Wow! There's a box brethren out there!

I love a good box. When Endeavour mentioned Stacy's peeve about people keeping empty boxes, she called my name. I was so relieved not to be alone in my box love. I cannot throw out a good box. Anyone have an idea why this is? Anyone? Any psychology majors out there?

Now, the confession. The thing is that this summer when I cleaned out the garage, I had many good empty boxes taking up valuable space. So, I got the brilliant idea of storing some stuff outside on the side of the house in containers from Target. Stuff I wouldn't grieve over if it were ever stolen or waterlogged. So, I stored empty boxes (sorted by size) into 3 big storage containers. Storage for storage? How embarassing.

BTW, everything is still dry despite snowfall.

Yay! Tomorrow is the New Year's Day marathon of Clean Sweep! I was hoping against hope that they would be new shows, but heck I'll take anything. It gets me motivated.

Wishing you all an uncluttered New Year!

I can hear Peter now "what are you keeping empty boxes for? Boxes are free at the grocery store. We can repurpose these boxes into trash bins and carry the rest of your clutter to the curb".

Its funny to hear all the rationalizations for keeping boxes. It sounds just like me rationalizing why I need to keep the big stack of dirty, paint stained towels. "You see Peter, when I move I can use these to wrap my paintings. So I dont have to buy bubble wrap". I have moved about ten times in the past five years so I think its perfectly reasonable.

That's one thing I really love about ordering from Amazon--their boxes are so great.

Another plus about this program over Trading Spaces is that the rooms are normal to small sized. No McMansions here!

[Crying big HO crocodile tears] Wah! But they're not free boxes! They're 5' tall, expensive U-Haul wardrobe boxes! And china boxes with padded inserts! Wah!

Okay, the first two eps in today's marathon (you know, the marathon that was advertised as having all new eps) are NOT NEW. Sheesh. TiVo warned me they wouldn't be, but I was hoping it was lying. Evidently when TLC's promo department claimed the eps were all new, they meant "new to the people who haven't seen them before."

D'oh!

Another box keeper here! Actually, a lot of stuff still requires that you use the original packing if you're returning something - for example, our leased satellite equipment. I've tried to train myself to at least break down the boxes and throw the foam inserts into trashbags for storage. That way they take up less room.

And around here, boxes aren't free at the grocery store - they're cut up in the store, and flattened and baled for recycling. The only free boxes are from liquor stores: great for packing and storing glassware, not so great for everything else.

ITA with keeping those wardrobe boxes - those puppies are EXPENSIVE!

Yeah, it's disappointing that there are no new eps being shown during the marathon. Oh well, off to PBS for the Mystery! marathon.

Since I'm visiting relatives and knew I wouldn't get to see much of this marathon, I'm actually glad to hear this. :-) I'm not surprised, though, not after I thought about the ad: "New Year, New Rooms", I think was what they said. I.e., the rooms are new to the HOs, but not to the viewers (unless indeed we haven't seen the eps before).

Happy to be visiting my Mom-In-Law, who has a nice, modest, neat, clean, wonderfully restful house. Inspirational!

Wow!! Watching this show makes me feel at home!! Rooms that are packed to the rafters with boxes of useless junk!!
I wish I could talk my family into watching this show and get the hint.
But with them, any mention of wanting to de-clutter the house is met with outright hostility!!
"We can't get rid of THAT, it is worth money!!"--if I had a nickel for everytime I heard that, I could buy a new house and pay for it in cash!!

The only thing that occurred to me after watching a bit of the marathon yesterday was that we haven't seen designer Valerie Bickford in a while. I wonder if she's still around?

I saw a few episodes yesterday. I hadn't seen this show before. I liked the show and would watch it again but I think the show spends wayyyyyyyy too much time on the "keep/sell/trash" part of the show and not enough on what the designers are actually doing. One of the episodes I saw was the woman from England who wanted to keep her tuba. I felt bad for her husband bc he seemed to be making all of the sacrifices so part of me was thinking, "would it kill her to give up something?"

The issue with the French horn lady was that most of the stuff in the rooms wasn't hers. Ergo, not a lot for her to give up.

I'd like to see a little bit more content on the hows of organization myself. I will say though that the show has prompted me to go through and weed a lot of my belongings.

This is the one show I think it would be fun to be on. Not that they've shown any indication of leaving the L.A. area, but I was idly plotting in my head, "Next time my HO's association is having a group yard sale, I'll ask everyone to store their crap in my house first, then take everything out of my cupboards and heap it on the bed..."

