If you’re going to give a character the ability to hear things said character shouldn’t be hearing, at least give said character something interesting/entertaining to hear. Smallville is a small town, there’s got to be loads of scandal.

HA!

I’m an avid lurker on TWOP forums, but I’ve never posted before, so please be kind. Before I start I just want to say that I have always been impressed by the insights that I read on these forums. I often wonder why the writers (with obvious exceptions) can’t seem to explore the depth and potential of these characters, while loyal viewers seem to do so quite easily.

(In my opinion) I understand that BTVS raised the bar for drama/comedy/sci-fi/horror/angst (etc.) on television and that it would be unfair to expect every episode of SV to match the Buffy episodes which are truly spectacular. However, I am most disturbed by the fact that SV DOES have the inherent potential to duplicate said spectacle. It is evident in every forum that there ARE characters/ plot-lines we are all attached to and there is so much more that could be done even within, or especially within, the boundaries of canon. It upsets me even more when TPTB dangle truly deep episodes, ripe with unexplored potential (say Shattered) which not only show depth remnant of BTVS, but that show me that SV could be so much more than a simply “enjoyable” show, only to leap backwards towards the “safe” and mediocre.

What always intrigued me about the Buffyverse was the underlying philosophies and mythos that were constantly being explored. For example, does power make you superior? Does everyone have a dark side? How could/ should you act when you feel your environment is crumbling down around you? These quandaries were dealt with week by week on Buffy and are innately present in SV, and instead of being explored, are brushed aside for melodramatic angst and, *shudder*, the power of the pink. All of these questions, and doubtless many more, have a place in the SV world. There are the philosophies of nurture vs. nature, hero vs. anti-hero, love vs. obsession, secrets vs. lies that could make for some interesting character analysis, but are of course, only explored on the surface and then easily dismissed. I think TPTB could, or at least should, be capable of giving us a deeper AND accessible character analysis, which Buffy succeeded in doing, while remaining emotionally available to the younger demographic they seemingly cater to. Ok- this post is officially too long. I’m certain that this exceeds the length parameters, but as this is my first post, I promise that I won’t ramble so long in the future. :)

Good post, Ophelia03. I agree with your points. There's a lot more beneath the surface that SV could be exploring but for some reason isn't.

One difficulty that SV has that Buffy didn't is that the characters can't really work together--at least not as the show is currently set up. With Buffy, you had the characters all working together toward the common goal of saving the school/town/world. On SV, the characters are scattered. You have Clark, Pete, and the Kents as the only people who can safely work together, because they're the only ones who know that Clark is Super. So this leaves Chloe, Lex, and Lana on the fringes. They get integrated into the storylines but--with the exception of Lana--it's often as an afterthought. In the WB descriptions of each episode it's plainly obvious whose storylines get tacked on--they're usually followed by the word "meanwhile" or "elsewhere". As in, "Clark must defeat the FOTW while pining for Lana. Meanwhile, Lex is struggling with his father and fighting for his survival."

The stories end up going in circles because there's so little room for development with the way things are set up. Are Clark and Lana really in a different place from season one? By this time in BtVS's run, Buffy had found out Angel was a vampire, fallen in love with him anyway, slept with him, dealt with him being evil, fought him, killed him, and saw him brought back to life. Clana, on the other hand, are still dancing their Boring Mating Dance of Going Nowhere. They're still making moony eyes at each other, still dancing around the same issues, and still boring as cold concrete.

There's a lot that I'd rather see instead of the Boring Mating Dance. If there has to be Clana, then why not explore the codependency and neediness of those two kids? Instead, they're held up as Doomed Thoulmates. Boring! And if Lana has to have screentime, why not deal with the repercussions of her killing a man? Instead, she's attacked by the next lust-driven FOTW, and it's business as usual.

Cyb- First off, your posts are always astute and HILARIOUS. I completely agree with what you said and if we absolutely have to suffer through the never-ending saga that is Clana, what could make it pseudo-interesting would be any sort of focus on the codependency, you sited, throughout their (sigh) “relationship.” Since this is a Buffy thread, I’ll try and cross-reference.

