I personally was really hoping for some kind of change to the Spike Look at the beginning of this season. New wardrobe, new hair, something. He's been wearing basically the same look for something like 7 years now. However, I can understand in practical terms how the WB suits, in all their infinite (read: pea-sized) wisdom, don't want to mess with a known quantity.

I agree with Teenes: given how ME set up Spike's hair to be sandy blond in canon, having JM revert to natural color wouldn't have worked.

Part of that known quantity is the coat, which is why I try not to take it too seriously as what it symbolically is: the trophy from a Slayer kill. I remember reading in interviews that JM commented on how soaked with fake blood and other stunt detritus the original coat was by the end of Buffy's run; I'm sure it will take a while for the new coat to acquire a similar patina. Given what a point the WB made of reconstructing it, I don't think the coat is going anywhere soon.

Seven? It's probably closer to twenty-five.

It is kind of interesting, though. Every other character has gone through several different wardrobing and grooming phases. Spike hasn't. At some point, it stops being a wardrobe and starts becoming characterization.

Yeah, but there's a difference in terms of process between what's necessary to lighten brown hair to a sandy blond color and bleaching it platinum. Given the side effects that JM endures due to the overuse of peroxide, I'd think they would give the poor guy a break after all these years.

As for Spike's duster, I agree with those who think it's time for a supposedly reformed vampire to give up wearing the trophy he took from one of his murder victims. It's a new show, and a new dynamic. There's no reason or excuse for it that works for me.

I think it was meant in real time ie JM has been essentially in the same costume for 7 years.

By giving a significance to the duster I think the writers have made it hard to justify Spike's continued wearing of it. However, it seems to be part of the look that the studio wants so I don't expect it to disappear anytime soon. I'll settle for his just being able to take it off from time to time. Same with the bleached blonde hair. The look is so well established I don't think the WB would stand for it being tinkered with now.

snip

The ironic thing about the bleached hair is that it actually ages JM, rather than making him look like the sexy young vampire the WB shelled out all that money for. Letting him go back to his natural dark brown, or even a modified honey blond, would make him look a good ten years younger.

I don't know why the WB thinks that changing Spike's hair color or wardrobe would make him lose fans. Sure, they had the Felicity debacle when Keri Russell's shorn locks resulted in shorn ratings, but that's because she looked like a Q-tip with the short 'do. JM would probably look much better with an updated look, which could only help his character's popularity, and thus up the ratings.

I think the look of Spike is so established that they don't dare mess with it. In the final season of BtVS they did try and change the wardrobe yet ended up going back to the coat. I don't think they'll ever dare even tinker with the hair colour.

Besides, Spike didn't wear the duster for most of "Buffy" season 7, and I didn't see hordes of Spike fans saying "No duster? That's it, I'm not watching anymore!"

I've often wondered if the resurrection of the duster during BtVS S7 didn't have to do with James's signing to the WB for S5 of AtS. Didn't they happen around the same time? Would make sense, since the network seems so attached to "classic" Spike, that they would insist he be returned to form before coming aboard their show.

But it is silly to assume that Spike's ferociously loyal fanbase would be put off by a change in look, considering all the internal changes to the character the fans have weathered.

Of course, it's quite possible that now Spike's corporeal again, the show will spend a little on wardrobe, at least. He wouldn't stop for new duds during the race for the Cup of Perpetual Torment in "Destiny", but now that he's in possession of an actual corpus again, I can see him hitting Melrose for a little shopping. It's not like he has much else to do.

The duster returned on BtVS long before the WB agreed to renew AtS so I don't see a connection myself.

Heh. Love the imagery...

Now that I think about it, they have changed Spike's look on occasion in the past (other than in flashbacks) - but for laughs.

So much as I would like to see the duster go, I wonder what new look Spike could cultivate that wouldn't look strange or laughable either on the "punk" himself or on the 40-something (albeit young-for-his-age looking) actor who plays him. Maybe some blue collar chic... work shirts that have other people's names on them. Eh. I guess the t-shirt and jeans look is a classic.

Oh well, another conspiracy theory shot to hell.

I think you're right that as long as Spike exists in the Jossverse he'll have the bleached hair, though I'm still hopeful for at least minor changes in wardrobe, a la Season Six of BtVS.

I remember Amy Acker saying something in an interview about the great designer stuff they were all getting to wear this year, so I guess the budget cuts didn't extend to the wardrobe department. Perhaps we'll see Spike in Prada or Versace before the year is out, after all.



