I was watching ‘Triangle’ the other day, and had some random thoughts:

Mulder thinks what happened to him in ‘Triangle’ was real – that it was a time warp, a rift in space - that he really was there in 1939 – and Scully was there too. But, in ‘The field where I died’, Mulder states that in a past life he was a Jewish woman in Poland when the Gestapo was there (WWII), and Scully was his father.
So – I’m thinking she couldn’t be both Mulder’s Polish father and an American woman working for OSS in 1939?

Plus, in ‘Synchrony’ Mulder quotes Scully’s thesis to say that each universe only can produce one outcome and that the future can’t be altered. He seems to have forgotten this in ‘Triangle’ where he says to the 1939 Scully:

But interesting enough CSM was a German officer both in Mulder’s past life (?) and his ‘Devil’s Triangle’ delusion. Of course neither of those fit with the teaser in ‘Apocrypha’ where CSM was a very young man in a suit (working for the state department with Bill Mulder?), coming out from Washington to interview one of the surviving sailors of the submarine in 1945….
I think I’ll stop there, and not go into Frohike’s version of CSM’s life, or how CSM could be a young man in 1945, and still be very young in 1963….

Also? I think I'm watching too much x-files….

To me, TRIANGLE didn't really happen, no matter what Mulder thinks. TFWID, though, I've always put more stock in, maybe because I just like the episode. But TRIANGLE, to me, was pure folly through and through; The X-Files meets The Wizard of Oz. Not bad or unenjoyable, just sort of tangential...

Triangle - did it happen? Did it not? Personally, I don't really care, I just love the ep.

But OK, no, I think Mulder was delirious, and the 1939 stuff was all in his head. Although, it was a nice touch to have his jaw be sore, where 1939 Scully hit him. Makes me want to keep an open mind, no matter how much I don't believe any of it was real, you know what I mean?

As for the various ages/apparitions of CSM, I think the man has enough evil clones to populate any timeperiod and/or country that he so desires. CSM without an evil twin or ten? That's just no fun!

As for FIELD TRIP, Mulder's little pouty "I'm always right" rant wasn't written in by accident; the whole episode sort of depends on him saying that because we see that they need each other's POV to make their investigations work; when Scully seems to believe Mulder, he's incredulous and it's her belief that starts to wake him up. And when everyone else is pitching a conventional solution to Mulder's "murder", she's upset and anything but convinced. That's why I think FIELD TRIP is such a good episode, it plays that up nicely without hitting us over the head with it. Plus, it's that whole touchstone idea which is good.

So, in short, I take the handholding at the end of the episode to be an "I'm sorry" to Scully, recognizing that he needs her input on these cases as much as he needs his own...

I agree. He knows, she knows, we know. But still. He could be a little nicer in the first place, then he wouldn't have to aplogize by holding her hand afterwards.

Oh, wait! Of course! The whole thing was a ruse to get them to that handholding stage. Sneaky...

I guess what irks me with that whole "who's right like 98.9% of the time" thing is that if anyone said it to me, I'd tell them they were an asshole, even if it were true. Scully probably has a little more accepting tact than I, but I guess it just bothered me more than her.

Even though she's not a real person and the show has been over for almost two years and I know this.

funnily enough, i have been in a position in work recently whereby i had a similar conversation - as in, i was in M's position - and i had to say "please trust in my judgement and experience and just back the f*ck off". admittedly i was not talking with a partner of six years' standing, but i can understand that frustration.

i think the "98.8%" remark is less important than the "perfunctory dance" remark, in terms of "let's just accept the fact that we have different approaches and probably should shelve the personal remarks and respect each other's professional opinions and cut to the good stuff." i thought it was a good speech, and remember thinking at the time i first saw it that it was quite refreshing to hear something serious coming out of his mouth. it's not half as self-righteous as "i wait for a miracle every day" from Revelations.

I am resurrecting this thread because I don't think enough love was given to one of my favorite episodes, Milagro . I just love the fact that this man's imagination was so vivid and profound that the character he created actually came to life.

I am a theatre graduate and in one of my theatre history classes I read Six Characters in Search of an Author . This episode reminds me so much of that play. Does anyone else know what I am talking about?