While I don’t think that Clana is REMOTELY as self-destructive as Buffy/Spike, we saw codependency adequately explored through Xander/Anya and to a lesser degree Willow/Tara as well as Buffy/Angel. What I’d love to see inspected is Clark and Lana questioning why they feel they are somehow lacking as individuals when they are not doing their “Boring Mating Dance of Going Nowhere” (HEH!!!!-loved that by the way :) ). My whole problem is that Clana is such a “uni-layered” relationship. By that I mean, we are expected to infer that Clark and Lana are “Thoulmates”, simply because we are TOLD they are. WTF!!!! At least on btvs there was depth between characters that slowly evolved without having it immediately and constantly forced down our collective throats. I know that the SV PTB are limited by the fact that Clark will eventually have to leave Lana behind (were that it already happened) however, it seems that they assume since this is a fact of canon, we have to see Clana as “doomed.” Not only do I disagree with this “star-cross lovers” portrayal, I think that they had an opportunity [now long-passed] to make this a poignant tale of young love. Willow and Oz were a wonderful couple and when they broke up, JW did NOT try to manipulate us into saying “Oh…look at the doomed, pretty pink couple. They were so pretty, but they were doomed. Doomed from the start. Doomed. Do you get it? DO YOU!” They simply made it about growing up and moving on (oh and changing orientation, but I digress).

I also agree with your point that SV is hindered by the fact that the protagonists are forced to work alone with no notable common goal (a god or an evil leather-pants sporting version of Buffy's ex-boyfriend). However, the writers could use said hindrance as a way to expand on the individual dignity of the characters. On the surface this isolation is explored through Lex, Clark, and to some degree Chloe. Part of the mythos of Buffy was to question what was the effect on the psyche when you are destined to fight alone. Obviously, however, these questions are not All.About.Lana, and therefore have no place in 95% of any episodes.

[QUOTE] As in, "Clark must defeat the FOTW while pining for Lana. Meanwhile, Lex is struggling with his father and fighting for his survival."

Tee.Hee.- sorry I still am not sure how to insert a quote yet!

“This week on Smallville Lana cries, Clark mopes about Lana crying, Lana cries some more. Meanwhile Lex is tortured and Chloe is threatened. But who cares, you caught the first part right? Riveting TV.”

Welcome, Ophelia03. Your posts have been great, and I agree with you.

One thing I cannot forgive this show for is the lack of character development. And everytime some poster at another board says, "Well, it's only the third season. They still have plenty of time..." or "This is Clark's story, so the other characters don't really need to be developed," I want to pull out my hair.

BtVS's first season was only 12 episodes long (because it was a mid-season replacement), and they somehow managed to develop Buffy, Xander, Willow, Angel, and Giles way more than SV has developed its characters in two and a half seasons. It's just ridiculous.

And what's to blame? We saw the cause in "Whisper". The PTB are willing to sacrifice other storylines, and the development of other characters, in order to push a 'ship that many viewers find boring and repetative. But they are going to convert every single fan into a Clana worshipper, or kill the show trying. And that's that.

It's really laughable. Lex is locked in a battle of wills with his father. Chloe is under the gun, literally, thanks to a bad decision, and now has to try to stand up to the likes of Lionel Luthor. Hell, Clark went blind, for goodness sakes. But we couldn't really get much of those storylines, because 20 or so minutes had to be devoted to telling us, three or four more times, that Lana and Clark really want to be together, but they can't because of the circumstances. Well, I already knew that. You didn't have to spend five minutes showing Lana walk regretfully down some stairs to drive the point home.

Bitterswete hit the nail on the head. It's what I've been saying about SV for ages: they are destroying a wealth of great storytelling. BtVs saw potential in the Buffy/Angel pairing and was able to run with it, making every episode with them in it heartwrenching. But at the same time, you had the rest of the Scoobies dealing with their issues.

Joss and Co. knew that the B/A 'ship couldn't last and therefore built a world around it so that the show could go on and still be interesting. SV doesn't understand that; Clana will fail. It's not any more tragic when you shove it down our throats. The tragedy is in the fall of Lex and in the rise of Clark, ho!yayness aside.

What would happen if you were to take Lana out of SV? Well, we have this thing with Chloe and the Luthors but that's about it. There's not enough rounded storytelling. This shouldn't be a one-dimensional universe and yet, TPTB push for it. The Clana is not strong enough or interesting enough to support that.

If Lana was taken out of SV, I would cheer and a national holiday should be declared.