Like I mentioned above, Prada and Versace both make sleek, sexy menswear that doesn't look too club kid or too corporate. Versace, in particular, does a good job of introducing a rock sensibility without straying completely into Sex Pistols chic. If the wardrobe department put a little thought into it, I'm sure they could come up with a look that towed the believable line between Angel's severe black suits and Lorne's neon couture.

That's very true, and part of why I find it so sad that they won't let it go. Keeping the exact same, bleached-blonde helmet hair only highlights to me the fact that his face just doesn't look as young as it used to.

I'm sure they won't let the color go, but they could at least let it get a slightly more natural style. In the later seasons of Buffy, I always thought he looked so much better (read: younger) when they let him do the messy/curly thing.

As far as wardrobe goes...I very much hope that they'll let him wear a variety of other things post-"Destiny."

Ooh, yes, like the sexy post-Buffybot coitus hair. Now, that was some quality bedhead.

Topic? Um, I recently read on one of the Spike boards that according to people close to the show (cast, crew, etc.) things are looking rosy for a Season Six of AtS. I'm going to be curious to see how TPTB spin out the Angel/Spike tension for at least another thirty-odd episodes. It's going to get a little tedious if Spike just keeps hanging around Wolfram & Hart needling Angel every chance he gets. Plus, it doesn't make much sense for Spike to stay on Angel's territory unless he has to, when they clearly can't stand each other. He's got the whole world to play in now, and he's chip-free and can handle himself among demons and humans. What compelling reason could they give him for staying around L.A.? The writers are really going to have to work to convince me on this one.

I suppose Angel could reluctantly offer Spike a job at W&H, but I honestly don't think it would be in character for him to do it, or for Spike to take it, given their history. To hook this into the previous two pages of discussion, the thought of Spike all tricked out in a suit and tie, complete with a briefcase and wing-tipped loafers, gives me the shivers. The bad kind of shivers.

I wouldn't mind if they had Spike wear a more natural looking blonde,rather than the white hair he has now.

Versace? Wow. Yes. And if the wardrobe department can't figure it out, I nominate you, Chase82. I'll even draft the consultation agreement... You've obviously got a good sense of fashion and more sense than the bean counters at the WB about what would work without throwing the fangirls into a tizzy.

::blushes::

Why, thank you, quirkygrl. Honestly, I think the network really has the wrong idea about what his fans care about when it comes to Spike. As long as Spike looks good, and is still sort of rebel yellish in terms of style, I honestly don't think most fans would give a damn if his hair was light or dark blond, or if he wore a leather duster or leather pants.

And really, they could dress him in sackcloth and ashes for all I care, as long as he doesn't return to the whiny passivity of most of S7 BtVS. The characterization this season has been on the shallow side for the most part (barring "Hellbound" and "Destiny"), but at least Spike has his snark back, and that means a lot a lot a lot.

Spike's hair was quite tousled throughout the last few eps of S5 and early S6 as well, and I quite liked it. I know JM's hair is quite ridiculously curly at times but I don't know why they need to gel it back quite so stiffly all the time. OK, fine that's how he died so that's how he was as a ghost, but I hope he gets to change a bit now.

And I did think the passivity of S7 was a necessary stage for the character to go through, but it is good to have more snark in Spike, IMO. I just don't think they've quite achieved the right balance yet for the character (though it's been getting better). I know he's away from Buffy and around Angel, which makes all the difference in the world, but the jump from overly sensitive passive Spike of S7 BtVS to overly shallow snarky asshole Spike of S5 AtS has been rather extreme. I hope they give us more signs that it's a front, Spike's protection against Angel, over time, b/c otherwise it's just inconsistent characterization to keep with the desired image, IMO. Just like putting him back in the duster, even going so far as to recreate the damn thing after it was sold, with very little explanation in the plot. I get the putting on the coast as armor/costume in "Get it Done" but like Dave says, over time unchanging costuming like that does become part of characterization and they've done very little to address the coat as trophy issue IMO. I honestly don't think we're really meant to think about it.

Oh, and Chase82, what I'm hoping is that S5 will play out the long-standing tension and rivalry between Angel and Spike, coming to a culmination around the finale, and if S6 indeed does come along, instead of drawing out that tension, they'll deal with the more positive sides of brotherhood, having the two of them build a new relationship. Two years of Spike just being around to needle Angel is quite ridiculous, but "Destiny" gives me hope that that's not the case. My guess is Spike sticks around LA for now to figure out who's trying to play him and Angel, and to deal with the whole universe out of thwack thing (if it's true) and the Shanshu prophecy. If he's supposed to be a "champion" now, he can't very well skip off and let the universe go to rot (even if he's not a champion since it being off balance affects him too), and I doubt he or Angel particularly appreciate being duped. There's going to be tension, and plenty of it, but I can't see them keeping Spike as a one-dimensional pain in Angel's butt for the whole season if they're going to make him such an integral part of the central story, y'know?