I, too, was incredibly moved by "Milagro." That moment when Scully is examining the pendant she's been sent while talking to Mulder on the phone, and the slo-mo starts with the voiceover as she tucks a strand of hair behind her ear... I was like, yeah. I like girls.

Scully causes that reaction in a lot of people, including people who did not formerly like girls.

I loooove Milagro. I always thought it felt really long, but not in a boring way, but in an 'every moment of this matters so you feel it' way. I just thought it was great in every way. I think it's my favorite S6 ep.

I love the way Mulder acts so unhinged because he suspects Scully might be interested in someone else. Good characterization IMHO; very dog-in-the-manger of him.

Yeah, that's great too. I also loved the way GA played the creeped-out-and-repulsed-but-also-disturbingly-intrigued thing.

As well, did anyone else think that it might not be a coincidence that M&S were so casual and flirty the very next episode? (The Unnatural) I hoped in a 'shipper way that it might be because after the whole "Agent Scully is already in love." thing that Mulder realized that it was him and Scully realized it was him and then felt much less need to be repressed? But that episode was so 'shipper-tastic that it hardly needs anything more.

I remember my best, best Phile friend (and still one of my best friends period) had driven to Michigan from Boston to visit me the weekend that episode aired. We were both big shippers and seriously woke up the entire dorm complex with our screaming the night Milagro aired (what with the "Agent Scully is already in love" thing).

Looking back, 1013 gave the 'shippers a TON with that episode, (and, come to think of it--that whole season) but I only realized it in retrospect. At the time, it didn't seem like so much because I had wanted so much more.

I always figured the reason M&S were so casual and flirty in The Unnatural was because DD was having such fun writing witty, funny, cute dialogue that he completely forgot to keep them in character.

Not that I don't enjoy it, though.

OR, could it be that DD had written their characters so well that they both felt totally, totally comfortable playing it?

Okay, yeah, probably not.

Actually, I have a pet theory that the nookie began with Milagro. Which is not to say that I think Mulder ripped off Scully’s bloody shirt and had his way with her immediately following her rather traumatic experience, only that the episode seems to be the turning point in their relationship. I think what makes me think this more than anything are Padgett’s last voiceover words, which have a prophetic ring to me:



Presumably that which he could not receive was the experience of love in general or Scully’s love in particular. The implication is that by sacrificing himself, burning the book, and saving Scully’s life, he was “giving” the opportunity to experience that love to M&S. These words in conjunction with the scene of Scully clawing at Mulder’s back, in probably the most outwardly emotional display we had ever seen from the character to that point, have always given me the feeling that a momentous change had just occurred.

Prior to this episode, M&S had for the most part had a pretty rocky relationship in season 6, with the arguable low point being Mulder’s assiness in One Son. The hatchet seems to get buried in Milagro, with their first outright hug since the movie. After this episode, there is a noticable decrease in tension and an increase in affection between the two. It begins, as mentioned above, with the very next episode, and carries through the remainder of the season and into season 7, when of course we all know the nookie was in full swing. So in addition to enjoying this episode immensely on its own merits, I also have a soft spot for it because, at least in shippy terms, it’s The Key to Everything!

Good work, Greenshirt! I'm buying me some of that theory now myself! I just rewatched MILAGRO because of all this talk here and I enjoyed like I always have. My only quibble is when the killer comes to talk to Padgett at the end, it's way too much and starts to feel like padding to me. But that scene with Scully on the phone and the voiceover about the titian hair? Classic and so beautiful. All in all, a much better shout-out to fan fiction than TRUST NO 1, that's for sure...

I can definitely see that, Greenshirt. I'd believe their physical relationship began any time after the end of Milagro--it's the last scene, and of course "Agent Scully's already in love" that clinches it for me. And it's partly because of that that I don't find the Unnatural flirting too out of character, especially because they've flirted before (like the Detour forest scene). Heck, it's nice to see Scully smile occasionally, the poor thing. Though she should look into eating real ice cream. BTW, does anyone know of any kosher for Passover ice creams?

So, am I like the only living being on the face of the Earth who really doesn't like Milagro?

I find it too... what's the word? I don't even know. It's just too. It tries to be so deep it drowns itself. And that "Agent Scully's already in love"? Puh-leeez! Shipper as I am, that line makes me squirm.