I haven't seen much of Buffy, but what I did see was that the actors were all extremely competent and the characters were well-rounded. The actors were all able to make the dialogue sound a thousand times better than it may have been written. TPTB on SV continue to worship KK and Lana, so we are forced to endure a boring character played by an incompetent actress.

And Smallville would be cancelled…

Lets face it the executive producers don’t run the show, teenage girls do.

Well, then, teen-age girls are different now than when I was a teenager, because I never watched shows for the girls in them. I watched for the handsome, sexy guys, which is why I was a huge Star Trek and Starsky and Hutch fan.

It's not the teenage girls. It's the damn teenage boys and their penises. And the boys who aren't teenagers anymore but still act like they are.

If this is the case, it's all the more reason for the PTB to make Lana not suck so much. If she must be on the show, at least give her something interesting to do. I mean, she freaking killed a man. Where are the repercussions from that? It may as well have not even happened.

The whole doomed romance between Lana and Clark is so tired and redundant. There isn't even any tension in it. Like Cyb already mentioned upthread, Buffy had already fallen in love with Angel, killed him and seen him resurrected by now. The Clana is so staid and stale; any of their scenes in Whisper could've been taken out of the first two seasons.

It's like nothing ever moves forward on this show, except that Clark gains a few more powers (with the exception, perhaps, of the Chloe/Luthor subplot). Even Lex has (apparently) reverted to some version of his past-self. It's one step forward, two steps back with this show.

I hate to buy into the girls like romance and boys like action stereotype, but it definitely applies to Smallville (something the producers obviously know). Whether or not we like the characterization or plots, what they’ve been doing has worked for them so I can’t see any big changes (well, anything to do with Clark and Lana) in the near future. Don’t be surprised if Lana lives next door to Clark and Lois (I see a sitcom).

With that said, I’m not giving the writers enough credit. The Lex plotlines are always interesting (but I suppose it isn’t that hard to be more interesting than Clark and Lana).

True. Why try to improve something if you can get by with mediocrity? However, Smallville's ratings this season have been rather low compared to Seasons 1 & 2. AlMiles may well have to make some changes.

Then again, the writing on Buffy, IMO, was exceptional for its first few seasons and it still retained only a low, though consistant, number of viewers.



Oh, god, please no. Just, No.

I doubt it. The WB is probably well aware that Smallville has some tough competition this season (especially in the teen category, what with it being up against That 70’s show). Unless ratings take a big dive, I can’t see them asking for any radical changes.


Like I said, special effects and action (insert joke about gay sex here) will attract a lot of teenage boys.

Now and then there are moments of pure quality in terms of writing, which makes me wonder if the writers think you can’t be successful and smart on the WB. Of course most of the time it seems like they’re obsessed with KK…


UPN has already expressed interest in it.

Word. When Faith killed a man, it sent her into a spiral of self-destructive (and outwardly destructive) behavior. Lana, on the other hand, probably went shopping for a new headband.

Yeah
And we also saw the repercussions of homicide illustrated through Giles and Angel, YEARS after the fact for crying out loud! But with Lana, they filmed the moment like it was going to be a pivotal turning point for her character….and yet. NOTHING!!!

"Hereafter" again illustrates my frustration with the Target of the Week almost always being one of the gang. On Buffy, the Scoobies were occasionally the target of a demon, but usually if they were in danger it was something that happened in the course of them trying to save someone or something else. On SV, we have another random instance of Lana being the TOTW. It was kind of nice to bring in another victim in the form of Megan, but that wasn't good enough. No, they also had to throw Lana in there.

I didn't mind much that Chloe was the target in Delete last week because it happened in the course of her doing something. She wasn't just a random target. They tried to make Lana's danger less random with a lame, hastily explained backstory about how she let the coach's daughter leave a party, but really, that's hardly an explanation. It was just another excuse to heap tragedy and danger on Lana Lang.

They keep saying the town's population is 40,000+ but we keep getting the same few targets week after week.

You know, it's almost like their saying, "Clark won't really get interested in saving someone unless someone he knows--especially Lana--is also in danger." I know they don't mean to say that, but it almost looks like Megan being in danger wouldn't have been enough for Clark to ride to the rescue. Or, at least, not with the same urgency.