Chase82, your wardrobe post intrigues me! Do you have a link to a picture of a Versace outfit so I can see what you mean?

From your lips to Joss's ear. Two seasons of 1-D snarky Spike would erode even my bedrock faith in the character. I think ME has no choice but to explore the more brotherly aspects of the S/A relationship, or else there is no reason for Spike to be in LA post-"Destiny."

Exploring the shippy aspects would be even better, but I doubt we'll get anything overt. Which, given what the did to S/B, is probably just as well.



ETA: Ebay has a lot of men's designer wear, including Prada and Versace. A quick look around there will give you lots of examples of the kind of looks I'm talking about.

Well, we've already sampled aspects of the A/B/S love triangle and the mutual jealousy between Spike and Angel in Just Rewards and Destiny as well as at the end of BtVS in EoD and Chosen. I'm sure this theme will be revisited later in the season, because it's a big part of the rivalry and resentment these characters feel... That said, I'd rather it not be overt.



Indeed. The less we have to remember or see of S/B the better, IMO. ;-)

I’m a little confused at Spike’s behavior in last night’s episode. In Chosen he told Buffy that she did not love him yet when given the first opportunity to go to her he does. The only reason he came back, according to him, is that he felt his exit was too grand for him just to show up at her door step. He also said that he did what he did for Buffy and to save the World.

At the end of Chosen I had a different interpretation of what Spike had done and why he did it. IMO, he stayed in the Hell Mouth to see what he started through. It now sounds as if he stayed to show off.

I took it that he knew she didn't love him, and that while his first impulse was to go to her (which many people posted they believed would be his first impulse), he took a minute, and remembered that things between them would not be what he wanted. She doesn't love him (at least not the way he wants her to), and he realizes that she needs time on her own, even if he wasn't part of the cookie dough speech. But, I'm not sure he wanted to confess all that to Harmony (or to anyone), so he came up with the (rather lame) "grand exit" excuse.

Yeah, I really thought that his first impulse was to go to her and then reality hit him like a ton of bricks. It's not like he'd share those thoughts with Harmony. Maybe with Fred, but not Harmony. I thought he was just putting up a smokescreen. I'm not sure that was the intention, but that's what I'm going with here.

Very little of Spike to comment on from last night but I'll try anyway. I was very happy to see Fred's reaction to him when he first showed up and when he said he was leaving. She acted like she really cared and was concerned with what he did. It's been so long since another character has acted like that toward Spike that it was good to see. I was a little afraid she just looked at him as a scientific experiment and would ignore him now that he was corporeal again. Glad to see that wasn't the case. I always like watching him needle Angel so loved hearing Spike say he had someone waiting for him and taking the viper when Angel said he could have any car but that one. However, I was a little confused about his whole turnaround on the Shanshu prophecy. Last new episode he was willing to fight to the death for the Mountain Dew but now Angel can have it. What was that? Was he satisfied with just beating Angel for once?

However, I was extremely dissatisfied with his "reason" for staying. What was that? As sissykay said earlier, I also got the feeling he stayed in the Hellmouth to finish what he started, not to impress Buffy. I saw him as finally realizing there was something good that he could accomplish. As far as what he thinks about Buffy's declaration of love, I'm a little confused on that. During Chosen, I thought he didn't believe she loved him. My hubby saw it differently and said she did but Spike said she didn't to get Buffy to leave the Hellmouth and save her life (and I'm the Spuffy shipper--go figure). If one takes that viewpoint, Spike could really believe that Buffy loves him and that explains why he keeps making comments around Angel. Now, Spike could be rethinking this opinion since time has passed and Angel keeps saying Buffy doesn't care for Spike. I think the real reason Spike didn't go is because he's too insecure. If Spike thougtht Buffy meant what she said, then as long as he stays in LA Buffy loves him. If he does see her and finds out she didn't mean it, he has nothing left to cling to and nobody who loves him. It's been shown previously how desparate Spike is for love so this kind of makes sense if you really work at it. JMHO.

Paris Luv said:



Perfect. They should film this and show it every Christmas.

And yes, he probably would have confessed this to Fred, but no way he was going to do it to Harmony.