Maybe the ep's just too fan-fic-y? Maybe it's too much like a bad novel. Mostly it feels like it takes itself so seriously that I can't. If that makes sense to anyone but me.

And it's not the beating heart thing that bothers me, either, except for the ick-factor - and we've all seen way worse on this show.

The only thing I do like about it is the hug at the end. And of course GAs acting, but that goes without saying.

yes. bad phile. tsk. ;)

It's not the fact that it's flirty that makes it out of character, in my opinion. It's the whole snappy comeback thing. The whole scene in the beginning when they're all quippy. Mulder and Scully just don't talk like that. I like the scene because it's cute and funny, but it just doesn't feel like Mulder and Scully.

i agree - it's very unexpected but still appealling. it's similar to the bath-tub scene and the final scene on the graveyard soundstage set in Hollywood AD. they talk like normal people, and Scully gets to giggle in that very sexy way. i like to think that DD was trying to write to their strengths as performers, as it's much more naturalistic than the more formal exchanges which we are accustomed to. it's like the friendship they could have had if neither of them was totally absorbed in his/her own hang-ups.

Nope. :) I have never been able to warm up to it either. It alternately irritates and bores me. I feel like it treats Scully as a fancy prop, and all the stalker business turns me off. I wanted her to kick Padgett in the shins, not be limply fascinated by him. I know she's supposed to be conflicted, but, well, let's just say that *I* wasn't conflicted at all. <g>

Also, the fancy writer hoo-hah just annoyed me. And this is from someone who loved Adaptation and all the out-there writerly gimmicks therein. But it made me impatient, maybe because I hear enough about CC's madonna/whore issues in the mytharc eps. Chris, I know Scully's pretty, and I'm sorry she doesn't love you. Go back to writing episodes where aliens steal her reproductive organs, OK? It bugged me almost as much as when William B. Davis wrote a scene where Scully wears a low-cut dress and thinks CSM isn't such a bad guy after all. Give me a break, people. Write your damn Mary Sue fic on your own time.

And I'm a shipper too, and a Scully booster from way back, but for whatever reason the notes this one hits in those areas don't ring right for me.

However, everyone I know loves "Milagro," so, there you go, I guess. :)

"Unnatural," on the other hand, I love to teeny, tiny bits and pieces.

I'm not a big fan of Milagro either. But I actually like the shipiness, it's my Stalker!Fear that gets in the way.

I like Milagro overall because I love watching GA in it, but I agree with Kanel about the "Agent Scully is already in love" line. It felt sort of like too much, like the writers were pandering to the fans. I'm a shipper, but a masocistic one; I feel like after all those platonic seasons, it shouldn't be so easy as some MTOW character baptizing the ship in champagne.

Now that I think about it, I didn't really like Milagro much the first time I saw it. I honestly did not even remember that episode when I was reading through the names on the back of my DVDs.

So when I watched it for the second time, that was when it became one of my favorites. Between my first and second viewing was when I read the play I mentioned before. I felt that I finally understood an episode completely and was so excited because that just never happens to me!

I do have to agree though that the Scully characterization was not right on. Would she really be facinated by this creepy guy who is following her all over the D.C. area? I think not. Normally I would expect her draw her gun on him right there in that church.

Still, I guess I am able to discount her odd attitude and focus on the story of the character coming to life. I really should rewatch all of the episodes from beginning to end as much as possible and track their characterization to see when things go wrong. Wow, that is such and obsessive thing to do...I think I'll do it!! Woohoo..PROJECT!

See, I liked it more the first time I watched it than I do now. Back then, I felt so starved for M&S moments that I lapped up all of the Scully-in-love stuff, as well as everything else in the ep. I still do, really, but I can be more objective now about how 1013 was playing my shipper starvation.

I love "Milagro" as well, except for the oober-creepiness that is Padgett in his bed alone, shirtless and smoking...that makes me gag. I think it might be the facial hair. I don't know. ANYWAY-I actually think that this episode totally nails Scully's character, and you can see that in the ease with which GA plays her in the episode. I think that while she was petrified of Padgett's obsession, he was right in the sense that she was also flattered. I mean, Mulder although he obviously felt great affection for her at this point, never commented on things like-how pretty she looked and what not. As creepy as Padgett's Scully analysis was, I find myself totally agreeing with what he is saying about her, and how she must go through her life-having to be shut off from all that. PS-John Hawkes (actor who played Padgett) is now a FAR less creepy character on "Deadwood".