I will say that "Hereafter" did seem to take one of BtVS's lessons to heart. On BtVS, they seemed to believe in the "Give them a lot of different stuff, because they are bound to like something" approach. Even if the "find/stop/kill the monster" plot was lame beyond messure, you often didn't care because there was a lot of other stuff going on. I didn't care about the coach's storyline; they didn't really build it enough for me to feel sympathetic. But I did care about Lex's interest in Adam, Lex's scene with Chloe, Jordan (a very good FOTW for a change), what Chloe was doing, Adam's dream, Jordan's Adam-vision, etc. Of course, this method can get out of hand if not handled right. But "Hereafter" handled it pretty well.

The reason why this week's ep was even more Buffy-esque than usual is because it was co-written by Drew Z. Greenberg, a former BtVS writer.

I wish Smallville had a "patrol" concept like BtVS, or something like it. Too many of the plots involve Clark just being at the right place at the right time in order to witness some FOTW behavior. Chloe tries to expose them with her Wall of Weird, but her investigations usually only get brought up after we're introduced to the FOTW. I'd like to see them go looking for these freaks so the plots wouldn't rely so much on coincidence.

It’d make sense what with freaks appearing just about every week. But at the same time people rarely acknowledge how common the freaks are, so it doesn’t make sense for Clark to go patrolling (logically it would, but like you said Clark meeting the FOTW comes down to coincidence).

How Clark/Alicia and Adam/Lana were handled makes me wish the producers would take a lesson from the Oz/Willow storyline. If Oz/Willow had happened on Smallville, it would have been... well, it would have been Skinwalker.

We would have been introduced to him for the first time ever in the teaser, he would have fallen in love with the girl in the first act, turned out to be a werewolf in the third act, gotten killed or sent to the asylum in the fourth act, and then moony eyes would have been exchanged by the survivors.

I think the reason why I was never able to fully get behind the Clana, aside from an absence of chemistry, is that we didn't get to see Clark fall for Lana. We didn't take that trip with him. We were just expected to accept that he wanted her and that he had reason to. This is different from Oz/Willow and the beginning of Clark/Alicia and Lana/Adam. With these three pairings, we got to see the beginnings of the relationships and see for ourselves what the people saw in each other. But then they rushed right through Clark/Alicia and Lana/Adam. Despite the fact that the latter is getting 6 episodes, the story rushed away from potential romance almost right away and into tried and true baddie/victim territory.

Cyb, to expand on your excellent post, one of the major problems with the Lana/Adam relationship is that we the viewers who have a meta understanding of television know that Ian Somerholter (sp?) is a guest star, and his relationships with regular cast members are isolated to Lana and now, apparently, Lionel, so clearly he's temporary. Seth Green was a guest star for all of his S2 appearances on Buffy, but we saw Oz interacting with a bunch of other Sunnydale High students besides Willow (in fact, for the first few episodes he appeared in, Willow didn't even know that he'd noticed her). I loved Oz, and I also loved Oz and Willow, but Oz was in and of himself a defined character who fit into the Scooby group dynamic, and whether or not his relationship with Willow had ended up working out, his continued presence on the show would have been justified.

Not only do we not get to see a natural development of the Clana; we, the meta-aware viewers, are also well aware of the fact that a series regular having a romantic liaison with a guest star will end. It's just a question of how. Because of Lana's history of attracting Kryptonite freak stalkers every other week, we are engaging, while watching the Lana/Adam relationship develop, with a known pattern on the show: Lana falls for the wrong guy and it goes horribly wrong, then Clark rescues her from mortal danger and they make cow eyes at each other before reluctantly separating. Any character who is not Lana, Pete, Clark, the Kents, Lex, or Lionel is clearly temporary, with a very temporary impact. It exacerbates the already inherent repetitiveness of the Clana angst in particular.