The mega-reason is that they can't get Sarah back to the show, let alone afford to film anything in Europe, but it is nice that Angel is keeping track (loosely) of the proto-Slayer. She and her gang could be a major ally in a pinch.

I agree with Paris Luv that the real reason he did not go to Europe was because he's insecure and scared. I know posters have said that his explanation was lame (and it was), but I don't think the audience was meant to believe it. It was just another example of Spike shooting a line of BS to save face and to hide his insecurities.

But when did any women's rejection stop him from pursuing? He followed after Dru when she left. All season 6 on BtVS Buffy tells Spike she doesn't love him and he keeps coming back for more abuse.

I agree with Paris Luv's interpretation but Spike quiting on something he wants seems to be out of character for him.

Upon further reflection, I agree that Spike's reasons as stated to Harmony were a cover. But for the same reasons stated above by many of you (thought Spike had stayed in Chosen not just for Buffy, that his actions and words in Chosen and other episodes indicated that he had accepted that Buffy didn't love him), it bothered me a lot that he actually left to go to her at the beginning of the episode, only to come back later with those stated reasons. Even if it was insecurity or whatever that actually drove him from going off to Europe, the fact that he even ever thought he could or should blows the idea that Spike had actually matured and accepted things out of the water. Now, instead of the possible interpretation that he actually is thinking of allowing Buffy to live her life, that he thinks it might be best for them to move on, it just seems like his actions are predicated solely around the idea that he wants her to think well of him/doesn't want to be with her if she doesn't love him. And that bugs me.

Thought the Spike/Fred interactions were kind of nice but something just felt weird to me about it. It felt just a little like JM didn't know what level on which to play it, or something. It was just odd.

And I rewatched that last scene and Spike was nicer to Harmony than I originally had thought, though I wish he hadn't gone back to talking about Buffy after realizing that she was talking about him taking her for granted. I guess I don't necessarily expect him to apologize (though I wish he would) but it was a bit self-centered to keep talking about his own topic after that. Nice of him to try to reassure her though.

With Dru it was a different scenario in fairness. They'd been together for 100 years, and her love for him was a given, no matter if they were split or not. He knew her, and he knew all he had to do was torture her till she fell for him again. Simple!

With Buffy, the only thing he knows for sure, is that he messes it up time and time again by saying or doing something stupid that offends her. So I think he was just plain scared to go see her again. As it is, he can bask in the memory of her gratitude and affection.

If we jumped from, say, the BtVS episode "Normal Again" to AtS Season 5, then that would be true. But we saw his persistance and intensity drive him farther from what he wanted, leading to him getting ensouled. In later S7, he offered to leave, which isn't the action of someone obsessed with Buffy but rather one who has given up on that obsession. I think many of the issues that lead to his obsessive nature have been worked out. Others, as "Destiny" shows, are still in play.

I agree with you on this. It is a disappointment because I did think he had learned something in Chosen re: your whole existence being about whether you can get the girl to love you. Guess not.

Grrr, I hate the post-eaters!

ITA with the "it was all a line of BS" theories floating through this thread -- I just hope ME agrees with it as well.

I've also noticed something else in the Spike/Harmony relationship so far this season. It was especially evident in the bar scene last night, but I've seen it before. If you discount what he's saying to her, and just watch JM's face, he seems to be looking at her in a way that says he understands and sympathizes. I don't hear affection in his words, but I see it on his face. And it does make sense -- since Spike was the "Harmony" of S4-S5 BtVS, he can empathize with being "the wacky neighbor."

But again, this wouldn't be the first time I fan-wanked something ME didn't bother considering....

I think in Chosen, Spike definitely made his grand gesture selflessly and understood that Buffy didn't and wouldn't love him the way he wanted. But I think it's easy to be all noble when you're dying.

Now that he's back, I'm not very suprised that he hasn't let go of his romantic notions even though his not going to Europe shows he knows the truth.

IMO, AA has better chemistry with JM than with JAR, AD or JW (Knox). Of course, there are very few people JM doesn't have good chemistry with, but I could enjoy seeing something develop between Spike and Fred more than just friendly "coworkers"...maybe not a romance per se, but perhaps a flirty friendship.



I agree to both points. Spike thought it was the end for him and he was able to let Buffy "go" - that is, his own need to convince himself that she was in love with him, and at the same time, do something grand before he turned to dust. And now that he's no longer dust or incorporial... he has a chance to start over and rethink his options.