OK, Glasgow? Next time you're buying the coffee again.

Thank you, AAA, it's good to know I'm not alone!

Huge word to that. I first saw this when I was deeply in the throes of first falling in love with the show. It was also maybe the first time I watched an episode twice in a row, straight back-to-back. Usually I'm pretty immune to sports stuff, but DD got me with this one.
The opening scene in the LBO was just pure delight, although I do have to think that Scully was kind of out of character. I can rationalize, though, that they were in between horrible gloomy periods of angst, blood and alien invasions, and she was in a good mood that day. I found the scene on the bus, when Jesse L. Martin was talking about falling in love with baseball - "It was useless, but... perfect" - so incredible moving, with the humming of that hymn in the background.

What I like about DD's Scully is that she's very human. I don't know if it's informed by his knowledge of GA's personality or what, but he always lets her smile and laugh and loosen up a little. Plus, I will always love the visual joke of Gillian standing on a MUCH HUGER THAN NORMAL box to look out the window. Hee hee.

I never expected DD to write an episode so full of schmoop and sweetness. I thought his episode was going to be some Mamet-y action-adventure thing with a lot of ass humor and snide references to how lame the show was. Instead it was a quiet, nostalgic little fable bookended with absolute love notes to the characters. And the end, with the baseballs going up into the sky and turning into stars, is, to me, totally perfect.

I go back and forth on my opinion of DD -- sometimes dizzyingly so -- but I do love that ep.

Trivia thing that I read somewhere: Apparently DD's ex-girlfriend Maggie "Chaaaaaandlaaaaaaahhhh!" Wheeler happens to be an expert on old Negro spirituals, so he consulted her for the songs for this ep. Yeah, that's right, Janice from Friends is an expert on Negro spirituals. I don't know about y'all, but I think that kinda rules. Heh.

The things you learn on TWOP...

Come to think of it, DD used a gospel version of "Michael, Row Your Boat Ashore" for WILLIAM, didn't he?

I like Milagro because it's Scully-centric, but also because it's one of those rare episodes in which people actually respond to the elephant in the room: Scully's a hottie. It's refreshing when the characters seem to notice what is so obvious to us. As to Scully's reaction to the stalker guy, I too thought it was out of character, but not out of plot. Remember, what The Writer writes comes true, ergo, Scully's attracted to him because he wants her to be.

Bull's eye.

That's exactly how I interpreted it. Everything was being manipulated by the writer, so even though ordinarily Scully wouldn't be the least bit attracted to him, she found herself uncharacteristically intrigued.

I am a bit late to this, but I strongly agree with Kanel and As An Amoeba on the Milagro episode – I don’t like it either.

Heh. Exactly!!!

And even if that was the whole point; that this episode was presented from the writer/Padgett’s view, and everything that was presented was manipulated by him. And so Scully was out-of-character because Padgett (who presented her) was wrong about her - I still don’t like Scully out of character!

So there are at least 3 of us!

Oh yea! Milagro! My first topic!

SO, here's the thing...I don't necessarily think it was totally out of character for Scully to be somewhat attracted to Padgett. The thing is, it's sort of a rebellion for her (She's just trying to get his attention...only she doesn't know it yet...or whatever the line was)... She's intrigued by Padgett because, as scary as his stalker shenanigans are, it's also a "Damn, somebody thinks I'm hot" sort of intrigue....and she is not exactly getting this from Mulder....We've seen her rebel before, for different reasons (Never Again) and it seems that when she's into breaking away from her normal self, she does things that we wouldn't normally assume she would do...but I don't think it's out of character (In the end, if it's on the paper, and she's not posessed, it's not out of character). She's just flirting with this novel stimulus...and she's someone who supposedly hasn't gotten any in a long time, so it's not totally surprising....

And Mulder was jealous, and the words "Agent Scully is already in love" even through extremely cheesy--were priceless in terms of the reactions by Mulder and Scully. I know. There were no real visible changes...but there was definitely a reaction.