Buffy did a much better job of utilizing non-regular castmembers to create memorable (and often recurring) characters that not only made the Buffyverse more concrete but also made the characters more real by giving them new and different people to interact with. Just in Season 3, Fab Filippo (Scott Hope), James Marsters (Spike), Harry Groener (the Mayor), Anya/Anyanka (Emma Caulfield), and Faith (Eliza Dushku) were all guest stars, and they had a major impact not only on individual episode plotlines but on the regular characters. Hell, two of those characters ended up being series regulars, and Faith ended up showing up in S7 as well as on Angel. Harmony (Mercedes McNab) was also featured in Season 3 and ended up being in multiple later episodes of both Buffy and AtS. Buffy didn't have the established pattern Smallville does of using guest stars as exclusively FoTWs that disappeared into the ether. If you saw a random character on Buffy, chances were he or she would show up again. Therefore, what happened between that character and the regulars on the show had true impact. On Smallville, "Asylum" was a great exception to that rule, but it was truly an exception. In other words, it's all about the Larry Principle writ large: context is important, and lack of context makes for formula and predictability.

that's probably due to the fact the series 'creators' were never really creators in the first place. The whole series as probably everyone knows, from the premise up was based on treatment from a proposed batman series. Apart from the pilot which started off almost all of the current story-lines (apart from the Chloe/Lionel storyline and I suppose the Lana/Adam thing ), the whole series has barely hung together at all. No major storyline from the pilot (Clark/Lex, Clark/Lana ..etc) as moved forward at all. I agree even this season a number of episodes or scenes could be from the second or third episode. The only resolved arcs seem to be ones created around mid-season for sweeps...(eg Lex's marriage).

While a buffy level of continunity seems to be beyond the producers. Even something a basic as the devices used on Jake 2.0, or DS9 and most other series would work better (i.e not to the same level as buffy). Use of the same extras in communal areas like the talon or the school (whether they speak or not, how many people work at the talon anyway? there's a different waitress every week), if something happens to a character, at least refer to it again in passing not just when they need to move the current episodes plot-forward. Velocity was the single worst offender for this, Pete had been street-racing for 'months' but there not even a mention in passing.

Sometimes, I think the show is written by a group of pubscent teenagers participating in a focus group.

Heh. It's been awhile since I was one, but it seems to me that pubescent teenagers would have more focus! Wouldn't pubescent girls tend to focus on romance? And wouldn't their male counterparts insist on more action?

Buffy, particularly in its early seasons, had the most gratifyingly angsty romance, spun out over whole seasons with tidbits in nearly every episode; and Buffy never failed to deliver a good fight scene. They may have used stunt doubles, but they rarely resorted to CGI (except in dusting the vamps).

Whereas Smallville gives us positively Victorian longing glances, where the few fulfilled kisses are pretty much passion-free (let's not even mention the obsessus interruptus from last week--except that it was a rare instance of levity in a series amazingly devoid of humor); and the fights are lopsided affairs in which super-Clark easily flings guys 30 feet, or krypto-Clark is completely powerless.

In short, I kinda think the show would be better in the hands of pubescent teens.

This has always been why Supes wasn't my favorite super hero. Really, he's so powerful, there's nothing much that can challenge him. And, when there is, it's gotta be something larger than life and over the top.

Sadly, we just aren't going to get those long (or even short), intricately choreographed fights on SV that we got on BtVS. Not with Clark, anyway. Which is why so many people loved Chloe vs. Lana.

You are absolutely right popshopper, and the worst thing is that 3 years down the track, trials and tribulations that engendered our sympathy in the beginning, now make us either roll our eyes with boredom or worse, make us actively dislike the character, because their many experiences appear to have taught them nothing.

Back in the first few episodes I didn't hate Lana at all. She was very definitely presented as a kind of two dimensional, young man's fantasy character, and she worked best that way. It was okay for her to appear practically perfect because we weren't asked to believe she was really like that. I thought the scene with her and Clark screaming in the middle of the football field was kinda cute, and I thought she was adorable when munching on popcorn in Clark's makeshift birthday drive-in. But the only dimensions they've given her are artificial angst laid over her shallow characterisation -- and now she's just shallow and whiny. Ugh!

Back in first season I was very sympathetic to Clark's alienation, his confusion about doing the right thing, his fear of being exposed, his fear of telling the truth, his trepidation and withdrawn passivity. But now, 3 seasons down the track I think most of his friends appear to be pretty decent people and Clark is a selfish, self-obsessed idiot who fails to learn from his own mistakes and is as unforgiving and arrogant as his father. For three years his parents have stayed in their Twilight Zone coccoon of selfish paranoia, failing to see past their own fears and errors in judgement. They won't live forever and yet they've made no provision to allow Clark to feel he can be close to anyone but them. In doing so they have pretty much condemned Clark to a life of misery.