I also agree with those who've said that Spike was trying to save face int he scene with Harmony at the end, and didn't go after Buffy because of his insecurities. Spike tends to bluster when he's feeling threatened. He does it a lot around Angel and I think it's possible all his comments about going to see Buffy were at least partly intended to force a reaction out of Angel. When Angel didn't give him the reaction he expected, Spike had to really think about what his reasons were for going and came to the conclusion that Buffy's likely reaction to his presence was by no means certain.

If so, then good. It seems to me like he's growing up a bit, even if it's in fits and starts. The next step, is probably admitting the truth to somebody, instead of covering his ass with lame excuses to save face.

Edited to fix my lousy spelling.

Don't tell me they're adding another clast member! There's too many already, leaving the really cool ones without screen time. And who is this Someboyd, anyway?

....

Nevermind.

okay i have a few points
1)SPIKE ROCKS
2)The bleached blonde hair does not age JM
3)SPIKE ROCKS
3)Spike is the best thing about angel.Sp[ike/JM is gorge whatever age he is.
4)SPIKE/JM IS A GOD

Spike rocks? Why would anybody want to spike rocks?

Bleh, I swear David Fury (of all people) can write Spike better than Craft & Fain can. I felt like "Harm's Way" was utterly clueless in all things Spike. Why does it seem so hard for the ME writers to wrangle his personality down?

This is just a mini wish list:

1) I hope he'll wear something new at least five times in this entire season. Sure JM is pretty and I don't mind the bleach, but constantly seeing the same thing every week gets boring.

2) I'm begging that he'll have more to do this season than be Angel's Shanshu competition. How does that develop a character? At all? S6 of Buffy had better development than this year (so far), and that's saying a lot.

3) Why can't the writers make him open up to people more and/or just tell the truth? Making excuses (like in the last episode) just further degrades the character. Just have him tell the truth about Buffy, and move the hell on already, please!

It all sounds to me like Spike is the shiny new toy that the studio bosses wanted but nobody knows how to play with. What a pity. As a UK viewer, I have only seen episode 1 so far, but I am thoroughly spoiled by reading all about it on here (*grins*) and it doesn't read good.

What is frustrating is that this could have been a major opportunity to develop the back history between Angel and Spike, and build it into a multi-faceted and absorbing explanation of a very complicated relationship. WHY is Spike so different to Angel? Is the reason the demon or the man? Guess we will never really know.

Spike doll didn't come with directions?


They have done this somewhat already.

I honestly think there's very little life left in the Angel/Spike dynamic. For me, "Destiny" (along with previous glimpses in "Darla" and -to a lesser extent- in "In the Dark") really sums up their past together.

Spike has been effectively set up as a foil to Angel, his opposite number in a variety of ways: Angelus educated William in corruption, Angel reformed before Spike did and in a significantly different way.

Whatever happens now, imo, should find a new way of contasting the two. I don't really need any more flashbacks or heated exchanges over Buffy and souls. If Spike is going to play an effective role on AtS this season, he needs be interesting in some way, and - most importantly - his actions and characterization need to shed some light on Angel. And then he needs to leave.

Perhaps he hasn't actually quit as such. This may simply be a way of giving him a more in-character reason for wanting to compete with Angel for the Shanshu. After all, if he goes back to Buffy now, what has he got to offer her? She didn't love him before he sacrificed himself to save the world, so now that it turns out he didn't sacrifice himself after all, what exactly has changed? Whereas if the Shanshu prophecy does apply to him, then once it's fulfilled he has got something new to offer Buffy, and a way of getting rid of some of the baggage of their previous disastrous relationship. I think it would be a positive development plot-wise if Spike had a better motive for competing with Angel than the bratty brother desire to take something just because Angel wants it, and I think it could be quite interesting if their understanding of and sympathy for each other increases, but they remain antagonists because they both want the Shanshu so badly.

Word. That's exactly what I thought during Destiny. It seems like all that's going on this season is simply a direct spelling out of things, more subtly stated looong ago. And I'm not only talking about Spike/Angel interaction.

But, anyway, I feel that writers sort of painted themselves in a corner with Spike's character. So far his existence on the show has been fairly pointless. As Angel's antagonist he doesn't really work, IMO, because, at least the way I see it, Spike vs Angel conflict has always been more about Spike. Look at Angel's previous antagonists: Darla - Angel feels either guilty, either angry or responsible for her. More often than not all three. Holtz - again: guilt, responsibility, blah blah blah. Connor - ditto. In all these cases Angel cared about those people and/or what they stood for and therefore their presence was important to the show.