Then it would amuse me, during the initial 24-minute sort, to cheerfully and immediately dump all my neighbors' stuff into the "sell" pile.

As another bonus, if they were here, I could tell Stacy in person to stop wearing those freakin' camouflage pants already. I'd buy her a top with sleeves, too.

I don't think they spend too much time on the keep/sell/trash part. It's always the same; the HO's put waaayy too much crap into the keep pile, so they have to weed it out twice. I think if someone was using this show as a guide to declutter their own house, this would be a valuable part of the process.

As for how to organize what's left? They don't get into the nitty-gritty of "CD's go into this box" and "lotions go into that basket", but they often pan over the closets or shelves and mention that everything has its place. You can see the labels for the different stuff. I thought that most people understood that when you organize stuff, it means sorting it out by type and putting it into labelled containers.

The biggest problem these HO's have is that they seem to be compulsive shoppers/collectors. They always have massive numbers of CD's or videos or beanie babies or whatever. It's obscene. And it's not like a music lover who has a big CD collection because that type of person generally takes pride in her music and displays/organizes it carefully.

They also seem to place too much sentimental value on too many things. Keeping a couple art pieces from your child's schoolyear? Cute. Keeping the entire collection? Obnoxious.

I know they've been in Arizona. Phoenix I think. I wish I could remember the episode. I think there were two of them. One, they complained about the heat and in another, I could see saguaros in the background.

The official show page says you can only apply if you live in So. Cal. I thought the cactus and complaining about the heat show was set somewhere like Palmdale or Palm Springs, but that was just my assumption.

Was this a new episode? It was interesting. Especially since the couple seemed really ready to let go of almost everything. I loved Valerie's redesign of the home office. The living room? Not so much. But man, this show could really teach the current crew at Trading Spaces a thing or two...

Nope, that was a repeat. It was a good episode though. The office redesign was pretty interesting. It's rare you get someone on the show who wants a room for one purpose. It's always "this is our guestroom/playroom" or "office/guestroom." That has to hamper the designers somewhat.

This is absolutely my new favorite show. I've been sick for 2 damn weeks, which threw a HUGE wrench into all my organizing plans for the long holiday weekends, but being able to watch the marathon at least allowed me to load up on ideas.

I did manage to buy 23 of those big plasic bins that are on sale at Home depot right now for $2.77 (7 of them have already been used for Christmas stuff), as well as some under-the-bed bins to hold gift wrap that I have already put to work. When I have my strength back, lookout, because everything that isn't absolutely necessary out in the open is going into a bin. I have 3 tubs full of yard sale items already, that I had previously passed over because I had to keep them. Several hours of this show makes me want to give away or sell anything and everything that doesn't get used or admired daily.

One episode featured a guy who had over a thousand golf balls in the house, and 5 or 6 golf bags in the bedroom. The designer used golf balls in a wall design in the front room, and it was sort of clever, but I didn't love it. In the same room (I'm not sure what to call the room, really - it was the area you see right when you walk in the front door) there was a new storage cabinet for the kids' toys that had been painted in chalkboard paint. They were so proud of that, because the kids could draw or write all over the cabinet, and then "simply erase it off!" Yes, it can be erased, but where does all that chalk dust go? Into the air and flooring. Also, it was one of the first things people would see upon entering, so how nice would it look sitting there all covered in chalk drawings? Really, I think this is one of the only ideas on this show that I haven't liked.

I think that these rooms are typically much more aesthetically pleasing than most of the Trading Spaces rooms, and they are so much more functional. The entire crew does a great job (I think Eric is fantastic), and no one really annoys me - except the occasional H.O. It's kind of nice to just know that they are going to be elated at the reveal, instead of being led to wonder if they are going to throw a hissyfit.

Nope, that was a repeat. It was a good episode though. The office redesign was pretty interesting. It's rare you get someone on the show who wants a room for one purpose. It's always "this is our guestroom/playroom" or "office/guestroom." That has to hamper the designers somewhat.

I don't see this as hampering -- it's real life!

Most of us do not live in 5,000 sq ft homes where there's the living room, the media room, the family room, the office, the guest quarters, all with built-in storage out of sight. We have multipurpose spaces (in my apartment it's a living/media/dining nook, and guest room/office/craft storage) with minimally constructed closets that usually don't maximize the storage and the challenge is to zone the room (to use Julia Morgenstern's helpful term) for the various uses well.