Chloe has achieved some growth and maturity, I think, but Lex is the only character who really seems to be reacting to and learning from his life experiences -- sadly they've all been negative. But most of this growth (or guarded withdrawal) is imparted through the way MR delivers his lines each week and is not necessarily contained in the script as written.

It's no wonder that I am really tired of the Kents and their paranoia and Clark and Lana and their moony, depressing, endless treading-water romance, and really only have waning interest in Lex and Chloe.

leaping lucas, as always, I find myself allocating a majority of my "Words" to your posts.



I think this is exactly why the PTB need to stop focusing on the FoTW storylines and move ahead with everything else: the Luthor plots, Clark's coming of age/maturation, the Rift (although, I could do without ever having this come to pass), etc.

IMO, the story lies in Clark's evolution into Superman and his interactions with the people who influence him in this journey. So far as I can tell, the only growth Clark's shown from Season 1 to Season 3 is that he now looks 25 instead of 22.

He's had some growth. He realizes he can put people in danger and he's begun to distance himself more from people. And he has a worse haircut.

But back to Buffy and Smallville.

At the end of both shows' 2nd season, the heros left their hometowns for the big city. Buffy went to LA and became Anne, Clark went to Metropolis and became Kal. To this day, I really hate how Clark's "exile" was handled. He destroyed his ship because his biodad was going to make him leave Blahna behind. They built up to it very quickly. There was a hint in Rosetta that Jor-El was a dominating figure, and then in Calling, Clark started getting the message to leave, then he left in Exile. Compare this with the huge arc of Buffy falling in love with Angel, him losing his soul as a direct result of love and happiness, their fighting each other, and then her having to kill him to save the world, just when she'd gotten him back.

I wish they'd let Clark run away from home without Red K, even though they wouldn't have been able to make him as dark as they did, because he has to still be able to grow up to be Superman. By using Red K, they were saying "oh well he was high, it wasn't really him" so they don't have to deal with any real consequences. There have been some consequences, but not many. They got to explore his darker side without having it stick, like exploring Lana's inner tramp in Nicodemus, and having her revert to her virginal sainthood afterward.

Not ratting on teenage girls, but the more I think about it, the more it seems Smallville is heading down the itchy and scratchy path.

I really liked Buffy's return after she ran away. There were definate consequences. First, her friends were mad with her, and kind of distant. And it was several episodes before her mom was able to get her back into school.

Most interesting was that Buffy seemed the most upset that everyone had moved on without her. They weren't sitting by the phone ringing there hands and waiting for her to call. Yeah, they were worried about her, but everyone kept living their lives...and doing her job by keeping up patrols. In fact, everyone seemed to be doing so well without her (and she wasn't blind to their resentment) that she almost ran away again, which lead to a huge blow up between her, her mom, and her friends, in the middle of her Welcome Home Party.

And I loved it that Cordelia, of all people, tried to defend her...as only Cordy could.



I think Clark got off pretty easy after his trip to Metropolis. Everyone forgave him pretty easy. Although it looks like, because of Jonathan's deal with Jor-El, he might be facing some consequences. Still, there was something very real and satisfying about watching all of Buffy's friends yell at her for what she put them through, because I would've reacted the same way in a similar situation.

Also, on BtVS, Jonathan was a background character in that party scene, which took place in season 3. Later, in season 4, he had his own episode. (He altered reality, so that he became a rich, successful hero type, worshipped and admired by all.) Then, in season 6, he returned as a villain who played a major part in the season arc. And he returned again in season 7.

With SV, all we can hope for is that maybe Alicia will come back some time down the road.

One thing I've been wondering ever since Exile is what the hell happened with the freaks in Smallville while Clark was away. Lana's attacked by freaks every other week. They can't tell me that she went three or four months without a single attack while Clark was away. Did all the freaks and villains go on vacation too? The baddies in Sunnydale didn't take a break just because Buffy did.

"Obsession", and the discussion here about how none of the characters really seem to have developed over the past few years, made me think about the way Smallville and Buffy handle sex, which is, after all, a big rite of passage for people of the characters' age.

