the following news. The Gilmore Girl staff has traded one Buffy alum for another.

Jane Espenson, one of my favorite writers from the old Buffy bullpen, has left GG to serve as an excecutive producer for Tru Calling. The news note calls it a developmental deal, so the possibility of Espenson getting her own show is some solace.

Rebecca Rand Kirshner will be replacing Espenson for next season. Here's the report from Ain't It Cool News. It's confirmed by the IMDB. Kirshner worked on Las Vegas last season and also wrote for Freaks and Geeks. That said, I didn't care for most of her work on Buffy, and felt that there were quite a few clunkers that came from her pen.

Actually, while Ms. Kirshner did have a couple of clunkers, she also penned one of my all time favorite Buffy eps ("Tabula Rosa") and the very underestimated (IMO) "Hell's Bells." I also have a soft spot for "Tough Love" but that may have more to do with my Spike love.

Not to get too far off topic, but "Tough Love" falls into the clunker category for me. I liked "Tabula Rasa" a lot; "Hell's Bells" had its moments, stemming primarily from the long-standing relationships between Buffy, Willow, and Xander, while the main plot line didn't too much for me.

Jane's style seemed to fit Gilmore Girls well because she tended to have a lighter comic touch and a more far-reaching linguistic preoccupation. I liked the GG eps that Jane wrote ("Chicken or Beef" and "The Reigning Lorelai"; it's interesting how she got two plot-critical eps to pen), and I'm sorry that we won't get any more.

I don't remember any of Kirshner's episodes showing such a similar witty flourish; TR was my favorite episode of hers, and the comedy in that was much more situational than it was verbal. I'm sure that ASP or DP can think of some nutty townie related plot that that can give to RRK, but I'm not very optimistic about this addition.

I can see your point. Well, I guess we won't know for sure until we see an episode of GG from her. In terms of Jane, I loved her writing on Buffy. I know a lot of people are not fans of "Chicken or Beef" but I thought it was a pretty good episode. It was obvious it wasn't written but ASP or DP or one of the other writers who have been with the show for a long time, but I thought there was certain aspects about it that were good. When Lorelai gave Kirk a kiss on the cheek it was such a sweet moment that we had never seen Lorelai show toward him. I crack up when Lorelai grabs Taylor and yells at him "The hoops!."

In the media thread I just posted a link to a Variety article about all season four scripts being turned in late. This is especially intriguing given that the industry trend seems to be more toward getting scripts in on time. Given that the dialogue in GG is always well-written, and the show as a whole usually so, I'd hate to see time pressure work against the high-quality process they have now. That said, I'd hate it even more if what happened to The West Wing happens to GG (last-minute scripts being one of several factors leading to Sorkin's ouster from TWW).

Is the lateness simply an aspect of ASP's "auteur" style? Perhaps everything gets touched up/rewritten before filming, or even afterwards (there were comments upthread about choppy editing this season, etc.). I also wonder whether the public airing of WB's concerns over what they saw as poor execution of Rory going off to college -- something that TV columnists/critics ran with all season, unfairly IMHO -- was a contributing factor.

I just noticed that the episodes are written and directed by scores of different people, but the premiere and finale are always written and directed by ASP, with only two exceptions. It seems as if Amy doesn't mind other people writing episodes once in a while, but doesn't trust them with the biggies.

Actually, a spoiler source confirmed a couple seasons ago that ASP purposely turns in scripts late to preclude any tampering by higher-ups.

Hehehe. Smart woman.

Except where those scripts might have better input if there were editors.

People are fearful that the WB will ruin the show, but I have a personal feeling that ASP gets a little too full of herself. When the show began, she had some guidance I guess with a good director and some other good co-writers.

I think when some of those people left it made her a little more self-indulgent.

Question for all you in-the-know types:

Generally on a TV series, and specifically for GG,

do TPTB have the season's plotlines written out in advance, and then assign the various episodes to writers with instructions to get the characters from one point in the season to another,

or,

is it done some other way?

(When I wrote the first scenario, above, it became semi-obvious to me that it could only work that way....but only semi-obvious)

Please, enlighten the old Moosie. TIA!

I'm not an in-the-know types, and I don't play one on TV, but...

I remember reading in an interview (although I can't find it now) that ASP doesn't tend to plot the seasonal arcs too far in advance. For example, the whole Max storyline wasn't plotted ahead of time; the show decided to run with it when they were pleased with the chemistry between the two.

How far in advance plots are planned depends a lot on the show. I know that Joss Whedon tended to map out whole seasons of Buffy and Angel at the beginning of the year, and he planned some arcs seasons in advance.

MoosieMc, the process you describe summarizes Whedon's style of show-running, but I've come across stuff that describes ASP's method as much more extemporaneous and dictatorial; she's been described as more disorganized in meetings with her writers and less open to suggestion from her staff (I think there's a post on this point somewhere in the "Gilmore Girls in the Media" thread).

I can't remember where I read it now, but ASP mentioned she plans the season finale first and works backwards. Aha! Found it saved on my computer:

eleventy & lennox

Thanks!!!!! I'm on my way to media to read more.

[You know, almost all of S4 was written by Amy and Daniel- one or both of them wrote 16 eps out of 22. It looks like there a few new writers on board this season. One is Bill Prady, who wrote "Tippecanoe and Taylor, Too." I think he has some learning to do- like making Lorelai less selfish- but I think he has the Gilmore-speak down, and his jokes were generally funny.