They can't get away with the b*ll that Hildabeest on TS inflicts with beeeeyoootiful sitting areas where no one can see the TV and there's no storage at all for any of the possessions that were in the room at the beginning of the show.

Being in the midwest, I used to worry about the HO's stuff getting blown away/rained on/snowed on, etc, but then I read the TLC sight and found out that they do all of this in S. CA so its usually just sunny.



I think they could always do more tips--they usually cover the "get new books, toss/donate/give to friend old books" motif. And they supply the HOs with picture boxes--and sometimes tell them to sort pre-kids/post kids, but it might be handy to suggest even more specific things. I have a picture box that I just keep cramming more folders of pictures in. I've only warily looked at the cardboard dividers that came with it.

For instance, they usually do a filing system for the HOs, but don't really explain or drill it in. For me, I have a box to file stuff with folders, but they're not overly well or accurratley labeled so I usually "file" by stacking stuff on top of the box and then have a marathon filing session a couple times a year and start the cycle over again. After my latest round, I tried to label everything with bigger, useful-to-me labels (I have a Veterinarian folder--sigh, cat bills--a medical folder, 401K, blah blah blah) so I wouldn't feel like I didn't know where to file my own stuff. It worked so far--I effectively filed one thing in the right spot.

I think part of the reason they don't go into too much detail about filing systems is that for it to work, it would have to be specific to the particular homeowner's needs. What's meaningful for one person wouldn't make any sense for someone else. I think alot of it would come down to sorting into major categories and alphabetizing. However, even if it's specific to one person, the more they explain, the more ideas people will get for their own stuff.

Word to that. When I give the 20 second tour of my apartment, the most exciting room is the "dining room" aka the dining room/library/aboretum/music room/aquarium as it contains a small table, piano, bookshelves, plants, and a fish tank.

I'm generally not to be that crazy about the designs on this show from an aesthetic perspective, but very impressed from an organizational perspective. Surely there's a happy medium between this and Trading Spaces, where you can have a design that's creative and bold while still having places to put everything. I haven't been watching all that long, but the only episode so far where I actually liked a design idea was the one that had a fabric tent-effect on the ceiling.

I have to say, though, that I'm super-impressed by the Australian guy's (Peter Walsh, just looked it up) ability to get people to give up things to which they attach enormous emotional value. In one case, a woman was very attached to a broken La-Z-Boy chair in which she had convalesced from surgery, and Peter pointed out that her real support in life was not the chair, but her husband. I honestly thought he made that couple fall in love all over again. And more recently, a woman was having trouble letting go of a crib, and was reluctantly convinced to give it to a neighbor who was going to place it with someone who desperately needed it. Peter suggested that the neighbor get a photo of the crib with the new baby and give it to the former owner, and that totally lightened her up - like she could suddenly see the joy of passing on something she loved to someone else who would love it, as long as she could attach a face to that someone else. I don't find I get the same insights from the other organizer, so I tend not to watch the whole show if she's on.

Now that you mention it, I agree that Shelley isn't as tactful and smooth in her approach to get rid of things. She does a lot of shaking her head in disbelief about the things people hold on to, and it comes off as a little judgemental sometimes. I would much rather have Peter put his arm around me and gently explain why I need to let go of my wooden frog puppet, than have Shelley cock her head and ask me why in the world I have a wooden frog puppet. Plus, if I really wanted to keep it, she would make me play some game to get it, like, balancing the frog on my nose for 5 minutes or it's gone. Peter could make me feel good about selling it at the yard sale for a quarter. I do like Shelley, but I'd prefer to deal with Peter if it were my stuff.

There's Mission: Organization on HGTV. I've only seen it a few times, but the designed rooms were much nicer when finished. Mission: Organization doesn't have the time and budget constraints that CS has, so that probably has a lot to do with it. I think CS does ok considering the time limit and budget.

Either way, Peter or Shelley, it's kind of a punitive show, isn't it? If the homes weren't out of control the HOs wouldn't have to make these tough choices. I'm thinking specifically about the guy whose grandma left him some old vinyl LPs. Now, it takes very little space to store them and in a more organized home you wouldn't reasonably coerce someone to toss something so precious. But I guess the organizers feel the HOs have gone to such a psychological extreme with their clutter that they have to take extreme measures. I think Peter understands the strategy better.

In other news, the guy they hired to do the theme music must be shot. It sounds like something some junior high school kid did on his computer.