And the end. That was great. The end was great. And this comes from someone who really hated this episode the first time through.

Frohike and Pendrell thought she was hot! And they didn't have weird murderer guys from their imgainations walking the earth!

Kidding, kidding.

I do think the premise of "Milagro" is cool. I like the idea of characters in a story we're watching grappling with the concept of themselves as characters. (As I said, I loved Adaptation.) It's the execution that I didn't much like. I thought Padgett was a terrible writer, which didn't help -- maybe I've read too much bad fanfic, but "errant strand of titian hair" ranks up there with "strawberry-scented locks" for me in terms of Scully-hair-description groaners. And the whole thing is full of thesaurus words and purpley phrasing. I don't mean for it to sound like I'm some fabulous connoisseur of writing or something, but Padgett's writing is so awful that it distracts me. And maybe it's supposed to be like that, but if it is, I didn't get that. It's not quite bad enough to be funny, just bad enough to be...bad. It's Carterlogue at its worst, like the "Dearest Dana" shizznit or "we must take away that with which he can't live without."

Plus, I can accept Scully's being out of character, because she is in fact being directed by Padgett's writing. But her out-of-character character is so vapid and irritating that it makes it very hard for me to get behind it. If the point is to see Scully humiliated, that's something else, but I think the episode is trying to sell it like a romantic thing, like he's arousing feelings in her that she's helpless to resist. But all I see is Scully being manipulated, and to such a degree that she can't even do anything about it, or even THINK of doing anything about it. Scully isn't that way -- and I DON'T mean "sexual," I mean "tongue-lollingly helpless" -- and it bugs me to see her like that, even with the blanket excuse of "he's writing it that way." It just feels exploitative. And maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I can't help but be squicked out a little by the thought of CC and the other writers writing a story in which a writer writes a story in which Scully is irresistibly drawn to make out with the writer.

I can appreciate everyone's arguments about how Scully feels flattered by the attention, how Mulder never focuses on how she looks, etc. I think all of that makes sense. But for whatever reason, the stalker vibe, the terrible Padgett writing, the complete grossness (in my, obviously, extremely subjective opinion) of Padgett, the random goriness of the whole thing with the hearts (and so literal! Hearts, being actually ripped out! Love hurts! Got it!), and the fact that I can't separate it from CC's self-indulgent Mary Sue-ery, combine to make an episode that simply does not do it for me.

The one thing I do like is the teaser, because that is what writer's block looks like. Except for the part where he rips out his own heart. Sigh.

You've obviously never been to my writing nook.

AAA, that made so much sense it's scary. That's exactly what I think about Milagro but was always too sick&tired of the ep to think through. Thanks!

Hey, it's nice to know I'm not the only Milagro-disliker around!

And Slip, if I see you lurking around my apartment I'm calling the cops. :)

Hey, she is a Stalker - what would you expect..?

Well, you see, this is what's so great about the internet. Here we are, people who (for the most part), don't really know each other, discussing intelligently and respectfully.

No matter what anyone says, I love Milagro, but I can totally get how other people could hate it. It seems to me like it's an ep you either really love or really hate, because it's so different from what we usually see on the show.

Now The Unnatural, on the other hand, seems to be a universal favorite. A line a love is Scully's from the very end, the: 'Shut up, Mulder, I'm playing baseball.' one. But that ep just has everything; funny, sad, touching, weird, scary... Thoughts?

And a cute alien baseball player dude. Don't forget the cute alien baseballplayer dude.

Best part of the ep for me? At the batting cage, right before the first ball, when Mulder moves his hands on the bat, and Scully resists and says, "I'm in the middle." The way she says it is so cute.

It is a great episode. I'm sure I'd like it even more if I did have the baseball gene...

Special for KANEL:
http://xfphotos.fredfarm.com/season6/theun...ural/cap006.jpg
I saw "cute alien baseball player dude" on the street here in NYC once - let's just say he only looks better in person, if you can believe that...

Aww, thanks, ej! Yum. Anybody have a spoon..?

Yes yes yes. I LOVE this part. It's so familiar and casual and natural that it almost seems ad-libbed. And it's playful, and we never get to see Scully being playful. So cute. I love it.