On Buffy, Buffy, Xander, and Willow all eventually have sex. Buffy ends up having sex for the first time with a true love, and it ends badly--really badly. Willow ends up having sex with Oz while under pressure from a dangerous situation, but it's beautiful. Xander ends up having a somewhat random and out-of-control encounter with Faith. All of these first sexual experiences happen within the first three seasons of the show, while the characters are in high school. In each case, a flirtation or relationship ends up getting consumated physically. Yet, over the course of the series, we saw that one doesn't always remain with the person one first has sex with, for many complicated reasons. To me, that echoes real life, and is one of the many ways we saw the characters grow and change over the years.

On Smallville, Clark's development is held hostage by the Clana. So is Lana's, but she's such a poorly defined and irksome character that it's hard for me to care. The mandatory 15 minutes per episode where Clark and Lana must stare longingly at each other, possibly while engaging in awkward dialogue, means that neither character will ever be allowed to develop meaningful romantic feelings towards anyone else. For either character to have sex with someone else would be a betrayal of the Clana, and the Clana can't really happen. The result is stunted growth, and a distinct lack of nookie. Clark actually had a shot at another relationship--but she turned out to be a FoTW. Lana did too--but he turned out to be a mini-arc villain. It's not like sex is everything, but to me it's a good example of how the characters are really trapped in place on this show.

Word, FriscoChick. I would have had more patience with the Clana if (aside not doing spine rippage & soldier slaughter) it led to something and wasn't this stupid "will they or won't they" dance, full of contrivance and mooning. They should just kill the Clana if they're not going to have it GO somewhere. Neither of them really learn anything because they're in a holding pattern. I really don't want to see 3 more years of the same "secrets and lies" BS.

The problem with M&G is that they're risk-averse. People loved Buffy and Angel but they continued watching the show even though they split up. I like Xander & Willow as a pairing, felt sad it never had a real go but I kept on watching because I liked the show and also enjoyed Willow & Oz and the romantic fumblings of Xander. If people are watching SV because they're strictly Clana4ever then M&G have to know they're the people they're going to lose no matter what and concentrate on the people who came to watch SV, not Clanaville.

One more thing to consider is Clark's super-strength; that is, if he has sex with Lana (or Chloe), he might kill them in the process. On the other hand, that might not be such a bad idea; it would clear the field for Lex!

BTW, on "BTVS", the women almost always made the first move (SEE: Willow/Oz, Xander/Faith, Xander/Anya). Not much hope of that happening here.

Biggest potential drawback to Clana sex: lead condoms.

Agree with most of the sentiments here, especially the notion that the producers are timid, but unlike Buffy, they are dealing with characters whose futures (kinda) are known and locked in. The Enterprise folk, for some, are also stumbling in trying to get from Prequel Point A to Known Trek and beyond Points B, C, D.

Also agree big time that the Alicia character could have been handled very elegantly without making her a crazed baddie. Oh, the possibilities!

Oh, so many jokes...

On the other hand, Clark's been shown hugging Bo and Martha before without crushing their ribs. Buffy, on the other hand, gave Giles bruises on a regular basis during overly enthusiastic embraces. Because Buffy was a girl with unusual strength who occasionally forgot, whereas Clark is...uh...I guess it has never really been dilineated on the show why he has so much control over his strength; perhaps because he grew up with it, rather than having it thrust upon him. Buffy's powers weren't always treated consistently, but to some extent I think the way she dealt with them in her day-to-day interactions was much more "realistic" (if I can use that term) than the way Clark deals with his powers.

A high pressure water jet can cut though solid steel.
There's a similar way Clark might cause injury to a mate, if he "love's" to powerfully!

Hehehe.

Sorry.

I think we can assume that Clark doesn't ejaculate with significant force, or there'd be more holes in the barn and bedroom walls. The tile in the bathroom would be shot to hell too. And poor Lex would be doing all his scenes from a hospital bed.

I kind of wish they'd show Clark doing more training (not with his super!penis, just regular training like Buffy). He's super powered but that doesn't mean he can't improve his use of the powers. Plus it'd give us an excuse to see him in itty bitty workout wear.

This particular topic was brought up many years ago (1) by another author (whose name escapes me at the moment), who was speculating on Superman/Lois Lane sex, and how he was able to consummate the sexual act without killing her. I know I read it in a book somewhere, but I can't remember the author or the title!

(1) Pre-"Superman IV".

You're thinking of Larry Niven, who wrote an article called Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex. Those of us who like CLex fanfiction pretty much ignore Mr. Niven.
(:-)

That article made me laugh and laugh...