I don't understand the homeowners that come on this show, then balk and whine at having to get rid of any of their stuff. Every time they start throwing a fit and playing these little games about not wanting to sell something, I find myself screaming at the TV "Then why did you come on this show?" Did they think that all the things at the yard sale would be their spouse's, that their things would be exempt? Perhaps if they did this on their own, the organizers wouldn't have to come in and be such hard-asses about everything.

Well, this is the reality show conundrum. Me, I don't expect them to suspend their natural reactions just because they signed on to the show. (Likewise, on Survivor I don't expect people to have to respond philosophically to being lied to just because of the nature of the game.) Of course, they can't do anything about having their stuff otherwise carted off to charity, but as discussed, it is more valuable to the audience having a Peter reason them through the process of discarding. I agree, though, it is frustrating to the point of food loss-and-TV screen clean-up to watch some of these folks' behavior.

Well, remember it's always 2 people. I imagine many a couple thinks the clutter is the other person's fault. Or that miracles can be accomplished by organization (which to a small part is true). Or that they don't realize just how much stuff they've got.

luciaphile, I think you're right. I think sometimes people who have never been organized think it's some kind of magic. It took me years to convince my husband that he simply had too many books and that buying more books on organization was not going to help on its own. (I dunno, it's like he thought he could wave a book on organization at the other books, and they'd understand the error of their ways and straighten themselves out. Or something.)

I think CS should do a random "special episode" where the people get to keep only what they can fit in their car. And they won't know this until the crew shows up, like the TS $100K ep.

Why the 50% rule is just wrong.....

When my wife and I first met, we tried to adjust our love for books from two spaces to one.

We got rid of about half of our books. We had thousands between us...literally...and we managed to fit them into a single apartment..but we we regretted the move from the start. For ages...years..almost a decade now, we have stalked the lost titles...Ebay ...used book sales...book stores...and we shouldn't have given up what we loved...and the money we spent to replace what we already had, taught me a lesson. Next time, we will build more book shelves, because...if you love something and you lose it, you will replace it.. No organizer can make me feel bad for doing that no matter how hard they try.

lostinthezone, in a way, I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Your books are a specific, focused collection. Many people have collections of very specific items.
But the people on this show tend to be hoarders, packrats, accumulators of all manner of things. Some of it may be treasure, but mostly, it's trash. Its hardly in the same category as having a large collection of books. You build extra shelves, perhaps scale back on other pieces of furniture to accomodate the shelves, and you're set. If everything else in your home is organized and under control, then you're hardly in the same boat as the couples on this show.

I hadn't thought about the why of it before, but you're right, people probably figure their spouses' crap will be what goes and their treasures will stay. Heh. Marriage.

At the beginning, I think maybe most couples hadn't seen the show before so they didn't know exactly what they were in for.

I agree that Peter takes a more psychological approach than Shelli, but it's that biddy on Life Laundry who's just plain mean

Ugh, she is awful! I caught an episode at my grandparents' house one day, as I don't get BBC America. She made this woman throw her child's ID bracelet that he had at the hospital when he was born. Granted, this woman's house was filled to the ceiling with stuff, but something like that can easily be tucked in a jewelry box. Plus, with the mountains of things this woman had, getting rid of something that tiny made a non-existent dent.

This is the funniest thing I've read on TWoP in ages. Good one!

Watching CS has helped me deal with my disorganized husband. During a clear-out he gets stuck on item one (and every item thereafter): leafing through it if it's a book or magazine, or turning it over and over in his hand if it's anything else, unable to decide if he should keep or toss it. I make him use the CS approach of sorting everything quickly into keep-sell-trash piles, then going over the keep pile with him. It's really worked for him. In the past, he avoided cleaning anything out because he'd get bogged down, and depressed, so quickly.

I think CS has developed a very effective technique: doing a fast initial sort gets one in the mood for a clear-out, so the final sort moves along more smoothly.

ITA, DeepRed. Sometimes the hardest part of getting organized is simply getting started and this technique lets you get started very quickly.

I think the fast-sort technique was developed as therapy for obsessive-compulsive hoarders, the kind who can't throw away the hairball from the bathtub drain. I remember seeing a program about OCD years ago, and a couple of patients who had the hoarding symptom were shown how to focus on a small area, and sort into "toss, maybe, keep" boxes, and then sort the "maybe" box into toss or keep. (No "sell" box because who would buy a hairball?) With practice, it was pretty effective.