Who else is still with the show? Most of the great S1 writers are gone. Jane Espenson unfortunately is gone. I enjoyed the two episodes she wrote, especially "The Reigning Lorelai." I think she tends to make Lorelai and especially Rory more compassionate than other writers do. Is John Stephens still there? Love him for writing "Forgiveness and Stuff" and for being the writer to officially get rid of Tristan! I'm also pretty sure Sheila Lawrence is still with the show. Her writing is dece. She wrote "Afterboom" and co-wrote "In the Clamor and the Clangor."

I want to write an episode. I'll have lots of Lorelai and Luke making out and cuddling. Rory and Paris doing interesting stuff at Yale with Marty. And Dean getting his ass kicked by Gypsy.

My cyber-fiance ladies and gentleman! He is the best! Sweetie, you should write an episode. Gypsy kicking Dean's ass? Classic. Marty and no Logan, perfect. And the Luke and Lor mackage and cuddleage, no words.

Oh my dear, I even go as far as have Emily kick Christopher's ass back to Boston while Richard just smiles and goes: "That's my girl."

outtabreath, prepare to fight for yore man....how can I not fall for him when he talks like this??

Summer InA Bowl- Word! about Jane Espenson and John Stephens. I loved the way JE wrote Lorelai. And I will forever be grateful to JS for F&S.

If I were a writer I go for less filler and more actual plots we care about. And the mothership would finally take Dean back to his planet.

There was a person in another forum who had talked to one of the "other" writers in the past. Aparently, working on that show if you're not Amy or Daniel is a bit of a bad experience. Writers meetings are pretty disorganized, and anybody who's not a Paladino doesn't have a lot of input at all.

I believe in Season 1 and Season 2 there were a more communal experience. I think the other producers and writers had more input, and I think they are part of the "hidden factors" behind the show's initial success. See the first few pages of this thread for details. Many of the "Favorite Episodes" weren't written by Amy or Daniel. I think when Joan Binder Weiss left it was the last bastion of sanity.

The Paladinos are interested in a more sitcom feel to the show now. Which I think has slowly hurt the show. I actually think the more control they get (like self-directing their episodes) the worse things will become. There's less classic lit reference and more off-the-cuff topical references (which will likely date the show a lot), and supposedly they turn in scripts late to prevent "network interference"--well perhaps they NEED interference, as the president of the WB stated last year.

Really?! He said that? Do you have a link to that; should be well worth a read.

I'm actually looking forward to read what the other writers have to give us this season. I actually liked Bill Prady's style, and I'm hoping AS-P and DP gives these other writers some freedo. Looking forward to what they have to contribute. I second SummerIn A Bowl's question: wheo else is on the writing staff this season?

He didn't say "They need Interference" directly, but the subject came up back in January.

http://www.gilmore-girls.net/news/2004/nyp011604.html

He was correct. They really screwed up the whole college thing for Rory. I wonder if maybe they should have eschewed the concept of "real time" and kept Rory in High School for another few years--have storylines progress slower.

GG has gone up in the ratings--however if the emotional core doesn't return I'm fearful it will dip again.

Yeah, that's the one thing when you are creators and the main writers on the show. You have to give your co-writers an outline of what you intend to do with the characters and move the season too. It gives the other writers a chance to move to that next point, but you also have to pay attention and make sure they don't end up chaning people's name or making it that a mayor that once existed, doesn't exist and then you have boring ass plots at college.

Moosie, Readster's my man. Get your grubby paws offa him! I'll fight for him.

Did you read above? <swoon> I love it when Readster gets all het up about the chaff. It's hot.

Oh, outtabreath, I live to swoon you.

Not necessarily. People like bad television as much as they like good television. They can just keep watching for different reasons.

Hey, I just found out something that may explain why it was Bill Prady who wrot TATT. He was one of the California recall election candidates!

That explains everything. I wrote about his platform last year.

Edited to move this to the Meet Market thread.

That's wicked funny. Thanks for the link, Pamie!

The fact that he was a sitcom writer tells me more and more that the Palladino's are heading for more sitcom territory with their episodes and their new writers.

We will see...



Depends on what you mean by "bad". If you're talking about a show that's designed to be over-the-top like Melrose Place, or if your judging standards of a show being bad by some quality judgement--I understand that, but a good quality show going bad and betraying the long-time audience is another matter.

I really don't think thousands of people watch a show just to cut it to pieces, they just leave, or if they stay they go through the motions.

Well, a lot of people seem to like the way the show is going now, based on the attention it's getting on these boards. I know that doesn't reflect national ratings, but it seems like a lot of people are now getting what they want from the show, or at least believe that they will soon.

I was reading an interview with Jane Espenson,, who wrote two S4 epsides, Chicken or Beef and The Reigning Lorelai, and she mentioned that ASP was a "tremendous Buffy fan." So I was just wondering, did ASP ever use any Buffy the Vampire Slayer references in the show? I can't recall any. I'm just curious because when someone like ASP hates or loves something, it sometimes gets referenced.

Well, she does seem to have turned Dean into a vampire.

Personally, I like to think of Danny Strong as a walking Buffy reference, but that's just me.

I've been waiting for a Buffy reference on the show for a long time, valny, and don't recall ever getting one. And I doubt one could have slipped by me without my realizing it. Unless, perhaps, it was a reference to something that happened post Wrecked, in which case my mental block may have done it's thing.

<"swooning" over to the door to let these two be alone, already!> The writers really should pay attention to the cyber-mackage around here and transfer it to the couple miL/Lions are waiting to watch. hee!