Resurrection made me wonder about this. Has he been practicing and they just haven't been showing us? How the hell did he get so fast?

stoutheartedmin, that's it! I can't believe you found it.



Um...running after his own sperm, perchance? (sorry, I couldn't resist...)

Those of us who would like poor Clark to not die a virgin pretty much ignore Mr. Niven. And as there's been no indication in the DC-verse of "several thousand blessed events," I'd guess DC does too. Seriously, the man can use heat vision, run at supersonic speeds, and fly and people aren't willing to use their suspension of disbelief on sex? Weird.

Topic? Uh, I'd like to see some training scenes too. Extra bonus points for workout gear.

ETA: Something that fit as tightly as Lana's workout pants when she was rehabbing would be nice.

I was thinking, just now, that Clark doesn't really have a Giles figure. That is, I think Jonathan's supposed to be a Giles figure, but he sucks at it. All he offers is parental reassurance and sanctimonious platitudes, whereas Giles is a good source of actual information. Actually, I think Lex is a better Giles figure: Clark always runs to Lex, just as Buffy always runs to Giles.

Either no way, there's no one nurturing his powers, helping him hone them. Jonathan tries, at their onset, but as is noted above, we never see any practicing or training.

On Buffy, the romantic pairings were generally the coming together of two distinctly defined characters who had their own places on the show. Oz was introduced as a love interest for Willow, but he was established first; the first few episodes in which he appeared, when Willow was totally oblivious to his interest in her, he was shown interacting with the other denizens of Sunnydale. Even after he and Willow hooked up, he had his own werewolf story. Angel was established not only as a love interest for Buffy but as an interesting character in his own right: a vampire with a soul and a unique journey. Therefore, if the relationship went south, the character still had emotional resonance and an independent justification for being on the show.

On Smallville, aside from the Clana, there are no romantic pairings between established characters (discounting the Clex, which is obviously subtextual). All of the romantic pairings are between cast regulars and guest actors and are therefore inherently temporary. Any possible love interest for any of the cast regulars is coded disposable, since there is no flexibility about the show's cast. I actually thought Adam's introduction onto the show was potentially interesting, but since he's been reduced to another evil Lana stalker, that potential has flown out of the window. Once again, there's no sense that any tertiary characters you meet on the show will have impact later.

Hence the Lana Dilemma. The only relevance she seems to have to SV is her relationship with Clark. But the producers decided they can't get together. (They are convinced that, once that happens, veiwers would lose interest in the couple, and in the show itself...and I strongly disagree with the latter.) But, in order to keep Lana involved, they must keep her connected to Clark somehow. So we get scene after endless scene of them having talks that seem to be about one thing, but are really about "them". We get talks at the end of countless episodes where, once again, they hash over why they can't be together, and one or the other walks away, and the cameras linger on the sad looks on both of their faces.

The thing is, they've tried to make Lana's character relevant and interesting beyond Clark. I'll give them credit for that. But either they drop it on us too fast for it to be believable (Lana Fu), or they sabotage it themselves before it can really get interesting (Adam being a perfect example).

The problem I think is that they're trying to make a very NON-epic character epic and it just won't work. She should've been and remained the icon of normalness that finds that she's never going to really be part of the epic but finds out that being normal ain't so bad. By trying to make her more than what she should be, they unbalanced the series to the point that people mock it for its emphasis on what should be and should have remained a tertiary character. Just because the mailman delivers the CIA agent Sydney Bristow a box doesn't make the mailman exciting. And that's what Lana is, an ordinary/boring character surrounded by much more interesting people & things. Just because she serves coffee to Lex and Clark doesn't make her exciting. I don't mind her being boring as long as she doesn't take up so much time on the show.

I think the problem is that they think that if they take care of a problem in one episode, it doesn't have to be dealt with in another and the thing is that it has to be in every single episode. Since they introduced Lana-fu, she has to be able to use it in every single episode since the episode it's introduced. You can't do the clap-on, clap-off crap they've been doing where she can kill someone with a single kick in one episode but then stare at the pretty needle/knife/fist as it comes to her in another episode. It just emphasizes how artificial it is and makes things worse. As for the Adam arc, they just had Adam drop a few choice words on her but then once he said them, they made him freaky so in terms of character development, he'll have no impact.