I've only seen part of one episode of Life Laundry, where they had a trash compactor and were chucking stuff into it with great conviction and watching it get destroyed. It struck me that they were tossing stuff that would have been useful to other people and should maybe have gone to a charity instead. I understand the glee in getting rid of something that's been an albatross, but it seemed wasteful.

I like to let The New Yorker speak for me. Okay, I am posting this before reading it, but I'm sure it's good.

Thanks for the link, Ingres. My oh my! 180 tons of crap in that mansion?!

And I love the final quote: "We give them some serious mental tools to use so that they don’t repopulate their place with a bunch of shit." Don't mince your words there, bud.

I hope this isn't to OT -- this made me think of my father's motto: "When in doubt, throw it out."

Actually, 2000 books in a two bed room apartment kinda looks like the rooms in some of these shows....unless you have floor to ceiling book shelves...

I guess much of the debate is how well you organize your stuff...but much like the New York Times living with collections solution...more of the time should be spent Building "rooms" for each discreet collection and less with getting rid of stuff just beacuse the 'designer' can't deal with it...

the number of times they got of things that were needed...

the collectors who acquired as many Disney things as possible...(thanks to Esiner and CO..those aren't cheap to replace and she will...)

the golfers 3,000 balls..alot...but in ten years he will have 3,000 again...and he will buy more than the 30 they left him next week...I get the sense he hacked alot...

and the six coolers the caterers weeded down to two...(ok so in there business they may not use them that often...but for the grateful guests who don't get tomaine because they had cold food...they needed to find a place to keep them...)

Isn't that also the Hawkeye Pierce surgeon's credo?

I agree that Peter is very good at getting the people to give up stuff when the memories alone will suffice, but the father of six shouldn't have had to sell the painting his dead mother made for him. Space should have been made to hang it or store it for one of the children as a keepsake.

P.S. Those galvanized cans filled with crayons with the word "ART" stenciled on looked like ass.

I can...would have looked Peter in the Eye and said memories fade when he tried that line on me....No way I would have given up the painting....

Objects have a permanence that memories don't...

(and when the assertiveness training wears off all thats left is the ass.....)

(but I would never go on a show like this......)

Regarding the New Yorker article: I didn't know they could say shit now, either. I may have to start reading it again.

I feel for you, and I totally hear you - those were my plans as well. The success of my whole 2004 hinged on my spending the Christmas and New Year's long weekend breaks purging and organizing. :) I spent NY's day happily tossing tons of paper (and, of course, putting aside the stuff for the shredder), emptying closets and drawers, giving away what I could, and sitting out what I couldn't (and things were scooped up within the hour), with the Clean Sweep marathon playing all day. I had their credo down pat in my head "If I haven't used it or stored it properly, I'm just hanging on. Give it to someone who can use it now!"

I even made my (poor) son justify why he was keeping tons of paper, future packrat that he is: "Have you used this in the past 6 months? If it's so important, why was it buried under a bunch of junk? Is this information you can easily get again? If so, you don't need to keep it!"

I love this show for all the reasons I loved Trading Spaces, and even more because the designs are nearly always wonderful, and the homeowners are nearly always thrilled with the change. Plus it totally appeals to my organizational fetish and belief that if only I had more bins/sorting containers/baskets/built-in shelving/vertical storage/repurposed furniture, my life would be complete.

Thank god, I'm not the only one. I share your belief that all that stands between me and perfect happiness is the right storage system and supplies. I love, love, LOVE sorting/organizing, and all the accessories - I wish the designers would focus more on clever storage solutions, although I totally understand that the homeowners desperately need help paring down their stuff before even attempting to organize it. And I do get a certain horrified pleasure seeing the "before" shots of the rooms (horror that anyone could let their house get to that point, pleasure that it's not me, and relief that they are getting some help), so I usually enjoy the show even when the focus is on sorting/tossing.

There was still plenty of wall space to hang the picture. (I don't care if it doesn't go with the designer's scheme. Some things are more important than color coordination.) At least Peter suggested that it stay in the family, although it sounded like the sister-in-law put the kibosh on that option.

I'd have to save my assertiveness for Stacy and her stupid yard sale competition. I don't need the money, I'd be perfectly happy if everything went to charity (I like charity), and I don't want to be nagging random passersby for money. We can have a yard sale and people can buy what they want, but no phony competition.

I don't get the yard sale competition either. Isn't it the HO's best interest to sell as much as they can? Why do they need a competition? I really hate that part of the show, the whole idea of it especially having to give up one more item after having purged so much already.