In comparison to those above, though, Spike to Angel is pretty much nothing more than an annoyance. Well, okay - there is sort of a rivalry because of Buffy, but, well, Buffy is not even on a show. And I'm not even touching the Shanshu thing.

Point is, Angel doesn't care about Spike and sees no reason for him to be here, Spike doesn't know what he's doing here, so how am I supposed to find his presence interesting and reasonable? Even as a comic relief Spike worked for me in two or so episodes, tops.

Frankly, I thought that giving Spike that damn Shanshu after Chosen and bringing him back as human on AtS would have been fairly interesting, because there would have been a possibility to explore Spike's character in a totally different light and make his story matter to Angel. Plus, there could have been an exploration of the whole Shanshu thing -- i.e. is it a gift or a curse, what does it mean etc. as well. Besides, having in mind Gunn's "development", it would have been nice to have a totally normal, not-enhanced human character. I honestly don't understand why ME failed to choose this route. Did they think it would have be too obvious?

In any case, they have to find a way of making Spike's character important/interesting/relevant, and they have to find it now, because it's almost mid-season and character development is still steadily revolving around zero.

My biggest concern, though, is that they'll keep playing "safe" and not developing Spike in any way. Which is a shame, really. I mean, if you have a character, then at the very least make use of him. And, no, by "make use" I don't mean "stuck him in as an eye-candy".

I'm so happy with Spike tonight, and not because he nearly pulled a Smashed part deux with Lindsey. There were glimpses here and there in "Destiny," but I hadn't seen Spike being this close to his original form in years. Here's hoping that the writers don't muck it up in the weeks to come.

That's why Spike being Angel's antagonist doesn't really work outside some amusement. My favourite interactions between Spike and Angel were in season 2 Buffy, because it hinted at a very complex relationship. Once it's totally spelled out, it loses its power. I agree that they've roughly covered the 20 odd years they knew each other in the 19th century and its repercussions. Darla's quite another story, and I'm not sure about how much that was to do with guilt.

I'm still bugged by the fact Wes called Spike 'the second worst vampire of all time.' Against what? Darla, Dru, the Master? They were much worse IMO. I just about buy that Angelus was the worst vampire recorded because of his peculiar obsessive tendencies with his victims, but Spike? I mean, he hinted that he had sexually abused teenagers, but apart from that wasn't he "all fists and fangs?"

I like Spike as a character actually, but I don't want to be screwed by the writers here. He turned out not to be such a bad vampire (pre-soul). And previously he seemed to be bad mainly with the encouragment of "his ripe, dark plum" Drusilla. It's part of his charm that he is ambiguious. He changed for Buffy too. That's why his character is interesting.

Just chiming in to say that I loved Spike last night. It's like he was really back for the first time. I totally cracked up at him going off on the girl in the alley about walking by herself in the dark in high heels. It seemed like something old BtVS season 4/early season 5 would have done. It was also amusing to hear that he was trying to pick up some of the women he saved by inviting them to grab a bottle of hooch and come listen to some Sex Pistols. Again, something I could see him doing.

I really liked his interaction with Lindsey. They had good chemistry. It will be interesting to see how this plays out as long as it's not just dropped. I do hope, however, that Spike is not made out to be a complete fool. He's always been portrayed at being fairly good at reading people so hopefully he'll wise up to see he's being played. I would love to see him figure this out and go to Angel with the news. Then, they would have to work together to stop whatever was being planned -- something similar to the scheme they had against the necromancer but played out more longterm.

Actually, that was one of the things I liked best about the performance last night. JM captured Spike's confusion... "is he or isn't he" being played? He has the sense to be suspicious but finally succumbs to Lindsay's ego stroking/guilt tripping because what Lindsay tells him does pan out.

Wow! There's my Spike! So nice to see him again. Loved his lecture to Stupid!Alley!Girl! That was classic Spike and such a nice contrast to Angel. I also enjoyed his confusion with Lindsay. It rang true and I can imagine that after all this time, it was very enticing to be thought of as a hero and someone who could do good for its own sake. At least being thought of that way seems to appeal to Spike's romanticized notions in some way. I also hope he isn't completely hoodwinked. Hell, if Angel is getting suspicious and I've never thought him the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree...

Good for Spike on calling Wes and Gunn on the whole "doing good from within" thing. It is stupid when you say it out loud.

Fangirly observation: Gosh, love the coat, but it was so nice to see JM without it for a bit. Could he have sat any more "mine's bigger than yours is" though? Hee. Loved it. Totally Spike.